It's all about the sound.
July 23, 2001 8:09 AM Subscribe
It's all about the sound. While most bands hate to be pigeonholed, one of the styles of music which I've lately gotten into is called "post rock." I can't get enough of bands like Stereolab, Yo La Tengo, and the Aluminum Group. I hope I'm not the only one who likes this stuff... any other post rockers out there?
Wow, what a coincidence... I was just reading a scathing review of a 'lab album on Pitchfork, and idly thought, "I could post something about Stereolab on Metafilter... nah..." Anyway.
My two favorite post-rock bands are Godspeed You Black Emperor! and Sigur Ros. Godspeed somehow manages to fit crumbling cities, decaying amusement parks, crying old men and laughing children into amazing nontet instrumental climaxes, and Sigur Ros gets music critics to write things like "the sound of God weeping golden tears in heaven." A little much, to be sure, but listening to Sigur Ros is honestly a religious experience for me. Not to mention it's some of the most breathtakingly innovative music I've ever heard...
By the way -- pretty much any post-rock band would punch you in the face if you called them "post-rock." It's an extremely denegrated name, especially since it doesn't really refer to a specific style -- people just started using it because "avant garde" sounded too "artsy."
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:27 AM on July 23, 2001
My two favorite post-rock bands are Godspeed You Black Emperor! and Sigur Ros. Godspeed somehow manages to fit crumbling cities, decaying amusement parks, crying old men and laughing children into amazing nontet instrumental climaxes, and Sigur Ros gets music critics to write things like "the sound of God weeping golden tears in heaven." A little much, to be sure, but listening to Sigur Ros is honestly a religious experience for me. Not to mention it's some of the most breathtakingly innovative music I've ever heard...
By the way -- pretty much any post-rock band would punch you in the face if you called them "post-rock." It's an extremely denegrated name, especially since it doesn't really refer to a specific style -- people just started using it because "avant garde" sounded too "artsy."
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:27 AM on July 23, 2001
And I agree, almostcool... hell, post-rock.com calls Ida post-rock, of all bands...
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:29 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:29 AM on July 23, 2001
If "post rock" really exists as such, then Tortoise was probably the single most important band defining the genre.
If I'm not mistaken, "post rock" referred to the largely instrumental music coming out of Chicago a few years ago. Bands like Tortoise and The Sea and Cake defined the genre. They were absolutely torn apart by folks such as the Aquarius Records crew, who (justifiably, at times) accused Tortoise of drawing on the most insipid aspects of jazz fusion.
If post rock was a real genre, then its currency has passed. Tortoise was very relevant in 1995-6, and hardly revelant at all now.
Stereolab doesn't define the genre very well. Their wide canvass of influence (60's french pop, Brazilian Tropicalism, Krautrock, 60's free jazz) makes them unique and quite unlike a band like Tortoise.
If you're interested in "post-rock," check out Brainwashed.com - a great place to link to most of the essential bands. Shadow Records also has some good titles. This is a good list of post-rock bands. You should also check out Kranky Records and Thrill Jockey Records, the two standard-bearer record labels of the genre.
posted by preguicoso at 8:31 AM on July 23, 2001
If I'm not mistaken, "post rock" referred to the largely instrumental music coming out of Chicago a few years ago. Bands like Tortoise and The Sea and Cake defined the genre. They were absolutely torn apart by folks such as the Aquarius Records crew, who (justifiably, at times) accused Tortoise of drawing on the most insipid aspects of jazz fusion.
If post rock was a real genre, then its currency has passed. Tortoise was very relevant in 1995-6, and hardly revelant at all now.
Stereolab doesn't define the genre very well. Their wide canvass of influence (60's french pop, Brazilian Tropicalism, Krautrock, 60's free jazz) makes them unique and quite unlike a band like Tortoise.
If you're interested in "post-rock," check out Brainwashed.com - a great place to link to most of the essential bands. Shadow Records also has some good titles. This is a good list of post-rock bands. You should also check out Kranky Records and Thrill Jockey Records, the two standard-bearer record labels of the genre.
posted by preguicoso at 8:31 AM on July 23, 2001
I don't think that I've ever really thought of Stereolab or Yo La Tengo as really being post rock, and I've never heard The Aluminium Group before - I'll have to scoot off and search for some of their records now. It is a genre I've liked for a while though.
posted by Singular at 8:33 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by Singular at 8:33 AM on July 23, 2001
Sigur Ros is absolutely amazing, outstanding, awe-inspiring music.
Post-rock varies from precocious static-twiddling to simplistic classical arpeggios to true brilliance. It's one of those messy indie categories (like 'emo') that is hard to really define, and no one really likes. I find GYBE! warmly mellow, but rather over-hyped. Sigur Ros, as stated before, is amazing, and I'm also a big fan of Mogwai (rock tapestries), Rachel's (indie classical), Tortoise's TNT album (dub + jazz + er...), Cornelius's post-pop noodlings...
and the list goes on. Post-rock is if nothing else a vital, ever-changing style. This alone makes it more interesting than most of the crap on the market.
posted by Marquis at 8:34 AM on July 23, 2001
Post-rock varies from precocious static-twiddling to simplistic classical arpeggios to true brilliance. It's one of those messy indie categories (like 'emo') that is hard to really define, and no one really likes. I find GYBE! warmly mellow, but rather over-hyped. Sigur Ros, as stated before, is amazing, and I'm also a big fan of Mogwai (rock tapestries), Rachel's (indie classical), Tortoise's TNT album (dub + jazz + er...), Cornelius's post-pop noodlings...
and the list goes on. Post-rock is if nothing else a vital, ever-changing style. This alone makes it more interesting than most of the crap on the market.
posted by Marquis at 8:34 AM on July 23, 2001
Give it another decade, and you might see something to rival My Bloody Valentine's "Loveless". (And while I do like Sigur Ros, they're still not fit to lace the shoes of Kevin Shields.) And you ought to look at some early Boo Radleys stuff, circa "Lazarus" and "Everything's Alright Forever".
Mogwai fit the bill, too.
posted by holgate at 8:40 AM on July 23, 2001
Mogwai fit the bill, too.
posted by holgate at 8:40 AM on July 23, 2001
My first exposure to Yo La Tengo came through a concert at Tufts University four or five years ago, and I was not at all impressed with the total lack of enthusiasm they seemed to exhibit for everything, including their own music.
Nothing quite like an incredible album to alter a bad first impression... And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out is a quiet album with some of the most amazingly subtle arrangements I've ever heard. On several tracks, there are several points at which I expect the tempo to rise, the climax to come... and then the sound rolls on in its own beautifully understated manner. A very seductive album, indeed. I am a convert. Any suggestions on which album of theirs I should get next?
posted by kahboom at 8:40 AM on July 23, 2001
Nothing quite like an incredible album to alter a bad first impression... And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out is a quiet album with some of the most amazingly subtle arrangements I've ever heard. On several tracks, there are several points at which I expect the tempo to rise, the climax to come... and then the sound rolls on in its own beautifully understated manner. A very seductive album, indeed. I am a convert. Any suggestions on which album of theirs I should get next?
posted by kahboom at 8:40 AM on July 23, 2001
If you liked "And Then Nothing," you should try their last album before that, "I can hear the heart beating as one."
Just for the record, Yo La Tengo has been together since the early 1980's!! Their discography is thick!
As for their "lack of enthusiasm," that's just part of their stage demeanour. They are simply unpretentious and are not interested in the kind of stage antics that we come to expect at concerts. I saw them play a free show at Other Music in Cambridge MA in the fall and they were wonderful. Quiet, understated, and beautiful.
posted by preguicoso at 8:45 AM on July 23, 2001
Just for the record, Yo La Tengo has been together since the early 1980's!! Their discography is thick!
As for their "lack of enthusiasm," that's just part of their stage demeanour. They are simply unpretentious and are not interested in the kind of stage antics that we come to expect at concerts. I saw them play a free show at Other Music in Cambridge MA in the fall and they were wonderful. Quiet, understated, and beautiful.
posted by preguicoso at 8:45 AM on July 23, 2001
holgate,
No rock group has since come close to producing the kind of masterpiece that is Loveless.
Not even My Bloody Valentine themselves.
posted by preguicoso at 8:46 AM on July 23, 2001
No rock group has since come close to producing the kind of masterpiece that is Loveless.
Not even My Bloody Valentine themselves.
posted by preguicoso at 8:46 AM on July 23, 2001
Although I thoroughly enjoy Loveless by My Bloody Valentine, I think it's slightly overrated. Not only that, but I think that the sign of a great group is their ability to sort of ebb and flow and continue to change and make great albums, and that's one thing that MBV hasn't done (although Kevin Shields has done some decent remixes and contributions). Admittingly, most of the groups in the thread mentioned above haven't been around over 5 years (although Yo La Tengo have been kicking it for over 10 and Tortoise is well over half a decade now), I think (hope) that some of the above groups (some of my current favorites are Sigur Ros and GYBE!, as well as Calexico (damn they're good!)) will release some mindblowing work in their respective spans.
posted by almostcool at 8:53 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by almostcool at 8:53 AM on July 23, 2001
i can vouch for "i can hear the heart beating as one." it's a beautiful album. Damage is one of my favorites from that album, as is Center of Gravity. but you have to respect a band who can create a song called Return To Hot Chicken.
posted by moz at 8:53 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by moz at 8:53 AM on July 23, 2001
all the groups you guys are talking about are great. pigeonholes are for reviewers. btw, with all this talk about "loveless" i thought i should tell you guys that i just sold the guitar that was on the cover. if i had know there was interest on mefi i would've offered it here first.
as an unrelated aside, i've been listening to tons of serge gainsbourg - way ahead of his time.
posted by cheesebot at 8:55 AM on July 23, 2001
as an unrelated aside, i've been listening to tons of serge gainsbourg - way ahead of his time.
posted by cheesebot at 8:55 AM on July 23, 2001
Anyone else into Macha? (and not because it sounds like my username)
posted by machaus at 8:55 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by machaus at 8:55 AM on July 23, 2001
I've got to say, I recently made my first Yo La Tengo purchase ("I Can Hear the Heart...") and it just didn't do it for me. I was really surprised; maybe I need a few more "listens".
While I'm still at a loss as to what "post rock" actually means, one album I'm really loving right now is Modest Mouse's The Moon & Antarctica. On the electronic side, Thievery Corporation's Abductions & Reconstructions and Kruder & Dorfmeister's The K&D Sessions are locked in a death grip for control of my CD player.
Oh yeah, and there's always The Orb.
posted by jpoulos at 8:56 AM on July 23, 2001
While I'm still at a loss as to what "post rock" actually means, one album I'm really loving right now is Modest Mouse's The Moon & Antarctica. On the electronic side, Thievery Corporation's Abductions & Reconstructions and Kruder & Dorfmeister's The K&D Sessions are locked in a death grip for control of my CD player.
Oh yeah, and there's always The Orb.
posted by jpoulos at 8:56 AM on July 23, 2001
If post rock was a real genre, then its currency has passed.
Well, then we're talking about "post post rock", obviously...
posted by jpoulos at 9:00 AM on July 23, 2001
Well, then we're talking about "post post rock", obviously...
posted by jpoulos at 9:00 AM on July 23, 2001
I really don't like the term post rock, mainly because it implies rock is no more. Isn't dance music post rock?
Best live show I've seen in a while - A Silver Mt Zion
Worst live show I've seen in a while - Fly Pan Am
The live show I'd love to see - Godspeed
The live show I'd love to see again - Mogwai at Glastonbury 98
(don't know why I started writing all that down, but sure - they are all post rock)
posted by twistedonion at 9:04 AM on July 23, 2001
Best live show I've seen in a while - A Silver Mt Zion
Worst live show I've seen in a while - Fly Pan Am
The live show I'd love to see - Godspeed
The live show I'd love to see again - Mogwai at Glastonbury 98
(don't know why I started writing all that down, but sure - they are all post rock)
posted by twistedonion at 9:04 AM on July 23, 2001
machaus:
Macha is an underrated Athens band, as is Japancakes, which sounds a bit like a cross between Air and Stereolab. Living in Athens (I did for 10 years) can be kinda tough, from a musician's standpoint - when you play, you're not playing to a regular "audience", but rather a group of other musicians with the same dream. I miss Athens.
posted by Wizzle at 9:09 AM on July 23, 2001
Macha is an underrated Athens band, as is Japancakes, which sounds a bit like a cross between Air and Stereolab. Living in Athens (I did for 10 years) can be kinda tough, from a musician's standpoint - when you play, you're not playing to a regular "audience", but rather a group of other musicians with the same dream. I miss Athens.
posted by Wizzle at 9:09 AM on July 23, 2001
Aaargh, Cheesebot, no!. I would have seriously _loved_ to have owned that guitar.
posted by jonathanbell at 9:17 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by jonathanbell at 9:17 AM on July 23, 2001
Just bought Macha Loved Bedhead. Very good. I picked up the newest Mogwai at the same time, excellent combination.
I can't believe nobody's mentioned YLT's Painful. Maybe it's just because that was the first album I got, but it's my fav. The others mentioned are fantastic too.
Just last night I was contemplating writing an ode to sterolab... Mars Audiac Quintet. Ahhh....
But when my sweetie isn't too sick of it to complain, I've been playing Sunny Border Blue, by Kristen Hirsch. Off topic a bit (definitely not post-rock), but still good in a reminiscent sort of way.
posted by daver at 9:20 AM on July 23, 2001
I can't believe nobody's mentioned YLT's Painful. Maybe it's just because that was the first album I got, but it's my fav. The others mentioned are fantastic too.
Just last night I was contemplating writing an ode to sterolab... Mars Audiac Quintet. Ahhh....
But when my sweetie isn't too sick of it to complain, I've been playing Sunny Border Blue, by Kristen Hirsch. Off topic a bit (definitely not post-rock), but still good in a reminiscent sort of way.
posted by daver at 9:20 AM on July 23, 2001
allmusic.com:
Post-rock: Post-Rock was an experimental, avant-garde movement that emerged in the mid-'90s. Most post-rock was droning and hypnotic, drawing from ambient, free-form jazz, avant garde, and electronic music more than rock. The majority of post-rock groups were like Tortoise, a Chicago-based band with a rotating lineup. Tortoise viewed their music not as songs, but as ever-changing compositions that they improvised nightly.
Prog-rock:Progressive Rock and art rock incorporates elements of European and classical music to rock & roll music, resulting in long, complex instrumental passages and dramatic, grandiose flourishes...art rock bands tend to write compositions, not songs; instrumental prowess is also emphasized...Prog rockers do have some classical elements to their music, but they also have more of an overt jazz and psychedelic influences — and have a greater tendency to improvise.
...and to think Rick Wakeman is a joke now because of one full-orchestra-backed Arthurian legend song cycle performed as an ice ballet. He was way ahead of his time! Maybe today he'd perform in old churches with a projectionist...
posted by jeb at 9:22 AM on July 23, 2001
Post-rock: Post-Rock was an experimental, avant-garde movement that emerged in the mid-'90s. Most post-rock was droning and hypnotic, drawing from ambient, free-form jazz, avant garde, and electronic music more than rock. The majority of post-rock groups were like Tortoise, a Chicago-based band with a rotating lineup. Tortoise viewed their music not as songs, but as ever-changing compositions that they improvised nightly.
Prog-rock:Progressive Rock and art rock incorporates elements of European and classical music to rock & roll music, resulting in long, complex instrumental passages and dramatic, grandiose flourishes...art rock bands tend to write compositions, not songs; instrumental prowess is also emphasized...Prog rockers do have some classical elements to their music, but they also have more of an overt jazz and psychedelic influences — and have a greater tendency to improvise.
...and to think Rick Wakeman is a joke now because of one full-orchestra-backed Arthurian legend song cycle performed as an ice ballet. He was way ahead of his time! Maybe today he'd perform in old churches with a projectionist...
posted by jeb at 9:22 AM on July 23, 2001
I think the labeling thing always gets people hackles up. I know my hackles are up. Well, if I knew what my hackles were and where they are I could tell you for certain.
At any rate, as far as Yo La Tengo, I would certainly get I Can Hear The Heart Beating As One next. I went that route, but eventually ended up at President Yo La Tengo/New Wave Hot Dogs, a disc that is perilously close to being used as a coaster. Poopy!
At the cooler-than-thou "Anti-Mall" around the corner, there is a record shop with an "emo" section (which I was saddened to learn had almost no relation to Emo Philips), which would include many of these bands. Death Cab For Cutie is another that springs to mind. Check out their Forbidden Love EP or We Have The Facts And We're Voting Yes.
I've just begun to delve into Sigur Ros, and I have both studio albums and some boots of Godspeed. I must say I am rarely in the mood for them, though. If I want to hear walls o' music I usually go for Swans Are Dead by Swans. I think those guys were probably a big influence on Godspeed.
I also dig Modest Mouse, though I think from time to time their songwriting is a little, well, facile. I started on The Moon & Antarctica, and recently got This Is A Long Trip For Someone with Nothing To Think About.
Please do yourselves a favor and check out Excuses For Travelers by Mojave 3, the band that followed from Slowdive. Oh and Black Heart Procession.
As far as Stereolab goes, I don't think about em too much, but a day seldom goes by that I don't pop on Emperor Tomato Ketchup or Peng!
Anyone else into For Carnation?
Ramble over....it is now officially time for people to start complaining that these posts are just people showing off how cool their musical taste is. Start your engines!
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:22 AM on July 23, 2001
At any rate, as far as Yo La Tengo, I would certainly get I Can Hear The Heart Beating As One next. I went that route, but eventually ended up at President Yo La Tengo/New Wave Hot Dogs, a disc that is perilously close to being used as a coaster. Poopy!
At the cooler-than-thou "Anti-Mall" around the corner, there is a record shop with an "emo" section (which I was saddened to learn had almost no relation to Emo Philips), which would include many of these bands. Death Cab For Cutie is another that springs to mind. Check out their Forbidden Love EP or We Have The Facts And We're Voting Yes.
I've just begun to delve into Sigur Ros, and I have both studio albums and some boots of Godspeed. I must say I am rarely in the mood for them, though. If I want to hear walls o' music I usually go for Swans Are Dead by Swans. I think those guys were probably a big influence on Godspeed.
I also dig Modest Mouse, though I think from time to time their songwriting is a little, well, facile. I started on The Moon & Antarctica, and recently got This Is A Long Trip For Someone with Nothing To Think About.
Please do yourselves a favor and check out Excuses For Travelers by Mojave 3, the band that followed from Slowdive. Oh and Black Heart Procession.
As far as Stereolab goes, I don't think about em too much, but a day seldom goes by that I don't pop on Emperor Tomato Ketchup or Peng!
Anyone else into For Carnation?
Ramble over....it is now officially time for people to start complaining that these posts are just people showing off how cool their musical taste is. Start your engines!
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:22 AM on July 23, 2001
I think that the sign of a great group is their ability to sort of ebb and flow and continue to change and make great albums
Oh, I don't know about that. There's a place for the "one brilliant album" band. And nothing in the past decade has come close to the sheer musical wrench of Loveless's arrival.
And to echo jonathanbell: aargh, cheesebot, no!
posted by holgate at 9:24 AM on July 23, 2001
Oh, I don't know about that. There's a place for the "one brilliant album" band. And nothing in the past decade has come close to the sheer musical wrench of Loveless's arrival.
And to echo jonathanbell: aargh, cheesebot, no!
posted by holgate at 9:24 AM on July 23, 2001
The For Carnation - forgot about those guys!
The live show I was too stoned to be bothered getting off my arse to see and now I sooo regret that move - The For Carnation at Glastonbury
posted by twistedonion at 9:28 AM on July 23, 2001
The live show I was too stoned to be bothered getting off my arse to see and now I sooo regret that move - The For Carnation at Glastonbury
posted by twistedonion at 9:28 AM on July 23, 2001
jpoulos:
post rock was a term coined because a couple of post rock bands include some old timers from rock bands in the 80s. tim gane and laetitia sadier from stereolab were once in a "punk" band (i say that because their music doesn't sound like the typical punk fare) called McCarthy. the navin brothers from the aluminum group also, i have read, are former members of a rock band, though i never found out which.
to me, a post rock band (or at least the ones i like) is any group that is not afraid to produce what they want. that's a vague description; but consider. yo la tengo seems post rock to me because 1) they write some serious songs, but do not feel honor bound to (Center of Gravity from I Can Hear The Heart Beat As One doesn't seem very serious); and 2) i think that they, as a band, sacrifice individuality for the overall sound. there are lots of songs on I can hear... where it's hard to make out the vocalist; this is not a production error. rather, the voice lends to the overall melody of the sound.
the socialist roots of post rock make a lot of sense when you look at the politics of stereolab, for--well, i've given away the reason now. however, i think that beauty of sound as a goal of most bands i consider post rock. i personally consider a group such as Saint Etienne to be post rock (especially their recent work).
posted by moz at 9:33 AM on July 23, 2001
post rock was a term coined because a couple of post rock bands include some old timers from rock bands in the 80s. tim gane and laetitia sadier from stereolab were once in a "punk" band (i say that because their music doesn't sound like the typical punk fare) called McCarthy. the navin brothers from the aluminum group also, i have read, are former members of a rock band, though i never found out which.
to me, a post rock band (or at least the ones i like) is any group that is not afraid to produce what they want. that's a vague description; but consider. yo la tengo seems post rock to me because 1) they write some serious songs, but do not feel honor bound to (Center of Gravity from I Can Hear The Heart Beat As One doesn't seem very serious); and 2) i think that they, as a band, sacrifice individuality for the overall sound. there are lots of songs on I can hear... where it's hard to make out the vocalist; this is not a production error. rather, the voice lends to the overall melody of the sound.
the socialist roots of post rock make a lot of sense when you look at the politics of stereolab, for--well, i've given away the reason now. however, i think that beauty of sound as a goal of most bands i consider post rock. i personally consider a group such as Saint Etienne to be post rock (especially their recent work).
posted by moz at 9:33 AM on July 23, 2001
Uh, oh yeah. If yer in seattle, you might check out a Kinski show. I don't have Be Gentle with the Warm turtle yet, but what I've heard of it sounds good.
Also good and in genre -- Voyager 1. The New Nation of Long Shadows is a fine album.
posted by daver at 9:38 AM on July 23, 2001
Also good and in genre -- Voyager 1. The New Nation of Long Shadows is a fine album.
posted by daver at 9:38 AM on July 23, 2001
what about slint? i've seen them cited as the beginning of both emo and post rock. or how about san diego's physics? 45 minute improv jams based solely on 1 chord. members consisting of a revolving door of some 50 ex-hardcore/punk/metal musicians. can't beat that.
posted by afx114 at 9:43 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by afx114 at 9:43 AM on July 23, 2001
it seems like the site is listing bands that are not following a main stream philosophy (nor, the indie stream philosophy). Once again, there is no point to categorize these bands as post-rock. Putting Laika and Low in the same category does not help describe/explain anything. (BTW, Bright Eyes is quite a good band out of Nebraska, that does not fit well in categories. I can't stop listening to Fevers and Mirrors.)
posted by jessnoel at 10:01 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by jessnoel at 10:01 AM on July 23, 2001
BTW, Bright Eyes is quite a good band out of Nebraska, that does not fit well in categories. I can't stop listening to Fevers and Mirrors.
Conor Oberst is a tragic genius!
posted by nathan_teske at 10:09 AM on July 23, 2001
Conor Oberst is a tragic genius!
posted by nathan_teske at 10:09 AM on July 23, 2001
Bright Eyes is indeed cool, but it's just one guy (Conor Oberst). I much, much prefer the older Letting off the Happiness to last year's Fevers and Mirrors, but the latter's got the Neutral Milk Hotel guy, so it's not all bad.
I absolutely adore the Macha (from Macha Loved Bedhead EP) cover of Cher's "Believe". Wizzle, how do you pronounce their name? Does it rhyme with "Cha-cha" or is the "ch" pronounced like a klingon "kh"?
The new Mogwai, Rock Action is truly outstanding. I found the Swans album you mentioned, Kafkaesque, to be pondersome and pretentious. The Moon & Antarctica and Black Heart Procession, however, I adore.
We've kind of diverged from the post-rock talk, but no worries...
I'm a huge Gomez fan. Unlike in the UK, hardly anyone has heard of them here, so they don't have the mainstream-pretty-boy image they seem to have acquired in Britain. Delicious swamp rock that can't be pigeonholed. Except as "swamp rock," I guess. Er.
posted by Marquis at 10:18 AM on July 23, 2001
I absolutely adore the Macha (from Macha Loved Bedhead EP) cover of Cher's "Believe". Wizzle, how do you pronounce their name? Does it rhyme with "Cha-cha" or is the "ch" pronounced like a klingon "kh"?
The new Mogwai, Rock Action is truly outstanding. I found the Swans album you mentioned, Kafkaesque, to be pondersome and pretentious. The Moon & Antarctica and Black Heart Procession, however, I adore.
We've kind of diverged from the post-rock talk, but no worries...
I'm a huge Gomez fan. Unlike in the UK, hardly anyone has heard of them here, so they don't have the mainstream-pretty-boy image they seem to have acquired in Britain. Delicious swamp rock that can't be pigeonholed. Except as "swamp rock," I guess. Er.
posted by Marquis at 10:18 AM on July 23, 2001
Post rock + Prog rock = Porcupine Tree.
posted by scottandrew at 10:28 AM on July 23, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by scottandrew at 10:28 AM on July 23, 2001 [1 favorite]
I like Bunny Slippers' new album Hither and Zither LCF354. It's electro-minimalist clicks and drones, ambient avant-garde post-punk experimental art-trance with 10 minute snotty-rock deconstructions and sonic youth textured guitar stylings.
I asked my boyfriend about post-rock:
"Although I hate pigeonholing, and think it's a largely silly practice, as I understand it, the term post-rock was first used to describe the music of Bark Psychosis. They're Brits. And they're very very good."
posted by spandex at 10:29 AM on July 23, 2001
I asked my boyfriend about post-rock:
"Although I hate pigeonholing, and think it's a largely silly practice, as I understand it, the term post-rock was first used to describe the music of Bark Psychosis. They're Brits. And they're very very good."
posted by spandex at 10:29 AM on July 23, 2001
it is now officially time for people to start complaining that these posts are just people showing off how cool their musical taste is. Start your engines!
Yeah, what, is Ratt not good enough for you people??
posted by D at 10:36 AM on July 23, 2001
Yeah, what, is Ratt not good enough for you people??
posted by D at 10:36 AM on July 23, 2001
Consider Bark Psychosis:
"Despite a relatively small recorded output and little media recognition, Bark Psychosis was one of the most innovative artists of their era. From rather uninspired origins as a teenaged Napalm Death cover band, the British quartet evolved by leaps and bounds, moving from moody, lush pop to ambient soundscapes to taut, atmospheric experimental music; their work was so revolutionary, and so impossible to define, that noted critic Simon Reynolds even found it necessary to invent a new sub-genre — "post-rock" — simply to categorize their vision." -allmusic.com
Most of their stuff is out of print, but I did manage to grab a few tracks on Napster...worth looking for!
Also, I'd like to give a shout out to Trans Am and Three Mile Pilot, whose 'Chief Assassin to the Sinister' took me a couple of years to truly understand and enjoy.
posted by black8 at 10:37 AM on July 23, 2001
"Despite a relatively small recorded output and little media recognition, Bark Psychosis was one of the most innovative artists of their era. From rather uninspired origins as a teenaged Napalm Death cover band, the British quartet evolved by leaps and bounds, moving from moody, lush pop to ambient soundscapes to taut, atmospheric experimental music; their work was so revolutionary, and so impossible to define, that noted critic Simon Reynolds even found it necessary to invent a new sub-genre — "post-rock" — simply to categorize their vision." -allmusic.com
Most of their stuff is out of print, but I did manage to grab a few tracks on Napster...worth looking for!
Also, I'd like to give a shout out to Trans Am and Three Mile Pilot, whose 'Chief Assassin to the Sinister' took me a couple of years to truly understand and enjoy.
posted by black8 at 10:37 AM on July 23, 2001
Wizzle:
Austin, tx has much the same type of scene as Athens... musicians mainly playing for their own kind and having trouble building sizable appreciative audiences... there are a number of high quality bands popping up however that tiptoe around the edges of post-rock, post-prog, rock, jazz, etc, blahblahblahwhateveryouwanttocallit... Blue Noise Band can tear it up,jazz it out, or go klezmer with equal skill and aplomb. They will be playing San Francisco's 111 Annex this Tuesday night. Golden Arm Trio has built a serious reputation locally by melding rockin songs with decidedly classical structure and feel. Chris Black and the Holy Ghost self described as "Drenched in the blood of the Old Testament, dragged through the fire of the Sacre du Printemps, and locked up in the drunk tank with the winos and perverts. " If that ain't interesting I dont know what is... Check these guys out for something completely different from but related to many of the other bands that have been mentioned...
posted by adamholz at 10:37 AM on July 23, 2001
Austin, tx has much the same type of scene as Athens... musicians mainly playing for their own kind and having trouble building sizable appreciative audiences... there are a number of high quality bands popping up however that tiptoe around the edges of post-rock, post-prog, rock, jazz, etc, blahblahblahwhateveryouwanttocallit... Blue Noise Band can tear it up,jazz it out, or go klezmer with equal skill and aplomb. They will be playing San Francisco's 111 Annex this Tuesday night. Golden Arm Trio has built a serious reputation locally by melding rockin songs with decidedly classical structure and feel. Chris Black and the Holy Ghost self described as "Drenched in the blood of the Old Testament, dragged through the fire of the Sacre du Printemps, and locked up in the drunk tank with the winos and perverts. " If that ain't interesting I dont know what is... Check these guys out for something completely different from but related to many of the other bands that have been mentioned...
posted by adamholz at 10:37 AM on July 23, 2001
ack! the bed-wetters have invaded this post-rock thread! Bright Eyes has been mentioned! Stereolab!? Yo La Tengo?! The Aluminum Group?! Post-rock? huh?
posted by iceblink at 10:38 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by iceblink at 10:38 AM on July 23, 2001
What *would* modest mouse be pigeonholed as? I just refer to them as modern day pixies, when speaking to the uninitiated.... One of my favorites at the moment....
Oh, and the new Unwound (leaves turn inside you) is really good....
Gomez just doesnt do it for me....my ex was really into them....
Been meaning to check out GYBE, guess I have to now.
posted by Espoo2 at 10:47 AM on July 23, 2001
Oh, and the new Unwound (leaves turn inside you) is really good....
Gomez just doesnt do it for me....my ex was really into them....
Been meaning to check out GYBE, guess I have to now.
posted by Espoo2 at 10:47 AM on July 23, 2001
Of course, this is more about marketing than music, but....
I first heard the term "post rock" about 5 years ago, applied to bands like Tortoise, Flying Saucer Attack, Labradford, Third Eye Foundation, etc
At that time the other bands mentioned were not really considered "postrock" --
Mouse on Mars, Oval, Panasonic etc were classified (somewhat imperfectly) under "IDM"
Stereolab, Pram, Broadcast etc were in another genre (postpop?)
>>what about slint?
Yeah, very influential. Spiderland is brilliant
Yo la Tengo predates all this shit.
posted by johnb at 10:48 AM on July 23, 2001
I first heard the term "post rock" about 5 years ago, applied to bands like Tortoise, Flying Saucer Attack, Labradford, Third Eye Foundation, etc
At that time the other bands mentioned were not really considered "postrock" --
Mouse on Mars, Oval, Panasonic etc were classified (somewhat imperfectly) under "IDM"
Stereolab, Pram, Broadcast etc were in another genre (postpop?)
>>what about slint?
Yeah, very influential. Spiderland is brilliant
Yo la Tengo predates all this shit.
posted by johnb at 10:48 AM on July 23, 2001
I found the Swans album you mentioned, Kafkaesque, to be pondersome and pretentious.
You say that like it's a bad thing! I don't know why, but I love that album. Maybe because I grew up on New Romantic music, I have a soft spot for bands that take themselves WAY too seriously.
and as far as ack! the bed-wetters have invaded this post-rock thread! Bright Eyes has been mentioned! Stereolab!? Yo La Tengo?! The Aluminum Group?! Post-rock? huh?....the last 3 bands were mentioned in the original post, weren't they?
I still don't really see the definition I guess.
How about For Stars? Kind of along the same lines.
posted by Kafkaesque at 10:57 AM on July 23, 2001
You say that like it's a bad thing! I don't know why, but I love that album. Maybe because I grew up on New Romantic music, I have a soft spot for bands that take themselves WAY too seriously.
and as far as ack! the bed-wetters have invaded this post-rock thread! Bright Eyes has been mentioned! Stereolab!? Yo La Tengo?! The Aluminum Group?! Post-rock? huh?....the last 3 bands were mentioned in the original post, weren't they?
I still don't really see the definition I guess.
How about For Stars? Kind of along the same lines.
posted by Kafkaesque at 10:57 AM on July 23, 2001
I'm glad someone mentioned Slint.
I'd say, with respect to Post-rock, that it starts with Slint and ends with Tortoise.
What's the conduit running through all this?
Dave Pajo!
posted by preguicoso at 11:00 AM on July 23, 2001
I'd say, with respect to Post-rock, that it starts with Slint and ends with Tortoise.
What's the conduit running through all this?
Dave Pajo!
posted by preguicoso at 11:00 AM on July 23, 2001
Someone said: I found the Swans album you mentioned, Kafkaesque, to be pondersome and pretentious.
A common conversation around where I live is, "my favorite seven inch can beat up your favorite seven inch." It's all those indie rock record collector boys getting into pissing contests. Kinda fun to watch for a few seconds.
I'd like to add my contrarian two cents in here. All indie rock (with a few exceptions that might not even be indie rock, like The Fucking Champs) is pondersome and pretentious. After spending a decade in an indie-rock saturated city, I'm happy to be moving somewhere far, far away very soon.
The navel-gazing, middle to upper class white boy bitching about how tough love and life can be to a catchy pop guitar riff while what he really needs is a good kick in the teeth to let him know what pain really is bothers me to no end. Give me a shot of the good old stuff anytime (e.g. , old punk, western swing, rockabilly, jump blues, et cetera).
Of course, it's a matter of taste but I couldn't resist a thread involving indie rock.
posted by estopped at 11:16 AM on July 23, 2001
A common conversation around where I live is, "my favorite seven inch can beat up your favorite seven inch." It's all those indie rock record collector boys getting into pissing contests. Kinda fun to watch for a few seconds.
I'd like to add my contrarian two cents in here. All indie rock (with a few exceptions that might not even be indie rock, like The Fucking Champs) is pondersome and pretentious. After spending a decade in an indie-rock saturated city, I'm happy to be moving somewhere far, far away very soon.
The navel-gazing, middle to upper class white boy bitching about how tough love and life can be to a catchy pop guitar riff while what he really needs is a good kick in the teeth to let him know what pain really is bothers me to no end. Give me a shot of the good old stuff anytime (e.g. , old punk, western swing, rockabilly, jump blues, et cetera).
Of course, it's a matter of taste but I couldn't resist a thread involving indie rock.
posted by estopped at 11:16 AM on July 23, 2001
One of those bands had music from one of their most known songs used in an Infinity/Nissan commercial in the US about two years ago (in a forest). Anyone know the name?
posted by ParisParamus at 11:19 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 11:19 AM on July 23, 2001
If anyone says anything about "angular guitars" I'm going to puke...
posted by ry at 11:24 AM on July 23, 2001
posted by ry at 11:24 AM on July 23, 2001
preguicoso
is that "ewww!!!!" at the term or the music? I don't know what emo means anyway. Sounds like a feisty rock critic term. Does it have anything to do with "No-one has problems like mine" themes running through the music?
These damn kids with their hair and their clothes and all their labels for music! I'm getting confused! For me the only labels that really apply are Music Kafkesque Likes and Music Kafkaesque Doesn't Like. Life would be a lot simpler that way.
note to self: stop referring to self in 3rd person.
and emocore sounds like
a) a comfy new bedding material along the lines of those egg carton looking foam pad thingys.
or
b) A science fiction comic nonsense term. "Aquaman! Little Billy's trapped in the Emocore! Call the Wonder Twins! OK, they can bring Gleep if they have to."
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:45 AM on July 23, 2001
is that "ewww!!!!" at the term or the music? I don't know what emo means anyway. Sounds like a feisty rock critic term. Does it have anything to do with "No-one has problems like mine" themes running through the music?
These damn kids with their hair and their clothes and all their labels for music! I'm getting confused! For me the only labels that really apply are Music Kafkesque Likes and Music Kafkaesque Doesn't Like. Life would be a lot simpler that way.
note to self: stop referring to self in 3rd person.
and emocore sounds like
a) a comfy new bedding material along the lines of those egg carton looking foam pad thingys.
or
b) A science fiction comic nonsense term. "Aquaman! Little Billy's trapped in the Emocore! Call the Wonder Twins! OK, they can bring Gleep if they have to."
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:45 AM on July 23, 2001
Emo comes from EMO-tional.
Does it have anything to do with "No-one has problems like mine" themes running through the music?
Bingo! That's precisely what it means. Cheesy, over-wrought hand-wringing from whiteboy college sophomores. Yuck!
posted by preguicoso at 11:50 AM on July 23, 2001
Does it have anything to do with "No-one has problems like mine" themes running through the music?
Bingo! That's precisely what it means. Cheesy, over-wrought hand-wringing from whiteboy college sophomores. Yuck!
posted by preguicoso at 11:50 AM on July 23, 2001
Attractive whiteboy college sophomores.
Is it just me, or are all of those pop-punk (there's anoter pseudo-genre) emo kids far too attractive to be whining? Guh. Someone shoot Jimmy Eat World.(although i really liked clarity)
posted by Marquis at 11:52 AM on July 23, 2001
Is it just me, or are all of those pop-punk (there's anoter pseudo-genre) emo kids far too attractive to be whining? Guh. Someone shoot Jimmy Eat World.(although i really liked clarity)
posted by Marquis at 11:52 AM on July 23, 2001
didn't you know self-loathing and pretentiousness is a turn on for girls? they all dig the attractive guys who think they're ugly. unless you actually are ugly, in which case no one pays attention to you. so, emo is surprisingly like the rest of music and life in general.
i will say, though, that we are all (myself included) making far too many assumptions about all the musicians we're picking on. i'm not saying the criticism of jimmy eat world (who is jimmy eat world?) or whomever is off base, because i don't know, but i am saying of course you don't know for sure that most indie bands are comprised of middle-upper class kids with no conception of life.
posted by moz at 12:09 PM on July 23, 2001
i will say, though, that we are all (myself included) making far too many assumptions about all the musicians we're picking on. i'm not saying the criticism of jimmy eat world (who is jimmy eat world?) or whomever is off base, because i don't know, but i am saying of course you don't know for sure that most indie bands are comprised of middle-upper class kids with no conception of life.
posted by moz at 12:09 PM on July 23, 2001
Mummy, make the words big again.
The Wire claim that they coined the term "post-rock" (in an article available in their Think Pieces archive. This was the article that intruduced me to a lot of this music (when I read online quite a few years ago now), and was the first piece of music journalism that made me even mildly enthusiastic about new music since Morley/Penman in the early 80s.
Although the music journalist that had the most positive effect on my development was Lou Stathis in Heavy Metal. Go, as they say, figure.
posted by Grangousier at 12:13 PM on July 23, 2001
The Wire claim that they coined the term "post-rock" (in an article available in their Think Pieces archive. This was the article that intruduced me to a lot of this music (when I read online quite a few years ago now), and was the first piece of music journalism that made me even mildly enthusiastic about new music since Morley/Penman in the early 80s.
Although the music journalist that had the most positive effect on my development was Lou Stathis in Heavy Metal. Go, as they say, figure.
posted by Grangousier at 12:13 PM on July 23, 2001
Ah, but how many of these post-rock bands will have a horrible TV movie on VH1? I ASK YOU?!?!?!?
I think this whole "post-rock" nonsense is just a way to describe the end of the traditional (yeah, after 40 years, it's a "tradition") rock & roll setup. I mean, Tortoise is about as far removed from Chuck Berry as you can get. Plus, we've all grown up big and strong with the Elvis/Beatles duality: you're either a solo singer, or you're one tight group. The music isn't blues-based, and it's not in the realm of either "let's have sex girl" or "fuck everything", so it's really just music that happens to be run through an amplifier. And damn good stuff at that.
Being all non-indie and stuff, I didn't know that Tortoise were passe', so I've been listening to Standards a lot lately. I'll be sure to readjust my attitudes. ;)
Also, a band that just fell into my lap: Bright, whose latest album, Full Negative (or) Breaks, is quite nice. And GYBE! as well.
Yo La Tengo as post-rock? I'm not buying it.
Indie people are funny.
posted by solistrato at 12:23 PM on July 23, 2001
I think this whole "post-rock" nonsense is just a way to describe the end of the traditional (yeah, after 40 years, it's a "tradition") rock & roll setup. I mean, Tortoise is about as far removed from Chuck Berry as you can get. Plus, we've all grown up big and strong with the Elvis/Beatles duality: you're either a solo singer, or you're one tight group. The music isn't blues-based, and it's not in the realm of either "let's have sex girl" or "fuck everything", so it's really just music that happens to be run through an amplifier. And damn good stuff at that.
Being all non-indie and stuff, I didn't know that Tortoise were passe', so I've been listening to Standards a lot lately. I'll be sure to readjust my attitudes. ;)
Also, a band that just fell into my lap: Bright, whose latest album, Full Negative (or) Breaks, is quite nice. And GYBE! as well.
Yo La Tengo as post-rock? I'm not buying it.
Indie people are funny.
posted by solistrato at 12:23 PM on July 23, 2001
...but Diesel Sweeties is not. I sympathise with indie-boy's Corin Tucker thing, though. Having seen (and been disappointed by) Sleater-Kinney live, I can attest that she's one foxy mama.
posted by Marquis at 12:29 PM on July 23, 2001
posted by Marquis at 12:29 PM on July 23, 2001
Someone mentioned the late, lamented Flying Saucer Attack up there. Goooood stuff. Many of the releases from thematically similar Detroit space rock bands of the mid-90s (Fuxa and Windy & Carl being the most notable) still hold up, in my mind.
(Haven't seen any mention of weirdo San Franciscans Matmos yet, either; they've recorded and toured with the Rachel's and do some oddly compelling stuff with sampling; A Chance to Cut is a Chance to Cure makes extensive use of sampled surgery noises.)
posted by snarkout at 12:31 PM on July 23, 2001
(Haven't seen any mention of weirdo San Franciscans Matmos yet, either; they've recorded and toured with the Rachel's and do some oddly compelling stuff with sampling; A Chance to Cut is a Chance to Cure makes extensive use of sampled surgery noises.)
posted by snarkout at 12:31 PM on July 23, 2001
and emocore sounds like ... [a] science fiction comic nonsense term. "Aquaman! Little Billy's trapped in the Emocore! Call the Wonder Twins! OK, they can bring Gleep if they have to."
Ho ho ho. That's a good one. "The emocore is dangerouisly close to overloading! Our warp drive is fried!"
We've discussed emo before on MeFi, for non-bowl-cut-and-hornrims types who want to know what the hell it is.
posted by snarkout at 12:34 PM on July 23, 2001
Ho ho ho. That's a good one. "The emocore is dangerouisly close to overloading! Our warp drive is fried!"
We've discussed emo before on MeFi, for non-bowl-cut-and-hornrims types who want to know what the hell it is.
posted by snarkout at 12:34 PM on July 23, 2001
I like couch, the ear of dr yes, and I guess something like Jeff Greinke's Ride fits here. Tortoise and Sigur Ros are good too. Not my main thing though.
posted by aflakete at 1:38 PM on July 23, 2001
posted by aflakete at 1:38 PM on July 23, 2001
I would just like to interject here, even though I have nothing else worthwhile to say: I AM REALLY INDIE.
Thank you.
(And yes, Loveless is one of the best albums ever made. Up there with Pet Sounds, no question.)
posted by tweebiscuit at 1:53 PM on July 23, 2001
Thank you.
(And yes, Loveless is one of the best albums ever made. Up there with Pet Sounds, no question.)
posted by tweebiscuit at 1:53 PM on July 23, 2001
While it's unlikely at this point in the thread, anyone curious about this style of music who'd like a good introductory burst might enjoy this fine product, available at most major record stores for the low low price of about 10 bucks. Hours of fun!
posted by dong_resin at 1:57 PM on July 23, 2001
posted by dong_resin at 1:57 PM on July 23, 2001
"I'd like to add my contrarian two cents in here. All indie rock (with a few exceptions that might not even be indie rock, like The Fucking Champs) is pondersome and pretentious. After spending a decade in an indie-rock saturated city, I'm happy to be moving somewhere far, far away very soon.
The navel-gazing, middle to upper class white boy bitching about how tough love and life can be to a catchy pop guitar riff while what he really needs is a good kick in the teeth to let him know what pain really is bothers me to no end. Give me a shot of the good old stuff anytime (e.g. , old punk, western swing, rockabilly, jump blues, et cetera).
Of course, it's a matter of taste but I couldn't resist a thread involving indie rock.
The navel-gazing, middle to upper class white boy bitching about how tough love and life can be to a catchy pop guitar riff while what he really needs is a good kick in the teeth to let him know what pain really is bothers me to no end. Give me a shot of the good old stuff anytime (e.g. , old punk, western swing, rockabilly, jump blues, et cetera).
Of course, it's a matter of taste but I couldn't resist a thread involving indie rock.
Ben Fold's new song comments on whiney white boy musicians. You can hear a streaming version below:
http://www.benfoldsonline.com/
posted by mecran01 at 1:59 PM on July 23, 2001
Not to carry on here, but i'm getting an indie rock "warm-fuzzy" that so many me-fier's love Loveless.
Although Kevin Shields continues to tease us, there have been some really nice tributes/approximations recently. Has anyone heard Bowery Electric? There's a song called "Fear of Flying" on their LP, Vertigo, that sounds like the real thing.
Yo La Tengo as post-rock? I'm not buying it.
Me either, solistrato.
Dong Resin - I think Bardo Pond is considered "Space Rock," at least by the kids. Definitely a post-rock impulse, though.
Snark Out - yes, yes, yes. Matmos, Flying Saucer Attack,even Windy and Carl. Ahhhh. Antarctica
And I must say, before I exit this thread, that Superchunk is really to blame for a lot of bad emo spawn, although I think they were a good band.
posted by preguicoso at 3:40 PM on July 23, 2001
Although Kevin Shields continues to tease us, there have been some really nice tributes/approximations recently. Has anyone heard Bowery Electric? There's a song called "Fear of Flying" on their LP, Vertigo, that sounds like the real thing.
Yo La Tengo as post-rock? I'm not buying it.
Me either, solistrato.
Dong Resin - I think Bardo Pond is considered "Space Rock," at least by the kids. Definitely a post-rock impulse, though.
Snark Out - yes, yes, yes. Matmos, Flying Saucer Attack,even Windy and Carl. Ahhhh. Antarctica
And I must say, before I exit this thread, that Superchunk is really to blame for a lot of bad emo spawn, although I think they were a good band.
posted by preguicoso at 3:40 PM on July 23, 2001
I sympathise with indie-boy's Corin Tucker thing, though. Having seen (and been disappointed by) Sleater-Kinney live, I can attest that she's one foxy mama.
'course she's hot. She's a North Dakota girl, you know.
posted by nathan_teske at 6:40 PM on July 23, 2001
'course she's hot. She's a North Dakota girl, you know.
posted by nathan_teske at 6:40 PM on July 23, 2001
Shudder To Think has long been one of my favorite bands. I would describe them as a Post/Prog-rock mix. Admittedly, Craig Wedren's vocals are an acquired taste for most folks. Pony Express Record and 50,000 B.C. are both excellent and completely different records. Does anyone know what's up with them?
posted by ooklah at 9:20 PM on July 23, 2001
posted by ooklah at 9:20 PM on July 23, 2001
I was advising people to buy the Matador 3 disc set, not Bardo Pond specifically. I bought it roughly a year and a half ago and I'm still into it. Good stuff.
Shudder To Think is cool as h-e-double hockey sticks.
posted by dong_resin at 9:36 PM on July 23, 2001
Shudder To Think is cool as h-e-double hockey sticks.
posted by dong_resin at 9:36 PM on July 23, 2001
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posted by almostcool at 8:24 AM on July 23, 2001