MSN blocks its subscribers
July 31, 2001 11:09 AM Subscribe
MSN blocks its subscribers from sending mail with non-Outlook mail clients, as of last week. Like AOL, MSN hasn't allowed its subscribers to check their MSN mail with non-MS mail clients since the beginning. Last April, they banned access to non-MSN SMTP servers (to block spam relaying), but you could still send mail to other ISPs through MSN's SMTP server using your mail client of choice with a simple fix. Now, you can only do so if you switch to Outlook or Outlook Express (quietly announced on their site and via e-mail). All others (Eudora, Pegasus, Agent, Yahoo Mail, Netscape Messenger) are left cold. (more inside...)
Oh, and even though the Microsoft e-mail says the changes were supposed to go into effect on July 16th, it appears they weren't active on all their mail servers until just a few days ago.
posted by waxpancake at 11:21 AM on July 31, 2001
posted by waxpancake at 11:21 AM on July 31, 2001
What good is a monopoly if you don't abuse it?
It's certainly a hostile action, if you think of the classic, open nature of the web (there I go, talking like a crazed hippie), but in the current must-make-money-any-way-possible business climate, this is simply exploiting the advantages Microsoft already has, so why not put the walls up and block other clients?
They'll probably say it was done to reduce tech support calls on non-MS clients to their call centers, but I wonder how much tech support calls will increase when people have to abandon their preferred clients for Outlook ones?
posted by mathowie at 11:57 AM on July 31, 2001
It's certainly a hostile action, if you think of the classic, open nature of the web (there I go, talking like a crazed hippie), but in the current must-make-money-any-way-possible business climate, this is simply exploiting the advantages Microsoft already has, so why not put the walls up and block other clients?
They'll probably say it was done to reduce tech support calls on non-MS clients to their call centers, but I wonder how much tech support calls will increase when people have to abandon their preferred clients for Outlook ones?
posted by mathowie at 11:57 AM on July 31, 2001
Apparently, their new blocking measures are so stringent that even Outlook XP is having problems.
posted by waxpancake at 12:13 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by waxpancake at 12:13 PM on July 31, 2001
This makes me so happy that I have a local isp for my DSL.
posted by Qambient at 12:16 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by Qambient at 12:16 PM on July 31, 2001
Oh, for the love of God, people -- you can't use any client but AOL's with AOL mail, you can't use any client but their website for Yahoo mail, ad infinitum. You're all just pissy because it's Microsoft.
Gawd, this gets old fast.
posted by delfuego at 12:19 PM on July 31, 2001
Gawd, this gets old fast.
posted by delfuego at 12:19 PM on July 31, 2001
I can't speak to the others, but for Yahoo at least, that's incorrect -- I grab my email from there just fine with Eudora, using instructions Yahoo provided. I haven't found a way around AOL but I'd be curious to know about the others -- it seems there's some variation.
posted by raku at 12:26 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by raku at 12:26 PM on July 31, 2001
It's worthy because it's another AOL-like action MS is taking. This is an action to move towards the proprietary, walled-in world of AOL by Microsoft in their never ending war to beat AOL. Next thing you know, they'll ban Netscape browsers and require MSN Explorer?
posted by mathowie at 12:32 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by mathowie at 12:32 PM on July 31, 2001
This is a convenient development for people who create viruses. (Virii?)
posted by swerve at 12:33 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by swerve at 12:33 PM on July 31, 2001
You're all just pissy because it's Microsoft.
Please point me, delfuego, to where I can buy a PC with AOL-OS pre-installed?
posted by holgate at 12:37 PM on July 31, 2001
Please point me, delfuego, to where I can buy a PC with AOL-OS pre-installed?
posted by holgate at 12:37 PM on July 31, 2001
Speaking of email clients, are there any decent ones for Windows that you'd recommend? I currently use Outlook at work and at home, but I'd like to find something else for at home. I've tried Outlook Express, Eudora, and PegasusMail, none of which I like. I don't need the calendar, journal, tasks, etc. features, just a good email program..
posted by valerie at 12:49 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by valerie at 12:49 PM on July 31, 2001
Valerie - I know Opera now has an email client but I haven't tried it myself. Anyone here have an opinion on it?
posted by thunder at 12:55 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by thunder at 12:55 PM on July 31, 2001
Valerie: The Bat! comes highly highly recommended. Also, the Opera integral client is very nice.
posted by hijinx at 1:11 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by hijinx at 1:11 PM on July 31, 2001
Delfuego: Read it again. I acknowledged in the post that MSN, like AOL, has required users to use a Microsoft product to check their MSN account's e-mail from the beginning. That's not the issue here.
Even AOL lets you send and receive e-mail to other ISPs through their dialup access (and with any e-mail client you like). As of last week, MSN doesn't.
posted by waxpancake at 1:13 PM on July 31, 2001
Even AOL lets you send and receive e-mail to other ISPs through their dialup access (and with any e-mail client you like). As of last week, MSN doesn't.
posted by waxpancake at 1:13 PM on July 31, 2001
I use msn to send mail from a windows CE device and it is blocked even though I am using pocket outlook. This means I am locked into a 3 year contract and cant use the service, I am going to have to fight this one.
posted by me myself and i at 1:47 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by me myself and i at 1:47 PM on July 31, 2001
Oh, for the love of God, people -- you can't use any client but AOL's with AOL mail,
Actually, you can check your AOL mail by going to www.aol.com.
posted by Tin Man at 2:27 PM on July 31, 2001
Actually, you can check your AOL mail by going to www.aol.com.
posted by Tin Man at 2:27 PM on July 31, 2001
I've heard good things about the Bat and in my limited experience with it, Opera's internal mail features are pretty solid. Much better than the old Netscape Communicator crap IMHO.
I will also echo what others have said. By virtue of being a monopoly on the desktop, Microsoft has some extra baggage that the other's do not. Furthermore, there aren't rampant security issues using AOL mail or Yahoo mail as there are with Outlook.
People who wish that other people get over their anti-Microsoft bias may want to inspect their own pro-Microsoft biases. Either that or perhaps schedule an appointment with you doctor to surgically remove the wool that is attached to your facial region.
posted by fooljay at 2:40 PM on July 31, 2001
I will also echo what others have said. By virtue of being a monopoly on the desktop, Microsoft has some extra baggage that the other's do not. Furthermore, there aren't rampant security issues using AOL mail or Yahoo mail as there are with Outlook.
People who wish that other people get over their anti-Microsoft bias may want to inspect their own pro-Microsoft biases. Either that or perhaps schedule an appointment with you doctor to surgically remove the wool that is attached to your facial region.
posted by fooljay at 2:40 PM on July 31, 2001
From the few I know who use Becky, have said good stuff about it.
posted by tamim at 4:01 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by tamim at 4:01 PM on July 31, 2001
Now while I think this is a pissy thing to do, MSN: The ISP does not have a monopoly, and while it comes on your desktop when you install 95/98 you would be just as likely to install AOL. I'm not saying for people to ignore MS and their abuses, but don't turn a blind eye towards AOL. When you own the media, as AOL does (and MS doesn't really) - it becomes easier and easier to refocus the debate in your favor...
posted by owillis at 4:09 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by owillis at 4:09 PM on July 31, 2001
good lord, i've been using opera for the past 3 years and i've never thought of using the built-in email client.. looks like i got something to try for the weekend..
posted by lotsofno at 4:21 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by lotsofno at 4:21 PM on July 31, 2001
holgate: AOLOS, perhaps coming soon to a desktop near you.
Q, whatever this says about people's pro- or anti-M$ biases, it's clear this is a legitimate topic of discussion. If the industry is moving toward walled gardens, and there's a sense that this is the defensive reaction they're all looking at, the open internet could become an anachronism. What if websites returned to exclusive-content deals to ensure revenue, and you had to be an MSN or AOL subscriber to access them or even just special features? That's certainly a possibility.
Even absent this industry trend, this is legitimate to examine as it relates to Microsoft's history of product linkage.
Indeed, the practice may well be perfectly legal, in which case it's simply a matter of a set of features that potential customers may or may not desire in their ISP.
In which case it's still a legitimate topic of discussion as it relates to the customer decision.
Ultimately, I think Microsoft simply shouldn't be in the ISP business. It's a disturbing conflict of interest. If they have millions of captive customers, and modifications of their commercial software will help them keep those customers captive, they have an incentive to modify the software that us non-customers use in ways that will diminish our choices or block development paths. We know, because they've done it before.
Even if it falls short of monopoly, it still makes me mad as hell.
posted by dhartung at 4:46 PM on July 31, 2001
Q, whatever this says about people's pro- or anti-M$ biases, it's clear this is a legitimate topic of discussion. If the industry is moving toward walled gardens, and there's a sense that this is the defensive reaction they're all looking at, the open internet could become an anachronism. What if websites returned to exclusive-content deals to ensure revenue, and you had to be an MSN or AOL subscriber to access them or even just special features? That's certainly a possibility.
Even absent this industry trend, this is legitimate to examine as it relates to Microsoft's history of product linkage.
Indeed, the practice may well be perfectly legal, in which case it's simply a matter of a set of features that potential customers may or may not desire in their ISP.
In which case it's still a legitimate topic of discussion as it relates to the customer decision.
Ultimately, I think Microsoft simply shouldn't be in the ISP business. It's a disturbing conflict of interest. If they have millions of captive customers, and modifications of their commercial software will help them keep those customers captive, they have an incentive to modify the software that us non-customers use in ways that will diminish our choices or block development paths. We know, because they've done it before.
Even if it falls short of monopoly, it still makes me mad as hell.
posted by dhartung at 4:46 PM on July 31, 2001
MSN spectacularly failed to compete with AOL when it was a proprietary online service. So it transformed itself into a conventional ISP. Surreptitiously turning itself back into an online service is somewhat disingenuous, particularly for those who signed up for three-year ISP contracts when they bought their PCs. (That's why, owillis, consumers often aren't in a position to choose their ISP from a set of desktop icons.)
posted by holgate at 5:04 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by holgate at 5:04 PM on July 31, 2001
What I especially don't understand, is for people who signed up on a 3-year contract to use MSN as their ISP, is there anyway to get out of the contract? Since MSN is no longer allowing you to use your own choice of software for checking email, what happens if you want to switch to another ISP?
posted by Maxor at 5:25 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by Maxor at 5:25 PM on July 31, 2001
Isn't the issue not so much the SMTP server being blocked from other clients, but the fact that no other clients support Microsoft's Secure Password Authentication (SPA)?
I would guess that any client that supported SPA would suddenly find itself able to send SMTP mail through MSN again.
posted by anildash at 5:35 PM on July 31, 2001
I would guess that any client that supported SPA would suddenly find itself able to send SMTP mail through MSN again.
posted by anildash at 5:35 PM on July 31, 2001
Correct. This is not an issue of blocking other mail servers - but a simple issue of other clients not supporting the security protocol.
The clients upgrade and blammo - it will all work just fine again.
posted by soulhuntre at 6:11 PM on July 31, 2001
The clients upgrade and blammo - it will all work just fine again.
posted by soulhuntre at 6:11 PM on July 31, 2001
Next thing you know, they'll ban Netscape browsers and require MSN Explorer?
Netscape have long since banned themselves, as far as I'm concerned...
posted by DogLink at 6:14 PM on July 31, 2001
Netscape have long since banned themselves, as far as I'm concerned...
posted by DogLink at 6:14 PM on July 31, 2001
Is Microsoft's SPA protocol closed? I can't find documentation about it anywhere.
posted by waxpancake at 6:48 PM on July 31, 2001
posted by waxpancake at 6:48 PM on July 31, 2001
seeing as no one's mentioned it, there's mozilla's email client. although i haven't really tried it yet (sold my soul to outlook xp), i use mozilla for browsing about 50% of the time, and am quite chuffed with it.
with msn, can you set up mail forwarding? why not just have it all forwarding to another account that you can happily use anything with.
posted by titboy at 2:18 AM on August 1, 2001
with msn, can you set up mail forwarding? why not just have it all forwarding to another account that you can happily use anything with.
posted by titboy at 2:18 AM on August 1, 2001
Been using the Moz mail client for about a month now and it performs quite well. There are a few things I'd like (spellchecker fer instance) but I'm kinda hoping those roll out with the NS 6.1 final release. When it comes to Newsgroups though, Moz is heads and shoulders above Outlook (Express), neither of which seem particularly adept at threading properly.
posted by BoyWithFez at 1:55 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by BoyWithFez at 1:55 AM on August 2, 2001
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
The only option is to either reconfigure my mail server to bind SMTP to a port besides 25 (since MSN is blocking all access to port 25 for their users), create an account on a service like Mochamail (which offers SMTP access on a non-standard port), or have her switch to Outlook Express. (She's locked into a 3 year contract with MSN.)
Anyway, I'm proud that I beat Slashdot or the mainstream media to the story.
posted by waxpancake at 11:16 AM on July 31, 2001