"[T]he most important decisions you make are not the things you do – but the things that you decide not to do."
October 15, 2010 1:31 AM Subscribe
"He’s a minimalist and constantly reducing things to their simplest level. It’s not simplistic. It’s simplified. Steve is a systems designer. He simplifies complexity." John Sculley On Steve Jobs, The Full Interview [via]
Jobs is a douchebag. Abusing the legal system by suing your competitors over bogus software patents* does make the world simpler: it makes innovation impossible, so you can keep shoveling out the same crap without changing it.
Also, Isn't Sculley the guy who fired Jobs from Apple?
*all software patents
posted by delmoi at 1:51 AM on October 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
Also, Isn't Sculley the guy who fired Jobs from Apple?
This garbage should stay on Cult Of Mac, and not pollute the Blue.heh, I didn't notice this was actually linked on a site literally called "Cult Of Mac"
*all software patents
posted by delmoi at 1:51 AM on October 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
This isn't an interview.
This interview is with a primary source, someone who was a major part of 1980s and 90s computing history. Can you please go troll some other thread, kafziel?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:09 AM on October 15, 2010 [8 favorites]
This interview is with a primary source, someone who was a major part of 1980s and 90s computing history. Can you please go troll some other thread, kafziel?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:09 AM on October 15, 2010 [8 favorites]
Interesting interview and worth a read.
Of course this thread is going to add yet more fuel to my YOU FUCKING NERDS SHOULD JUST PICK A SPORT AND A TEAM AND GET ALL ANGRY ABOUT THAT RATHER THAN TURN EVERY COMPUTER CONVERSATION INTO THE SAME theory but hey, it's Friday...
posted by i_cola at 2:48 AM on October 15, 2010 [10 favorites]
Of course this thread is going to add yet more fuel to my YOU FUCKING NERDS SHOULD JUST PICK A SPORT AND A TEAM AND GET ALL ANGRY ABOUT THAT RATHER THAN TURN EVERY COMPUTER CONVERSATION INTO THE SAME theory but hey, it's Friday...
posted by i_cola at 2:48 AM on October 15, 2010 [10 favorites]
While I found this an interesting interview, I don't know that I'd call pointing out that Sculley engages in a little revisionist tech history "trolling". The Apple II was by no means the first personal computer housed in plastic.
Admittedly, my favorite bit occurs in the comments:
And I know there are people that STILL use their Newtons! I’m not sure if there are any Amiga users still out there.
posted by JaredSeth at 3:08 AM on October 15, 2010
Admittedly, my favorite bit occurs in the comments:
And I know there are people that STILL use their Newtons! I’m not sure if there are any Amiga users still out there.
posted by JaredSeth at 3:08 AM on October 15, 2010
Oh and that plastic housing thing is not the only example from the article but I know I'd rather this didn't turn into one great big derail.
posted by JaredSeth at 3:11 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by JaredSeth at 3:11 AM on October 15, 2010
What's so exciting about a plastic housing anyway? Isn't metal both more durable and easier to recycle? Cheaper maybe, I'll give you that.
The entire piece has my Interview Subject Credibility meter swinging crazily between Mind-Controlled Drone and Flamebait.
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:34 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
The entire piece has my Interview Subject Credibility meter swinging crazily between Mind-Controlled Drone and Flamebait.
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:34 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Sculley looking back with so much unadulterated admiration after having had an acrimonious time with Jobs back then makes me wonder about Jobs health.
It sounds like a eulogy.
Awesome read btw.
posted by joost de vries at 3:51 AM on October 15, 2010
It sounds like a eulogy.
Awesome read btw.
posted by joost de vries at 3:51 AM on October 15, 2010
Also it's an awesome read because a lot of what Jobs has pulled off went against a lot of accepted wisdom in strategic management. *) Succeeding in saturated markets with a high value high cost product f.i. I'm thinking of the mp3 player and mobile phone market obviously.
And I gather Sculley was back then the prince of conventional wisdom on how to compete in tech.
So it's interesting to see how he looks back on his own impressions there.
*)Strategic management provides Jack Donnaghy in 30 Rock with his typical CEO vocabulary of vertical integration etc
posted by joost de vries at 4:09 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
And I gather Sculley was back then the prince of conventional wisdom on how to compete in tech.
So it's interesting to see how he looks back on his own impressions there.
*)Strategic management provides Jack Donnaghy in 30 Rock with his typical CEO vocabulary of vertical integration etc
posted by joost de vries at 4:09 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
It sounds like a eulogy.
All the references being phrased in past tense through the whole thing is certainly odd, but to Sculley, I guess the whole endeavor is past tense.
posted by Devils Rancher at 4:45 AM on October 15, 2010
All the references being phrased in past tense through the whole thing is certainly odd, but to Sculley, I guess the whole endeavor is past tense.
posted by Devils Rancher at 4:45 AM on October 15, 2010
I didn't refer to the past tense. It's that I read a lot of admiration in the interview. And it's hardly about Sculley himself.
In my experience people let go of strife 'when the race is run' because somebody has died or is about to.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
posted by joost de vries at 4:48 AM on October 15, 2010
In my experience people let go of strife 'when the race is run' because somebody has died or is about to.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
posted by joost de vries at 4:48 AM on October 15, 2010
Based on the first part of the interview, I agree with kafziel. To say that in the early 80s computers were divided into business machines and games machines, and Steve Jobs single-handedly invented the idea of the consumer computer, is just ridiculous.
posted by sleepcrime at 5:07 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by sleepcrime at 5:07 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
So, how about Verizon selling iPads, huh?
posted by nomadicink at 5:27 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by nomadicink at 5:27 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Interesting quotes:
"Apple is not really a technology company. Apple is really a design company. If you look at the iPod, you will see that many of the technologies that are in the iPod are ones that Apple bought from other people and put together. Even when Apple created Macintosh, all the ideas came out of Xerox and Apple recruited some of the key people out of Xerox."posted by nomadicink at 6:15 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
....
"Looking back, it was a big mistake that I was ever hired as CEO. I was not the first choice that Steve wanted to be the CEO. He was the first choice, but the board wasn’t prepared to make him CEO when he was 25, 26 years old."
.....
"I made two really dumb mistakes that I really regret because I think they would have made a difference to Apple. One was when we are at the end of the life of the Motorola processor… we took two of our best technologists and put them on a team to go look and recommend what we ought to do.
They came back and they said it doesn’t make any difference which RISC architecture you pick, just pick the one that you think you can get the best business deal with. But don’t use CISC. SISC is complex instructions set. RISC is reduced instruction set.
So Intel lobbied heavily to get us to stay with them… (but) we went with IBM and Motorola with the PowerPC. And that was a terrible decision in hindsight. If we could have worked with Intel, we would have gotten onto a more commoditized component platform for Apple, which would have made a huge difference for Apple during the 1990s. In the 1990s, the processors were getting powerful enough that you could run all of your technology and software, and that’s when Microsoft took off with their Windows 3.1.
Prior to that you had to do it in software and hardware, the way Apple did. When the processors became powerful enough, it just became a commodity and the software can handle all those subroutines we had to do in hardware.
So we totally missed the boat. Intel would spend 11 billion dollars and evolve the Intel processor to do graphics… and it was a terrible technical decision. I wasn’t technically qualified, unfortunately, so I went along with the recommendation.
The other even bigger failure on my part was if I had thought about it better I should have gone back to Steve.
I wanted to leave Apple. At the end of 10 years, I didn’t want to stay any longer. I wanted to go back to the east coast. I told the board I wanted to leave and IBM was trying to recruit me at the time. They asked me to stay. I stayed and then they later fired me. I really didn’t want to be there any longer.
The board decided that we ought to sell Apple. So I was given the assignment to go off and try to sell Apple in 1993. So I went off and tried to sell it to AT&T to IBM and other people. We couldn’t get anyone who wanted to buy it. They thought it was just too high risk because Microsoft and Intel were doing well then. But if I had any sense, I would have said: “Why don’t we go back to the guy who created the whole thing and understands it. Why don’t we go back and hire Steve to come back and run the company?”"
...
"I remember one of the things we talked about, Steve used to ask me: “How did Pepsi get such great advertising?” He asked if it was the agencies that you picked? And I said what it really is. First of all you have to have an exciting product and you have to be able to present it as an opportunity to do bold advertising.
But great advertising comes from great clients. The best creative people want to work for the best clients. If you are a client who doesn’t appreciate great work, or a client who won’t take risks and try new stuff, or a client who can’t get excited about the creative, then you’re the wrong kind of client.
Most big companies delegate it way down in the organization. The CEO rarely knows anything about the advertising except when it’s presented, when it’s all done. That’s not how we did it at Pepsi, not how we did it at Apple, and I’m sure it’s not how Steve does it now. He always adamantly involved in the advertising, the design and everything."
...
"He always looked at things from the perspective of what was the user’s experience going to be? But unlike a lot of people in product marketing in those days, who would go out and do consumer testing, asking people, “What did they want?” Steve didn’t believe in that.
He said, “How can I possibly ask somebody what a graphics-based computer ought to be when they have no idea what a graphic based computer is? No one has ever seen one before.” He believed that showing someone a calculator, for example, would not give them any indication as to where the computer was going to go because it was just too big a leap."
...
Q: Where did he get the idea for controlling the whole widget? The idea to be in charge of everything, the whole system?
Sculley: Steve believed that if you opened the system up people would start to make little changes and those changes would be compromises in the experience and he would not be able to deliver the kind of experience that he wanted.
I'd like to understand how fusing the keyboard and the processor is simplifying. It's a plug you don't have to plug in, and a big damn thing you have to have sitting on your desk behind your keyboard whether that works for you or not.
The line that put me in Kafziel's camp was this one: "The first thing he did with his was take it apart and he looked at every single part. How the fit and finish was done, how it was built." I'm not sure this is true, but it's almost completely contrary to the portrait of Jobs that we were painted prior to this line. It almost reads like Sculley went through The Art of Thinking going, "OK, let's see, I've got Idealist, Synthesist, Pragmatist.... Hey, do I have anything for analyst?" I mean if Jobs cares deeply about streamlined industrial processes. Uh, and the user experience. And how the motor is attached to the case of the tape player.
If you care deeply about everything, you don't care deeply about anything. (Or there are more hours in your day than everyone else gets.)
I'm not sure if Sculley is trying to make Jobs out to be all things to all people, or if Jobs has become all things to Sculley.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:18 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
The line that put me in Kafziel's camp was this one: "The first thing he did with his was take it apart and he looked at every single part. How the fit and finish was done, how it was built." I'm not sure this is true, but it's almost completely contrary to the portrait of Jobs that we were painted prior to this line. It almost reads like Sculley went through The Art of Thinking going, "OK, let's see, I've got Idealist, Synthesist, Pragmatist.... Hey, do I have anything for analyst?" I mean if Jobs cares deeply about streamlined industrial processes. Uh, and the user experience. And how the motor is attached to the case of the tape player.
If you care deeply about everything, you don't care deeply about anything. (Or there are more hours in your day than everyone else gets.)
I'm not sure if Sculley is trying to make Jobs out to be all things to all people, or if Jobs has become all things to Sculley.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:18 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you care deeply about everything, you don't care deeply about anything.
Grandpa Jobs loves us so much, he wants to make sure love is baked into every delicious cookie that is made for us!
posted by nomadicink at 6:23 AM on October 15, 2010
Grandpa Jobs loves us so much, he wants to make sure love is baked into every delicious cookie that is made for us!
posted by nomadicink at 6:23 AM on October 15, 2010
heh, the primary source... the Godhead...
More the demiurge, surely?
Hagiography rather than interview I thought, but the marketing stuff was interesting.
The video of the old Mac production line was pretty cool; what was,presumably, the cutting edge of 80s production tech (and fashion).
posted by SyntacticSugar at 6:52 AM on October 15, 2010
More the demiurge, surely?
Hagiography rather than interview I thought, but the marketing stuff was interesting.
The video of the old Mac production line was pretty cool; what was,presumably, the cutting edge of 80s production tech (and fashion).
posted by SyntacticSugar at 6:52 AM on October 15, 2010
Definatly an interesting read though, if you keep the weird slanting in mind.
posted by Artw at 6:54 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:54 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sculley is a man who claimed to have conceived of the invar shadow mask technology as a child (as per his puff-laden autobiography), and was last publicly seen at the helm of the sinking ship formerly known as Live Picture. I take what comes out of his mouth with a salt lick.
posted by dbiedny at 7:07 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by dbiedny at 7:07 AM on October 15, 2010
I just realized why I dislike Apple. It's this:
Steve believed that if you opened the system up people would start to make little changes and those changes would be compromises in the experience and he would not be able to deliver the kind of experience that he wanted.
Apple believes in this perfect crystalline user experience and has build this vast and rigidly enforced axiomatic system around it. But the idea is so fundamentally flawed that it walks a fine line between hubris and psychosis. Has Jobs ever run a mass spectrometer? Cobbled together a control system for a CNC mill? Hacked the OS of his Honda Insight in real time? Or any of a million other weird things that people do with computers? Of course not. Nobody has.
So if you buy whatever apple is selling and your idea of the platonic digital consumer experience is not Steve Jobs idea of the platonic digital consumer experience, you are somewhere between "Sucks to be you" and "Die heretic" in the eyes of Apple.
The Apple vs. PC debate is the conflict between the empirical and the axiomatic world view.
If there isn't a D&D alignment chart for this, I'm sad.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:08 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Steve believed that if you opened the system up people would start to make little changes and those changes would be compromises in the experience and he would not be able to deliver the kind of experience that he wanted.
Apple believes in this perfect crystalline user experience and has build this vast and rigidly enforced axiomatic system around it. But the idea is so fundamentally flawed that it walks a fine line between hubris and psychosis. Has Jobs ever run a mass spectrometer? Cobbled together a control system for a CNC mill? Hacked the OS of his Honda Insight in real time? Or any of a million other weird things that people do with computers? Of course not. Nobody has.
So if you buy whatever apple is selling and your idea of the platonic digital consumer experience is not Steve Jobs idea of the platonic digital consumer experience, you are somewhere between "Sucks to be you" and "Die heretic" in the eyes of Apple.
The Apple vs. PC debate is the conflict between the empirical and the axiomatic world view.
If there isn't a D&D alignment chart for this, I'm sad.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:08 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
MeFi's Knee Jerk Anti-Jobs Anti-Apple Committee is in fine fettle, I see. We can debate about what amount of credit he deserves, or precisely how big a jerk he is. But without him we wouldn't have the following:
Macintosh
Pixar
NeXT Cube
Mac OS X
iPod
iPhone
iPad
Sure, alternatives would have presented themselves, but few, if any, would have been as well designed.
posted by Scoo at 7:14 AM on October 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
Macintosh
Pixar
NeXT Cube
Mac OS X
iPod
iPhone
iPad
Sure, alternatives would have presented themselves, but few, if any, would have been as well designed.
posted by Scoo at 7:14 AM on October 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
Apple believes in this perfect crystalline user experience and has build this vast and rigidly enforced axiomatic system around it. But the idea is so fundamentally flawed that it walks a fine line between hubris and psychosis.
I know, right, iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad were such failures!
posted by nomadicink at 7:14 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
I know, right, iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad were such failures!
posted by nomadicink at 7:14 AM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
YOU FUCKING NERDS SHOULD JUST PICK A SPORT AND A TEAM AND GET ALL ANGRY ABOUT THAT RATHER THAN TURN EVERY COMPUTER CONVERSATION INTO THE SAME
How dare you limit the amount of things I can be all angry about!!!!!
I can hate on Apple, the Yankees, the suckitude of my Longhorns this year, and M. Night Shyamalan all at the same time.
GRARRR
posted by kmz at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
How dare you limit the amount of things I can be all angry about!!!!!
I can hate on Apple, the Yankees, the suckitude of my Longhorns this year, and M. Night Shyamalan all at the same time.
GRARRR
posted by kmz at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Can you please go troll some other thread
You know, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them a troll. I'm glad you posted it, because it's worth reading and I wouldn't have seen it otherwise, but Woz does get really short shrift in this.
I know, right, iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad were such failures!
I think you're misreading there a bit. They're great devices overall, and Apple definitely delivers a great user experience. But as a vision for how computing should work, it's definitely a bit too controlled from the top. It's great that we have Apple, but we wouldn't want to have only Apple.
posted by me & my monkey at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
You know, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them a troll. I'm glad you posted it, because it's worth reading and I wouldn't have seen it otherwise, but Woz does get really short shrift in this.
I know, right, iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad were such failures!
I think you're misreading there a bit. They're great devices overall, and Apple definitely delivers a great user experience. But as a vision for how computing should work, it's definitely a bit too controlled from the top. It's great that we have Apple, but we wouldn't want to have only Apple.
posted by me & my monkey at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
MeFi's Knee Jerk Anti-Jobs Anti-Apple Committee is in fine fettle, I see
I don't see all that much knee-jerking here. I'm a Mac user almost exclusively, and appreciate all the items on your list. That doesn't mean that Jobs doesn't have some serious blind spots, or isn't way, waaaay too narrow in some of his views, or prone to unpleasant business tactics (although there he's hardly alone in this field.
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2010
I don't see all that much knee-jerking here. I'm a Mac user almost exclusively, and appreciate all the items on your list. That doesn't mean that Jobs doesn't have some serious blind spots, or isn't way, waaaay too narrow in some of his views, or prone to unpleasant business tactics (although there he's hardly alone in this field.
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2010
I think you're misreading there a bit. They're great devices overall, and Apple definitely delivers a great user experience. But as a vision for how computing should work, it's definitely a bit too controlled from the top. It's great that we have Apple, but we wouldn't want to have only Apple.
Oh, I'd agree it doesn't have to be only vision, but a lot of times you hear from the tinkerers and hackers about how awful Apple is for having this specific vision. It's not so much a right or wrong, but rather a method that works for some people and doesn't for others. These sort of people seem to feel that having anything like Apple is a major affront to..something.
posted by nomadicink at 7:42 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh, I'd agree it doesn't have to be only vision, but a lot of times you hear from the tinkerers and hackers about how awful Apple is for having this specific vision. It's not so much a right or wrong, but rather a method that works for some people and doesn't for others. These sort of people seem to feel that having anything like Apple is a major affront to..something.
posted by nomadicink at 7:42 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
You know, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them a troll.
Quite true.
But leaping in with a first comment to denounce a post as "pollution" makes you a threadshitter.
posted by Joe Beese at 7:44 AM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
Quite true.
But leaping in with a first comment to denounce a post as "pollution" makes you a threadshitter.
posted by Joe Beese at 7:44 AM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
I know, right, iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad were such failures!
Obviously they're great mainstream consumer successes but I will never buy any Apple product again for exactly the reasons that Kid Charlemagne listed. If you want to do anything with or to the product that Apple thinks you shouldn't (like change the battery), you're out of luck.
posted by octothorpe at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2010
Obviously they're great mainstream consumer successes but I will never buy any Apple product again for exactly the reasons that Kid Charlemagne listed. If you want to do anything with or to the product that Apple thinks you shouldn't (like change the battery), you're out of luck.
posted by octothorpe at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2010
a lot of times you hear from the tinkerers and hackers about how awful Apple is for having this specific vision.
Apple does want everyone to buy into this vision. After all, that's what they're about - selling hardware. And if Apple products became the computing mainstream, that would be problematic for the tinkerers.
posted by me & my monkey at 7:48 AM on October 15, 2010
Apple does want everyone to buy into this vision. After all, that's what they're about - selling hardware. And if Apple products became the computing mainstream, that would be problematic for the tinkerers.
posted by me & my monkey at 7:48 AM on October 15, 2010
But leaping in with a first comment to denounce a post as "pollution" makes you a threadshitter.
How long is the appropriate waiting period? Three comments? Five? Enquiring minds want to know.
posted by me & my monkey at 7:51 AM on October 15, 2010
How long is the appropriate waiting period? Three comments? Five? Enquiring minds want to know.
posted by me & my monkey at 7:51 AM on October 15, 2010
Steve Wozniak is mentioned exactly once, in passing, during a question about HP.
That's the weirdest complaint about an interview titled "John Sculley on Steve Jobs"
This isn't an interview. This is a fluff piece at best, and rife with revisionist glorification. This garbage should stay on Cult Of Mac, and not pollute the Blue.
Yeah, how dare someone share links about a niche subject on Metafilter.
posted by nomadicink at 7:51 AM on October 15, 2010
That's the weirdest complaint about an interview titled "John Sculley on Steve Jobs"
This isn't an interview. This is a fluff piece at best, and rife with revisionist glorification. This garbage should stay on Cult Of Mac, and not pollute the Blue.
Yeah, how dare someone share links about a niche subject on Metafilter.
posted by nomadicink at 7:51 AM on October 15, 2010
Apple does want everyone to buy into this vision.
What a terrible desire for a company.
And if Apple products became the computing mainstream, that would be problematic for the tinkerers.
Don't know why, no one is preventing them from tinkering with other things. They can tinker over there, those who don't want to tinker can go over here. I see no reason for the tinkerers to inject themselves on what the non-tinkerers want or do.
posted by nomadicink at 7:55 AM on October 15, 2010
What a terrible desire for a company.
And if Apple products became the computing mainstream, that would be problematic for the tinkerers.
Don't know why, no one is preventing them from tinkering with other things. They can tinker over there, those who don't want to tinker can go over here. I see no reason for the tinkerers to inject themselves on what the non-tinkerers want or do.
posted by nomadicink at 7:55 AM on October 15, 2010
Not to address any current unhappiness about Apple's closed system policies, but the Apple ][ was one of the most open personal computers I can think of. They published the circuit diagrams and, I think, even the source code for the ROM.
They started as an open, hacker friendly company.
posted by zippy at 8:02 AM on October 15, 2010
They started as an open, hacker friendly company.
posted by zippy at 8:02 AM on October 15, 2010
I see no reason for the tinkerers to inject themselves on what the non-tinkerers want or do.
Funny, I haven't seen them blockading Apple Stores.
posted by me & my monkey at 8:03 AM on October 15, 2010
Funny, I haven't seen them blockading Apple Stores.
posted by me & my monkey at 8:03 AM on October 15, 2010
Is this Jennifer Anniston thirty years from now telling us what a wonderful boyfriend Brad Pitt was (and that no, contrary to everything you've heard she broke his heart)?
posted by JaredSeth at 8:08 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by JaredSeth at 8:08 AM on October 15, 2010
Steve Wozniak is mentioned exactly once, in passing, during a question about HP.
That's the weirdest complaint about an interview titled "John Sculley on Steve Jobs"
Not really, no. They seem to be re-writing history a bit, with Jobs taking credit for (among other things,) accomplishments he made with Wozniak.
The whole 'Jobs transformed the computer into a consumer commodity' thing is not entirely accurate. Several companies were marketing computers to the consumer market at the same time as Apple in the 1970's, including Radio Shack with TRS-80's, Commodore with PET, Texas Instruments with their TI-99, and Atari with the 400 and 800. The early 80's saw the Commodore Vic-20 and then the IBM-PC -- the latter was a response to the Apple ][.
Jobs took the personal computer and make it more accessible to consumers through a GUI interface -- the LISA and the Macintosh. But people were using TRS-80's and PET computers at home for a lot more than games before he did so.
posted by zarq at 8:21 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
That's the weirdest complaint about an interview titled "John Sculley on Steve Jobs"
Not really, no. They seem to be re-writing history a bit, with Jobs taking credit for (among other things,) accomplishments he made with Wozniak.
The whole 'Jobs transformed the computer into a consumer commodity' thing is not entirely accurate. Several companies were marketing computers to the consumer market at the same time as Apple in the 1970's, including Radio Shack with TRS-80's, Commodore with PET, Texas Instruments with their TI-99, and Atari with the 400 and 800. The early 80's saw the Commodore Vic-20 and then the IBM-PC -- the latter was a response to the Apple ][.
Jobs took the personal computer and make it more accessible to consumers through a GUI interface -- the LISA and the Macintosh. But people were using TRS-80's and PET computers at home for a lot more than games before he did so.
posted by zarq at 8:21 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
So if you buy whatever apple is selling and your idea of the platonic digital consumer experience is not Steve Jobs idea of the platonic digital consumer experience, you are somewhere between "Sucks to be you" and "Die heretic" in the eyes of Apple.
And yet, OS X ships with a half-dozen scripting languages, X-Windows, GCC, and an IDE that gives you full support for their libraries. People have been tinkering with Apple computers since they've started building computers, and often using Apple-created tools to do it.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:31 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
And yet, OS X ships with a half-dozen scripting languages, X-Windows, GCC, and an IDE that gives you full support for their libraries. People have been tinkering with Apple computers since they've started building computers, and often using Apple-created tools to do it.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:31 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
They seem to be re-writing history a bit, with Jobs taking credit for (among other things,) accomplishments he made with Wozniak.
Ahem: "Jobs took the personal computer and make it more accessible to consumers through a GUI interface -- the LISA and the Macintosh. " You're doing it too! :P
It's important to remember that this John Scullye remembering things and as he admits, he didn't know much about computers, so I'm not sure why his statements about computing history are being taking as attacks of some sort, particularly since they're a minor part of the interview.
Funny, I haven't seen them blockading Apple Stores.
Oh they're planning it, you know how they are.
Not that I ever claimed they were blockading Apple Stores (mmm, straw person!), but rather injecting themselves and their world view and portraying it as the one, true way where it wasn't a concern. It's an interesting thing to see repeated over and over.
posted by nomadicink at 8:34 AM on October 15, 2010
Ahem: "Jobs took the personal computer and make it more accessible to consumers through a GUI interface -- the LISA and the Macintosh. " You're doing it too! :P
It's important to remember that this John Scullye remembering things and as he admits, he didn't know much about computers, so I'm not sure why his statements about computing history are being taking as attacks of some sort, particularly since they're a minor part of the interview.
Funny, I haven't seen them blockading Apple Stores.
Oh they're planning it, you know how they are.
Not that I ever claimed they were blockading Apple Stores (mmm, straw person!), but rather injecting themselves and their world view and portraying it as the one, true way where it wasn't a concern. It's an interesting thing to see repeated over and over.
posted by nomadicink at 8:34 AM on October 15, 2010
I see no reason for the tinkerers to inject themselves on what the non-tinkerers want or do.
You mean like quitting their job at HP, selling off their VW van for some capital and then trying to lock us into their idea of what a user experience should be like?
Amen Brother!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:39 AM on October 15, 2010
You mean like quitting their job at HP, selling off their VW van for some capital and then trying to lock us into their idea of what a user experience should be like?
Amen Brother!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:39 AM on October 15, 2010
I know, right, iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad were such failures!
What people are complaining about is not essential to their success. I had an iTouch and loved it, but when it came time to buy a smart phone, I eventually decided to get an Evo because of Jobs's megalomania regarding what is and isn't allowed on the platform.
It was a great decision. For example, I just found out that Full Tilt Poker is apparently releasing a client for the Android and not for Apple products. Why? Because Apple doesn't allow gambling apps. And I love me some online poker.
posted by callmejay at 9:06 AM on October 15, 2010
What people are complaining about is not essential to their success. I had an iTouch and loved it, but when it came time to buy a smart phone, I eventually decided to get an Evo because of Jobs's megalomania regarding what is and isn't allowed on the platform.
It was a great decision. For example, I just found out that Full Tilt Poker is apparently releasing a client for the Android and not for Apple products. Why? Because Apple doesn't allow gambling apps. And I love me some online poker.
posted by callmejay at 9:06 AM on October 15, 2010
Because Apple doesn't allow gambling apps.
(Or flash.)
posted by callmejay at 9:09 AM on October 15, 2010
(Or flash.)
posted by callmejay at 9:09 AM on October 15, 2010
I can't stop myself from going on a slight derail commenting on this quote (having lived through this type of thing too many times).
Ummm, hello ... failure to predict commoditization is a BUSINESS failure, not a technical one. How in the hell does that decision get bounced back to being a technical decision is beyond me.
posted by forforf at 9:09 AM on October 15, 2010
*They came back and they said it doesn’t make any difference which RISC architecture you pick, just pick the one that you think you can get the best business deal with. But don’t use CISC. SISC is complex instructions set. RISC is reduced instruction set.
So Intel lobbied heavily to get us to stay with them… (but) we went with IBM and Motorola with the PowerPC. And that was a terrible decision in hindsight. If we could have worked with Intel, we would have gotten onto a more commoditized component platform for Apple, which would have made a huge difference for Apple during the 1990s. In the 1990s, the processors were getting powerful enough that you could run all of your technology and software, and that’s when Microsoft took off with their Windows 3.1.
....
So we totally missed the boat. Intel would spend 11 billion dollars and evolve the Intel processor to do graphics… and it was a terrible technical decision. I wasn’t technically qualified, unfortunately, so I went along with the recommendation.
Ummm, hello ... failure to predict commoditization is a BUSINESS failure, not a technical one. How in the hell does that decision get bounced back to being a technical decision is beyond me.
posted by forforf at 9:09 AM on October 15, 2010
If you want to do anything with or to the product that Apple thinks you shouldn't (like change the battery), you're out of luck.
One of the joys of Boy Scouting was the yearly junk day held by a university staff member who collected broken electronics from across the department, and we spent a gleeful allnighter ripping apart everything from minicomputers to xerox machines (messy) to make breadboard contraptions. Just about everything we rendered down to parts came with a sticker that warned us where we were trespassing on the domain of the manufacturer's warranty and we should contact a licensed service representative.
As far as I know, and I've not found information otherwise, Apple's policy here is something that's fairly standard across the industry: open the case, break the warranty. If you want to tinker, you take responsibility for supporting and/or breaking it.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 9:16 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
One of the joys of Boy Scouting was the yearly junk day held by a university staff member who collected broken electronics from across the department, and we spent a gleeful allnighter ripping apart everything from minicomputers to xerox machines (messy) to make breadboard contraptions. Just about everything we rendered down to parts came with a sticker that warned us where we were trespassing on the domain of the manufacturer's warranty and we should contact a licensed service representative.
As far as I know, and I've not found information otherwise, Apple's policy here is something that's fairly standard across the industry: open the case, break the warranty. If you want to tinker, you take responsibility for supporting and/or breaking it.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 9:16 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
And just as a point of reference Google's Warranty information for the Nexus One has anti-tampering clauses.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 9:31 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by KirkJobSluder at 9:31 AM on October 15, 2010
They came back and they said it doesn’t make any difference which RISC architecture you pick, just pick the one that you think you can get the best business deal with. But don’t use CISC. SISC is complex instructions set. RISC is reduced instruction set.
What's really funny about this is how short sighted it is. As a rule of thumb, RISC is faster, but CISC can do more. CPUs these days take CISC instructions, and break them down into a RISC set, do the work, and then recompile the output.
It's similar to the way high level programming languages work; complex instructions are broken down by a compiler into a simpler set of instructions. So, it's not wholly untrue to say all processors are RISC processors now.
The great thing about this is how extensible it is - AMD's 64 bit extensions were the result of just this sort of processor design and led to them beating Intel to the punch on 64 bit computing.
It's sort of amusing that Apple missed the boat on this so thoroughly.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:35 AM on October 15, 2010
What's really funny about this is how short sighted it is. As a rule of thumb, RISC is faster, but CISC can do more. CPUs these days take CISC instructions, and break them down into a RISC set, do the work, and then recompile the output.
It's similar to the way high level programming languages work; complex instructions are broken down by a compiler into a simpler set of instructions. So, it's not wholly untrue to say all processors are RISC processors now.
The great thing about this is how extensible it is - AMD's 64 bit extensions were the result of just this sort of processor design and led to them beating Intel to the punch on 64 bit computing.
It's sort of amusing that Apple missed the boat on this so thoroughly.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:35 AM on October 15, 2010
the suckitude of my Longhorns this year,
Oh, my. In my house, the nuclear-level ennui has reduced us to charred husks of our former sports-selves. Please, sports g*d let Popovich know what the hell he's doing -- our sanity rests with the Spurs, I'm afraid.
typed on my iPad Ultra-Mega G5
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:42 AM on October 15, 2010
Oh, my. In my house, the nuclear-level ennui has reduced us to charred husks of our former sports-selves. Please, sports g*d let Popovich know what the hell he's doing -- our sanity rests with the Spurs, I'm afraid.
typed on my iPad Ultra-Mega G5
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:42 AM on October 15, 2010
What people are complaining about is not essential to their success.
Then what people are complaining about doesn't really matter.
posted by nomadicink at 9:44 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Then what people are complaining about doesn't really matter.
posted by nomadicink at 9:44 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ahem: "Jobs took the personal computer and make it more accessible to consumers through a GUI interface -- the LISA and the Macintosh. " You're doing it too! :P
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
You're right, of course. :D
It's important to remember that this John Scullye remembering things and as he admits, he didn't know much about computers, so I'm not sure why his statements about computing history are being taking as attacks of some sort, particularly since they're a minor part of the interview.
I'm not attacking him or the article. I'm making an observation.
posted by zarq at 9:48 AM on October 15, 2010
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
You're right, of course. :D
It's important to remember that this John Scullye remembering things and as he admits, he didn't know much about computers, so I'm not sure why his statements about computing history are being taking as attacks of some sort, particularly since they're a minor part of the interview.
I'm not attacking him or the article. I'm making an observation.
posted by zarq at 9:48 AM on October 15, 2010
the suckitude of my Longhorns this year
Is this a Vista joke?
posted by entropicamericana at 9:49 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is this a Vista joke?
posted by entropicamericana at 9:49 AM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm not attacking him or the article. I'm making an observation.
Well, how are we supposed to fight then?!
posted by nomadicink at 9:55 AM on October 15, 2010
Well, how are we supposed to fight then?!
posted by nomadicink at 9:55 AM on October 15, 2010
the suckitude of my Longhorns this year
After watching A&M also keep up with Arkansas, and after realizing how bad Texas Tech is this year, I can see the Longhorns losing to A&M + Nebraska. And, in my nightmares, Baylor, too. Baylor.
posted by seventyfour at 10:07 AM on October 15, 2010
After watching A&M also keep up with Arkansas, and after realizing how bad Texas Tech is this year, I can see the Longhorns losing to A&M + Nebraska. And, in my nightmares, Baylor, too. Baylor.
posted by seventyfour at 10:07 AM on October 15, 2010
As far as I know, and I've not found information otherwise, Apple's policy here is something that's fairly standard across the industry: open the case, break the warranty. If you want to tinker, you take responsibility for supporting and/or breaking it.
Changing batteries had never been a warranty-voiding exercise before though. (And sadly, I already see lots of other manufacturers jumping on that bandwagon. *sigh*)
Oh, my. In my house, the nuclear-level ennui has reduced us to charred husks of our former sports-selves.
It's total depression for me. My whole family bleeds burnt orange. (Except for my brother the Aggie. Traitor!) At least my wife's Horned Frogs are kicking ass and taking names.
posted by kmz at 10:11 AM on October 15, 2010
Changing batteries had never been a warranty-voiding exercise before though. (And sadly, I already see lots of other manufacturers jumping on that bandwagon. *sigh*)
Oh, my. In my house, the nuclear-level ennui has reduced us to charred husks of our former sports-selves.
It's total depression for me. My whole family bleeds burnt orange. (Except for my brother the Aggie. Traitor!) At least my wife's Horned Frogs are kicking ass and taking names.
posted by kmz at 10:11 AM on October 15, 2010
After watching A&M also keep up with Arkansas, and after realizing how bad Texas Tech is this year, I can see the Longhorns losing to A&M + Nebraska. And, in my nightmares, Baylor, too. Baylor.
Oh god don't even say that. I'm already counting Nebraska as a loss. A&M will be tough. Oklahoma State is formidable. Baylor won't be a gimme but I gotta believe we can beat them. It's already looking like a 7-5 kind of season. But losing to Baylor would just be... eyuch.
posted by kmz at 10:15 AM on October 15, 2010
Oh god don't even say that. I'm already counting Nebraska as a loss. A&M will be tough. Oklahoma State is formidable. Baylor won't be a gimme but I gotta believe we can beat them. It's already looking like a 7-5 kind of season. But losing to Baylor would just be... eyuch.
posted by kmz at 10:15 AM on October 15, 2010
I can see the Longhorns losing to A&M + Nebraska. And, in my nightmares, Baylor, too. Baylor.
After the Rice game, I pegged 'em to lose three this year. I'm revising that upwards to four, and I'm leaving town to go camping all weekend tonight. I just can't bear to watch Nebraska.
On the subject of sports
Oh, excellent. I've gotta send that to the wife -- thanks.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:25 AM on October 15, 2010
After the Rice game, I pegged 'em to lose three this year. I'm revising that upwards to four, and I'm leaving town to go camping all weekend tonight. I just can't bear to watch Nebraska.
On the subject of sports
Oh, excellent. I've gotta send that to the wife -- thanks.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:25 AM on October 15, 2010
I was hoping Blazecock Pileon wouldn't see this thread.
posted by sidereal at 10:41 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by sidereal at 10:41 AM on October 15, 2010
That would be difficult since it is his FPP.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:56 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 10:56 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well for God sakes, don't tell him it's his post!
posted by nomadicink at 10:57 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by nomadicink at 10:57 AM on October 15, 2010
My humor is too subtle :/
I prefer to think of your humor as simplified. Not simplistic. Simplified.
posted by seventyfour at 11:11 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I prefer to think of your humor as simplified. Not simplistic. Simplified.
posted by seventyfour at 11:11 AM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
HAHAHAHA
posted by nomadicink at 11:11 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by nomadicink at 11:11 AM on October 15, 2010
but rather injecting themselves and their world view and portraying it as the one, true way where it wasn't a concern.
So you just lumpld everything that might involve digital electronis and isn't Apple into a single world view and sumarrily dismissed it.
Which side was Apple supposed to be in that iconic 1984 Macintosh commercial, because I think I'm confused.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:14 AM on October 15, 2010
So you just lumpld everything that might involve digital electronis and isn't Apple into a single world view and sumarrily dismissed it.
Which side was Apple supposed to be in that iconic 1984 Macintosh commercial, because I think I'm confused.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:14 AM on October 15, 2010
So you just lumpld everything that might involve digital electronis and isn't Apple into a single world view and sumarrily dismissed it.
I kick unicorns too!
posted by nomadicink at 11:24 AM on October 15, 2010
I kick unicorns too!
posted by nomadicink at 11:24 AM on October 15, 2010
Which side was Apple supposed to be in that iconic 1984 Macintosh commercial,...
Oh no! Advertising exaggerates the merits of a product! However will we survive!
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:32 AM on October 15, 2010
Oh no! Advertising exaggerates the merits of a product! However will we survive!
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:32 AM on October 15, 2010
How long is the appropriate waiting period? Three comments? Five? Enquiring minds want to know.
How about, if you don't like post's subject matter, move on or go to Metatalk, or just find something else to do other than drop a steaming loaf in the thread, ffs.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:32 AM on October 15, 2010
How about, if you don't like post's subject matter, move on or go to Metatalk, or just find something else to do other than drop a steaming loaf in the thread, ffs.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:32 AM on October 15, 2010
Pogo_Fuzzybutt: What's really funny about this is how short sighted it is. As a rule of thumb, RISC is faster, but CISC can do more. CPUs these days take CISC instructions, and break them down into a RISC set, do the work, and then recompile the output.
What's really funny about that is that I remember John Dvorak saying something similar in the late '90s, and me being all skeptical because I was starting to think that everything John Dvorak said was exactly wrong.
posted by lodurr at 11:52 AM on October 15, 2010
What's really funny about that is that I remember John Dvorak saying something similar in the late '90s, and me being all skeptical because I was starting to think that everything John Dvorak said was exactly wrong.
posted by lodurr at 11:52 AM on October 15, 2010
How about, if you don't like post's subject matter, move on or go to Metatalk, or just find something else to do other than drop a steaming loaf in the thread, ffs.
The standards for identifying a "steaming loaf" seem to have diminished here to "words I don't want to read." I do like the post's subject matter, as I mentioned already. I just took issue with the characterization of kafziel's response that you and JB were making. ffs.
posted by me & my monkey at 11:53 AM on October 15, 2010
The standards for identifying a "steaming loaf" seem to have diminished here to "words I don't want to read." I do like the post's subject matter, as I mentioned already. I just took issue with the characterization of kafziel's response that you and JB were making. ffs.
posted by me & my monkey at 11:53 AM on October 15, 2010
you know, as Jobs-related threads go, this one was actually remarkably civil for about 6 or 7 hours.
posted by lodurr at 11:54 AM on October 15, 2010
posted by lodurr at 11:54 AM on October 15, 2010
My iPod thinks the cover of The Jam's greatest hits should have Eddie Veder on it.
posted by bardic at 8:42 PM on October 15, 2010
posted by bardic at 8:42 PM on October 15, 2010
How about, if you don't like post's subject matter, move on or go to Metatalk, or just find something else to do other than drop a steaming loaf in the thread, ffs.
Much like the posts deleted from the thread about the Nexus One for being (I quote) needlessly fighty shit, I guess. Then there was the argument on the Blackberry Playbook thread about the irksome heft of microSD cards, which felt somewhat like performance art.
It may be that Apple products, or any product against which Apple produces a competing product, or indeed anything related to Apple or to any company which competes with Apple, are simply not things that MetaFilter can ever discuss. If this isn't going to be the case we're probably all going to have to look at what counts as acceptable rhetorical technique when defending our platform choice.
posted by DNye at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Much like the posts deleted from the thread about the Nexus One for being (I quote) needlessly fighty shit, I guess. Then there was the argument on the Blackberry Playbook thread about the irksome heft of microSD cards, which felt somewhat like performance art.
It may be that Apple products, or any product against which Apple produces a competing product, or indeed anything related to Apple or to any company which competes with Apple, are simply not things that MetaFilter can ever discuss. If this isn't going to be the case we're probably all going to have to look at what counts as acceptable rhetorical technique when defending our platform choice.
posted by DNye at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Like most religions, people should learn to accept that there are other ways of worshipping and those that differ aren't wrong, just different.
Nerdrets syndrome, that certain tic which compels a certain segment of nerdom to dive in and excessively and negatively comment on OS platforms that don't fit their world view, is tiring and childish.
Do we still care about sweatshops?
Depends, what OS do they use?
posted by nomadicink at 9:03 AM on October 17, 2010
Nerdrets syndrome, that certain tic which compels a certain segment of nerdom to dive in and excessively and negatively comment on OS platforms that don't fit their world view, is tiring and childish.
Do we still care about sweatshops?
Depends, what OS do they use?
posted by nomadicink at 9:03 AM on October 17, 2010
What's really funny about that is that I remember John Dvorak saying something similar in the late '90s, and me being all skeptical because I was starting to think that everything John Dvorak said was exactly wrong.
Throw the volume of shit that he and his ilk do at the wall and eventually something will be vague and generic enough to be interpreted as sticking to the wall.
posted by theclaw at 10:16 AM on October 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Throw the volume of shit that he and his ilk do at the wall and eventually something will be vague and generic enough to be interpreted as sticking to the wall.
posted by theclaw at 10:16 AM on October 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, how are we supposed to fight then?
By comparing equipment, naturally.
posted by zarq at 5:47 AM on October 18, 2010
By comparing equipment, naturally.
posted by zarq at 5:47 AM on October 18, 2010
Like most religions, people should learn to accept that there are other ways of worshipping and those that differ aren't wrong, just different.Nerdrets syndrome, that certain tic which compels a certain segment of nerdom to dive in and excessively and negatively comment on OS platforms that don't fit their world view, is tiring and childish.
I agree. Is that what's happened here, though?
Interestingly enough, I encountered a maddening error in Mac OS last week. I had just begun renaming / adding extensions to several hundred previously-unattributed files, thereby associating them with a program in the Finder, when my keyboard stopped working. Mouse still worked. Keyboard worked in other programs, but not in Finder. I deleted preference files, swapped keyboards and restarted. Voila, working again. Then went back to renaming and it happened again.
This went on for a good 30+ minutes until I did a net search to see if I could figure out what was going on. Turns out it's a known-to-Apple, replicatable error that's been around for years, and.a number of versions of Mac OS. I guess fixing it's not high on the ol' priority list. (After all, how often are you going to need to manually add extensions to multiple files by hand?
I had to restart the finder every time it happened. Added hours of unnecessary work to the project.
Every OS has its advantages and disadvantages. Our personal experiences with them shape our impressions.
posted by zarq at 6:03 AM on October 18, 2010
I agree. Is that what's happened here, though?
Interestingly enough, I encountered a maddening error in Mac OS last week. I had just begun renaming / adding extensions to several hundred previously-unattributed files, thereby associating them with a program in the Finder, when my keyboard stopped working. Mouse still worked. Keyboard worked in other programs, but not in Finder. I deleted preference files, swapped keyboards and restarted. Voila, working again. Then went back to renaming and it happened again.
This went on for a good 30+ minutes until I did a net search to see if I could figure out what was going on. Turns out it's a known-to-Apple, replicatable error that's been around for years, and.a number of versions of Mac OS. I guess fixing it's not high on the ol' priority list. (After all, how often are you going to need to manually add extensions to multiple files by hand?
I had to restart the finder every time it happened. Added hours of unnecessary work to the project.
Every OS has its advantages and disadvantages. Our personal experiences with them shape our impressions.
posted by zarq at 6:03 AM on October 18, 2010
Yes, but your problem was due to not using false OSes, repeatedly. Come, come back to the one true OS and your problems will disappear!
posted by nomadicink at 6:17 AM on October 18, 2010
posted by nomadicink at 6:17 AM on October 18, 2010
Yes, but your problem was due to not using false OSes, repeatedly. Come, come back to the one true OS and your problems will disappear!
Yes, but whenever I hold it a particu-
Yes, but whenever I hold it a particu-
SIGNAL LOST.posted by zarq at 8:23 AM on October 18, 2010
The Legendary Chuck Peddle, Inventor of The Personal Computer
posted by Artw at 10:42 AM on October 19, 2010
posted by Artw at 10:42 AM on October 19, 2010
« Older A very Victorian attitude | Bring me the butter Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
This isn't an interview. This is a fluff piece at best, and rife with revisionist glorification. This garbage should stay on Cult Of Mac, and not pollute the Blue.
posted by kafziel at 1:42 AM on October 15, 2010 [20 favorites]