If you are not from Indiana, read carefully. You are about to learn a deeply held Hoosier secret.
December 3, 2010 11:49 AM   Subscribe

If you are from Indiana, you know what happens next. An argument can be made that this is Indiana's state food. It probably came from the culinary influence of this community. People in Illinois eat this too, but my Mother, who hails from the "City of Firsts," insists that they don't do it right. There are others who scoff and insist that Indiana's state food must be this. Some just insist that it should be made the Official State Sandwich. Either way, they're both delicious and are best followed by a ubiquitous Indiana dessert. Does it all sound simple and boring? You have no idea until you try it. Does it all sound horribly unhealthy? Well, you have to die of something and you might as well have a good meal first.
posted by snottydick (104 comments total) 15 users marked this as a favorite
 
As someone raised in Indiana, I approve of this. The only place to get a pork tenderloin around here is at the County fair, once a year; and I have to make my own sugar cream pie if I want some in Cleveland.
posted by sciurus at 11:53 AM on December 3, 2010


Chili? Cincinnati.

what
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:55 AM on December 3, 2010


What is that?
posted by nomadicink at 11:55 AM on December 3, 2010


Huh. I don't remember that at all from when I lived in South Bend.

Also, Kokomo (after I got over the confusion on why the hell the Beach Boys would sing about a city in the middle of Indiana) will forever be known to be me as "That Fucking City With A Gazillion Stoplights None of Which Are Synced To Each Other Smack Dab In the Middle of a Highway".
posted by kmz at 11:55 AM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


I worked two highly labor intensive jobs as a young man, first as a lumber yard warehouseman in Southern Indiana, then as a beer swamper in West Texas. Both jobs were fueled by cheap, convenience store procured pork tenderloin sandwiches. Until I moved to the east coast, I had no idea these weren't available pretty much everywhere.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:59 AM on December 3, 2010


Huh. Chicken and noodles didn't show up in this askme.
According to mefites:
INDIANA
Indiana: giant fried pork tenderloin, morel mushrooms
Chicagoland: Italian beef.The best Chicago pizza I've had is Giordano's.As for Chicago's legendary loaded hot dogs, I've never partaken.I'm too close to Chicago (and so influenced by Chicago) to know much about more rural areas of Indiana's food. (Wow, that sounded awkward, but you know what I mean.) However, here in NW Indiana, we have TONS of Greek restaurants. My favorite thing there is always the chicken-lemon-rice soup. Even Rachael Ray made a comment on how it's always available at Greek restaurants.
Indiana- pork tenderloin sandwich with ketchup- penny-an-ear corn, grilled- goat on a spit- a roast beef/turkey manhattan - open faced meat and mashed potato sandwich made with un-toasted white bread- Tomato and mayonnaise on white bread
Indiana: Pork tenderloin sandwich (the meat must be much larger than the bun); and for southern Indiana, fried biscuits with apple butter.
posted by zamboni at 12:03 PM on December 3, 2010


Crack Pie>Sugar Cream Pie

Just sayin' is all.

Chili? Cincinnati.

what


Chili is really popular in Ohio. In the south, they put weird things into it and it is not hot and is served over spaghetti (!), but in the far superior north, we like it hot.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 12:04 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


Yep, that's exactly what my mother makes for me and my siblings when we come home at Christmas. And it's because we ask her to do it. Hell, she even buys the noodles from the Amish lady up the road.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:04 PM on December 3, 2010


There is nothing "superior" about any portion of Ohio...just sayin'

huronbob, ann arbor MEEEEEchigan
posted by HuronBob at 12:06 PM on December 3, 2010 [4 favorites]


I'm from Hammond, and I've never heard of this... it sounds almost as good as the dumplings that my wife's family make... Ham stock brought to a boil, and a noodle/dumpling made out of eggs and flour...

Simplicity, and deliciousness all in one simple dish that tastes good hot or cold.

I have no problem bringing the eggs and flour in advance to any holiday meal. 8)
posted by MikeWarot at 12:06 PM on December 3, 2010


zamboni: I'm guessing those answers are Southern Indiana. Indiana is really two halves, the northern half which is more plain and typically "Midwestern" and the southern half, which is slightly Appalachian with pockets of weirdness (in a good way).
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:06 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


We call that a pork cutlet around here. You can get pork cutlet with broccoli rabe and sharp provolone at your better sandwich joints.
posted by fixedgear at 12:06 PM on December 3, 2010


My mother ran a tavern in Laotto, Indiana and she made pork tenderloins the size of a dinner plate. You had to fold it into quarters to fit it on a bun. I wish I had one RIGHT NOW!

Also loved chicken & noodles over smashed taters. Do the same thing with beef & noodles. Supermarkets in Indiana carry canned chicken and canned beef that is perfect for these dishes.

Time for a trip back home....
posted by Lone_Wolf at 12:10 PM on December 3, 2010


And oh, if we're talking about pork based Midwestern food, the first time I got a pork chop sandwich in Chicago from one of those streetside stands, I didn't realize that a genuine Chicago pork chop sandwich is bone-in. Ouch!
posted by kmz at 12:10 PM on December 3, 2010


I'm from Philadelphia, but was blessed with a Hoosier Mom who made the noodles from scratch for every holiday. Sugar cream pies happened at random, since they can be made from ingredients that anybody who cooks has on hand at any given time. Homemade tenderloins are a scarce treasure but I never visit Indiana without going out for tenderloins.
posted by snottydick at 12:10 PM on December 3, 2010


"Philadelphia for a grilled steak sandwich"

CHEESESTEAK. It is called a cheesesteak.
posted by edbles at 12:11 PM on December 3, 2010 [8 favorites]


I'm from a Southern Indiana (Daviess County) Amish/Mennonite background. Chicken and noodles over mashed potatoes was a family staple, and it's awesome. Mrs. Methods is a total convert as well. Her family is Polish-from-Pittsburgh, so she didn't know no noodles-and-potatoes and was a little skeptical. And any Mennonite could tell you what the staple dessert is. It's pie. What kind, you ask? My grandfather's oft-stated favorite kind -- "round".
posted by madmethods at 12:16 PM on December 3, 2010


We call that a pork cutlet around here. You can get pork cutlet with broccoli rabe and sharp provolone at your better sandwich joints.
posted by fixedgear at 12:06 PM on December 3 [+] [!]


Top shelf, but a completely different experience. Hoosier tenderloins are dressed more like burgers, and are mammoth razor-thin beauties that need to be folded over several times just to fit on the burger bun.
posted by snottydick at 12:16 PM on December 3, 2010 [3 favorites]


In SW Indiana, the state food is burgoo.
posted by paulina961 at 12:17 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


I've lived in Indiana my entire life and I've never heard of this "Sugar Cream Pie."

One of my favorite dishes that, unknown to me, apparently originated in Indianapolis is the Beef Manhattan. I thought it was a widely-known thing until I mentioned it to a friend who lived on the East coast, who thought I was making it up.
posted by Nedroid at 12:17 PM on December 3, 2010


Polish-from-Pittsburgh, so she didn't know no noodles-and-potatoes and was a little skeptical.

Wat?
posted by Threeway Handshake at 12:18 PM on December 3, 2010


I've lived in Indiana my entire life and I've never heard of this "Sugar Cream Pie."

Oh, you poor, poor thing.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:24 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


uh, I grew up in Indiana and have absolutely no idea about the cited dishes. Here, I'll arbitrarily declare the Hoosier state foods to be biscuits and gravy and persimmon pudding.
posted by mwhybark at 12:25 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


My entire extended family lives in Lake and Porter Counties, where my folks grew up. Pork tenderloin sandwiches weren't that common in that area (at least not in their families) -- too close to Chicago, would be my guess, because Italian beef is a HUGE deal.

Chicken and noodles is a staple, though. My aunt serves hers with mashed potatoes and corn, which they all kind of mush up together. My brother joined them once on chicken and noodles night and, appalled by the starch overload in an amused way, he suggested that they serve the whole thing on Texas Toast.

They were intrigued, then excited at the possibility, and I think they might actually be doing that now.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:26 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


Sugar pie is also made by French Canadians out west. I've always enjoyed it.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 12:26 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


Well I grew up in Indiana and agree with all this. In fact was passing through just before the holiday and stopped to buy a sugar cream pie and heard that the Wicks company may have gone out of business, makers of the official sugar cream pie. Had to make our own.
posted by mss at 12:27 PM on December 3, 2010


Chili is really popular in Ohio. In the south, they put weird things into it and it is not hot and is served over spaghetti (!), but in the far superior north, we like it hot.

Something to do with Greek immigrant restaurant-founders, I think, and the inclusion of non-standard chili spices -- sweet, a little cinnamon maybe.

Yes, on spaghetti, with optional chopped onions, completely concealed under a small hill of shredded cheddar cheese. Served with a dish of oyster crackers. I used to like it as a kid. (no onions though)

When I was really little I eschewed all of it except the oyster crackers and the cheese, which were served to me in two little dishes while everyone else got actual dinner.
posted by little cow make small moo at 12:27 PM on December 3, 2010


Cincinnati 'chili' is not chili. Carry on.
posted by norm at 12:28 PM on December 3, 2010 [7 favorites]


Oh man, my dad's in Indiana and I want to call him up and drop by for a sugar cream pie. Or two. Maybe two.
posted by sonika at 12:32 PM on December 3, 2010


Chili is really popular in Ohio. In the south, they put weird things into it and it is not hot and is served over spaghetti (!), but in the far superior north, we like it hot.
posted by Threeway Handshake


Never ever have I ate cold chili in Cincinnati. It is always hot. Maybe it is not picante, although it is certainly spicy. The spices are not weird unless you are all like, "ooh, cinnamon, get the hell away!"

Yup it is greek and armenian. and delish.

Cincinnati 'chili' is not chili. Carry on.
posted by norm at 3:28 PM on December 3


prescriptivists sit at the kids table and eat oyster cracker mush. nyah!
posted by toodleydoodley at 12:35 PM on December 3, 2010 [3 favorites]


In SW Indiana, the state food is burgoo.

Don't for get about: BRAAAAAAAAAINS
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:36 PM on December 3, 2010


It's funny, my mom always called her sugar cream pies "Cream Pies" which speaks to both her nutritional delusions (if you just refuse to admit that something has sugar in it, it's sugar-free), and her penchant for unintentional hilarity.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:38 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


The spices are not weird unless you are all like, "ooh, cinnamon, get the hell away!"

I stand by my comment.
posted by norm at 12:40 PM on December 3, 2010


My mother-in-law makes turkey and noodles, served over mashed potatoes. Mrs. Frogs' family is southwest Michigan / northern Indiana. Never thought the dish was weird, but didn't realize it was ubiquitous in the state with just a change of poultry.

They also make banana salad too, which is just not right. Bananas, sugar, vinegar, mayonnaise and lettuce. It does not necessarily taste bad but it certainly took me a few tries before I was able to eat it without being weirded out.
posted by caution live frogs at 12:41 PM on December 3, 2010


That is crazy pie.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:46 PM on December 3, 2010


Interesting! In PA Dutch country they call chicken and noodles "pot pie" (no crust!). And that sugar cream pie looks like the "butter tart" I had in Toronto. Anyone know if it's the same thing?
posted by JoanArkham at 12:46 PM on December 3, 2010


Huh, I've always lived in Indiana and never knew chicken and noodles on mashed potatoes was a regional thing. Next you'll tell me that there's something wrong with peanut butter and dill spear sandwiches.
posted by wabashbdw at 12:49 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


So I had to look up the state food of California, and it turns out we don't have one.

That's probably for the best-- it would be a fight between the avocado, tuna sashimi, and the Disneyland churro.
posted by mark242 at 12:51 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


So I had to look up the state food of California, and it turns out we don't have one.

Cocaine
posted by Threeway Handshake at 12:53 PM on December 3, 2010 [11 favorites]


The State Food of Rhode Island is hot wieners. Yes. Wieners. Specifically hot.

They're also called "New York System" or "Coney Island System."

Also: pizza strips.
posted by sonika at 12:56 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


kmz - you've been to Guelph, then. Stupid 'expressway' with lights at every cross street, none of which are synched, and are just far enough apart to get up to 80 klicks (the speed limit) before coming up to Yet Another Red Light.

As for the Chicken & Noodles - I was expecting a variation on that brothy chicken soup. This is so much richer and interesting. At least the homemade version in the post. I want to try it now.
posted by sandraregina at 12:57 PM on December 3, 2010


Joan> Butter cream is a little different from sugar pie in my experience. Sugar pie is glooier with a little bit of granularity, whereas butter cream is smooth. That may just be the quirks of labeling though. Also, I've seen butter cream throughout New York state, whereas I get the impression sugar pie is more of a regional / ethnic thing.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 12:58 PM on December 3, 2010


Yup. This is pure Hoosier eating.
My wife's family have mashed potatoes, chicken and noodles instead of blood. Honest. Even at Thanksgiving, they have to have their mashed potatoes and noodles (they substitute turkey for the chicken, just for the holiday)

Personally, I can't stand the mound-o-starch. But, I'm completely down with a good pork tenderloin. "Good" being the operative word. "Good" does not some flash-frozen from Sysco.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:10 PM on December 3, 2010


nd that sugar cream pie looks like the "butter tart" I had in Toronto. Anyone know if it's the same thing?

No, the filling in a Butter Tart is very runny and normally has raisins in it. The Canadian equivalent is just called Sugar Pie and it's big with the French Canadians. Still miss you Meme :(
posted by WinnipegDragon at 1:10 PM on December 3, 2010


I'm from Hammond, and I've never heard of this...

Holy shit, have come across two fellow region rats in one thread. I am amazed.

I'm also from Hammond (HHS '82) and have never, ever heard of this either. Hammond is Barton's Pizza with a White Castle, El Taco Real and gyros chaser. Fireworks for dessert.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 1:12 PM on December 3, 2010


Threeway Handshake: “Chili is really popular in Ohio. In the south, they put weird things into it and it is not hot and is served over spaghetti (!), but in the far superior north, we like it hot.”

Superior? You speak of a pie from New York City, which I believe has the world's worst food. I mean, sure, there's plenty of good food here and there, and New Yorkers love talking about that one place or this one restaurant or some such, but you can't really eat well in NYC unless you're incredibly streetsmart or you have millions of friends that are always telling you about awesome places. 97% of the restaurants in New York City (and across most of the North) are greasy, dirty, sad, and lit by fluorescent lights, and they make bad fried food cooked in dirty oil and slopped on a tray.

Whereas – I can't speak to the South, but in the West, I've generally found that most restaurants aren't that bad. Yeah, sure, in the smaller towns you won't get the excellent restaurants that a street guru might be able to locate in NYC or Boston, but most of the time, if you walk into a random restaurant, the food will be pretty good. This is particularly true in California, I find. Not necessarily distinctive, mind, but at least the food is okay pretty much anywhere you go.

But enough of my silly NYC hate.

I just came here to say that chili is green, and roasts for hours in sheet-metal roasters by the side of the road under big signs that say "HATCH." You take it home and cut it into strips and put it on everything and it makes life worth living.
posted by koeselitz at 1:18 PM on December 3, 2010 [3 favorites]


That isn't actually a pork tenderloin, is it? Pork tenderloins are shaped like a tenderloin (cylindrical), and you would never pound them flat or bread them. That would be like eating a pounded, chicken-fried filet mignon.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 1:25 PM on December 3, 2010


OMG, I just read this and people really are pounding and breading pork tenderloins. Maybe I should reserve judgement until I actually try one, but it seems like a waste of premium meat!
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 1:32 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


Maybe I should reserve judgement until I actually try one...
Yes. You really should.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:38 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


Funny coincidence, in the last month or so, I've started recreating Grandmother's dumpling-like noodles which outshine dried processed noodles by a mile. They are surprisingly easy to make.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 1:38 PM on December 3, 2010


Koeselitz: New York City, which I believe has the world's worst food.

You. Are. Crazy.

Sonica: They're also called "New York System" or "Coney Island System." "System"? Why? That's as weird as coastal Rhode Island's "cabinets."
posted by scratch at 1:44 PM on December 3, 2010


New York City, which I believe has the world's worst food.

You are a bad person who says bad things and should feel bad for your badness.
posted by elizardbits at 1:44 PM on December 3, 2010 [13 favorites]


I lived the first 18 years of my life in South Bend, and, like kmz, have never heard of any of these foods. Instead, I'd like to nominated Nelson's (formerly known as Golden Glow) Port-a-Pit chicken (the ribs are fantastic too).

And yes, after 5 years of lurking, I paid my $5 to say this. Port-a-Pit chicken is just that good.
posted by Dr. Eigenvariable at 1:48 PM on December 3, 2010 [5 favorites]


97% of the restaurants in New York City (and across most of the North) are greasy, dirty, sad, and lit by fluorescent lights, and they make bad fried food cooked in dirty oil and slopped on a tray.

Not sure if you are actually talking about Threeway Handshake's comment with the north and the south and all, but that was totes about northern Ohio v. southern Ohio.

Southern Ohio = weird but still tasty Greekish chili

Northern Ohio = apparently more normal hot chili, I don't actually know, I hear their river caught fire one time, who knows what-all they get up to.
posted by little cow make small moo at 1:50 PM on December 3, 2010 [5 favorites]


The cinnamon isn't the crazy thing in Cincinnati chili. The cocoa is the crazy thing in Cincinnati chili. And no, it's not analogous to mole, it's crazy.

(I was born in Cincinnati. I love that chili, but seriously, it's fucking crazy.)
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:58 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


Here in California I once witnessed a local Chili cook-off that was won by a couple large cans of Nalley's.
posted by circular at 2:01 PM on December 3, 2010


I just came here to say that chili is green, and roasts for hours in sheet-metal roasters by the side of the road under big signs that say "HATCH."

That's not chili. That's chile.
posted by Daily Alice at 2:02 PM on December 3, 2010 [6 favorites]


Oh God. Port-a-Pit chicken makes me go apeshit.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:05 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


In a good way.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:06 PM on December 3, 2010


Interesting! In PA Dutch country they call chicken and noodles "pot pie" (no crust!). And that sugar cream pie looks like the "butter tart" I had in Toronto. Anyone know if it's the same thing?
posted by JoanArkham at 12:46 PM on December 3 [+] [!]


I love Amish pot pie, but the noodles are square and it has vegetables to healthy it up. It's more soupy than chicken noodles, which has short fettucine-like noodles in its purest form.
posted by snottydick at 2:14 PM on December 3, 2010


mark242: "So I had to look up the state food of California, and it turns out we don't have one."

There are too many different food lobbies here. Can you imagine the nut growers up against the berry growers against the citrus against the wine against the avocado against the beef ranchers?

Poor Cali, with so much ag value generated per acre and fresh produce year-round, and no charming local shamebowl.*


*I nominate the Mission Style burrito as shamebowl equivalent
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 2:16 PM on December 3, 2010 [3 favorites]


I lived the first 18 years of my life in South Bend, and, like kmz, have never heard of any of these foods.

It seems that South Bend is as different from the rest of Indiana as the rest of Indiana seems to think it is. Keep keeping on with your regionally-distinct selves. You folks and the Hammond contingent are probably well aware of just how different your border areas are from the interior of the State (where men in sleeveless shirts suck chili dogs outside of Tastee Freezes).

Southern Indiana is really just Northern Kentucky, much like the Chicagoland portions of Northwestern Indiana aren't so Indiana-ish. Food culture does not strictly conform to state boundary lines, and I'm sure the Indianapolis folks have their own way of looking at things too.
posted by snottydick at 2:20 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


Well since someone is making noise about cheesesteaks and Philly, and someone brought up chili and Cincinatti, I'll go ahead and say, "Beignets and New Orleans? Feh."

There's one place that's famous as hell down here for their beignets and that is Cafe du Monde. Likewise, there's one place that no local that I know of goes to more than once a year, tops, and that is Cafe du Monde.

Technically there's a place out in Metairie named Morning Call and they also concentrate on beignets, so there're two joints down here that do it, but that's all I know of. It's rare to see beignets on a menu at a restaurant or cafe or whatever. Not unheard of, but rare. Oh and sure, so-and-so's grandmother used to make them, but ...

I guess what I'm getting at is that beignets are part of New Orleans' tourist culture, not local culture. I mean not in the way the article's author seems to believe.

You want to get into a food argument with a local? Tell them their favorite po-boy shop's fried shrimp po-boy sucks compared to your favorite po-boy shop's fried shrimp po-boy.
posted by komara at 2:21 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


(and by 'food argument' I mean 'fist fight')
posted by komara at 2:22 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


The cinnamon isn't the crazy thing in Cincinnati chili. The cocoa is the crazy thing in Cincinnati chili. And no, it's not analogous to mole, it's crazy.
No. The crazy thing about Cincinnati chili is the grease.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:23 PM on December 3, 2010


I went on a backpacking trip a couple of years ago with a guy whose favorite ah-hell-I'm-hungry-and-tired-and-I-don't-want-to-cook dinner was something he called MEAL (always said a tone that implied capital letters). He made instant mashed potatoes in his bowl, and then added ramen noodles and some more boiling water, and ta da! MEAL. He said he'd gotten the idea from another friend of his. I'd always assumed it was one of those strange things that people sometimes come up with in the backcountry, but now you are all making me wonder if that friend wasn't just a homesick Hoosier.
posted by colfax at 2:28 PM on December 3, 2010


Superior? You speak of a pie from New York City, which I believe has the world's worst food. I mean, sure, there's plenty of good food here and there, and New Yorkers love talking about that one place or this one restaurant or some such, but you can't really eat well in NYC unless you're incredibly streetsmart or you have millions of friends that are always telling you about awesome places. 97% of the restaurants in New York City (and across most of the North) are greasy, dirty, sad, and lit by fluorescent lights, and they make bad fried food cooked in dirty oil and slopped on a tray.

Is it opposite day and I forgot? Wut.
posted by sweetkid at 2:33 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


I am from Evansville, and if you'd asked me what the state food was, I'd probably have said either Una Pizza (which apparently is Missourian anyway) or Brain Sandwiches. I am actually somewhat impressed with the respectability of the actual food versus my options.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:48 PM on December 3, 2010


I nominate the Mission Style burrito as shamebowl equivalent

WHERE THE HELL IS THE SHAME??


Here in California I once witnessed a local Chili cook-off that was won by a couple large cans of Nalley's.

*thud* sigh...

those are my people
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:57 PM on December 3, 2010


Superior? You speak of a pie from New York City, which I believe has the world's worst food. I mean, sure, there's plenty of good food here and there, and New Yorkers love talking about that one place or this one restaurant or some such, but you can't really eat well in NYC unless you're incredibly streetsmart or you have millions of friends that are always telling you about awesome places. 97% of the restaurants in New York City (and across most of the North) are greasy, dirty, sad, and lit by fluorescent lights, and they make bad fried food cooked in dirty oil and slopped on a tray.

...I'm assuming you haven't actually been to Little Italy and Chinatown and therefore are living in a small and delusional world where coal-fired ovens do not make lovely crunchy and slightly burned crusts, covered in a sauce that was tomatoes a few hours ago and cheese that was grass two years ago;

in a world where there are no places where men who barely speak English use the recipes their fathers used, and if you know their codes can get plates of magic and horror (in places in Chinatown you can play the game 'does this look endocrine to you' if you know some Chinese);

elderly women cannot tell you how bad a man Mussolini was and why they left the home country to come here while spooning you a plate of gloriously majestic pasta in a bolognese sauce that makes you cry for joy (calling it 'noodles and gravy' as they do);

you can not find glorious pastries and desserts then walk two blocks to a slightly run-down ice cream store and get a two-scoop cone with two flavors that look alike but are totally different in all things (green tea and wasabi ice creams).

It is a small and strange and sad world, and I pity you for it.

Now, that said, being from New Jersey by birth, one of our big things is the so-called Texas hot dog, and its terrifying descendent, the ripper.

And finally to actually be on topic: wow, that chicken and noodles thing sounds pretty damn tasty, but I have no idea when I might get to Indiana to try some, or even where to go since it is apparently not a restaurant thing.
posted by mephron at 3:01 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


Superior? You speak of a pie from New York City, which I believe has the world's worst food. I mean, sure, there's plenty of good food here and there, and New Yorkers love talking about that one place or this one restaurant or some such, but you can't really eat well in NYC unless you're incredibly streetsmart or you have millions of friends that are always telling you about awesome places. 97% of the restaurants in New York City (and across most of the North) are greasy, dirty, sad, and lit by fluorescent lights, and they make bad fried food cooked in dirty oil and slopped on a tray.

I took this to mean that in a city so huge, with so many damn restaurants, everyone insists that there are only a few places that make a good X. Therefore, logic would lead one to believe that the vast majority of the restaurants in NYC are utter shit.
I think it might even have been meant to be funny.
But I laugh at the wrong things all the time anyway.
The Killing Fields? I ain't seen nothing funnier since Clown Parade.
posted by Seamus at 3:08 PM on December 3, 2010


komara: "Well since someone is making noise about cheesesteaks and Philly, and someone brought up chili and Cincinatti, I'll go ahead and say, "Beignets and New Orleans? Feh."

There's one place that's famous as hell down here for their beignets and that is Cafe du Monde. Likewise, there's one place that no local that I know of goes to more than once a year, tops, and that is Cafe du Monde.
---
You want to get into a food argument with a local? Tell them their favorite po-boy shop's fried shrimp po-boy sucks compared to your favorite po-boy shop's fried shrimp po-boy.
"

I disagree with your assertion that Cafe du Monde is the only place in the city that focuses on beignets, and offer as evidence Cafe Beignet. However, I would agree with you that beignets are a very rare thing for locals to decide to eat, unless taking a visitor around.

Speaking of food argument, I would have to go with debris po-boys as the fight-making thing. Mother's/Parkway/whatever the name is of the place that the Parasol's guy is at now. But for sure the quintessential New Orleans food is either a po-boy or maybe gumbo.

I'm hungry. Anyone want some calla cakes?
posted by Night_owl at 3:08 PM on December 3, 2010


Chicken and noodles over mashed potatoes is specific to Indiana? We had it all the time, growing up in NW Kansas. German families know their starch.
posted by rewil at 3:10 PM on December 3, 2010


No. The crazy thing about Cincinnati chili is the grease.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:23 PM on December 3 [+] [!] Other [3/3]: «≡·


I'm not able to parse this. Are you saying there's something wrong with a 1/8-inch layer of shining golden grease at the top and rim of your bowl of chili? I want to know what you think those oyster crackers are for?

/shakes head, returns to plate of five cheese coneys, triple mustard, no onions/

Dudes, while we're at it, Graeters or Aglamesis for dessert? Or should we just go to all-night Buskens on Edwards?
posted by toodleydoodley at 3:14 PM on December 3, 2010


I'm amused at some local cuisine names that don't fully describe the dish because all locals know what the name really means. Outsider can become perplexed when what they are served is not what they thought they ordered.

For example:

1) Indiana "chicken and noodles" doesn't mention the mashed potatoes.

2) Philadelphia "steak sandwich" is not made from steak but from some cut such as bottom round which is very thinly sliced before cooking. A common sign on a restaurant in Philly is something like "We Have Steaks" which of course means the non-steak steak sandwich.

3) Pittsburgh "[cooked meat] salad" is a salad to which meat such as steak or grilled chicken is added. However unmentioned is that it usually served over a pile of french fries and that "steak" may have the Philadelphia sense.

4) The first Indiana "pork sandwich" I ate was at semi-decrepit restaurant in the middle of nowhere Arkansas. From the name "pork sandwich" and the location I thought it would be pulled pork in BBQ sauce between bread.

5) A "plain quesadilla" in parts of LA and elsewhere is cheese in a tortilla (soft corn not wheat) with a smear of guacamole. A "[meat] quesadilla" also contains the quac.


Are there other examples of dish names with an actual composition that may surprise an outsider?
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 4:08 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


> I disagree with your assertion that Cafe du Monde is the only place in the city that focuses on beignets, and offer as evidence Cafe Beignet. However, I would agree with you that beignets are a very rare thing for locals to decide to eat, unless taking a visitor around.

Oh, man, Cafe Beignet. I've heard of that place but I couldn't even tell you where it is. Anyway, I did concede the existence of Morning Call in Metry so obviously I wasn't implying that there was only One Real Beignet Place, but you're right, I forgot about Cafe Beignet. Wherever it is.

As for po-boys, roast beef / debris is not my thing. I'll start rolling up my shirtsleeves if you don't concede that Domilise's has the best fried shrimp.
posted by komara at 4:13 PM on December 3, 2010


I just spent my first Thanksgiving away from Indiana and you all are making me miss it so much! Won't even get to be there for Christmas either.
posted by Phantomx at 4:15 PM on December 3, 2010


I'm from Kokomo, and I've never ever ever heard of this. I left in 1983 though, so maybe it just didn't have time to sink in.
posted by the dief at 4:18 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


I make chicken & noodles with mashed potatoes a couple of times a month. Here, on the east side of Indianapolis. Also, beef & noodles, served the same way. I don't make sugar cream pies anymore, though you can still buy them at MCL.

Man, I want a pork fritter now.
posted by headspace at 4:29 PM on December 3, 2010


Hi. My name is Kozad and I lived in Indiana for seven years. I did not notice a single piece of food in all those years that I had not had everywhere else in the country before.

Except maybe spudnuts, which according to a fifteen second Google search, are everywhere, too.
posted by kozad at 5:00 PM on December 3, 2010


It's pretty much true. Pretty much all the restaurants in NYC are run down shitholes populated exclusively by pimps, stung out junkies, and con men of lowest sort. The food is laced with d-con and those new arsenic based life forms NASA found. Seriously, do your selves a favor and stay away. We also have CHUDS
posted by Ad hominem at 5:12 PM on December 3, 2010 [4 favorites]


I've lived 45 years in Indiana (half north, half south) and I don't think I've seen chicken and noodles for almost 40 years when we used to get them at some smorgasbord-ish restaurant near Muncie. And what kind of pie?
I'm with mwhybark-- biscuits-n-gravy and persimmon pudding are much more definitive Hoosier fare to me. Interesting.
posted by Heretic at 5:18 PM on December 3, 2010


For the Purdue area of Indiana, at least, the Duane Purvis from XXX should be added to the list:

1/4 lb. of 100% ground sirloin served on a toasted sesame bun with melted cheese on top with lettuce, tomato, pickle, Spanish onion and French fries. Add thick creamy peanut butter on the lower deck and you're in for the touchdown!

Not unique to Indiana, either, but yummy nonetheless.
posted by BlooPen at 5:21 PM on December 3, 2010


headspace: "I make chicken & noodles with mashed potatoes a couple of times a month. Here, on the east side of Indianapolis. Also, beef & noodles, served the same way. I don't make sugar cream pies anymore, though you can still buy them at MCL.

Man, I want a pork fritter now
"

And I'm here to witness, brethren and sisters, that headspace does make the best chicken and noodles around, having had it handed down from her mother, her aunts, and her grandmother. It's got to have a genetic component.
posted by pjern at 5:37 PM on December 3, 2010


headspace: I'm coming over.
posted by Nedroid at 5:51 PM on December 3, 2010


I'm amused at some local cuisine names that don't fully describe the dish because all locals know what the name really means. Outsider can become perplexed when what they are served is not what they thought they ordered.
...
Are there other examples of dish names with an actual composition that may surprise an outsider?


You missed the classic one. From Wikipedia: "an egg cream is a beverage consisting of chocolate syrup, milk, and soda water". WTF?
posted by madmethods at 6:41 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm currently living in Bloomington Indiana which I'm sure people will tell me is not really Indiana. The chicken and noodles here are not really any different than those I have eaten in other states though. The plate sized pork tenderloin seems more like local food and the manhattan is good as well but I can't believe that nobody else makes them. I've kind of wondered what local food was out here. I'll have to look for that sugar pie.

Back in West Virginia the Colasessano's pepperoni roll with sauce and cheese and maybe Oliverio's peppers is unique and perfect. When I die I want to be buried with one in my hands and maybe two or three for the road. Italian food should be made by Italian people. Unfortunately I'm not one and my pepperoni rolls are never as good as back home.
posted by irisclara at 7:07 PM on December 3, 2010


mephron, you just made me so homesick...
posted by ltracey at 7:09 PM on December 3, 2010


kmz:
Huh. I don't remember that at all from when I lived in South Bend.


Plus-fucking-one. I am, however, thrilled to be insufficiently hoosier.
posted by paisley henosis at 7:31 PM on December 3, 2010


mwhybark: Here, I'll arbitrarily declare the Hoosier state foods to be biscuits and gravy

Blech! It's true, though.
posted by paisley henosis at 7:38 PM on December 3, 2010


this thread is making me hungry
posted by liza at 7:47 PM on December 3, 2010


Dr. Eigenvariable:
I lived the first 18 years of my life in South Bend, and, like kmz, have never heard of any of these foods. Instead, I'd like to nominated Nelson's (formerly known as Golden Glow) Port-a-Pit chicken (


YAAAYYYYY
posted by paisley henosis at 7:47 PM on December 3, 2010


Cincinnati 'chili' is not chili. Carry on.

True dat, norm. But it's a w e s o m e.

/ Bought me some Skyline brand canned chili.
// Need some fine-shredded mild cheddar.
/// Gots spaggheti already.
/\/ Oyster crackers optional.
\/ Hot sauce not.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:02 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


I am from Evansville, and if you'd asked me what the state food was, I'd probably have said either Una Pizza (which apparently is Missourian anyway) or Brain Sandwiches. I am actually somewhat impressed with the respectability of the actual food versus my options.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:48 PM on December 3 [+] [!]


I am also from Evansville and in fact I am the uncle of feloniousmonk and I can tell you that he is correct in that St. Louis pizza is the shit. I would pay double for my pizza here in Philly if somebody would make me one St. Louis style. once
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:25 PM on December 3, 2010


we have chicken and noodles in michigan - we have mashed potatoes in michigan - we do not slop them together because we have enough plates in michigan
posted by pyramid termite at 8:48 PM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]


I'm with you on that, IAmBroom. Skyline is one of my first stops every time I go to Ohio, and every time I return to Seattle it's with at least four cans of chili in my luggage. Several years ago Kroger's destroy-the-small-grocer campaign made its way through Seattle, and for a few months I could actually find canned Skyline chili on the shelf at one of their recently acquired stores. Oh happy day! But it didn't last long. I might have been the only person to actually buy it.

Something about the canned stuff just doesn't quite measure up to the restaurant version, though. So I started looking for knock-off recipes on the internet. I haven't found one that's an exact match, but this one is pretty close. Any recipe that calls for browning the ground beef in a skillet is straight out. It's imperative that the meat is boiled, to get that really fine consistency. That ought to really excite the "Cincinnati chili is not chili!" crowd (I'll grant you that it's more of a sauce than a chili, but boy is it delicious!). A bag of shredded cheese will work in a pinch, but to really recreate the "mound of cheese" experience you need a block of mild cheddar and a rotary grater. And don't forget to lightly oil the spaghetti after cooking it. Minced onions, a can of red beans, a bag of oyster crackers... heaven! I could swear they used to have Tabasco sauce on the tables in the restaurants, but I've been told I'm wrong about that.

Good gosh, I'm hungry now. I might have to break open the last can of Skyline in the pantry and schedule another trip to Ohio. Regrettably, I've never really experienced true Indiana chicken noodle or pork cuisine. I'm think I'm going to have to add that to the itinerary.
posted by Balonious Assault at 8:51 PM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]


I think I need to explain the RI weiners thing.

First, there are two types of NY System - which is actually only legal in three states, RI, MA and CT, and, oddly enough, not NY, which has terrible hot dogs.

This is because of the meat sauce.

Take dried beef, and grind it. This is sometimes known in other places as "chipped beef." Now, you stew it for a week in a butter broth with allspice, paprika, onion powder, garlic powder, cumin and black pepper, until the beef is soft and tender and intensely flavorful. This is god's own perfect hot dog condiment, and if the namby-pambies in 47 other states are to be believed, a "health hazard."

Now, you come to the decision. You have your classic weiner, which is a pork sausage with enough grain filler to where it tastes more like a pasta, and then you have your "gagger", which is a French-Canadian pork-and-veal sausage. I myself prefer a sleeve of gaggers.

A sleeve is a quantity expressed in how many buns the guy at the weiner shop can balance up his arm at once, to squirt on the mustard and ladle on the meat-sauce before sprinkling on fresh minced onion and celery salt.

Now, you may be wrinkling your nose in disgust. This is because you cannot smell it, and you cannot taste it. Picture in your mind the most perfect sausage-in-a-bun moment. The loaded chicago dog, the mustard-and-kraut dog from the street vendor, the Wisconsin Brat...

Cardboard. Lifeless. Tacky.

A decent NY System from RI is like the time when Anthrax said, "Hey, let's play with Public Enemy", only it's happening in your mouth. It's the Frank Miller Superman vs. Batman fight, only for your tongue instead of your eyes.

If that doesn't delight, there is Hewtin's - a truck vendor attached to a French restaurant famed for its charcuterie that serves the most refined sausage onna bun you're ever gonna have. There is also Spike's, which serves kosher dogs on crusty baguettes, loaded with your choice of a zillion fresh toppings, from swiss cheese and bacon to barbeque sauce and beans.

In a world full of sausages served on buns, Rhode Island really, really gets it right.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:05 PM on December 3, 2010 [6 favorites]


I got all excited when I read this, but perhaps this is not what I grew up eating in Michigan. My family is from the Northern Lower Peninsula - my mother's people (Germans and Poles) make chicken and noodles; my father's people (Quebecois) make glissons, or sliders. They are the very same thing and they are luscious.

Boil a chicken for several hours with water to cover, an onion, salt & pepper. At some point after the chicken has been cooked for a long time, and has been done already for hours, but before it begins to fall apart, take it out of the pot. At this point, things go downhill - cut the spent chicken into the usual pieces, dredge it in egg and flour, and fry it.

Don't strain the broth -- just keep it hot, at a slow boil.

Meanwhile, make a thick noodle batter from flour, eggs, and milk. Roll it out until it's thinner than a coin, and let it firm up on the counter under a tea towel for about a half hour, then cut it into squares. Drop the noodles into the boiling broth, and let them cook until they're done, about 45 minutes -- they should be firm, but cooked through, and not mush.

My family serves these with rolls, butter, and cooked corn, though if I ever suggested eating them over mashed potatoes, my mom would be all over it.

Damn, maybe that's what I should make for dinner tomorrow night.
posted by vjpdx at 11:14 PM on December 3, 2010


I'm from Indiana and this article is totally inaccurate for me. Then again, I live in the Chicagoland area of Indiana, perhaps that makes a difference.
posted by IndigoRain at 1:18 AM on December 4, 2010


Okay, I lived in Bloomington for a decade, and yeah, pork tenderloin, though that isn't really my kind of food. But I'm actually from Montreal, and to me tarte au sucre sure doesn't read as any kind of Hoosier specialty.

mwhybark is, of course, right about persimmon pudding. That stuff is delicious. Do they even make it anywhere else?
posted by tangerine at 1:38 AM on December 4, 2010


St. Louis style pizza is fairly ubiquitous in East Central Indiana under the guise of Pizza King.
posted by sciurus at 4:54 AM on December 4, 2010


In a world full of sausages served on buns, Rhode Island really, really gets it right.

My brain insists on reading this in Don LaFontaine's voice.
posted by hippybear at 8:58 AM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]


Dudes, while we're at it, Graeters or Aglamesis for dessert? Or should we just go to all-night Buskens on Edwards?


Aglamesis.

Graeter's is totally worthwhile, but if this is an I May Eat of One Ice Cream type of question: Aglamesis.
posted by little cow make small moo at 10:30 AM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]


2) Philadelphia "steak sandwich" is not made from steak but from some cut such as bottom round which is very thinly sliced before cooking. A common sign on a restaurant in Philly is something like "We Have Steaks" which of course means the non-steak steak sandwich.

Firstly, since when is bottom round not able to be cut into steaks? Maybe not great steaks, but steaks nonetheless. Secondly, it depends upon whose making it, but I've never heard of any top shelf place that uses bottom round. Mostly, the good ones are made with shaved rib-eye or chuck eye. Some places use shaved top round, which is what you might be thinking of.

You missed the classic one. From Wikipedia: "an egg cream is a beverage consisting of chocolate syrup, milk, and soda water". WTF?

There are several published 19th and early 20th Century recipes fountain beverages called egg creams that include both egg and cream. Expressing an opinion in favor of or in opposition to any of the theories relating to egg cream origins, however, is a great way to start a fight with an old-timey soda shop afficionado.
posted by snottydick at 4:10 PM on December 6, 2010


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