How to fly a P51-C Mustang
April 19, 2015 6:16 PM Subscribe
Three YT's showing how to fly a P-51C Mustang.
He sells Mustangs, and Mustang accessories.
posted by theodolite at 6:57 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 6:57 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
That was great. The best for me was about 2:30 into the third video when he was airborne and checking his instruments, then surprise, he's all set up for a low altitude flyby of the airfield. Everybody loves a show-off!
If there is a flight school that teaches student pilots to dogfight in Cessna 172's, I will sign up.
posted by peeedro at 7:03 PM on April 19, 2015
If there is a flight school that teaches student pilots to dogfight in Cessna 172's, I will sign up.
posted by peeedro at 7:03 PM on April 19, 2015
What I found interesting was the way he kept checking all his settings and gauges. It's obviously a standard routine he's learned, and he keeps doing it because he's hyper-careful.
Which is probably a good thing to be when you're flying any plane, but especially a classic like this one. Aircraft are relatively unforgiving of stupid mistakes.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 7:09 PM on April 19, 2015
Which is probably a good thing to be when you're flying any plane, but especially a classic like this one. Aircraft are relatively unforgiving of stupid mistakes.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 7:09 PM on April 19, 2015
"That's the bomb release, it's basically... uh, we don't use that."
posted by saturday_morning at 7:21 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 7:21 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
they say that newer sports cars play engine sounds through the speakers so the drivers get that true sports car experience
Ha! no car can hold a candle to this!
posted by rebent at 7:25 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ha! no car can hold a candle to this!
posted by rebent at 7:25 PM on April 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well, that was a dream come true (practically).
There are outfits, like this one, that let you fly in a P51. You can either fly in a modified P51 or in a training plane. My family and friends banded together to get me a ride as a birthday present. It was the most. . . intimate flying experience I've ever had, I felt truly connected with the plane. It made every plane ride since feel like a blimp with training wheels.
The pilot tried to tell me a few things about the plane but gave up when I spent the whole time laughing with glee, and did some hotdog things instead that I wasn't supposed to talk about afterwards. He might say to that to everyone, but whatever - pilots are the best!
posted by barchan at 7:27 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
There are outfits, like this one, that let you fly in a P51. You can either fly in a modified P51 or in a training plane. My family and friends banded together to get me a ride as a birthday present. It was the most. . . intimate flying experience I've ever had, I felt truly connected with the plane. It made every plane ride since feel like a blimp with training wheels.
The pilot tried to tell me a few things about the plane but gave up when I spent the whole time laughing with glee, and did some hotdog things instead that I wasn't supposed to talk about afterwards. He might say to that to everyone, but whatever - pilots are the best!
posted by barchan at 7:27 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
If I ever got Crazy Rich a P-51 would be the first thing I bought.
posted by Cyrano at 7:31 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Cyrano at 7:31 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Someone around here has what looks like an F4U. I bet that's fun to fly, too.
posted by ctmf at 7:39 PM on April 19, 2015
posted by ctmf at 7:39 PM on April 19, 2015
(A Corsair would be my second plane.)
posted by Cyrano at 7:48 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Cyrano at 7:48 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
My old man used to fly T-28's in the Navy back in the 70's. If he won the lottery, he'd be this guy.
posted by higginba at 8:04 PM on April 19, 2015
posted by higginba at 8:04 PM on April 19, 2015
Incidentally, there is a reason the pilot is so careful while flying this plane, these classic warplanes are extremely powerful and dangerous. Calling it unforgiving is insufficient. It will actively try to kill you if you don't pay attention to what you are doing. The torque from the (massive!) engine can be enough to twist you right into the ground during takeoff if you don't manage the throttle properly. Pilots die from trying to fly these things, and far too often it was because they had more money than sense or experience.
posted by insert.witticism.here at 8:36 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by insert.witticism.here at 8:36 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
The thing about fighter aircraft is that they are designed to be inherently unstable.
P-51's nice and all, but give me a Spit any day. Tally ho, chaps.
posted by dazed_one at 8:54 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
P-51's nice and all, but give me a Spit any day. Tally ho, chaps.
posted by dazed_one at 8:54 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
The amazing thing about the Udvar-Hazy Center Smithsonian Museum is you can get up and close to all the major fighters for the past 100 years, both sides of the fight. When you get to the WWII pairing of Mustang / Focke-Wulf, you realize how *tiny* they were, and riveted together pieces of sheetmetal and fabric around a big engine, and a few big nasty guns.
posted by nickggully at 9:41 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nickggully at 9:41 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
And then you see a P-47 Thunderbolt and you wonder how anything that big could be a fighter plane.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:56 PM on April 19, 2015
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:56 PM on April 19, 2015
Two comments, if I may.... I'm guessing the HUD was not original, and why does it only have two guns per wing? I thought Mustangs had three per wing.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:08 PM on April 19, 2015
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:08 PM on April 19, 2015
Chocolate Pickle: "And then you see a P-47 Thunderbolt and you wonder how anything that big could be a fighter plane."
How would a P-47 look when parked next to an Avenger? I always marvel at how huge the Avengers are.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:09 PM on April 19, 2015
How would a P-47 look when parked next to an Avenger? I always marvel at how huge the Avengers are.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:09 PM on April 19, 2015
dazed_one: "P-51's nice and all, but give me a Spit any day. Tally ho, chaps ."
I can't pick one over the other, but, I agree, the Spits were pure art in deadly motion. Heck, the name alone is outstanding.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:16 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can't pick one over the other, but, I agree, the Spits were pure art in deadly motion. Heck, the name alone is outstanding.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:16 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
"why does it only have two guns per wing? I thought Mustangs had three per wing"
The P-51D has three per wing, a lot more of them were built so that's what you usually see.
School For Warbirds by Budd Davisson
posted by Tenuki at 10:26 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
The P-51D has three per wing, a lot more of them were built so that's what you usually see.
School For Warbirds by Budd Davisson
posted by Tenuki at 10:26 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Tenuki: "The P-51D has three per wing, a lot more of them were built so that's what you usually see.
School For Warbirds by Budd Davisson"
Thanks for that, Tenuki.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:47 PM on April 19, 2015
School For Warbirds by Budd Davisson"
Thanks for that, Tenuki.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:47 PM on April 19, 2015
My personal all-time favorite plane. Flying a P-51 is a dream of mine, one that will almost certainly never be realized. What fun! And hey, great visibility. All planes should have big bubble canopies like that. Beats the pants off of squinting through three layers of scratchy plastic the size of a sheet of paper, that's for sure.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:58 PM on April 19, 2015
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:58 PM on April 19, 2015
How would a P-47 look when parked next to an Avenger? I always marvel at how huge the Avengers are.
Length: P-47=11 meters, Avenger=12.48 meters, P-51=9.8 meters
Wingspan: P-47=12.42 meters, Avenger=16.51 meters, P-51=11.28 meters
Height: P-47=4.47 meters, Avenger=4.70 meters, P-51=4.08 meters
Empty weight: P-47=4535 kilograms, Avenger=4783 kilograms, P-51=3465 kilograms
The P-47 used the same engine as the F6F Hellcat and the F4U Corsair, the legendary Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double-Wasp. The Mustang used the Rolls Royce Merlin, which was also used in the Spitfire. The Avenger used the Wright R-2600 Cyclone 14.
So the Thunderbolt was smaller than the Avenger but a lot closer to its size than it was to the Mustang.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:00 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Length: P-47=11 meters, Avenger=12.48 meters, P-51=9.8 meters
Wingspan: P-47=12.42 meters, Avenger=16.51 meters, P-51=11.28 meters
Height: P-47=4.47 meters, Avenger=4.70 meters, P-51=4.08 meters
Empty weight: P-47=4535 kilograms, Avenger=4783 kilograms, P-51=3465 kilograms
The P-47 used the same engine as the F6F Hellcat and the F4U Corsair, the legendary Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double-Wasp. The Mustang used the Rolls Royce Merlin, which was also used in the Spitfire. The Avenger used the Wright R-2600 Cyclone 14.
So the Thunderbolt was smaller than the Avenger but a lot closer to its size than it was to the Mustang.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:00 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
You shouldn't really be posting porn on Metafilter.
Chocolate Pickle, repeated scans of the instruments, almost in a pattern, is something any pilot rated for flying in IFC will have the habit for (when you are not able to see and rely on instruments for controlling the plane). Vintage mechanical systems would justify flying that way as well.
posted by C.A.S. at 11:06 PM on April 19, 2015
Chocolate Pickle, repeated scans of the instruments, almost in a pattern, is something any pilot rated for flying in IFC will have the habit for (when you are not able to see and rely on instruments for controlling the plane). Vintage mechanical systems would justify flying that way as well.
posted by C.A.S. at 11:06 PM on April 19, 2015
The day I finally get to see a flying Mosquito, if it ever comes, will be a good day.
Also CAF air shows are well worth seeing, the bigger and more theatrical the better. Seeing an old warbird flying is always nice, but when several are in the air at once is just a whole different thing. Note: more theatrical is still, net, better, but it does imply a certain level of unavoidable tackiness, like the fake bombing runs with prepositioned asplosions on the ground. And you should expect to need to hose off your jingoism filter, especially if Fifi nukes Japan again. But mostly it keeps a respect-for-aviators-from-anywhere kinda tone. Mowstly.
Kinda weird to see a cold-and-dark video that's not with Pranas from Baltic Air.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:16 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also CAF air shows are well worth seeing, the bigger and more theatrical the better. Seeing an old warbird flying is always nice, but when several are in the air at once is just a whole different thing. Note: more theatrical is still, net, better, but it does imply a certain level of unavoidable tackiness, like the fake bombing runs with prepositioned asplosions on the ground. And you should expect to need to hose off your jingoism filter, especially if Fifi nukes Japan again. But mostly it keeps a respect-for-aviators-from-anywhere kinda tone. Mowstly.
Kinda weird to see a cold-and-dark video that's not with Pranas from Baltic Air.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:16 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Vintage Mustang Pilot Manuals
I'm guessing you don't pick it up the way you pick up, say, lawn bowling.
As long as you have a look at the instructions, I'm sure you'll be fine
posted by C.A.S. at 11:20 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing you don't pick it up the way you pick up, say, lawn bowling.
As long as you have a look at the instructions, I'm sure you'll be fine
posted by C.A.S. at 11:20 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
P-51's nice and all, but give me a Spit any day. Tally ho, chaps.
That's lovely, but it's not the definitive Spitfire video. This is.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:21 PM on April 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
That's lovely, but it's not the definitive Spitfire video. This is.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:21 PM on April 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
That's lovely, but it's not the definitive Spitfire video. This yt is.
Dear god I love that video, especially the response from the presenter and crew.
I read an interesting book a while back called Fighter Pilot by William Dunn, an American ace who flew combat missions in Hurricanes, Spitfires, Mustangs and Thunderbolts and also spent time flying P-38s, P-39s, P-40s and Typhoons. It's an interesting read for those who have an interest in these old war-birds.
I always remember it for the note it ends on; he obviously has a lot of love for and knowledge of the planes he flew and respect for those of the enemy like the Bf 109 and the Fw 190, but he closes with this line,
"if I had to make the choice of one fighter above all the others - one that I'd rather have tied to the seat of my pants in any tactical situation - it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller-driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
posted by dazed_one at 11:29 PM on April 19, 2015
Dear god I love that video, especially the response from the presenter and crew.
I read an interesting book a while back called Fighter Pilot by William Dunn, an American ace who flew combat missions in Hurricanes, Spitfires, Mustangs and Thunderbolts and also spent time flying P-38s, P-39s, P-40s and Typhoons. It's an interesting read for those who have an interest in these old war-birds.
I always remember it for the note it ends on; he obviously has a lot of love for and knowledge of the planes he flew and respect for those of the enemy like the Bf 109 and the Fw 190, but he closes with this line,
"if I had to make the choice of one fighter above all the others - one that I'd rather have tied to the seat of my pants in any tactical situation - it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller-driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
posted by dazed_one at 11:29 PM on April 19, 2015
If you want a moderately "close" simulator, may I suggest playing War Thunder? It's free, PS4, Mac, or PC friendly; and offers some great air-to-air combat vs Germans, Americans, Russians, and Brits. Or tanks battles. For added realism you could add a Logitech joystick, for about $33. Or you could go full on crazy with a HOTAS model, for about $350. Good times.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 12:08 AM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 12:08 AM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
why does it only have two guns per wing? I thought Mustangs had three per wing
The P-51A, B, and C variants had two Brownings per wing. The P-51D variant is by far the most produced (8500+ were built) and famous and probably what most people picture when they think of a Mustang and its armament was increased to three Brownings per wing for six total.
posted by Justinian at 2:00 AM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
The P-51A, B, and C variants had two Brownings per wing. The P-51D variant is by far the most produced (8500+ were built) and famous and probably what most people picture when they think of a Mustang and its armament was increased to three Brownings per wing for six total.
posted by Justinian at 2:00 AM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's lovely, but it's not the definitive Spitfire video. This yt is.
World's Most Expensive and Glorious Haircut
posted by C.A.S. at 2:41 AM on April 20, 2015
World's Most Expensive and Glorious Haircut
posted by C.A.S. at 2:41 AM on April 20, 2015
If I ever got Crazy Rich a P-51 would be the first thing I bought
Tom Cruise has one. Brad Pitt bought one of the 37 remaining flyable Spitfires this year, for about 2 million pounds I believe.
posted by C.A.S. at 2:46 AM on April 20, 2015
Tom Cruise has one. Brad Pitt bought one of the 37 remaining flyable Spitfires this year, for about 2 million pounds I believe.
posted by C.A.S. at 2:46 AM on April 20, 2015
How do you get checked out for single-seat airplanes?
posted by ctmf at 8:16 PM on April 19 [+] [!]
Many of them have been modified with a second seat for joyrides and training/checkout purposes. Insurance companies usually require a specific number of hours "in type" before allowing/covering solo flying.
The comment about engine torque above is serious. There was a guy in Van Nuys a couple years back who morted himself, the airplane and a hangar at the same time because his Mustang got away from him.
If there is a flight school that teaches student pilots to dogfight in Cessna 172's, I will sign up.
posted by peeedro at 7:03 PM on April 19 [+] [!]
That would be a long and boring dogfight. I'm pretty sure the combatants would just lose interest....
posted by Thistledown at 5:02 AM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 8:16 PM on April 19 [+] [!]
Many of them have been modified with a second seat for joyrides and training/checkout purposes. Insurance companies usually require a specific number of hours "in type" before allowing/covering solo flying.
The comment about engine torque above is serious. There was a guy in Van Nuys a couple years back who morted himself, the airplane and a hangar at the same time because his Mustang got away from him.
If there is a flight school that teaches student pilots to dogfight in Cessna 172's, I will sign up.
posted by peeedro at 7:03 PM on April 19 [+] [!]
That would be a long and boring dogfight. I'm pretty sure the combatants would just lose interest....
posted by Thistledown at 5:02 AM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing the HUD was not original
That's not a HUD, that's a gyroscopically stabilized gunsight that would take into account the plane's turning and banking and offset the sight. The ring sight next to it was a backup.
It will actively try to kill you if you don't pay attention to what you are doing
The big thing that gave early version of the Mustang the "widow maker" monlker was go-arounds. The pilot would be trying to land, see a problem, push the power forward and *BAM* torque over and crash. You had to be very careful with the loud handle at low speeds.
The P-51 was the first plane in the US Military that you really had to fly by checklist. You had to set trims at takeoff. Note how he sets 5° right rudder trim -- that's to counteract the torque of the motor! You adjust that trim out as you gain speed, but as you come in to land, you have to set it back.
The other thing you had to manage was the motor. The instrument inside the white box were the flying instruments -- altimeter, artificial horizon, turn-slip gauge, airspeed indicator, and VASI. The ones to the right outside the box are the critical engine gauges -- engine temp, oil temp/pressure, boost, and boost temp. You constantly have to manage boost and mixture to make sure the engine stays happy, cool and lubricated. If it doesn't, the engine stops, and when you lose the engine on a one engine aircraft, you now have a very twitchy, very nose heavy glider. Very bad.
P-51's nice and all, but give me a Spit any day.
Spitty's were great defensive interceptors. Fast, great turn rates, good climb rates. Perfect for defending the UK. But as offensive fighters, they had one big problem -- they didn't have any range. Even the RAF agreed if they had to be in a fighter over Berlin, they'd want to be in a Mustang or a Thunderbolt, because if they were in a Spitfire, they weren't getting home, heck, they weren't even getting to Berlin. The P-51s brought the war to the Germans.
What the USAF realized is that you don't need turning performance. You need roll, range, power and tactics. So, the P-47, a plane so large that the RAF joked that the best defense against the germans was to run and hide in the back of the plane, was more than able to go against the Luftwäffe, because of the power of the massive engine, and both the P-47 and P-51 could roll their way out of trouble.
As long as the UK solely built fighters, that was the pattern -- short range, very fast, very good climbers. The last, the incredible English Electric Lighting, was one of the best pure interceptors ever made, and damn few things short of a missile could climb like it. But, like all UK designs, range was always a problem. The UK wasn't very big, how far did it need to go?
(Similar: Swedish fighter designs, which tend to be *very* good, very flexible, but very short ranged because they're strictly designed to protect Swedish territory.)
posted by eriko at 5:34 AM on April 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
That's not a HUD, that's a gyroscopically stabilized gunsight that would take into account the plane's turning and banking and offset the sight. The ring sight next to it was a backup.
It will actively try to kill you if you don't pay attention to what you are doing
The big thing that gave early version of the Mustang the "widow maker" monlker was go-arounds. The pilot would be trying to land, see a problem, push the power forward and *BAM* torque over and crash. You had to be very careful with the loud handle at low speeds.
The P-51 was the first plane in the US Military that you really had to fly by checklist. You had to set trims at takeoff. Note how he sets 5° right rudder trim -- that's to counteract the torque of the motor! You adjust that trim out as you gain speed, but as you come in to land, you have to set it back.
The other thing you had to manage was the motor. The instrument inside the white box were the flying instruments -- altimeter, artificial horizon, turn-slip gauge, airspeed indicator, and VASI. The ones to the right outside the box are the critical engine gauges -- engine temp, oil temp/pressure, boost, and boost temp. You constantly have to manage boost and mixture to make sure the engine stays happy, cool and lubricated. If it doesn't, the engine stops, and when you lose the engine on a one engine aircraft, you now have a very twitchy, very nose heavy glider. Very bad.
P-51's nice and all, but give me a Spit any day.
Spitty's were great defensive interceptors. Fast, great turn rates, good climb rates. Perfect for defending the UK. But as offensive fighters, they had one big problem -- they didn't have any range. Even the RAF agreed if they had to be in a fighter over Berlin, they'd want to be in a Mustang or a Thunderbolt, because if they were in a Spitfire, they weren't getting home, heck, they weren't even getting to Berlin. The P-51s brought the war to the Germans.
What the USAF realized is that you don't need turning performance. You need roll, range, power and tactics. So, the P-47, a plane so large that the RAF joked that the best defense against the germans was to run and hide in the back of the plane, was more than able to go against the Luftwäffe, because of the power of the massive engine, and both the P-47 and P-51 could roll their way out of trouble.
As long as the UK solely built fighters, that was the pattern -- short range, very fast, very good climbers. The last, the incredible English Electric Lighting, was one of the best pure interceptors ever made, and damn few things short of a missile could climb like it. But, like all UK designs, range was always a problem. The UK wasn't very big, how far did it need to go?
(Similar: Swedish fighter designs, which tend to be *very* good, very flexible, but very short ranged because they're strictly designed to protect Swedish territory.)
posted by eriko at 5:34 AM on April 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Tom Cruise has one. Brad Pitt bought one of the 37 remaining flyable Spitfires this year, for about 2 million pounds I believe.
There are a lot of P-51s. After WW-II, the USAF said "Okay, the P-51 is our fighter", so the rest got scrapped. Things like the P-47 and P-38 are much rarer, but the P-51 was everywhere. Then jets happened, and a whole bunch of P-51s hit the market.
Spitfires are a lot rarer.
The one plane I want to see fly, and I will never see fly, because really, that thing never should have flown, is the B-36. But the few that remain aren't really in any shape to fly, and even if you spent the money to make them 100% original and like new, you could make a solid argument that they wouldn't be airworthy.
But man, oh, man, would I like to see the Aluminum Overcast go by.
posted by eriko at 5:57 AM on April 20, 2015
There are a lot of P-51s. After WW-II, the USAF said "Okay, the P-51 is our fighter", so the rest got scrapped. Things like the P-47 and P-38 are much rarer, but the P-51 was everywhere. Then jets happened, and a whole bunch of P-51s hit the market.
Spitfires are a lot rarer.
The one plane I want to see fly, and I will never see fly, because really, that thing never should have flown, is the B-36. But the few that remain aren't really in any shape to fly, and even if you spent the money to make them 100% original and like new, you could make a solid argument that they wouldn't be airworthy.
But man, oh, man, would I like to see the Aluminum Overcast go by.
posted by eriko at 5:57 AM on April 20, 2015
The best WW-II plane, bar none, is the Mosquito. Fast as hell, useful as hell, sexy as hell, made of wood, and pissed Hermann Göring right off.
posted by eriko at 5:58 AM on April 20, 2015
posted by eriko at 5:58 AM on April 20, 2015
Spitfires are a lot rarer.
I read that this is not only because of the number built, but that the rivets are some magnesium alloy whose expected lifespan is very short, they oxidise to nothing in no time at all. The designers didn't care because the expected lifespan of a Spit was barely over a year.
So very few wrecks survive without having fallen apart into pieces in the ground or shed.
Here's where you can get trained in flying the Spit, they are the ones teaching Brad on his. Funnily enough, they now have a Mustang.
Boultbee Flight Academy
Come to England with some cash, and you could at least have a ride in a 'Stang or a Spit.
I have an amazing memory from a couple of summers ago, I was on a deserted beach in the Highlands of Scotland, looking for the resident bottlenose dolphin pod. Over my head, with only us as its witness, a Spitfire screamed down from the sky, pulling up 10 feet over the sea. He then ran through a half hour of airshow (I assume it was a practice run for the upcoming Tattoo at Fort George).
Never forget this private show.
posted by C.A.S. at 7:12 AM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I read that this is not only because of the number built, but that the rivets are some magnesium alloy whose expected lifespan is very short, they oxidise to nothing in no time at all. The designers didn't care because the expected lifespan of a Spit was barely over a year.
So very few wrecks survive without having fallen apart into pieces in the ground or shed.
Here's where you can get trained in flying the Spit, they are the ones teaching Brad on his. Funnily enough, they now have a Mustang.
Boultbee Flight Academy
Come to England with some cash, and you could at least have a ride in a 'Stang or a Spit.
I have an amazing memory from a couple of summers ago, I was on a deserted beach in the Highlands of Scotland, looking for the resident bottlenose dolphin pod. Over my head, with only us as its witness, a Spitfire screamed down from the sky, pulling up 10 feet over the sea. He then ran through a half hour of airshow (I assume it was a practice run for the upcoming Tattoo at Fort George).
Never forget this private show.
posted by C.A.S. at 7:12 AM on April 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
> The one plane I want to see fly, and I will never see fly, because really, that thing never should have flown, is the B-36. But the few that remain aren't really in any shape to fly, and even if you spent the money to make them 100% original and like new, you could make a solid argument that they wouldn't be airworthy.
I've never been able to find an authoritative source for this story. However, there are several rumours floating around about a group that was making good progress on restoring a B-36 to airworthy condition. Right up until someone decided that it still counted as a strategic bomber under the SALT/START treaties. At which point, they had to cut the wing spar while Soviet/Russian observers watched.
posted by penguinicity at 8:00 AM on April 20, 2015
I've never been able to find an authoritative source for this story. However, there are several rumours floating around about a group that was making good progress on restoring a B-36 to airworthy condition. Right up until someone decided that it still counted as a strategic bomber under the SALT/START treaties. At which point, they had to cut the wing spar while Soviet/Russian observers watched.
posted by penguinicity at 8:00 AM on April 20, 2015
Right up until someone decided that it still counted as a strategic bomber under the SALT/START treaties.
I can actually believe this, or at least, I can't dismiss it as completely implausible. The B-36 was able to carry the truly massive early multistage nuclear weapons, though it was so range limited that it had to fly out of Alaska to do so. With modern weapons being so much lighter, a B-36 would, in fact, be a technically viable weapons platform. It would die quickly, of course, if it tried, assuming it didn't fall apart or catch fire, but with a few modern nuclear weapons and a full fuel load, it could make a strategic attack. So, if the Russians decided it would count, it would count.
I would have hoped that an agreement could have been made with the Russians/Soviets on that -- there are B-52s in museums that could easily be made flyable.
posted by eriko at 8:07 AM on April 20, 2015
I can actually believe this, or at least, I can't dismiss it as completely implausible. The B-36 was able to carry the truly massive early multistage nuclear weapons, though it was so range limited that it had to fly out of Alaska to do so. With modern weapons being so much lighter, a B-36 would, in fact, be a technically viable weapons platform. It would die quickly, of course, if it tried, assuming it didn't fall apart or catch fire, but with a few modern nuclear weapons and a full fuel load, it could make a strategic attack. So, if the Russians decided it would count, it would count.
I would have hoped that an agreement could have been made with the Russians/Soviets on that -- there are B-52s in museums that could easily be made flyable.
posted by eriko at 8:07 AM on April 20, 2015
This might be a little late for many to see, but:
It will actively try to kill you if you don't pay attention to what you are doing. The torque from the (massive!) engine can be enough to twist you right into the ground during takeoff if you don't manage the throttle properly.
Anyone who has a copy of MSFS or Prepar3d and wants to try this out for themselves should get a copy of A2A's P51 (preferably with AccuSim, but it's not strictly necessary if you just want the flight dynamics) and attempt to launch that beast. A2A does incredibly accurate modelling, and this is probably the closest you can get without your hands on a stick or an incredibly-expensive full motion simulator.
What eriko said about the checklist is right -- you absolutely must follow the checklist instructions for takeoff to avoid significant odds of dying. Even with that, plus having a full suite of yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals for my physical controls, it's an incredible challenge for me to get the thing off the ground without running off the runway, corkscrewing my left wing into the earth, or pitching into a ridiculous climb then stalling out too low to save it. "Unforgiving" doesn't begin to cover it: you need to perfectly coordinate careful increase of throttle, with both aileron and rudder corrections to keep a straight line. To make it even harder, the rudder has little authority at low speed, but as you (rapidly) accelerate it grabs more air, and if you're not careful with your timing on the easing up of rudder pressure you'll find yourself over-compensating... and the roll factor is the opposite. As you pick up speed and the plane lets slip the surly bonds of earth, you get more roll you need to compensate -- so you're feeding more aileron at the same time as you reduce rudder, all whilst making sure you don't feed power in too fast (which will overcome your control authority with excessive engine torque, and kill you) or too slow (which will mean you don't get the speed to take flight, but you have enough speed to run off the end of the runway... which will kill you), and then when you're in the air you're unwinding your trim and trying not to kill the engine by running it at takeoff power for too long while you're doing all this.
The one time in 10 I can get it off the ground in a non-dramatic manner it feels really damn good.
posted by jammer at 10:42 AM on April 20, 2015
It will actively try to kill you if you don't pay attention to what you are doing. The torque from the (massive!) engine can be enough to twist you right into the ground during takeoff if you don't manage the throttle properly.
Anyone who has a copy of MSFS or Prepar3d and wants to try this out for themselves should get a copy of A2A's P51 (preferably with AccuSim, but it's not strictly necessary if you just want the flight dynamics) and attempt to launch that beast. A2A does incredibly accurate modelling, and this is probably the closest you can get without your hands on a stick or an incredibly-expensive full motion simulator.
What eriko said about the checklist is right -- you absolutely must follow the checklist instructions for takeoff to avoid significant odds of dying. Even with that, plus having a full suite of yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals for my physical controls, it's an incredible challenge for me to get the thing off the ground without running off the runway, corkscrewing my left wing into the earth, or pitching into a ridiculous climb then stalling out too low to save it. "Unforgiving" doesn't begin to cover it: you need to perfectly coordinate careful increase of throttle, with both aileron and rudder corrections to keep a straight line. To make it even harder, the rudder has little authority at low speed, but as you (rapidly) accelerate it grabs more air, and if you're not careful with your timing on the easing up of rudder pressure you'll find yourself over-compensating... and the roll factor is the opposite. As you pick up speed and the plane lets slip the surly bonds of earth, you get more roll you need to compensate -- so you're feeding more aileron at the same time as you reduce rudder, all whilst making sure you don't feed power in too fast (which will overcome your control authority with excessive engine torque, and kill you) or too slow (which will mean you don't get the speed to take flight, but you have enough speed to run off the end of the runway... which will kill you), and then when you're in the air you're unwinding your trim and trying not to kill the engine by running it at takeoff power for too long while you're doing all this.
The one time in 10 I can get it off the ground in a non-dramatic manner it feels really damn good.
posted by jammer at 10:42 AM on April 20, 2015
I was a little surprised that he didn't seem to be following a written checklist, at least pre-takeoff. And then in flight he just kept on scanning - almost to the point of me saying to the screen "stop looking at the panel and look out the window once in a while!",while remembering that the gopro view was probably misleading. All in all I have to respect the person that can handle a plane like this.
posted by achrise at 11:06 AM on April 20, 2015
posted by achrise at 11:06 AM on April 20, 2015
I think this guy doesn't need a written checklist because he's long since memorized it.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 12:26 PM on April 20, 2015
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 12:26 PM on April 20, 2015
eriko: "That's not a HUD, that's a gyroscopically stabilized gunsight that would take into account the plane's turning and banking and offset the sight. The ring sight next to it was a backup."
Ah, many thanks for the correction.
eriko: "But man, oh, man, would I like to see the Aluminum Overcast go by."
If you're talking about the EAA's B-17, I was fortunate enough to ride in that thing. They even let us get up and explore the whole plane while in flight! Best USD400 I ever spent. A guy was at that show with his P-51, and it was a real hoot when he took off right behind us and then roared past us like we were standing still.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 7:38 PM on April 20, 2015
Ah, many thanks for the correction.
eriko: "But man, oh, man, would I like to see the Aluminum Overcast go by."
If you're talking about the EAA's B-17, I was fortunate enough to ride in that thing. They even let us get up and explore the whole plane while in flight! Best USD400 I ever spent. A guy was at that show with his P-51, and it was a real hoot when he took off right behind us and then roared past us like we were standing still.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 7:38 PM on April 20, 2015
Chocolate Pickle: "So the Thunderbolt was smaller than the Avenger but a lot closer to its size than it was to the Mustang."
That is, indeed, a HUGE fighter aircraft.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 4:07 AM on April 21, 2015
That is, indeed, a HUGE fighter aircraft.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 4:07 AM on April 21, 2015
That is, indeed, a HUGE fighter aircraft.
Hard to build things small when you build them out of cast iron.
posted by dazed_one at 9:53 AM on April 21, 2015
Hard to build things small when you build them out of cast iron.
posted by dazed_one at 9:53 AM on April 21, 2015
The Thunderbolt was definitely immense for a fighter, but one nice side effect of that was that it was particularly heavily armed. The P-47 carried eight BMG's with full loads of ammo for every one.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:16 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:16 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
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