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September 2, 2015 8:48 AM Subscribe
Faced with the prospect of $15 an hour wages for fast food workers, Silicon Valley is re-inventing the automat.
> Not bad for $6.95.
Yeah. Not bad for you.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:51 AM on September 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
Yeah. Not bad for you.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:51 AM on September 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
I really like the aesthetics of automats, but would I be willing to pay $7 for essentially a supermarket microwave meal? Probably not more than once when for a dollar more I could just go to chipotle.
posted by Pyry at 8:55 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Pyry at 8:55 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
EATSA, A FULLY AUTOMATED RESTAURANT,
Not with back of the house staff.
When I was in Memphis, of all places, I saw these little storefront takeaway places that had valpaks of salads, meals, etc. with the only person running the cash register and occasionally restocking the big glass fridges. They had moved the prep back down the supply chain.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:57 AM on September 2, 2015 [11 favorites]
Not with back of the house staff.
When I was in Memphis, of all places, I saw these little storefront takeaway places that had valpaks of salads, meals, etc. with the only person running the cash register and occasionally restocking the big glass fridges. They had moved the prep back down the supply chain.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:57 AM on September 2, 2015 [11 favorites]
But in the horrifying dystopia of a $15 minimum wage, that eight dollar burrito will cost you EIGHT DOLLARS AND SIXTY CENTS. Can your mind handle such trauma?!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:59 AM on September 2, 2015 [92 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:59 AM on September 2, 2015 [92 favorites]
Fuck it. Why pay people?
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:59 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:59 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
This isn't an automat at all. And it's not new. Lots of fast food chains have been installing self-ordering computers at their stores - and then the kitchen staff will bring your food out just like normal.
The only thing new here is that they put a wall up between you and the "help".
posted by mayonnaises at 9:00 AM on September 2, 2015 [37 favorites]
The only thing new here is that they put a wall up between you and the "help".
posted by mayonnaises at 9:00 AM on September 2, 2015 [37 favorites]
"the restaurant only accepts credit cards. No cash."
Naturally.
posted by scatter gather at 9:01 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Naturally.
posted by scatter gather at 9:01 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Fuck it. Why pay people?
This has been the Dynamo running the engine if America since ....forever?
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 AM on September 2, 2015 [24 favorites]
This has been the Dynamo running the engine if America since ....forever?
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 AM on September 2, 2015 [24 favorites]
The styling is all wrong. If you are going to revive the automat, it should look like the type of place frequented by a down-and-out informant or small-time crook in Batman: The Animated Series.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:02 AM on September 2, 2015 [36 favorites]
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:02 AM on September 2, 2015 [36 favorites]
The whole completely meat-free thing lowers costs too. That area's not cheap, but the owners might still be making bank.
posted by crazy with stars at 9:02 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by crazy with stars at 9:02 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Fuck all this shit, I want Drive-Ins with roller-skating food delivery again.
posted by selfnoise at 9:03 AM on September 2, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 9:03 AM on September 2, 2015 [19 favorites]
Not a human in sight, though there is a team of about five or six back-of-house kitchen staff (or as I like to imagine, magical elves) who are hidden from view and prepare the food.Yeah, it is a lot easier to imagine the people who serve your food as "magical elves" rather than actual human beings with families and debts and ambitions beyond throwing together a cheap burrito bowl for the equally faceless "Sarah F". Ugh.
posted by Etrigan at 9:04 AM on September 2, 2015 [88 favorites]
"magical elves"
Not elves. Singing Oompa-Loompas!
posted by theorique at 9:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Not elves. Singing Oompa-Loompas!
posted by theorique at 9:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Fuck all this shit, I want Drive-Ins with roller-skating food delivery again.
No roller skates, but I ate here last weekend...
posted by Chrischris at 9:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
No roller skates, but I ate here last weekend...
posted by Chrischris at 9:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fuck all this shit, I want Drive-Ins with roller-skating food delivery again
Do you live near a Sonic?
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:08 AM on September 2, 2015 [17 favorites]
Do you live near a Sonic?
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:08 AM on September 2, 2015 [17 favorites]
The styling is all wrong. If you are going to revive the automat, it should look like the type of place frequented by a down-and-out informant or small-time crook in Batman: The Animated Series.
Absolutely. It should be Classic Diner meets Fritz Lang's Metropolis. That place looks like a Menchie's
posted by leotrotsky at 9:09 AM on September 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
Absolutely. It should be Classic Diner meets Fritz Lang's Metropolis. That place looks like a Menchie's
posted by leotrotsky at 9:09 AM on September 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
Faced with the prospect of $15 an hour wages for fast food workers, Silicon Valley is re-inventing the automat.
The article says people (likely minimum wage earners) work behind the wall to prepare food. Am I missing something?
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:10 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
The article says people (likely minimum wage earners) work behind the wall to prepare food. Am I missing something?
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:10 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Over the doorway should be a gleaming metal art-deco hood ornament bust of a wing-helmeted Ayn Rand.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:11 AM on September 2, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:11 AM on September 2, 2015 [20 favorites]
> The article says people (likely minimum wage earners) work behind the wall to prepare food. Am I missing something?
When they can automate food prep, too, they will. For the time being they have to settle for merely replacing some of the workers instead of all of them.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:13 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
When they can automate food prep, too, they will. For the time being they have to settle for merely replacing some of the workers instead of all of them.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:13 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Faced with the prospect of $15 an hour wages for fast food workers, Silicon Valley is re-inventing the automat.Yeah, I'm curious as to the editorializing in the post content. I don't see anything in the article about the $15 minimum wage.
The article says people (likely minimum wage earners) work behind the wall to prepare food. Am I missing something?
posted by ndfine at 9:13 AM on September 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
Meetup, anyone?
posted by Going To Maine at 9:16 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:16 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Faced with the prospect of $15 an hour wages for fast food workers, Silicon Valley is re-inventing the automat
i need a countdown clock to how long til this headline ends up saying Silicon Valley is re-inventing chattel slavery
"we provide room and board for our workers and their families!"
posted by poffin boffin at 9:17 AM on September 2, 2015 [22 favorites]
i need a countdown clock to how long til this headline ends up saying Silicon Valley is re-inventing chattel slavery
"we provide room and board for our workers and their families!"
posted by poffin boffin at 9:17 AM on September 2, 2015 [22 favorites]
There used to be a new automat on St. Mark's Place in the mid 2000s. They had a counter person to give you change and order drinks from, and a kitchen staff in the back you couldn't see.
I kinda miss that place.
posted by SansPoint at 9:18 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I kinda miss that place.
posted by SansPoint at 9:18 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
The styling is all wrong. If you are going to revive the automat, it should look like the type of place frequented by a down-and-out informant or small-time crook in Batman: The Animated Series.
Absolutely. It should be Classic Diner meets Fritz Lang's Metropolis. That place looks like a Menchie's
Automats should be designed as if everyone there might have a Mysterious Past
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 AM on September 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
Absolutely. It should be Classic Diner meets Fritz Lang's Metropolis. That place looks like a Menchie's
Automats should be designed as if everyone there might have a Mysterious Past
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 AM on September 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
Disrupt dystopia!
posted by uncleozzy at 9:18 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 9:18 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
On the plus side, the kitchen staff will be dealing with abstract "orders" rather than "customers." Orders have a smaller chance of flipping the fuck out for no goddamn reason.
posted by a dangerous ruin at 9:19 AM on September 2, 2015 [42 favorites]
posted by a dangerous ruin at 9:19 AM on September 2, 2015 [42 favorites]
When they can automate food prep, too, they will. For the time being they have to settle for merely replacing some of the workers instead of all of them.
Sure, no disagreement there. I'm just trying to figure out what the article actually says. This looks like an automat I once saw in Amsterdam, and they have humans working behind the scenes there, too.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:20 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sure, no disagreement there. I'm just trying to figure out what the article actually says. This looks like an automat I once saw in Amsterdam, and they have humans working behind the scenes there, too.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:20 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
yeah if i had to work in food service i would definitely want a solid wall between me and any customers just on principle, that is true.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:20 AM on September 2, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:20 AM on September 2, 2015 [18 favorites]
WaWa's ordering system works pretty well. You can still see, interact with, and talk to the employees.
But a computer takes down your sandwich order and spits it out on a ticket.
I think it works pretty well. It's not a good use of a person's time to force people in a queue so that somebody can write down (and screw up) your sandwich order. The touchscreens are also nice if you're deaf or don't speak English.
Also, pay your fucking employees a reasonable wage.
posted by schmod at 9:21 AM on September 2, 2015 [14 favorites]
But a computer takes down your sandwich order and spits it out on a ticket.
I think it works pretty well. It's not a good use of a person's time to force people in a queue so that somebody can write down (and screw up) your sandwich order. The touchscreens are also nice if you're deaf or don't speak English.
Also, pay your fucking employees a reasonable wage.
posted by schmod at 9:21 AM on September 2, 2015 [14 favorites]
Faced with the prospect of $15 an hour wages for fast food workers, Silicon Valley is re-inventing the automat.
The article says people (likely minimum wage earners) work behind the wall to prepare food. Am I missing something?
I'm pretty sure that actual humans were also making the food that was served at Horn & Hardart, which sort of defined "automat".
posted by hippybear at 9:21 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
The article says people (likely minimum wage earners) work behind the wall to prepare food. Am I missing something?
I'm pretty sure that actual humans were also making the food that was served at Horn & Hardart, which sort of defined "automat".
posted by hippybear at 9:21 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Silicon Valley's next iteration will just be a self-serve Soylent dispenser.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:22 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:22 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
When I was in Memphis, of all places, I saw these little storefront takeaway places that had valpaks of salads, meals, etc. with the only person running the cash register and occasionally restocking the big glass fridges. They had moved the prep back down the supply chain.
Isn't that pretty much the Pret a Manger model?
posted by cosmic.osmo at 9:25 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Isn't that pretty much the Pret a Manger model?
posted by cosmic.osmo at 9:25 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
I like the FEBO automats they have in the Netherlands. Sometimes you just want an adequate burger for two euros without having to look anyone in the eye and utter your desire for "cheesy"
posted by theodolite at 9:25 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 9:25 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Okay, so I actually just read the article, and oh my god it's every Silicon Valley trope packaged up into one thing.
Again. My gas station has been doing this for years.
posted by schmod at 9:25 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Again. My gas station has been doing this for years.
posted by schmod at 9:25 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
cosmic.osmo If the Pret I regularly get lunch from is normal, they also have a small kitchen area in the back.
posted by SansPoint at 9:27 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by SansPoint at 9:27 AM on September 2, 2015
I'm pretty sure that actual humans were also making the food that was served at Horn & Hardart, which sort of defined "automat".
In That Touch of Mink I seem to remember there's actually a scene of the bustling room of people behind the wall sticking food in slots.
posted by selfnoise at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
In That Touch of Mink I seem to remember there's actually a scene of the bustling room of people behind the wall sticking food in slots.
posted by selfnoise at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Silicon Valley's next iteration will just be a self-serve Soylent dispenser.
Hooked up to a treadmill -- why should the business have to provide its own electricity?
posted by Etrigan at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Hooked up to a treadmill -- why should the business have to provide its own electricity?
posted by Etrigan at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is just an updated version of the original automat that everyone thought was great.
Not getting all the hate.
posted by freakazoid at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not getting all the hate.
posted by freakazoid at 9:28 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Silicon Valley's next iteration will just be a self-serve Soylent dispenser.
First the soylent, then the solar powered lifestyle . It's a gateway drug!
posted by theorique at 9:30 AM on September 2, 2015
First the soylent, then the solar powered lifestyle . It's a gateway drug!
posted by theorique at 9:30 AM on September 2, 2015
Maybe I'm just being a little pedantic, but I think a key difference is that this place takes custom orders. So you have no advantages of an automat (You go in, you put your money in, and you pick something to eat that's already made - instead you order and wait for your order to be delivered through a door.)
posted by mayonnaises at 9:31 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by mayonnaises at 9:31 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, the only thing being automated away here are cashiers. There will still be cooks and cleaners. Or at least the article doesn't touch on exactly what magic they use to make the garbage empty itself or the food cook itself. And while they're nice people, cashiers are the least value-add to the whole fast food experience.
posted by GuyZero at 9:34 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 9:34 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, it is a lot easier to imagine the people who serve your food as "magical elves" rather than actual human beings with families and debts and ambitions beyond throwing together a cheap burrito bowl for the equally faceless "Sarah F". Ugh.
Ugh, indeed. Too bad r/punchablesentences is a private subreddit...
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:35 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ugh, indeed. Too bad r/punchablesentences is a private subreddit...
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:35 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Aw, Pret a Manger...They would never work with that name here in the U.S. because it's A) in french ("prettamainger? what?") and B) most people outside NYC have no idea what Pret a Porter means and how the name Pret a Manger is a cute play on words. Sigh. I miss you, Europe.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:35 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:35 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Automat
Yes, the man of twists and turns, this is definitely the scene that must have prompted my aesthetic critique.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:35 AM on September 2, 2015
Yes, the man of twists and turns, this is definitely the scene that must have prompted my aesthetic critique.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:35 AM on September 2, 2015
Thank fucking christ they plastered their idiot fucking foodbox pellet dispensary with GIANT MONITORS.
tell me again about your operating costs please
posted by boo_radley at 9:36 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
tell me again about your operating costs please
posted by boo_radley at 9:36 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Pret a Manger does exist in the US -- I have eaten at one in Chicago.
posted by bitterpants at 9:38 AM on September 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by bitterpants at 9:38 AM on September 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
Aw, Pret a Manger...They would never work with that name here in the U.S
You know there's like five in Chicago?
posted by PMdixon at 9:39 AM on September 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
You know there's like five in Chicago?
posted by PMdixon at 9:39 AM on September 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
YES I LIKE THE REMOVAL OF ALL INTERACTION WITH SERVANT HUMANS BUT THE PROBLEM OF OTHER DINERS REMAINS
posted by indubitable at 9:41 AM on September 2, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 9:41 AM on September 2, 2015 [11 favorites]
If you just avoid eye contact with everyone while holding your hands on the sides of your face like blinders it's almost as good.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:42 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:42 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Pret a Manger does exist in the US -- I have eaten at one in Chicago.
I just got back from London and they are ubiquitous there, but I just looked at the store locator page and there are six here in Boston, and I have seen them in New York City as well.
posted by briank at 9:43 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just got back from London and they are ubiquitous there, but I just looked at the store locator page and there are six here in Boston, and I have seen them in New York City as well.
posted by briank at 9:43 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
> Not getting all the hate.
The hate isn't pointed at automats but that the stupid framing of this article that positions Silicon Valley as the innovator of this neat new thing! that will solve problems! like paying people a living wage!
posted by rtha at 9:45 AM on September 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
The hate isn't pointed at automats but that the stupid framing of this article that positions Silicon Valley as the innovator of this neat new thing! that will solve problems! like paying people a living wage!
posted by rtha at 9:45 AM on September 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
Uh, the hate does seem to be pointed at automats and not at the framing of the article.
posted by I-baLL at 9:47 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by I-baLL at 9:47 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
They're not "reinventing" as much as putting a touchscreen and a credit card slot on an Automat , instead of flipping quarters on a slot. I kind of expected this to be some sort of thing where people ordered and paid via smartphone, set up a pickup time, and given both a windows and a code to unlock it, and a couple of minutes before, it's ready for pickup. And even that wouldn't be new (I don't know how many times my father called the churrasco down the street to have two chickens, spicy ready to go on 12:30 in his name).
Also, being "automated" is a shitty excuse for credit card only and not accepting dirty quarters and $5 bills from poor people.
posted by lmfsilva at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, being "automated" is a shitty excuse for credit card only and not accepting dirty quarters and $5 bills from poor people.
posted by lmfsilva at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yay for Pret a Manger in the US :-) (thanks Mefi!)
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015
That articles reads like pure advertising.
ORDERING IS SO FUN LIKE PLAYING A VIDEOGAME!
posted by the bricabrac man at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
ORDERING IS SO FUN LIKE PLAYING A VIDEOGAME!
posted by the bricabrac man at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Sterile and soulless, just like the rest of Silicon Valley.
posted by humboldt32 at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by humboldt32 at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Uh, the hate does seem to be pointed at automats and not at the framing of the article.
idk, it looks like you are confusing a debate about what actually constitutes an automat with automat hate.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
idk, it looks like you are confusing a debate about what actually constitutes an automat with automat hate.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:48 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Never mind Pret a Manger. What you Americans need is some goddam FEBO.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:52 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:52 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I know of right wingers who are giddy over this corporate push back. Human suffering is their Viagra.
posted by Beholder at 9:52 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Beholder at 9:52 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
You know there's like five in Chicago?
Sorry, Chicago just isn't as sophisticated as NYC and just wouldn't get it.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:52 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Sorry, Chicago just isn't as sophisticated as NYC and just wouldn't get it.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:52 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
I did always like the art deco-ness of the automat in Dark City, and would totally be a tormented detective in one just like that.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:54 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:54 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
My hate is purely that of an affected aesthete towards the malignantly uninspired design choices. Nothing against the concept of an automat.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:57 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:57 AM on September 2, 2015
Sorry, Chicago just isn't as sophisticated as NYC and just wouldn't get it.
Former NY'er, current Chicagoan, and I have gotten food poisoning three times at Pret a Manger, so clearly yes there is something about it that I don't get. I'm glad they seem to be on a downswing around here.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:00 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Former NY'er, current Chicagoan, and I have gotten food poisoning three times at Pret a Manger, so clearly yes there is something about it that I don't get. I'm glad they seem to be on a downswing around here.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:00 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
"idk, it looks like you are confusing a debate about what actually constitutes an automat with automat hate."
I don't know, maybe I misread or maybe the comments I was referring to got deleted since there seems to be less comments now.
Either way this is the hilarious part:
"To start Eatsa will be open for lunch and take-out dinners Monday–Friday from 11 a.m.–5 p.m."
So basically it's taking the idea of an automat with it's convenience, the ability to get food instantly, and its 24-hour service...... and throws all of that out along with all the meat. Why? I think that this place is going to go out of business in 6 months.
posted by I-baLL at 10:01 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't know, maybe I misread or maybe the comments I was referring to got deleted since there seems to be less comments now.
Either way this is the hilarious part:
"To start Eatsa will be open for lunch and take-out dinners Monday–Friday from 11 a.m.–5 p.m."
So basically it's taking the idea of an automat with it's convenience, the ability to get food instantly, and its 24-hour service...... and throws all of that out along with all the meat. Why? I think that this place is going to go out of business in 6 months.
posted by I-baLL at 10:01 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
and throws all of that out along with all the meat. Why? I think that this place is going to go out of business in 6 months.
it's a lunch place for office workers in a neighbourhood that's like 95% office buildings.
95% of its business is from 11-5. Most other little restaurants in that neighbourhood have the same hours.
posted by GuyZero at 10:02 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
it's a lunch place for office workers in a neighbourhood that's like 95% office buildings.
95% of its business is from 11-5. Most other little restaurants in that neighbourhood have the same hours.
posted by GuyZero at 10:02 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Automated ordering is definitely going to be a thing outside of fine dining. For fast food, faster and more accurate. For casual sit-down, more accurate and in all likelihood higher revenue (people order and re-order more when they don't have to get the waitress's attention; tables turn over faster because no waiting to pay the bill).
There's a LOT of kitchen automation that can be financed by the move in all-in costs (minimum wage, required benefits, taxes on the same) of low-skill kitchen workers from $9-$12/hour to $20-$25/hour. Not expecting that quick, but the incentive for big R&D investments is sure there.
posted by MattD at 10:03 AM on September 2, 2015
There's a LOT of kitchen automation that can be financed by the move in all-in costs (minimum wage, required benefits, taxes on the same) of low-skill kitchen workers from $9-$12/hour to $20-$25/hour. Not expecting that quick, but the incentive for big R&D investments is sure there.
posted by MattD at 10:03 AM on September 2, 2015
I guess what I'm trying to say is.....
Eatsa stupid idea!
/throws up hands like a frustrated Italian chef
posted by I-baLL at 10:03 AM on September 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
Eatsa stupid idea!
/throws up hands like a frustrated Italian chef
posted by I-baLL at 10:03 AM on September 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
"95% of its business is from 11-5. Most other little restaurants in that neighbourhood have the same hours."
Exactly. This is supposed to be like an automat so why would it have a schedule that matches other restaurants in the neighborhood when theoretically it's supposed to be able to stay open for 24 hours?
I mean, I already know the answer. Because unlike a normal automat anybody can open up a door with food on it and take the food out by tapping twice on a container. This design is so bad eatsa not even funny.
posted by I-baLL at 10:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Exactly. This is supposed to be like an automat so why would it have a schedule that matches other restaurants in the neighborhood when theoretically it's supposed to be able to stay open for 24 hours?
I mean, I already know the answer. Because unlike a normal automat anybody can open up a door with food on it and take the food out by tapping twice on a container. This design is so bad eatsa not even funny.
posted by I-baLL at 10:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
You know I've been teaching myself a lot of cocktail and buffet snacks, little things that can happily sit all day on a table, and I'd think a "gourmet" automat full of the things you'd find passed out by cater-waiters at a reception on the High Line would be a niche idea, you could open it next to that old timey soda fountain place in the West Village.
posted by The Whelk at 10:09 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by The Whelk at 10:09 AM on September 2, 2015
Maybe I'm grumpy, unimaginative, or utterly failing at reading comprehension today but I honestly don't get the reinvention part of Eatsa, nor do I get how it will ultimately stay in business. The one aspect that seems unique-ish (not having to interact directly with a cashier) doesn't seem to be a huge hairy awful-must-avoid for most people in restaurant interactions. What am I missing here?
posted by skye.dancer at 10:13 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by skye.dancer at 10:13 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
you could open it next to that old timey soda fountain place in the West Village.
i keep meaning to go there and failing abjectly
posted by poffin boffin at 10:14 AM on September 2, 2015
i keep meaning to go there and failing abjectly
posted by poffin boffin at 10:14 AM on September 2, 2015
I had a phosphate and someone gave me a biography of Jean Harlow so i was living my best life
posted by The Whelk at 10:17 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 10:17 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
So it's basically like ordering at a Sheetz but there's a wall between you and the people making your salad?
posted by octothorpe at 10:17 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 10:17 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
And there's no Z in the name.
posted by maryr at 10:19 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by maryr at 10:19 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do not mention the False WaWa in this thread.
posted by schmod at 10:22 AM on September 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by schmod at 10:22 AM on September 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
Fuck all this shit, I want Drive-Ins with roller-skating food delivery again.
Soon
posted by sammyo at 10:23 AM on September 2, 2015
Soon
posted by sammyo at 10:23 AM on September 2, 2015
> This is supposed to be like an automat so why would it have a schedule that matches other restaurants in the neighborhood when theoretically it's supposed to be able to stay open for 24 hours?
Because no one would be there for at least 8 of those 24 hours? Because they still have a cook staff?
Getting rid of the front-of-house staff is the logical first step to complete automation. It makes things cheaper for the customer too, because no tips! - I try to tip almost everywhere because, well, most of the people doing the work could really use the money, but if you don't even see a person?
Next step to go will be cooking and plating. If all the ingredients are pre-prepared, cooking to an exact recipe should not be too hard. Plating takes fine motor control but it's just one category of task, you could easily make a general purpose "plating robot".
It'll take quite a long while before kitchen prep work is effectively automatable - converting a whole red pepper into presentable slices without any white on them requires quite a lot of fine motor control, and there are probably two hundred tasks like that in kitchen prep, some very similar, some very different - and paying people to do prep is cheap.
But once cooking and plating are automated, I'm sure entrepreneurs will start to off-site the prep work. And once you have huge industrial prep centers, economies of scale will set in.
-----
We need to be prepared for a future where very many jobs are gone and very many are reduced. Driving, food preparation, retail, warehouse - most of these jobs will go, to be replaced by nothing. Next to go will be industry - construction, mining, and the like. (Imagine how much more effective mines would be if you had small disposable mining robots that didn't need to breathe air, didn't need elevators to get them up and down...)
The magic free market fairy isn't going to create new jobs to replace the old ones. Most of us are going to be unemployed and unemployable for the rest of time. We need a new social contract that will guarantee us livable lives even if we can't be functioning economic units.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:24 AM on September 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
Because no one would be there for at least 8 of those 24 hours? Because they still have a cook staff?
Getting rid of the front-of-house staff is the logical first step to complete automation. It makes things cheaper for the customer too, because no tips! - I try to tip almost everywhere because, well, most of the people doing the work could really use the money, but if you don't even see a person?
Next step to go will be cooking and plating. If all the ingredients are pre-prepared, cooking to an exact recipe should not be too hard. Plating takes fine motor control but it's just one category of task, you could easily make a general purpose "plating robot".
It'll take quite a long while before kitchen prep work is effectively automatable - converting a whole red pepper into presentable slices without any white on them requires quite a lot of fine motor control, and there are probably two hundred tasks like that in kitchen prep, some very similar, some very different - and paying people to do prep is cheap.
But once cooking and plating are automated, I'm sure entrepreneurs will start to off-site the prep work. And once you have huge industrial prep centers, economies of scale will set in.
-----
We need to be prepared for a future where very many jobs are gone and very many are reduced. Driving, food preparation, retail, warehouse - most of these jobs will go, to be replaced by nothing. Next to go will be industry - construction, mining, and the like. (Imagine how much more effective mines would be if you had small disposable mining robots that didn't need to breathe air, didn't need elevators to get them up and down...)
The magic free market fairy isn't going to create new jobs to replace the old ones. Most of us are going to be unemployed and unemployable for the rest of time. We need a new social contract that will guarantee us livable lives even if we can't be functioning economic units.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:24 AM on September 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
And once you have huge industrial prep centers, economies of scale will set in.
These are called Sysco and US Foodservice.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:26 AM on September 2, 2015 [18 favorites]
These are called Sysco and US Foodservice.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:26 AM on September 2, 2015 [18 favorites]
Plating takes fine motor control but it's just one category of task, you could easily make a general purpose "plating robot".
way ahead of you
posted by poffin boffin at 10:27 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
way ahead of you
posted by poffin boffin at 10:27 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
I really, really do not like the "automate everything and remove the human element from human existence" that is happening. Capital efficiency is the downfall of human compassion.
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:27 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:27 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
The magic free market fairy isn't going to create new jobs to replace the old ones. Most of us are going to be unemployed and unemployable for the rest of time.
No, you're wrong. Someone will always have money to spend, which means there will always be some job to do. The questions are wealth inequality, and the potential for exploitation. Both can be fixed by sufficiently strong government.
We need a new social contract that will guarantee us livable lives even if we can't be functioning economic units.
Yes, I agree.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 10:30 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
No, you're wrong. Someone will always have money to spend, which means there will always be some job to do. The questions are wealth inequality, and the potential for exploitation. Both can be fixed by sufficiently strong government.
We need a new social contract that will guarantee us livable lives even if we can't be functioning economic units.
Yes, I agree.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 10:30 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I really, really do not like the "automate everything and remove the human element from human existence" that is happening. Capital efficiency is the downfall of human compassion.
Ah, are you yearning for farm work this afternoon? Without "capital efficiency", all of our lives would be knee-deep in the muck from six to six every day, and we still wouldn't have anywhere near our standard of living.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 10:33 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Ah, are you yearning for farm work this afternoon? Without "capital efficiency", all of our lives would be knee-deep in the muck from six to six every day, and we still wouldn't have anywhere near our standard of living.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 10:33 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
The one aspect that seems unique-ish (not having to interact directly with a cashier) doesn't seem to be a huge hairy awful-must-avoid for most people in restaurant interactions. What am I missing here?
It's Silicon Valley. Removing the human interaction part is the point.
posted by bradbane at 10:37 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's Silicon Valley. Removing the human interaction part is the point.
posted by bradbane at 10:37 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
For those who aren't local, this automat is on Market St in San Francisco which is not technically in Silicon Valley and believe me, there is no shortage of opportunity for human interaction in that part of town.
posted by GuyZero at 10:40 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 10:40 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Oh my lord, I love how bad at its job that robot is.
posted by maryr at 10:40 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by maryr at 10:40 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is dumb.
There are still people. You just can't see them. The only difference is that now there's a bunch of screens and shit for the Silicon Valley tech people to design, sell, and maintain.
It not delabourification, it's just ITification. (Not to mention extreme class segregation.)
posted by Sys Rq at 10:42 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
There are still people. You just can't see them. The only difference is that now there's a bunch of screens and shit for the Silicon Valley tech people to design, sell, and maintain.
It not delabourification, it's just ITification. (Not to mention extreme class segregation.)
posted by Sys Rq at 10:42 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
The Automated Future and Past of Fast Food
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:43 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:43 AM on September 2, 2015
The magic free market fairy isn't going to create new jobs to replace the old ones. Most of us are going to be unemployed and unemployable for the rest of time. We need a new social contract that will guarantee us livable lives even if we can't be functioning economic units.
But that would require some constraints on population growth, yes? Otherwise, unrestrained population surge due to attractiveness of guaranteed living wage.
posted by Beholder at 10:45 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
But that would require some constraints on population growth, yes? Otherwise, unrestrained population surge due to attractiveness of guaranteed living wage.
posted by Beholder at 10:45 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was waiting for someone to think I was yearning for the bad ol days, which I am certainly not, but thanks for assuming the worst of me.
What I am saying is that capital does not give one shit about human labor. That's a huge problem that will only get worse as capital markets further automate work and shrink the pool of money available for human labor costs.
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:48 AM on September 2, 2015
What I am saying is that capital does not give one shit about human labor. That's a huge problem that will only get worse as capital markets further automate work and shrink the pool of money available for human labor costs.
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:48 AM on September 2, 2015
Former NY'er, current Chicagoan, and I have gotten food poisoning three times at Pret a Manger, so clearly yes there is something about it that I don't get.
I admire your persistence!
posted by srboisvert at 10:49 AM on September 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
I admire your persistence!
posted by srboisvert at 10:49 AM on September 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
unrestrained population surge due to attractiveness of guaranteed living wage
I believe the data shows that as standard of living goes up, reproduction goes down.
Still, I laugh a little inside when I see people saying things like, "We need a new social contract that will guarantee us livable lives even if we can't be functioning economic units," because "we" as in the people who make the decisions and order the world (so not "we" in any sense that defines the people on MetaFilter) don't need any such thing. They need their own separate space and the armaments to defend it, and they have both of those things already. In the past they also needed people to run and make things for them--and to threaten others of their kind with physical violence, cf. wars--but that is increasingly not true, so we the non-rich can expect to see our needs and desires increasingly ignored as time goes on.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 10:50 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
I believe the data shows that as standard of living goes up, reproduction goes down.
Still, I laugh a little inside when I see people saying things like, "We need a new social contract that will guarantee us livable lives even if we can't be functioning economic units," because "we" as in the people who make the decisions and order the world (so not "we" in any sense that defines the people on MetaFilter) don't need any such thing. They need their own separate space and the armaments to defend it, and they have both of those things already. In the past they also needed people to run and make things for them--and to threaten others of their kind with physical violence, cf. wars--but that is increasingly not true, so we the non-rich can expect to see our needs and desires increasingly ignored as time goes on.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 10:50 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Uber for Quinoa
I'm trying to imagine a real Uber-Restaurant, like just an empty dining room and you tell the app what you want to eat and freelance cooks offer to provide it for you in a given amount of time for a certain amount of money. You pick the one you want, they bring you the food and the house takes a cut.
posted by layceepee at 10:52 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm trying to imagine a real Uber-Restaurant, like just an empty dining room and you tell the app what you want to eat and freelance cooks offer to provide it for you in a given amount of time for a certain amount of money. You pick the one you want, they bring you the food and the house takes a cut.
posted by layceepee at 10:52 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm trying to imagine a real Uber-Restaurant, like just an empty dining room and you tell the app what you want to eat and freelance cooks offer to provide it for you in a given amount of time for a certain amount of money. You pick the one you want, they bring you the food and the house takes a cut.
Surge pricing on tacos!? It's always fucking surge pricing on tacos! This is a scam...
posted by codacorolla at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
Surge pricing on tacos!? It's always fucking surge pricing on tacos! This is a scam...
posted by codacorolla at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
I admire your persistence!
People were very determined to convince me that Pret was super-awesome. And of course, the first time you always figure it's just a virus. ;)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
People were very determined to convince me that Pret was super-awesome. And of course, the first time you always figure it's just a virus. ;)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
And while they're nice people, cashiers are the least value-add to the whole fast food experience.
Who talks like this?
posted by krinklyfig at 11:04 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Who talks like this?
posted by krinklyfig at 11:04 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Me?
posted by GuyZero at 11:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 11:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
It was a rhetorical question. Corporate-speak like "value-add" seems jarring when having a conversation outside an office. Or when referring to human beings.
posted by krinklyfig at 11:11 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by krinklyfig at 11:11 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
capitalist swine!
posted by poffin boffin at 11:12 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by poffin boffin at 11:12 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
How impactful is your value-add in the social media experience?
posted by krinklyfig at 11:16 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by krinklyfig at 11:16 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
I was waiting for someone to think I was yearning for the bad ol days, which I am certainly not, but thanks for assuming the worst of me.
I wasn't assuming the worst of you, Annika. People made the exact same argument as you did during the industrial revolution. "The machines are taking all of our jobs!" But it's not true. The machines automate some jobs, people move on to other jobs and total wealth increases.
Your concept of a "pool of money available for human labor costs" doesn't make any economic sense. Machines don't collect paychecks. The money that goes into the machines pays the people who make and maintain the machine. The money that is saved on wages gets spent somewhere else — on someone else's wages.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 11:22 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I wasn't assuming the worst of you, Annika. People made the exact same argument as you did during the industrial revolution. "The machines are taking all of our jobs!" But it's not true. The machines automate some jobs, people move on to other jobs and total wealth increases.
Your concept of a "pool of money available for human labor costs" doesn't make any economic sense. Machines don't collect paychecks. The money that goes into the machines pays the people who make and maintain the machine. The money that is saved on wages gets spent somewhere else — on someone else's wages.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 11:22 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
And while they're nice people, cashiers are the least value-add to the whole fast food experience.
Who talks like this?
People who's business don't run out of money in 3 months.
posted by sideshow at 11:23 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Who talks like this?
People who's business don't run out of money in 3 months.
posted by sideshow at 11:23 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
That's a tired argument, even among the host of tired arguments found among people uncritically defending the current wave of automation.
posted by codacorolla at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2015
How impactful is your value-add in the social media experience?
It's low. I don't have any OKRs in that area.
posted by GuyZero at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's low. I don't have any OKRs in that area.
posted by GuyZero at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Because unlike a normal automat anybody can open up a door with food on it and take the food out by tapping twice on a container.
Disruption!
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:25 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Disruption!
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:25 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Anyway, not to pick on you GregNog. My failure to embrace the modern business world is why I currently live in the mountains with a cat and horrible internet service. The nearest kids are miles away from my non-existent lawn.
posted by krinklyfig at 11:26 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by krinklyfig at 11:26 AM on September 2, 2015
The money that goes into the machines pays the people who make and maintain the machine. The money that is saved on wages gets spent somewhere else — on someone else's wages.
I believe you mean that some of the money gets spent somewhere else. If it weren't cheaper, (most) businesses wouldn't automate, and prices rarely drop to compensate.
posted by Etrigan at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I believe you mean that some of the money gets spent somewhere else. If it weren't cheaper, (most) businesses wouldn't automate, and prices rarely drop to compensate.
posted by Etrigan at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
So you walk in and there's not a cashier in sight. Big deal, the same can be said of my local McDonalds.
posted by ckape at 11:28 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by ckape at 11:28 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
McDonalds is also going with totally automated ordering.
posted by GuyZero at 11:31 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by GuyZero at 11:31 AM on September 2, 2015
I believe you mean that some of the money gets spent somewhere else. If it weren't cheaper, (most) businesses wouldn't automate, and prices rarely drop to compensate.
Yes, it's cheaper, and yes those savings won't be passed on to the consumer until competition forces the business to lower prices. But the business owner is saving money, which he spends on other people.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes, it's cheaper, and yes those savings won't be passed on to the consumer until competition forces the business to lower prices. But the business owner is saving money, which he spends on other people.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't understand this compulsion to pretend that things are fully automated in the face of all evidence to the contrary.
See, for another example, this Wired article about Slack "bots":
posted by waninggibbon at 11:35 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
See, for another example, this Wired article about Slack "bots":
Slack, unlike Twitter, labels its bots. There’s no wondering if you’re talking to a real person. Ferrara says this is vital part in keeping the bot-human divide. This will be more important as the number of bots rises. Already there are companies like Large that will make them for you. Need to order lunch? Ask @large. Fridge low on beer? Ping @large. Its latest endeavor: A Slack bot that orders ice cream.Never mind that Large's FAQ section says:
When talking to Large, is it a person or a bot helping me?It's giving me a semantic migraine!
Large is powered by a distributed network of people who can offer you personalized service but they're bolstered by our super-human software.
posted by waninggibbon at 11:35 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
eople made the exact same argument as you did during the industrial revolution. "The machines are taking all of our jobs!" But it's not true. The machines automate some jobs, people move on to other jobs and total wealth increases.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
But the business owner is saving money, which he spends on other people.
This goes two ways, actually.
Either the business owner is actually spreading his own wealth around the community, thus seeding local economic development, or he is not.
Exactly which is happening differs from business owner to business owner.
posted by hippybear at 11:37 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
This goes two ways, actually.
Either the business owner is actually spreading his own wealth around the community, thus seeding local economic development, or he is not.
Exactly which is happening differs from business owner to business owner.
posted by hippybear at 11:37 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
people move on to other jobs
Eventually, maybe...
and total wealth increases.
Not necessarily for the people moving on to other jobs.
posted by drezdn at 11:37 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Eventually, maybe...
and total wealth increases.
Not necessarily for the people moving on to other jobs.
posted by drezdn at 11:37 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Either the business owner is actually spreading his own wealth around the community, thus seeding local economic development, or he is not.
How does a business owner not spend her money? Do you think she's burying it in her backyard? All money is spent on people.
total wealth increases.
Not necessarily for the people moving on to other jobs.
Total wealth increases. How that is split depends on wealth redistribution.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 11:49 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
How does a business owner not spend her money? Do you think she's burying it in her backyard? All money is spent on people.
total wealth increases.
Not necessarily for the people moving on to other jobs.
Total wealth increases. How that is split depends on wealth redistribution.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 11:49 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Every discussion of productivity on Metafilter turns into a rehash of Malthus.
If you think that this productivity improvement is going to lead to a lower standard of living versus every other productivity improvement in the past 3,000 years of human history the onus is on you to make the case.
posted by GuyZero at 11:49 AM on September 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
Every discussion of productivity on Metafilter turns into a rehash of Malthus.
If you think that this productivity improvement is going to lead to a lower standard of living versus every other productivity improvement in the past 3,000 years of human history the onus is on you to make the case.
posted by GuyZero at 11:49 AM on September 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
That's the way it should work; wages high enough to decently compensate workers for their time and labour should start a process of asking which jobs do we still need human labour for, and then ultimately a universal basic income and a utopia where we are all watched over by machines of loving grace as we do what we feel like, rather than what we're compelled to.
posted by acb at 11:50 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by acb at 11:50 AM on September 2, 2015
How does a business owner not spend her money?
Swiss Bank Account?
posted by drezdn at 11:53 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Swiss Bank Account?
posted by drezdn at 11:53 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
How does a business owner not spend her money?
Swiss Bank Account?
Why do you think the Swiss bank is paying her interest? What do you think they are doing with the money?
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 11:56 AM on September 2, 2015
Swiss Bank Account?
Why do you think the Swiss bank is paying her interest? What do you think they are doing with the money?
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 11:56 AM on September 2, 2015
Probably nothing in her community.
posted by drezdn at 11:57 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 11:57 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. esprit de l'escalier, knock it off.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:12 PM on September 2, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:12 PM on September 2, 2015
If you think that this productivity improvement is going to lead to a lower standard of living versus every other productivity improvement in the past 3,000 years of human history the onus is on you to make the case.
I've never even seen an argument, good or bad, that productivity improvements have a good effect on the generation who falls afoul of them. It's always just "*handwave handwave* prosperity!" I mean, maybe people in the future will be better off thanks to automation, but that's no comfort whatsoever to the people who will suffer from it right now, and esprit de l'escalier's "oh it's just a distribution problem" is the same refrain we see everywhere, as though technology is value neutral and the "political stuff" is the easy part.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:12 PM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
I've never even seen an argument, good or bad, that productivity improvements have a good effect on the generation who falls afoul of them. It's always just "*handwave handwave* prosperity!" I mean, maybe people in the future will be better off thanks to automation, but that's no comfort whatsoever to the people who will suffer from it right now, and esprit de l'escalier's "oh it's just a distribution problem" is the same refrain we see everywhere, as though technology is value neutral and the "political stuff" is the easy part.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:12 PM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Eatsa: it's like Uber, but for dining alone. So alone.
Eatsa: when you're here, your family (isn't)
posted by blue_beetle at 12:20 PM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Eatsa: when you're here, your family (isn't)
posted by blue_beetle at 12:20 PM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Eatsa: you know you can get a $6 quinoa salad at Starbucks without all this bullshit, right?
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:24 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:24 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't agree that "people in your community" have a special right to happiness over people in other communities. Americans, for example, are not entitled to a higher standard of living than Nigerians. What is this idea of keeping money in the community based on?
Anyway, if the business owner is being paid in American dollars, then the business owner (or Swiss bank) has to spend the money in America.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 12:30 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Anyway, if the business owner is being paid in American dollars, then the business owner (or Swiss bank) has to spend the money in America.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 12:30 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was an accidental early tester a few months ago - I was walking by a no-name storefront they had borrowed to test some sample menus and they were inviting every passerby in to try a free meal. The food was healthy and tasty. Then a few weeks ago I got an email inviting me to a special free preview lunch at their actual location, which I decided to turn down when they sent me (no joke) an NDA to sign. Because, you know, someone might have stolen their automat idea in the week between preview lunch and opening day.
posted by twsf at 12:30 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by twsf at 12:30 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anyway, if the business owner is being paid in American dollars, then the business owner (or Swiss bank) has to spend the money in America.
This is a laughably naive view of international trade.
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is a laughably naive view of international trade.
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I was walking by a no-name storefront they had borrowed to test some sample menus and they were inviting every passerby in to try a free meal.
Please tell us that it was a robot inviting you in.
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Please tell us that it was a robot inviting you in.
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
A realistic understanding that if the money leaves your neighborhood, nearly all of the profit is going to be eaten up by huge corporations and the 1% and precious little to people you actually know?
I don't know why money that "stays in your neighborhood" doesn't get "eaten up by huge corporations". No idea what you're buying, but suppose that's true. I still think the answer is strong wealth redistribution.
This is a laughably naive view of international trade.
The use of the American dollar as a reserve currency and an actual currency in some countries is only beneficial to Americans. Anyway, pick any other currency if the American dollar adds too many complications. Say the Canadian dollar. All Canadian dollars are spent in Canada.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 12:34 PM on September 2, 2015
I don't know why money that "stays in your neighborhood" doesn't get "eaten up by huge corporations". No idea what you're buying, but suppose that's true. I still think the answer is strong wealth redistribution.
This is a laughably naive view of international trade.
The use of the American dollar as a reserve currency and an actual currency in some countries is only beneficial to Americans. Anyway, pick any other currency if the American dollar adds too many complications. Say the Canadian dollar. All Canadian dollars are spent in Canada.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 12:34 PM on September 2, 2015
How does a business owner not spend her money? Do you think she's burying it in her backyard? All money is spent on people.
IIRC, Google has tens of billions they're just sitting on. Many people who own businesses with enough money invest in real estate and rent-seeking (other than rental) opportunities. That's been one of the problems with the post-2008 economy. The people who have money are looking for investments that don't necessarily put people to work, or they're just sitting on cash.
posted by krinklyfig at 12:38 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
IIRC, Google has tens of billions they're just sitting on. Many people who own businesses with enough money invest in real estate and rent-seeking (other than rental) opportunities. That's been one of the problems with the post-2008 economy. The people who have money are looking for investments that don't necessarily put people to work, or they're just sitting on cash.
posted by krinklyfig at 12:38 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
> Maybe I'm grumpy, unimaginative, or utterly failing at reading comprehension today but I honestly don't get the reinvention part of Eatsa, nor do I get how it will ultimately stay in business.
I think this is all just part of the "Sword in the Stone"/"Emperor's New Clothes" mash-up that is SF. That is, when the right voice finally says it's all bullshit, it will make everyone else see that it is, in fact, all bullshit.
posted by cardioid at 12:45 PM on September 2, 2015
I think this is all just part of the "Sword in the Stone"/"Emperor's New Clothes" mash-up that is SF. That is, when the right voice finally says it's all bullshit, it will make everyone else see that it is, in fact, all bullshit.
posted by cardioid at 12:45 PM on September 2, 2015
I would eat food out of a replicator.
posted by mountmccabe at 12:47 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mountmccabe at 12:47 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Uh, I think the sushi chef is busted again.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:49 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:49 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
The people who have money are looking for investments that don't necessarily put people to work, or they're just sitting on cash.
Yes, but when people "sit on cash", they leave in a bank who invests it. This dream of yours of "more spending" could be easily realized by any central bank that wanted to buy back bonds and increase the money supply. When there's a fear of inflation, that doesn't happen. Even if there was a lot more spending, if it ever became inflationary, the central bank would fight against that by selling bonds to decrease the money supply.
In other words, this dream of trying to increase spending is actively controlled by the central bank. So I think this anger at efficiency is misplaced.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 12:50 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, but when people "sit on cash", they leave in a bank who invests it. This dream of yours of "more spending" could be easily realized by any central bank that wanted to buy back bonds and increase the money supply. When there's a fear of inflation, that doesn't happen. Even if there was a lot more spending, if it ever became inflationary, the central bank would fight against that by selling bonds to decrease the money supply.
In other words, this dream of trying to increase spending is actively controlled by the central bank. So I think this anger at efficiency is misplaced.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 12:50 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
TheWhiteSkull: "Uh, I think the sushi chef is busted again. "
"Finally, man has created a robot that is capable of having a stroke."
posted by boo_radley at 12:54 PM on September 2, 2015
"Finally, man has created a robot that is capable of having a stroke."
posted by boo_radley at 12:54 PM on September 2, 2015
Money spent on automation is money spent not hiring people. That's the point of automation. To not have a person do the thing anymore. Because people are less efficient. Automation is important. I am not saying "all automation is bad".
The IT projects I seek funding for and work on, are driven by a capital investment principle of having as few people do as much work as possible. In my view the world I am helping build cares less for the complex nature of the human element involved with a decision or action in the process in favor of more black and white decision trees that can be handled by less complex silicon-based solutions. That world looks rather bleak to me and I am sad to be making a world where human judgement is viewed as a problem to eliminate.
What I see and experience bothers me, in that it feels like capital would rather eliminate the human equation entirely from any capital investment made.
I am trying to talk specifically about how the driving principles of capital investment decisions seem to have gone to a really bonkers place and I am doing a really awful job at it. So I'll stop now.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:59 PM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
The IT projects I seek funding for and work on, are driven by a capital investment principle of having as few people do as much work as possible. In my view the world I am helping build cares less for the complex nature of the human element involved with a decision or action in the process in favor of more black and white decision trees that can be handled by less complex silicon-based solutions. That world looks rather bleak to me and I am sad to be making a world where human judgement is viewed as a problem to eliminate.
What I see and experience bothers me, in that it feels like capital would rather eliminate the human equation entirely from any capital investment made.
I am trying to talk specifically about how the driving principles of capital investment decisions seem to have gone to a really bonkers place and I am doing a really awful job at it. So I'll stop now.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:59 PM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Points to a chart of entirely made up numbers: "So you see, the dozen engineers and team of highly skilled maintenance people are actually a net 0 for the economy when you consider the thousands of displaced low skilled workers! It's just math, people!"
posted by codacorolla at 1:10 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 1:10 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
People just move on to different jobs! What do you mean, did buggy whip makers get jobs at car plants? How should I know? What do you mean, will truck drivers get jobs as automated vehicle maintenance personnel? How should I know?
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 1:16 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 1:16 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
You can't hold back the march of technology, and anyway money just needs to be distributed more evenly, and this technology will totally not make that any harder by concentrating that money into the hands of fewer people.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 1:18 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 1:18 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
esprit, total wealth does not necessarily increase. You're talking like there's no such things as bad investments, (bubbles), business losses and depreciation. And anyway the concern that people have here is with respect to building local wealth, spending that benefits the working class, not some abstract aggregate spending measure, which may benefit only the top of the wealth pyramid, leaving the masses in rags. The idea that because someone has wealth, it will eventually trickle down to everyone has been demonstrated over and over again to not be true.
Anyway, back on point, regardless of whether cashiers are nice or enjoyable to interact with, they are people who can actually respond to you, for you to ask for condiments and extra napkins, to complain about undercooked or missing items, to make suggestions to, to ask for a table cleanup, and so on. If there's only one staff person available to speak with, that's another possible source of friction.
I think when the novelty of a faux-hermetic restaurant experience wears off, consumers will miss having a point of human interaction. I mean, this is not a new concept, and based on the past, seems not at all to be a guaranteed success. Even Amsterdam's FEBO, arguably the most successful recent iteration of this concept, has actual cashiers. If eatsa can charge much less than a typical eatery and maintain the same quality of food and cleanliness, then people may respond. But if the concept catches on, they may have to continue to charge much less since there will be fewer unskilled laborers with a steady income who can afford eating there. It could be another race to the bottom.
If the USA were a different sort of society that had a more robust mechanism for assisting and retraining people whose jobs were eliminated, unskilled labor's endgame would be less of a concern to people. As it stands now, people dread having to deal with what we have: a nightmarish patchwork of unemployment, SNAP, undischargeable student loans, day care, SSI/SSD, Section 8, and other programs that are constantly under attack for their supposed overgenerosity.
posted by xigxag at 1:20 PM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Anyway, back on point, regardless of whether cashiers are nice or enjoyable to interact with, they are people who can actually respond to you, for you to ask for condiments and extra napkins, to complain about undercooked or missing items, to make suggestions to, to ask for a table cleanup, and so on. If there's only one staff person available to speak with, that's another possible source of friction.
I think when the novelty of a faux-hermetic restaurant experience wears off, consumers will miss having a point of human interaction. I mean, this is not a new concept, and based on the past, seems not at all to be a guaranteed success. Even Amsterdam's FEBO, arguably the most successful recent iteration of this concept, has actual cashiers. If eatsa can charge much less than a typical eatery and maintain the same quality of food and cleanliness, then people may respond. But if the concept catches on, they may have to continue to charge much less since there will be fewer unskilled laborers with a steady income who can afford eating there. It could be another race to the bottom.
If the USA were a different sort of society that had a more robust mechanism for assisting and retraining people whose jobs were eliminated, unskilled labor's endgame would be less of a concern to people. As it stands now, people dread having to deal with what we have: a nightmarish patchwork of unemployment, SNAP, undischargeable student loans, day care, SSI/SSD, Section 8, and other programs that are constantly under attack for their supposed overgenerosity.
posted by xigxag at 1:20 PM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
That's a tired argument, even among the host of tired arguments found among people uncritically defending the current wave of automation.
Yeah, well all automation arguments are pretty tired, and end up in the same place. "Nothing can be done, it's inevitable. All you can do is be aware and despair of the incredibly horrible future we're facing."
I am sad to be making a world where human judgement is viewed as a problem to eliminate.
And yet, you're still doing it, willingly. So really, so who is there for you to blame?
posted by happyroach at 1:24 PM on September 2, 2015
Yeah, well all automation arguments are pretty tired, and end up in the same place. "Nothing can be done, it's inevitable. All you can do is be aware and despair of the incredibly horrible future we're facing."
I am sad to be making a world where human judgement is viewed as a problem to eliminate.
And yet, you're still doing it, willingly. So really, so who is there for you to blame?
posted by happyroach at 1:24 PM on September 2, 2015
I raise enough hell at work about it to be heard and mostly ignored. And way to assume a lot there. I'm actually on a track to get out of it, thank you very much.
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:30 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:30 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
" "Nothing can be done, it's inevitable. All you can do is be aware and despair of the incredibly horrible future we're facing.""
Not having to do physical labour is not much of a "horrible future" for me. Automation should be welcome. Hell should not be raised about automation. Hell should be raised at how our society and economic system isn't able to handle efficiency and a lack of work.
posted by I-baLL at 1:35 PM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not having to do physical labour is not much of a "horrible future" for me. Automation should be welcome. Hell should not be raised about automation. Hell should be raised at how our society and economic system isn't able to handle efficiency and a lack of work.
posted by I-baLL at 1:35 PM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Cashier jobs as separate jobs are going extinct anyway. A lot of retail outlets (supermarket, drugstore, hardware) are fading out these jobs in favor of self-service lanes or kiosks, while others bake the cashier workflow into general customer service (Apple store salespeople charge your purchase on a handheld credit card reader, for example). I generally have pleasant enough interactions with cashiers ("how's it going?" "fine, how're you?" "good thanks"), but that's not really the peak example of "human contact" for a person's day, is it?
For a fast food place to do this, and a little more, is kind of cool but not as "disruptive" or radical as it could be.
posted by theorique at 1:48 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
For a fast food place to do this, and a little more, is kind of cool but not as "disruptive" or radical as it could be.
posted by theorique at 1:48 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
I was disappointed the article says absolutely nothing about Uber, or the minimum wage at all. Can't we rehash those arguments again? I can't remember where everyone stands on those issues.
posted by 2N2222 at 1:55 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 1:55 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
i-ball: when the automation solutions add friction to the end-user experience by forcing people into rigid processes that don't allow for variant human situations and reduce features and capabilities because "people are too expensive", then it's a problem to raise hell about.
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:56 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:56 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Point of interest: there was a pancake machine at the hotel I stayed at last weekend. Push one button, wait exactly one minute, and out pop two unremarkable pancakes. It was part of the free breakfast bar, of course, but also offered to us at check-in. ("Pancakes at Midnight", the nice Caribbean front-desk clerk called it, which made me wonder for a split second if it was Shrove Tuesday.)
"This is the first step to the foodarackacycle," I said.
posted by Soliloquy at 2:03 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
"This is the first step to the foodarackacycle," I said.
posted by Soliloquy at 2:03 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I always liked The Flintstones better than The Jetsons. I'd rather have my food prepared with various sarcastic, work-weary animals used as implements and appliances.
posted by dgaicun at 2:31 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dgaicun at 2:31 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was going to bring up the slavery aspect, but I guess in a world of intelligent, sarcastic AI like Rosie, it's sort of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
posted by codacorolla at 2:59 PM on September 2, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 2:59 PM on September 2, 2015
Hold on. Did NOBODY notice that fucking TRANSPARENT SCREEN they have in this picture? I might have just been living under a rock for the past few years, but I have never once in my life (or even in photos) seen a TRANSPARENT SCREEN (and it looks like it's a transparent TOUCH SCREEN)!
Seriously, how do they display her name on glass like that? Is that just common technology now? HOLY SHIT!!
posted by pravit at 3:39 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seriously, how do they display her name on glass like that? Is that just common technology now? HOLY SHIT!!
posted by pravit at 3:39 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
While Foods has fridge-sized transparent screens on some drink cooler near me. It runs animated ads and you can still see the drinks. I think this is mostly standard display tech.
posted by GuyZero at 4:21 PM on September 2, 2015
posted by GuyZero at 4:21 PM on September 2, 2015
I wasn't assuming the worst of you, Annika. People made the exact same argument as you did during the industrial revolution. "The machines are taking all of our jobs!" But it's not true. The machines automate some jobs, people move on to other jobs and total wealth increases.
This was true with the move of workers from farms to factories.
You are arguing that if a programmer or robotics engineer replaces a hundred warehouse workers, factory assembly-line workers, truck drivers, or cashiers with a robot or program, that's no problem because all of those warehouse workers, assembly-line worker, truck drivers, and cashiers can all find jobs being programmers or robotics engineers.
I think many of them will end up without a job.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:45 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
This was true with the move of workers from farms to factories.
You are arguing that if a programmer or robotics engineer replaces a hundred warehouse workers, factory assembly-line workers, truck drivers, or cashiers with a robot or program, that's no problem because all of those warehouse workers, assembly-line worker, truck drivers, and cashiers can all find jobs being programmers or robotics engineers.
I think many of them will end up without a job.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:45 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I never thought I would be one of those people who say "Metafilter has the ability to be outraged by anything", but seriously, Metafilter has the ability to turn anything into outragefilter. Can't we just laugh at the concept (even if you hate dealing with people dealing with cashiers is usually the least of your problems) and admire the cool transparent screens?
1. What on earth does $15/hr wages have to do with ANYTHING? There are people behind the wall making the food. They might even get paid MORE than $15/hr. Probably not, but we have no clue. It's needlessly pressing people's outrage buttons. Silicon Valley people are not Randian robber baron capitalists determined to pay people nothing. Didn't you hear about that tech CEO who decided to pay every single one of his workers $70k/year?
2. What this restaurant does is eliminate a cashier. OK, you can argue, that's one less cashier job, but that's assuming that whatever would have opened in this spot INSTEAD would have employed a cashier, or that it would have been a restaurant. I mean, by that logic, you should be angry every time a fast food restaurant opens, because those typically have fewer front of house staff than full service restaurants (no waiters), and isn't that eliminating jobs?
3. This is really not that different from a restaurant-sized vending machine that reheats frozen food. I mean, again, by the logic that "technology destroys jobs", you should be angry that people can go to the grocery store and buy frozen food packages instead of having to patronize restaurants. Also, I suspect anyone who goes here specifically because they hate dealing with fast food workers, would have just been living off frozen pizzas anyway.
4. Americans actually LIKE dealing with people. Like, they like having banter with their grocery store cashiers or chit chatting with the barista or shit like that. And how many Yelp reviews have you read where people are whining about the service being "unfriendly" even if the food was fine? This restaurant works as a proof of concept but it isn't going to catch on in the US at least. Not to mention the initial costs must be ridiculously high just compared to hiring a cashier for minimum wage. I mean I live in NYC and there are so many places that can't even take credit card; it's still mostly a cash economy for daily purchases.
posted by pravit at 7:10 PM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
1. What on earth does $15/hr wages have to do with ANYTHING? There are people behind the wall making the food. They might even get paid MORE than $15/hr. Probably not, but we have no clue. It's needlessly pressing people's outrage buttons. Silicon Valley people are not Randian robber baron capitalists determined to pay people nothing. Didn't you hear about that tech CEO who decided to pay every single one of his workers $70k/year?
2. What this restaurant does is eliminate a cashier. OK, you can argue, that's one less cashier job, but that's assuming that whatever would have opened in this spot INSTEAD would have employed a cashier, or that it would have been a restaurant. I mean, by that logic, you should be angry every time a fast food restaurant opens, because those typically have fewer front of house staff than full service restaurants (no waiters), and isn't that eliminating jobs?
3. This is really not that different from a restaurant-sized vending machine that reheats frozen food. I mean, again, by the logic that "technology destroys jobs", you should be angry that people can go to the grocery store and buy frozen food packages instead of having to patronize restaurants. Also, I suspect anyone who goes here specifically because they hate dealing with fast food workers, would have just been living off frozen pizzas anyway.
4. Americans actually LIKE dealing with people. Like, they like having banter with their grocery store cashiers or chit chatting with the barista or shit like that. And how many Yelp reviews have you read where people are whining about the service being "unfriendly" even if the food was fine? This restaurant works as a proof of concept but it isn't going to catch on in the US at least. Not to mention the initial costs must be ridiculously high just compared to hiring a cashier for minimum wage. I mean I live in NYC and there are so many places that can't even take credit card; it's still mostly a cash economy for daily purchases.
posted by pravit at 7:10 PM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
I normally assume Yelp complaints about "unfriendly" staff really mean the staff wasn't servile enough for the reviewer.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 7:58 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 7:58 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
. Silicon Valley people are not Randian robber baron capitalists determined to pay people nothing. Didn't you hear about that tech CEO who decided to pay every single one of his workers $70k/year?
That was in Seattle and the company was a credit card processor, not tech. But it was a CEO, that's true!
posted by the agents of KAOS at 10:34 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
That was in Seattle and the company was a credit card processor, not tech. But it was a CEO, that's true!
posted by the agents of KAOS at 10:34 PM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
People who's business don't run out of money in 3 months.
And if everything, and I mean everything, comes down to profits then we are officially in hell, a hell so complete and final that there's no point in bothering to care about anything, even voting.
That's why I reject you comment, because I think it fosters malaise and acceptance of the status quo, and right now the status quo is fascism. I don't think things are as bad as that. Yet. I still believe we can have a future where no one is rich and no one is poor and everyone gets a fair shake, at least more fair than what we have today which is basically nothing more than birth lotteries.
posted by Beholder at 11:20 PM on September 2, 2015
And if everything, and I mean everything, comes down to profits then we are officially in hell, a hell so complete and final that there's no point in bothering to care about anything, even voting.
That's why I reject you comment, because I think it fosters malaise and acceptance of the status quo, and right now the status quo is fascism. I don't think things are as bad as that. Yet. I still believe we can have a future where no one is rich and no one is poor and everyone gets a fair shake, at least more fair than what we have today which is basically nothing more than birth lotteries.
posted by Beholder at 11:20 PM on September 2, 2015
Reminds me of the sushi restaurants in Japan where you order from a touchscreen and a little train brings your food to you. (Not the conveyer belt style where its premade, this is on-demand but waiter has been replaced with little train).
In general though Americans seem to prefer having waitstaff compared to Japanese.
posted by thefoxgod at 11:51 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
In general though Americans seem to prefer having waitstaff compared to Japanese.
posted by thefoxgod at 11:51 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
yeah if i had to work in food service i would definitely want a solid wall between me and any customers just on principle, that is true
There is a reason why so many restaurants aren't open kitchen.
One of my favourite places (Banh Mi Boys), you go in and order from a cashier, then you go round the side to get your order--the actual people cooking the food hand it to you, ask you how hot you want it. Doesn't seem to be any corporate clone speak, the line that's visible is spotless, and the food is amazing. (Kimchi friiiiiiiiies)
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:40 AM on September 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is a reason why so many restaurants aren't open kitchen.
One of my favourite places (Banh Mi Boys), you go in and order from a cashier, then you go round the side to get your order--the actual people cooking the food hand it to you, ask you how hot you want it. Doesn't seem to be any corporate clone speak, the line that's visible is spotless, and the food is amazing. (Kimchi friiiiiiiiies)
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:40 AM on September 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was glad to see some FEBO mentions above, but disappointed no one has raised the other end of the human-intensive food services spectrum, Dabawallas.
Not that I have any experience of it.
posted by one weird trick at 4:38 AM on September 3, 2015
Not that I have any experience of it.
posted by one weird trick at 4:38 AM on September 3, 2015
From a cultural standpoint, MeFi's particular hate for Silicon Valley over, say, tried and true bugbears like Wall Street or those Clowns in Congress is probably because the nouveau nouveau riche is usually less refined and more ostentatious than the nouveau riche and traditional aristocracy, thus painting themselves to be bigger targets. That hate will be redirected once Seattle or Austin becomes the next big tech hub after the current bubble bursts. Will it be fueled by animosity for the Bezos dehumanizing commercial machine, or by how less weird they've made ATX? Stay tuned!
posted by Apocryphon at 10:29 AM on September 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 10:29 AM on September 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you don't think plenty of hate gets expressed on MeFi for Wall Street or Jeff Bezos, you haven't been paying attention, like at all. As for congress, MeFi's collective opinion is more nuanced (although you could to a much lesser extent say the same for Silicon Valley...not so much for Wall Street).
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 10:54 AM on September 3, 2015
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 10:54 AM on September 3, 2015
Of course there's plenty of hate for those as well. I just think that SV gets singled out as a metonym for MeFi hatred. That singling out will inevitably lessen once the economic correction happens, and then we'll move on to hating the next wave of obnoxious nouveau nouveau nouveau riche.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:40 PM on September 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 1:40 PM on September 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
As someone that likes technology, my hatred of (parts of the) startup culture (not just SV) in general is more directed at the "it's like some old thing that existed, but it has TOUCHSCREENS and an IPHONE APP and #connectivity so we're totally geniuses" and the press that gobbles it up. Some of the stuff that I've seen described as "disruptive" (and fuck me, the assholes love using that word) in reality is more akin to a wet fart than the earthquake the creators think it is.
posted by lmfsilva at 2:14 PM on September 3, 2015
posted by lmfsilva at 2:14 PM on September 3, 2015
I just think that SV gets singled out as a metonym for MeFi hatred.
And I don't!
Disruption is the new "creative destruction," which was the new "greed is good".
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 7:01 AM on September 4, 2015
And I don't!
Disruption is the new "creative destruction," which was the new "greed is good".
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 7:01 AM on September 4, 2015
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posted by Diablevert at 8:49 AM on September 2, 2015