The 100 Hardest Video Game Bosses
September 26, 2017 10:06 AM Subscribe
A definitive list of video game bosses, accurately ordered by difficulty Nothing to discuss.
Not a bad list. I'm really familiar with the Souls series, and their ranking seems about right for that (although I'd put Rom ahead of Shadows). Obviously no list is comprehensive nor perfect, so my own addition would be the optional boss in Path of Exile's Labyrinth, Izaro. Up to that point things have been tricky sometimes, but never a huge challenge. Izaro can easily kill you in a single hit, moves lighting fast, and has huge defensive stats. And when you die you have to start the whole challenging area over again. That is where I quit Path of Exile.
posted by codacorolla at 10:29 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 10:29 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ctrl-F wizard of yendor
0 results
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 10:30 AM on September 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
0 results
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 10:30 AM on September 26, 2017 [23 favorites]
Rodney is more irritating than difficult. Now let's talk Demogorgon
posted by theodolite at 10:32 AM on September 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 10:32 AM on September 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
Since I always had a hard time getting past Mission 5 on "Star Blazer" on the Apple II+ I am disappointed that's not on this list. The little blue canary that stole the fuel was like a boss.
posted by chavenet at 10:33 AM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 10:33 AM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Glad to see Crawmerax and Terramorphous, but then why not Vermivorous or Pete? Even if they don't want to include DLC, Vermy is harder than Terry.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:36 AM on September 26, 2017
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:36 AM on September 26, 2017
It's amazing to me that you can completely avoid this aspect of gaming. I don't really play games with bosses in them. The only one of these I've even encountered was Daud and only an idiot would take him head on when you start the level with the drop on him.
posted by selfnoise at 10:41 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 10:41 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wow, no FF1 Warmech?
And is the 64 Bowser *really* harder than the New SMB Wii Bowser? Never played the former, but only once have I been able to beat the latter.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:43 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
And is the 64 Bowser *really* harder than the New SMB Wii Bowser? Never played the former, but only once have I been able to beat the latter.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:43 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I could think of some other bosses, but a few of them aren't "hard" as much as "this isn't like the rest of the game, fuckos", or "you can't do "epic" with this engine, don't try". Plus, the author certainly never heard of a little company called SNK that took some perverted fun in making "nintendo hard" look like a tutorial. Because fuck me, Amakusa and Rugal'94 ? I've done actual laps of honor at home after finally beating them.
I've recently finished MG:R, and hearing Senator Armstrong mentioning "make America great again" is clearly a sign reality is breaking up. And yeah, tough. Cruised through the game with little difficulty, but it spikes at the end a lot, and not even maxing up helps much with Armstrong. Most Platinum games are like this.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:46 AM on September 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I've recently finished MG:R, and hearing Senator Armstrong mentioning "make America great again" is clearly a sign reality is breaking up. And yeah, tough. Cruised through the game with little difficulty, but it spikes at the end a lot, and not even maxing up helps much with Armstrong. Most Platinum games are like this.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:46 AM on September 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Years ago I played the old west game called (I think), Gun, on the XBox. The final boss a large human man who throws easily dodged dynamite. I ran up and unloaded a full magzine from a .70 caliber repeating buffalo rifle point blank into his face to inflict exactly zero damage. I lost interest quickly after that.
It was Gun, and the villain, voiced by Lance Henrikson, was a complete cheapout. First they teach you to shoot well as a way to do well. Then they make him initially bulletproof and you have to shoot geysers underneath him, with no hint of this at all. THEN he goes up on a natural balcony and throws dynamite at you. You STILL can't shoot him, but you have to use the shockwaves from shooting the dynamite out of the air close to him.
Great game ending with that complete crap. You DO NOT change mechanics midstream, in my opinion.
posted by Samizdata at 10:48 AM on September 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
It was Gun, and the villain, voiced by Lance Henrikson, was a complete cheapout. First they teach you to shoot well as a way to do well. Then they make him initially bulletproof and you have to shoot geysers underneath him, with no hint of this at all. THEN he goes up on a natural balcony and throws dynamite at you. You STILL can't shoot him, but you have to use the shockwaves from shooting the dynamite out of the air close to him.
Great game ending with that complete crap. You DO NOT change mechanics midstream, in my opinion.
posted by Samizdata at 10:48 AM on September 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Artorias is way easier than Manus, c'mon.
(Also Wiegraf is easy to chump by exploiting a bug that makes the game think that Lightning Stab does electric damage, so he won't use it if you're wearing rubber shoes. Then all you have to do is abuse Yell/Accumulate until get five turns to every one he gets, one shot him, and then one-shot him again. God, FFT was so great.)
posted by dismas at 10:48 AM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Also Wiegraf is easy to chump by exploiting a bug that makes the game think that Lightning Stab does electric damage, so he won't use it if you're wearing rubber shoes. Then all you have to do is abuse Yell/Accumulate until get five turns to every one he gets, one shot him, and then one-shot him again. God, FFT was so great.)
posted by dismas at 10:48 AM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Dr. Wily's weird yellow chunkmonster was way harder in Mega Man 3, where you couldn't exploit the Elec/Select trick. C'mon, man.
posted by duffell at 10:52 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by duffell at 10:52 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you going to include interstitial bosses (e.g. Lady Comstock) then how about the dragon-thing in Far Cry 4's Shangri La?
posted by achrise at 10:54 AM on September 26, 2017
posted by achrise at 10:54 AM on September 26, 2017
Kai Leng? The only challenging enemies in single-player Mass Effect 3 are Banshees, because of their one-hit kill ability and teleportation. Kai Leng is a pushover. Same for Matriarch Benezia in ME1; the real challenge is dealing with your attackers if you go get Liara first, but mainly because there are few enemies before the boss battle so you don't have the chance to level up.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 10:54 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 10:54 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's like they've never even seen the final wizard in Dungeons of Daggorath. I mean, the fucker takes like three shots with a ring and about 50 whacks with the elvish sword.
And what about the robot at the end of Zaxxon. I mean, COME ON.
Kids today.
posted by bondcliff at 10:54 AM on September 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
And what about the robot at the end of Zaxxon. I mean, COME ON.
Kids today.
posted by bondcliff at 10:54 AM on September 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
ctrl-f Matador
0 results.
I don't understand how this list can exist without including anything from any proper Shin Megami Tensei game. (Okay, Reaper from Persona 3 is there, but are you fucking kidding me, Elizabeth wipes the floor with Reaper) I mean, in Nocturne, you can die in the tutorial if you're not paying attention.
I 100% agree on the Vortex Queen being on there. 10-year-old me knows her nemesis.
posted by ultranos at 10:55 AM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
0 results.
I don't understand how this list can exist without including anything from any proper Shin Megami Tensei game. (Okay, Reaper from Persona 3 is there, but are you fucking kidding me, Elizabeth wipes the floor with Reaper) I mean, in Nocturne, you can die in the tutorial if you're not paying attention.
I 100% agree on the Vortex Queen being on there. 10-year-old me knows her nemesis.
posted by ultranos at 10:55 AM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Evil Otto. :)
posted by Guy Smiley at 10:55 AM on September 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Guy Smiley at 10:55 AM on September 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
that katamari level with the crabs tho
posted by poffin boffin at 10:56 AM on September 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 10:56 AM on September 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Where oh where is the Arishok from Dragon Age 2? The Qunari 2-handed warrior who you're forced to fight in single combat regardless of your own build (thanks, Fenris!), so your mage and/or rogue Hawkes spend an hour or so running in circles and chugging health potions.
posted by bibliowench at 10:57 AM on September 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 10:57 AM on September 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
It was Gun, and the villain, voiced by Lance Henrikson, was a complete cheapout. First they teach you to shoot well as a way to do well. Then they make him initially bulletproof and you have to shoot geysers underneath him, with no hint of this at all. THEN he goes up on a natural balcony and throws dynamite at you. You STILL can't shoot him, but you have to use the shockwaves from shooting the dynamite out of the air close to him.
Great game ending with that complete crap. You DO NOT change mechanics midstream, in my opinion.
This is one of the most frustrating boss designs possible. Another example comes from the very solid European RPG Risen, which up to that point is all about (as one would expect) careful strategy and resource management. The final boss is a Legend of Zelda type boss, with attack patterns, a glowing weak point, and an arena that requires platforming. Probably the sort of thing that looks good in the design doc, and is a complete pain in the ass to actually play.
posted by codacorolla at 11:00 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Great game ending with that complete crap. You DO NOT change mechanics midstream, in my opinion.
This is one of the most frustrating boss designs possible. Another example comes from the very solid European RPG Risen, which up to that point is all about (as one would expect) careful strategy and resource management. The final boss is a Legend of Zelda type boss, with attack patterns, a glowing weak point, and an arena that requires platforming. Probably the sort of thing that looks good in the design doc, and is a complete pain in the ass to actually play.
posted by codacorolla at 11:00 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
The worm, De Rol Lee in Phantasy Star Online. Several of the bosses in Super Meat Boy.
posted by tehjoel at 11:03 AM on September 26, 2017
posted by tehjoel at 11:03 AM on September 26, 2017
control f blaster master - 0 results - not a valid list.
there's some good, deep cuts on there, but c'mon - I ASSURE you that the hardest boss of all time is nowhere near Destiny, and I've never even played it.
posted by GreyboxHero at 11:05 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
there's some good, deep cuts on there, but c'mon - I ASSURE you that the hardest boss of all time is nowhere near Destiny, and I've never even played it.
posted by GreyboxHero at 11:05 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Thinking about drastic gameplay shifts for the final boss reminded me of one I haven't thought about in ages -- the Saturn game Magic Knight Rayearth, a top-down action-RPG a la Zelda where you fight the final boss in a vertical scrolling shooter.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:05 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:05 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, and there are a shitload of bosses harder than Wood Man in the NES Mega Man series. Some of them are almost unbeatable if you haven't first earned the weapon that they're weak against.
Regular Buster Blaster can't do shit in some cases.
posted by GreyboxHero at 11:09 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Regular Buster Blaster can't do shit in some cases.
posted by GreyboxHero at 11:09 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
> ctrl-f Matador
Matador is the finest example of the "let's see if you actually understand what game you're playing by now" I've seen so far.
Nocturne wasn't even my first megaten game and still it was immensely satisfying to be shown how little I understood the press turn system however many hours into the game in such a blunt manner. Love that guy.
posted by Bangaioh at 11:10 AM on September 26, 2017
Matador is the finest example of the "let's see if you actually understand what game you're playing by now" I've seen so far.
Nocturne wasn't even my first megaten game and still it was immensely satisfying to be shown how little I understood the press turn system however many hours into the game in such a blunt manner. Love that guy.
posted by Bangaioh at 11:10 AM on September 26, 2017
I either don't play enough games or don't play the right games, so I've only gone up against maybe ten of these bosses, and the two that I especially remember as being difficult are Shadow Link and the FTL final boss (which depending on how well prepared you are can range from "pretty easy" to "literally impossible to win").
I didn't think either the listed Doom bosses were as tough as the Icon of Sin at the end of Doom 2, which is pretty bullshit, TBH.
posted by aubilenon at 11:13 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I didn't think either the listed Doom bosses were as tough as the Icon of Sin at the end of Doom 2, which is pretty bullshit, TBH.
posted by aubilenon at 11:13 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
My first thought was Dekker from Soldier of Fortune (2000)
But then I remembered the Wizard of Yendor. Yeah.
posted by avapoet at 11:16 AM on September 26, 2017
But then I remembered the Wizard of Yendor. Yeah.
posted by avapoet at 11:16 AM on September 26, 2017
Where oh where is the Arishok from Dragon Age 2?
you have to run in a heart shape around the pillars to trigger the secret companion romance cutscene
posted by poffin boffin at 11:19 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
you have to run in a heart shape around the pillars to trigger the secret companion romance cutscene
posted by poffin boffin at 11:19 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm just here for Final Fantasy VI – Magic Master. You know, the guy at the top of the tower who, every time he's attacked, casts WallChange so then he's vulnerable to only one (random) type of spell. Then if you finally get his HP down, he casts Ultima and kills your entire party.
posted by Zephyrial at 11:25 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Zephyrial at 11:25 AM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
>Rodney is more irritating than difficult. Now let's talk Demogorgon
oh, Demogorgon is totally harder than ol' Rodney, I agree! But it can also be summoned by other demons during the course of normal gameplay so I didn't really think it's fair to call it a boss.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 11:25 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
oh, Demogorgon is totally harder than ol' Rodney, I agree! But it can also be summoned by other demons during the course of normal gameplay so I didn't really think it's fair to call it a boss.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 11:25 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not going to debate the list, I'm just going to list the ones I've defeated (and thus date myself thoroughly I'm sure):
100. Bowser froim Mario 64
92. Landing on the Aircraft Carrier from Top Gun
91. Queen Zeal from Chrono Trigger
90. Tabuu from Super Smash Bros. Brawl
75. Atheon from Destiny
72. Mothrakk from Borderlands
65. Hitler from Wolfenstein 3D
61. Lavos from Chrono Trigger
60. Darksol from Shining Force (yes, hard, agree, sheesh)
59. Darklurker from Dark Souls 2
58. Shao Kahn from Mortal Kombat 3 (and thus ended my playing of fighting games [Melee excepted] for good)
56. Rebel Flagship from FTL: Faster Than Light (best most recent hard boss, do recommend)
51. Spider Mastermind from Doom (does with cheats count? cheats spoiled that game for me so hard)
47. Giygas from Earthbound
45. Silver Knight & Laser Eye from Shining Force (another Shining Force entry? I mean... anyway, this one was hard but mostly aggravating.)
42. Wood Man from Mega Man 2
32. Culex from Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (oh yea, SCREW THIS GUY)
28. Terramorphous the Invincible from Borderlands 2
22. Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls
19. Crota from Destiny: The Dark Below
17. Goro from Mortal Kombat
1. Skolas from Destiny: House of Wolves
Ok, Ok, I swore I wouldn't critique it but damn do I agree with:
control f blaster master - 0 results - not a valid list.
I don't think I ever got past level 3 or 4 on Blaster Master... that shit was just wrong.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:29 AM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
100. Bowser froim Mario 64
92. Landing on the Aircraft Carrier from Top Gun
91. Queen Zeal from Chrono Trigger
90. Tabuu from Super Smash Bros. Brawl
75. Atheon from Destiny
72. Mothrakk from Borderlands
65. Hitler from Wolfenstein 3D
61. Lavos from Chrono Trigger
60. Darksol from Shining Force (yes, hard, agree, sheesh)
59. Darklurker from Dark Souls 2
58. Shao Kahn from Mortal Kombat 3 (and thus ended my playing of fighting games [Melee excepted] for good)
56. Rebel Flagship from FTL: Faster Than Light (best most recent hard boss, do recommend)
51. Spider Mastermind from Doom (does with cheats count? cheats spoiled that game for me so hard)
47. Giygas from Earthbound
45. Silver Knight & Laser Eye from Shining Force (another Shining Force entry? I mean... anyway, this one was hard but mostly aggravating.)
42. Wood Man from Mega Man 2
32. Culex from Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (oh yea, SCREW THIS GUY)
28. Terramorphous the Invincible from Borderlands 2
22. Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls
19. Crota from Destiny: The Dark Below
17. Goro from Mortal Kombat
1. Skolas from Destiny: House of Wolves
Ok, Ok, I swore I wouldn't critique it but damn do I agree with:
control f blaster master - 0 results - not a valid list.
I don't think I ever got past level 3 or 4 on Blaster Master... that shit was just wrong.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:29 AM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Kai Leng is a pushover.
Yeah, agreed. He achieved memetic status mainly due to his fucking annoying plot armour, not how hard he is to actually beat during gameplay.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:30 AM on September 26, 2017
Yeah, agreed. He achieved memetic status mainly due to his fucking annoying plot armour, not how hard he is to actually beat during gameplay.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:30 AM on September 26, 2017
A song and an aircraft carrier? What now?
Also, if those are valid, then so is the last stage of the original Tetris, where shit goes invisible. Now THAT's hard, you whippersnappers. I'm not dating myself here am I? (ctrl-F Pong... nothing)
Also:
ctrl-F Prince of Persia
ctrl-F Wing Commander 2 - Secret Ops
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 11:38 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, if those are valid, then so is the last stage of the original Tetris, where shit goes invisible. Now THAT's hard, you whippersnappers. I'm not dating myself here am I? (ctrl-F Pong... nothing)
Also:
ctrl-F Prince of Persia
ctrl-F Wing Commander 2 - Secret Ops
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 11:38 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
*looks at article"
"Yeah, I doubt I've even played many of these, let alone beat them..."
Kai Leng
"Oh, fuck that guy."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:39 AM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Yeah, I doubt I've even played many of these, let alone beat them..."
Kai Leng
"Oh, fuck that guy."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:39 AM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I experienced the rare literal LOL at 92. Landing on the aircraft carrier Top Gun (1987, Nintendo Entertainment System).
That shit was maddening and ridiculous, and I never really thought of it as an enemy boss, but it was. It was.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:41 AM on September 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
That shit was maddening and ridiculous, and I never really thought of it as an enemy boss, but it was. It was.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:41 AM on September 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Nthing the ridiculosity of putting Kai Leng on the list. He's a tool that's mostly just kind of tedious to beat once he doesn't have a vehicle to back him up or escape to. ME isn't really about the boss fights, TBH. The toughest one in the game is probably the Shepard clone, because they've got your powers, minions, and Brooks running around with some plot armor of her own.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:45 AM on September 26, 2017
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:45 AM on September 26, 2017
Wow, Hitler is only #65?
Tough ranking.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:46 AM on September 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Tough ranking.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:46 AM on September 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Just finished the Titanfall 2 campaign this past weekend and can confirm that Viper is a dick.
posted by Iridic at 11:48 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Iridic at 11:48 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
You hear that ringing in your ears, son?
posted by tobascodagama at 11:51 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tobascodagama at 11:51 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wood Man is a really weird choice here. Like, he's harder than Flash Man and Bubble Man, I guess, but Heat, Crash, and lord knows Quick were all the kind of fights you dreaded. Quick was hard even with the flash stopper to take half his life away. Wood Man? Come on.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:51 AM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 11:51 AM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also, I'd swap out Duriel for Baal as a tough-ass boss, in no small part because you're in a very tight space with no cover and he can move fast. For that matter, the Diablo III version of Diablo was pretty tough before he was nerfed.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:53 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:53 AM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Most people never make it to Level 4 (or is it 5) in Blaster Master because, with no prompting or explanation anywhere, you have to:
- Obtain the Hover ability by finishing level 3
- Return on the open world map ALL the way to the literal very beginning of the game, a good 10 minute trek in real-time
- Time your hovering, perfectly, and fly up 3 or 4 layers of platforms in the top left corner of the big open area
- Reach a platform in the sky, and casually go left
The best analogy I can think of would be if, in Metroid (the original for NES), after finishing off some of the business down in the Lava area (or the green area), you return to where you first start off and float upward about 5 screens.
Blaster Master, IMHO, is impossible without using the "pause" cheat on bosses.
posted by GreyboxHero at 12:02 PM on September 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
- Obtain the Hover ability by finishing level 3
- Return on the open world map ALL the way to the literal very beginning of the game, a good 10 minute trek in real-time
- Time your hovering, perfectly, and fly up 3 or 4 layers of platforms in the top left corner of the big open area
- Reach a platform in the sky, and casually go left
The best analogy I can think of would be if, in Metroid (the original for NES), after finishing off some of the business down in the Lava area (or the green area), you return to where you first start off and float upward about 5 screens.
Blaster Master, IMHO, is impossible without using the "pause" cheat on bosses.
posted by GreyboxHero at 12:02 PM on September 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Most people never make it to Level 4 (or is it 5) in Blaster Master because, with no prompting or explanation anywhere, you have to:
- Obtain the Hover ability by finishing level 3
- Return on the open world map ALL the way to the literal very beginning of the game, a good 10 minute trek in real-time
- Time your hovering, perfectly, and fly up 3 or 4 layers of platforms in the top left corner of the big open area
- Reach a platform in the sky, and casually go left
WHAT
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:11 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
- Obtain the Hover ability by finishing level 3
- Return on the open world map ALL the way to the literal very beginning of the game, a good 10 minute trek in real-time
- Time your hovering, perfectly, and fly up 3 or 4 layers of platforms in the top left corner of the big open area
- Reach a platform in the sky, and casually go left
WHAT
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:11 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I never did finish the Bioshock Infinite zeppelin battle. I ended up giving up and then found the ending cutscenes on youtube to sate my curiosity.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:15 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by rmd1023 at 12:15 PM on September 26, 2017
Rodney is more irritating than difficult. Now let's talk Demogorgon.
And let's not forget Master Kaen before 3.6.0. And also that (almost) all deaths are final in NetHack. No mulligans. One mistake and days or weeks of work disappears in poof...
posted by jim in austin at 12:17 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
And let's not forget Master Kaen before 3.6.0. And also that (almost) all deaths are final in NetHack. No mulligans. One mistake and days or weeks of work disappears in poof...
posted by jim in austin at 12:17 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
RolandOfEld - not sure if you're serious or not, but:
https://youtu.be/6GBqoL-J24A?t=944
I have literally zero idea how I figured this out at age 5 or 6, but I did.
posted by GreyboxHero at 12:20 PM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
https://youtu.be/6GBqoL-J24A?t=944
I have literally zero idea how I figured this out at age 5 or 6, but I did.
posted by GreyboxHero at 12:20 PM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not a hardcore gamer, but some of the ones I actually DID encounter I didn't find especially difficult -- and I count the zeppelin battle in that set.
I'm only now wading into Borderlands, but so far my impression is that the only tool the devs were willing to use to increase difficulty was to give the boss a huge amount of health. All the boss battles take way longer than is actually fun, at least so far. It's jarring because, most of the time in games like that, I end up over-levelled for most in-world enemies, so you go from one- or two-shotting mobs to a 20-minute fight.
posted by uberchet at 12:21 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm only now wading into Borderlands, but so far my impression is that the only tool the devs were willing to use to increase difficulty was to give the boss a huge amount of health. All the boss battles take way longer than is actually fun, at least so far. It's jarring because, most of the time in games like that, I end up over-levelled for most in-world enemies, so you go from one- or two-shotting mobs to a 20-minute fight.
posted by uberchet at 12:21 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm serious. And pissed.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:22 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:22 PM on September 26, 2017
Ugh. This is giving me flashbacks to the final level of Divinity II. Like some of the bosses people have already mentioned, this level was completely different from everything else in the game with no introduction, preparation, or opportunity to learn and practice the completely different gameplay. I really enjoyed the game but quit in frustration and disgust after inexplicably dying on that level a few times.
posted by ElKevbo at 12:30 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by ElKevbo at 12:30 PM on September 26, 2017
GreyboxHero: wasn't that blurbed in a Nintendo Power before / shortly after Blaster Master came out? I don't recall if my friends and I beat that; but looking at the bosses, I know we definitely faced the level 6 and 8 bosses (7 is too similar in appearance to 4 for me to feel "sure" in my memory that I at least faced that boss). What I'm trying to get at is I'm not sure if we (myself and one other friend were relatively obsessive about finding ways to make progress) progessed the hard way by rechecking everything once we had hover, or if we just grabbed the secret easily from nintendo power.
posted by nobeagle at 12:31 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by nobeagle at 12:31 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Drakengard 3 deserves a nod for the audacious fuck-you-ery of its rhythm boss.
posted by fleacircus at 12:32 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fleacircus at 12:32 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, now you know. It's just a stupidly hard game, but the linkup of level 3 to 4 is so bizarre that it really isn't fair.
From 4 onward it's pretty easy to locate the next level. Don't feel bad, any sane person who didn't obsess over NES in their youth would never find it.
Having read this 100 boss list twice now, I'm really bummed that it's effectively a paid advertisement for Destiny with 50 legitimately hard bosses, rather than a true 100 boss list.
posted by GreyboxHero at 12:32 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
From 4 onward it's pretty easy to locate the next level. Don't feel bad, any sane person who didn't obsess over NES in their youth would never find it.
Having read this 100 boss list twice now, I'm really bummed that it's effectively a paid advertisement for Destiny with 50 legitimately hard bosses, rather than a true 100 boss list.
posted by GreyboxHero at 12:32 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll throw in a vote for the boss fight at the end of Beyond Good and Evil, with its arbitrary inverting and un-inverting of the controller. SO FRUSTRATING.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:38 PM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:38 PM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
"So, thou thought thou couldst elude me, fool."
The Wizard of Yendor hits! The Wizard of Yendor hits! You die.
posted by praemunire at 12:49 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Wizard of Yendor hits! The Wizard of Yendor hits! You die.
posted by praemunire at 12:49 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ok, I'm going to be that person, because I'm a stats wonk and I hate arbitrary ranking systems. What the hell is the methodology used to "rank" these bosses? Because the fact that Wood Man from Megaman II is higher on the list than Vortex Queen from Ecco the Dolphin is just completely incorrect. The fact that Wood Man is on here at all is...what?
There is also this weird skill bias that is not being explored that can slant what boss is or is not "difficult." Spider Mastermind should be way higher on the list, assuming the player is completely new to Doom and it's techniques. She is only NOT IMPOSSIBLE if you've developed some technique along the way or played the game several times. Regardless you will die over and over until you learn to stock up on weapons and to utilize the level. And yet the ONLY WAY I can see someone finding Wood Man difficult as a boss is if they are completely new to the game to the point where you don't know how to jump and fire and even then that's debatable.
So...this should be more "Here are some difficult bosses, unranked."
posted by Young Kullervo at 1:06 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is also this weird skill bias that is not being explored that can slant what boss is or is not "difficult." Spider Mastermind should be way higher on the list, assuming the player is completely new to Doom and it's techniques. She is only NOT IMPOSSIBLE if you've developed some technique along the way or played the game several times. Regardless you will die over and over until you learn to stock up on weapons and to utilize the level. And yet the ONLY WAY I can see someone finding Wood Man difficult as a boss is if they are completely new to the game to the point where you don't know how to jump and fire and even then that's debatable.
So...this should be more "Here are some difficult bosses, unranked."
posted by Young Kullervo at 1:06 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think it would be cool to limit this to 5 to 10 entries, and do a really deep exploration of what makes each boss encounter work (or not work, in some cases). The huge ranked list format is an old standby, and obvious from a business perspective driving clicks through argument, but not doing the subject matter justice, IMO.
posted by codacorolla at 1:12 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 1:12 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I deffo would put Meta Ridley from Metroid Prime on the list, quite possibly instead of the Spider Guardian in Prime II, I say as someone who spent months on both. Fuck that guy.
posted by Itaxpica at 1:16 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Itaxpica at 1:16 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
In addition to the Mega Man examples already mentioned, special attention for two end bosses is merited: the Wily Capsule in Mega Man 7, which even the devs admitted they needed an e-tank to beat; and Sigma's final form in Mega Man X3, with it's pinprick-sized hitbox.
And I'd put Viy from the remake version of La-Mulana up there with anything listed here. or, for that matter, the final boss of the original version.
I'd like to discuss this further, but I can't entirely get past the phrase "Runaway sleeper hits."
posted by kewb at 1:17 PM on September 26, 2017
And I'd put Viy from the remake version of La-Mulana up there with anything listed here. or, for that matter, the final boss of the original version.
I'd like to discuss this further, but I can't entirely get past the phrase "Runaway sleeper hits."
posted by kewb at 1:17 PM on September 26, 2017
Ctrl-F "I am the milk man. My milk is delicious."
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 1:19 PM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 1:19 PM on September 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Pshaw, Mothrakk isn't hard, he's just tedious. Much like the Destroyer after the initial "whoah" moment.
Moe and Marley are more difficult (at the level you face them) than Mothrakk. Mad Mel is good for one almost guaranteed death before the tedium, unless you get lucky with escaping the ring.
posted by Foosnark at 1:22 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Moe and Marley are more difficult (at the level you face them) than Mothrakk. Mad Mel is good for one almost guaranteed death before the tedium, unless you get lucky with escaping the ring.
posted by Foosnark at 1:22 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ridiculous. The cruelest boss in video games is the Cowbear.
posted by darksasami at 1:34 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by darksasami at 1:34 PM on September 26, 2017
I'm only now wading into Borderlands, but so far my impression is that the only tool the devs were willing to use to increase difficulty was to give the boss a huge amount of health. All the boss battles take way longer than is actually fun, at least so far. It's jarring because, most of the time in games like that, I end up over-levelled for most in-world enemies, so you go from one- or two-shotting mobs to a 20-minute fight.
One thing I've found with Borderlands is that it depends a lot on lucking out with finding a loot that suits the gameplay style.
For instance, on the first I played most of the game with just three or four primary guns - scoped pounders with elemental damage. Carried one over 10 levels because it had an absurdly high elemental damage and critical chance, and often only needed to shoot, hide, shoot, hide, and after a few seconds, even enemies a couple levels higher dropped dead. Got a replacement when I was levelling up for the The Destroyer, and while it was a boring fight, it finished relatively quickly.
Finished 2 a few weeks ago, and lucked out Mal dropped a Fibber that was like a fast-firing, long-range shotgun, which carried me through the end boss going head-first with Zer0 . On a second run with Maya, I didn't have much luck with that drop, but found other weapons that required just some adjustment to tactics.
In general, Borderlands can be a miserable experience without the right gear, but with the right stuff is glorious.
posted by lmfsilva at 1:42 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
One thing I've found with Borderlands is that it depends a lot on lucking out with finding a loot that suits the gameplay style.
For instance, on the first I played most of the game with just three or four primary guns - scoped pounders with elemental damage. Carried one over 10 levels because it had an absurdly high elemental damage and critical chance, and often only needed to shoot, hide, shoot, hide, and after a few seconds, even enemies a couple levels higher dropped dead. Got a replacement when I was levelling up for the The Destroyer, and while it was a boring fight, it finished relatively quickly.
Finished 2 a few weeks ago, and lucked out Mal dropped a Fibber that was like a fast-firing, long-range shotgun, which carried me through the end boss going head-first with Zer0 . On a second run with Maya, I didn't have much luck with that drop, but found other weapons that required just some adjustment to tactics.
In general, Borderlands can be a miserable experience without the right gear, but with the right stuff is glorious.
posted by lmfsilva at 1:42 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Have we talked about Who Framed Roger Rabbit's Judge Doom?
We should talk about Judge Doom.
posted by greenland at 1:48 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
We should talk about Judge Doom.
posted by greenland at 1:48 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or Joker from NES Batman
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:04 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:04 PM on September 26, 2017
I've only played 16 of these games. (Please note that I did not beat 16 of these bosses. I am legendarily bad at console games but did manage to get very, very good at Quake 3 Arena.)
posted by infinitewindow at 2:09 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by infinitewindow at 2:09 PM on September 26, 2017
All the boss battles take way longer than is actually fun, at least so far. It's jarring because, most of the time in games like that, I end up over-levelled for most in-world enemies, so you go from one- or two-shotting mobs to a 20-minute fight.
Ah, that reminds me of Diablo in Diablo II, which was frustrating as hell for a Martial Arts Assassin; I didn't want to melee him, which left me with an underdeveloped mind power, Psychic Hammer or Mind Blast, can't remember which. Plinking away at this dude from a distance for seemingly forever for teensy little slivers of damage. Then I realized that I really wanted Traps, which had the advantage of fire-and-forget; Traps would continue to fire even after your character is dead. Set some traps near Big D and then go to the other side of that big empty space where Diablo spawned and play itsy-bitsy-spider while the traps did all the work. Good times.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:09 PM on September 26, 2017
Ah, that reminds me of Diablo in Diablo II, which was frustrating as hell for a Martial Arts Assassin; I didn't want to melee him, which left me with an underdeveloped mind power, Psychic Hammer or Mind Blast, can't remember which. Plinking away at this dude from a distance for seemingly forever for teensy little slivers of damage. Then I realized that I really wanted Traps, which had the advantage of fire-and-forget; Traps would continue to fire even after your character is dead. Set some traps near Big D and then go to the other side of that big empty space where Diablo spawned and play itsy-bitsy-spider while the traps did all the work. Good times.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:09 PM on September 26, 2017
Can we take just a moment to appreciate the fact that this was presented as a list on a single webpage and not 20 pages of 5 games apiece?
posted by craven_morhead at 2:11 PM on September 26, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by craven_morhead at 2:11 PM on September 26, 2017 [39 favorites]
Yeah, well Balloon Fight goes on forever. The end boss in Balloon Fight is your own mortality
posted by oulipian at 2:12 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 2:12 PM on September 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Changeling, from Wizards & Warriors
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:15 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:15 PM on September 26, 2017
45. Silver Knight & Laser Eye
This boss, this guy, right here. Bane of my life when I was 8.
posted by Braeburn at 2:27 PM on September 26, 2017
This boss, this guy, right here. Bane of my life when I was 8.
posted by Braeburn at 2:27 PM on September 26, 2017
Taking the time to read through it a bit more, this doesn't even mention the most devious part of Chrono Trigger's battle with Lavos -- a true Lovecraftian horror of an RPG villain if ever there was one.
First you fight through its monstrous outer shell and walk inside.
Then you face a humanoid construct that's just labeled "Lavos," but has hands that act independently of it; you can kill them separately or just focus on the body -- destroying the body destroys the whole thing.
Then you come face-to-face with the Lavos Core, which takes the form of a smaller humanoid being with two "Lavos Bits" flanking it. It hits hard, and often. You pour all of your power into killing the creature, and when it finally dies, you expect the battle to end, just like it did against the big monster from phase 2, but it doesn't; the fight keeps going. Because the thing in the middle isn't the core -- it's just the "Center Bit." The core is the little polyp on the right. And it can revive the other two and make you deal with them all over again now that you know which one you actually have to kill.
Now that's game design.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:39 PM on September 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
First you fight through its monstrous outer shell and walk inside.
Then you face a humanoid construct that's just labeled "Lavos," but has hands that act independently of it; you can kill them separately or just focus on the body -- destroying the body destroys the whole thing.
Then you come face-to-face with the Lavos Core, which takes the form of a smaller humanoid being with two "Lavos Bits" flanking it. It hits hard, and often. You pour all of your power into killing the creature, and when it finally dies, you expect the battle to end, just like it did against the big monster from phase 2, but it doesn't; the fight keeps going. Because the thing in the middle isn't the core -- it's just the "Center Bit." The core is the little polyp on the right. And it can revive the other two and make you deal with them all over again now that you know which one you actually have to kill.
Now that's game design.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:39 PM on September 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
I recognize this is a new game and not many people have played it, but Hollow Knight (a Metroidvania type game similar to Castlevania: SOTN) already has had 2 or 3 bosses that are much, much harder (Nintendo Hard) than the first 50.
I'm only 1/3rd of the way through as well.
posted by GreyboxHero at 2:44 PM on September 26, 2017
I'm only 1/3rd of the way through as well.
posted by GreyboxHero at 2:44 PM on September 26, 2017
uuggghh fuuuuuuck Guildenstern, the first time anyway. Took me forever to learn the timing to reduce the damage just in the first part of that fight. And then I still went back and grinded like crazy and did all kinds of crafting for a really good 1-handed sword, because they were the easiest to chain with for me (aaaaaand then you find out later the ultimate weapon is a 2-handed sword and I had to repractice chaining for that), and finally beat the game the first time.
New Game Plus was super easy though because once you can do like 100+ chains everything dies in your path.
posted by numaner at 2:48 PM on September 26, 2017
New Game Plus was super easy though because once you can do like 100+ chains everything dies in your path.
posted by numaner at 2:48 PM on September 26, 2017
The single hardest time I have ever had in a modern videogame was getting on an elevator thingy in Dante's Inferno.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:06 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:06 PM on September 26, 2017
!mfsilva, you're not wrong about gear in Borderlands. I -- playing as Mordecai, and at the time mostly a sniper -- nearly quit very early on in my 2nd playthru, but opted to go do Zombie Island on Playthru 1 before calling it a day, and in so doing picked up some hot-shit elemental stuff that made progression in PL2 possible again.
In Pl1, I could really just kinda ignore the elemental part of things, but that stops being viable REALLY FAST when the mobs get harder. I still packrat, but now, deep into General Knoxx, I'm carrying a freakin' repeater that just DESTROYS anything in armor, and I've had it forever. Same with a fire-element submachine gun and a couple of revolvers (about which DAMN).
Borderlands 1 and its DLC are like a stupider but almost as wonderful Fallout; there's only nominal story, but the characters are hilarious. It's an open-world RPG shooter, but with none of the boring stuff Bethesda has stuffed into Fallout for "depth" or whatever. I'm really enjoying the world, still, and figure I'll eventually consume BL2 and its DLC, too.
Anyway, I realize upon review that I've actually only fought 5 of the bosses on the list:
posted by uberchet at 3:10 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
In Pl1, I could really just kinda ignore the elemental part of things, but that stops being viable REALLY FAST when the mobs get harder. I still packrat, but now, deep into General Knoxx, I'm carrying a freakin' repeater that just DESTROYS anything in armor, and I've had it forever. Same with a fire-element submachine gun and a couple of revolvers (about which DAMN).
Borderlands 1 and its DLC are like a stupider but almost as wonderful Fallout; there's only nominal story, but the characters are hilarious. It's an open-world RPG shooter, but with none of the boring stuff Bethesda has stuffed into Fallout for "depth" or whatever. I'm really enjoying the world, still, and figure I'll eventually consume BL2 and its DLC, too.
Anyway, I realize upon review that I've actually only fought 5 of the bosses on the list:
- 97. Bioshock Infinite: Lady Comstock. Mildly frustrating, but not CRAZY hard.
- 88. Bioshock Infinite: The Airship. I actually thought this was a HOOT. Certainly not very difficult for me.
- 81. Dishonored: Daud. He's a badass, but the encounter is manageable if you're not dumb.
- 72. Borderlands: Mothrakk. Even overleveled, this SUCKED. And as I said, there's nothing creative here; it's just "flying baddie with tons of hit points."
- 10. Punch Out!!: Mike Tyson. I, too, had a Nintendo.
posted by uberchet at 3:10 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Interesting to see, once again, that “I am a floating gun that shoots people” is considered a genre everyone is expected to be familiar with no matter how hardcore it gets, while every other genre is limited to famous mainstream stuff. It’s a very “big cardboard cutouts at GameStop” list overall.
Like... M. Bison from SF2 isn’t even the worst version of that character (SFA3). And yeah, no mention of the existence of SNK at all, whose boss characters are an entirely different realm of insanely difficult (things like not even having crouching stances, so they just block high or low attacks automatically no matter what).
TTF&F on Guitar Hero is pretty hard, but on the other hand, if you want to talk about The Hardest Thing in Music Games, once again you’re talking about something that would be considered “reasonably challenging” to a Beatmania IIDX player.
And not a single shoot-em-up anywhere to be seen! Not a single mention of either incarnation of The Stone-Like. Or, while we’re talking about dodging stuff without being allowed to get hit, no mention of Sans.
Does the entire Hell run of Cave Story count as a boss? If TTF&F does then there’s at least a case to be made. Either way, the boss fight there was pretty hard too.
On the other hand... maybe “not arguing pointlessly about the list of hard boss fights” is the hardest boss fight of them all.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:31 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Like... M. Bison from SF2 isn’t even the worst version of that character (SFA3). And yeah, no mention of the existence of SNK at all, whose boss characters are an entirely different realm of insanely difficult (things like not even having crouching stances, so they just block high or low attacks automatically no matter what).
TTF&F on Guitar Hero is pretty hard, but on the other hand, if you want to talk about The Hardest Thing in Music Games, once again you’re talking about something that would be considered “reasonably challenging” to a Beatmania IIDX player.
And not a single shoot-em-up anywhere to be seen! Not a single mention of either incarnation of The Stone-Like. Or, while we’re talking about dodging stuff without being allowed to get hit, no mention of Sans.
Does the entire Hell run of Cave Story count as a boss? If TTF&F does then there’s at least a case to be made. Either way, the boss fight there was pretty hard too.
On the other hand... maybe “not arguing pointlessly about the list of hard boss fights” is the hardest boss fight of them all.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:31 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Artorias is way easier than Manus, c'mon.
Gotta agree with you there. I found Manus the hardest boss in all of ds1 and 2. I only beat him that particular time because he didn't use his magic much. Even with Sif summoned, he took me to the cleaners repeatedly. He can eat a bucket of roosters in my humble opinion.
posted by Sparx at 3:34 PM on September 26, 2017
Gotta agree with you there. I found Manus the hardest boss in all of ds1 and 2. I only beat him that particular time because he didn't use his magic much. Even with Sif summoned, he took me to the cleaners repeatedly. He can eat a bucket of roosters in my humble opinion.
posted by Sparx at 3:34 PM on September 26, 2017
I've still never actually beaten Mega Man all the way through because I can't beat the stupid clay golem thing.
posted by Scattercat at 3:59 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Scattercat at 3:59 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
DoctorFedora - I agree and am hugely suspicious of the "financial neutrality" of this list. There are way too many bosses from current FPS games, and the way those listings are written just screams "Influencer Marketing."
Now I've largley stopped playing videogames post PS1 era (a few, here and there), but if I was to make a top 25 list there are maybe 15 that aren't even listed in the whole list.
But hey, on the flip side it'd be impossible to make a list like this without tons of people disagreeing and claiming that this or that is missing.
posted by GreyboxHero at 4:02 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now I've largley stopped playing videogames post PS1 era (a few, here and there), but if I was to make a top 25 list there are maybe 15 that aren't even listed in the whole list.
But hey, on the flip side it'd be impossible to make a list like this without tons of people disagreeing and claiming that this or that is missing.
posted by GreyboxHero at 4:02 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Yellow Devil is a legitimately good choice for that list.
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:02 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:02 PM on September 26, 2017
This list is automatically suspect because the ender dragon appears on it. The fight is easy, it just takes forever.
posted by xyzzy at 4:03 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by xyzzy at 4:03 PM on September 26, 2017
GreyboxHero, I dunno if I’d consider it “influencer marketing” so much as just... that’s the stuff considered “mainstream,” so it’s just normal effective marketing that made its way through to the writer. I’m not too concerned about the Ethics in Games Journalism of this list, so much as just commenting on what is genuinely regarded by most as “normal” video games.
Nothing on the list would be considered “obscure” by self-described capital-G Gamers, is the main thing.
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:04 PM on September 26, 2017
Nothing on the list would be considered “obscure” by self-described capital-G Gamers, is the main thing.
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:04 PM on September 26, 2017
I deffo would put Meta Ridley from Metroid Prime on the list
Metroid Prime(s) bosses should be, like, half this list.
re: Chrono Trigger: I love Chrono Trigger (see: username). It is one of my comfort-games that I come back to in times of trouble and just sink into. I'm not sure any of them should be on this list. Mayyybe the Zeal fight(s), because of Hallation, but I swear I have more problems with the secret Nu fight than anything else, and that's not even a boss battle. And all of CT's battles can be out-leveled if you're really having a problem. No skill needed, no upper cap on your abilities.
Chrono Trigger boss design, however, as Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish mentions, needs its own treatise.
Because the thing with Lavos isn't just that it fakes you out, it's that it fakes you out after an entire game of training you with three-part boss fights. Dragon Tank, Guardian, Mud Imp, Giga Gaia, Zeal (transformed -- this one's on the list) -- every one of these, you have two side-supports and then the central core. There are different expressions of how the sides do their support, whether it's assault, defense, healing, counterattacks or not, but every one is like this. The Dragon Tank is the second boss you fight within a few hours of the game and it's already teaching you how this is supposed to go.
Then you manage to get to the Lavos Core and it throws you. I can, right now, remember being a tween and managing to take down the central part, deciding to ignore the right side that just wouldn't die.. and.. the battle wasn't over?! Wait, the other two are back?! Heart-racing.
And this doesn't even get into the permutations in the 1- and 2-boss fights, which are also consistent across the entire game (counterattacks, magic or physical defenses, combination attacks), and also riff on and support the 3-boss fights. There is so much to unpack in CT enemy encounter design. It's a beautiful thing.
posted by curious nu at 4:05 PM on September 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Metroid Prime(s) bosses should be, like, half this list.
re: Chrono Trigger: I love Chrono Trigger (see: username). It is one of my comfort-games that I come back to in times of trouble and just sink into. I'm not sure any of them should be on this list. Mayyybe the Zeal fight(s), because of Hallation, but I swear I have more problems with the secret Nu fight than anything else, and that's not even a boss battle. And all of CT's battles can be out-leveled if you're really having a problem. No skill needed, no upper cap on your abilities.
Chrono Trigger boss design, however, as Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish mentions, needs its own treatise.
Because the thing with Lavos isn't just that it fakes you out, it's that it fakes you out after an entire game of training you with three-part boss fights. Dragon Tank, Guardian, Mud Imp, Giga Gaia, Zeal (transformed -- this one's on the list) -- every one of these, you have two side-supports and then the central core. There are different expressions of how the sides do their support, whether it's assault, defense, healing, counterattacks or not, but every one is like this. The Dragon Tank is the second boss you fight within a few hours of the game and it's already teaching you how this is supposed to go.
Then you manage to get to the Lavos Core and it throws you. I can, right now, remember being a tween and managing to take down the central part, deciding to ignore the right side that just wouldn't die.. and.. the battle wasn't over?! Wait, the other two are back?! Heart-racing.
And this doesn't even get into the permutations in the 1- and 2-boss fights, which are also consistent across the entire game (counterattacks, magic or physical defenses, combination attacks), and also riff on and support the 3-boss fights. There is so much to unpack in CT enemy encounter design. It's a beautiful thing.
posted by curious nu at 4:05 PM on September 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also re: Mega Man bosses: Mega Man 2, Wily Fortress 4. How the hell is this even a question? Only one weapon works, there are no energy refills, try again and again until you figure out the puzzle and execute it perfectly.
Also also re: bosses: my biggest issue with boss fights in most games is that "difficult" = "more hitpoints". Sometimes they hit harder, but there're usually ways around that. It just becomes a damn slog.
posted by curious nu at 4:08 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also also re: bosses: my biggest issue with boss fights in most games is that "difficult" = "more hitpoints". Sometimes they hit harder, but there're usually ways around that. It just becomes a damn slog.
posted by curious nu at 4:08 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Does the entire Hell run of Cave Story count as a boss? If TTF&F does then there’s at least a case to be made. Either way, the boss fight there was pretty hard too.
I was thinking of F-Zero GX Story Mode re: stupid bullshit levels as bosses.
posted by curious nu at 4:10 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was thinking of F-Zero GX Story Mode re: stupid bullshit levels as bosses.
posted by curious nu at 4:10 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
UGH F-ZERO GX GAWD
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:12 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:12 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Clearly Brickster is 93 and not 96, list is utter trash
posted by Copronymus at 4:20 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Copronymus at 4:20 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have no memory of playing and beating KH2, but I know I did. I should replay the recently released 2.5 with the international stuff and make my fingers bleed.
posted by numaner at 4:26 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by numaner at 4:26 PM on September 26, 2017
Also the Rebel Flagship was a very good choice for this list. It has a few really good non-obvious selections, overall bro-ness aside
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:28 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:28 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
also I'm surprised to see Guildenstern on this list. Vagrant Story is my other favorite comfort-game, and its bosses all come down to either a) ridiculous prep or b) foreknowledge so you just have regular prep. Chain timing helps, but you can get by without it. If you're really having difficulty with that fight, you unlock the Phantom Pain chain attack, get some high phantom point weapons, and then just do unblockable damage by exhausting the weapons with Phantom Pain. Crossbows work best, but are rare to find in the game so anything with reach works just fine. Most annoying thing is the way he strafes you; +Movement helps there, too.
Okay I've made four comments I need to cool it down it turns out I have feelings about boss fights. And 100x feelings about Chrono Trigger and Vagrant Story.
posted by curious nu at 4:29 PM on September 26, 2017
Okay I've made four comments I need to cool it down it turns out I have feelings about boss fights. And 100x feelings about Chrono Trigger and Vagrant Story.
posted by curious nu at 4:29 PM on September 26, 2017
Have we talked about Who Framed Roger Rabbit's Judge Doom?
We should talk about Judge Doom.
posted by greenland at 1:48 PM on September 26
Oh god, that fucking game.
posted by davros42 at 4:52 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
We should talk about Judge Doom.
posted by greenland at 1:48 PM on September 26
Oh god, that fucking game.
posted by davros42 at 4:52 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was glad to see one of the incarnations of Vergil on this list. Holy mother of Dao, that dude is a bag of awful tricks, +2. The one in three is not as hard as the Vergil in the reboot though - Ninja studios did a great job at making him a nigh unbeatable boss.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 5:19 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 5:19 PM on September 26, 2017
One of many things in that game that was far better than it had a right to be.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:22 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:22 PM on September 26, 2017
They definitely return to the same few titles too much, though. I understand that the Souls franchise has opened a new era of boss difficulty, but even among the genres adjacent to third-person action beat-em-ups, there were some startling omissions. No Godhand bosses? Where was No More Heroes? Did I miss the token inclusion of a Platinum Games title?
posted by jsnlxndrlv at 5:34 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jsnlxndrlv at 5:34 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Raiden May Cry shows up at No. 99 as the token Platinum inclusion, if you can count that.
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:37 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:37 PM on September 26, 2017
So happy to see Alma called out on this list. Ninja Gaiden was tricky as a whole, but that fight was devastating. Although they used the pic from her second (and easier) fight; tsk, tsk
posted by Expecto Cilantro at 5:43 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by Expecto Cilantro at 5:43 PM on September 26, 2017
Landing on the aircraft carrier in NES Top Gun was stupid hard. Out of all the time my friends and I put into that game I think we succeeding in landing getting to the third level/mission once or twice.
posted by mmascolino at 6:10 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by mmascolino at 6:10 PM on September 26, 2017
I third Lavos' good design, and folks who played Chrono Trigger should check out this previous FPP that linked Reversing the Design: The Two Games of Chrono Trigger.
(Also, high level Chrono can solo Lavos no problem.)
posted by postcommunism at 6:41 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Also, high level Chrono can solo Lavos no problem.)
posted by postcommunism at 6:41 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait wait wait, where is the elevator on level 29 of Jumpman?
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:32 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:32 PM on September 26, 2017
Not even a single boss from Dead Rising is pretty suspicious but on the whole I guess this list is fine? I don't recall having any significant difficulty with any of the baddies from any of the Borderlandses and wouldn't touch any of the Soulsbloods games with somebody else's controller.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:09 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:09 PM on September 26, 2017
The Guy from I Wanna Be the Guy. I'm curious just how many people in the world have beaten him.
posted by painquale at 8:43 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by painquale at 8:43 PM on September 26, 2017
And 100x feelings about Chrono Trigger and Vagrant Story.
Never played Chrono Trigger but Vagrant Story was masterful. The characters, the systems, the maps....everything.
Dark Souls always felt like it had a lot of Vagrant Story in it to me.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:58 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Never played Chrono Trigger but Vagrant Story was masterful. The characters, the systems, the maps....everything.
Dark Souls always felt like it had a lot of Vagrant Story in it to me.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:58 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
And, really, the emblematic WoW boss fight was either UBRS, Rags or Ony. Not that many people ran AQ by comparison. (Or Nax.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:00 PM on September 26, 2017
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:00 PM on September 26, 2017
How about the Dragon at the end of Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning?
The gimmick of the game is, because of how you die...erm...were murdered, you are unstuck from the tapestry of fate, and, by murdering enough enemies of all sorts, you charge Reckoning mode, where, for a short while, everything slows down, you do a fair bit more damage, and if you attack one or more opponents and take them down in time, you can fateshift them and have them all disintegrate (with an optional QTE for bonus XP). Now, this dragon (for reasons), has the ability to rip the threads from you, and use them to make almost outlines that fight you based on attacks of one of the classes or the plethora of combinations of the classes. So, not only are THEY attacking you, but IT is attacking you, injuring you, and draining your way to hit the enemies the hardest all at once, never forgetting to remind you of the uselessness of your continued resistance and the inevitability of your failure.
(It needs a mod to put Curt Schilling's loathesome face on the dragon if they want me to continue beating it...)
posted by Samizdata at 9:03 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
The gimmick of the game is, because of how you die...erm...were murdered, you are unstuck from the tapestry of fate, and, by murdering enough enemies of all sorts, you charge Reckoning mode, where, for a short while, everything slows down, you do a fair bit more damage, and if you attack one or more opponents and take them down in time, you can fateshift them and have them all disintegrate (with an optional QTE for bonus XP). Now, this dragon (for reasons), has the ability to rip the threads from you, and use them to make almost outlines that fight you based on attacks of one of the classes or the plethora of combinations of the classes. So, not only are THEY attacking you, but IT is attacking you, injuring you, and draining your way to hit the enemies the hardest all at once, never forgetting to remind you of the uselessness of your continued resistance and the inevitability of your failure.
(It needs a mod to put Curt Schilling's loathesome face on the dragon if they want me to continue beating it...)
posted by Samizdata at 9:03 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
You actually played Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning to the end? Ohhh, you're the guy.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:21 PM on September 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:21 PM on September 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, Amalur. A lighthearted romp through 30 hours R.A. Salvatore's shower thoughts.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:21 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:21 PM on September 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
WHERE IS EVERY SINGLE BOSS IN CONTRA SANS THE KONAMI CODE
posted by aspersioncast at 9:59 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 9:59 PM on September 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have one big complaint about this list, and that is the fact that Kerafyrm the Sleeper is at #64.
The Sleeper is, as they say, a boss that was never intended to be killed. It was an Everquest boss that spawned in a special zone called the Sleeper's Tomb, after you killed six other superboss dragons that spawned one after the other in there, whereupon it would instantly kill everybody, fly out, change a bunch of stuff in the world permanently, and disappear. And that was it. No more Sleeper, ever. The Sleeper could only be spawned once per server. It had health only because entities in the game had to have health, and was hurtable only because things in the game had to be hurtable.
So, this being an MMO, a massive coalition of players on one of the last servers he hadn't spawned on took all the knowledge that had been gathered on all of the other servers, scoured the map, formulated a strategy, and set out with a plan to kill the Sleeper. They'd hang him up on geometry so that he could only use his "kill everybody" attack on a few people at a time, who would immediately be raised by a massive block of clerics all equipped with relic weapons that took months to get, while people gradually ground down his health. It was a glitchy tactic that exploited holes in the map and holes in the game. And when he was getting close to dead, GMs hopped in and forcefully despawned him, because a bunch of significant events in the expansion were scripted to trigger once the Sleeper did his thing after he flew off, and if he died instead, nobody had any idea what would happen. It might break the server permanently. This was a huge controversy, as they say, but also this was a boss that instantly killed anyone he looked at funny, with impossible health, and who took so many players to fight it was destabilizing the server running the zone.
He probably shouldn't be on the list at all, because he's not a boss you fight and beat. But if he is, he's not #64 on the list. He's not below Wood Man. Put him at #1 or leave him off, because everybody else there, you are supposed to beat them as part of playing the game. And the Sleeper's entire thing is that you can't.
posted by kafziel at 12:22 AM on September 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
The Sleeper is, as they say, a boss that was never intended to be killed. It was an Everquest boss that spawned in a special zone called the Sleeper's Tomb, after you killed six other superboss dragons that spawned one after the other in there, whereupon it would instantly kill everybody, fly out, change a bunch of stuff in the world permanently, and disappear. And that was it. No more Sleeper, ever. The Sleeper could only be spawned once per server. It had health only because entities in the game had to have health, and was hurtable only because things in the game had to be hurtable.
So, this being an MMO, a massive coalition of players on one of the last servers he hadn't spawned on took all the knowledge that had been gathered on all of the other servers, scoured the map, formulated a strategy, and set out with a plan to kill the Sleeper. They'd hang him up on geometry so that he could only use his "kill everybody" attack on a few people at a time, who would immediately be raised by a massive block of clerics all equipped with relic weapons that took months to get, while people gradually ground down his health. It was a glitchy tactic that exploited holes in the map and holes in the game. And when he was getting close to dead, GMs hopped in and forcefully despawned him, because a bunch of significant events in the expansion were scripted to trigger once the Sleeper did his thing after he flew off, and if he died instead, nobody had any idea what would happen. It might break the server permanently. This was a huge controversy, as they say, but also this was a boss that instantly killed anyone he looked at funny, with impossible health, and who took so many players to fight it was destabilizing the server running the zone.
He probably shouldn't be on the list at all, because he's not a boss you fight and beat. But if he is, he's not #64 on the list. He's not below Wood Man. Put him at #1 or leave him off, because everybody else there, you are supposed to beat them as part of playing the game. And the Sleeper's entire thing is that you can't.
posted by kafziel at 12:22 AM on September 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
C'Thun really was the apotheosis of Blizzard's raid design. Only ~5% of players ever raided at all, and maybe 5% of those were in guilds that could even go in to Ahn'Qiraj, and maybe 5% of those would ever reach C'Thun. So like .01% of players would ever see this encounter. And then those, none of them could beat it. It's so.. decadent. Sadly Blizzard wised up soon after and started designing raid content for everyone, not just the hardest of the hard corps.
(My claims to WoW fame were beating Sartharion with three drakes and beating the Zul'Aman timers. Before nerfs / mudflation made that too easy. Significant sense of accomplishment for both.)
posted by Nelson at 12:45 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
(My claims to WoW fame were beating Sartharion with three drakes and beating the Zul'Aman timers. Before nerfs / mudflation made that too easy. Significant sense of accomplishment for both.)
posted by Nelson at 12:45 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
You actually played Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning to the end? Ohhh, you're the guy.
Erm. Is it embarassing I played it to the end with pretty much every class and class combo? In fact I am playing it again now with a Sorcery/Finesse build.
Frankly it, and a couple of other games, like Rage and Singularity, are what I consider my "comfort games". They always get installed as long as they will work, and I play them when I need a seriously chill gaming experience.
posted by Samizdata at 1:42 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Erm. Is it embarassing I played it to the end with pretty much every class and class combo? In fact I am playing it again now with a Sorcery/Finesse build.
Frankly it, and a couple of other games, like Rage and Singularity, are what I consider my "comfort games". They always get installed as long as they will work, and I play them when I need a seriously chill gaming experience.
posted by Samizdata at 1:42 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I experienced the rare literal LOL at 92. Landing on the aircraft carrier Top Gun (1987, Nintendo Entertainment System).
That shit was maddening and ridiculous, and I never really thought of it as an enemy boss, but it was. It was.
I also never beat Landing on the Aircraft Carrier. "Fuck this, back to Mario 2" was how I beat Landing on the Aircraft Carrier. Ugh goddamn it, the worst. The entire game could have stopped immediately after that level and a whole generation never would have known.
Some personal favorites not on the list:
1) Granfalloon, Castlevania series (yes I know they started calling this one "Legion" but that's bullshit because for a beautiful moment there was a Kurt Vonnegut callout in a Castlevania game and that's how I'd
2) Balrog - I get why they went with M. Bison, but I always felt this weird fondness for Balrog: the lowest ranking boss who had to fight all the highest ranking world warrior contenders. Where did things start going wrong for him? What does a boxer want with an outfit like Shadoloo, and vice versa? I always felt like Vega bought into Bison's whole weird thing and Sagat probably didn't but Balrog I could never figure out. Also his boss music was the best (unless you catch me on a week where I feel like Vega's is)
3) Karnov from Bad Dudes because it blew my mind to be beating up a different game's protagonist as a level 2 boss. I got very far in Karnov's own game, but I hope there's a level where he gets to beat up the Bad Dudes, that seems only fair.
4) Basically any boss from Strider - cyborg somersaults guy, robo giant ape, the Supreme Soviet that turns into a robocentipede, goddamn Strider had sick bosses.
5) Supply Lines from GTA San Andreas. I was stuck on this single mission for 14 months. Much like Landing on the Aircraft Carrier, Supply Lines is not a mission. Supply Lines was a boss.
HONORABLE MENTION: King Lassic from the first Phantasy Star because he was the first RPG villain I ever defied and defeated, and on the way too him 8 year old me would attribute any weirdness in how the game was programmed to Lassic's evil magic. Honorable mention also to the early Geralt doppleganger boss in Witcher 3 who I think is there mostly to suggest to players that the shield spell is well worth leveling up a little.
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:20 AM on September 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
That shit was maddening and ridiculous, and I never really thought of it as an enemy boss, but it was. It was.
I also never beat Landing on the Aircraft Carrier. "Fuck this, back to Mario 2" was how I beat Landing on the Aircraft Carrier. Ugh goddamn it, the worst. The entire game could have stopped immediately after that level and a whole generation never would have known.
Some personal favorites not on the list:
1) Granfalloon, Castlevania series (yes I know they started calling this one "Legion" but that's bullshit because for a beautiful moment there was a Kurt Vonnegut callout in a Castlevania game and that's how I'd
2) Balrog - I get why they went with M. Bison, but I always felt this weird fondness for Balrog: the lowest ranking boss who had to fight all the highest ranking world warrior contenders. Where did things start going wrong for him? What does a boxer want with an outfit like Shadoloo, and vice versa? I always felt like Vega bought into Bison's whole weird thing and Sagat probably didn't but Balrog I could never figure out. Also his boss music was the best (unless you catch me on a week where I feel like Vega's is)
3) Karnov from Bad Dudes because it blew my mind to be beating up a different game's protagonist as a level 2 boss. I got very far in Karnov's own game, but I hope there's a level where he gets to beat up the Bad Dudes, that seems only fair.
4) Basically any boss from Strider - cyborg somersaults guy, robo giant ape, the Supreme Soviet that turns into a robocentipede, goddamn Strider had sick bosses.
5) Supply Lines from GTA San Andreas. I was stuck on this single mission for 14 months. Much like Landing on the Aircraft Carrier, Supply Lines is not a mission. Supply Lines was a boss.
HONORABLE MENTION: King Lassic from the first Phantasy Star because he was the first RPG villain I ever defied and defeated, and on the way too him 8 year old me would attribute any weirdness in how the game was programmed to Lassic's evil magic. Honorable mention also to the early Geralt doppleganger boss in Witcher 3 who I think is there mostly to suggest to players that the shield spell is well worth leveling up a little.
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:20 AM on September 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I hate all bosses, they're all shit.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 3:36 AM on September 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 3:36 AM on September 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd start complaining about a lack of shmup bosses but I guess that is fair, they would fill the list. But they could have at least thrown a bone to fans and put in Mushihime-sama Futari Ultra Mode last boss or something.
I feel like Alma should be higher. She still has my favorite boss intro even if it looks dated now. The epic music starts up and you see her shadow against the stained glass panels, she breaks through them in slow motion and you have all of these little pieces of glass slowly dropping and then you spend five seconds trying to decide if you really just saw a demon in a thong before she kills you.
The Nameless King is difficult and definitely belongs high on the list but I am pretty sure that I killed him the same day I first fought him. I think the only boss/bosses in any Souls game that I was stuck on for more than a day was Ornstein and Smough and once I figured them out I could consistently beat them again. I replayed Ninja Gaiden Black not long ago on Master Ninja and Alma still made me want to break my controller. It took me days to get past her the first time around.
I think part of it is that you have more options on how to deal with bosses in the Souls games and you can keep trying till you figure out what works, especially with the later games and in Ninja Gaiden it is just... get really, really good or die.
I didn't even play in Vanilla WoW but I'll nominate another Old God, Yogg-Saron with no lights. I subbed for a sick friend when his guild was working on the Alone in the Dark achievement and it was just ridiculous. Also M'uru from BC deserves a mention but I think that was a case of another overtuned boss rather than simply one that was super hard mechanically.
I'm one of the weirdos that really likes Zelda 2 but I could definitely fill a list of 100 hard bosses without getting to Shadow Link. He was a bit startling/strange to deal with but honestly not very hard.
Lastly, no Contra?
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 4:56 AM on September 27, 2017
I feel like Alma should be higher. She still has my favorite boss intro even if it looks dated now. The epic music starts up and you see her shadow against the stained glass panels, she breaks through them in slow motion and you have all of these little pieces of glass slowly dropping and then you spend five seconds trying to decide if you really just saw a demon in a thong before she kills you.
The Nameless King is difficult and definitely belongs high on the list but I am pretty sure that I killed him the same day I first fought him. I think the only boss/bosses in any Souls game that I was stuck on for more than a day was Ornstein and Smough and once I figured them out I could consistently beat them again. I replayed Ninja Gaiden Black not long ago on Master Ninja and Alma still made me want to break my controller. It took me days to get past her the first time around.
I think part of it is that you have more options on how to deal with bosses in the Souls games and you can keep trying till you figure out what works, especially with the later games and in Ninja Gaiden it is just... get really, really good or die.
I didn't even play in Vanilla WoW but I'll nominate another Old God, Yogg-Saron with no lights. I subbed for a sick friend when his guild was working on the Alone in the Dark achievement and it was just ridiculous. Also M'uru from BC deserves a mention but I think that was a case of another overtuned boss rather than simply one that was super hard mechanically.
I'm one of the weirdos that really likes Zelda 2 but I could definitely fill a list of 100 hard bosses without getting to Shadow Link. He was a bit startling/strange to deal with but honestly not very hard.
Lastly, no Contra?
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 4:56 AM on September 27, 2017
kafziel seems to paint the defeat of Kerafyrm as though it exploited bugs or glitches, but working with the geometry of a room to provide cover isn't an exploit. It really sounds like the players on that server beat him within the rules as defined by Sony, and that Sony then got pissy about it until they were shamed into apologizing.
I agree, though, that the Sleeper should clearly be the #1 entry.
re: C'Thun, stories of that encounter were really the only thing that ever made me question my status as "filthy casual." I had never raided AT ALL by that point. I never saw Onyxia, or any other raid boss. I just really enjoyed progression through the world, and found the endgame demands incompatible with the rest of my life, so it never happened.
But C'Thun, though... that sounded awesome.
posted by uberchet at 6:12 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I agree, though, that the Sleeper should clearly be the #1 entry.
re: C'Thun, stories of that encounter were really the only thing that ever made me question my status as "filthy casual." I had never raided AT ALL by that point. I never saw Onyxia, or any other raid boss. I just really enjoyed progression through the world, and found the endgame demands incompatible with the rest of my life, so it never happened.
But C'Thun, though... that sounded awesome.
posted by uberchet at 6:12 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Frankly it, and a couple of other games, like Rage and Singularity, are what I consider my "comfort games". They always get installed as long as they will work, and I play them when I need a seriously chill gaming experience.
Hey, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone; I've done the same for Mass Effect and the Marathon games before that.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:18 AM on September 27, 2017
Hey, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone; I've done the same for Mass Effect and the Marathon games before that.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:18 AM on September 27, 2017
Hi, is this the room where the other people who played Kingdoms of Amalur are hanging out? And is there an awkward secret handshake?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:26 AM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:26 AM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm one of the weirdos that really likes Zelda 2 but I could definitely fill a list of 100 hard bosses without getting to Shadow Link. He was a bit startling/strange to deal with but honestly not very hard.
Shadow Link was mainly hard because you'd rarely have more than 1 life left to fight him after getting your ass thoroughly kicked in by the Thunderbird. That's who I'd put on this list from Zelda 2 - if anyone.
posted by duffell at 6:30 AM on September 27, 2017
Shadow Link was mainly hard because you'd rarely have more than 1 life left to fight him after getting your ass thoroughly kicked in by the Thunderbird. That's who I'd put on this list from Zelda 2 - if anyone.
posted by duffell at 6:30 AM on September 27, 2017
The Velius/Wiegraf fight from Final Fantasy Tactics is probably the thing that stops me from replaying it for the 10th time. Oh and that one with Celia, Lede, and Marquis Elmdore. UGH. In a few days when my SNES comes in, I'm going to attempt to replay Super Ghouls and Ghosts -- a game full of hard everything.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 7:04 AM on September 27, 2017
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 7:04 AM on September 27, 2017
The really shitty thing about Wiegraf is that it's 100% possible to save your game in a no-way-back position before that fight (because there are three fights that lead up to it, each with a save point after, and you can overwrite your save file). So you can be getting along pretty well, and then hit Wiegraf with almost no conceivable way to kill him outside of extreme RNG luck.
posted by codacorolla at 7:05 AM on September 27, 2017
posted by codacorolla at 7:05 AM on September 27, 2017
I forgot about the save fuckery with Wiegraf. That, and the other couple of unfair fights in FFT, really do suck if you aren't either spoiled on them or haven't been very careful with savegame management, which was a tall order back on the PSX memory card.
(There's a particular fight against Gafgarion that you can seemingly screw yourself with, unless you realize that you can walk past that particular battle to go pick up new equipment and grind in a different location; not sure if that's intended. But again, that's a fight that you can make trivial with the right equipment, but only with foreknowledge).
Still love that game though.
posted by dismas at 7:26 AM on September 27, 2017
(There's a particular fight against Gafgarion that you can seemingly screw yourself with, unless you realize that you can walk past that particular battle to go pick up new equipment and grind in a different location; not sure if that's intended. But again, that's a fight that you can make trivial with the right equipment, but only with foreknowledge).
Still love that game though.
posted by dismas at 7:26 AM on September 27, 2017
My all-time favorite RPG series was Ultima, up until 8. None of Ultimas 3-7.5 ended with a boss. I miss those days.
posted by Legomancer at 7:57 AM on September 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Legomancer at 7:57 AM on September 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Still love that game though.
Yeah, same here. Great game, with some really dated design. I think a big problem is that the hard battles are very hard, and everything else is the game is very easy. So the difficulty spikes are basically like sheer cliff faces.
posted by codacorolla at 8:14 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, same here. Great game, with some really dated design. I think a big problem is that the hard battles are very hard, and everything else is the game is very easy. So the difficulty spikes are basically like sheer cliff faces.
posted by codacorolla at 8:14 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, but it's the one I spent the most time playing in like 6th grade so all I want is for them to make games with essentially identical mechanics
posted by dismas at 9:59 AM on September 27, 2017
posted by dismas at 9:59 AM on September 27, 2017
If there is a secret Kingdoms of Amalur handshake then I guess I missed that quest? I don't remember much about the final boss, but I sure did 100% the heck out of that game. Total comfort food.
posted by egypturnash at 10:43 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by egypturnash at 10:43 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
No Jason? Crazy talk. Thought for sure he'd be top ten at least.
posted by wyndham at 10:44 AM on September 27, 2017
posted by wyndham at 10:44 AM on September 27, 2017
Hi, is this the room where the other people who played Kingdoms of Amalur are hanging out? And is there an awkward secret handshake?
Haven't played it yet but I'm definitely Amalur-curious. Either it or Dragon's Dogma are gonna be this winter's weird RPG for me.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:26 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Haven't played it yet but I'm definitely Amalur-curious. Either it or Dragon's Dogma are gonna be this winter's weird RPG for me.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:26 AM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I started Amalur three times, got to the second major area (whose name I don't remember) three times, did a little bit of stuff there and quit three times.
posted by Foosnark at 12:02 PM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Foosnark at 12:02 PM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
If it matters, I also love Zelda 2 and played through it several times as a kid. The final fortress in general is just ridiculous, with its plethora of fake-out passages and overall creepiness.
Friday the 13th deserves mention too...the satisfaction of finally killing Jason, only to find out that you were only halfway done. I mean a third of the way done.
Spend a whole summer on that game.
posted by GreyboxHero at 12:48 PM on September 27, 2017
Friday the 13th deserves mention too...the satisfaction of finally killing Jason, only to find out that you were only halfway done. I mean a third of the way done.
Spend a whole summer on that game.
posted by GreyboxHero at 12:48 PM on September 27, 2017
I'm a bit baffled that they'd include Goro over Kintaro from the sequel of Mortal Kombat. And M. Bison wasn't that bad since he could be rushed.
the Saturn game Magic Knight Rayearth, a top-down action-RPG a la Zelda where you fight the final boss in a vertical scrolling shooter
The SNES version on the other hand was fully jrpg with two significant difficulty bumps. All it took was grinding for thirty mins though due to the design of the game's systems and you could sail on without further resistance.
The list mostly consists of Games You Know, but since they bothered with Mario, I'd put the final boss of Partners in Time. Long, requires reading patterns for evading and good timing for attacking and is a worthy final battle. If course barely anyone played the game, so.
posted by ersatz at 12:12 AM on September 28, 2017
the Saturn game Magic Knight Rayearth, a top-down action-RPG a la Zelda where you fight the final boss in a vertical scrolling shooter
The SNES version on the other hand was fully jrpg with two significant difficulty bumps. All it took was grinding for thirty mins though due to the design of the game's systems and you could sail on without further resistance.
The list mostly consists of Games You Know, but since they bothered with Mario, I'd put the final boss of Partners in Time. Long, requires reading patterns for evading and good timing for attacking and is a worthy final battle. If course barely anyone played the game, so.
posted by ersatz at 12:12 AM on September 28, 2017
Get me a list that includes "Green Grass and High Tides" from Rock Band and we can talk.
posted by dry white toast at 8:46 AM on September 28, 2017
posted by dry white toast at 8:46 AM on September 28, 2017
Also missing is the final boss from The Suffering, who metamorphizes halfway through the fight to become a massive patched together behemoth with your character for a dick.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:08 PM on September 28, 2017
posted by aspersioncast at 7:08 PM on September 28, 2017
I need to to reinstall The Suffering for Halloween, don't I?
And, if I still had my guitar controller (which was in storage when the storage house burned down), I could rechallenge Guitar Hero 3. :sigh:
posted by Samizdata at 8:13 PM on October 2, 2017
And, if I still had my guitar controller (which was in storage when the storage house burned down), I could rechallenge Guitar Hero 3. :sigh:
posted by Samizdata at 8:13 PM on October 2, 2017
36. High Dragon, Dragon Age II. "As one of the toughest fights in Bioware’s high fantasy series, this is a grueling, lengthy contest against a monster that wants nothing more than your blood."
The High Dragon in DA2 felt like a chore to me. The Dragon Age Boss I'd put on this list is the Harvester from The Golems of Amgarrak DLC. That was the hardest fight between DA:O and DA2 that was also satisfying, imo (the Harvester in DA2 was much less so.)
posted by homunculus at 10:30 AM on October 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
The High Dragon in DA2 felt like a chore to me. The Dragon Age Boss I'd put on this list is the Harvester from The Golems of Amgarrak DLC. That was the hardest fight between DA:O and DA2 that was also satisfying, imo (the Harvester in DA2 was much less so.)
posted by homunculus at 10:30 AM on October 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:28 AM on September 26, 2017 [5 favorites]