"For me, the body is just a suitcase for carrying your gender"
June 3, 2018 4:54 AM Subscribe
Having lived as a woman for the past 17 years, she is comfortable using female pronouns rather than “they” or “them” but describes herself as gender-fluid. “My breasts are real, my skin is smooth, I don’t have a beard or take hormones but now I am 57. I have lived life on both sides; sometimes I feel as a man, sometimes I feel as a woman, sometimes I don’t feel anything.”The Guardian interviews Leonne Zeegers, who just won a court case that established the right of people to not be registered as either man or woman and that the Dutch legislature should provide laws to that effect.
I agree, but the fact that she won makes me happy.
posted by Pendragon at 6:10 AM on June 3, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 6:10 AM on June 3, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm glad Zeegers won, and I hope it becomes an easier process for the people who follow.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:08 AM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Dip Flash at 7:08 AM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Huh, I'd never heard of the Yogyakarta Principles. Ironic that they were signed in Indonesia, which imprisons and whips gay men and trans people.
posted by AFABulous at 9:35 AM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by AFABulous at 9:35 AM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
The court said that self-identification prevails over bodily appearance or medical status.
Hopefully this means that the new laws will not be restricted to those born intergender.
posted by Vesihiisi at 12:02 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Hopefully this means that the new laws will not be restricted to those born intergender.
posted by Vesihiisi at 12:02 PM on June 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Great read, thanks!
I'm not sure I understood the way she explained her politics surrounding sex/gender and trans* issues in the last 5-6 paragraphs, can anyone clarify?
posted by alon at 1:37 PM on June 3, 2018
I'm not sure I understood the way she explained her politics surrounding sex/gender and trans* issues in the last 5-6 paragraphs, can anyone clarify?
posted by alon at 1:37 PM on June 3, 2018
I'm not sure I understood the way she explained her politics surrounding sex/gender and trans issues in the last 5-6 paragraphs, can anyone clarify?*
Can you be a bit more specific? She's pretty vague on whether she sees policy implications (and I don't know that I would agree with her if she does), but "Sex is between your legs, gender is between your ears" is a pretty standard slogan (though not one without problems). I think she's trying to make a point that sex (as determined by chromosomes and phenotype) might be reasonably categorised into a relatively small number of classes (though certainly more than two--it's not hard for biologists to come up with 5 or 6), but that is not true for gender.
posted by hoyland at 2:05 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Can you be a bit more specific? She's pretty vague on whether she sees policy implications (and I don't know that I would agree with her if she does), but "Sex is between your legs, gender is between your ears" is a pretty standard slogan (though not one without problems). I think she's trying to make a point that sex (as determined by chromosomes and phenotype) might be reasonably categorised into a relatively small number of classes (though certainly more than two--it's not hard for biologists to come up with 5 or 6), but that is not true for gender.
posted by hoyland at 2:05 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Thanks, holyland.
Specific idea I didn't quite grasp: "[...] it is not time to have a third gender, it’s time to have a third sex."
posted by alon at 2:08 PM on June 3, 2018
Specific idea I didn't quite grasp: "[...] it is not time to have a third gender, it’s time to have a third sex."
posted by alon at 2:08 PM on June 3, 2018
I read that as being a lead in to trying to differentiate sex and gender, but there's honestly not enough detail in the article to know what she means.
posted by hoyland at 2:13 PM on June 3, 2018
posted by hoyland at 2:13 PM on June 3, 2018
I suppose I should say there is also an interpretation that would suggest a position I'd find problematic, to say the least, but the article doesn't exactly have a lot of depth, so I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt.
posted by hoyland at 2:28 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by hoyland at 2:28 PM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Clearly a milestone on the way to a more just society. Not an endpoint, but a first step away from the gender binary. Let's keep going.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:57 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:57 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
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