Emotion is not the antithesis of logic
August 4, 2021 4:51 PM Subscribe
I read A Psalm for the Wild-Built a couple of weeks ago, and really loved how kind and thoughtful and hopeful it felt. Followed it up with The Galaxy and the Ground Within and really want to go back and reread the first books in the Wayfarers series.
But first the Murderbot books... some people on a forum I frequent were talking about them and I assumed they were something other than what it sounds like they are. So those are on my list for sure!
posted by Foosnark at 7:55 PM on August 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
But first the Murderbot books... some people on a forum I frequent were talking about them and I assumed they were something other than what it sounds like they are. So those are on my list for sure!
posted by Foosnark at 7:55 PM on August 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thank you for the reminder of a local bookstore. I will now plan a healthy and expensive wander to Brookline Booksmith, and maybe a longer jaunt to Pandemonium in Central Square. I can even hope for Novid to crest and to make Brookline Knight Moves less fraught, TTS is just not the same.
I will admit i just can't get into Chambers despite several attempts but Wells is on my must-read list, as is Anders. Perhaps its time to try Chambers again. i am afraid to dip too far into Clarkes Piranesi in case i find the last page or lose its warm and unsettling comfort.
posted by bolix at 7:59 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I will admit i just can't get into Chambers despite several attempts but Wells is on my must-read list, as is Anders. Perhaps its time to try Chambers again. i am afraid to dip too far into Clarkes Piranesi in case i find the last page or lose its warm and unsettling comfort.
posted by bolix at 7:59 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I like both Chambers' and Wells' works (at least the Murderbot Diaries; I haven't yet gotten into Wells' other stuff) quite a lot. I admire Chambers for not just churning out books set on the Wayfarer itself (in part because I find the character of Kizzy just a bit much), and I suspect that I'm not the only person who identifies with Murderbot.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:26 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:26 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Re: other Wells' other stuff, I recommend the Books of the Raksura series. Even before Murderbot, those were comfort re-reads for me.
posted by Anonymous Function at 9:29 PM on August 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Anonymous Function at 9:29 PM on August 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yes, The Cloud Roads and its followups are great reads
posted by Windopaene at 10:18 PM on August 4, 2021
posted by Windopaene at 10:18 PM on August 4, 2021
What a wonderful interview, could have listened to them forever.
I do like the idea from one of the questions of a Simarillion of the Wayfarers series, the launching of the Exodus Fleet would be a tremendously interesting and tragic setting.
Plus, more Murderbot!
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:12 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I do like the idea from one of the questions of a Simarillion of the Wayfarers series, the launching of the Exodus Fleet would be a tremendously interesting and tragic setting.
Plus, more Murderbot!
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:12 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Reminds me of a long online argument I had years ago with some woman who kept insisting that "fact" and "emotion" were antonyms. I can state my opinion with the affect of a Vulcan or state a fact like it's a line from a Victorian melodrama, but that doesn't magically turn one into the other. And what's worse, she kept going on about how "fact vs. emotion" was the most important lesson she was was making it a mission to teach her Christian-homeschooled children.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:49 PM on August 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:49 PM on August 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
Fun thing about the Raksura books is that the author manage to pull of breaking the rule of having to pick either "familiar characters, strange setting" or "strange characters, familiar setting" that I've seen laid out for fantasy / SF literature.
posted by Harald74 at 12:35 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Harald74 at 12:35 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've not seen the video yet, but I've read most of both Chambers' and Wells' output during the previous couple of years, after having them recommended time and again in Ask threads like Please help restore my faith in humanity and Book recommendations: likable characters, good writing, humor. As I'm aging and the world is grim and dark enough as it is, I've feel like I'm looking for more books like the ones in the linked Asks, and I've been very happy with both these authors.
posted by Harald74 at 12:41 AM on August 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Harald74 at 12:41 AM on August 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
I don't think I've read a Wells book that wasn't very good to great. Although I'm an outlier in that I really cherish her first book, The Element of Fire, which just hits me in all the right ways. (I think other people like it but don't love it, but I adore Kade.)
I read Chambers' first book and liked it, but wasn't moved to read any more.
posted by PussKillian at 7:53 AM on August 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
I read Chambers' first book and liked it, but wasn't moved to read any more.
posted by PussKillian at 7:53 AM on August 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
I reread The Element of Fire more than any of Wells' books except Murderbot. (Some of her books, I have never reread, I confess.) Kade is ♥.
posted by Quasirandom at 8:24 AM on August 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Quasirandom at 8:24 AM on August 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Murderbot tries so hard. Murderbot just wants to watch soap operas in peace.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 8:34 AM on August 5, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 8:34 AM on August 5, 2021 [15 favorites]
I love the Murderbot books so much, they are like classic cliff hanger, adventure books. I would much rather have seen Wells paired with Ann Leckie or Arkady Martine though. Especially Ann Leckie because of her Ancillary series and the work throughs that artificial intelligences, sentience and personhood get in those books and the Murderbot stories. I’ve only read Long Way Round… in Chambers Wayfarer series and I hate to admit that I couldn’t finish it. The characters felt flat and the inclusivity felt forced and sentimental.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 8:43 AM on August 5, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 8:43 AM on August 5, 2021 [7 favorites]
Murderbot tries so hard.
Murderbot almost always does the bare minimum, even for humans and augmented humans it cares about. But Murderbot is like a sysadmin talking to regular folks who don't understand that what *they're* doing isn't even close to being the bare minimum.
If you ever think Murderbot is trying hard, that's because the level of effort you're putting into your own self-preservation and the preservation of those you care about can be summarized as "catastrophically less than zero" from its point of view.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:38 AM on August 5, 2021 [12 favorites]
Murderbot almost always does the bare minimum, even for humans and augmented humans it cares about. But Murderbot is like a sysadmin talking to regular folks who don't understand that what *they're* doing isn't even close to being the bare minimum.
If you ever think Murderbot is trying hard, that's because the level of effort you're putting into your own self-preservation and the preservation of those you care about can be summarized as "catastrophically less than zero" from its point of view.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:38 AM on August 5, 2021 [12 favorites]
I dragged myself through Chambers' first book, but I felt the science fictional elements of the society were poorly thought out and incoherent. That coupled with uninteresting characters doesn't make me read any more from her.
Wells, on the other hand, can write great science fiction, great urban fantasy, and great characters. I would probably even enjoy reading her shopping lists!
posted by monotreme at 9:56 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Wells, on the other hand, can write great science fiction, great urban fantasy, and great characters. I would probably even enjoy reading her shopping lists!
posted by monotreme at 9:56 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah I really love the tone and characters of Chambers' stories but fell off pretty hard at Record of a Spaceborn Few (warning: a lot of nitpicky spoilery gripes).
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:29 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:29 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I would much rather have seen Wells paired with Ann Leckie or Arkady Martine though
Not quite what you asked for but don't miss Ann Leckie and Arkady Martine chatting.
posted by restless_nomad at 2:51 PM on August 5, 2021
Not quite what you asked for but don't miss Ann Leckie and Arkady Martine chatting.
posted by restless_nomad at 2:51 PM on August 5, 2021
>> Murderbot tries so hard.
> Murderbot almost always does the bare minimum, even for humans and augmented humans it cares about. But Murderbot is like a sysadmin talking to regular folks who don't understand that what *they're* doing isn't even close to being the bare minimum.
I have the impression (haven't actually taken a poll or anything) that a LOT of autistic folks read the Murderbot stories and think "oh, this is me! or me as I would be if I were a massively-weaponized cyborg. but the thought processes! this is me!"
Which is not to disagree with either of the comments I'm quoting. For me, as I read Murderbot, there's a deeply humane [noting issues with that term in this context] and empathetic grounding.
posted by Lexica at 4:24 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
> Murderbot almost always does the bare minimum, even for humans and augmented humans it cares about. But Murderbot is like a sysadmin talking to regular folks who don't understand that what *they're* doing isn't even close to being the bare minimum.
I have the impression (haven't actually taken a poll or anything) that a LOT of autistic folks read the Murderbot stories and think "oh, this is me! or me as I would be if I were a massively-weaponized cyborg. but the thought processes! this is me!"
Which is not to disagree with either of the comments I'm quoting. For me, as I read Murderbot, there's a deeply humane [noting issues with that term in this context] and empathetic grounding.
posted by Lexica at 4:24 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
For those who weren't into Wayfarers, A Psalm for the Wild-Built was a very different thing. A small and cozy story, in a setting could as easily have been Earth. A little suspension of disbelief is required. but mostly reading it is like being hugged by a book.
posted by Foosnark at 6:02 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Foosnark at 6:02 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm several chapters into A Psalm for the Wild-Built, the use of the newish style pronouns "they/them" in a SFF book leaves me watching for a science fiction reveal that the protagonist is a multiple person of some sort, a cyborg with multiple minds, a hive person, a person with a controlling worm inside, or some other non-singular entity(entities).
Small derail, but the use of the singular ‘they’ pronoun is a return to a common usage dating back to at least 1375, falling out of favour in the more prescriptivist 1800s and now returning in both real world and science fictional contexts. It’s not really new.
Becky Chambers is a great panellist, I saw her doing a panel on space pirates and world building with Stark Holborn at Cymera (an SFF festival here in Scotland) and it was a delight.
posted by Happy Dave at 9:50 AM on August 6, 2021 [6 favorites]
Small derail, but the use of the singular ‘they’ pronoun is a return to a common usage dating back to at least 1375, falling out of favour in the more prescriptivist 1800s and now returning in both real world and science fictional contexts. It’s not really new.
Becky Chambers is a great panellist, I saw her doing a panel on space pirates and world building with Stark Holborn at Cymera (an SFF festival here in Scotland) and it was a delight.
posted by Happy Dave at 9:50 AM on August 6, 2021 [6 favorites]
Yeah I really love the tone and characters of Chambers' stories but fell off pretty hard at Record of a Spaceborn Few (warning: a lot of nitpicky spoilery gripes).
I feel like that's the weakest one, tbh. If you liked the others, I would read the fourth one.
posted by Literaryhero at 2:32 PM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
I feel like that's the weakest one, tbh. If you liked the others, I would read the fourth one.
posted by Literaryhero at 2:32 PM on August 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Murderbot tries so hard not to be involved most of the time. Free will is a dangerous thing.
Are we really accusing the same Murderbot that has gone up against multiple CombatUnits of doing the "bare minimum'? I think all right-thinking people are not.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 9:11 AM on August 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Are we really accusing the same Murderbot that has gone up against multiple CombatUnits of doing the "bare minimum'? I think all right-thinking people are not.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 9:11 AM on August 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Thank you for sharing this video. I had a lovely late night listen to it while knitting on the couch, with my two rats running around and exploring.
I write hope punk sci fi as well so this was inspiring and made me feel included in the writing world, which is not something I often feel.
I found Becky Chambers' books quite different from one another and I can see that some people might click better with some than with others. Long way to a small angry planet is probably the lightest of them - I enjoy it, but I did not find it as emotionally compelling as A close and common orbit for example. I love that book, the descriptions of the AI's disconnect from her body was particularly compelling. I also enjoyed Psalm for the Wild Built. It has a wise, calm, kind message that I needed to hear right now.
posted by Zumbador at 7:39 AM on August 18, 2021
I write hope punk sci fi as well so this was inspiring and made me feel included in the writing world, which is not something I often feel.
I found Becky Chambers' books quite different from one another and I can see that some people might click better with some than with others. Long way to a small angry planet is probably the lightest of them - I enjoy it, but I did not find it as emotionally compelling as A close and common orbit for example. I love that book, the descriptions of the AI's disconnect from her body was particularly compelling. I also enjoyed Psalm for the Wild Built. It has a wise, calm, kind message that I needed to hear right now.
posted by Zumbador at 7:39 AM on August 18, 2021
Are we really accusing the same Murderbot that has gone up against multiple CombatUnits of doing the "bare minimum'?
Murderbot never does any more than it absolutely has to to achieve the goal, but its goals are hard to achieve. It's absolutely going to do what it has to to protect the humans or augmented humans it's decided or contracted to protect, but not one bit more than that. That's Sanctuary Moon time.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:13 AM on August 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Murderbot never does any more than it absolutely has to to achieve the goal, but its goals are hard to achieve. It's absolutely going to do what it has to to protect the humans or augmented humans it's decided or contracted to protect, but not one bit more than that. That's Sanctuary Moon time.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:13 AM on August 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
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