Are smartphones and social media causing a teen mental health crisis?
April 1, 2023 7:29 AM Subscribe
Don't panic about social media harming your child's mental health – the evidence is weak [ungated] - "We're told the internet destroys children's mental health – but Stuart Ritchie read all the relevant studies and saw little to support the claim."[1,2]
Sure I can. The little dopamine box is good for your mental health.
You can trust me. I've done surveys. Got a clipboard and everything.
posted by flabdablet at 7:46 AM on April 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
You can trust me. I've done surveys. Got a clipboard and everything.
posted by flabdablet at 7:46 AM on April 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
I think there is a pretty strong argument to be made that it is, in fact, the World which is causing mental health problems, and phones represent one of the few forms of escapism/connection that remain readily available to young people.
That being said, I definitely miss my flip-phone sometimes. An elegant device, for a more civilized age.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:58 AM on April 1, 2023 [33 favorites]
That being said, I definitely miss my flip-phone sometimes. An elegant device, for a more civilized age.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:58 AM on April 1, 2023 [33 favorites]
Ha! I have to assume that anything that affects my mental health negatively, as a full grown adult, does it much more intensely for a thirteen year-old. But then again, I was thirteen when I signed up for Facebook, maybe it just takes some time to really kick in /s
posted by vocativecase at 8:07 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by vocativecase at 8:07 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
in my world, what seems clear is that smartphones and whatnot are causing a parent mental health crisis.
posted by philip-random at 8:08 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 8:08 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
I don't know whether social media affects mental health in the aggregate. But I'm with Stuart on this: Having read the relevant literature (or at least, quite a lot of it), I don't see any evidence that social media is bad for mental health. I haven't seen any reason to think that it's good for mental health, either. But there's definitely not enough here for any kind of moral panic.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 8:12 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 8:12 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I mean, could one break out content to study? Tumblr circa 2014 was extremely bad for my (full grown adult) mental health. Certain types of facebook groups were extremely destructive for a good friend. On the other hand, blogs were great for my mental health back when there were blogs, and twitter is a real toss-up.
The dopamine box angle is bad, of course, but jokes are good and I like twitter for jokes.
Also yesterday there was that post about the study of the town before and after TV. Now that we're all glued to screens all the time, are the screens bad for us or is it that doing non-screen things would be good for us? My city and my neighborhood have both deteriorated a LOT in the past five or six years. I was just reflecting that it's difficult to go for a walk right now because you have to walk at least half a mile in any direction before it stops being run-down, over-policed and full of the very visible suffering of the homeless and precarious, and while yes, I do at least some activism about those things, it would be nice if society had not decided that it was okay to produce hellscapes. My point being that screens are frankly a lot funner than going for a walk right now, and even the biking is not nearly as good as it used to be although half a mile on a bike is done quickly.
I mean, I feel like my mental health has deteriorated, but the normal things that one would do to address this are not very accessible, so cheerful screens are the best I can find?
posted by Frowner at 8:15 AM on April 1, 2023 [21 favorites]
The dopamine box angle is bad, of course, but jokes are good and I like twitter for jokes.
Also yesterday there was that post about the study of the town before and after TV. Now that we're all glued to screens all the time, are the screens bad for us or is it that doing non-screen things would be good for us? My city and my neighborhood have both deteriorated a LOT in the past five or six years. I was just reflecting that it's difficult to go for a walk right now because you have to walk at least half a mile in any direction before it stops being run-down, over-policed and full of the very visible suffering of the homeless and precarious, and while yes, I do at least some activism about those things, it would be nice if society had not decided that it was okay to produce hellscapes. My point being that screens are frankly a lot funner than going for a walk right now, and even the biking is not nearly as good as it used to be although half a mile on a bike is done quickly.
I mean, I feel like my mental health has deteriorated, but the normal things that one would do to address this are not very accessible, so cheerful screens are the best I can find?
posted by Frowner at 8:15 AM on April 1, 2023 [21 favorites]
I’m an adult and I know this thing makes *me* miserable. I switched to a vintage-style Nokia dumbphone for a bit and I felt so much better…but life was too hard to manage without it. Finally caved when my work started a new 2FA system that required an app.
I’m sure that, like anything, there are many reasons why teenagers are more depressed, and the article is correct in that the studies are weak. But I am not sure how you could prove this; it’s not like we have a big control group of otherwise similar non-smartphone users to compare with.
posted by vanitas at 8:18 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m sure that, like anything, there are many reasons why teenagers are more depressed, and the article is correct in that the studies are weak. But I am not sure how you could prove this; it’s not like we have a big control group of otherwise similar non-smartphone users to compare with.
posted by vanitas at 8:18 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
I feel like something that typically goes underreported is that reports of teen depression, suicidality, hopelessness, etc., really are up a lot over the last 10 years, but are still noticeably lower than they were when I and a lot of other parents of teens were teens in the 80s and 90s. Maybe the question is not so much "what's so bad about teen life these days" but "what was so great about teen life in the first decade of the 21st century?"
posted by escabeche at 8:29 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by escabeche at 8:29 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
Claims that social media and smartphone use produce negative mental health effects are largely denied by social media and smartphone users? A shock, to be sure.
posted by cupcakeninja at 8:35 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 8:35 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
The teen mental health crisis is related to anxiety, which is a normal experience, except the levels are now higher. It is usually learned and can be resolved with awareness of the triggers. There is one single course of study which is known to cause extreme anxiety related to memory overload, and it is math of course. Math usually does not wait for anyone on their own learning terms because it is taught at the same speed as other subjects that use a natural language and allow for personalized focus. Math is also stuck in the middle of a teens best years for social development and is outdated as a cold war filter to finding talent. As a result it is most often relearned, and rampant cheating has only increased anxiety and made it a sham. But the real problem is that math is just a poor substitute for logic and persuasive argument, because parents want their kids to be controllable and measurable at something difficult. The mistake is that learning free inquiry and presentation of ideas at risk allows kids to make better decisions and runs circles around math for brain and social development.
posted by Brian B. at 8:41 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Brian B. at 8:41 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'd like to see the mental health graph mapped against other things as well because smartphones aren't the only thing that's changed recently. I'd love to see it against family disposable income levels and also perceptions around college/university admissions. The kids I have talked to lately who have talked about struggling have been struggling more with those kinds of things.
So much also depends on what's happening on the smartphone and social media. I have a teen in my sphere who was being bullied (on and offline) and the 24/7 nature of it was just awful. I was bullied as a kid and I can't imagine not getting a break (without confiscating the phone.)
My youngest doesn't have a phone yet, but he has another device with Snapchat. Over March Break there was some grade 6 drama going on so he put it in a drawer. But again - March Break should kind of be a break from grade 6 drama and it followed him into our home (he wasn't directly involved.)
My oldest has a smartphone and he does stay up waaaay too late talking to his friends on Discord, which definitely can impact his health. He's working on the limits (with us) but he's about to go to university, so I feel he needs to work on it so he develops the real skills.
Still, in all of the cases I've outlined, I think the difficulty is related to a point in the blog post. When my kids are doing other things, and having a full range of experiences, I don't think the social media takes over. It's the times that they are giving up other opportunities that it seems to impact their moods. So I kind of wonder if the change in mental health is also related to things like...public transit availability, the cost of extra curriculars, the global pandemic, whether kids have to work to support their families, etc.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:44 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
So much also depends on what's happening on the smartphone and social media. I have a teen in my sphere who was being bullied (on and offline) and the 24/7 nature of it was just awful. I was bullied as a kid and I can't imagine not getting a break (without confiscating the phone.)
My youngest doesn't have a phone yet, but he has another device with Snapchat. Over March Break there was some grade 6 drama going on so he put it in a drawer. But again - March Break should kind of be a break from grade 6 drama and it followed him into our home (he wasn't directly involved.)
My oldest has a smartphone and he does stay up waaaay too late talking to his friends on Discord, which definitely can impact his health. He's working on the limits (with us) but he's about to go to university, so I feel he needs to work on it so he develops the real skills.
Still, in all of the cases I've outlined, I think the difficulty is related to a point in the blog post. When my kids are doing other things, and having a full range of experiences, I don't think the social media takes over. It's the times that they are giving up other opportunities that it seems to impact their moods. So I kind of wonder if the change in mental health is also related to things like...public transit availability, the cost of extra curriculars, the global pandemic, whether kids have to work to support their families, etc.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:44 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think I know what's stressing kids out these days:
Safety, or the lack of it because of:
guns
environmental collapse
clearly inept governing
bad if not outright aggressive policing
I dunno, pandemic stuff
ya know KIDS STUFF
posted by djseafood at 8:48 AM on April 1, 2023 [19 favorites]
Safety, or the lack of it because of:
guns
environmental collapse
clearly inept governing
bad if not outright aggressive policing
I dunno, pandemic stuff
ya know KIDS STUFF
posted by djseafood at 8:48 AM on April 1, 2023 [19 favorites]
there's definitely not enough here for any kind of moral panic.
Let’s see, we’ve got your garden variety evangelical control freaks, and teenagers living their lives their own way. Oh yes, I think we have miter than enough here for moral panic.
posted by evilDoug at 9:08 AM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Let’s see, we’ve got your garden variety evangelical control freaks, and teenagers living their lives their own way. Oh yes, I think we have miter than enough here for moral panic.
posted by evilDoug at 9:08 AM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
The most important point in TFA is that we don't have good data, especially where teens are concerned, because of how heavily psychological research on minors is regulated, and because you need parental consent. Yes, the evidence is weak; that doesn't mean that smartphones and social media are fine, it means that it's hard to point to good research that shows they're not fine. And that's not because researchers are doing bad research, or not doing enough research; as far as I can tell, it's because it's really hard to design and carry out research on this kind of thing in an ethical way.
(I know a little bit about this because I'm a librarian at a community college and composition students are really into researching the effects of smartphones and social media on mental health!)
I do wonder - because I was in that first generation of Livejournal users for whom Livejournal was as much mental health support group (and frequently, uh, the opposite of that) as anything else - whether teen mental illness is more visible now partly because it's less stigmatized, because sharing information about emotions and experiences (and diagnoses, and meds) has become so much more widespread.
And yeah, my gut feeling is that as we do more and better research, we're going to find that social media isn't great for mental health, but it's complicated because of the ways in which it can be simultaneously a connection to bad news, a way to stay in touch with your friends, a way for your bullies and harassers to stay in touch with you, a connection to needed support. But in the absence of good research and concrete data, could I take away my kid's iPhone based on a gut feeling and anecdotal evidence? (If I had a kid, which, fortunately, I don't)
posted by Jeanne at 9:13 AM on April 1, 2023 [14 favorites]
(I know a little bit about this because I'm a librarian at a community college and composition students are really into researching the effects of smartphones and social media on mental health!)
I do wonder - because I was in that first generation of Livejournal users for whom Livejournal was as much mental health support group (and frequently, uh, the opposite of that) as anything else - whether teen mental illness is more visible now partly because it's less stigmatized, because sharing information about emotions and experiences (and diagnoses, and meds) has become so much more widespread.
And yeah, my gut feeling is that as we do more and better research, we're going to find that social media isn't great for mental health, but it's complicated because of the ways in which it can be simultaneously a connection to bad news, a way to stay in touch with your friends, a way for your bullies and harassers to stay in touch with you, a connection to needed support. But in the absence of good research and concrete data, could I take away my kid's iPhone based on a gut feeling and anecdotal evidence? (If I had a kid, which, fortunately, I don't)
posted by Jeanne at 9:13 AM on April 1, 2023 [14 favorites]
I think that smartphones were probably the worst thing to happen to the internet in a long time. Along with SPAs and infinite scroll/the stream. Of course that's all related to pushing eyeballs/advertising/algos which is another factor.
But the short text length + SPA/infiniscroll/"Stream" to me seems the problem.
I think we aren't even fully cognizant just how much things have really changed in society due to "social media" (post 2011 in particular).
posted by symbioid at 9:29 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
But the short text length + SPA/infiniscroll/"Stream" to me seems the problem.
I think we aren't even fully cognizant just how much things have really changed in society due to "social media" (post 2011 in particular).
posted by symbioid at 9:29 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Fuck the studies.
If you want any proof that social media is bad for mental health: get off social media. If you can stay off for six months you will never go back on. Isn't that proof enough?
posted by dobbs at 9:30 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
If you want any proof that social media is bad for mental health: get off social media. If you can stay off for six months you will never go back on. Isn't that proof enough?
posted by dobbs at 9:30 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Really, the issue with social media is that everyone you know is on it, sees it, and can easily pass on whatever they want to about you on it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:32 AM on April 1, 2023
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:32 AM on April 1, 2023
When my kids are doing other things, and having a full range of experiences, I don't think the social media takes over. It's the times that they are giving up other opportunities that it seems to impact their moods.
back in my childhood (the 1960s into the 1970s), this sort of thing tended to manifest in getting home from school, ducking into the rec-room, tuning in Gilligan's Island (or whatever) and zombying out until my mom stuck her head in and said, "It's a nice day. Go outside and play. That's an order."
Not suggesting then was better. It just seems like a forever-dynamic. Kids will always lose themselves in the latest mediated diversion, and if allowed to get genuinely lost, the result will be good for neither them nor their culture. But the flip of it is -- that mediated diversion is very much an aspect of the reality they will grow into and inhabit. For my mom's generation, it was radio. For her mom's generation, it was probably something like movies, or even something as basic as electric light. So to deny this latest media reality is to deny the future. And more to the point, living within this future comes naturally to children, being flexible in all manner of ways -- they will naturally ease into it because, from their perspective, it's simply what "normal" is.
Which gets back to my earlier bit of snark
what seems clear is that smartphones and whatnot are causing a parent mental health crisis.
I'm not really joking here. It's too often "mature" adults who are blowing themselves up on and/or because of social media. Because they've come to it too late in their development. They lost their aptitude for learning new stuff. So they view this latest thing as a threat. Or they get lost in it, get confused, get scared. Either way, they end up acting out of fear, which never really goes well.
And so on.
posted by philip-random at 9:34 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
back in my childhood (the 1960s into the 1970s), this sort of thing tended to manifest in getting home from school, ducking into the rec-room, tuning in Gilligan's Island (or whatever) and zombying out until my mom stuck her head in and said, "It's a nice day. Go outside and play. That's an order."
Not suggesting then was better. It just seems like a forever-dynamic. Kids will always lose themselves in the latest mediated diversion, and if allowed to get genuinely lost, the result will be good for neither them nor their culture. But the flip of it is -- that mediated diversion is very much an aspect of the reality they will grow into and inhabit. For my mom's generation, it was radio. For her mom's generation, it was probably something like movies, or even something as basic as electric light. So to deny this latest media reality is to deny the future. And more to the point, living within this future comes naturally to children, being flexible in all manner of ways -- they will naturally ease into it because, from their perspective, it's simply what "normal" is.
Which gets back to my earlier bit of snark
what seems clear is that smartphones and whatnot are causing a parent mental health crisis.
I'm not really joking here. It's too often "mature" adults who are blowing themselves up on and/or because of social media. Because they've come to it too late in their development. They lost their aptitude for learning new stuff. So they view this latest thing as a threat. Or they get lost in it, get confused, get scared. Either way, they end up acting out of fear, which never really goes well.
And so on.
posted by philip-random at 9:34 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
Turns out you can do lots of stuff to a kid just because you want to! Have you seen the things some people tell their kids? And the stuff they let them watch? Indoctrination is sort of an inalienable right of parents.
Anyway, I'm of the opinion the diversity of 'social media' is too big to have much overall trend.
Like infinite doom scroll on angry FB is a lot different than discussion on Metafilter (which many people don't even consider 'social media', even as they sit here and socialize with us on this site!).
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:35 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
Anyway, I'm of the opinion the diversity of 'social media' is too big to have much overall trend.
Like infinite doom scroll on angry FB is a lot different than discussion on Metafilter (which many people don't even consider 'social media', even as they sit here and socialize with us on this site!).
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:35 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
so, it's like swimming in the ocean. Some areas are terribly dangerous. Some are pretty damned safe. Knowledge of the territory becomes key. And getting educated, picking up skills. If you're skills are up to it, you can handle depths and currents that would be deadly to many.
posted by philip-random at 9:40 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 9:40 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
My life work right now is protecting kids in this space. It's incredibly dangerous to lose your entire identity before you even understand what that is/means.
posted by lextex at 9:45 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by lextex at 9:45 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Isn't that proof enough?
No. I'm kind of dismayed that this has to be said, but no. We as humans are terribly bad at knowing our own mental lives, the causes of our mental states, and the causes of our behaviors. Introspection is almost entirely worthless. And anecdotes or individual personal reports are not very informative when we're concerned with a policy question, either locally in terms of how we should interact with our children or our students, or globally in terms of what laws we should have with respect to social media consumption.
So, no. The answer is no, it's not proof enough.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 10:28 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
No. I'm kind of dismayed that this has to be said, but no. We as humans are terribly bad at knowing our own mental lives, the causes of our mental states, and the causes of our behaviors. Introspection is almost entirely worthless. And anecdotes or individual personal reports are not very informative when we're concerned with a policy question, either locally in terms of how we should interact with our children or our students, or globally in terms of what laws we should have with respect to social media consumption.
So, no. The answer is no, it's not proof enough.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 10:28 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
I personally struggle to understand why this tech grabs folks so hard. I love twitter -- during a wait in line that could be 2-15 minutes -- it's perfect, not enough time to really read something but, well line waiting distraction. And I have a few instagram topics that I scroll through in a similar time constrained situation, and I struggle to keep on topic, the cute animal injections, while cute, need to be tamped down with a few not interested clicks.
Ticktok grabbed me for an hour or so, really grabbed - lost track of time, really spooky the number of insanely complex domino patterns, who is doing these mini-productions all over their house or a fancy hotel?
Anyway just a transition, Apples AR headset may be released soon (finally one that works:) and we'll have deep interaction with real time disney characters all day long and won't have time for ticktok.
posted by sammyo at 10:32 AM on April 1, 2023
Ticktok grabbed me for an hour or so, really grabbed - lost track of time, really spooky the number of insanely complex domino patterns, who is doing these mini-productions all over their house or a fancy hotel?
Anyway just a transition, Apples AR headset may be released soon (finally one that works:) and we'll have deep interaction with real time disney characters all day long and won't have time for ticktok.
posted by sammyo at 10:32 AM on April 1, 2023
Air pollution linked to more severe mental illness – study
Small increases in air pollution linked to rise in depression, finds study
How air pollution threatens brain health
Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study
We Need to Talk About Climate Change and Suicide: The data we have suggests a connection—and the problem may be growing.
Ozone linked to depression in adolescents: Even “fairly low exposure” could raise risk of mental health issues, according to new research.
Growing up in dirty air 'quadruples chances of developing depression'
Effects of short-term exposure to particulate matter air pollution on cognitive performance
The Effect of Low Ventilation Rates on the Cognitive Function of a Primary School Class
Continued CO2 emissions will impair cognition
Genes and Air Pollution Multiply Healthy People’s Risk of Depression
Nearly all of us are breathing poor quality air, World Health Organization says
posted by MrVisible at 10:41 AM on April 1, 2023 [11 favorites]
Small increases in air pollution linked to rise in depression, finds study
How air pollution threatens brain health
Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study
We Need to Talk About Climate Change and Suicide: The data we have suggests a connection—and the problem may be growing.
Ozone linked to depression in adolescents: Even “fairly low exposure” could raise risk of mental health issues, according to new research.
Growing up in dirty air 'quadruples chances of developing depression'
Effects of short-term exposure to particulate matter air pollution on cognitive performance
The Effect of Low Ventilation Rates on the Cognitive Function of a Primary School Class
Continued CO2 emissions will impair cognition
Genes and Air Pollution Multiply Healthy People’s Risk of Depression
Nearly all of us are breathing poor quality air, World Health Organization says
posted by MrVisible at 10:41 AM on April 1, 2023 [11 favorites]
If you're skills are up to it, you can handle depths and currents that would be deadly to many.
I think we'd lose fewer kids if surveillance capitalists didn't keep building drowning machines.
I know for a repeatedly verified fact that if my own mental health starts getting a bit iffy, one of the first red lights that glows on my dashboard is a marked and sudden decrease in the compassion I feel for folks asking questions on AskMe (MeFi being the only social media site on which I actively participate) and the single best thing I can do to improve it is just not use the Web at all for two weeks.
This does involve some increase in time spent doing things that are better for my physical health than sitting on my arse in a comfy chair, but not much. Mostly, I just read more stuff on paper. The stress that time off the Web removes is that of knowing that what I'm doing right now makes me answerable to the judgement of an entire planet full of humans. The self-censorship that this brings on is just fatiguing. I think everybody benefits from a bit of a vacation from feeling a need to present as their best selves.
I personally struggle to understand why this tech grabs folks so hard.
This behaviour is by design.
posted by flabdablet at 10:47 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think we'd lose fewer kids if surveillance capitalists didn't keep building drowning machines.
I know for a repeatedly verified fact that if my own mental health starts getting a bit iffy, one of the first red lights that glows on my dashboard is a marked and sudden decrease in the compassion I feel for folks asking questions on AskMe (MeFi being the only social media site on which I actively participate) and the single best thing I can do to improve it is just not use the Web at all for two weeks.
This does involve some increase in time spent doing things that are better for my physical health than sitting on my arse in a comfy chair, but not much. Mostly, I just read more stuff on paper. The stress that time off the Web removes is that of knowing that what I'm doing right now makes me answerable to the judgement of an entire planet full of humans. The self-censorship that this brings on is just fatiguing. I think everybody benefits from a bit of a vacation from feeling a need to present as their best selves.
I personally struggle to understand why this tech grabs folks so hard.
This behaviour is by design.
posted by flabdablet at 10:47 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
Lots of anti science sentiment in here, which I think would quickly turn around if the studies said something different.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:17 AM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:17 AM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
I know there is evidence that Instagram can be harmful to the mental health of teenage girls. Evidence being internal Facebook studies they hushed up.
That doesn't mean it was harmful for all.
I think, as compared to an alternative universe with no social media and instead equivalent other options for social life, maybe that would be better. But now it's such a central part of social life for many people, and has been so during their formative years. Those things stick.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:19 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
That doesn't mean it was harmful for all.
I think, as compared to an alternative universe with no social media and instead equivalent other options for social life, maybe that would be better. But now it's such a central part of social life for many people, and has been so during their formative years. Those things stick.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:19 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
I’ve been endeavoring not to respond too seriously to this post, but the article’s basic proposition flies in the face of substantial research and anecdotal evidence that smartphones and social media can have deeply negative effects. And as flabdablet points at, they are engineered to be that way, and people with the skills to make those bad effects worse are in high demand. We here at MetaFilter do pretty much like the internet, I get it, but this thread has a serious “actually it’s not guns that kill people” vibe.
I don’t expect incontrovertible evidence anytime soon—for many of the same methodological reasons that drawing links between smoking tobacco and lung cancer is ever correlative, never causative. There are too many confounding factors at work, and (crucially) too much money to be made to do otherwise. That doesn’t mean these things aren’t a problem.
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:37 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
I don’t expect incontrovertible evidence anytime soon—for many of the same methodological reasons that drawing links between smoking tobacco and lung cancer is ever correlative, never causative. There are too many confounding factors at work, and (crucially) too much money to be made to do otherwise. That doesn’t mean these things aren’t a problem.
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:37 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
[air pollution link dump]
I don't think it's only what we dump in the air. I think it's what we dump in everything.
Like every other species, we modify our habitat by discarding stuff we don't want into it, and as is true for every species, dumping our trash into our habitat faster than our habitat can reprocess it fucks our habitat up for us.
There are eight billion of us now, our habitat is the whole planet, and we're discarding stuff into it at a rate that's demonstrably been fucking vast swathes of it up badly for at least a couple hundred years; a rate, furthermore, that shows no real sign of decreasing. We're also using up literally countless literally irreplaceable planetary resources because doing so is the only way we can keep on feeding and housing ourselves in anything like these numbers. It's not only our CO2 emissions that look like a hockey stick when plotted; every graph of anything humans use up or throw out is the same shape on the same timescale.
The only way we are going to become able not to fuck up our own habitat is to get our numbers down enough to make room for all the other species we've been displacing and choose to waste only such kinds of stuff as things that are not us can treat as resources.
In theory, the distinguishing feature of this species is an ability to understand its circumstances and plan its way to a future that doesn't involve the forced and sudden population reduction that's the usual fate of every species that overshoots its own habitat's carrying capacity. In theory, we're capable of figuring out how to achieve the required population reduction in ways that are actively pleasant - luxurious, even - instead of violent, impoverished and miserable.
In practice, there's a big difference between theory and practice. In practice, we allow ourselves to be led by people who simply refuse to acknowledge that we're all in the same bucket and yet really are capable of doing better than crabs.
Social media does not need to be structured as a giant open-cut attention mine; let a thousand Metafilters bloom! But I think it will remain structured that way for as long as more people continue to accept that structure than don't. And I think that there are quite a lot of very skilled behavioural engineers getting paid good money to maintain that acceptance. And I think that the people doing the paying are the worst kind of bucket crab.
posted by flabdablet at 11:40 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
I don't think it's only what we dump in the air. I think it's what we dump in everything.
Like every other species, we modify our habitat by discarding stuff we don't want into it, and as is true for every species, dumping our trash into our habitat faster than our habitat can reprocess it fucks our habitat up for us.
There are eight billion of us now, our habitat is the whole planet, and we're discarding stuff into it at a rate that's demonstrably been fucking vast swathes of it up badly for at least a couple hundred years; a rate, furthermore, that shows no real sign of decreasing. We're also using up literally countless literally irreplaceable planetary resources because doing so is the only way we can keep on feeding and housing ourselves in anything like these numbers. It's not only our CO2 emissions that look like a hockey stick when plotted; every graph of anything humans use up or throw out is the same shape on the same timescale.
The only way we are going to become able not to fuck up our own habitat is to get our numbers down enough to make room for all the other species we've been displacing and choose to waste only such kinds of stuff as things that are not us can treat as resources.
In theory, the distinguishing feature of this species is an ability to understand its circumstances and plan its way to a future that doesn't involve the forced and sudden population reduction that's the usual fate of every species that overshoots its own habitat's carrying capacity. In theory, we're capable of figuring out how to achieve the required population reduction in ways that are actively pleasant - luxurious, even - instead of violent, impoverished and miserable.
In practice, there's a big difference between theory and practice. In practice, we allow ourselves to be led by people who simply refuse to acknowledge that we're all in the same bucket and yet really are capable of doing better than crabs.
Social media does not need to be structured as a giant open-cut attention mine; let a thousand Metafilters bloom! But I think it will remain structured that way for as long as more people continue to accept that structure than don't. And I think that there are quite a lot of very skilled behavioural engineers getting paid good money to maintain that acceptance. And I think that the people doing the paying are the worst kind of bucket crab.
posted by flabdablet at 11:40 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
It’s much more convenient to blame social media for the perceived problems with ‘the kids’, in the same way that dungeons and dragons was an easy scapegoat in the 1980s. Making actual change to let children feel better about the world is way harder.
posted by The River Ivel at 11:47 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 11:47 AM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
It occurred to me the other day that once we get our solar photovoltaic act together and stop basing the whole of civilization on Carboniferous detritus, humanity will emerge from its larval stage as a global fungal infection and become the first animal species on Earth to have achieved photosynthesis in its own right - and by a genuinely novel method at that.
I do quite like us sometimes.
posted by flabdablet at 12:01 PM on April 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
I do quite like us sometimes.
posted by flabdablet at 12:01 PM on April 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
All the other teens I knew back in high school, including myself, managed to have a certain degree of mental health crisis with no assistance from the internet.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:40 PM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:40 PM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
Making actual change to let children feel better about the world is way harder.
Instead, why don’t we acknowledge that both actual change on major world problems is needed, and that smartphones + social media have real associated ills? That way we can productively discuss both and do nothing about either!
posted by cupcakeninja at 12:42 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Instead, why don’t we acknowledge that both actual change on major world problems is needed, and that smartphones + social media have real associated ills? That way we can productively discuss both and do nothing about either!
posted by cupcakeninja at 12:42 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
That way we can productively discuss both and do nothing about either!
Roger Hallam would like a word (Novara Media, YouTube, 1h14m11s)
posted by flabdablet at 1:00 PM on April 1, 2023
Roger Hallam would like a word (Novara Media, YouTube, 1h14m11s)
posted by flabdablet at 1:00 PM on April 1, 2023
What Science Says About Quitting Social Media (Sabine Hossenfelder, YouTube, 16m15s)
posted by flabdablet at 1:04 PM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 1:04 PM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
This effect is extremely hard to measure. As a result, the studies that attempt to measure it are not very conclusive. So, you shouldn't reason as follows: "Since studies conclusively show that social media harms mental health, I am justified in believing that social media harms mental health."
Note however that this also provides very little evidence for the opposing claim, that social media doesn't harm mental health. Unfortunately, the world is full of phenomena that are difficult to measure with social-science methods. You can only ever reason from "no social science evidence" to "no phenomenon" if you have some independent reason for thinking that the phenomenon would be easy to measure with social-science methods. This is very rarely the case.
posted by grobstein at 1:13 PM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
Note however that this also provides very little evidence for the opposing claim, that social media doesn't harm mental health. Unfortunately, the world is full of phenomena that are difficult to measure with social-science methods. You can only ever reason from "no social science evidence" to "no phenomenon" if you have some independent reason for thinking that the phenomenon would be easy to measure with social-science methods. This is very rarely the case.
posted by grobstein at 1:13 PM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's pinball machines that are causing the wave of violence in our youth. It's comic books!
Nah. People were breathing in lead.
We have a history of blaming peoples' entertainment choices for behavioral changes caused by environmental factors.
posted by MrVisible at 2:34 PM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
Nah. People were breathing in lead.
We have a history of blaming peoples' entertainment choices for behavioral changes caused by environmental factors.
posted by MrVisible at 2:34 PM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
Have teen daughter. It is not phones, and it is not social media. It's climate change and MAGA that are driving them all mad.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 2:38 PM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 2:38 PM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
METAFILTER: humanity will emerge from its larval stage as a global fungal infection and become the first animal species on Earth to have achieved photosynthesis in its own right
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
On the one hand, I'm very glad I didn't have to deal with cyberbullying and social media pressures and a general lack of privacy on top of the regular everyday bullying and bullshit I dealt with as a kid in the 80s.
On the other, the internet is where I go to find like-minded and/or supportive communities that I wasn't finding at random without it, and a lot of information that helped me understand myself. Not to mention lots of great recommendations for books and way more access to music than I'd had at the time.
So, I don't know whether I'm glad to have grown up when I did or not...
posted by Foosnark at 4:43 PM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
On the other, the internet is where I go to find like-minded and/or supportive communities that I wasn't finding at random without it, and a lot of information that helped me understand myself. Not to mention lots of great recommendations for books and way more access to music than I'd had at the time.
So, I don't know whether I'm glad to have grown up when I did or not...
posted by Foosnark at 4:43 PM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
I miss the pre-social-media Internet. You could find "your people" without finding ALL THE PEOPLE, good and bad.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:00 PM on April 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:00 PM on April 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
Like infinite doom scroll on angry FB is a lot different than discussion on Metafilter (which many people don't even consider 'social media', even as they sit here and socialize with us on this site!).
Mefi isn't social media though - the term isn't descriptive like that, you can't understand it by looking at the words individually. If that were the case, telephones would've been social media, BBSes would've, etc. It was a term invented to refer to a new-fangled web 2.0 thing, a word to collectively describe Facebook, MySpace, I guess LinkedIn and Bebo. It isn't just any media that lets you socialise (though I know the term on the surface looks like it should mean that) it is specifically media that captures social networks through system of 'friends' or mutual follows.
Somehow Twitter got included in that wave, mostly because of timing I guess, because it actually shares very few features with other social media, and looks a lot more like a traditional blogging platform: follows aren't mutual and aren't expected to represent your social network in the way that your MySpace, Facebook, or even LinkedIn does.
But yeah, mefi is not social media unless you redefine 'social media' to 'all media that we can communicate/socialise through' which really is just media.
posted by Dysk at 9:01 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Mefi isn't social media though - the term isn't descriptive like that, you can't understand it by looking at the words individually. If that were the case, telephones would've been social media, BBSes would've, etc. It was a term invented to refer to a new-fangled web 2.0 thing, a word to collectively describe Facebook, MySpace, I guess LinkedIn and Bebo. It isn't just any media that lets you socialise (though I know the term on the surface looks like it should mean that) it is specifically media that captures social networks through system of 'friends' or mutual follows.
Somehow Twitter got included in that wave, mostly because of timing I guess, because it actually shares very few features with other social media, and looks a lot more like a traditional blogging platform: follows aren't mutual and aren't expected to represent your social network in the way that your MySpace, Facebook, or even LinkedIn does.
But yeah, mefi is not social media unless you redefine 'social media' to 'all media that we can communicate/socialise through' which really is just media.
posted by Dysk at 9:01 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think Metafilter counts as social media because its contacts facility is public. Any Mefi member has access to all the information required to construct the entire membership's in-house social graph.
That the service operator does not abuse this facility to its own commercial advantage at the expense of its users is exactly why Mefi is the only social media site I'm willing to engage with.
posted by flabdablet at 10:24 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
That the service operator does not abuse this facility to its own commercial advantage at the expense of its users is exactly why Mefi is the only social media site I'm willing to engage with.
posted by flabdablet at 10:24 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Nothing I do on metafilter has any bearing on my social networks. This is no different to any other forum - we communicate with whatever users are also in a particular thread. You can't look at my mefi account and work out who my friends are, so my family are, who my colleagues are. Nobody can - not logged in users, not the mods, not the site owners.
Go look at my Facebook profile though, for example, and you can work out all of those things.
posted by Dysk at 2:03 AM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Go look at my Facebook profile though, for example, and you can work out all of those things.
posted by Dysk at 2:03 AM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
As an immunocompromised person still living in the middle of COVID hell, I promise that social media is better for my mental health than just not interacting with other human beings at all, and if one more temporarily able bodied person tells me how much better their life is since they quit social media and started interacting with people in person again...
posted by hydropsyche at 4:27 AM on April 2, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 4:27 AM on April 2, 2023 [10 favorites]
I think there is a pretty strong argument to be made that it is, in fact, the World which is causing mental health problems, and phones represent one of the few forms of escapism/connection that remain readily available to young people.
The “World” has always caused mental health problems. In the past, though, it has always been a rather localized interaction with the world. The internet, and especially social media, brings all the world to you and amplifies things in a way you weren’t exposed to pre-internet.
Having a portable, constantly-connected, device with you 24/7 amplifies the amplification. Powers purposefully warping the amplified messaging only furthers the negative effect of “the world” on mental health.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:43 AM on April 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
The “World” has always caused mental health problems. In the past, though, it has always been a rather localized interaction with the world. The internet, and especially social media, brings all the world to you and amplifies things in a way you weren’t exposed to pre-internet.
Having a portable, constantly-connected, device with you 24/7 amplifies the amplification. Powers purposefully warping the amplified messaging only furthers the negative effect of “the world” on mental health.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:43 AM on April 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
I promise that social media is better for my mental health than just not interacting with other human beings at all,
I resemble this comment. In fact, it was a situation of isolation (caregiving in a remote location) that got me to finally engage with any social media at all (beyond Metafilter). This was about ten years ago, long before covid. I already had a Facebook account but I hardly ever used it. But suddenly there I was miles away from everyone but maybe a half dozen people, and let's just say, it really helped to have a zone I could visit every now and then just to connect with a few people on a social level.
I took to calling it my water cooler -- that place I could hang out for a few minutes every now and then and share notes about this-that, other not particularly important things. And, of course, it wasn't ALL my friends, just a few who happened to have their own reasons for being active on the network in question. Also a few strangers who, I guess I now think of friends even though I've still yet to actually ever meet them in real life.
It definitely helped keep me sane and in the game.
posted by philip-random at 7:55 AM on April 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
I resemble this comment. In fact, it was a situation of isolation (caregiving in a remote location) that got me to finally engage with any social media at all (beyond Metafilter). This was about ten years ago, long before covid. I already had a Facebook account but I hardly ever used it. But suddenly there I was miles away from everyone but maybe a half dozen people, and let's just say, it really helped to have a zone I could visit every now and then just to connect with a few people on a social level.
I took to calling it my water cooler -- that place I could hang out for a few minutes every now and then and share notes about this-that, other not particularly important things. And, of course, it wasn't ALL my friends, just a few who happened to have their own reasons for being active on the network in question. Also a few strangers who, I guess I now think of friends even though I've still yet to actually ever meet them in real life.
It definitely helped keep me sane and in the game.
posted by philip-random at 7:55 AM on April 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
You can't look at my mefi account and work out who my friends are, so my family are, who my colleagues are.
Not unless (a) you have friends, family and colleagues who are also Metafilter members and (b) you've chosen to disclose those relationships in your Mefi contacts list. Which is as it should be.
posted by flabdablet at 1:23 PM on April 2, 2023
Not unless (a) you have friends, family and colleagues who are also Metafilter members and (b) you've chosen to disclose those relationships in your Mefi contacts list. Which is as it should be.
posted by flabdablet at 1:23 PM on April 2, 2023
Well yeah, and I could list those things on a piece of paper but that doesn't make a notepad social media.
posted by Dysk at 1:49 PM on April 2, 2023
posted by Dysk at 1:49 PM on April 2, 2023
I suspect that if Twitter and Instagram, say, are bad for mental health in a way that Metafilter isn't, it's because the big social media companies are enormously invested in capturing as much of users' time and attention as possible, and they know the easy buttons to push in order to get time and attention - outrage, anger, the need for status, the need for belonging. And probably - like with alcohol or gambling or anything that provides an easy hit of good feelings - there are lots of people who can be responsible with their use without being compulsive about it, and there are some people who are more vulnerable.
And Metafilter has captured a lot of my time and attention over the years, but I trust it more than I trust those companies that NEED you to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll so they get their advertising dollars.
posted by Jeanne at 2:16 PM on April 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
And Metafilter has captured a lot of my time and attention over the years, but I trust it more than I trust those companies that NEED you to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll so they get their advertising dollars.
posted by Jeanne at 2:16 PM on April 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
How many teens post on Metafilter?
posted by Ideefixe at 3:45 PM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 3:45 PM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
little to support the claim
Ugh that's not how science works. Unless there is _something_ to prove a counterclaim, basically nothing is proven, and the risk is the same as if no studies had been done.
Which means the best you can do is trust your own common sense. (Which should be ignored IF there is science to the contrary, but not otherwise).
posted by amtho at 6:26 PM on April 2, 2023
Ugh that's not how science works. Unless there is _something_ to prove a counterclaim, basically nothing is proven, and the risk is the same as if no studies had been done.
Which means the best you can do is trust your own common sense. (Which should be ignored IF there is science to the contrary, but not otherwise).
posted by amtho at 6:26 PM on April 2, 2023
I will shout it from the mountain tops as long as I need to: THESE POST-COVID KIDS ARE WISE, FLEXIBLE, UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF RELATIONSHIPS, APPRECIATE SCHOOL, AND KNOW HOW TO SPOT KINDNESS & AUTHENTICITY. They might be “behind” on all the testable skills, but they are miles ahead in living.
They are also anxious, and sad, because they see the world as it really is, instead of through the veil of childhood naivety that many of us enjoyed.
The biggest tech issue I see (and I see a lot of tweens) is DISCONNECTION and DISREGULATION. Adults - put your phone down and look into a kid’s eyes … show them you are really listening. Help them redevelop eating, sleeping, reading, interacting, re-engagement with life’s activities.
They know social media isn’t great. They just need help with the stuff every generation of kids need: this is how to connect, this is how to get your shtuff together to live life.
posted by beckybakeroo at 8:49 PM on April 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
They are also anxious, and sad, because they see the world as it really is, instead of through the veil of childhood naivety that many of us enjoyed.
The biggest tech issue I see (and I see a lot of tweens) is DISCONNECTION and DISREGULATION. Adults - put your phone down and look into a kid’s eyes … show them you are really listening. Help them redevelop eating, sleeping, reading, interacting, re-engagement with life’s activities.
They know social media isn’t great. They just need help with the stuff every generation of kids need: this is how to connect, this is how to get your shtuff together to live life.
posted by beckybakeroo at 8:49 PM on April 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
I could list those things on a piece of paper
But that wouldn't be the same thing as making them visible to the membership of your social network site, which is the effect of adding them to your Mefi contacts list, and of other Mefi members adding you to theirs.
posted by flabdablet at 11:29 PM on April 2, 2023
But that wouldn't be the same thing as making them visible to the membership of your social network site, which is the effect of adding them to your Mefi contacts list, and of other Mefi members adding you to theirs.
posted by flabdablet at 11:29 PM on April 2, 2023
Okay, I could do it on a blog. I could post the piece of paper to a pole outside.
Mefi isn't a space designed for you to port over your offline social life, and capture your real life relationships. Mefi is a space designed to interact with other mefites. That's it. Mefi doesn't have a "friends" system, it has one-way follows that don't require the approval of both parties. Anything with a free form text field lets you do what you describe but that doesn't make them all social media.
posted by Dysk at 11:46 PM on April 2, 2023
Mefi isn't a space designed for you to port over your offline social life, and capture your real life relationships. Mefi is a space designed to interact with other mefites. That's it. Mefi doesn't have a "friends" system, it has one-way follows that don't require the approval of both parties. Anything with a free form text field lets you do what you describe but that doesn't make them all social media.
posted by Dysk at 11:46 PM on April 2, 2023
Mefi isn't a space designed for you to port over your offline social life, and capture your real life relationships. Mefi is a space designed to interact with other mefites.
I think the implication was supposed to be that connecting only with 'friends' meant that you would see (mostly) things that supported your views, but in fact some of your 'friends' are actually horrible people, and they are the ones who often post things that make you mad.
Facebook and real* social media that connects that info is not really able to use it, so the fact that's it's out there is true, but also ultimately, currently meaningless. But give it time I guess, someone will figure out how to monetize my public relationship status.
I don't think that Metafilter is really any different, because the things that people post drive our emotions, no matter how much it considers itself to be a 'hive', with a certain amount of like-mindedness and common goals. People still get angry (or happy!) at stuff people post. It likes to pretend it doesn't happen and wait for it to blow over.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on April 3, 2023
I think the implication was supposed to be that connecting only with 'friends' meant that you would see (mostly) things that supported your views, but in fact some of your 'friends' are actually horrible people, and they are the ones who often post things that make you mad.
Facebook and real* social media that connects that info is not really able to use it, so the fact that's it's out there is true, but also ultimately, currently meaningless. But give it time I guess, someone will figure out how to monetize my public relationship status.
I don't think that Metafilter is really any different, because the things that people post drive our emotions, no matter how much it considers itself to be a 'hive', with a certain amount of like-mindedness and common goals. People still get angry (or happy!) at stuff people post. It likes to pretend it doesn't happen and wait for it to blow over.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on April 3, 2023
Lots of anti science sentiment in here, which I think would quickly turn around if the studies said something different.
It's kind of like whenever MSG sensitivity comes up here, or the absolutely established fact that sugar does not cause hyperactivity shows up on parenting groups. There are some things that people really need to be true.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:42 AM on April 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's kind of like whenever MSG sensitivity comes up here, or the absolutely established fact that sugar does not cause hyperactivity shows up on parenting groups. There are some things that people really need to be true.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:42 AM on April 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
little to support the claim
Ugh that's not how science works. Unless there is _something_ to prove a counterclaim, basically nothing is proven, and the risk is the same as if no studies had been done.
But that is exactly what Stuart Ritchie is saying in the article, isn't it? I mean, the context is a bunch of people, including prominent psychologists such as Jonathan Haidt, saying that it is now a scientifically-established fact that social media causes mental health problems, especially in teenage women. Ritchie is pushing back on such claims, arguing that there really isn't much (or maybe any) evidence to support the claim that social media causes mental health problems or that it's especially bad for teenage women. Ritchie is not making any positive claim about the substance. That is, he's not denying that social media causes mental health problems. And he's not saying that social media is good for mental health or for anything else. He is evaluating the evidence that allegedly supports claims made by Haidt and others to the effect that it's scientifically clear that social media causes mental health problems or that it's scientifically established or that the evidence is overwhelming for the claim ... etc.
This is from the end of the introduction to the article, with emphasis added:
I think I agree with the idea that when there isn't strong evidence, we are each rationally permitted to think what we want. (I could add detail here about effect sizes, reasoning from [absence of evidence of an effect] to [absence of an effect], the logic of rational permissivism, and how all of that relates to policy-making, but I'm not sure adding nuance would be helpful.) I'll just shorten to this: If you want to think that social media has harmful effects, that's fine with me within limits. Where I object is when people think their opinion is well supported by scientific research when it's not.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 8:24 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ugh that's not how science works. Unless there is _something_ to prove a counterclaim, basically nothing is proven, and the risk is the same as if no studies had been done.
But that is exactly what Stuart Ritchie is saying in the article, isn't it? I mean, the context is a bunch of people, including prominent psychologists such as Jonathan Haidt, saying that it is now a scientifically-established fact that social media causes mental health problems, especially in teenage women. Ritchie is pushing back on such claims, arguing that there really isn't much (or maybe any) evidence to support the claim that social media causes mental health problems or that it's especially bad for teenage women. Ritchie is not making any positive claim about the substance. That is, he's not denying that social media causes mental health problems. And he's not saying that social media is good for mental health or for anything else. He is evaluating the evidence that allegedly supports claims made by Haidt and others to the effect that it's scientifically clear that social media causes mental health problems or that it's scientifically established or that the evidence is overwhelming for the claim ... etc.
This is from the end of the introduction to the article, with emphasis added:
The message of the new articles is broadly the same: a few years ago, it would’ve been acceptable to remain agnostic about the effects of smartphones and social media on young people’s mental health. But now the evidence is in – and to quote Burn-Murdoch – it makes an “overwhelming” case that they’re having a “catastrophic” effect.So, again, Stuart Ritchie is not saying that there is no bad effect of social media, and he isn't saying that social media is good for people. He's resisting a positive claim made by others and defending the claim that it's okay to suspend judgment.
I don’t agree. Having read all the relevant studies in this area, I think a lot of the evidence is shaky and unclear – and it’s okay to still be undecided.
I think I agree with the idea that when there isn't strong evidence, we are each rationally permitted to think what we want. (I could add detail here about effect sizes, reasoning from [absence of evidence of an effect] to [absence of an effect], the logic of rational permissivism, and how all of that relates to policy-making, but I'm not sure adding nuance would be helpful.) I'll just shorten to this: If you want to think that social media has harmful effects, that's fine with me within limits. Where I object is when people think their opinion is well supported by scientific research when it's not.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 8:24 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd like to provide a different perspective on this article as a member of Gen Z. There is enough evidence to conclude that social media is harmful to mental health. I don't currently have the brainpower to convincingly explain why, but I recommend reading what Jonathan Haidt (link 1, link 2) and Cal Newport have to say.
posted by wandering zinnia at 1:03 PM on April 4, 2023
posted by wandering zinnia at 1:03 PM on April 4, 2023
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posted by sibboleth at 7:36 AM on April 1, 2023 [15 favorites]