Fednow service has launched
July 21, 2023 11:17 AM Subscribe
It's about time! The US is very far behind when it comes to moving money around, even between banks. It's expensive and ridiculously slow and far, far worse than service in most of Europe, Asia, or even parts of Africa.
I hestitate to send people to the Orange Site but the Hacker News discussion on this news has some good insights in it from folks working in fintech.
posted by Nelson at 11:30 AM on July 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
I hestitate to send people to the Orange Site but the Hacker News discussion on this news has some good insights in it from folks working in fintech.
posted by Nelson at 11:30 AM on July 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
yeah I was going to say "welcome to Europe, circa 2012"
still, better late than never.
posted by chavenet at 11:42 AM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
still, better late than never.
posted by chavenet at 11:42 AM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Heywood Mogroot III, was your BIL ranting against it or in favour of it? That part is unclear to some of us.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:20 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 12:20 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is good news, really it is, and yet the first scam will be happening in three...two...one...there it is.
posted by praemunire at 12:27 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 12:27 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Bella Donna, I will wager every dollar that has ever passed through FedNow that it was against it.
posted by ropeladder at 1:16 PM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ropeladder at 1:16 PM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I will wager every dollar that has ever passed through FedNow that it was against it.
I don't have money to fritter away for internet points but I would lean towards for it, because so many far right platforms have been deplatformed by payment networks and the fed cannot legally do so under first amendment rights.
posted by pwnguin at 1:37 PM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't have money to fritter away for internet points but I would lean towards for it, because so many far right platforms have been deplatformed by payment networks and the fed cannot legally do so under first amendment rights.
posted by pwnguin at 1:37 PM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Nah, if they're QAnon they're against it because it's "the Feds expanding their control over your bank account as part of the Globalist New World Order." If they were capable of grasping the first amendment aspects as related to right wing deplatforming they wouldn't be QAnon.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:43 PM on July 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by soundguy99 at 1:43 PM on July 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah, they're convinced this is the on-ramp to "Central Bank Digital Currency", which will lead to outlawing cash, Canadian Trucker Rally unpersoning 2.0, e-dollars having expiration dates on them to encourage spending, replacing American beef with crickets & worms, etc.
Not to say there aren't a lot of issues with the current "Visa+Mastercard as arbiter of businesses, as deputized via FOSTA/SESTA" setup. But my issues with the topic and theirs aren't one where we'll come to an agreement any time soon.
posted by CrystalDave at 1:55 PM on July 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Not to say there aren't a lot of issues with the current "Visa+Mastercard as arbiter of businesses, as deputized via FOSTA/SESTA" setup. But my issues with the topic and theirs aren't one where we'll come to an agreement any time soon.
posted by CrystalDave at 1:55 PM on July 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
(He mentioned China’s Social Credit system as where this is all going)
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 2:38 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 2:38 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
They're absolutely 1000% against it.
One of the usual Q*berts on Twitter was declaring this the kickoff of the end for Western civilization, because it was the feds taking total control of all private banking and therefore deciding whom among us they should bankrupt on a whim.* "If you won't empty all of your bank accounts TODAY," one worried, "what other simple things won't you lift a finger to do to SAVE OUR COUNTRY?" (Her "solution" was to direct all money into some kind of prepaid credit card.) And, of course, as Heywood noted, once the feds have an iron grip over all savings and transactions, that's when social credit kicks in and every God-fearing Christian conservative will be targeted and persecuted by the WEF and the New World Order.
* No.
Whereas the crypto nuts were merely saying "it's bitcoin without all of the things that make bitcoin great," i.e. it wasn't something that they could personally use to scam actual money.
posted by delfin at 4:06 PM on July 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
One of the usual Q*berts on Twitter was declaring this the kickoff of the end for Western civilization, because it was the feds taking total control of all private banking and therefore deciding whom among us they should bankrupt on a whim.* "If you won't empty all of your bank accounts TODAY," one worried, "what other simple things won't you lift a finger to do to SAVE OUR COUNTRY?" (Her "solution" was to direct all money into some kind of prepaid credit card.) And, of course, as Heywood noted, once the feds have an iron grip over all savings and transactions, that's when social credit kicks in and every God-fearing Christian conservative will be targeted and persecuted by the WEF and the New World Order.
* No.
Whereas the crypto nuts were merely saying "it's bitcoin without all of the things that make bitcoin great," i.e. it wasn't something that they could personally use to scam actual money.
posted by delfin at 4:06 PM on July 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm going to throw this in here because I had no idea what FedNow was and thought it might be a charity that feeds people.
FedNow is an instant payment infrastructure for transferring money that promises to be a faster payment rail for financial institutions, offering immediate access to funds no matter the day or time. As you know, this is huge because banks aren’t traditionally open 24/7 or let you receive money and use it on the same day.posted by mmoncur at 8:37 PM on July 21, 2023 [19 favorites]
It’s also something that the U.S. has been considered “behind” on in light of the fact that other countries have been live with similar services for some time, including Brazil, India, the United Kingdom and the European Union.
Just had to deal with an international funds transfer, and it uses archaic protocols that worked over teletype machines. The current system was kinda like taking an email, copying it to FAX then taking the fax at the other end and copying it to email.
posted by sammyo at 10:30 PM on July 21, 2023
posted by sammyo at 10:30 PM on July 21, 2023
Other than costs of implementation, are there any reasons why banks wouldn't want to sign up for this? What happens to companies like Zelle which basically seems like a private version of this? When/if this takes off will it also be the end of electronic bill pay services or is this designed only for transfers between individuals? Will this impact the demand for services like Venmo and PayPal? Can I finally throw out my physical checkbook (literally only used to pay a single monthly office rent bill)?
posted by flamk at 9:27 AM on July 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by flamk at 9:27 AM on July 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
What happens to companies like Zelle which basically seems like a private version of this?
Ideally goes away like it probably needs to. In practice it probably just means Zelle uses FedNow behind the curtains and nothing changes, better or worse.
posted by pwnguin at 9:52 AM on July 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ideally goes away like it probably needs to. In practice it probably just means Zelle uses FedNow behind the curtains and nothing changes, better or worse.
posted by pwnguin at 9:52 AM on July 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Other than costs of implementation, are there any reasons why banks wouldn't want to sign up for this?
* Transmitting money faster might mean that fewer people accidentally overdraft their accounts
* Transmitting money faster might mean banks have less opportunity to briefly fuck around with your money before benificently granting you access to it
* Transmitting money faster might mean that evil individuals such as customers and other banks receive the bank's money faster or make annoying noises when they don't see the bank's money in their accounts
* It costs money and doesn't directly generate profit
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:54 AM on July 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
* Transmitting money faster might mean that fewer people accidentally overdraft their accounts
* Transmitting money faster might mean banks have less opportunity to briefly fuck around with your money before benificently granting you access to it
* Transmitting money faster might mean that evil individuals such as customers and other banks receive the bank's money faster or make annoying noises when they don't see the bank's money in their accounts
* It costs money and doesn't directly generate profit
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:54 AM on July 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
... is this designed only for transfers between individuals?
My read is that this is designed for transfers between banks, and they then may use the functionality to allow their customers to transfer money to others. TFA lists lots of personal-banking examples, but it seems to come down to a simple "accountholder1 at BankA can transfer money to accountholder2 at BankB" with the banks using Fednow and neither accountholder being aware of what "payment rail" the banks are using in the background.
posted by achrise at 10:04 AM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
My read is that this is designed for transfers between banks, and they then may use the functionality to allow their customers to transfer money to others. TFA lists lots of personal-banking examples, but it seems to come down to a simple "accountholder1 at BankA can transfer money to accountholder2 at BankB" with the banks using Fednow and neither accountholder being aware of what "payment rail" the banks are using in the background.
posted by achrise at 10:04 AM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
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posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:20 AM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]