Worst violence in Hungary since the fall of communism...
September 19, 2006 3:59 AM Subscribe
"We lied in the morning, and we lied in the evening,"... "Evidently, we lied throughout the last year-and-a-half, two years. You can't show me any significant government measure that we can be proud of, other than, in the end, we managed to drag the government back from the brink." 150 injured in rioting. brought about by the leak of a taped speech by Ferenc Gyurcsány wikipedia
Some analysts suggest the leak may be with the prime minister's permission as he posted a full transcript on his own web blog.
I'm no expert on Hungarian politics, but was this a case of pushing the self-destruct button? Really, if this was leaked by the PM on purpose how could he not guess what was going to happen?
posted by randomination at 4:14 AM on September 19, 2006
I'm no expert on Hungarian politics, but was this a case of pushing the self-destruct button? Really, if this was leaked by the PM on purpose how could he not guess what was going to happen?
posted by randomination at 4:14 AM on September 19, 2006
Was the leak in the afternoon then? Or is it also included in the morning or evening of lies?
posted by srboisvert at 4:20 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by srboisvert at 4:20 AM on September 19, 2006
If this happened in the US the Rovians would just spin it as the lies were to protect the country and that anyone who protested would be essentially committing treason.
posted by caddis at 4:21 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by caddis at 4:21 AM on September 19, 2006
So much for Hungary as the shinning example of Eastern European success. But surely they're not attempting to equate the current situation with that of 50 years ago!
I am almost certainly a by-product of their 1956 revolt, having been born to a single Hungarian mother at just the right time. Ma, wherever you are, though I never knew you, I haven't forgotten. (I was given up for adoption)
posted by Goofyy at 5:08 AM on September 19, 2006
I am almost certainly a by-product of their 1956 revolt, having been born to a single Hungarian mother at just the right time. Ma, wherever you are, though I never knew you, I haven't forgotten. (I was given up for adoption)
posted by Goofyy at 5:08 AM on September 19, 2006
Bizarre, and remarkable. And then, after apparently leaking the transcript himself (perhaps the entire scene was manufactured - what does a prime minister gain by destroying his own party?) he refuses to resign.
It really does make a mockery of upright democracy when a country's leader refuses to go even after he fails in his utmost duty - at all costs, keep lying and never confess.
I couldn't bring myself to post this as it would have been the very lamest of 1-link newsfilters. Thanks, handee, for giving it a bit more effort.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 5:16 AM on September 19, 2006
It really does make a mockery of upright democracy when a country's leader refuses to go even after he fails in his utmost duty - at all costs, keep lying and never confess.
I couldn't bring myself to post this as it would have been the very lamest of 1-link newsfilters. Thanks, handee, for giving it a bit more effort.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 5:16 AM on September 19, 2006
"We lied in the morning, and we lied in the evening,"
...all over this land. We've lied about danger, we've lied about warning...
posted by eriko at 5:18 AM on September 19, 2006
...all over this land. We've lied about danger, we've lied about warning...
posted by eriko at 5:18 AM on September 19, 2006
Ah, sweet Hungary, where lies mean riots and likely resignations, we love you in Britain where lies mean nothing.
posted by imperium at 5:21 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by imperium at 5:21 AM on September 19, 2006
More English-language coverage (and editorial) at Pestiside.hu and Caboodle.hu.
posted by milquetoast at 5:26 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by milquetoast at 5:26 AM on September 19, 2006
Watching the story develop on the BBC, it's a bit hard to understand the controversy. Politicians telling lies? Are the Hungarians so hopelessly naïve to believe that any of them ever tell the truth?
posted by three blind mice at 6:11 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by three blind mice at 6:11 AM on September 19, 2006
Are the Hungarians so hopelessly naïve to believe that any of them ever tell the truth?
posted by three blind mice at 6:11 AM PST
Some are. Just like some people believe that GW Bush is doing a fine job.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:30 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by three blind mice at 6:11 AM PST
Some are. Just like some people believe that GW Bush is doing a fine job.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:30 AM on September 19, 2006
This comment (series of comments actually) by DoDo, a Hugarian member of the European Tribune weblog provides some context...
posted by talos at 6:34 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by talos at 6:34 AM on September 19, 2006
(fixed your post)
posted by mkultra at 6:53 AM on September 19, 2006
Is he saying that he lied himself or just that politcians in general are lying?
posted by delmoi at 7:15 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by delmoi at 7:15 AM on September 19, 2006
I think we (in the U.S.) should follow their lead. At least they have the involvement to riot. We're way overdue.
posted by craven_morhead at 7:29 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by craven_morhead at 7:29 AM on September 19, 2006
"perhaps the entire scene was manufactured"
talos' link provides an answer for that suggestion. Nice link.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 7:39 AM on September 19, 2006
talos' link provides an answer for that suggestion. Nice link.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 7:39 AM on September 19, 2006
Does this mean Stephen Colbert's not going to get his bridge now?
posted by aaronetc at 8:05 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by aaronetc at 8:05 AM on September 19, 2006
In other news, it appears Thailand is going batshit crazy as well...
posted by rzklkng at 9:48 AM on September 19, 2006
posted by rzklkng at 9:48 AM on September 19, 2006
A Hungarian friend who is momentarily abroad, but lives in Budapest, phoned me and gave me a few more details.
What I hadn't read in the news was the full timeline: the current right-wing opposition was in power, then a government crisis brought Gyurcsany to the prime minister's seat, but with the same Assembly. When this happened, elections were still a year and a half away. He was unable to bring about much change since (a) he didn't have a lot of support from the Assembly, (b) he was afraid they'd lose the elections. The recorded speech dates to shortly after the elections themselves.
One theory is that this is very far from being the self-destruct button: the right-wing opposition did lie when it was in power and kept on lying all the time (and Hungarians know that very well), and most people really dislike violence going on in the streets. It's also known that a relevant part of the "active" demonstrators (not the curious bystanders) was made out of football hooligans. The local government elections are now approaching, and it seems that there is a good chance of people confirming the preference for the current, left-wing majority. If that happened, the "scandal" would actually strengthen the government.
posted by pino.it at 11:42 AM on September 19, 2006
What I hadn't read in the news was the full timeline: the current right-wing opposition was in power, then a government crisis brought Gyurcsany to the prime minister's seat, but with the same Assembly. When this happened, elections were still a year and a half away. He was unable to bring about much change since (a) he didn't have a lot of support from the Assembly, (b) he was afraid they'd lose the elections. The recorded speech dates to shortly after the elections themselves.
One theory is that this is very far from being the self-destruct button: the right-wing opposition did lie when it was in power and kept on lying all the time (and Hungarians know that very well), and most people really dislike violence going on in the streets. It's also known that a relevant part of the "active" demonstrators (not the curious bystanders) was made out of football hooligans. The local government elections are now approaching, and it seems that there is a good chance of people confirming the preference for the current, left-wing majority. If that happened, the "scandal" would actually strengthen the government.
posted by pino.it at 11:42 AM on September 19, 2006
Man. Why the heck hasn't this happened in the U.S. yet?
she asks, somewhat rhetorically, though she still wonders.
posted by limeonaire at 4:04 PM on September 19, 2006
she asks, somewhat rhetorically, though she still wonders.
posted by limeonaire at 4:04 PM on September 19, 2006
I'll bet it's all Stephen Colbert's fault. He should never have pranked the bridge-naming.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:00 PM on September 19, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 6:00 PM on September 19, 2006
Ditto on the thanks to talos for that link; that's a fascinating analysis.
posted by mediareport at 8:54 PM on September 19, 2006
posted by mediareport at 8:54 PM on September 19, 2006
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Liar.
posted by three blind mice at 4:13 AM on September 19, 2006