I want to remove the stigma of male nudity being taboo and threatening.
August 4, 2016 6:35 PM Subscribe
"In 2012, photographer Abigail Ekue embarked on a mission to photograph the unclothed male body in a truthful, expressive and direct manner, a style Ekue saw was lacking in the larger cultural lexicon." (NSFW)
Speaking as a gay man, I do like the odd bit of beefcake, but I have long held that the sexiest part of a man is the collarbone. I mean dicks and pecs and butts, sure, but that little swoop always does it for me.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:06 PM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:06 PM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]
I know that the "standard wisdom" is that the Male Junk is unappealing, but that's actually not true.
Honestly, I think this has a lot to do with homophobia and the male (heterosexual) gaze.
No one can find dicks attractive! In fact, straight women don't even really like dicks. Women aren't very visual, they just put up with dicks because the other stuff is nice. It's women who are pretty to look at; male sexuality is about being the actor, the subject doing the seeing--not the object who is being seen.
(This is the most extreme form of the narrative that's out there, of course. Many shades exist.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:12 PM on August 4, 2016 [32 favorites]
Honestly, I think this has a lot to do with homophobia and the male (heterosexual) gaze.
No one can find dicks attractive! In fact, straight women don't even really like dicks. Women aren't very visual, they just put up with dicks because the other stuff is nice. It's women who are pretty to look at; male sexuality is about being the actor, the subject doing the seeing--not the object who is being seen.
(This is the most extreme form of the narrative that's out there, of course. Many shades exist.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:12 PM on August 4, 2016 [32 favorites]
But also, I find it kind of weird that the article opens with the idea that men struggle for this kind of visual representation more than women do. Yeah, women's nude or nearly-nude bodies are everywhere, and yes, not as many men's--but these are very particular types of images!
In mainstream culture, there aren't images of women like this either. There are similar projects, like this one, but yeah -- it's not as though men have been denied something that women have had, here.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:18 PM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]
In mainstream culture, there aren't images of women like this either. There are similar projects, like this one, but yeah -- it's not as though men have been denied something that women have had, here.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:18 PM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]
Women so often live under the constant scrutiny of the male gaze, which reduces a woman’s complex being to a matter of desirability. Yet for the many men whose naked bodies are rendered invisible by mainstream culture, it becomes difficult to imagine the possibility that their bodies could be, in and of themselves, attractive.
That's exactly true. I know women have to endure the male gaze problem, but the flip side is that men are invisible, and expected to be invisible. It's why men's clothes are so boring compared to the endless variety of women's fashion. And the nude male body, when it is presented at all in non-pornographic culture, is almost always presented as a joke or an object of loathing or shame.
And there's no where to express these kinds of body image issues. Women at least have feminists pushing back against the male gaze problem. Men have "privilege" and therefore apparently can't feel the pain of having their bodies rejected and mocked and ignored.
So this is nice. Thank you for posting it.
posted by JDHarper at 7:21 PM on August 4, 2016 [25 favorites]
That's exactly true. I know women have to endure the male gaze problem, but the flip side is that men are invisible, and expected to be invisible. It's why men's clothes are so boring compared to the endless variety of women's fashion. And the nude male body, when it is presented at all in non-pornographic culture, is almost always presented as a joke or an object of loathing or shame.
And there's no where to express these kinds of body image issues. Women at least have feminists pushing back against the male gaze problem. Men have "privilege" and therefore apparently can't feel the pain of having their bodies rejected and mocked and ignored.
So this is nice. Thank you for posting it.
posted by JDHarper at 7:21 PM on August 4, 2016 [25 favorites]
Well, Page 3 (or Page 5) girls have been a standard staple of tabloids in many countries for a long time. They aren't usually full nudes, but they are a lot more "gazing on the female form" than they are about men.
While men get to go shirtless in a lot of cultures more often than women, the photographic gaze is much more often trained on women than men.
The part below the belt line... it's almost universally about the women.
posted by hippybear at 7:22 PM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
While men get to go shirtless in a lot of cultures more often than women, the photographic gaze is much more often trained on women than men.
The part below the belt line... it's almost universally about the women.
posted by hippybear at 7:22 PM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
I couldn't disagree with Elaine more, and I never understood the notion that penii look weird or ugly.
I've had something on the high-ish end of average number of sexual partners, and can attest that in each and every case, there was absolutely some part of the guy's physical appearance that drove me wild. They didn't all look the same by a long shot - fat, skinny, long hair, shaved heads, blond, black-haired, hairy chests, hairless chests, abs of steel or "the build of a Mexican wrestler" - invariably I loved looking at them.
Even the genitals. I honestly don't get why anyone would call them "ugly" they're a little goofy-looking, but no more so than the female genitals. Not that I find guy's dicks to be awe-inspiring works of beauty at the other extreme either - they're more endearing. And by GOD they're fun to play with.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:48 PM on August 4, 2016 [32 favorites]
I've had something on the high-ish end of average number of sexual partners, and can attest that in each and every case, there was absolutely some part of the guy's physical appearance that drove me wild. They didn't all look the same by a long shot - fat, skinny, long hair, shaved heads, blond, black-haired, hairy chests, hairless chests, abs of steel or "the build of a Mexican wrestler" - invariably I loved looking at them.
Even the genitals. I honestly don't get why anyone would call them "ugly" they're a little goofy-looking, but no more so than the female genitals. Not that I find guy's dicks to be awe-inspiring works of beauty at the other extreme either - they're more endearing. And by GOD they're fun to play with.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:48 PM on August 4, 2016 [32 favorites]
The amount of variation in that package is pretty amazing given all the evolution that could have made it more standardized.
So, shoddy QC on God's part, then.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:01 PM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, shoddy QC on God's part, then.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:01 PM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
I do tend to blame God for many of the problems with this world.
posted by hippybear at 8:06 PM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:06 PM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
So, shoddy QC on God's part, then
Unintelligent design.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:53 PM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Unintelligent design.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:53 PM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Women at least have feminists pushing back against the male gaze problem. Men have "privilege" and therefore apparently can't feel the pain of having their bodies rejected and mocked and ignored.
Men need feminism too.
posted by beerperson at 9:21 PM on August 4, 2016 [39 favorites]
Men need feminism too.
posted by beerperson at 9:21 PM on August 4, 2016 [39 favorites]
I've always thought the male form disgusting. But then I was raised to use the term "fetid hellward pointing mushroom", so that may have colored my view.
posted by vorpal bunny at 9:33 PM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by vorpal bunny at 9:33 PM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
I really wish more men could look in the mirror and see someone who could be desired. This is a lovely project.
posted by congen at 9:52 PM on August 4, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by congen at 9:52 PM on August 4, 2016 [13 favorites]
fetid hellward pointing mushroom
New band name?
.. too soon?
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:40 PM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
New band name?
.. too soon?
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:40 PM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
What really hit me looking at these pictures is how much they remind me of the various nonsexualized-female-nudes projects out there. People look so different when they aren't tensing and flexing and turning their favorite parts toward the camera. Plus, these projects feature a lot more people over 50, when a lot of people's figures are newly characterized by equal-opportunity droopy skin and mysterious new pockets of fat. But mostly, I think it's that these pictures make you think of all the bodily functions that are both non-sexualized and non-gender-differentiated, things as simple as getting comfortable in a chair.
This isn't the analogue to a Page 3 girl -- that would be something along the lines of a Calvin Klein ad without the boxers, wouldn't it? Men and women both get shown exactly what perfection is supposed to look like. The difference is that women are expected to present themselves to be looked at even if they don't exactly fit the ideal, whereas men aren't allowed to even imagine being looked at if they don't fit the ideal. Sucks for everybody.
posted by ostro at 10:49 PM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
This isn't the analogue to a Page 3 girl -- that would be something along the lines of a Calvin Klein ad without the boxers, wouldn't it? Men and women both get shown exactly what perfection is supposed to look like. The difference is that women are expected to present themselves to be looked at even if they don't exactly fit the ideal, whereas men aren't allowed to even imagine being looked at if they don't fit the ideal. Sucks for everybody.
posted by ostro at 10:49 PM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well, Page 3 (or Page 5) girls have been a standard staple of tabloids in many countries for a long time.
But that was exactly my point. Women's bodies are used everywhere but it's not really representation. It's only young, attractive women posed for the male gaze.
That's why I posted a link to the nuproject page. That's where you can find images of women that are similar to these--not in pin-ups or advertising. Both men and women are in need of "honest" nudes.
That's why the framing is weird. I'm not against the project itself, I think it's valuable, but that introduction by the reporter did make me roll my eyes. It paints women as better off because we'll be treated like objects if we're pretty enough. When women have spent decades of words and worth fighting for more realistic, diverse, and unsexualized representation, it is pretty tone deaf.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:50 PM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]
But that was exactly my point. Women's bodies are used everywhere but it's not really representation. It's only young, attractive women posed for the male gaze.
That's why I posted a link to the nuproject page. That's where you can find images of women that are similar to these--not in pin-ups or advertising. Both men and women are in need of "honest" nudes.
That's why the framing is weird. I'm not against the project itself, I think it's valuable, but that introduction by the reporter did make me roll my eyes. It paints women as better off because we'll be treated like objects if we're pretty enough. When women have spent decades of words and worth fighting for more realistic, diverse, and unsexualized representation, it is pretty tone deaf.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:50 PM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]
I like this a lot, even though I admit it made me uncomfortable. I really struggle with the idea that my body might be attractive in spite of its many flaws, and it's really hard to make my own internal feelings about my body line up with this idea that I've been told about how men don't have body shame issues. It's a constant difficulty for me, and I don't think it's entirely because of the fact that I'm not cis. On the rare occasions I talk with guys about this kind of thing, they seem to feel the same way. It's guess it's just nice to see something that acknowledges this as a real thing.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 10:50 PM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 10:50 PM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
I think, as an artist, I've been sort of conditioned to view all forms as beautiful and interesting because of still life drawing. Something happens when I'm trying to accurately depict the human form that completely desexualizes it--instead, I get caught up in trying to capture sharpness or roundness or dryness or smoothness without even considering which part of the body I'm working on. There's something fascinating about the landscape of real human bodies--the way bones stretch the skin, the beauty of contrapposto, the lovely little wrinkles and folds built up around the joints and soft places. I wish more people could view other human bodies as a landscape to be appreciated rather than an object to be judged.
posted by xyzzy at 11:01 PM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 11:01 PM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
I like this. It's the whole imbalance of who has possessed the gaze for so long: why is it so radical or shocking to see a penis outside of a porn or sexual context?
That said, it sort of horrified me because I cringe when people take pictures of my FACE; a whole naked body shot of me would have me shivering in the corner. Which I guess is the point.
posted by chococat at 11:04 PM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
That said, it sort of horrified me because I cringe when people take pictures of my FACE; a whole naked body shot of me would have me shivering in the corner. Which I guess is the point.
posted by chococat at 11:04 PM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
And you know what, I don't blame individual people for saying it because God knows it's the message coming from all sides, but it AMAZES me that the whole "men's bodies are inherently ugly, ha ha" thing is still considered OK and normal in otherwise liberal circles. Being attracted to men's bodies is a phenomenon that exists. Sure, most straight men haven't personally felt it, and so it may feel ridiculously foreign to their experience, but it still exists. Consider, when you're tempted to get lulzy about it, that the joke only works if you automatically set aside straight women's and queer men's sexuality as somehow not counting.
posted by ostro at 11:13 PM on August 4, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by ostro at 11:13 PM on August 4, 2016 [34 favorites]
I can't quite dispel the fear that without the taboo the whole internet would become nothing more than a sea of dick pix.
posted by Segundus at 11:42 PM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 11:42 PM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
ostro: " it AMAZES me that the whole "men's bodies are inherently ugly, ha ha" thing is still considered OK and normal in otherwise liberal circles"
So very much this. It's totally gross.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 12:39 AM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
So very much this. It's totally gross.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 12:39 AM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've been thinking on this a lot recently, since I spent some time with some dude friends recently. They're husky gentlemen, with a lot of body shame. I am similarly built with less body shame. A lot of that is upbringing, is therapy, is culture (not that Oz avoids body shaming but it doesn't seem as rancid as the US) - but to me, at least some of it is representation.
Not in 'well you have Homer Simpson, and Random Male Protag With The Hot Wife, and John Candy' way, in the lack of art and pinups and historical stuff. Like, I have a fair few images of women my size, or larger, as postcards and as art on my walls. If I want to find a fat guy? Out of goddamn luck. I have a concrete set of places to go to talk about body image issues, and so much of that space is about feminine fatness, feminine bodies.
I want to be able to give essays to my male friends about body acceptance that are about male bodies, male acceptance, male spaces and experiences. I want to be able to find a cute bit of art with a fat guy in it that isn't making fun of him. I want them to come swimming with me, without the burning shame. I want them to be in photos with me, without hating their chin, their face, their body. And there is so little out there aimed at them.
It's something that people always think is weird about me, the way I think cocks are nice bits of the body, that I have no revulsion about a hairy back, or wobbly chin, or a belly that sags and curves. This is somehow considered a fault, that I should be more grateful that I married a man with none of those, that my aberration means I am not worthy of him, because I would accept 'worse'. It's just a body! Presumably attached to someone I like! How are they somehow an indicator of worth, and an acceptable target for mockery? Not that I escape the mockery (OMG HAIRY BELLY ON A LADY!?!?!) but that there's this idea that men can take the meanness and should, because that's all tied up in masculinity. So even admitting the hurt is emasculating, without the fact that most of the resources for dealing with it are feminised.
I think sometimes about making art with fat men in there, and hairy men. Then I remember I'm shitty at art, and hope more people do it for me.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:58 AM on August 5, 2016 [19 favorites]
Not in 'well you have Homer Simpson, and Random Male Protag With The Hot Wife, and John Candy' way, in the lack of art and pinups and historical stuff. Like, I have a fair few images of women my size, or larger, as postcards and as art on my walls. If I want to find a fat guy? Out of goddamn luck. I have a concrete set of places to go to talk about body image issues, and so much of that space is about feminine fatness, feminine bodies.
I want to be able to give essays to my male friends about body acceptance that are about male bodies, male acceptance, male spaces and experiences. I want to be able to find a cute bit of art with a fat guy in it that isn't making fun of him. I want them to come swimming with me, without the burning shame. I want them to be in photos with me, without hating their chin, their face, their body. And there is so little out there aimed at them.
It's something that people always think is weird about me, the way I think cocks are nice bits of the body, that I have no revulsion about a hairy back, or wobbly chin, or a belly that sags and curves. This is somehow considered a fault, that I should be more grateful that I married a man with none of those, that my aberration means I am not worthy of him, because I would accept 'worse'. It's just a body! Presumably attached to someone I like! How are they somehow an indicator of worth, and an acceptable target for mockery? Not that I escape the mockery (OMG HAIRY BELLY ON A LADY!?!?!) but that there's this idea that men can take the meanness and should, because that's all tied up in masculinity. So even admitting the hurt is emasculating, without the fact that most of the resources for dealing with it are feminised.
I think sometimes about making art with fat men in there, and hairy men. Then I remember I'm shitty at art, and hope more people do it for me.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:58 AM on August 5, 2016 [19 favorites]
These are wonderful! So much personality in every one. Thanks for posting.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 4:38 AM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 4:38 AM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's interesting to see pictures of non-sexualised male bodies. It seems feminine to me in a way that i'm not used to but that i'm starting to appreciate. It may also be the result of growing up and becoming more attracted to intimacy rather than 'enigma'. If media depictions of the human body are typically aimed at youth then they're not going to be intimate portraits (not that I want to stereotype youth but it looks like I have so I may as well close brackets).
Men's bodies are very attractive but I am still struggling to find the non-erect penis attractive. I know I have no 'right' to say that as such but it's the result of having watched porn since I was about 12 where everything is solid and nothing drips. Interestingly, I found this (non-nude) picture of Marlon Brando made me feel very 'sexually uncomfortable' when I first saw it all those years ago because of its vulnerability. It's a slow process with me...
I'm probably going to get called an inappropriate perv but I notice men's bodies the way men traditionally notice women's and I do look where I shouldn't more often than I should - on trains, in the street etc. This feels like a confessional. I love the male body - hairy thighs, forearms (hairy forearms - yum), baseball mitt hands... There I go making things sexual again. I shall stop now.
Thanks for the pics.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 5:20 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Men's bodies are very attractive but I am still struggling to find the non-erect penis attractive. I know I have no 'right' to say that as such but it's the result of having watched porn since I was about 12 where everything is solid and nothing drips. Interestingly, I found this (non-nude) picture of Marlon Brando made me feel very 'sexually uncomfortable' when I first saw it all those years ago because of its vulnerability. It's a slow process with me...
I'm probably going to get called an inappropriate perv but I notice men's bodies the way men traditionally notice women's and I do look where I shouldn't more often than I should - on trains, in the street etc. This feels like a confessional. I love the male body - hairy thighs, forearms (hairy forearms - yum), baseball mitt hands... There I go making things sexual again. I shall stop now.
Thanks for the pics.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 5:20 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's exactly true. I know women have to endure the male gaze problem, but the flip side is that men are invisible, and expected to be invisible.
Respectfully, I disagree.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 5:37 AM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
Respectfully, I disagree.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 5:37 AM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
I really think it's the framing of the HuffPo article that's the problem. Men and women both face body image issues and they are worth addressing, however men and women face different societal consequences for having bodies outside the ideal. Also, as mentioned above, these issues can vary for non-straight folks. My gay guy friends in SF are generally much more body conscious than my lesbian friends. (I have a couple of bi friends but the issue never came up in our conversations.)
That said, I'm all for anything that non-ideal faces and bodies out there. Representation matters. I'd love to see more normal looking actors in TV, movies, in fashion.
(Also, I was not impressed by the quality of the photographs.)
posted by smirkette at 5:52 AM on August 5, 2016
That said, I'm all for anything that non-ideal faces and bodies out there. Representation matters. I'd love to see more normal looking actors in TV, movies, in fashion.
(Also, I was not impressed by the quality of the photographs.)
posted by smirkette at 5:52 AM on August 5, 2016
The older I get, the less attractive the Tom-Of-Finland inflated hypersexualized male body becomes to me, because it's just so...removed from anything that seems like it might happen in the real world. We all seem to live on these idiotic media fantasies of dream houses and dream weddings and dream cars and dream vacations and dream lives and it just pushes us farther and farther away from our innate senses and colonizes our inner monologues when all we really need to be happy is to just be okay with being what we are.
I posted a selfie on Facebook the other day whilst I was on a therapeutic shopping venture (whenever I'm in a deep blue and seemingly unshakable funk, I buy myself a couple pairs of new skivvies with factory-tight elastic and breezy combinations of saturated colors and sassy accents, because nothing supports me in my temporary gloom like having my balls neatly isolated from the horror of August bat-winging with a healthy cotton-spandex blend with magenta piping), and some of my more distant acquaintances had to chime in with the "oh, you're buying those because of the hot dude on the package."
Yeah—I do buy "Evolve" bikini drawers, which are an downmarket label of 2(x)ist, the official underwear of gay™, because they fit me well and because I'm not bothered by the fact that they make me look like an aging German businessman on holiday in Ibiza, but the airbrushed washboard-abs guy on the package is a turn-off, not a turn-on. I have to wonder what the conventionally hot dude on the cover is supposed to appeal to—am I meant to imagine that that's how I'll look in my teal bikinis, or am I meant to get horny for that brand of underwear by association? Honestly, if you wanted to get me horny for underpants, you should put a schlumpy middle-aged dude on the box with the extra hot kind of male pattern baldness and the kind of moderately furry beer belly that feels great on your forehead...but I get that I'm probably an outlier in marketing terms. I'm hot for dudes who don't spend hours in the gym manufacturing an unnatural physique to be acceptable to a golden mean.
The nice thing about these pictures is that they're okay. They're just actual people slouching around, being okay, and feeling okay about who you are and where you fit in the world is both insanely sexy and a boost for morale in a culture where we're all trained to be afraid of the world to the point that we're afraid of ourselves as genuine beings in bodies.
Now I'm going to make my breakfast, put on a bossa nova record, and do the wild nude dances of ecstatic cartoon bears that I do every morning while I'm waiting for my souffle to go floof. It's just life, unvarnished, as it comes.
posted by sonascope at 5:54 AM on August 5, 2016 [19 favorites]
I posted a selfie on Facebook the other day whilst I was on a therapeutic shopping venture (whenever I'm in a deep blue and seemingly unshakable funk, I buy myself a couple pairs of new skivvies with factory-tight elastic and breezy combinations of saturated colors and sassy accents, because nothing supports me in my temporary gloom like having my balls neatly isolated from the horror of August bat-winging with a healthy cotton-spandex blend with magenta piping), and some of my more distant acquaintances had to chime in with the "oh, you're buying those because of the hot dude on the package."
Yeah—I do buy "Evolve" bikini drawers, which are an downmarket label of 2(x)ist, the official underwear of gay™, because they fit me well and because I'm not bothered by the fact that they make me look like an aging German businessman on holiday in Ibiza, but the airbrushed washboard-abs guy on the package is a turn-off, not a turn-on. I have to wonder what the conventionally hot dude on the cover is supposed to appeal to—am I meant to imagine that that's how I'll look in my teal bikinis, or am I meant to get horny for that brand of underwear by association? Honestly, if you wanted to get me horny for underpants, you should put a schlumpy middle-aged dude on the box with the extra hot kind of male pattern baldness and the kind of moderately furry beer belly that feels great on your forehead...but I get that I'm probably an outlier in marketing terms. I'm hot for dudes who don't spend hours in the gym manufacturing an unnatural physique to be acceptable to a golden mean.
The nice thing about these pictures is that they're okay. They're just actual people slouching around, being okay, and feeling okay about who you are and where you fit in the world is both insanely sexy and a boost for morale in a culture where we're all trained to be afraid of the world to the point that we're afraid of ourselves as genuine beings in bodies.
Now I'm going to make my breakfast, put on a bossa nova record, and do the wild nude dances of ecstatic cartoon bears that I do every morning while I'm waiting for my souffle to go floof. It's just life, unvarnished, as it comes.
posted by sonascope at 5:54 AM on August 5, 2016 [19 favorites]
I know that the "standard wisdom" is that the Male Junk is unappealing, but that's actually not true. The amount of variation in that package is pretty amazing given all the evolution that could have made it more standardized. And the entire total of a male body, from the hair growth patterns to the way the muscles and the fat land on the torso, and the way men carry their bodies (which seems to be much more widely varied from women from what I've seen) leads to there being an endless kaleidoscope of possibility that can provide an interested viewer with a lot of choice. Even the same man photographed twice in different poses can be a very different experience.
QF Motherfucking T.
Working as an artist's model hasn't given me a new lease on being comfortable in my own skin, but it's fascinating to see my body turned into art; to see it made into a landscape and a pattern of light and shadows and not a judgement. I work alone for the most part but I often see nudes of men in the studios I work in, and it's equally amazing to see their bodies transformed into these same patterns. And how gorgeous they are; how different from my pretty hyper-feminine body. I pretty rarely feel sexual attraction, so it's an aesthetic thing with me, but these differences are amazing, and I love them.
Not sure where to go with this, but...I'm bothered by the whole 'male genitals are hideous! or hilarious!' thing. Because they're not -- they're just there. They're a pattern of light and shadow and skin. They add an interesting element. They're as good or bad as the person inhabiting that body, you know?
posted by kalimac at 6:33 AM on August 5, 2016 [5 favorites]
QF Motherfucking T.
Working as an artist's model hasn't given me a new lease on being comfortable in my own skin, but it's fascinating to see my body turned into art; to see it made into a landscape and a pattern of light and shadows and not a judgement. I work alone for the most part but I often see nudes of men in the studios I work in, and it's equally amazing to see their bodies transformed into these same patterns. And how gorgeous they are; how different from my pretty hyper-feminine body. I pretty rarely feel sexual attraction, so it's an aesthetic thing with me, but these differences are amazing, and I love them.
Not sure where to go with this, but...I'm bothered by the whole 'male genitals are hideous! or hilarious!' thing. Because they're not -- they're just there. They're a pattern of light and shadow and skin. They add an interesting element. They're as good or bad as the person inhabiting that body, you know?
posted by kalimac at 6:33 AM on August 5, 2016 [5 favorites]
griphus, thank you very much for the link because I had hoped it'd spark a good discussion, or at least a comprehensive one, on MeFi. It did not disappoint.
I don't understand disdain for the penis, visually or otherwise. In fact, as absurd as this sounds, I find the term "junk" quite offensive, as it implies an object of no use and utter refuse. I love women's bodies for their version of shapes and curves and angels yet love men's bodies for their own different version of shapes and curves and angles. Feel free to objectify the male form as much as one does the female form. I'd sign up for that minority view.
As for Elaine, she can't dance, which means she mis-uses her body as a "work of art".
Side note (/derail?): How did society make a man's bulge in his jeans or shorts something of disgust and impropriety? It seems as though the more you can tuck, mash, and minimize anything visual "down there", the more appropriate a guy seems?
Again, great article.
posted by Conway at 6:44 AM on August 5, 2016
I don't understand disdain for the penis, visually or otherwise. In fact, as absurd as this sounds, I find the term "junk" quite offensive, as it implies an object of no use and utter refuse. I love women's bodies for their version of shapes and curves and angels yet love men's bodies for their own different version of shapes and curves and angles. Feel free to objectify the male form as much as one does the female form. I'd sign up for that minority view.
As for Elaine, she can't dance, which means she mis-uses her body as a "work of art".
Side note (/derail?): How did society make a man's bulge in his jeans or shorts something of disgust and impropriety? It seems as though the more you can tuck, mash, and minimize anything visual "down there", the more appropriate a guy seems?
Again, great article.
posted by Conway at 6:44 AM on August 5, 2016
smirkette: "Also, I was not impressed by the quality of the photographs"
Totally get that, but I kind of liked it? They were awkward and badly framed photos, and I kind of think that was on topic -- the weirdly inappropriate structure to the photos, the amateurish look to a lot of them, it sort of captured that sense that it's not considered "proper" to view AMAB bodies this way? I kind of liked that actually.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 6:53 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Totally get that, but I kind of liked it? They were awkward and badly framed photos, and I kind of think that was on topic -- the weirdly inappropriate structure to the photos, the amateurish look to a lot of them, it sort of captured that sense that it's not considered "proper" to view AMAB bodies this way? I kind of liked that actually.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 6:53 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
The older I get, the less attractive the Tom-Of-Finland inflated hypersexualized male body becomes to me, because it's just so...removed from anything that seems like it might happen in the real world.
Cis het female here who never really dug that kind of super-muscular body type on men anyway. I know that this sounds hypocritical in light of my all-embracing comments above; but I'm talking more like the super-developed, probably-uses-steroids, Arnold-Schwarzenegger-as-Mr.-Universe level muscular. It always just seemed to me like if you poked 'em with a pin they'd pop like balloons.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:54 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Cis het female here who never really dug that kind of super-muscular body type on men anyway. I know that this sounds hypocritical in light of my all-embracing comments above; but I'm talking more like the super-developed, probably-uses-steroids, Arnold-Schwarzenegger-as-Mr.-Universe level muscular. It always just seemed to me like if you poked 'em with a pin they'd pop like balloons.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:54 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Side note (/derail?): How did society make a man's bulge in his jeans or shorts something of disgust and impropriety? It seems as though the more you can tuck, mash, and minimize anything visual "down there", the more appropriate a guy seems?
That's an interesting thing. Legend has it that the Prince Albert piercing originated to help minimize the male package. So this is a cultural meme that has been around for a long time. However, there's the opposite, especially in rock-and-roll (think Robert Plant in the movie The Song Remains The Same) or in 70s and 80s gay cruising culture, when men would take sandpaper to their Levis to create an artificial distressed fabric wear mark along the line where their cock would hang down their pants leg.
The idea of a prominent penis appearing underneath one's clothes is seen as sexually aggressive, and that aggression is either welcome or not, depending on the social setting in which it is existing. The same goes for chest hair. At times, like in the 70s, it was common for men to leave their shirt unbuttoned rather far down to expose their "disco hair". These days, it seems that men will wear an undershirt under their polos or whatever on even the hottest days in order to keep anyone from seeing anything possibly poofing out from between even the mostly-buttoned up shirts.
Men are driven to adjust their public appearance just as women are. It's not as discussed or featured in magazines as the pressure women are under in our patriarchal culture, but it's definitely there. Minimizing the appearance of one's package inside the pants and wearing undershirts, or how one shaves (or doesn't shave) one's face (or head)... The pressures are certainly there.
posted by hippybear at 7:03 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's an interesting thing. Legend has it that the Prince Albert piercing originated to help minimize the male package. So this is a cultural meme that has been around for a long time. However, there's the opposite, especially in rock-and-roll (think Robert Plant in the movie The Song Remains The Same) or in 70s and 80s gay cruising culture, when men would take sandpaper to their Levis to create an artificial distressed fabric wear mark along the line where their cock would hang down their pants leg.
The idea of a prominent penis appearing underneath one's clothes is seen as sexually aggressive, and that aggression is either welcome or not, depending on the social setting in which it is existing. The same goes for chest hair. At times, like in the 70s, it was common for men to leave their shirt unbuttoned rather far down to expose their "disco hair". These days, it seems that men will wear an undershirt under their polos or whatever on even the hottest days in order to keep anyone from seeing anything possibly poofing out from between even the mostly-buttoned up shirts.
Men are driven to adjust their public appearance just as women are. It's not as discussed or featured in magazines as the pressure women are under in our patriarchal culture, but it's definitely there. Minimizing the appearance of one's package inside the pants and wearing undershirts, or how one shaves (or doesn't shave) one's face (or head)... The pressures are certainly there.
posted by hippybear at 7:03 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
At times, like in the 70s, it was common for men to leave their shirt unbuttoned rather far down to expose their "disco hair"
cool I'm keeping disco alive.
posted by griphus at 7:19 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
cool I'm keeping disco alive.
posted by griphus at 7:19 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
think Robert Plant in the movie The Song Remains The Same
This was a serious sexual awakening for me.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 7:24 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
This was a serious sexual awakening for me.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 7:24 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
the existence of stars below the horizon: "Totally get that, but I kind of liked it? They were awkward and badly framed photos, and I kind of think that was on topic -- the weirdly inappropriate structure to the photos, the amateurish look to a lot of them, it sort of captured that sense that it's not considered "proper" to view AMAB bodies this way?"
That's an interesting take. (Genuinely, not sarcastically!) Although I feel like if the intent of the project is to celebrate the wide range of bodies of everyday men, they deserve the respect of thoughtful use of focus, composition, color, exposure, etc. I really liked the approach Leonard Nimoy took in his series of large women studies and think large or average-sized men deserve the same attention to detail and craft.
Also like kalimac's point about figure drawing/painting and live models re: body image. I really did gain an appreciation for all shapes, sizes, and ages. The variety and uniqueness of each person truly is beautiful.
posted by smirkette at 7:45 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's an interesting take. (Genuinely, not sarcastically!) Although I feel like if the intent of the project is to celebrate the wide range of bodies of everyday men, they deserve the respect of thoughtful use of focus, composition, color, exposure, etc. I really liked the approach Leonard Nimoy took in his series of large women studies and think large or average-sized men deserve the same attention to detail and craft.
Also like kalimac's point about figure drawing/painting and live models re: body image. I really did gain an appreciation for all shapes, sizes, and ages. The variety and uniqueness of each person truly is beautiful.
posted by smirkette at 7:45 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
The variety and uniqueness of each person truly is beautiful.
QFMFT
posted by hippybear at 7:46 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
QFMFT
posted by hippybear at 7:46 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm at work right now, hence not looking at this link until another time. But I do find the subject/discussion very interesting - especially in light of a) much of the interent currently losing its collective mind over Orlando Bloom getting photographed naked on a beach and b) the discussion in a recent thread, about womens' gymnast leotards and how revealing they are compared to men who get to wear loose shorts to hide the crotch area.
posted by dnash at 7:56 AM on August 5, 2016
posted by dnash at 7:56 AM on August 5, 2016
There's a saying I've heard "No one can offend you without your consent". The same goes for shame. But for many of us, this understanding is just not there - in large part because the same is built into our culture, and it can be had to find ways to escape it.
There is at least some discussion of i for women, but I think it is just as true for men, but it is less overt and all the more insidious for that. Not just bellies and muscles (or the lack thereof), but look around at all the combovers, look at men in porn (gay and straight) and see how many small cocks you see. Men certainly notice this and even when nothing is said in words directly to the man who is considered under par, I've certainly heard enough second hand comments to know that the same comments have been made about me, and I've certainly felt enough of that shame, though I'm getting better.
As a gay man I find penii of all shapes and sizes fascinating, even when I don't want to play with them, and i particularly like the look of a soft one (and the feel as well).
In the same vein, note how many men on the beach wear long board shorts rather than speedos - of course, this is partly do to the seriously deep cultural homophobia at least in the US. And there's nothing wrong with a larger, older man in a speedo, German tourist stereotypes notwithstanding.
While I'm at it, a friend of mine has some nice bear pics at johnrand.com
posted by Death and Gravity at 7:59 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
There is at least some discussion of i for women, but I think it is just as true for men, but it is less overt and all the more insidious for that. Not just bellies and muscles (or the lack thereof), but look around at all the combovers, look at men in porn (gay and straight) and see how many small cocks you see. Men certainly notice this and even when nothing is said in words directly to the man who is considered under par, I've certainly heard enough second hand comments to know that the same comments have been made about me, and I've certainly felt enough of that shame, though I'm getting better.
As a gay man I find penii of all shapes and sizes fascinating, even when I don't want to play with them, and i particularly like the look of a soft one (and the feel as well).
In the same vein, note how many men on the beach wear long board shorts rather than speedos - of course, this is partly do to the seriously deep cultural homophobia at least in the US. And there's nothing wrong with a larger, older man in a speedo, German tourist stereotypes notwithstanding.
While I'm at it, a friend of mine has some nice bear pics at johnrand.com
posted by Death and Gravity at 7:59 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
In the same vein, note how many men on the beach wear long board shorts rather than speedos.
Last year my wife and I went on our belated honeymoon to Puerto Rico and as a gift my wife got me a pair of knockoff Speedos (actual Speedos are $$$) in a sort of 70s sports shorts/boxer-brief shape (like this). They were, by far and away, much more comfortable and flattering than mesh-lined trunks have ever been and I am never going back and I suggest any dudes who don't like board shorts or mesh-lined trunks try a pair one day.
posted by griphus at 8:24 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Last year my wife and I went on our belated honeymoon to Puerto Rico and as a gift my wife got me a pair of knockoff Speedos (actual Speedos are $$$) in a sort of 70s sports shorts/boxer-brief shape (like this). They were, by far and away, much more comfortable and flattering than mesh-lined trunks have ever been and I am never going back and I suggest any dudes who don't like board shorts or mesh-lined trunks try a pair one day.
posted by griphus at 8:24 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
I must watch totally different movies from you guys, because I see naked men in media all the time. Not porny, not sexualized, just men without clothes on.
I don't keep a running count of the number and type of naked people I see (yet*), but I would guess I see a lot more non-sexualized naked men than women in movies. It's still pretty unusual to see a woman without her clothes on who isn't thin and traditionally attractive at least, even when she's not being explicitly sexualized, but I see non-sexualized and average looking naked men pretty frequently.
Mainstream US media is full of all kinds of uncanniness. There are all kinds of strange little things about those media universes, but they're strange in pretty consistent ways. Among those things, women are usually a decade or two younger than they would be in real life. They're attracted to usually average looking older men for no apparent reason. I always imagine it's producers or someone choosing actors who look like them and putting them in wish fulfillment roles. But it's always a telling rather than a showing. They never really adopt the (straight) female gaze and let the camera explain what's so attractive about those guys.
* I am thinking a nice, fat, bound notebook with a label reading, "People I Have Seen Naked," and I'll keep it on the end table in the living room so people who come over will know how cool I am.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:18 AM on August 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't keep a running count of the number and type of naked people I see (yet*), but I would guess I see a lot more non-sexualized naked men than women in movies. It's still pretty unusual to see a woman without her clothes on who isn't thin and traditionally attractive at least, even when she's not being explicitly sexualized, but I see non-sexualized and average looking naked men pretty frequently.
Mainstream US media is full of all kinds of uncanniness. There are all kinds of strange little things about those media universes, but they're strange in pretty consistent ways. Among those things, women are usually a decade or two younger than they would be in real life. They're attracted to usually average looking older men for no apparent reason. I always imagine it's producers or someone choosing actors who look like them and putting them in wish fulfillment roles. But it's always a telling rather than a showing. They never really adopt the (straight) female gaze and let the camera explain what's so attractive about those guys.
* I am thinking a nice, fat, bound notebook with a label reading, "People I Have Seen Naked," and I'll keep it on the end table in the living room so people who come over will know how cool I am.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:18 AM on August 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thanks for this post, griphus.
I'm a straight male, and I would love to see the attitude toward's mens' bodies change. Seems like even here on Metafilter, every few months one comes across a post that goes all "HURF DURF Ladies, your bodies are works of art unlike our stupid male bodies which are so gross and stupid and pathetic and comical, amirite? HURF" I always shake my head sadly at those kinds of posts, because I feel like the person who's making them is missing out on a lot of good stuff about these physical containers for our souls.
I love my body. I like looking at other men's bodies, especially men who -- whatever their shape or level of fitness -- are comfortable with their physical form. I don't necessarily seek out views of penises, but I don't recoil when I see one. Sometimes I chuckle at my own ("You're an odd fella, aren't you?" I say to it with a smile) and other times I'm like "Hell yeah, penis! You go, boy!"
In conclusion, my body is a land of wonder.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:05 AM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm a straight male, and I would love to see the attitude toward's mens' bodies change. Seems like even here on Metafilter, every few months one comes across a post that goes all "HURF DURF Ladies, your bodies are works of art unlike our stupid male bodies which are so gross and stupid and pathetic and comical, amirite? HURF" I always shake my head sadly at those kinds of posts, because I feel like the person who's making them is missing out on a lot of good stuff about these physical containers for our souls.
I love my body. I like looking at other men's bodies, especially men who -- whatever their shape or level of fitness -- are comfortable with their physical form. I don't necessarily seek out views of penises, but I don't recoil when I see one. Sometimes I chuckle at my own ("You're an odd fella, aren't you?" I say to it with a smile) and other times I'm like "Hell yeah, penis! You go, boy!"
In conclusion, my body is a land of wonder.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:05 AM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
« Older Life is just one damn relatedness after another | Murder in the 4-0 Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
As a gay man who watches a lot of straight group sex and gangbang porn online because I like looking at the kind of men who usually aren't sexualized by regular porn but who do appear in those sorts of videos, I found this small collection of photographs refreshing and pleasing.
There's a lot to be appreciated about the male form. I know that the "standard wisdom" is that the Male Junk is unappealing, but that's actually not true. The amount of variation in that package is pretty amazing given all the evolution that could have made it more standardized. And the entire total of a male body, from the hair growth patterns to the way the muscles and the fat land on the torso, and the way men carry their bodies (which seems to be much more widely varied from women from what I've seen) leads to there being an endless kaleidoscope of possibility that can provide an interested viewer with a lot of choice. Even the same man photographed twice in different poses can be a very different experience.
I think the world in general (and the US in particular) would be more healthy if there were more male nudes, like Page 3 Guys or whatever. The current taboo would lose its sting and everyone would be more comfortable with what they encounter or what they own.
Male nudity isn't something that should be hidden. It should be just a part of the fabric of life. Every guy encounters a nude guy as they step out of the shower. Other nude guys shouldn't be a mystery and shouldn't be threatening. We're all the same even as we are all different.
posted by hippybear at 6:57 PM on August 4, 2016 [40 favorites]