Clutter Block #4: Fantasy Stuff For My Fantasy Life
October 25, 2023 7:54 PM Subscribe
7 emotional blocks making it harder to declutter.
#1 My Stuff Keeps Me in the Past. Looking at these items may reinforce that your best days are behind you.
#2 My Stuff Tells Me Who I Am. Ask what am I looking to these things to tell me about myself?
#3 Stuff I'm Avoiding. (It me! It me!)
CBC interview with decluttering maven Tracy McCubbin (onTikTok).
7 emotional magnets for clutter"
#1 My Stuff Keeps Me in the Past. Looking at these items may reinforce that your best days are behind you.
#2 My Stuff Tells Me Who I Am. Ask what am I looking to these things to tell me about myself?
#3 Stuff I'm Avoiding. (It me! It me!)
CBC interview with decluttering maven Tracy McCubbin (onTikTok).
7 emotional magnets for clutter"
Purpose, love, connection, wisdom, confidence, self-respect, and ease. These are the feelings that make us excited to get out of bed in the morning! But when they’re missing from our lives, these internal magnets get flipped and instead of pulling in what will truly fulfill us, we begin pulling in stuff instead by impulse buying, panic shopping, and binge buying.
Great article and interview. Personally, I think there's something to be said for the idea that clutter is a trauma symptom.
posted by rpfields at 8:30 PM on October 25, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by rpfields at 8:30 PM on October 25, 2023 [14 favorites]
Great article and interview. Personally, I think there's something to be said for the idea that clutter is a trauma symptom
rpfields, that link is broken.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:38 PM on October 25, 2023
rpfields, that link is broken.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:38 PM on October 25, 2023
I have clutter because I don't have enough physical energy to deal with it.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:38 PM on October 25, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:38 PM on October 25, 2023 [10 favorites]
My children are crafters and every part of my home must display their work or contain what is nebulously called 'supplies', and can be anything from cool sticks, empty bottles, shells, carefully flattened cardboard boxes, egg cartons, paper bags from the groceries...
I'd put them in a designated craft storage room, but that space contains my yarn, fabric, beads, paints, pastels, canvasses, embroidery floss...
Genetics is a hell of a thing sometimes.
posted by Jilder at 8:45 PM on October 25, 2023 [31 favorites]
I'd put them in a designated craft storage room, but that space contains my yarn, fabric, beads, paints, pastels, canvasses, embroidery floss...
Genetics is a hell of a thing sometimes.
posted by Jilder at 8:45 PM on October 25, 2023 [31 favorites]
Initially I thought this post was going to be about some sort of hoarder's auction: "Clutter Block #4, now open for bidding."
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:12 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:12 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't have "clutter"; I have tools...for every remotely conceivable contingency.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:14 PM on October 25, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:14 PM on October 25, 2023 [20 favorites]
Per a sign I saw at Maker Faire, it's not hoarding if your stuff is awesome.
I believe the clutter trauma thing because that's when we become hoarders in my gene pool.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:54 PM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
I believe the clutter trauma thing because that's when we become hoarders in my gene pool.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:54 PM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
Its shocking difficult to get rid of basic trash in our city now. I have a broken broom that I would very much like to be rid of. It doesn't qualify to go in the recycling bin. I can't put it in a city pickup trash bag because its too big. I need to either get a hacksaw to cut it in half and put it in a trash bag, or drive it to the city dump six miles away... so there it stays, in the closet, being clutter and not thrown away, until I can solve the rubix cube puzzle of how to get rid of it.
My life is full of these things.
posted by anastasiav at 9:58 PM on October 25, 2023 [23 favorites]
My life is full of these things.
posted by anastasiav at 9:58 PM on October 25, 2023 [23 favorites]
I always think the best way to get rid of clutter is to move house. Even better if it’s far away and possibly expensive so you do actually need to make choices based on available space and cost.
Everyone I know who’s got too much junk haven’t moved in decades.
posted by LizBoBiz at 11:00 PM on October 25, 2023 [11 favorites]
Everyone I know who’s got too much junk haven’t moved in decades.
posted by LizBoBiz at 11:00 PM on October 25, 2023 [11 favorites]
I always think the best way to get rid of clutter is to move house. Even better if it’s far away and possibly expensive so you do actually need to make choices based on available space and cost.
About the only pleasure I've ever gotten from the actual physical moving house part of moving is hiring a skip and just yeeting anything that has displeased me into it.
posted by Jilder at 12:10 AM on October 26, 2023 [10 favorites]
About the only pleasure I've ever gotten from the actual physical moving house part of moving is hiring a skip and just yeeting anything that has displeased me into it.
posted by Jilder at 12:10 AM on October 26, 2023 [10 favorites]
a single woman buying an 80-inch TV to attract a man
Now I'm imagining a world where single women set up mancaves to lure wandering males with pool tables and shit.
posted by adept256 at 12:16 AM on October 26, 2023 [33 favorites]
Now I'm imagining a world where single women set up mancaves to lure wandering males with pool tables and shit.
posted by adept256 at 12:16 AM on October 26, 2023 [33 favorites]
And then, they use them with other single women! When the wandering males arrive, they get their asses beat at pool.
posted by inexorably_forward at 2:22 AM on October 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by inexorably_forward at 2:22 AM on October 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
Lord forbid people have memories, dreams, family obligations or intermittent hobbies, rather than just being the best streamlined capitalist contributors they can be.
posted by daisystomper at 3:33 AM on October 26, 2023 [32 favorites]
posted by daisystomper at 3:33 AM on October 26, 2023 [32 favorites]
When you online shop constantly, have shopping bags that have never been unpacked, and clothes with tags—you have a problem with excessive shopping and the power you feel from buying something new. It's a post-purchase high that keeps you buying and buying and buying and buying, until your home is overrun with designer clothes and random knickknacks you don't need and things you'll never use.
look I'm not saying don't feel A Way about this piece but if "maybe you'd feel better if you tried volunteer work instead of buying random shit you don't need" is suddenly a pro-capitalist take then I've fallen into a world where Superman has a goatee and does a little light tax fraud sometimes
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:32 AM on October 26, 2023 [18 favorites]
look I'm not saying don't feel A Way about this piece but if "maybe you'd feel better if you tried volunteer work instead of buying random shit you don't need" is suddenly a pro-capitalist take then I've fallen into a world where Superman has a goatee and does a little light tax fraud sometimes
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:32 AM on October 26, 2023 [18 favorites]
I was recently visiting my parents in the home I grew up in. While their house is perfectly clean, and not dreadfully cluttered to the naked eye, every single closed drawer and cabinet is full of a combination of random pieces of paper that my dad creates/acquires and then forgets about and totally out-of-context objects that have been shoved there when, presumably, Mom needed to clear the dining room table of said random pieces of paper. I was looking for the hammer that I had set down and Mom had "tidied" and discovered, in the sideboard drawer, a new-in-package Oral-B gum stimulator. The whole house is like this.
(The hammer had been put under the kitchen sink. Which is not where it goes, and it took Mom a solid ten minutes to remember where she'd put it. This is why the whole house is like this.)
posted by restless_nomad at 5:29 AM on October 26, 2023 [13 favorites]
(The hammer had been put under the kitchen sink. Which is not where it goes, and it took Mom a solid ten minutes to remember where she'd put it. This is why the whole house is like this.)
posted by restless_nomad at 5:29 AM on October 26, 2023 [13 favorites]
also like, the thing about these articles, well let me preface this actually
five years ago a Life Event happened and I lost about 99% of all the shit I owned, and it sucked, it sucked so much, I'm an autistic-ass crouton-petter and I loved my stuff, I had some real cool stuff & a lot of adorable stuffed animals & yeah
also my mom used to do the thing where she'd threaten to throw all my toys away and nothing felt worse, I know I try to like sound cool on this website but I will still basically have a crying meltdown immediately if anyone gets even close to pushing the "I'm gonna get rid of your shit" button, probably especially now
so I get how people do not like these articles! here is the thing though
some people live in hoarding situations or semi-hoarding situations that are actively making them unhappy, they can't have people over, they feel guilty and deficient as adult humans, they don't get to use many of the things they own because they're in a pile somewhere in the middle of a room full of piles, like genuinely decluttering and organization will actually help them, it's not gonna be easy either physically or psychically but they will feel better afterwards
like I say this as, neither taquito boyfriend or I have an iota of executive function that does not come hard-won, and he moves about 800 times faster than I do & will blow into a room as a card-carrying agent of fucking chaos scattering random objects over horizontal surfaces like he's a level designer for fucking Fallout New Vegas, and you will never convince me that the six hours I spent re-organizing and cleaning out the pantry a few weeks ago has not measurably improved my life
(for example I know that we own eight little canisters of baking powder now, and knowledge is power, so I've got that going for me; someday taquito boyfriend too will discover that all the little canisters of baking powder are clearly visible & clustered together and he too can count them before he buys another little canister of baking powder, like, fuck, anyway)
probably a lot of people not on the hoarding spectrum live in situations that are Fine, they basically want to own all the stuff they own except for the odd pair of non-fitting pants they never liked and the copy of Who Moved My Cheese? that their uncle bought them for Winter Gift Holiday the year he was only buying everyone copies of Who Moved My Cheese? for Winter Gift Holiday
and I get that it is probably the fault of the way these articles are always framed as The Next Good Self-Care Thing We're All Doing For Ourselves that these people, instead of thinking "Hey these tips might be helpful for people who are not me, I am free to either not care about them or take them as a reminder to go donate that pair of pants and that copy of Who Moved My Cheese?," start reacting as though the author has literally threatened to come over to their personal house and take away things that they love and/or use and/or want to continue owning for any reason
which like, you do not have to declutter at all if you don't want to! the authors of these articles probably don't even know where you live and if they're particularly insistent about getting in your house to take all your books, you could probably defeat them with a flashlight bat, they don't seem that tough
also the stuff that goes on the chopping block when you're decluttering is not your first edition Marcel Prousts or beloved stuffed animals, it's genuinely stuff you don't actually want or use or care about that you're keeping for weird trauma reasons, sometimes in hoarding situations it is actual literal garbage
but yeah I think the decluttering idea gets sold as a Good For Everybody & people feel instinctively threatened & that's why they get so mad & so insistent on arguments that these articles & their authors are bad somehow, and like really you don't have to prove that, you can just opt not to throw your shit away, it's genuinely fine
posted by taquito sunrise at 5:40 AM on October 26, 2023 [85 favorites]
five years ago a Life Event happened and I lost about 99% of all the shit I owned, and it sucked, it sucked so much, I'm an autistic-ass crouton-petter and I loved my stuff, I had some real cool stuff & a lot of adorable stuffed animals & yeah
also my mom used to do the thing where she'd threaten to throw all my toys away and nothing felt worse, I know I try to like sound cool on this website but I will still basically have a crying meltdown immediately if anyone gets even close to pushing the "I'm gonna get rid of your shit" button, probably especially now
so I get how people do not like these articles! here is the thing though
some people live in hoarding situations or semi-hoarding situations that are actively making them unhappy, they can't have people over, they feel guilty and deficient as adult humans, they don't get to use many of the things they own because they're in a pile somewhere in the middle of a room full of piles, like genuinely decluttering and organization will actually help them, it's not gonna be easy either physically or psychically but they will feel better afterwards
like I say this as, neither taquito boyfriend or I have an iota of executive function that does not come hard-won, and he moves about 800 times faster than I do & will blow into a room as a card-carrying agent of fucking chaos scattering random objects over horizontal surfaces like he's a level designer for fucking Fallout New Vegas, and you will never convince me that the six hours I spent re-organizing and cleaning out the pantry a few weeks ago has not measurably improved my life
(for example I know that we own eight little canisters of baking powder now, and knowledge is power, so I've got that going for me; someday taquito boyfriend too will discover that all the little canisters of baking powder are clearly visible & clustered together and he too can count them before he buys another little canister of baking powder, like, fuck, anyway)
probably a lot of people not on the hoarding spectrum live in situations that are Fine, they basically want to own all the stuff they own except for the odd pair of non-fitting pants they never liked and the copy of Who Moved My Cheese? that their uncle bought them for Winter Gift Holiday the year he was only buying everyone copies of Who Moved My Cheese? for Winter Gift Holiday
and I get that it is probably the fault of the way these articles are always framed as The Next Good Self-Care Thing We're All Doing For Ourselves that these people, instead of thinking "Hey these tips might be helpful for people who are not me, I am free to either not care about them or take them as a reminder to go donate that pair of pants and that copy of Who Moved My Cheese?," start reacting as though the author has literally threatened to come over to their personal house and take away things that they love and/or use and/or want to continue owning for any reason
which like, you do not have to declutter at all if you don't want to! the authors of these articles probably don't even know where you live and if they're particularly insistent about getting in your house to take all your books, you could probably defeat them with a flashlight bat, they don't seem that tough
also the stuff that goes on the chopping block when you're decluttering is not your first edition Marcel Prousts or beloved stuffed animals, it's genuinely stuff you don't actually want or use or care about that you're keeping for weird trauma reasons, sometimes in hoarding situations it is actual literal garbage
but yeah I think the decluttering idea gets sold as a Good For Everybody & people feel instinctively threatened & that's why they get so mad & so insistent on arguments that these articles & their authors are bad somehow, and like really you don't have to prove that, you can just opt not to throw your shit away, it's genuinely fine
posted by taquito sunrise at 5:40 AM on October 26, 2023 [85 favorites]
I spent several weeks this fall emptying the book room so that I can remodel it. This involved loading up (whispering) about 1500 books and (even quieter whispering) throwing them away. I have completed the first draft of The Culling and am now halfway through the remodeling. Literally could not be happier about this, wish I'd done it years ago, but I wasn't ready to do that then. Anyway, here are a couple of things I sort of wrapped my head around to get to this point.
1. Having Books is not a personality trait and it does not define me. (This was a big realization for me. It's taken me like twenty years to get to this point. I still read. I read like a mofo. I read SO MUCH... but mostly now on my phone where it does not take up any space in my house. Many, many, many books fit on my phone.)
2. I've lived in this house since 1996 and have not openedsome most of these books in literally 20 years. So... how much do I really need them? Are they... decor? For a room I literally cannot walk in because of the books on every flat surface including the floor? A room that nobody ever sees because the door is kept shut to keep the literal mountain of books from escaping? Seriously, what's the effing point, here?
3. It is OK to get rid of the books that I will not or might not ever need again. (Pro tip: "Definitely won't need" and "might not need" are really the same pile and they all go away.) This was another big leap forward in my understanding of things.
4. If you have a house that was smoked in (I quit in 2003) and had cats (2, never allowed in the book room), nobody wants your used books and you must throw them away. It is OK to do this.
posted by which_chick at 5:53 AM on October 26, 2023 [26 favorites]
1. Having Books is not a personality trait and it does not define me. (This was a big realization for me. It's taken me like twenty years to get to this point. I still read. I read like a mofo. I read SO MUCH... but mostly now on my phone where it does not take up any space in my house. Many, many, many books fit on my phone.)
2. I've lived in this house since 1996 and have not opened
3. It is OK to get rid of the books that I will not or might not ever need again. (Pro tip: "Definitely won't need" and "might not need" are really the same pile and they all go away.) This was another big leap forward in my understanding of things.
4. If you have a house that was smoked in (I quit in 2003) and had cats (2, never allowed in the book room), nobody wants your used books and you must throw them away. It is OK to do this.
posted by which_chick at 5:53 AM on October 26, 2023 [26 favorites]
I dunno. The mania for decluttering, at least to me, feels a lot like an effort to erase the physical past, so it matches (or doesn’t compete with) our digital present, where so much is ephemeral. Solid objects vs. bits and pixels.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:03 AM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 6:03 AM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
Anecdatum/counterpoint: I have a lot more and less ephemeral digital artifacts of my recent life than I ever had non-digital artifacts in the past. The relatively low cost and small-to-us (maybe not for wherever the cloud data centres are located) space requirement for digital storage make it way easier to keep rather than cull. To the detriment in some cases of young folks who grew up in the digital age and did not have the same opportunities for ephemerality of some of the mistakes they made while growing and becoming adults that older folks had. And how many folks have years to decades of personal history of blog posts or Metafilter comments or similar who never would have kept a written personal journal?
posted by eviemath at 6:43 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 6:43 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
2. I've lived in this house since 1996 and have not opened some most of these books in literally 20 years. So... how much do I really need them? Are they... decor? For a room I literally cannot walk in because of the books on every flat surface including the floor? A room that nobody ever sees because the door is kept shut to keep the literal mountain of books from escaping? Seriously, what's the effing point, here?
We did a huge culling of books when we moved out of our first house. We had both brought a lot of books to the situation (mostly from grad school) and then had bought more together. And then it came time to move, and I looked at it all and just decided that no, a lot of the books didn't need to move with us to the next place. So now we have maybe a fifth of the books we used to have, and although it's not creating any issues (we have adequate shelf space) I'm leaning towards doing another culling to further reduce the books down to just the ones with sentimental value, or that will definitely be reread, or are both not easily found at the library and likely to be opened/enjoyed.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:18 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
We did a huge culling of books when we moved out of our first house. We had both brought a lot of books to the situation (mostly from grad school) and then had bought more together. And then it came time to move, and I looked at it all and just decided that no, a lot of the books didn't need to move with us to the next place. So now we have maybe a fifth of the books we used to have, and although it's not creating any issues (we have adequate shelf space) I'm leaning towards doing another culling to further reduce the books down to just the ones with sentimental value, or that will definitely be reread, or are both not easily found at the library and likely to be opened/enjoyed.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:18 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I got rid of about 2/3 of my books in the last move, and in retrospect I didn't need to lose that many (we have more shelf space now), and I wish the bookshelves were full. But I also haven't reread any of the books on the shelves bc Baby. I think I mostly keep them because I like seeing them there, and because I grew up in a house full of books and maybe the baby will like to read if he also grows up in a house full of books.
posted by subdee at 7:26 AM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by subdee at 7:26 AM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
In the summer of 2020, our landlord's negligence led to a catastrophic house fire that destroyed everything we owned but for a couple of laptops my wife grabbed as she ran out the door. I don't recommend the trauma, but as a means of decluttering it was fucking awesome, no lie. There's only like six material objects I actually miss. I've dealt with it by just buying only the necessities: I've lived for 3+ years now with only five pairs of pants and four pairs of shoes. My wife went the other direction, though: she had to replace everything, even the shit she never used. So much goddamn clutter. Thanks for letting me vent.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:12 AM on October 26, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:12 AM on October 26, 2023 [9 favorites]
When we moved to Kingston from Sherbrooke nearly a decade ago, Shepherd and I held The Unstuffening in our old house. Basically we put anything we were moving with us to a room and closed it off, and invited friends to come over and take our stuff. It worked out incredibly well and we moved to a new city relatively unencumbered.
We do it occasionally in our current home---especially since our city holds several Giveaway Days a year--because no matter how hard you get rid of stuff, your brain hates a vacuum! We'll never be hardcore minimalists, but it is nice to get rid of shit that you will never use or haven't used in a very long time. I am definitely at an age where I don't need more things, and I have gotten incredibly good at delaying purchases that might be unnecessary. (Like, I am a huge fan of leaving things in online shopping baskets for 48 hours to see if I really need it or if I just want it.)
posted by Kitteh at 8:27 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
We do it occasionally in our current home---especially since our city holds several Giveaway Days a year--because no matter how hard you get rid of stuff, your brain hates a vacuum! We'll never be hardcore minimalists, but it is nice to get rid of shit that you will never use or haven't used in a very long time. I am definitely at an age where I don't need more things, and I have gotten incredibly good at delaying purchases that might be unnecessary. (Like, I am a huge fan of leaving things in online shopping baskets for 48 hours to see if I really need it or if I just want it.)
posted by Kitteh at 8:27 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've been reading about decluttering and minimalism and simplifying my entire adult life and yet..
In fairness, today's clutter is largely not the same stuff as the clutter of five or ten years ago. But I've never found a system that prevents clutter entirely.
posted by mersen at 8:29 AM on October 26, 2023
In fairness, today's clutter is largely not the same stuff as the clutter of five or ten years ago. But I've never found a system that prevents clutter entirely.
posted by mersen at 8:29 AM on October 26, 2023
I have too many books, too many things, because the represent something I wanted to do and still kinda want to do and have failed to do so far. The thought of getting rid of them feels like a failure.
That said, I've made some movement towards ridding myself of books that I know with certainty I'm never going to read or re-read.
My CD/vinyl collection... well, that's going to just have to get cleared away by somebody else when I pass from this world. I used to hold out hope that maybe my brother or kiddos would want them, but probably not.
posted by jzb at 8:37 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
That said, I've made some movement towards ridding myself of books that I know with certainty I'm never going to read or re-read.
My CD/vinyl collection... well, that's going to just have to get cleared away by somebody else when I pass from this world. I used to hold out hope that maybe my brother or kiddos would want them, but probably not.
posted by jzb at 8:37 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have found the key to organizing my clutter over here lately. No more agonizing with one simple step: I accepted the fact that it's really hard for me to throw things away and so I decided to try to do something with them instead.
So far it's been pretty awesome. The piles have shrunk and I have managed to create some pretty good stuff out of my trash. Broken terracotta pots are now a multi-story fairy garden. The metal frame for a destroyed wooden swing became a bicycle rack for our backyard.
Best of all, a witch has opened a very weird and magical apothecary on the front porch. It looks like she used my clutter piles and her magic and that's all. Like I could swear that the jar of Dragon's Breath on her altar is made out of dog toy stuffing and the jar of Candied Fireflies looks a lot like a chunk of old hot glue and tinfoil and rhinestones from my stash of busted old art projects.
Now I have opened my heart to the possibilities of my treasures. It's almost like if you dust something off and really look at it you can finally see it for what it might be. I moved my art desk and started playing with things that have been waiting for years and now I have a plan to spend the winter making a series of mixed media sculptures. The first one is well underway and I am also apparently making my first self portrait which kind of feels like it's making itself. The whole thing has been really wonderful so far and there's been a side effect where I feel like I am shedding shame about my love for objects.
So my new approach to the clutter I can't bear to part with is to embrace it. Bedazzle it and display it. Trash to treasure.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 8:39 AM on October 26, 2023 [15 favorites]
So far it's been pretty awesome. The piles have shrunk and I have managed to create some pretty good stuff out of my trash. Broken terracotta pots are now a multi-story fairy garden. The metal frame for a destroyed wooden swing became a bicycle rack for our backyard.
Best of all, a witch has opened a very weird and magical apothecary on the front porch. It looks like she used my clutter piles and her magic and that's all. Like I could swear that the jar of Dragon's Breath on her altar is made out of dog toy stuffing and the jar of Candied Fireflies looks a lot like a chunk of old hot glue and tinfoil and rhinestones from my stash of busted old art projects.
Now I have opened my heart to the possibilities of my treasures. It's almost like if you dust something off and really look at it you can finally see it for what it might be. I moved my art desk and started playing with things that have been waiting for years and now I have a plan to spend the winter making a series of mixed media sculptures. The first one is well underway and I am also apparently making my first self portrait which kind of feels like it's making itself. The whole thing has been really wonderful so far and there's been a side effect where I feel like I am shedding shame about my love for objects.
So my new approach to the clutter I can't bear to part with is to embrace it. Bedazzle it and display it. Trash to treasure.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 8:39 AM on October 26, 2023 [15 favorites]
Also: what on earth is a "crouton-petter"?
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:43 AM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:43 AM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
As previously explained on AskMe: Gently petting a salad crouton?
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
Holy cow, thanks. That was an epic read.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:54 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:54 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Books really are in their own category when it comes to clutter, precious in an intangible yet specific way that makes them feel especially bad to throw out, even when they're objectively bad themselves. I picked up a novel recently that spoke so reverently about sexualizing little girls that I nearly threw it across the room. Usually when I'm done with a book, I put it back into the world, to educate or entertain further, but I don't want to inflict this on anyone else, so I feel stuck. Really I should just bin it, but somehow putting a brand new book in the recycling feels morally wrong. So instead it's sitting in my camping gear, waiting to be used as a firestarter and even that I feel a bit weird about.
Related: It's amazing what some people will assume based on how many books you keep in your house. Once upon a time, in my early 20s, I let a stranger crash over on my couch after a party nearby because the buses had closed down for the night. When he woke up and looked around, he sneered that because I "seemed smart", he'd expected me to own "more books than clothes". I had to pause. Was this negging? Pressing snidely on, he then advised me that no one would ever believe I read ("had a brain") unless I showed proof. Apparently we're all meant to keep every book we read, displayed like trophies. I couldn't stop laughing about it after I turfed him out. Even breezing past the sexism, if I kept every book I read, where would I live? That's more books than would fit in my apartment. That's a building of books! He was in his 30s then, must be in his 50s or 60s now. What must his place look like? I almost wish I'd stayed in touch with the buffoon, just so I could send him this article.
posted by foxtongue at 8:59 AM on October 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
Related: It's amazing what some people will assume based on how many books you keep in your house. Once upon a time, in my early 20s, I let a stranger crash over on my couch after a party nearby because the buses had closed down for the night. When he woke up and looked around, he sneered that because I "seemed smart", he'd expected me to own "more books than clothes". I had to pause. Was this negging? Pressing snidely on, he then advised me that no one would ever believe I read ("had a brain") unless I showed proof. Apparently we're all meant to keep every book we read, displayed like trophies. I couldn't stop laughing about it after I turfed him out. Even breezing past the sexism, if I kept every book I read, where would I live? That's more books than would fit in my apartment. That's a building of books! He was in his 30s then, must be in his 50s or 60s now. What must his place look like? I almost wish I'd stayed in touch with the buffoon, just so I could send him this article.
posted by foxtongue at 8:59 AM on October 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
Roadblock No. 4: I Have Fantasy Stuff For My Fantasy Life
Oh dear, it me. See, I have a hobby I've had my entire life (painting gaming minis). I don't play wargames any more because I live in the middle of nowhere and have two younger kids (I may have plans for when they're older!) I like to *think* I still love to paint models. What I *actually* love these days is buying models with the absolute plan to paint them, along with other similar models I already have, and thinking what a cool army it'll be, then starting painting a few, get distracted, get put off by how ugly they are when they're half-way done and the mistakes, then the dreaded 'I will get round to finishing them at the weekend (which one is not specified) then almost always get sidetracked eventually by another project, and well, repeat.
At least it's all piled in boxes in the garage where it's not actively bothering anyone who's not trying to get to say, the lawnmower.
But it's not that I've stopped investing in the now. It's just fantasizing about painting stuff is almost as satisfying as having *actually* painted it, is way less effort, and I can visualise the *amazingly* perfect paint job I've pulled off - so I can spend the time doing other boring 'staying alive' stuff instead. I may also have bought a cheap 3d resin printer, so instead of buying expensive models, I can spend ages coming up with the perfect designs and parts combos, printing them, then sticking them in boxes until the next inspiration/plan/delusion strikes, which is at least a helluva lot cheaper than Games Workshop's plastic crack.
Ohh, the girls might fancy a game of heroquest this weekend. Better get working on that perfect printed druid model that they love for the custom character... and maybe finish painting it sometime in 2037.
But I can't just chuck all that stuff in the bin! That shit was expensive! Quite a chunk are now so old and out of production but vintage that they're actually worth more than I paid! And they'll be awesome fun to paint someday! I definitely have a problem!
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:06 AM on October 26, 2023 [10 favorites]
Oh dear, it me. See, I have a hobby I've had my entire life (painting gaming minis). I don't play wargames any more because I live in the middle of nowhere and have two younger kids (I may have plans for when they're older!) I like to *think* I still love to paint models. What I *actually* love these days is buying models with the absolute plan to paint them, along with other similar models I already have, and thinking what a cool army it'll be, then starting painting a few, get distracted, get put off by how ugly they are when they're half-way done and the mistakes, then the dreaded 'I will get round to finishing them at the weekend (which one is not specified) then almost always get sidetracked eventually by another project, and well, repeat.
At least it's all piled in boxes in the garage where it's not actively bothering anyone who's not trying to get to say, the lawnmower.
But it's not that I've stopped investing in the now. It's just fantasizing about painting stuff is almost as satisfying as having *actually* painted it, is way less effort, and I can visualise the *amazingly* perfect paint job I've pulled off - so I can spend the time doing other boring 'staying alive' stuff instead. I may also have bought a cheap 3d resin printer, so instead of buying expensive models, I can spend ages coming up with the perfect designs and parts combos, printing them, then sticking them in boxes until the next inspiration/plan/delusion strikes, which is at least a helluva lot cheaper than Games Workshop's plastic crack.
Ohh, the girls might fancy a game of heroquest this weekend. Better get working on that perfect printed druid model that they love for the custom character... and maybe finish painting it sometime in 2037.
But I can't just chuck all that stuff in the bin! That shit was expensive! Quite a chunk are now so old and out of production but vintage that they're actually worth more than I paid! And they'll be awesome fun to paint someday! I definitely have a problem!
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:06 AM on October 26, 2023 [10 favorites]
(Make that MeTa, not AskMe. It's a fun bit of lore.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:11 AM on October 26, 2023
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:11 AM on October 26, 2023
I’m holding on to certain items (the silver, for instance) because what I really want in my heart of hearts is a “proper” life because I equate it with being safe. I know it’s an illusion, but the pull is strong. And would I actually be happier in such a life? Who knows. But my current life definitely feels precarious. I’m trying to embrace the precarity because I don’t see it going anywhere. Still hard to give up the silver though.
posted by HotToddy at 9:14 AM on October 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 9:14 AM on October 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Now I'm imagining a world where single women set up mancaves to lure wandering males with pool tables and shit.
And bear traps, and pits with sharpened stakes, and...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:39 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
And bear traps, and pits with sharpened stakes, and...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:39 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
"I have a limited number of hours on this planet and I'd rather not spend any of them organizing or otherwise managing the items in my house" is missing
posted by potrzebie at 8:06 PM on October 25
For me it's the opposite conclusion: "I have a limited number of hours on this planet and I'd rather not spend any of them organizing or otherwise managing the items in my house, and that's why I'd like to declutter and reduce the inventory". Alas, more executive function is needed to reduce the clutter that takes up so much executive function to deal with.
posted by meijusa at 9:39 AM on October 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 8:06 PM on October 25
For me it's the opposite conclusion: "I have a limited number of hours on this planet and I'd rather not spend any of them organizing or otherwise managing the items in my house, and that's why I'd like to declutter and reduce the inventory". Alas, more executive function is needed to reduce the clutter that takes up so much executive function to deal with.
posted by meijusa at 9:39 AM on October 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
Am I the only one who read that headline and thought that it was going to be an article about managing inventory in an MMO? Like "5 reasons you should have an alt near the bank in Orgrimmar.".
posted by Sphinx at 9:42 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Sphinx at 9:42 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
yeah...I have a lot of feels about this.
for sure, as mentioned above, there is a big difference between true hoarding, a trauma response, keeping piles of straight-up garbage, unhygienic living situation, dangerous etc.,
vs. just clutter, just having too much stuff.
I am far from a minimalist. the 400ish books in the house are mostly mine, and I have a lot of art supplies, some of which I actually use! but I do purge regularly, even books. I like to purge. I don't like clutter. all of my books are on shelves and the art supplies are not in the way of anything.
but then there is my husband. he is NOT a trauma hoarder, he just likes having lots of stuff and clutter doesn't bother him, and he's not naturally inclined to purging (he is working on this, and getting better).
but, but...we used to have 3 Cuisinarts! (down to 2 now) we have about 15 cutting boards? he has 5 bass guitars (and yet only 2 hands!) if I showed you pictures of our desks you would laugh, we have identical executive style desks. you can see the surface of mine...not his.
he is trying though. we have been in our house 20 years but we may leave some day. I dread that day...
posted by supermedusa at 9:43 AM on October 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
for sure, as mentioned above, there is a big difference between true hoarding, a trauma response, keeping piles of straight-up garbage, unhygienic living situation, dangerous etc.,
vs. just clutter, just having too much stuff.
I am far from a minimalist. the 400ish books in the house are mostly mine, and I have a lot of art supplies, some of which I actually use! but I do purge regularly, even books. I like to purge. I don't like clutter. all of my books are on shelves and the art supplies are not in the way of anything.
but then there is my husband. he is NOT a trauma hoarder, he just likes having lots of stuff and clutter doesn't bother him, and he's not naturally inclined to purging (he is working on this, and getting better).
but, but...we used to have 3 Cuisinarts! (down to 2 now) we have about 15 cutting boards? he has 5 bass guitars (and yet only 2 hands!) if I showed you pictures of our desks you would laugh, we have identical executive style desks. you can see the surface of mine...not his.
he is trying though. we have been in our house 20 years but we may leave some day. I dread that day...
posted by supermedusa at 9:43 AM on October 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
We had to move everything (30 years worth!) out of the attic recently because rewiring the house and did an epic decluttering job. For everything removed we asked "do we need this?", and when putting things back, "do we *really* need this?"
So our kids are going to have a much easier job when they have to clear out our things, but I've told them that if they piss me off too much I'm just going to get more and more stuff...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:46 AM on October 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
So our kids are going to have a much easier job when they have to clear out our things, but I've told them that if they piss me off too much I'm just going to get more and more stuff...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:46 AM on October 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m holding on to certain items (the silver, for instance) because what I really want in my heart of hearts is a “proper” life because I equate it with being safe. I know it’s an illusion, but the pull is strong.
Oh no it me I'm that
In the sense that "clutter" implies things that are in the way, unorganized, overflowing...I actually don't have a lot of clutter. But the key to that is that now I live in a moderately-sized space* with any storage, so that I can keep more than is strictly required for survival without it becoming overwhelming.
I don't like to live at the bleeding edge of minimum, with one plate per person and one mug and three identical clothings. I don't think I'd like it even if it felt "safe" and intentional. But yeah, there's definitely a set of china and some spare linens and extra towels that I keep specifically because of the safety they imply with their abundance. I want to open the door of my home to guests and welcome them into a warm, comfortable environment of plenty. It may be an illusion but it's one that is hard to kill.
*To me this apartment feels like a great hulking infinite ramble of a house but it's really just a two-bed with a dining room and pantry, lol, so pretty "regular" by US standards. Other Chicagoans would know it as Apartment Variation #3: frunchroom edition.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:46 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh no it me I'm that
In the sense that "clutter" implies things that are in the way, unorganized, overflowing...I actually don't have a lot of clutter. But the key to that is that now I live in a moderately-sized space* with any storage, so that I can keep more than is strictly required for survival without it becoming overwhelming.
I don't like to live at the bleeding edge of minimum, with one plate per person and one mug and three identical clothings. I don't think I'd like it even if it felt "safe" and intentional. But yeah, there's definitely a set of china and some spare linens and extra towels that I keep specifically because of the safety they imply with their abundance. I want to open the door of my home to guests and welcome them into a warm, comfortable environment of plenty. It may be an illusion but it's one that is hard to kill.
*To me this apartment feels like a great hulking infinite ramble of a house but it's really just a two-bed with a dining room and pantry, lol, so pretty "regular" by US standards. Other Chicagoans would know it as Apartment Variation #3: frunchroom edition.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:46 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
"The things you like are holding you back! What you should really like is the latest trends of self improvement FOMO!"
I know the article mentions charity, but it's not like House Beautiful is an anti-consumerist collective or anything. They're ultimately selling is aspiration to a 'tasteful' lifestyle which involves buying more stuff.
PS: I would love some mismatched Victorian furniture.
posted by StarkRoads at 10:06 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I know the article mentions charity, but it's not like House Beautiful is an anti-consumerist collective or anything. They're ultimately selling is aspiration to a 'tasteful' lifestyle which involves buying more stuff.
PS: I would love some mismatched Victorian furniture.
posted by StarkRoads at 10:06 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was a minimalist well before Marie came by and one of the things I hate is how we have moralized how much stuff you have. You have emotional issues if you have too much stuff and you will be cleansed if you have the right amount.
I grew up in a household where, if things were out of place or your bed wasn’t made, my mom went to emotional war with you. How many times I was called lazy or a slob when I was very, very neat as a teenage boy. So I grew up throwing nearly everything out as a coping mechanism and had to really work hard to accept a partner and children and their stuff into my life.
But when people visit our house they act like I am some holy grail of not having to worry about stuff when, in actuality, I probably worry more than anyone I know. And I’m not alone among the minimalists - lots are in vary states of panic when unexpected items come into their home because it’s violating their minimalism. It’s no better.
I think rather than exploring the reasons why we have or do not have things the goal should be to find a way to just be fine with your home how it is. I hate it when people say things like “I probably have too many books” because I feel like most of the time that person is feeling judged for their collection whereas, if they were wealthy and had space for a personal library, they would be celebrated for their “collection.” And so it’s yet another way that we shit on poor people for being poor.
If you have a lot of books let me be the first to say I think it’s rad you read a lot. The end.
posted by openhearted at 10:09 AM on October 26, 2023 [37 favorites]
I grew up in a household where, if things were out of place or your bed wasn’t made, my mom went to emotional war with you. How many times I was called lazy or a slob when I was very, very neat as a teenage boy. So I grew up throwing nearly everything out as a coping mechanism and had to really work hard to accept a partner and children and their stuff into my life.
But when people visit our house they act like I am some holy grail of not having to worry about stuff when, in actuality, I probably worry more than anyone I know. And I’m not alone among the minimalists - lots are in vary states of panic when unexpected items come into their home because it’s violating their minimalism. It’s no better.
I think rather than exploring the reasons why we have or do not have things the goal should be to find a way to just be fine with your home how it is. I hate it when people say things like “I probably have too many books” because I feel like most of the time that person is feeling judged for their collection whereas, if they were wealthy and had space for a personal library, they would be celebrated for their “collection.” And so it’s yet another way that we shit on poor people for being poor.
If you have a lot of books let me be the first to say I think it’s rad you read a lot. The end.
posted by openhearted at 10:09 AM on October 26, 2023 [37 favorites]
Open-hearted: thank you for opening my eyes to this perspective, genuinely.
posted by samthemander at 10:13 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 10:13 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Books are emotionally complicated. As a writer and voracious reader, part of my identity has always been Book Person, and full shelves is the clearest (only?) signifier of that, both personally and socially. A house without books? That's like a house with blank walls, or no plants, or no music. Unthinkable. Moving three times in the past seven years has been great for forcibly paring down the collection, but still. It's also a great reminder that books are basically elaborately processed, and correspondingly heavy, chunks of wood.
Books are also a generational thing, kind of like pianos used to be; once almost every household had one; now it's hard to even give them away. Records are on the list too. Between them, my school-age kids have maybe a dozen books between them (hello, emotionally complicated). At least their school still assigns words on paper, but I wonder for how long.
Speaking of generational, my 80-something parents are finally, finally in the process of downsizing, and it's as complicated as I knew it would be. My mother is one of those people for whom almost everything in the house has some kind of personal emotional significance, whether it's a "family heirloom" (another shriveling concept) or not. The winnowing process is happening, but every item has have its story remembered and told before it can be let go. I don't want any of it, honestly, and luckily we'e both come to terms with that. At least it's happening.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:39 AM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Books are also a generational thing, kind of like pianos used to be; once almost every household had one; now it's hard to even give them away. Records are on the list too. Between them, my school-age kids have maybe a dozen books between them (hello, emotionally complicated). At least their school still assigns words on paper, but I wonder for how long.
Speaking of generational, my 80-something parents are finally, finally in the process of downsizing, and it's as complicated as I knew it would be. My mother is one of those people for whom almost everything in the house has some kind of personal emotional significance, whether it's a "family heirloom" (another shriveling concept) or not. The winnowing process is happening, but every item has have its story remembered and told before it can be let go. I don't want any of it, honestly, and luckily we'e both come to terms with that. At least it's happening.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:39 AM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I quit my job and decluttering is one of the main things I've been tackling with this free time. Even with all the hours in the day to work on it, it's extremely hard labor and I don't know when I'll finish.
Growing up, I always felt a great deal of shame about the amount of clutter our household had, and I'd exist in an uneasy balance between wanting to accumulate things like the rest of my family and wanting to hide them away. I've been trying to let go of the moral judgements about clutter and focus on how I've been appreciating the stuff that I've forgotten and how this makes everything so much easier to find.
It's still really hard, though.
posted by Pitachu at 10:49 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
Growing up, I always felt a great deal of shame about the amount of clutter our household had, and I'd exist in an uneasy balance between wanting to accumulate things like the rest of my family and wanting to hide them away. I've been trying to let go of the moral judgements about clutter and focus on how I've been appreciating the stuff that I've forgotten and how this makes everything so much easier to find.
It's still really hard, though.
posted by Pitachu at 10:49 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
word gottabefunky WORD. I keep the books that mean something to me, the ones I know I will reference occasionally, the ones I'll probably re-read. but these last few years (for financial reasons primarily) I have been relying heavily on ebooks from my library app. so I'm not accumulating books very much at all. which is probably a good thing, but then some books, I might just really want them in my life, just in case, right?
posted by supermedusa at 10:50 AM on October 26, 2023
posted by supermedusa at 10:50 AM on October 26, 2023
When I was a young man, I too experienced the emotional violence from my mother against being moderately messy, although I don't believe that I was particularly more messy than any other boy. To say there was emotional warfare would be underplaying it. My memories of childhood are filled with my mother screaming and crying, literally screaming and crying over extended periods, having to do with issues that would not be considered reasonable. (She has never been diagnosed with any mental health issues other than anxiety, despite being assessed by professionals during hospitalizations due to mobility issues.)
Today, over 30 years after I moved out of my childhood house, over 5 years after my father's death, in my mother's house and her house alone by choice, my bedroom, the place where I was subject to so much anger and hatred over anything being out of place, is filled with books. I'm not referring to shelves of books, or even stacks of books, but a giant misshapen sea of discarded books. The floor is not visible. There is no usable space. It is a dumpster of modern hardcovers from the past decade that have been purchased and literally tossed into the space. Most other areas of what was once a normal family home have become literally full of piles of loosely discarded books or clothes.
It is a bizarre repudiation of what, when I was young, would result in tears and hours-long fights of having simply left some of my own books or cassettes or clothes on the floor.
Every time I visit, it creates a panic in me, not only with the practical issues of the increasing mess of her home - which, in the near future, she will need a full-time caregiver to live in due to decreasing mobility and which there is now no place for them to functionally be when they are not actively caring for her - but also the absurd contrast between just how much emotional violence I withstood for what at this point seems to be total nonsense, but where the practical issues of today simply cannot be mentioned without the emotional violence returning.
It wasn't that my mother was merely a neat freak. Or even a control freak. All of the emotional violence had to do with something that... still doesn't make sense, and is becoming uglier with every continuing year.
I am somewhat lucky that my spouse, after cleaning up after their father's death, understood the emotional reactions I had after after decluttering from our last move. We were able to mutually work through our living space to have nice things that all have their place and which all have a purpose. There can be books, or albums, or decorations or things, but they all need to have a chance of being used or appreciated in any given year.
I will inherit my mother's home and I am unbelievably horrified by the prospect. It will be far more work, and dare I say emotional labor, than the actual value from the sale of the property.
posted by i am a puppet featuring socks at 11:01 AM on October 26, 2023 [15 favorites]
Today, over 30 years after I moved out of my childhood house, over 5 years after my father's death, in my mother's house and her house alone by choice, my bedroom, the place where I was subject to so much anger and hatred over anything being out of place, is filled with books. I'm not referring to shelves of books, or even stacks of books, but a giant misshapen sea of discarded books. The floor is not visible. There is no usable space. It is a dumpster of modern hardcovers from the past decade that have been purchased and literally tossed into the space. Most other areas of what was once a normal family home have become literally full of piles of loosely discarded books or clothes.
It is a bizarre repudiation of what, when I was young, would result in tears and hours-long fights of having simply left some of my own books or cassettes or clothes on the floor.
Every time I visit, it creates a panic in me, not only with the practical issues of the increasing mess of her home - which, in the near future, she will need a full-time caregiver to live in due to decreasing mobility and which there is now no place for them to functionally be when they are not actively caring for her - but also the absurd contrast between just how much emotional violence I withstood for what at this point seems to be total nonsense, but where the practical issues of today simply cannot be mentioned without the emotional violence returning.
It wasn't that my mother was merely a neat freak. Or even a control freak. All of the emotional violence had to do with something that... still doesn't make sense, and is becoming uglier with every continuing year.
I am somewhat lucky that my spouse, after cleaning up after their father's death, understood the emotional reactions I had after after decluttering from our last move. We were able to mutually work through our living space to have nice things that all have their place and which all have a purpose. There can be books, or albums, or decorations or things, but they all need to have a chance of being used or appreciated in any given year.
I will inherit my mother's home and I am unbelievably horrified by the prospect. It will be far more work, and dare I say emotional labor, than the actual value from the sale of the property.
posted by i am a puppet featuring socks at 11:01 AM on October 26, 2023 [15 favorites]
This Guardian article is worth a read. The photo scale it mentions offers an objective way to gauge your own situation.
"Given that people have vastly different levels of tolerance, clinicians developed a tool called the Clutter Image Rating as a way to measure the hoard. Used by authorities around the world, the tool consists of photos of a kitchen, a bedroom and a living room. Each is progressively filled with more objects on a scale from one to nine. At level 1, the rooms are fairly empty; the floor is clear with a few items on the surfaces. By level 3, the rooms look messy and items are strewn on the floor. By level 5, clothing, newspapers and rubbish are heaped on the surfaces, and the floor is almost entirely obscured. At level 9, the walls are barely visible."
posted by Paul Slade at 11:12 AM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
"Given that people have vastly different levels of tolerance, clinicians developed a tool called the Clutter Image Rating as a way to measure the hoard. Used by authorities around the world, the tool consists of photos of a kitchen, a bedroom and a living room. Each is progressively filled with more objects on a scale from one to nine. At level 1, the rooms are fairly empty; the floor is clear with a few items on the surfaces. By level 3, the rooms look messy and items are strewn on the floor. By level 5, clothing, newspapers and rubbish are heaped on the surfaces, and the floor is almost entirely obscured. At level 9, the walls are barely visible."
posted by Paul Slade at 11:12 AM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
i am a puppet featuring socks, it sounds like the level of your mother’s emotional violence toward you perhaps reflected what she also needed to direct inward toward herself in order to maintain a respectable house - that is, that there may have been more than a bit of projection there?
posted by eviemath at 11:19 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 11:19 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
It wasn't that my mother was merely a neat freak. Or even a control freak. All of the emotional violence had to do with something that... still doesn't make sense, and is becoming uglier with every continuing year.
Infinite hugs and the catharsis (at least that’s how I feel) of someone who gets it. Even with therapy, getting to a why has been incredibly hard, and the closest I have to one is ugly - she needed someone to bully to avoid dealing with her own self-esteem issues and stuff was just something she could use that she thought was more acceptable than calling us ugly, fat, etc. Even now she comments to my wife how “well trained” I am as a husband which causes me to spiral with rage. As though she should be thanked for it.
posted by openhearted at 11:21 AM on October 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Infinite hugs and the catharsis (at least that’s how I feel) of someone who gets it. Even with therapy, getting to a why has been incredibly hard, and the closest I have to one is ugly - she needed someone to bully to avoid dealing with her own self-esteem issues and stuff was just something she could use that she thought was more acceptable than calling us ugly, fat, etc. Even now she comments to my wife how “well trained” I am as a husband which causes me to spiral with rage. As though she should be thanked for it.
posted by openhearted at 11:21 AM on October 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
I am so sorry, I am a puppet and others who've suffered such terrible emotional abuse. I think that for some people when they feel they can control very few things in their lives, will exert a terrible and damaging control where they can. like anorexics literally starving themselves to death.
I must say that I withdraw all complaints about my husband though. that Clutter Image Rating chart is a horrifying eye opener. we barely get to 2 on any of the photos.
posted by supermedusa at 11:40 AM on October 26, 2023 [6 favorites]
I must say that I withdraw all complaints about my husband though. that Clutter Image Rating chart is a horrifying eye opener. we barely get to 2 on any of the photos.
posted by supermedusa at 11:40 AM on October 26, 2023 [6 favorites]
Clutter Block #4: Fantasy Stuff For My Fantasy Life
I've talked in here a bit about how earlier this year, I gave myself a bit of a spending overhaul. This is 100% the kind of thing I was talking about - I'd do things like see a twee little wicker picnic basket and think "awwwww, fun! I could get that and go on picnics and shit!" And then I'd get the basket and not actually use it. And one day I realized that's what I was doing, and started asking myself "am I trying to buy the picnic basket, or am I trying to buy the picnic? Because I don't need the basket to go on a picnic, I just need to make myself a sandwich and go outside with it."
That kind of "am I buying a thing I need or am I attempting to buy an experience this thing symbolizes" has stopped me dead in my tracks a whole hell of a lot lately.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:42 AM on October 26, 2023 [29 favorites]
I've talked in here a bit about how earlier this year, I gave myself a bit of a spending overhaul. This is 100% the kind of thing I was talking about - I'd do things like see a twee little wicker picnic basket and think "awwwww, fun! I could get that and go on picnics and shit!" And then I'd get the basket and not actually use it. And one day I realized that's what I was doing, and started asking myself "am I trying to buy the picnic basket, or am I trying to buy the picnic? Because I don't need the basket to go on a picnic, I just need to make myself a sandwich and go outside with it."
That kind of "am I buying a thing I need or am I attempting to buy an experience this thing symbolizes" has stopped me dead in my tracks a whole hell of a lot lately.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:42 AM on October 26, 2023 [29 favorites]
I appreciated taquito sunrise's comment on how this topic (clutter) hits us in different places. I posted it because I am actively unhappy with how much stuff I have because it makes things harder for me* and because shopping (usually thrift stores, but still) is a tactic I use to "fix" my life that actually doesn't fix most things. Sometimes shopping is totally necessary! I needed a good rain coat and waterproof sneakers! But I am so worried about my aging parents that I panic-bought a bunch of items recommended by Equip Me OT and that are just sitting in my closet. I miss hanging out with my LA friends and their kids so I got a bunch of board games from the Goodwill even though their visit has already happened.
I read it as helpful insights on why I am so reluctant to part with certain items I never use, and prompts for figuring out whether I actually do want to part with them! I do not read this advice to declutter as a moral imperative to have x number of objects and for minimalism to reign. Marie Kondo, even, says that if you have lots of things that spark joy, then keep them! There's no rule that you can only have 100 items that spark joy and the 101st you must chuck in the trash.
*I have newspaper clippings from THREE CITIES AGO. I probably have hybrid silverfish from Honolulu and LA now having more hybrid silverfish babies here in Portland. I spent an hour looking for the rechargeable battery charger yesterday because I have a broken Lite Brite (ok so I'm still hanging onto that in case I can figure out how to fix it).
posted by spamandkimchi at 11:59 AM on October 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
I read it as helpful insights on why I am so reluctant to part with certain items I never use, and prompts for figuring out whether I actually do want to part with them! I do not read this advice to declutter as a moral imperative to have x number of objects and for minimalism to reign. Marie Kondo, even, says that if you have lots of things that spark joy, then keep them! There's no rule that you can only have 100 items that spark joy and the 101st you must chuck in the trash.
*I have newspaper clippings from THREE CITIES AGO. I probably have hybrid silverfish from Honolulu and LA now having more hybrid silverfish babies here in Portland. I spent an hour looking for the rechargeable battery charger yesterday because I have a broken Lite Brite (ok so I'm still hanging onto that in case I can figure out how to fix it).
posted by spamandkimchi at 11:59 AM on October 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
Decision exhaustion.
posted by Goofyy at 12:53 PM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Goofyy at 12:53 PM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
I’m holding on to certain items (the silver, for instance) because what I really want in my heart of hearts is a “proper” life because I equate it with being safe. I know it’s an illusion, but the pull is strong.
I moved into my own apartment after leaving a 29-year relationship a year ago (October 12, 2022). I was pretty broke, so I furnished the place with hand-me-downs from friends and finds on Facebook Marketplace. I kept finding myself drawn to, like, a set of interesting plates and cups someone was selling for twenty bucks, and I now have small numbers of several types I like a lot, plus a couple of neat tea pots, and a sugar/creamer set I'm very fond of.
I've never been much into dishes, of all things, but found myself really loving them. I eventually figured out that part of why I'm drawn to these cute sets of 2 or 4 leftover luncheon plates and matching cups is that I have a fantasy of entertaining people. Nothing fancy, I'm not a cook, but, like, tea and cookies. I haven't done it yet—I live with a chaotic 16-year-old and it's hard to get things to stay in shape long enough to have a couple of friends over. But realizing that it reflected a really deep yearning to make a home and have friends in it was important for me. A piece of healing after the horror show that was the final few years of my relationship.
posted by Well I never at 12:54 PM on October 26, 2023 [9 favorites]
Yes, Goofyy, decision exhaustion! Even once I decide to get rid of a thing - do I know someone who could use it? Do I have enough give-away items to make it worth a trip to the thrift store? Do I have a box to take the things in? Do they need repaired first, or cleaned? Too worn out for donation, then what do I do? Maybe keep them for a craft project? (I have a bunch of worn out or stained Tshirts that I'd like to make into rag rugs at some point.) Or just junk it, adding to the landfills? Easier to shove the random items back into the cupboard or drawer where they came from, worry about it another day.
posted by dorey_oh at 2:08 PM on October 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by dorey_oh at 2:08 PM on October 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
8. I don't have the energy to deal with it and I'm just too lazy.
posted by mike3k at 3:16 PM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mike3k at 3:16 PM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
9. In between lives, not being able to imagine what I'll need going forward.
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:42 PM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:42 PM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Do I have enough give-away items to make it worth a trip to the thrift store? Do I have a box to take the things in? Do they need repaired first, or cleaned? Too worn out for donation, then what do I do? Maybe keep them for a craft project?
Ugh, yes, I feel all of that. It's exhausting.
However! This one: (I have a bunch of worn out or stained Tshirts that I'd like to make into rag rugs at some point.) This one I think I've vanquished. Worn out clothes no longer pile up and cause me pain. They have a long, long retirement in my house because I cut them up and use them for anything I'd otherwise use paper for. So coffee filters, rags, handkerchiefs. (Strongly recommend that last for best new job for old T-shirts: cotton knit is a thousand times kinder to the nose than even the softest available lotion-infused paper tissue. I used to get painful raw chapping every time I got a cold from the woodpulp in my Puffs tearing up my poor nose. Since I switched to cloth, it has never happened again.)
This way you use few to no disposable paper things besides TP. You drag less stuff home from the store, spend nothing, and send much less to the landfill. After years of use when the former T-shirts are truly wretched and destined for the trash, you can use them one last time to wipe grease off dishes and pots before handwashing or putting them into into the dishwasher. You then throw the greasy rag away and keep fat from clogging your dishwasher filter and your pipes and, eventually, contributing to a fatberg.
The best part for me is that the realization that used to happen the instant I turned the car off after a trip to the store, namely, "O crap, I forgot to get filters/paper towels agaaaain" now never happens. I have a dedicated basket in the kitchen for all the kitchen cloth--dishtowels, dish/counter rags, napkins, coffee filters. When I start running low on anything, I throw all the kitchen stuff in the washer and in an hour or two, I'm replete again.
To make coffee filters you cut a generous square and put it in the filter basket as you would a paper filter. If part of it it sticks up above the basket, fold the extra bits down and tuck them into the basket. Also, I think woven is probably better than knit for filters. Knit tends to clog. The best I have are made from this really tight-weave dress shirt that I stupidly cut the French cuffs off of to make face masks with in the early panicky days of the pandemic and thus ruined. The masks didn't work at all, of course, but it's great filter cloth, and this makes me feel less depressed about having ruined a perfectly good shirt.
NOTE!!! If you do the re-usable coffee filter thing, do NOOOOOT rinse coffee grounds down the drain. No, not even a few. What was the point of all that scrupulous plate wiping to catch every scrap of grease if I was just going to fill the pipes with coffee sludge, I asked myself after writing the massive check to the plumber. Now I rinse them into a bowl or a pot and then water trees and plants with the grounds-ey water.
I'll just say one thing more about ways to use old clothes without having to craft anything: boyfriend's old oxford shirt plus a tension rod = charming (okay, more like "charming") cafe curtain for a smallish kitchen window. You run the rod through both sleeves and spread out the shirt. Et voila. I've also used aprons as curtains. You can put things in the pockets for added utility and even more of that "charm."
posted by Don Pepino at 4:39 PM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
Ugh, yes, I feel all of that. It's exhausting.
However! This one: (I have a bunch of worn out or stained Tshirts that I'd like to make into rag rugs at some point.) This one I think I've vanquished. Worn out clothes no longer pile up and cause me pain. They have a long, long retirement in my house because I cut them up and use them for anything I'd otherwise use paper for. So coffee filters, rags, handkerchiefs. (Strongly recommend that last for best new job for old T-shirts: cotton knit is a thousand times kinder to the nose than even the softest available lotion-infused paper tissue. I used to get painful raw chapping every time I got a cold from the woodpulp in my Puffs tearing up my poor nose. Since I switched to cloth, it has never happened again.)
This way you use few to no disposable paper things besides TP. You drag less stuff home from the store, spend nothing, and send much less to the landfill. After years of use when the former T-shirts are truly wretched and destined for the trash, you can use them one last time to wipe grease off dishes and pots before handwashing or putting them into into the dishwasher. You then throw the greasy rag away and keep fat from clogging your dishwasher filter and your pipes and, eventually, contributing to a fatberg.
The best part for me is that the realization that used to happen the instant I turned the car off after a trip to the store, namely, "O crap, I forgot to get filters/paper towels agaaaain" now never happens. I have a dedicated basket in the kitchen for all the kitchen cloth--dishtowels, dish/counter rags, napkins, coffee filters. When I start running low on anything, I throw all the kitchen stuff in the washer and in an hour or two, I'm replete again.
To make coffee filters you cut a generous square and put it in the filter basket as you would a paper filter. If part of it it sticks up above the basket, fold the extra bits down and tuck them into the basket. Also, I think woven is probably better than knit for filters. Knit tends to clog. The best I have are made from this really tight-weave dress shirt that I stupidly cut the French cuffs off of to make face masks with in the early panicky days of the pandemic and thus ruined. The masks didn't work at all, of course, but it's great filter cloth, and this makes me feel less depressed about having ruined a perfectly good shirt.
NOTE!!! If you do the re-usable coffee filter thing, do NOOOOOT rinse coffee grounds down the drain. No, not even a few. What was the point of all that scrupulous plate wiping to catch every scrap of grease if I was just going to fill the pipes with coffee sludge, I asked myself after writing the massive check to the plumber. Now I rinse them into a bowl or a pot and then water trees and plants with the grounds-ey water.
I'll just say one thing more about ways to use old clothes without having to craft anything: boyfriend's old oxford shirt plus a tension rod = charming (okay, more like "charming") cafe curtain for a smallish kitchen window. You run the rod through both sleeves and spread out the shirt. Et voila. I've also used aprons as curtains. You can put things in the pockets for added utility and even more of that "charm."
posted by Don Pepino at 4:39 PM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
See, I have a hobby I've had my entire life (painting gaming minis).
I'm in this picture and I'm resigned to it. I feel like my current goal is to make a place to paint with storage for half-finished/drying minis that's cat-safe. Because of my chronic illness I need to be able to start and stop without kitty assistance.
This will require decluttering to make room, though.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 5:36 PM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm in this picture and I'm resigned to it. I feel like my current goal is to make a place to paint with storage for half-finished/drying minis that's cat-safe. Because of my chronic illness I need to be able to start and stop without kitty assistance.
This will require decluttering to make room, though.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 5:36 PM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Its shocking difficult to get rid of basic trash in our city now.
This is true in my city too.
I don't have much attachment to the value of the things I want to get rid of. I don't care if they go to a "good home" or not - I would be happy to throw them away. I have no illusions about their value justifying holding on to them for so long. But how to get rid of them?
Anyway, I'm commenting mostly to share an aggravating story (luckily it didn't happen to me). My city has been attempting "community clean-up" days, where the main attraction is that they park a dumpster in a neighborhood for a couple of days, inviting the neighborhood to use it. Well, they did that in my neighborhood a few weeks ago. I'm not sure what the reason is, maybe it's to cut down on illegal dumping of all this trash we no longer have a way to easily get rid of legally?
The dumpster was overflowing with this awkward trash by the afternoon. People started piling their trash up next to it, on my neighbor's lawn. (I didn't even get to use it.)
Then the city hauled the dumpster away, leaving all the trash on the lawn.
... my poor neighbor. So maybe we should add #5: The city encouraged all my neighbors to give me THEIR clutter.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 5:42 PM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is true in my city too.
I don't have much attachment to the value of the things I want to get rid of. I don't care if they go to a "good home" or not - I would be happy to throw them away. I have no illusions about their value justifying holding on to them for so long. But how to get rid of them?
Anyway, I'm commenting mostly to share an aggravating story (luckily it didn't happen to me). My city has been attempting "community clean-up" days, where the main attraction is that they park a dumpster in a neighborhood for a couple of days, inviting the neighborhood to use it. Well, they did that in my neighborhood a few weeks ago. I'm not sure what the reason is, maybe it's to cut down on illegal dumping of all this trash we no longer have a way to easily get rid of legally?
The dumpster was overflowing with this awkward trash by the afternoon. People started piling their trash up next to it, on my neighbor's lawn. (I didn't even get to use it.)
Then the city hauled the dumpster away, leaving all the trash on the lawn.
... my poor neighbor. So maybe we should add #5: The city encouraged all my neighbors to give me THEIR clutter.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 5:42 PM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just keep telling myself that my sculptural style is bricolage, and maybe someday it will be true.
posted by ovvl at 8:41 AM on October 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 8:41 AM on October 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Mod note: [btw, taquito sunrise's comment and this post have been added to the sidebar and Best Of blog.]
posted by taz (staff) at 1:56 AM on October 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 1:56 AM on October 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
nobody wants your used books
My friend is a book scout. Last week he found a hardcover book about the history of Mennonite settlement in the Midwest, and it sold for US$270 on Ebai. Maybe it's ok to give your books to a thrift store, because there are people willing to sift through all that stuff and find the gems.
posted by sneebler at 7:21 AM on October 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
My friend is a book scout. Last week he found a hardcover book about the history of Mennonite settlement in the Midwest, and it sold for US$270 on Ebai. Maybe it's ok to give your books to a thrift store, because there are people willing to sift through all that stuff and find the gems.
posted by sneebler at 7:21 AM on October 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
It used to be that if you were well off your could afford to put down roots and collect nice stuff. You need stability to have really nice stuff, the stuff that is not only worth handing down to your descendants but stuff that they will treasure because it either has a meaningful history or it is well neigh indestructible.
But right now the the middle class is rapidly becoming too poor and to unstable to keep stuff. I see a lot of people whose benchmark for what to keep or not keep is if they would and could take it with them during a single handed cross country move. If they can heave it in the back of a hatchback it might be worth keeping, but only if it deserves the space more than any of their other possessions.
Meanwhile the decorator sites are showing a stainless steel - black metal austere aesthetic. They are clearly saying neither comfort nor conspicuous consumption is for ordinary people.
The austere, clutter free homes are good when you work too many hours - you don't have time to maintain your stuff. Just like those enormous sets of china and huge dark wood dining room tables that the boomers inherited from their parents and now can't get rid of, no one has the time or lifestyle to have a house full of stuff, anymore than they are throwing dinner parties. Can you imagine ironing linen, or polishing silver, or oiling leather?
I constantly hear the advice to get rid of books and instead just use an e-reader. It's very practical if you can get the books you want as e-books - I've had very little luck with that myself - and if your books don't get wiped from the reader because the terms and conditions allow some corporation to wipe them from your collection.
We need to get rid of clutter because we can't afford to keep it. That panics some people into getting more clutter, while others concentrate on becoming more agile and are terrified their stuff will burden them. It all looks like poverty to me, both the hoarding and the purging.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:30 AM on October 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
But right now the the middle class is rapidly becoming too poor and to unstable to keep stuff. I see a lot of people whose benchmark for what to keep or not keep is if they would and could take it with them during a single handed cross country move. If they can heave it in the back of a hatchback it might be worth keeping, but only if it deserves the space more than any of their other possessions.
Meanwhile the decorator sites are showing a stainless steel - black metal austere aesthetic. They are clearly saying neither comfort nor conspicuous consumption is for ordinary people.
The austere, clutter free homes are good when you work too many hours - you don't have time to maintain your stuff. Just like those enormous sets of china and huge dark wood dining room tables that the boomers inherited from their parents and now can't get rid of, no one has the time or lifestyle to have a house full of stuff, anymore than they are throwing dinner parties. Can you imagine ironing linen, or polishing silver, or oiling leather?
I constantly hear the advice to get rid of books and instead just use an e-reader. It's very practical if you can get the books you want as e-books - I've had very little luck with that myself - and if your books don't get wiped from the reader because the terms and conditions allow some corporation to wipe them from your collection.
We need to get rid of clutter because we can't afford to keep it. That panics some people into getting more clutter, while others concentrate on becoming more agile and are terrified their stuff will burden them. It all looks like poverty to me, both the hoarding and the purging.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:30 AM on October 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
If you think your books may be valuable it's easy to install a book scanner app on your phone and check. Some of them will directly create Amazon listings for you.
(Don't use these to front-run used book store inventory.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:19 AM on October 28, 2023
(Don't use these to front-run used book store inventory.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:19 AM on October 28, 2023
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posted by potrzebie at 8:06 PM on October 25, 2023 [50 favorites]