Above The Public.
February 6, 2024 12:53 PM Subscribe
Taylor Swift threatens legal action against student who tracks her jet. Jack Sweeney — who irked Elon Musk by sharing public flight data — recently posted about the environmental impact of travel tied to the Eras tour and Swift's relationship with Travis Kelce.
Taylor Swift’s lawyers sent a cease and desist letter to a college student who uses public flight data to track private jet usage, suggesting his social media accounts were aiding Swift’s stalkers and threatening her safety.
gated story at wapo.
direct and irreparable harm
Really? Irreparable harm? The only irreparable harm I see here is what it does to my opinion of her to do things like this. The dig about the valuable items is especially dirty.
posted by Audreynachrome at 1:10 PM on February 6 [9 favorites]
Really? Irreparable harm? The only irreparable harm I see here is what it does to my opinion of her to do things like this. The dig about the valuable items is especially dirty.
posted by Audreynachrome at 1:10 PM on February 6 [9 favorites]
my opinion of people who bitch about the tracking of their private jets using public data is significantly lower than my opinion of people who use private jets
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:13 PM on February 6 [66 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:13 PM on February 6 [66 favorites]
Dangit.
posted by tigrrrlily at 1:15 PM on February 6
posted by tigrrrlily at 1:15 PM on February 6
oof
if you are being compared with Elon Musk, you are doing it wrong
posted by elkevelvet at 1:18 PM on February 6 [35 favorites]
if you are being compared with Elon Musk, you are doing it wrong
posted by elkevelvet at 1:18 PM on February 6 [35 favorites]
I love the "well NOW I hope the right-wing destroys her" comments on the Verge article.
We can always count on misogynistic men to make a shitty situation even shittier.
posted by tigrrrlily at 1:19 PM on February 6 [24 favorites]
We can always count on misogynistic men to make a shitty situation even shittier.
posted by tigrrrlily at 1:19 PM on February 6 [24 favorites]
I look forward to the measured misogyny couched in coolness takes I will witness with this news.
posted by Kitteh at 1:25 PM on February 6 [13 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 1:25 PM on February 6 [13 favorites]
The jet's tail number is N898TS includes 89, a reference to 1989 and TS her initials, so it is not exactly top secret.
posted by Lanark at 1:26 PM on February 6 [9 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 1:26 PM on February 6 [9 favorites]
Funny, I was just looking at FlightRadar to see which plane was flying over my house. Because ADS-B data is public, even for N898TS.
posted by swift at 1:27 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
posted by swift at 1:27 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
If I was Tay Tay I'd rent a few more jets and fly them around the country constantly for a few months, leaving people to guess which one I'm on. Let's see the carbon footprint on THAT mother.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:36 PM on February 6 [8 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:36 PM on February 6 [8 favorites]
The public nature of a airplane's location follows directly from the way airplanes use public airspace, public air traffic control, and public airports. It's an important principle of US law. Elon Musk was wrong when he opposed it and so is Taylor Swift.
It is legal and possible to fly untrackably in the US if you use uncontrolled airports and avoid air traffic control. It's effectively impractical for a large or fast airplane though.
posted by Nelson at 1:36 PM on February 6 [53 favorites]
It is legal and possible to fly untrackably in the US if you use uncontrolled airports and avoid air traffic control. It's effectively impractical for a large or fast airplane though.
posted by Nelson at 1:36 PM on February 6 [53 favorites]
There is also nothing stopping a billionaire from using chartered flight services rather than their own personal jet.
posted by tclark at 1:42 PM on February 6 [64 favorites]
posted by tclark at 1:42 PM on February 6 [64 favorites]
Ooooh, and she was having such a great week, too.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 1:42 PM on February 6 [4 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 1:42 PM on February 6 [4 favorites]
My comment on Mastodon, I will cut and paste here:
Obviously the solution for Jack Sweeney being taken to task for tracking celebrity private jets is for a shit-ton more people to start tracking and posting the locations of celebrity private jets. It's public information, and they want to rely on security through obscurity.
Don't want your travels tracked? Don't travel on a vehicle that is required by law to be publicly tracked.
posted by hippybear at 1:47 PM on February 6 [36 favorites]
Obviously the solution for Jack Sweeney being taken to task for tracking celebrity private jets is for a shit-ton more people to start tracking and posting the locations of celebrity private jets. It's public information, and they want to rely on security through obscurity.
Don't want your travels tracked? Don't travel on a vehicle that is required by law to be publicly tracked.
posted by hippybear at 1:47 PM on February 6 [36 favorites]
Or just turn off the transponder and see how that goes.
posted by swift at 1:48 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
posted by swift at 1:48 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
On flight tracking, my grown up daughters were flying home from Scotland on the day Storm Isha was scattering flights all across NW Europe in January. They were very late boarding and then sat on the tarmac for 2.5 hours, Ryanair was wholly uninformative, so I thought I'd check where the plane was. The teeny icon tried twice with go-round before finally getting to ground. Note to self: DO NOT DO THIS EVER AGAIN.
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:51 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:51 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
Or just turn the transponder off and see how that goes.
posted by swift
contextually eponysterical?
posted by busted_crayons at 1:51 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
posted by swift
contextually eponysterical?
posted by busted_crayons at 1:51 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
If I was Tay Tay I'd rent a few more jets
I'm pretty sure Taylor, Elon and all the other billionaires, rent their jets to each other on a pretty regular basis, these lawsuits are probably just a feint to make people think they only ever travel in that one jet.
posted by Lanark at 1:54 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure Taylor, Elon and all the other billionaires, rent their jets to each other on a pretty regular basis, these lawsuits are probably just a feint to make people think they only ever travel in that one jet.
posted by Lanark at 1:54 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
> I look forward to the measured misogyny couched in coolness takes I will witness with this news.
as do i to the fans' emphatic insistence that it's ok, necessary even, when Taylor does it
posted by glonous keming at 1:59 PM on February 6 [33 favorites]
as do i to the fans' emphatic insistence that it's ok, necessary even, when Taylor does it
posted by glonous keming at 1:59 PM on February 6 [33 favorites]
Clearly the only legal solution for her is decoy jets.
posted by mattgriffin at 2:06 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
posted by mattgriffin at 2:06 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
There is also nothing stopping a billionaire from using chartered flight services rather than their own personal jet.
I'm fairly certain that chartered flights are required to register the people on their plane with the FCC in some way. I am not sure how real-time this is required to be made public, but it is difficult to fly from major airport to major airport without it being recorded in some way. Because even if that small jet goes down, we, as a collective/government, want to know who is on it.
posted by hippybear at 2:07 PM on February 6
I'm fairly certain that chartered flights are required to register the people on their plane with the FCC in some way. I am not sure how real-time this is required to be made public, but it is difficult to fly from major airport to major airport without it being recorded in some way. Because even if that small jet goes down, we, as a collective/government, want to know who is on it.
posted by hippybear at 2:07 PM on February 6
Who cares? It's probably a plan to get the extreme Left to dislike her because of her carbon footprint.
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:08 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:08 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
I was expecting it to be larger than "12 seats". File photo (8yrs old)
posted by achrise at 2:10 PM on February 6
posted by achrise at 2:10 PM on February 6
N898TS was apparently sold on Jan 30th and is pending registration to the new owner ("S A T A LLC" was the holding company when she owned it). She owns a second jet (N621MM) and that's switching ownership too. These complaints are probably just cover while she moves stuff around.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:11 PM on February 6
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:11 PM on February 6
It's probably a plan to get the extreme Left to dislike her because of her carbon footprint.
So, either you believe this is Swift herself threatening legal action, or you believe this is a conspiracy theory that is reporting that Swift is threatening legal action to achieve a political end.
I mean, like, you're trying to invent a left version of QAnon? Because that's what you're trying to do here.
posted by hippybear at 2:11 PM on February 6 [11 favorites]
So, either you believe this is Swift herself threatening legal action, or you believe this is a conspiracy theory that is reporting that Swift is threatening legal action to achieve a political end.
I mean, like, you're trying to invent a left version of QAnon? Because that's what you're trying to do here.
posted by hippybear at 2:11 PM on February 6 [11 favorites]
Don't want your travels tracked? Don't travel on a vehicle that is required by law to be publicly tracked.
yep. After the Musk thing, I set up one of my RPi to send in data.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:12 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
yep. After the Musk thing, I set up one of my RPi to send in data.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:12 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
Kudos to Ms. Swift for testing the boundary conditions of the Streisand effect.
posted by stevis23 at 2:13 PM on February 6 [41 favorites]
posted by stevis23 at 2:13 PM on February 6 [41 favorites]
I'm fairly certain that chartered flights are required to register the people on their plane with the FCC in some way.
Passenger manifests are not public information. The plane, it's identifier, and its location are basically all that's available on a real-time basis. You may be able to infer whether someone is on the plane or not (i.e. a flight going from the city of one show to the city of the next show), but that's about it.
posted by tclark at 2:14 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
Passenger manifests are not public information. The plane, it's identifier, and its location are basically all that's available on a real-time basis. You may be able to infer whether someone is on the plane or not (i.e. a flight going from the city of one show to the city of the next show), but that's about it.
posted by tclark at 2:14 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
If she is embarrassed about having a carbon footprint the size of Anguilla, has she considered simply not doing that
posted by ZaphodB at 2:15 PM on February 6 [29 favorites]
posted by ZaphodB at 2:15 PM on February 6 [29 favorites]
Don't want your travels tracked? Don't travel on a vehicle that is required by law to be publicly tracked.
It truly is this simple.
Public data is public data. I can't imagine how she wins this.
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:16 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
It truly is this simple.
Public data is public data. I can't imagine how she wins this.
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:16 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
I dunno. Given how boiled-up the right has gotten over her, I can easily imagine this is a security response to some sort of threat (real/implied/whatever), rather than a Musk-level bit of ego-rant. Either way, this is nothingburger, as is the whole environmental-impact-grar.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:16 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:16 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
So, either you believe this is Swift herself threatening legal action, or you believe this is a conspiracy theory that is reporting that Swift is threatening legal action to achieve a political end.
I mean, like, you're trying to invent a left version of QAnon? Because that's what you're trying to do here.
Jeez. Lighten up. The conspiracy part was joke. But I was serious when I said .. "Who cares?"
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:17 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
I mean, like, you're trying to invent a left version of QAnon? Because that's what you're trying to do here.
Jeez. Lighten up. The conspiracy part was joke. But I was serious when I said .. "Who cares?"
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:17 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
The article says the legal team have been quoted saying that Taylor loans out her jet to other people, so that might be exactly what's going on. Not that it's really possible to verify it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.
I do wonder how much outrage there would be if there was more coverage of how many airlines fly empty planes around to cover their costs or for obscure accounting reasons. I was reading the other day about the Saudi princes who fly their hunting hawks and horses around on their own private jets. Not saying that Taylor should be excused but it feels like the whole industry should be scrutinised for the amount of time spent on one pop star.
posted by fight or flight at 2:18 PM on February 6 [18 favorites]
I do wonder how much outrage there would be if there was more coverage of how many airlines fly empty planes around to cover their costs or for obscure accounting reasons. I was reading the other day about the Saudi princes who fly their hunting hawks and horses around on their own private jets. Not saying that Taylor should be excused but it feels like the whole industry should be scrutinised for the amount of time spent on one pop star.
posted by fight or flight at 2:18 PM on February 6 [18 favorites]
she is in her privacy era
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:19 PM on February 6 [13 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:19 PM on February 6 [13 favorites]
I can't help but think that that with all the flying in the world picking on Taylor Swift seems a bit targeted. How much crap gets put in the air by NFL related travel?
posted by cccorlew at 2:33 PM on February 6 [20 favorites]
posted by cccorlew at 2:33 PM on February 6 [20 favorites]
At least she didn't use the phase "assassination coordinates", so that makes her marginally better than Elon Musk.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 2:39 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 2:39 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
I do think, in the mildest defense of being annoyed that someone is tracking your private jet as possible, that we are generally very happy to do our darndest to get our own PII out of the public space as possible. The idea that once we had phone books is used to scare twenty-somethings, and services that bulk aggregate public data for non-consensual are usually targeted with opprobrium and the understanding that actually, it’s what is legal to scrape that’s the crime. We have a very schizoid relationship to privacy, and -not having RTFA’d- I kind of doubt that Jack Sweeney really cares about where Taylor Swift is flying. This isn’t about Taylor Swift’s location at all: it’s about her owning a private jet. Being shamed for using a private jet is good, because private jets are bad. But it seems like the only way e get to have a public kerfuffle about the merits of private jets is by wrapping them in a celebrity blowing up about their movements being tracked.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:39 PM on February 6 [8 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 2:39 PM on February 6 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I was curious and looked up this report about "ghost flights":
posted by fight or flight at 2:39 PM on February 6 [22 favorites]
A new report by the Guardian, based on a freedom of information request, found that at the end of last year there were around 500 “ghost flights” departing from the UK per month.And that's just one airline in Europe. Yikes.
And in January 2022, analysis from Greenpeace claimed that more than 100,000 “ghost flights” would sail over European skies this winter. The climate damage, claims the environmental group, is “equivalent to the yearly emissions of more than 1.4 million cars.”
The Greenpeace figures were extrapolated from a December interview with Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr in which he warned that Lufthansa Group was facing the prospect of 18,000 superfluous flights over the six-month winter season to retain its slots under European rules.
On the basis that Lufthansa’s air traffic accounts for 17% of the European market, Greenpeace reckons the total number of Europe’s ghost flights would generate 2.1 million tonnes of CO2.
posted by fight or flight at 2:39 PM on February 6 [22 favorites]
People hate Elon Musk so much that they’ve ignored the realities of stalkers and paparazzi harassment.
posted by interogative mood at 2:43 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 2:43 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
I'm TS agnostic at best but this definitely feels, as the kids say, "sus." There are so many celebrities of all kinds using private jets constantly so what is noteworthy about Taylor Swift? Has she publicly made some sort of declaration about climate change and air travel ala Greta Thunberg (a GOAT) and is being shown as hypocritical? Where are the other famous actors and musicians who do this as well in this data tracking? F'rex, is this guy also going after all the people who traveled to and from the Super Bowl last year by private jet? What makes Taylor Swift so special, and not say, CEOs of companies or other famous people?
I made a comment about misogyny earlier in that it feels targeted towards a successful woman. You can target her, sure, but you should also be including A LOT more perpretators. There should be data on many more people, not just Swift.
posted by Kitteh at 2:46 PM on February 6 [22 favorites]
I made a comment about misogyny earlier in that it feels targeted towards a successful woman. You can target her, sure, but you should also be including A LOT more perpretators. There should be data on many more people, not just Swift.
posted by Kitteh at 2:46 PM on February 6 [22 favorites]
The world's richest man Bernard Arnault sold his private jet because "tracking the aircraft was actually giving competitors an edge" so now "[he rents] planes whenever he’s flying". Taylor Swift could rent jets too if she wants privacy.
I doubt Arnault's carbon emissions declined much, but who knows maybe sometimes only smaller jets are available or maybe a rental jet ask if they can fly another privacy minded billionaire along too.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:46 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
I doubt Arnault's carbon emissions declined much, but who knows maybe sometimes only smaller jets are available or maybe a rental jet ask if they can fly another privacy minded billionaire along too.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:46 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
My guess is that saying "Taylor Swift" in this case is kind of a metonym. She's an empire and lawyers are going to lawyer. I seriously doubt the actual human being Taylor Swift sat up at night fuming about it and got her lawyers on the case first thing in the morning
posted by treepour at 2:54 PM on February 6 [13 favorites]
posted by treepour at 2:54 PM on February 6 [13 favorites]
There are so many celebrities of all kinds using private jets constantly so what is noteworthy about Taylor Swift?
I mean, she's incredibly famous. If you wanted to make a point about carbon emissions from private jets, you'd find a celebrity who a) flies around a lot on their private jet and b) is as famous as possible. Hard to see how you'd find a better example other than perhaps Elon Musk.
posted by ssg at 2:54 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
I mean, she's incredibly famous. If you wanted to make a point about carbon emissions from private jets, you'd find a celebrity who a) flies around a lot on their private jet and b) is as famous as possible. Hard to see how you'd find a better example other than perhaps Elon Musk.
posted by ssg at 2:54 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
Just Plane Wrong: Celebs with the Worst Private Jet Co2 Emissions. This is the report from 2022 that Rolling Stone said was part of the motivation for Swift's team wanting to conceal her private plane usage. It's not at all Taylor Swift specific except that she's at the top of the list because, well, her plane flies more.
Top 10: Taylor Swift, Floyd Mayweather, Jay-Z, A-Rod, Blake Shelton, Steven Spielberg, Kim Kardashian, Mark Wahlberg, Oprah Winfrey, and Travis Scott.
The list feels fairly random to me. I suspect it's selective because they're only tallying people that own planes we know about. I imagine many celebrities fly an enormous number of hours on charter jets or owned via companies we don't know. Harder to track, similar climate impact.
The idea that tracking a plane means a major safety threat to the celebrity is overblown. Yes, tracking the plane gives you an idea that a celebrity might be landing at an airport at a specific time. But that's pretty limited information. Also if you're Musk/Swift level famous you have multiple layers of security and people guessing where you are all the time.
I wonder if there's a similar tracking report for the AIS transponders of celebrity yachts? Here's a report that Bezos ugly megayacht emits 7200 tons of CO2 a year. And that's got sails! For comparison, Swift's jet is pegged at 3000 or 8300 depending on which counting method you look at.
Here's a broader report on celebrity climate impact looking at their various ridiculous houses, boats, planes, etc.
posted by Nelson at 2:55 PM on February 6 [24 favorites]
Top 10: Taylor Swift, Floyd Mayweather, Jay-Z, A-Rod, Blake Shelton, Steven Spielberg, Kim Kardashian, Mark Wahlberg, Oprah Winfrey, and Travis Scott.
The list feels fairly random to me. I suspect it's selective because they're only tallying people that own planes we know about. I imagine many celebrities fly an enormous number of hours on charter jets or owned via companies we don't know. Harder to track, similar climate impact.
The idea that tracking a plane means a major safety threat to the celebrity is overblown. Yes, tracking the plane gives you an idea that a celebrity might be landing at an airport at a specific time. But that's pretty limited information. Also if you're Musk/Swift level famous you have multiple layers of security and people guessing where you are all the time.
I wonder if there's a similar tracking report for the AIS transponders of celebrity yachts? Here's a report that Bezos ugly megayacht emits 7200 tons of CO2 a year. And that's got sails! For comparison, Swift's jet is pegged at 3000 or 8300 depending on which counting method you look at.
Here's a broader report on celebrity climate impact looking at their various ridiculous houses, boats, planes, etc.
posted by Nelson at 2:55 PM on February 6 [24 favorites]
I made a comment about misogyny earlier in that it feels targeted towards a successful woman. You can target her, sure, but you should also be including A LOT more perpretators. There should be data on many more people, not just Swift.
That's exactly what this guy is doing.
From TFA:
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on February 6 [52 favorites]
That's exactly what this guy is doing.
From TFA:
Jack Sweeney, a junior at the University of Central Florida, has for years run accounts that log the takeoffs and landings of planes and helicopters owned by hundreds of billionaires, politicians, Russian oligarchs and other public figures, along with estimates of their planet-warming emissions. The accounts use publicly available data from the Federal Aviation Administration and volunteer hobbyists who can track the aircraft via the signals they broadcastThe real question is...what's so special about Taylor Swift and Elon Musk that justifies them siccing their high priced lawyers on this guy for doing something that's (ostensibly) perfectly legal?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on February 6 [52 favorites]
There should be data on many more people, not just Swift.
So here's Sweeney's actual website. It has special buttons for Elon, the original, and Swift, but also for traffick aggregating.
I have not dug deeply into this at all, but he definitely started out with Musk and then added Swift later, so this isn't about misogyny, it's about jets.
posted by hippybear at 2:57 PM on February 6 [27 favorites]
So here's Sweeney's actual website. It has special buttons for Elon, the original, and Swift, but also for traffick aggregating.
I have not dug deeply into this at all, but he definitely started out with Musk and then added Swift later, so this isn't about misogyny, it's about jets.
posted by hippybear at 2:57 PM on February 6 [27 favorites]
Where are the other famous actors and musicians who do this as well in this data tracking? F'rex, is this guy also going after all the people who traveled to and from the Super Bowl last year by private jet? What makes Taylor Swift so special, and not say, CEOs of companies or other famous people?
as mentioned in the Rolling Stone article, this gentleman runs a number of accounts tracking private jets owned by various celebrities or wealthy individuals. From the article:
Not long after those posts, Sweeney’s Swift-specific flight tracker accounts on Instagram and Facebook were suspended for violating those site’s privacy rules. Curiously, the accounts he maintains on those same platforms tracking the jets of other celebs and public figures — including Donald Trump, Jeff Bezos, Kim Kardashian, and even Instagram and Facebook owner Mark Zuckerberg — remain up.
what, indeed, makes Taylor Swift so special?
posted by ZaphodB at 2:59 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
as mentioned in the Rolling Stone article, this gentleman runs a number of accounts tracking private jets owned by various celebrities or wealthy individuals. From the article:
Not long after those posts, Sweeney’s Swift-specific flight tracker accounts on Instagram and Facebook were suspended for violating those site’s privacy rules. Curiously, the accounts he maintains on those same platforms tracking the jets of other celebs and public figures — including Donald Trump, Jeff Bezos, Kim Kardashian, and even Instagram and Facebook owner Mark Zuckerberg — remain up.
what, indeed, makes Taylor Swift so special?
posted by ZaphodB at 2:59 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
But it seems like the only way e get to have a public kerfuffle about the merits of private jets is by wrapping them in a celebrity blowing up about their movements being tracked.
it's an overton window thing. mainstreaming the idea that a pop star should be shamed for having a private jet (NB true even if there was no climate crisis) is a good way to set us on the road toward realising the spicier but more important proposition, namely that elon musk's private jets are the first justifiable use case for an air force to present itself in decades, if ever.
posted by busted_crayons at 2:59 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
it's an overton window thing. mainstreaming the idea that a pop star should be shamed for having a private jet (NB true even if there was no climate crisis) is a good way to set us on the road toward realising the spicier but more important proposition, namely that elon musk's private jets are the first justifiable use case for an air force to present itself in decades, if ever.
posted by busted_crayons at 2:59 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
People hate Elon Musk so much that they’ve ignored the realities of stalkers and paparazzi harassment.
I'm reminded of a video I saw a while back, about Swift going out to celebrate with her manager (who had gotten engaged, IIRC, and she wanted to show support for them), and her location got leaked - causing a massive flash mob surrounding the restaurant that overwhelmed the local police (it was in a small town, likely to try to be discreet.)
It doesn't surprise me that she would be very cognizant of being tracked, given that.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:00 PM on February 6 [8 favorites]
I'm reminded of a video I saw a while back, about Swift going out to celebrate with her manager (who had gotten engaged, IIRC, and she wanted to show support for them), and her location got leaked - causing a massive flash mob surrounding the restaurant that overwhelmed the local police (it was in a small town, likely to try to be discreet.)
It doesn't surprise me that she would be very cognizant of being tracked, given that.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:00 PM on February 6 [8 favorites]
I imagine many celebrities fly an enormous number of hours on charter jets or owned via companies we don't know. Harder to track, similar climate impact.
Having a car on call is a level above being able to call a car.
posted by hippybear at 3:00 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
Having a car on call is a level above being able to call a car.
posted by hippybear at 3:00 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
We could always microchip them individually.
posted by y2karl at 3:06 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 3:06 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
We could always microchip them individually.
But then you have to have scanners in place all over the planet, rather than them having a private system of transport that is required to be tracked by law that they get to bitch about for no real reason.
Don't want to be tracked? Take a plane for hire.
posted by hippybear at 3:09 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
But then you have to have scanners in place all over the planet, rather than them having a private system of transport that is required to be tracked by law that they get to bitch about for no real reason.
Don't want to be tracked? Take a plane for hire.
posted by hippybear at 3:09 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
The carbon footprint of the super-rich is a bit of a red herring here.
I mean, just start charging 1000$ per tonne of CO2 emissions, then you can fly all you want with your money.
1000$ per tonne is roughly the cost of atmospheric carbon capture, as opposed to at-source carbon capture; it is high enough that making synthetic hydrocarbons is economical.
Billionaires, like Taylor, could afford to set up atmospheric carbon capture plants and zero her CO2 debt. It isn't completely petty change - 8 million dollars a year for the CO2 of her Jet - but it is in the realm of affordable.
This isn't an efficient way to reduce CO2 emissions however; getting even a few 100$ CO2 per tonne cost enshrined at the WTO would do much more using less resources. (At the WTO is key - permitting countries to set up CO2 levies on nations that don't charge for CO2, or who use taxes to pay for CO2 costs of their emitters).
posted by NotAYakk at 3:14 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
I mean, just start charging 1000$ per tonne of CO2 emissions, then you can fly all you want with your money.
1000$ per tonne is roughly the cost of atmospheric carbon capture, as opposed to at-source carbon capture; it is high enough that making synthetic hydrocarbons is economical.
Billionaires, like Taylor, could afford to set up atmospheric carbon capture plants and zero her CO2 debt. It isn't completely petty change - 8 million dollars a year for the CO2 of her Jet - but it is in the realm of affordable.
This isn't an efficient way to reduce CO2 emissions however; getting even a few 100$ CO2 per tonne cost enshrined at the WTO would do much more using less resources. (At the WTO is key - permitting countries to set up CO2 levies on nations that don't charge for CO2, or who use taxes to pay for CO2 costs of their emitters).
posted by NotAYakk at 3:14 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
TS’s carbon footprint was originally exposed along with many other celebrities male and female who also got dragged but she’s a big name with a fanbase that (due to age and political leaning) are not necessarily going to be all rah rah about this sort of thing. So detractors and fans alike are going to discuss it and keep it alive in the public discourse.
posted by Selena777 at 3:15 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 3:15 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
If she is embarrassed about having a carbon footprint the size of Anguilla, has she considered simply not doing that
She's also got a GDP larger than Anguilla. I'm not sure it's possible to do what she does and fly commercial. Of all the uses of non-commercial aviation, international megastar musicians have more justification than most.
posted by BungaDunga at 3:17 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
She's also got a GDP larger than Anguilla. I'm not sure it's possible to do what she does and fly commercial. Of all the uses of non-commercial aviation, international megastar musicians have more justification than most.
posted by BungaDunga at 3:17 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
An adjacent example of plane tracking data is the efforts to keep tabs on the CIA's so-called "rendition" flights where the US government spirits people out of the US to secret international torture sites. WashPo: The U.S. carried out extraordinary rendition flights from 2001-2005. Here are 15 more countries that helped. Academic: Tracking rendition aircraft as a way to understand CIA secret detention and torture in Europe (2015). Also The Rendition Project.
posted by Nelson at 3:19 PM on February 6 [17 favorites]
the practice of rendition is partially observable — we can track suspected extraordinary rendition flight paths using publicly available flight data.Here's details on the Rendition Project's methodology. It's a remarkable OSINT project. They figure out which planes are being used by the CIA, then track them internationally via air traffic control. It helps that there aren't a lot of flights that look like the rendition flights.
posted by Nelson at 3:19 PM on February 6 [17 favorites]
Wait wait wait.. NotAYakk.. are you saying that an atmospheric carbon capture plant could be set up for 8 million dollars?
Oh, wait, you say a year.
What are the upfront costs for this plant that you're envisioning? And how many of them need to be built across the globe?
I'm entirely here for this concept. your 8 million dollars for the first year is a rounding error in Swift's fortune. If there's a planet upon which Taylor Swift is creating 8 million dollars a year carbon capture plants... the up-front costs are the problem here, but if that is happening, I would actually try to learn to like her music.
[I don't know why I don't like her music. I have decades of Indigo Girls and Melissa Etheridge and Tracy Chapman and Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul and I can't be bothered to list more female artists I love... she doesn't click with me. But if Taylor is building decarbonization plants around the world and is running them at 8 million dollars a year each, a rounding error in her over $1billion fortune, I would love that.]
posted by hippybear at 3:23 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
Oh, wait, you say a year.
What are the upfront costs for this plant that you're envisioning? And how many of them need to be built across the globe?
I'm entirely here for this concept. your 8 million dollars for the first year is a rounding error in Swift's fortune. If there's a planet upon which Taylor Swift is creating 8 million dollars a year carbon capture plants... the up-front costs are the problem here, but if that is happening, I would actually try to learn to like her music.
[I don't know why I don't like her music. I have decades of Indigo Girls and Melissa Etheridge and Tracy Chapman and Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul and I can't be bothered to list more female artists I love... she doesn't click with me. But if Taylor is building decarbonization plants around the world and is running them at 8 million dollars a year each, a rounding error in her over $1billion fortune, I would love that.]
posted by hippybear at 3:23 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
There should be data on many more people, not just Swift.
Good news, literally hundreds of people do this for thousands of flights a day.
There are probably a thousand people, right now, keeping an eye out for any planes in the world squawking 7700 on their transponder, because that indicates an emergency on board. Ever see a military aircraft flying overhead and wonder where it's going? Thousands of people online don't have to wonder, because they actively tracking it. Know who first figured out the US was bombing Yemen last week with B1 Lancers from bases in either Texas or Kansas? It wasn't the Houthis on the ground, it was the people tracking the refueling tankers flying over the coasts of Greenland and Scotland in the hours before bombs fell..
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 3:32 PM on February 6 [26 favorites]
Good news, literally hundreds of people do this for thousands of flights a day.
There are probably a thousand people, right now, keeping an eye out for any planes in the world squawking 7700 on their transponder, because that indicates an emergency on board. Ever see a military aircraft flying overhead and wonder where it's going? Thousands of people online don't have to wonder, because they actively tracking it. Know who first figured out the US was bombing Yemen last week with B1 Lancers from bases in either Texas or Kansas? It wasn't the Houthis on the ground, it was the people tracking the refueling tankers flying over the coasts of Greenland and Scotland in the hours before bombs fell..
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 3:32 PM on February 6 [26 favorites]
Good news, literally hundreds of people do this for thousands of flights a day.
Okay, where are all those websites tracking this data and publishing it in an easy to read version on the interwebs, so we can show that Sweeney isn't a unique individual?
I'm sure the defense would also like this information, so let's get it out there.
posted by hippybear at 3:37 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
Okay, where are all those websites tracking this data and publishing it in an easy to read version on the interwebs, so we can show that Sweeney isn't a unique individual?
I'm sure the defense would also like this information, so let's get it out there.
posted by hippybear at 3:37 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
Because the defense for Sweeney is going to lay/lie/exist within in that 1) Sweeney isn't unique for his tracking behavior, and 2) Sweeney and others were not targeting individuals but were publishing public data in an easy to digest form for the public where in its original official form it would be more opaque.
posted by hippybear at 3:39 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 3:39 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
For example there is also this Private Jet Tracker which uses data from ADSBx.
posted by mbrubeck at 3:50 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 3:50 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
There is also nothing stopping a billionaire from using chartered flight services rather than their own personal jet.
I’m still rather surprised that a cabal of billionaires hasn’t started up their own charter service for exactly this purpose. They could even reserve specific planes long term without any public registration.
The solution to this “problem” is so much simpler than the Streisand effect and the continuing bad publicity that I’ve come to think that the privacy class war is the point of these legal endeavors.
posted by Revvy at 3:56 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
I’m still rather surprised that a cabal of billionaires hasn’t started up their own charter service for exactly this purpose. They could even reserve specific planes long term without any public registration.
The solution to this “problem” is so much simpler than the Streisand effect and the continuing bad publicity that I’ve come to think that the privacy class war is the point of these legal endeavors.
posted by Revvy at 3:56 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
Dear Ms. Swift:
Attached is a letter that we received on February 5, 2024.
I feel that you should be aware that some asshole is signing your name to stupid letters.
Very truly yours,
Jack Sweeneyposted by kirkaracha at 3:57 PM on February 6 [23 favorites]
Because the defense for Sweeney is… publishing public data
That is as complicated as this needs to be and an important principle worth defending.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:04 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
That is as complicated as this needs to be and an important principle worth defending.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:04 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
We could always microchip them individually.
It's not a terrible idea. I mean if you keep a cellphone in your pocket, it continually connects to nearby networks and so you're basically chipped. Why do rich people get to enjoy levels and layers of privacy that the rest of us do not?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:21 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
It's not a terrible idea. I mean if you keep a cellphone in your pocket, it continually connects to nearby networks and so you're basically chipped. Why do rich people get to enjoy levels and layers of privacy that the rest of us do not?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:21 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
"Images of Taylor Swift have always been widely accessible online. Most people don't go to the enormous trouble necessary to download those images and Photoshop them into pornography, but technically nothing was ever stopping them from doing that! I've simply automated that process and circulated the results to millions."
"Complete records of most divorce filings have always been publicly accessible at the courthouse. Most people don't go to the enormous trouble necessary to collect those filings and cross-reference them against the spouses' Facebook posts, but technically nothing was ever stopping them from doing that! I've simply automated that process and circulated the results to millions."
"Mugshots of unconvicted arrestees have always been publicly accessible at the police station. Most people don't go to the enormous trouble necessary to request those mugshots, post them on the Internet, and promote them to the top of the Google results for the arrestees' names, but technically nothing was ever stopping them from doing that! I've simply automated that process and circulated the results to millions."
There's a chasm between "technically the public was already able to access this information" and "I have deliberately circulated this information as widely as possible." The latter is at minimum obnoxious, and potentially dangerous. And that principle's important whether or not you happen to find rich people unsympathetic.
posted by foursentences at 4:22 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
"Complete records of most divorce filings have always been publicly accessible at the courthouse. Most people don't go to the enormous trouble necessary to collect those filings and cross-reference them against the spouses' Facebook posts, but technically nothing was ever stopping them from doing that! I've simply automated that process and circulated the results to millions."
"Mugshots of unconvicted arrestees have always been publicly accessible at the police station. Most people don't go to the enormous trouble necessary to request those mugshots, post them on the Internet, and promote them to the top of the Google results for the arrestees' names, but technically nothing was ever stopping them from doing that! I've simply automated that process and circulated the results to millions."
There's a chasm between "technically the public was already able to access this information" and "I have deliberately circulated this information as widely as possible." The latter is at minimum obnoxious, and potentially dangerous. And that principle's important whether or not you happen to find rich people unsympathetic.
posted by foursentences at 4:22 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
For no reason, I was just thinking how at one point the most popular pop group in the world wrote a couple of songs about being taxed at 90% or more
posted by credulous at 4:28 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
posted by credulous at 4:28 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
"Mugshots of unconvicted arrestees have always been publicly accessible at the police station. Most people don't go to the enormous trouble necessary to request those mugshots, post them on the Internet, and promote them to the top of the Google results for the arrestees' names, but technically nothing was ever stopping them from doing that! I've simply automated that process and circulated the results to millions."
This isn't a hypothetical in Florida, but happens routinely thanks to the state's Sunshine Laws.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:33 PM on February 6 [4 favorites]
This isn't a hypothetical in Florida, but happens routinely thanks to the state's Sunshine Laws.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:33 PM on February 6 [4 favorites]
The latter is at minimum obnoxious, and potentially dangerous
That chasm was crossed long ago. I would gently suggest to you this was already a risk and problem in a number of scenarios far wider and more pernicious than those you theorize, for a much broader set of people.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:34 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
That chasm was crossed long ago. I would gently suggest to you this was already a risk and problem in a number of scenarios far wider and more pernicious than those you theorize, for a much broader set of people.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:34 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
I'm sure she can sort out some other way to get around if she doesn't want to produce public pollution information. Better scheduling would help too, like, don't schedule events across long distances when you have no way to get there in time except through gross excess.
posted by GoblinHoney at 4:36 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 4:36 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
Wait wait wait.. NotAYakk.. are you saying that an atmospheric carbon capture plant could be set up for 8 million dollars?
Oh, wait, you say a year.
What are the upfront costs for this plant that you're envisioning? And how many of them need to be built across the globe?
So converting co2 into captured carbon isn't hard. It is just expensive. You can capture a tonne of co2 for 1000$ out of the air no problem. But you can also capture a tonne for closer to 300$ if you stick your plant on the exhaust pipe of a natural gas generator, where the co2 concentration is higher.
The problem is that the gas that burns to make a tonne of co2 produces less than 300$ in electricity - thermodynamics won't let you do better. No free lunch.
The ability to reverse co2 emissions, or (less stupidly) replace fossil fuels with atmospheric capture synthetic fuels (zero net carbon) means that fossil fuels fueled engines can be carbon neutral - they just get *expensive* when you have to pay for carbon emissions.
Airplanes happen to be a place where the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels may make burning them still a good solution. We just gotta charge for the co2 emitted.
TL;DR we can have jet set celebrities in a carbon neutral world. It just costs them a bit more.
posted by NotAYakk at 4:39 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
Oh, wait, you say a year.
What are the upfront costs for this plant that you're envisioning? And how many of them need to be built across the globe?
So converting co2 into captured carbon isn't hard. It is just expensive. You can capture a tonne of co2 for 1000$ out of the air no problem. But you can also capture a tonne for closer to 300$ if you stick your plant on the exhaust pipe of a natural gas generator, where the co2 concentration is higher.
The problem is that the gas that burns to make a tonne of co2 produces less than 300$ in electricity - thermodynamics won't let you do better. No free lunch.
The ability to reverse co2 emissions, or (less stupidly) replace fossil fuels with atmospheric capture synthetic fuels (zero net carbon) means that fossil fuels fueled engines can be carbon neutral - they just get *expensive* when you have to pay for carbon emissions.
Airplanes happen to be a place where the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels may make burning them still a good solution. We just gotta charge for the co2 emitted.
TL;DR we can have jet set celebrities in a carbon neutral world. It just costs them a bit more.
posted by NotAYakk at 4:39 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
Also Jack Sweeney: Student who tracked Elon Musk’s jet now tracking Ron DeSantis, too (May 2023).
posted by Nelson at 4:42 PM on February 6 [9 favorites]
The DeSantis account is particularly noteworthy, as it was created shortly after the governor signed a bill allowing him to redact his travel records on state and private planes from public record — just before this week’s expected announcement of a 2024 presidential campaign.Note the plane in question is owned by the state of California. DeSantis, too, claims it was a security concern.
Critics have argued the law is more about eliminating government transparency on the eve of DeSantis’ White House bid. Last week, The New York Times reported that DeSantis is relying on a network of donor jets to shuttle him around the country, including visits to key primary states, like Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. Those records are largely shielded from public view, making it difficult to track who’s paying for DeSantis’ travel.(Worth noting the compromise Sweeney came to with Muskjet was to delay reports of where the plane was by 24 hours, at least on Twitter. That seems to still allow most interesting journalistic uses of the data while mitigating any imagined security risk. Although no one's gotten the FAA or several major commercial websites to similarly delay data access. Nor should they be able to IMHO. Also last I checked DeSantis and Swift both regularly schedule public appearances with plenty of advance notice all the time.)
posted by Nelson at 4:42 PM on February 6 [9 favorites]
Note the plane in question is owned by the state of California Florida.
posted by Nelson at 4:48 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 4:48 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
Note the plane in question is owned by the state of California Florida.
I was preparing to give Newsome some pretty heavy DeSantis-flavored side-eye.
posted by hippybear at 4:54 PM on February 6
I was preparing to give Newsome some pretty heavy DeSantis-flavored side-eye.
posted by hippybear at 4:54 PM on February 6
Private jet use is bad, yeah. No question about it. The rich get special privileges. But I'm more concerned about advocating for trying oil executives for mass murder or making sure oil spills can't happen. Jets are the extreme end of the recycling, limit personal use razzle dazzle to put the burden on individuals and not the giant corporations that don't want to spend a little to keep the environment safe
posted by Jacen at 5:22 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 5:22 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
It's publicly available information, which is available for good reasons, and she's using her wealth and power to essentially lie and try and use the legal system to punish a college student.
Like, she's just lying, or her lawyers are doing it on her behalf. I refuse to believe that she suffered direct and irreparable harm because people knew that she would be flying in to a city she was scheduled to perform at the next day, just on her say-so.
That's what bothers me about this. The complete dishonesty, in the name of using her vast influence to use the law abusively. That's wrong.
posted by Audreynachrome at 5:53 PM on February 6 [17 favorites]
Like, she's just lying, or her lawyers are doing it on her behalf. I refuse to believe that she suffered direct and irreparable harm because people knew that she would be flying in to a city she was scheduled to perform at the next day, just on her say-so.
That's what bothers me about this. The complete dishonesty, in the name of using her vast influence to use the law abusively. That's wrong.
posted by Audreynachrome at 5:53 PM on February 6 [17 favorites]
I don't think this was ever going to get her the result she wanted but one of her main stalkers has been arrested 3 times already this year so I can certainly see why she might not want this information publicized.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:55 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 5:55 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
Does he have a fighter plane so he can shoot her down at altitude?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:08 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:08 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
Her flight plans presumably include approximately when and exactly where she is supposed to land which is the kind of information I imagine her security team would rather keep more under wraps.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:17 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 6:17 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
I read the WaPo article earlier today and the bit that jumped out at me was, when TayTay was getting dragged for her CO2 emissions, she tried to pull the "But it wasn't all me":
Her publicist told The Post then that the analysis was flawed because her jet was often loaned out to other people.
So which is it? ADS-B (and Sweeney) is tracking her plane? Or tracking her?
posted by jburka at 6:17 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
Her publicist told The Post then that the analysis was flawed because her jet was often loaned out to other people.
So which is it? ADS-B (and Sweeney) is tracking her plane? Or tracking her?
posted by jburka at 6:17 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
There's an interesting disconnect here between how aviation rules work: public, predictable, accountable ... vs how wealth works: private, invisible, with low accountabiity. So when a wealthy person gets a private plane, they are in a situation where they must give up some privacy, invisibility, and invincibility. And hilarity sometimes ensues, in public.
posted by swift at 6:41 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
posted by swift at 6:41 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
Here is the C&D letter. On top of everything else, does it not strike anyone else as weirdly unprofessional? It states Sweeny broke "several state laws", but never names any. It quotes random Instagram posts. And I can't help but read "intentional, offensive, and outrageous conduct" in Jackie Chiles' voice.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:51 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 6:51 PM on February 6 [10 favorites]
And that's just one airline in Europe. Yikes.
It isn't. Your quote specifically says the figures are extrapolated from one airline's figures.
posted by Dysk at 7:18 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
It isn't. Your quote specifically says the figures are extrapolated from one airline's figures.
posted by Dysk at 7:18 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
Every time I hear the name Taylor Swift I am reminded that, in 2015, she required photogs that wanted to photograph her at her concerts for use in newspapers etc. to sign a contract stating that if her team decided the contract was being broken, they could destroy the photog's equipment on the spot. In addition to the rest of the draconian terms imposed (photog can sell it once but she gets unlimited perpetual worldwide use rights with zero compensation, for one).
Like, why do we still give a flying fuck about her?
posted by tubedogg at 7:35 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
Like, why do we still give a flying fuck about her?
posted by tubedogg at 7:35 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
Like, why do we still give a flying fuck about her?
Because her concert tour in the past year has literally generated something just under $100million in any community in which it has played, and that's community economic gain, not counting the concert enterprise itself.
Because she's one of the few women on the planet to become a billionaire mostly through her own career acumen? [And some of Daddy's money in the record label, but still.. if she weren't talented...]
I'm literally NOT in this thread to defend Taylor Swift, but after 2023, asking "why do we still care about her" is a bit of an ostrich attitude toward popular culture that I find not just puzzling but maybe inexcusable.
posted by hippybear at 7:42 PM on February 6 [16 favorites]
Because her concert tour in the past year has literally generated something just under $100million in any community in which it has played, and that's community economic gain, not counting the concert enterprise itself.
Because she's one of the few women on the planet to become a billionaire mostly through her own career acumen? [And some of Daddy's money in the record label, but still.. if she weren't talented...]
I'm literally NOT in this thread to defend Taylor Swift, but after 2023, asking "why do we still care about her" is a bit of an ostrich attitude toward popular culture that I find not just puzzling but maybe inexcusable.
posted by hippybear at 7:42 PM on February 6 [16 favorites]
Suppose someone looked up your home address; took a picture of your car and got the license plate and then bought LPR data from traffic cams to post your travel info to instagram? Hey it’s public information what the big deal.
posted by interogative mood at 7:44 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 7:44 PM on February 6 [5 favorites]
If you're buying data, it isn't public, by definition.
In fact, the owner of the data you've bought could sue you if you posted it publicly.
posted by hippybear at 7:46 PM on February 6 [9 favorites]
In fact, the owner of the data you've bought could sue you if you posted it publicly.
posted by hippybear at 7:46 PM on February 6 [9 favorites]
So you’re saying tracking her car is legal but tracking her plane should not be?
posted by ryanrs at 7:47 PM on February 6
posted by ryanrs at 7:47 PM on February 6
Nobody becomes a billionaire by being nice.
Even if we ignore all the other stuff, this lawsuit itself retroactively justifies the tracking: it proves that Swift is a dyed-in-the-wool billionaire, with the allegiances, values, and priorities that go with that. If that's enough reason to track Musk's plane, and Bezos's, and Zuckerberg's, and... (it was and it is) then it's enough reason to track Swift's.
Besides, if this was about not being tracked, there are dozens of ways to avoid that. But no, it's more important to be able to not compromise in any way, keep the prestige of the private jet, and cow those lesser people trying to use public data or something by throwing lawyers at them. Can't let them get notions, now.
posted by Dysk at 7:47 PM on February 6 [24 favorites]
Even if we ignore all the other stuff, this lawsuit itself retroactively justifies the tracking: it proves that Swift is a dyed-in-the-wool billionaire, with the allegiances, values, and priorities that go with that. If that's enough reason to track Musk's plane, and Bezos's, and Zuckerberg's, and... (it was and it is) then it's enough reason to track Swift's.
Besides, if this was about not being tracked, there are dozens of ways to avoid that. But no, it's more important to be able to not compromise in any way, keep the prestige of the private jet, and cow those lesser people trying to use public data or something by throwing lawyers at them. Can't let them get notions, now.
posted by Dysk at 7:47 PM on February 6 [24 favorites]
So you’re saying tracking her car is legal but tracking her plane should not be?
No, I'm saying that any data about her plane's location, in this hypothetical situation, is actually public data. Like, it is on the open web, and anyone could collate the information and display it for themselves.
But in this hypothetical situation, the data about her car's location is private data. I'm not sure how or why, but it was purchased, according to this hypothetical situation. This is not data available on the public web, it is not something anyone could gather without paying money to some private company to get it.
These are not similar circumstances, and they are exactly the opposite of what you are saying that I'm saying. Tracking her car is a private thing, and whether that data has been gathered legally is not the issue, the issue is that it is not public data and must be purchased. While her plane's location is required, by law, to be known to the public, not only where it is parked but where it might be headed in transit and even to emit a signal telling anyone who has the equipment to listen on public radio waves where it is.
If Taylor doesn't want her movements to be tracked, she's chosen the governmentally mandated equivalent of flying in a giant AirTag that reports to a public database. She could make other choices. They will be less convenient to her, but she can't change FAA regulations just by pouting about it.
posted by hippybear at 7:53 PM on February 6 [8 favorites]
No, I'm saying that any data about her plane's location, in this hypothetical situation, is actually public data. Like, it is on the open web, and anyone could collate the information and display it for themselves.
But in this hypothetical situation, the data about her car's location is private data. I'm not sure how or why, but it was purchased, according to this hypothetical situation. This is not data available on the public web, it is not something anyone could gather without paying money to some private company to get it.
These are not similar circumstances, and they are exactly the opposite of what you are saying that I'm saying. Tracking her car is a private thing, and whether that data has been gathered legally is not the issue, the issue is that it is not public data and must be purchased. While her plane's location is required, by law, to be known to the public, not only where it is parked but where it might be headed in transit and even to emit a signal telling anyone who has the equipment to listen on public radio waves where it is.
If Taylor doesn't want her movements to be tracked, she's chosen the governmentally mandated equivalent of flying in a giant AirTag that reports to a public database. She could make other choices. They will be less convenient to her, but she can't change FAA regulations just by pouting about it.
posted by hippybear at 7:53 PM on February 6 [8 favorites]
I am a radio nerd and I would totally setup a ADSB receiver, if I didn’t live in the Bay Area. This area is already well-saturated with receivers, though.
I do like following TIS-B, which is the public tracking data of planes flying with ADSB turned off. You see, if you fly your plane through SFO/OAK/SJC airspace with no ADSB transponder, the ATC primary radar will track your blip and broadcast your location, alt, and speed so commercial planes know you’re there. I see a lot of Ospreys, Chinooks, Black Hawks, T-38 trainers, and other interesting things all the time.
Even the USAF doesn’t get privacy here, at least not at low altitudes.
posted by ryanrs at 8:15 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
I do like following TIS-B, which is the public tracking data of planes flying with ADSB turned off. You see, if you fly your plane through SFO/OAK/SJC airspace with no ADSB transponder, the ATC primary radar will track your blip and broadcast your location, alt, and speed so commercial planes know you’re there. I see a lot of Ospreys, Chinooks, Black Hawks, T-38 trainers, and other interesting things all the time.
Even the USAF doesn’t get privacy here, at least not at low altitudes.
posted by ryanrs at 8:15 PM on February 6 [2 favorites]
All I'll say is I get her being upset about this, given all the stalkers. That said, Sweeney could just do the 24 hour delay thing on her too, right?
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:20 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:20 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
If her problem is stalkers, why is she taking action against someone entirely innocent? I wanted to know more about the "stalker arrested 3 times" thing, and one of the first articles was this (USA Today) which includes a section about a new proposed "21st Century Anti-Stalking Bill" which might actually do something to curb the stalking she suffers.
TS could be throwing her weight behind something like that bill, talking about misogyny and how courts are often disconnected from women's real experiences, instead of attempting to use legal intimidation tactics on a nobody.
Sweeney seems like someone I don't like much by any other measure, but this is just TS yet again choosing to dodge doing something good with her wealth and influence, instead luxuriating in the power it brings her over her financial inferiors. It's a shame I like her music so much.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:54 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
TS could be throwing her weight behind something like that bill, talking about misogyny and how courts are often disconnected from women's real experiences, instead of attempting to use legal intimidation tactics on a nobody.
Sweeney seems like someone I don't like much by any other measure, but this is just TS yet again choosing to dodge doing something good with her wealth and influence, instead luxuriating in the power it brings her over her financial inferiors. It's a shame I like her music so much.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:54 PM on February 6 [6 favorites]
No, I'm saying that any data about her plane's location, in this hypothetical situation, is actually public data. Like, it is on the open web, and anyone could collate the information and display it for themselves.
Only sort of, I think. The data that feeds these accounts comes from ADSB receivers set up by hobbyists. The big website for this (ADSB Exchange) got sold to a corporation who can now charge for the data.
The FAA publishes its own ADSB data feed online, but planes can opt out of being published on it- it's filtered. They can't opt-out of broadcasting the actual signals though, so these networks of hobbyists pool their data to track planes whether they're included in the FAA feed or not.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:31 PM on February 6
Only sort of, I think. The data that feeds these accounts comes from ADSB receivers set up by hobbyists. The big website for this (ADSB Exchange) got sold to a corporation who can now charge for the data.
The FAA publishes its own ADSB data feed online, but planes can opt out of being published on it- it's filtered. They can't opt-out of broadcasting the actual signals though, so these networks of hobbyists pool their data to track planes whether they're included in the FAA feed or not.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:31 PM on February 6
It’s public in the sense that you’re screaming in plaintext at 30k ft and the whole point is to have other people receive your info.
posted by ryanrs at 10:44 PM on February 6 [4 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 10:44 PM on February 6 [4 favorites]
It’s public in the sense that you’re screaming in plaintext at 30k ft
That gave me a mental image of the 20th Century Fox logo.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:56 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
That gave me a mental image of the 20th Century Fox logo.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:56 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I'm surprised that some swifties haven't already started to just follow around and harass Jack Sweeney wherever he is, post his whereabouts constantly, and generally make his life hell. Anyway, there are certainly enough swifties that they can work in shifts to avoid real legal trouble.
posted by schyler523 at 5:47 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
posted by schyler523 at 5:47 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
given all the stalkers.
That is sexist. And the same excuse Elon and DeSantis made.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 7:39 AM on February 7
That is sexist. And the same excuse Elon and DeSantis made.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 7:39 AM on February 7
Taylor Swift takes a 13 minute private jet flight
posted by MonsieurPEB at 7:57 AM on February 7 [3 favorites]
posted by MonsieurPEB at 7:57 AM on February 7 [3 favorites]
Saying that Taylor Swift has stalkers isn't sexist. WTF?
If Sweeney wanted to publish this information on a delay, ensuring it wasn't published until well after her jet leaves wherever it was, so that people could criticize her for being a wasteful billionaire who is damaging the planet, I'd be totally fine with that. There was a 24 hour delay introduced to the Twitter version of some of this stuff, and while that's not quite as clearly 'well after it has already left', it's better than nothing.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:26 AM on February 7 [8 favorites]
If Sweeney wanted to publish this information on a delay, ensuring it wasn't published until well after her jet leaves wherever it was, so that people could criticize her for being a wasteful billionaire who is damaging the planet, I'd be totally fine with that. There was a 24 hour delay introduced to the Twitter version of some of this stuff, and while that's not quite as clearly 'well after it has already left', it's better than nothing.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:26 AM on February 7 [8 favorites]
>Anyway, there are certainly enough swifties that they can work in shifts to avoid real legal trouble.
The moment this comes out in court, it goes from a one-off to conspiracy charges.
posted by turntraitor at 9:44 AM on February 7
The moment this comes out in court, it goes from a one-off to conspiracy charges.
posted by turntraitor at 9:44 AM on February 7
It's gross to contemplate, but a stalker could just get their own ADS-B receiver and live in a city that their victim frequently visits. Apparently receivers can pick up aircraft signals from 300-500 miles away, which is easily 1-2 hours advance notice even for a private jet.
So I think Sweeney and other publishers of this information are red herrings. That said, I also think Sweeney has a very easy out here, which is to post weekly or monthly total distances traveled. That would essentially completely eliminate the (purported) utility of the information to a stalker but still permit naming and shaming the ultra rich for their private jet usage. I don't think real-time tracking or even time-lagged identification of specific routes is necessary.
Updating stalking laws to eliminate the requirement of a connection between the stalker and victim and (somehow) overturning Counterman v. Colorado in favor of a reasonable person standard would probably do a whole lot more to help victims of stalking and harassment, though.
posted by jedicus at 10:10 AM on February 7 [2 favorites]
So I think Sweeney and other publishers of this information are red herrings. That said, I also think Sweeney has a very easy out here, which is to post weekly or monthly total distances traveled. That would essentially completely eliminate the (purported) utility of the information to a stalker but still permit naming and shaming the ultra rich for their private jet usage. I don't think real-time tracking or even time-lagged identification of specific routes is necessary.
Updating stalking laws to eliminate the requirement of a connection between the stalker and victim and (somehow) overturning Counterman v. Colorado in favor of a reasonable person standard would probably do a whole lot more to help victims of stalking and harassment, though.
posted by jedicus at 10:10 AM on February 7 [2 favorites]
Taylor Swift should work with Elon Musk to fly SpaceX rockets from city to city around the world. She could land outside each arena in a big plume of smoke and fire, and then, like Helen in the arms of Gort, or Master atop Blaster, be carried down a ramp and into the arena.
For the final stretch of the tour, she could broadcast weightless concerts from orbit. Rig the spaceship with mirrors to twinkle like a giant disco ball in the night for fans who want to watch her fly over.
When that last flight lands, she could slip through a hatch and down into her secret underground empire, and then blow up the rocket so everyone thinks she's dead and vaporized. Meanwhile, she travels in airless tunnels to her volcanic lair and waits.
Later, when she is mourned and worshiped and all is forgiven, and every record she ever recorded is fighting the rest of her records for the top of the charts, she emerges on Easter morning wearing a bunny suit and singing about the rocket pilot she left behind.
posted by pracowity at 10:35 AM on February 7 [5 favorites]
For the final stretch of the tour, she could broadcast weightless concerts from orbit. Rig the spaceship with mirrors to twinkle like a giant disco ball in the night for fans who want to watch her fly over.
When that last flight lands, she could slip through a hatch and down into her secret underground empire, and then blow up the rocket so everyone thinks she's dead and vaporized. Meanwhile, she travels in airless tunnels to her volcanic lair and waits.
Later, when she is mourned and worshiped and all is forgiven, and every record she ever recorded is fighting the rest of her records for the top of the charts, she emerges on Easter morning wearing a bunny suit and singing about the rocket pilot she left behind.
posted by pracowity at 10:35 AM on February 7 [5 favorites]
She should get a stealth fighter. You could probably pick up a used F-117 at the Air Force Surplus Store.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:01 AM on February 7 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:01 AM on February 7 [3 favorites]
stevis23: Kudos to Ms. Swift for testing the boundary conditions of the Streisand effect.
I don't know if Gen Z know who Barbara Streisand is or why there's a Streisand Effect, but here's one way to make it known.
posted by k3ninho at 11:55 AM on February 7 [2 favorites]
I don't know if Gen Z know who Barbara Streisand is or why there's a Streisand Effect, but here's one way to make it known.
posted by k3ninho at 11:55 AM on February 7 [2 favorites]
I don't know if Gen Z know who Barbara Streisand is
So, I don't really know Gen Z much at all, but I do know the kiddos have flattened the historical cycle in a way that is entirely foreign to someone my age. When I was out driving delivery routes on warm sunny days I'd often have my windows down and be listening to what other people were listening to while at traffic lights, just out of curiosity. And I will tell you, the number of truly young people I heard listening to Frank Sinatra, The Carpenters, strange jazz numbers...
I don't know if Gen Z knows Barbra the way my generation knows Barbra, but there will be a section of them who are aware of her simply because all the music is available all the time in a way it never was before.
posted by hippybear at 12:02 PM on February 7 [5 favorites]
So, I don't really know Gen Z much at all, but I do know the kiddos have flattened the historical cycle in a way that is entirely foreign to someone my age. When I was out driving delivery routes on warm sunny days I'd often have my windows down and be listening to what other people were listening to while at traffic lights, just out of curiosity. And I will tell you, the number of truly young people I heard listening to Frank Sinatra, The Carpenters, strange jazz numbers...
I don't know if Gen Z knows Barbra the way my generation knows Barbra, but there will be a section of them who are aware of her simply because all the music is available all the time in a way it never was before.
posted by hippybear at 12:02 PM on February 7 [5 favorites]
We could always microchip them individually.
The airplanes or the celebrities?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:32 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
The airplanes or the celebrities?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:32 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
I'm literally NOT in this thread to defend Taylor Swift, but after 2023, asking "why do we still care about her" is a bit of an ostrich attitude toward popular culture that I find not just puzzling but maybe inexcusable.
So she's a successful female musician who makes a lot of money...and that's why we should care about her? You didn't answer my question, you just stated the obvious (she's rich and popular).
I'm not claiming she's not talented, but being talented and being a scumbag are not mutually exclusive, and I tend to believe that as a culture, we would be in a much better place if we started ignoring the scumbags.
(scumbag might be harsh but saying it's "inexcusable" to suggest we should stop paying attention to someone who acts like this is absurd)
posted by tubedogg at 6:36 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
So she's a successful female musician who makes a lot of money...and that's why we should care about her? You didn't answer my question, you just stated the obvious (she's rich and popular).
I'm not claiming she's not talented, but being talented and being a scumbag are not mutually exclusive, and I tend to believe that as a culture, we would be in a much better place if we started ignoring the scumbags.
(scumbag might be harsh but saying it's "inexcusable" to suggest we should stop paying attention to someone who acts like this is absurd)
posted by tubedogg at 6:36 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
Swift appears to have sold her plane.
I would guess that she's either replacing it or switching to chartered flights.
posted by jedicus at 6:47 PM on February 7
I would guess that she's either replacing it or switching to chartered flights.
posted by jedicus at 6:47 PM on February 7
So she's a successful female musician who makes a lot of money...and that's why we should care about her? You didn't answer my question, you just stated the obvious (she's rich and popular).
Okay, so what is your measure of why we should pay attention to any female musician? Is "is popular and makes a lot of money" not the measure of why we pay attention to ANY musician regardless of gender? Or era?
What is the exact rubric you would apply toward a successful female musician who makes a lot of money which might determine that she is worthy of attention, instead of dismissal as you assert should be applied toward Swift? What is the bar that she has not passed over that has eliminated her from your scale of attention?
I'm entirely not sure why you've adopted "scumbag" to apply to her, but I stand by saying that dismissing a woman whose concert tour actually changed the local economies of communities where her tour stopped might be "inexcusable" is actually inexcusable. Because that's a force that is difficult for most to comprehend.
But you think it's absurd. Okay. Keep on being you.
posted by hippybear at 7:12 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]
Okay, so what is your measure of why we should pay attention to any female musician? Is "is popular and makes a lot of money" not the measure of why we pay attention to ANY musician regardless of gender? Or era?
What is the exact rubric you would apply toward a successful female musician who makes a lot of money which might determine that she is worthy of attention, instead of dismissal as you assert should be applied toward Swift? What is the bar that she has not passed over that has eliminated her from your scale of attention?
I'm entirely not sure why you've adopted "scumbag" to apply to her, but I stand by saying that dismissing a woman whose concert tour actually changed the local economies of communities where her tour stopped might be "inexcusable" is actually inexcusable. Because that's a force that is difficult for most to comprehend.
But you think it's absurd. Okay. Keep on being you.
posted by hippybear at 7:12 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]
such a humanitarian, that Swift, holding all those free concerts lifting up the impoverished with her selfless charity
posted by glonous keming at 7:18 PM on February 7 [7 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 7:18 PM on February 7 [7 favorites]
I'm entirely not sure why you've adopted "scumbag" to apply to her
I can't speak for tubedogg, but we're in a thread about her suing a college kid for rubbing a website with some public data that is inconvenient for her. That would be reason enough on its own.
dismissing a woman whose concert tour actually changed the local economies of communities where her tour stopped might be "inexcusable" is actually inexcusable. Because that's a force that is difficult for most to comprehend.
That is now power and influence than any one person should have. She's a billionaire. You cannot be a billionaire and a decent person. You just can't! If you were decent, you'd no longer be a billionaire.
posted by Dysk at 12:24 AM on February 8 [15 favorites]
I can't speak for tubedogg, but we're in a thread about her suing a college kid for rubbing a website with some public data that is inconvenient for her. That would be reason enough on its own.
dismissing a woman whose concert tour actually changed the local economies of communities where her tour stopped might be "inexcusable" is actually inexcusable. Because that's a force that is difficult for most to comprehend.
That is now power and influence than any one person should have. She's a billionaire. You cannot be a billionaire and a decent person. You just can't! If you were decent, you'd no longer be a billionaire.
posted by Dysk at 12:24 AM on February 8 [15 favorites]
I do see a difference in the data being public and someone neatly presenting that data to the public.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:50 AM on February 8
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:50 AM on February 8
Also on the billionaire thing- I agree! But she ain't no Musk.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:51 AM on February 8
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:51 AM on February 8
It's silly to sue him on safety grounds, because it's Taylor Swift, and if Jack Sweeney is able to get the information and publish it after a suitable time delay you know there are thousands of people who are stalking in real time.
posted by kingdead at 5:01 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]
posted by kingdead at 5:01 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]
woman whose concert tour actually changed the local economies of communities where her tour stopped might be "inexcusable" is actually inexcusable. Because that's a force that is difficult for most to comprehend.
I like Swift ok, but concerts *do not* change economies - they simply displace other activity. If they did *change economies*, then subsidized stadium deals would be a good idea. They do not, they displace other economic activity (move it to other weeks), and destroying anything above an abandoned factory to even build a stadium is a bad idea. Stadiums can be good for intangibles, like city pride, and having a big gathering place to build community, but economically they are worthless, unless of course Taylor Swift has a concert (or some other equivalent) activity every single day.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on February 8 [4 favorites]
I like Swift ok, but concerts *do not* change economies - they simply displace other activity. If they did *change economies*, then subsidized stadium deals would be a good idea. They do not, they displace other economic activity (move it to other weeks), and destroying anything above an abandoned factory to even build a stadium is a bad idea. Stadiums can be good for intangibles, like city pride, and having a big gathering place to build community, but economically they are worthless, unless of course Taylor Swift has a concert (or some other equivalent) activity every single day.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on February 8 [4 favorites]
The Staggering Economic Impact of Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour
posted by hippybear at 7:51 AM on February 8 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:51 AM on February 8 [3 favorites]
they simply displace other activity [...] they displace other economic activity (move it to other weeks)
That might be true in a closed ecosystem, but major concerts and sporting events bring in lots of crowds from out of town/city/state, who spend money at the event and at local restaurants, businesses, etc. That they otherwise would not spend in that location, other weeks or no. They simply wouldn't come to the town. It can definitely bring an influx of money to a local economy, not just shift it around.
posted by Roommate at 7:55 AM on February 8 [4 favorites]
That might be true in a closed ecosystem, but major concerts and sporting events bring in lots of crowds from out of town/city/state, who spend money at the event and at local restaurants, businesses, etc. That they otherwise would not spend in that location, other weeks or no. They simply wouldn't come to the town. It can definitely bring an influx of money to a local economy, not just shift it around.
posted by Roommate at 7:55 AM on February 8 [4 favorites]
It can definitely bring an influx of money to a local economy, not just shift it around.
Anecdote : My cousin and her teenage daughter drove from Richmond, VA to Cincinnati, OH this past summer just to sit outside the stadium to hear Taylor perform both nights of her tour. Presumably they spent money on hotels, food, etc.
posted by mmascolino at 8:13 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]
Anecdote : My cousin and her teenage daughter drove from Richmond, VA to Cincinnati, OH this past summer just to sit outside the stadium to hear Taylor perform both nights of her tour. Presumably they spent money on hotels, food, etc.
posted by mmascolino at 8:13 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]
How is this any different tracking any of your digital breadcrumbs scattered across various sites and figuring out your name, address, employer, and other details pulled from various public sites and posting it? Hey it’s all “public” data. I think it is wrong and I suspect almost everyone here would feel like that was a massive invasion of their privacy. Even if it is all technically out there in public. I’m sure some of Swift’s stalkers and others are able to cross check these databases and do this tracking on their own. However the multiple effect should not be underestimated of one guy has making it available on social media for every QAnon nutter with a fixation over some woke superbowl conspiracy to access and maybe use to threaten her or attack her, that’s a whole different level.
posted by interogative mood at 9:05 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 9:05 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]
The number of people who don’t understand that importance is not the only significant factor in commenting on an issue never ceases to amaze me. Would I rather put oil industry execs in jail for all of time than pick at Taylor Swift’s jet use? Of course! But from my knowledge of government and life experience, I know I’ll die before that happens. But climate-shaming a billionaire performer whose empire depends on fan goodwill? That might actually change something, even if it would be small. And a sense of accomplishment is essential to the psyche.
posted by vim876 at 9:06 AM on February 8 [7 favorites]
posted by vim876 at 9:06 AM on February 8 [7 favorites]
How is this any different tracking any of your digital breadcrumbs
Because the resulting data is of public interest that has social value completely independent of Taylor Swift's location.
Also it's Swift's plane, not Swift herself. Her own team has said that's an important difference. (Now, former plane.)
Also there's never been an expectation of privacy of the location of an airplane. Not since the first transponders were introduced.
Also it's pretty silly to think that tracking Taylor Swift's plane is a primary risk to her personal safety and privacy. There are many, many other more prevalent ways people know where she is. There's a whole loving fan community dedicated to it.
posted by Nelson at 9:31 AM on February 8 [7 favorites]
Because the resulting data is of public interest that has social value completely independent of Taylor Swift's location.
Also it's Swift's plane, not Swift herself. Her own team has said that's an important difference. (Now, former plane.)
Also there's never been an expectation of privacy of the location of an airplane. Not since the first transponders were introduced.
Also it's pretty silly to think that tracking Taylor Swift's plane is a primary risk to her personal safety and privacy. There are many, many other more prevalent ways people know where she is. There's a whole loving fan community dedicated to it.
posted by Nelson at 9:31 AM on February 8 [7 favorites]
I am so torn on this one. She's had a stalker break into her home, shower in her bathroom and crawl into her bed to wait for her. The stalkers we know are the ones who got arrested for it - some more than once. With the recent Fox News segments about her being a false idol and talking about waging a holy war? I think she's scared, very scared, and spooked. Now, that doesn't mean lashing out at a guy who reports plane locations this way- that feels dumb, don't ever be on the same side as Elon Musk - but it's something I can see a scared person doing.
I think the recent arrests of the same stalker outside her New York apartment- arrested 3 times in 5 days, he would just leave lock up and go back to her apartment - is related to this as well. I'm wondering if he was following the account, so they could claim direct harm. Also, per flightaware.com, accessed today- "This aircraft (N898TS) is not available for tracking per request from the owner/operator".
posted by Torosaurus at 12:04 PM on February 8 [6 favorites]
I think the recent arrests of the same stalker outside her New York apartment- arrested 3 times in 5 days, he would just leave lock up and go back to her apartment - is related to this as well. I'm wondering if he was following the account, so they could claim direct harm. Also, per flightaware.com, accessed today- "This aircraft (N898TS) is not available for tracking per request from the owner/operator".
posted by Torosaurus at 12:04 PM on February 8 [6 favorites]
This continued harassment of a woman in the name of climate change is just another variant of claiming the actions were actually about protesting the state of ethics in video game journalism. I didn’t buy it then, and I don’t buy it now.
posted by interogative mood at 3:46 PM on February 8 [5 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 3:46 PM on February 8 [5 favorites]
Jack Sweeney has been tracking the private jets of ultra-wealthy celebrities for some time. He does Musk, Russian oligarchs, Trump, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Drake. I'm not sure there's a convincing argument here that he is singling out a famous woman due to misogyny.
posted by Dysk at 5:26 PM on February 8 [8 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 5:26 PM on February 8 [8 favorites]
jesus christ. swift, musk, etc. aren't women, men, etc, they are billionaires. They don't exist in the same mess of dependence and obligation as everyone else, which is the source of shit like rights, to privacy and everything else (they exist in a qualitatively different one). Us peons can't meaningfully dehumanise people who have both the privilege and the inclination to opt out of being human. People appealing to analogies involving things like our own intuition about our own personal privacy are making the sort of category error one makes when, I dunno, anthropomorphising a natural disaster.
posted by busted_crayons at 6:07 PM on February 8 [6 favorites]
posted by busted_crayons at 6:07 PM on February 8 [6 favorites]
Sounds like people tracking her apartment are the problem, not the ones tracking her plane.
Has anyone ever broken into her plane and waited for her to board?
posted by ryanrs at 6:52 PM on February 8 [4 favorites]
Has anyone ever broken into her plane and waited for her to board?
posted by ryanrs at 6:52 PM on February 8 [4 favorites]
...has literally generated something just under $100million in any community in which it has played, and that's community economic gain, not counting the concert enterprise itself.
...a woman whose concert tour actually changed the local economies of communities where her tour stopped...
That might be true in a closed ecosystem, but major concerts and sporting events bring in lots of crowds from out of town/city/state, who spend money at the event and at local restaurants, businesses, etc. That they otherwise would not spend in that location, other weeks or no. They simply wouldn't come to the town. It can definitely bring an influx of money to a local economy, not just shift it around.
Taylor Swift didn't go around America playing in a bunch of small town and injecting their economies with her fans' money. Her Eras tour in 2023 visited major cities or their suburb where their big (mostly NFL) stadium is located. Great that DFW got $100m economic boom from her stop there but I bet the surrounding communities in Texas and OK would have appreciated keeping that money in their own towns instead of it being spent in the city.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:09 PM on February 8 [6 favorites]
...a woman whose concert tour actually changed the local economies of communities where her tour stopped...
That might be true in a closed ecosystem, but major concerts and sporting events bring in lots of crowds from out of town/city/state, who spend money at the event and at local restaurants, businesses, etc. That they otherwise would not spend in that location, other weeks or no. They simply wouldn't come to the town. It can definitely bring an influx of money to a local economy, not just shift it around.
Taylor Swift didn't go around America playing in a bunch of small town and injecting their economies with her fans' money. Her Eras tour in 2023 visited major cities or their suburb where their big (mostly NFL) stadium is located. Great that DFW got $100m economic boom from her stop there but I bet the surrounding communities in Texas and OK would have appreciated keeping that money in their own towns instead of it being spent in the city.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:09 PM on February 8 [6 favorites]
It is shocking the number of people willing to step and fetch for billionaires -- for free! These issues are consequences of the path in life these terrible people have chosen, let them bear the fruits or choose differently. Fuck's sakes.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:45 AM on February 9 [7 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:45 AM on February 9 [7 favorites]
Around 1,000 private aircraft are expected at Las Vegas airports for the Super Bowl. It matters for climate change, and maybe for Taylor Swift, too.
“The emissions levels of a mega-event like this from air traffic, and the energy use is at least double in a day than it would be on average” ...How could Taylor Swift get to the Super Bowl from her Eras Tour? Here are possible routes
For comparison, Ms. Schenk’s team calculated that the 1,040 private jet flights that landed in Davos for last year’s World Economic Forum produced carbon dioxide emissions equivalent to 350,000 cars in a week.
According to Business Insider, Swift has two multimillion-dollar private jets — a Dassault Falcon 7X and a Dassault Falcon 900 — that were heavily used during the U.S. leg of her Eras Tour. ...posted by Nelson at 7:17 AM on February 9 [1 favorite]
as of Friday, there were no slots available to land in Las Vegas during Super Bowl weekend. ... “The way that I got it explained by operators is that (they) don’t have any more availability at any of the Las Vegas airports that can receive a jet, whether it’s private or whether it’s commercial. When I say commercial, that’s someone renting an airplane to fly,” the account manager continued.
Like every band, her private jet is full of musicians, technicians,and equipment, using about the same jet fuel as commercial flights. That part is a legitimate business use, just like Your Favorite Popular Band™. Tour buses don't go from the US to most other countries.
There's a video of Bill Gates getting a pie in the face, and as he sees it coming from one angle that I can't find, I perceive a flash of fear cross his face. Personal jets are an abuse of our climate. But big celebs, esp. but not exclusively young, pretty women, are at significant risk of harm from stalkers. I'm less distressed by Swift's use of private jets to go to her job than by the execs and others who use them to golfing. Yes, she's using one to go to a football game, yes, that's bad, but the schedule is driven by her work vs. an event scheduled by the NFL. She's being used as a Climate target because sound people, esp. young women, really pay attention to her. Fair game, mostly.
A smooth PR stunt would be parachuting in; that would make me consider watching.
posted by theora55 at 10:32 AM on February 9 [1 favorite]
There's a video of Bill Gates getting a pie in the face, and as he sees it coming from one angle that I can't find, I perceive a flash of fear cross his face. Personal jets are an abuse of our climate. But big celebs, esp. but not exclusively young, pretty women, are at significant risk of harm from stalkers. I'm less distressed by Swift's use of private jets to go to her job than by the execs and others who use them to golfing. Yes, she's using one to go to a football game, yes, that's bad, but the schedule is driven by her work vs. an event scheduled by the NFL. She's being used as a Climate target because sound people, esp. young women, really pay attention to her. Fair game, mostly.
A smooth PR stunt would be parachuting in; that would make me consider watching.
posted by theora55 at 10:32 AM on February 9 [1 favorite]
They simply wouldn't come to the town. It can definitely bring an influx of money to a local economy, not just shift it around.
But that is still shifting, just from farther away. In a mega event like this likely from a less advantaged area to a more advantaged area. $500 spent on a Swift Concert is in most cases coming from other discretionary spending. Bob's Bowlarama & BBQ and other such businesses are the losers.
posted by Mitheral at 12:36 PM on February 9 [2 favorites]
But that is still shifting, just from farther away. In a mega event like this likely from a less advantaged area to a more advantaged area. $500 spent on a Swift Concert is in most cases coming from other discretionary spending. Bob's Bowlarama & BBQ and other such businesses are the losers.
posted by Mitheral at 12:36 PM on February 9 [2 favorites]
Taylor Swift's Eras Tour estimated to boost Japanese economy by $228 million
posted by hippybear at 12:57 PM on February 9
posted by hippybear at 12:57 PM on February 9
I can't speak for tubedogg, but we're in a thread about her suing a college kid for rubbing a website with some public data that is inconvenient for her. That would be reason enough on its own.
Basically what I would have said. Between that and the photog contract I brought up, even ignoring climate issues (which I do not agree we should be doing, but for argument's sake), Taylor Swift is not what I would call a great person. It has nothing to do with being a popular female musician and everything to do with her actual actions outside of being talented.
It's like saying we have to pay attention to Elon Musk because he owns Twitter and runs Tesla and Space X, but is also an absolute dumpster fire of a human being. The prior three things, even if he's good at them (very arguable), do not cancel out the fact he's at the absolute least a racist misogynist with a self-worth complex and anger control issues.
(to be absolutely clear, I'm not suggesting that Elon Musk and Taylor Swift are on the same plane [heh] of horribleness overall, but he is a fellow billionaire who also sued a college kid for running a website with some public data that is inconvenient for him shrugs)
posted by tubedogg at 4:59 PM on February 9 [4 favorites]
Basically what I would have said. Between that and the photog contract I brought up, even ignoring climate issues (which I do not agree we should be doing, but for argument's sake), Taylor Swift is not what I would call a great person. It has nothing to do with being a popular female musician and everything to do with her actual actions outside of being talented.
It's like saying we have to pay attention to Elon Musk because he owns Twitter and runs Tesla and Space X, but is also an absolute dumpster fire of a human being. The prior three things, even if he's good at them (very arguable), do not cancel out the fact he's at the absolute least a racist misogynist with a self-worth complex and anger control issues.
(to be absolutely clear, I'm not suggesting that Elon Musk and Taylor Swift are on the same plane [heh] of horribleness overall, but he is a fellow billionaire who also sued a college kid for running a website with some public data that is inconvenient for him shrugs)
posted by tubedogg at 4:59 PM on February 9 [4 favorites]
I feel like if someone was posting the flight data of stewardess with a stalker barely anyone here would be going to bat to criminalize sharing flight data, but attach that info to a billionaire entertainer and suddenly it's a real situation.
posted by Ferreous at 7:09 PM on February 9 [3 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 7:09 PM on February 9 [3 favorites]
I feel like if someone was posting the flight data of stewardess with a stalker barely anyone here would be going to bat to criminalize sharing flight data, but attach that info to a billionaire entertainer and suddenly it's a real situation.Very true. And, again, nobody is publishing the flight data of a person. They are publishing the flight data of a plane. These things are very different! People do, in fact, have a right to privacy (even though SCOTUS doesn't think so). Planes, being inanimate objects, have no rights whatsoever.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:08 PM on February 9 [4 favorites]
What's a stewardess?
posted by tigrrrlily at 1:04 PM on February 10 [1 favorite]
posted by tigrrrlily at 1:04 PM on February 10 [1 favorite]
Someone who jets around constantly but isn’t a billionaire.
posted by ryanrs at 6:10 PM on February 10 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 6:10 PM on February 10 [2 favorites]
just now i watched NHK Newsline (the Japanese public broadcaster's top-of-the-hour newsbrief targeted at overseas markets) and those idiots didn't even mention Taylor Swift once.
posted by glonous keming at 6:25 PM on February 10
posted by glonous keming at 6:25 PM on February 10
Mugshots of unconvicted arrestees have always been publicly accessible at the police station. Most people don't go to the enormous trouble necessary to request those mugshots, post them on the Internet
Derail, but there is a chain of newspapers that does this and distributes the paper to your local gas station. They are horrid but apparently profitable
posted by eustatic at 6:41 PM on February 10
Derail, but there is a chain of newspapers that does this and distributes the paper to your local gas station. They are horrid but apparently profitable
posted by eustatic at 6:41 PM on February 10
Private plane labeled ‘The Football Era' lands at LAX, online sleuths say. But is it really Taylor Swift?. This was the big story of yesterday in certain social media circles, mostly fuelled by people sharing a flight track for VJT993 while it was enroute. An enormous amount more of discussion on Reddit TaylorSwiftJets.
posted by Nelson at 7:50 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 7:50 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
As above, billionares rent planes when they care about location privacy, but billionares like Musk complain about their flights being tracked when they meerely dislike the bad press for flying so much.
As a positive note, Taylor Swift has kinda recognized that denser urban living makes cities more fun.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:10 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
As a positive note, Taylor Swift has kinda recognized that denser urban living makes cities more fun.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:10 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
Can I just take this one tiny moment to mention that Las Vegas today is not the Las Vegas of 10 years ago is not the Las Vegas of 20 years ago. Like, Las Vegas Boulevard? That's basically gone as a pedestrian attraction. The Mirage volcano is gone, the Bellagio fountains have no sidewalk to view them from anymore... Vegas has also criminalized stopping on the pedestrian bridges for any length of time, so makes taking those generations-old Vegas photos a bit more difficult.
And let's not get into how the construction of the F1 track through Vegas has entirely fucked traffic patterns, if you're brave enough to drive in that zone.
Vegas is not a favorite city of mine, but when I first encountered it in the late Eighties, Luxor had not yet been built and you could get a room and meals for a weekend for $50-60. The first time I walked into Circus Circus I dropped a quarter into one of the flipper machines and it kicked out $40 worth of quarters and that paid for my room and food for the weekend, really cheap but yes.
That's impossible today.
And if you remember Vegas from the Theme Hotel days? Those have been losing theming for ages. And the whole "we make money from the gambling, so hotels and food are affordable?" Entirely gone.
Anyway, I feel for Las Vegas. It is becoming something else. And maybe not a good something else.
posted by hippybear at 4:58 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
And let's not get into how the construction of the F1 track through Vegas has entirely fucked traffic patterns, if you're brave enough to drive in that zone.
Vegas is not a favorite city of mine, but when I first encountered it in the late Eighties, Luxor had not yet been built and you could get a room and meals for a weekend for $50-60. The first time I walked into Circus Circus I dropped a quarter into one of the flipper machines and it kicked out $40 worth of quarters and that paid for my room and food for the weekend, really cheap but yes.
That's impossible today.
And if you remember Vegas from the Theme Hotel days? Those have been losing theming for ages. And the whole "we make money from the gambling, so hotels and food are affordable?" Entirely gone.
Anyway, I feel for Las Vegas. It is becoming something else. And maybe not a good something else.
posted by hippybear at 4:58 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
Elon Musk bought Twitter to block an account tracking his private jet, book reveals.
posted by Nelson at 1:01 PM on February 12 [2 favorites]
“The billionaire started buying Twitter shares shortly after Agrawal denied his request,” according to an excerpt from “Battle for the Bird” by Bloomberg reporter Kurt Wagner. The book suggests that Musk’s motivation to ban the jet-tracking account was the primary driver behind the $44 billion purchase in November 2022, which left many industry analysts perplexed.I sure with Taylor Swift had bought Twitter instead.
posted by Nelson at 1:01 PM on February 12 [2 favorites]
Also Musk promoted Hyperloop to derail California’s high-speed rail effort, probably partially to help Tesla, but also because Musk just dislikes public transit. Is apartheid why Musk dislikes public transit?
'Musk said public transit was “a pain in the ass” where you were surrounded by strangers, including possible serial killers, to justify his opposition.' @parismarx
posted by jeffburdges at 6:07 AM on February 13
'Musk said public transit was “a pain in the ass” where you were surrounded by strangers, including possible serial killers, to justify his opposition.' @parismarx
posted by jeffburdges at 6:07 AM on February 13
Vegas from the Theme Hotel days? Those have been losing theming for ages. And the whole "we make money from the gambling, so hotels and food are affordable?" Entirely gone.
Lindsey Ellis produced a video history of this exact decline, pointing to the 'what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas' campaign as the turning point, and the 'Wynn' hotel as the new emblem.
Also, Tribal gaming has completely captured the role that Vegas once had, as the largest, seediest gambling spot. To the point where the Seminole Tribe of Florida has acquired a number of Vegas properties
posted by eustatic at 8:30 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Lindsey Ellis produced a video history of this exact decline, pointing to the 'what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas' campaign as the turning point, and the 'Wynn' hotel as the new emblem.
Also, Tribal gaming has completely captured the role that Vegas once had, as the largest, seediest gambling spot. To the point where the Seminole Tribe of Florida has acquired a number of Vegas properties
posted by eustatic at 8:30 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
"...you were surrounded by strangers, including possible serial killers..."
Well, in California, that may not be an overstatement.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:08 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Well, in California, that may not be an overstatement.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:08 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
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