Is that it?
April 5, 2012 12:13 PM Subscribe
It has been no secret that Hillary Clinton has been a ferociously dedicated Secretary of State, visiting 95 countries and keeping mum about both the 2012 elections and her prospects after 2013. But when a photo of her checking her BlackBerry (still popular in DC!) while wearing Chanel-style sunglasses suddenly went viral, a Tumblr was born.
Is she on Air Force One in this picture? Maybe a nuclear submarine?
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:19 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:19 PM on April 5, 2012
It wouldn't take much to convince me she'd actually had just these conversations.
posted by orange swan at 12:19 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 12:19 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
I don't know if I like this or Release The Clinton better.
posted by muddgirl at 12:20 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 12:20 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
REPOOBLICANS ALERT!: She stole Condie's glasses. GLASSESGATE!
posted by hot_monster at 12:21 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by hot_monster at 12:21 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
We know Hillary is bad ass - the Clinton Death List is something like 495,293 people dead of mysterious causes. She's like a ninja.
But Obama has them beat. He's got Chelsea Clinton held hostage in exchange for not releasing information about his real birth certificate.
Don't look at me like that. Respectable - not lamestream - news organizations are covering this. Wake up, Sheeple.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:21 PM on April 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
Such a badass. She'd make an awesome VP.
Or P, for that matter.
posted by Aquaman at 12:23 PM on April 5, 2012 [14 favorites]
Or P, for that matter.
posted by Aquaman at 12:23 PM on April 5, 2012 [14 favorites]
yeah funny whatever
SHE LOOKS WAY TOO MUCH LIKE MY MOM
posted by griphus at 12:28 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
SHE LOOKS WAY TOO MUCH LIKE MY MOM
posted by griphus at 12:28 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
HILLARY IS MY HOMEGIRL.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:28 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:28 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
lolz. bitch please.
posted by ZaneJ. at 12:29 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ZaneJ. at 12:29 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I was okay until the glasses one and then the cackling started.
posted by elizardbits at 12:31 PM on April 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 12:31 PM on April 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
the horrible donkey-like cacklebraying
posted by elizardbits at 12:31 PM on April 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 12:31 PM on April 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
♬ Pictures of Hillary / Help me sleep at niiiiiiight ... ♬
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:31 PM on April 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:31 PM on April 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
What's remarkable to me is that I felt such disdain for her back in 2007/2008, but she has kicked so much ass as Secretary of State that I'd be delighted to see her become president. My opinion of her has done a complete 180, which I could've never in a million years predicted.
posted by shiu mai baby at 12:32 PM on April 5, 2012 [63 favorites]
posted by shiu mai baby at 12:32 PM on April 5, 2012 [63 favorites]
But what happens when she takes the glasses off??
posted by orrnyereg at 12:33 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by orrnyereg at 12:33 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
But what happens when she takes the glasses off??
She accidentally fries people with the ray beams that come out of her eyes. So don't ask her to take them off, okay?
posted by aught at 12:36 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
She accidentally fries people with the ray beams that come out of her eyes. So don't ask her to take them off, okay?
posted by aught at 12:36 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
A political meme that is genuinely funny? Incredible!
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:38 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:38 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
♬ I wear my sunglasses on planes /so I can / so I can / text and watch you speak the party line ♬
posted by griphus at 12:39 PM on April 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by griphus at 12:39 PM on April 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
For further insight into Hillary Clinton's text messaging habbits (no, really), listen to Bill Clinton's surprisingly adorable interview from last year on Wait, Wait. Don't tell me.
posted by schmod at 12:40 PM on April 5, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by schmod at 12:40 PM on April 5, 2012 [13 favorites]
Chanel-style sunglasses
This may be a dumb question from a not-super-into-fashion guy, but I swear it's an honest question -- what makes those "Chanel-style", versus just regular sunglasses? Or is saying "Chanel-style" just a way of implying liberal elite?
posted by inigo2 at 12:41 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
This may be a dumb question from a not-super-into-fashion guy, but I swear it's an honest question -- what makes those "Chanel-style", versus just regular sunglasses? Or is saying "Chanel-style" just a way of implying liberal elite?
posted by inigo2 at 12:41 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
My opinion of her has done a complete 180, which I could've never in a million years predicted.
One of the ways in which Barack is a clearly better President than Bubba: Put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform, fail. Put her in charge of International Diplomacy, BIG SUCCESS.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:41 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
One of the ways in which Barack is a clearly better President than Bubba: Put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform, fail. Put her in charge of International Diplomacy, BIG SUCCESS.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:41 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
That's funny stuff indeed.
posted by BustedCatalyzer at 12:42 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by BustedCatalyzer at 12:42 PM on April 5, 2012
Is she on Air Force One in this picture? Maybe a nuclear submarine?
Bridge of a star destroyer.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:43 PM on April 5, 2012 [19 favorites]
Bridge of a star destroyer.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:43 PM on April 5, 2012 [19 favorites]
Chanel are known for their big, bulbousy women's sunglasses, which are regularly knocked-off hence Chanel-style.
posted by griphus at 12:44 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by griphus at 12:44 PM on April 5, 2012
One of the ways in which Barack is a clearly better President than Bubba
No, President Clinton put his wife on a task force to investigate health care reform. President Obama has a competent and busy Secretary of State. There's a big difference there albeit the same person.
posted by jsavimbi at 12:46 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
No, President Clinton put his wife on a task force to investigate health care reform. President Obama has a competent and busy Secretary of State. There's a big difference there albeit the same person.
posted by jsavimbi at 12:46 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Side note: This is not any sort of negative comment about the content of the Tumblr, joke-wise, but it kind of bums me out to see a photo -- especially a terrific photo like that black and white one -- go quite this far without a photo credit attached to it at all. I'd love it if whoever is doing that Tumblr would do a little Googling and find out who took that photo and at least put it in a sidebar or something.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 12:46 PM on April 5, 2012 [25 favorites]
posted by Linda_Holmes at 12:46 PM on April 5, 2012 [25 favorites]
One of the ways in which Barack is a clearly better President than Bubba: Put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform, fail. Put her in charge of International Diplomacy, BIG SUCCESS.
Clinton: put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
Obama: don't put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
posted by one_bean at 12:47 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
Clinton: put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
Obama: don't put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
posted by one_bean at 12:47 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
Yeah, because it's not as though she has any agency herself.
posted by blucevalo at 12:48 PM on April 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by blucevalo at 12:48 PM on April 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
Aha: Here it is. I'd love to see the Tumblr add this info somewhere.
The color one is Reuters photographer Kevin Lamarque; the black and white is Diana Walker from Time.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 12:49 PM on April 5, 2012 [15 favorites]
The color one is Reuters photographer Kevin Lamarque; the black and white is Diana Walker from Time.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 12:49 PM on April 5, 2012 [15 favorites]
what makes those "Chanel-style", versus just regular sunglasses?
I had this image in the back of my mind that that was the type that Coco Chanel wore (not necessarily the brand itself), but Google Images is leaving me dry. I may have actually been thinking of Jackie O, since I am not exactly Mr. Fashion either.
And not to distract from my own lulz, but the Economist link is pretty interesting too. 70% approval rating! State's first Chief Economist! Wolfowitz saying nice things!
posted by psoas at 12:50 PM on April 5, 2012
I had this image in the back of my mind that that was the type that Coco Chanel wore (not necessarily the brand itself), but Google Images is leaving me dry. I may have actually been thinking of Jackie O, since I am not exactly Mr. Fashion either.
And not to distract from my own lulz, but the Economist link is pretty interesting too. 70% approval rating! State's first Chief Economist! Wolfowitz saying nice things!
posted by psoas at 12:50 PM on April 5, 2012
orrnyereg: But what happens when she takes the glasses off??
hhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaeeeeY!!
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:51 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
hhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaeeeeY!!
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:51 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
> Is she on Air Force One in this picture? Maybe a nuclear submarine?
Looks like a C-17.
Air Force One is not a specific plane. It's a specific plane when the President is on it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:51 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
Looks like a C-17.
Air Force One is not a specific plane. It's a specific plane when the President is on it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:51 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
She accidentally fries people with the ray beams that come out of her eyes.
worst Oglaf crossover ever
posted by elizardbits at 12:53 PM on April 5, 2012 [11 favorites]
worst Oglaf crossover ever
posted by elizardbits at 12:53 PM on April 5, 2012 [11 favorites]
TIME or Atlantic (online) classed Hillary as in the top 5 Secretaries of State. Ben Franklin was never president either.
Losing the opportunity to clean up Dumbya's mess - and get blamed for it as Obama is - was possibly the best thing that could have happened for the campaigns of future female candidates.
posted by Cranberry at 12:54 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Losing the opportunity to clean up Dumbya's mess - and get blamed for it as Obama is - was possibly the best thing that could have happened for the campaigns of future female candidates.
posted by Cranberry at 12:54 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
They should do some unrealistic ones too, just to be funny.
posted by bongo_x at 12:55 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by bongo_x at 12:55 PM on April 5, 2012
Man, do I love her.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:58 PM on April 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:58 PM on April 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
Like a Boss.
posted by TangerineGurl at 12:59 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by TangerineGurl at 12:59 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
She really is doing a supremely good job that next to no one is talking about on a regular basis.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:02 PM on April 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 1:02 PM on April 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
I actually do hope she considers running for 2016. I think the SoS job has given her a very distinctive and separate public persona outside of being the First Lady. One of my major concerns in 08 was the "royal family syndrome". If she can not surround herself with the jackasses that helped run her primary last time I think she would stand a good shot at it.
Mind you that would mean a very real possibility of seeing a Clinton Vs. Bush general election, which n a visceral level makes me kind of want to puke.
posted by edgeways at 1:04 PM on April 5, 2012 [11 favorites]
Mind you that would mean a very real possibility of seeing a Clinton Vs. Bush general election, which n a visceral level makes me kind of want to puke.
posted by edgeways at 1:04 PM on April 5, 2012 [11 favorites]
Anyway, she's clearly in her State Department-issued C-17.
Why does the one in the pictures from Libya say Air Force on the side? Answer: the Department Air Wing doesn't have a C-17.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:07 PM on April 5, 2012
Why does the one in the pictures from Libya say Air Force on the side? Answer: the Department Air Wing doesn't have a C-17.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:07 PM on April 5, 2012
Clinton: put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
Obama: don't put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
What is this I don't even
posted by joe lisboa at 1:08 PM on April 5, 2012
Obama: don't put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
What is this I don't even
posted by joe lisboa at 1:08 PM on April 5, 2012
We know Hillary is bad ass - the Clinton Death List is something like 495,293 people dead of mysterious causes. She's like a ninja.
And that's not taking into account her participation in the Rwanda genocide. Tutsis and Hutus alike still tremble in fear when they speak of the white lady with large thighs and an unquechable thirst for fresh blood.
posted by squalor at 1:11 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
And that's not taking into account her participation in the Rwanda genocide. Tutsis and Hutus alike still tremble in fear when they speak of the white lady with large thighs and an unquechable thirst for fresh blood.
posted by squalor at 1:11 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Right, but most people associate Air Force One with the iconic modified Boeing 747 (technically a VC-25). Anyway, she's clearly in her State Department-issued C-17.
So, then, hers is bigger ?
posted by y2karl at 1:13 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Clinton: put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
Obama: don't put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
What is this I don't even
posted by joe lisboa at 4:08 PM on April 5 [+] [!]
Argh, how much longer will "what is this I don't even" be making the rounds around here? Grar.
posted by headnsouth at 1:14 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama: don't put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
What is this I don't even
posted by joe lisboa at 4:08 PM on April 5 [+] [!]
Argh, how much longer will "what is this I don't even" be making the rounds around here? Grar.
posted by headnsouth at 1:14 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Clinton: put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
Obama: don't put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
What is this I don't even
If I may speak for one_bean, I'd say that Obamacare is a qualified success at best, and health care reform is really, really hard, so we shouldn't blame either Clinton if Hillary didn't pull it off the first time around.
posted by BrashTech at 1:15 PM on April 5, 2012
Obama: don't put Hillary in charge of Health Care Reform: fail
What is this I don't even
If I may speak for one_bean, I'd say that Obamacare is a qualified success at best, and health care reform is really, really hard, so we shouldn't blame either Clinton if Hillary didn't pull it off the first time around.
posted by BrashTech at 1:15 PM on April 5, 2012
What's remarkable to me is that I felt such disdain for her back in 2007/2008
This was profoundly baffling to me at the time, that so many people who had adored her as First Lady and Senator changed their attitude towards her (and Bill) in the Dem primary. Many of them even disdained me for continuing to adore her. I still think she would have made a better choice.
I'm torn between wishing she'd run again and dreading the concomitant abuse she'd have to take all over again. Obviously she can take it, but it bothers me. Still.
I think the only conclusion you can draw between her health care effort and her absolute mastery of State is that the former task was just too small for her. Or she underestimated the malice of her opposition.
posted by caryatid at 1:16 PM on April 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
This was profoundly baffling to me at the time, that so many people who had adored her as First Lady and Senator changed their attitude towards her (and Bill) in the Dem primary. Many of them even disdained me for continuing to adore her. I still think she would have made a better choice.
I'm torn between wishing she'd run again and dreading the concomitant abuse she'd have to take all over again. Obviously she can take it, but it bothers me. Still.
I think the only conclusion you can draw between her health care effort and her absolute mastery of State is that the former task was just too small for her. Or she underestimated the malice of her opposition.
posted by caryatid at 1:16 PM on April 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
From her Wikipedia entry: "Throughout her term, Clinton had indicated she had no interest in running for president again[317] or in holding any other office. In March 2011, she expanded upon that by saying she was not interested in serving a second term as Secretary of State should Obama be re-elected in 2012.[312][318]"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:17 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:17 PM on April 5, 2012
Oh God that is teh Funny! Oh Hillary, you rage on, crush and crush!
posted by newdaddy at 1:24 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by newdaddy at 1:24 PM on April 5, 2012
She really is doing a supremely good job that next to no one is talking about on a regular basis.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:02 PM on April 5 [+] [!]
wisdom from Futurama
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
posted by kanemano at 1:29 PM on April 5, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 1:02 PM on April 5 [+] [!]
wisdom from Futurama
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
posted by kanemano at 1:29 PM on April 5, 2012 [23 favorites]
She really is doing a supremely good job that next to no one is talking about on a regular basis
Generally a sign things are going quite well.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:30 PM on April 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
Generally a sign things are going quite well.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:30 PM on April 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
If only she hadn't lied about the sniper fire in Bosnia.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:30 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:30 PM on April 5, 2012
this brings a glee to me that i cannot explain. i don't even like all of her politics. it's the image of a women occupying space and power and cool that gets to me, i think.
posted by anya32 at 1:32 PM on April 5, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by anya32 at 1:32 PM on April 5, 2012 [14 favorites]
Ain't it good to be a gangsta.
posted by incandissonance at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by incandissonance at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2012
In March 2011, she expanded upon that by saying she was not interested in serving a second term as Secretary of State should Obama be re-elected in 2012
Most don't; it strikes me as one of those jobs that might kill you if you try to do it for 8 years. Ithink hope that she will take a year or two off to relax, write a book, and then get geared up for 2016!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Most don't; it strikes me as one of those jobs that might kill you if you try to do it for 8 years. I
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
The sunglasses one is hilarious.
posted by zarq at 1:35 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by zarq at 1:35 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have always loved Hillary. This does nothing but make me love her more.
Lolz.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:41 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Lolz.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:41 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
She's much too intelligent to stay in politics - unfortunately.
posted by Ochiee at 1:45 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by Ochiee at 1:45 PM on April 5, 2012
She's ethically obligated to run for President to get the rancid Palin taste out of America's mouth once and for all.
posted by Renoroc at 1:48 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Renoroc at 1:48 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think hope that she will take a year or two off to relax, write a book, and then get geared up for 2016!
It's worth considering that she would be 69 years old when inaugurated. If she were successful enough to be reelected, she'd be 77 at the end of her presidency. Age would be an issue. (I've consistently expressed this concern about other presidential candidates who are in their late 60s or 70s.)
posted by John Cohen at 1:51 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's worth considering that she would be 69 years old when inaugurated. If she were successful enough to be reelected, she'd be 77 at the end of her presidency. Age would be an issue. (I've consistently expressed this concern about other presidential candidates who are in their late 60s or 70s.)
posted by John Cohen at 1:51 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
As much as I was rooting for a HRC presidency 2 years ago, I don't think we as a country can elect a person in their late 60s to be president in the Age of Television. Obama (quite intentionally) appeared downright sprightly next to the 72-year-old John McCain.
On the other hand, maybe when she's 69, voters (or really, media pundits) with mommy issues will have less of a problem with her.
posted by muddgirl at 2:01 PM on April 5, 2012
On the other hand, maybe when she's 69, voters (or really, media pundits) with mommy issues will have less of a problem with her.
posted by muddgirl at 2:01 PM on April 5, 2012
And that's not taking into account her participation in the Rwanda genocide.
Don't forget the indirect deaths via the US Food policy that William said he regretted. But food policy fail goes back years including Nixon's Earl "loose shooes" Butz so one can't lay it ALL at Clinton feet.
Besides - as long as Rush Limbaugh is on the air thee will always be Clinton alerts.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:01 PM on April 5, 2012
Don't forget the indirect deaths via the US Food policy that William said he regretted. But food policy fail goes back years including Nixon's Earl "loose shooes" Butz so one can't lay it ALL at Clinton feet.
Besides - as long as Rush Limbaugh is on the air thee will always be Clinton alerts.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:01 PM on April 5, 2012
This is not intended to be snark: why is Clinton considered to be such a great Secretary of State? You've got unsanctioned American drone attacks on Pakistan (and not to mention the unauthorized, de facto illegal assassination of OBL in Pakistan), deteriorating relations with China, an attempt by the Obama administration to prop up Mubarrek in Egypt, oil sanctions on Iran that may or may not work, but in the meantime are creating havoc in Europe and Japan, virtually no ability to affect change in the European debt crisis, climate change talks collapse...
I think she is a nice lady (nicer than her Bush-era predecessors) and competent, but can't see the foreign policy wins.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:02 PM on April 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
I think she is a nice lady (nicer than her Bush-era predecessors) and competent, but can't see the foreign policy wins.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:02 PM on April 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
This is not intended to be snark: why is Clinton considered to be such a great Secretary of State? You've got unsanctioned American drone attacks on Pakistan...
She doesn't make those decisions. Her boss does. What she does is try putting out the fires and smoothing the ruffles her boss raises. Bet she visits Canada and Mexico soon.
posted by codswallop at 2:12 PM on April 5, 2012
She doesn't make those decisions. Her boss does. What she does is try putting out the fires and smoothing the ruffles her boss raises. Bet she visits Canada and Mexico soon.
posted by codswallop at 2:12 PM on April 5, 2012
squalor: "And that's not taking into account her participation in the Rwanda genocide"
I know, flags/metatalk and all, but can we please not do genocide jokes around here?
posted by schmod at 2:23 PM on April 5, 2012 [6 favorites]
I know, flags/metatalk and all, but can we please not do genocide jokes around here?
posted by schmod at 2:23 PM on April 5, 2012 [6 favorites]
I don't think we're ever going to see Hillary as POTUS. And it's a shame, really. It was a matter of timing. 2008 would have been her time, but Obama came out of nowhere and blew her out of the water, and now she'll be too old to run in 2016. What I really wish is that she hadn't spent so many years supporting her husband's career. People accuse her of hitching her wagon to Bill's star, but this is a woman who was featured in Life magazine for making waves as a university student before she ever met Bill. I believe she'd be a household name even if she'd never met him, and I wish we could have gotten to see what she could do in the White House.
posted by orange swan at 2:36 PM on April 5, 2012 [16 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 2:36 PM on April 5, 2012 [16 favorites]
What has she done that is so great as Sec State? (Not trolling, really want to know.)
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:38 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:38 PM on April 5, 2012
What's happening in Burma under Clinton/Obama's influence is jaw-droppingly fantastic
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:41 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:41 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
Sometimes I dream that I wake up in an alternate world where she is President and it makes me so. fucking. happy.
Alas.
posted by lydhre at 2:46 PM on April 5, 2012
Alas.
posted by lydhre at 2:46 PM on April 5, 2012
I hope that she will take a year or two off to relax, write a book, and then get geared up for 2016!
OMG, no. I hope she throws her hat in the ring the next time there's an opening on the Supreme Court. Getting her on the bench would require an extraordinary set of circumstances, but it's fun to imagine a world in which Scalia or Thomas is off the bench and Clinton is on the Roberts court.
posted by sobell at 2:51 PM on April 5, 2012 [14 favorites]
OMG, no. I hope she throws her hat in the ring the next time there's an opening on the Supreme Court. Getting her on the bench would require an extraordinary set of circumstances, but it's fun to imagine a world in which Scalia or Thomas is off the bench and Clinton is on the Roberts court.
posted by sobell at 2:51 PM on April 5, 2012 [14 favorites]
It is even more fun to imagine a world where Scalia and Thomas are forced to compete in the Hunger Games.
posted by elizardbits at 2:56 PM on April 5, 2012 [52 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 2:56 PM on April 5, 2012 [52 favorites]
What's happening in Burma under Clinton/Obama's influence is jaw-droppingly fantastic
I think what's happening in Burma is fantastic, and kudos should go to Clinton for leadership, but it's a regional effort with a lot of heavy-lifting done by Japan.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:04 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think what's happening in Burma is fantastic, and kudos should go to Clinton for leadership, but it's a regional effort with a lot of heavy-lifting done by Japan.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:04 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
You've got unsanctioned American drone attacks on Pakistan
Unsactioned? By whom? The Pakistani government approves those strikes, we strike Pakistani Taliban on their orders (who they fight in the mountains) and then they make noises to complain. Until April 21, 2011, the Pakistanis actually allowed the drones to operate out of Shamshi Pakistani Air Force base. It was only November 2011 when the Americans finally left.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:09 PM on April 5, 2012
Unsactioned? By whom? The Pakistani government approves those strikes, we strike Pakistani Taliban on their orders (who they fight in the mountains) and then they make noises to complain. Until April 21, 2011, the Pakistanis actually allowed the drones to operate out of Shamshi Pakistani Air Force base. It was only November 2011 when the Americans finally left.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:09 PM on April 5, 2012
This was funny, but I wished they had left out the Monica Lewinsky joke. I mean, hasn't Hillary finally earned release from that tired association? (It was even more disappointing because I initially read Bill as saying "Hey, hon...".)
posted by sundaydriver at 3:10 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by sundaydriver at 3:10 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
(and not to mention the unauthorized, de facto illegal assassination of OBL in Pakistan),
The attack on Bin Laden was legally authorized by Public Law 107-40, passed September 18, 2001. He has no Fourth Amendment rights as a non-U.S. citizen outside the boundaries of the United States. United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, 494 U.S. 259 (1990).
posted by Ironmouth at 3:12 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
The attack on Bin Laden was legally authorized by Public Law 107-40, passed September 18, 2001. He has no Fourth Amendment rights as a non-U.S. citizen outside the boundaries of the United States. United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, 494 U.S. 259 (1990).
posted by Ironmouth at 3:12 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think there is some debate as whether or not drone attacks in Pakistan are sanctioned by Pakistan itself, but, getting back to the topic about Clinton's success as a Secretary of State, but, unless you're a fan of amoral Realpolitik,you can hardly call the drone campaign in Pakistan effective foreign policy. The drone campaign may please the generals, but it's also destabilizing the country.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:14 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by KokuRyu at 3:14 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
No one says that the Obama administration, through Secretary Clinton, deserves 100% of the credit for any positives in the world.
Honestly (and I say this as a Hillary supporter), I think a lot of the positive impressions of Secretary Clinton come from two sources: (1) She is the first Secretary of State in recent memory to stand up and say, "Women are an important factor in world politics and economics" (and not just as a platitude but as an important driver of foreign policy and diplomacy), (2) She gets a lot of positive transferrance from Obama supporters who are disillusioned with Obama's policy decisions. She is the one who gets to stand up and make grand speeches about, for example, the role of free and unrestricted internet access in overturning dictators, without getting her hands dirty with domestic internet restrictions.
I think it would be interesting to see what the US reaction would be to President H. Clinton, say, declaring Libya to be a no-fly zone. She was already perceived as much more hawkish than Obama, but I don't know if that means she would have been subject to more censure or if it would have been more expected or what.
getting back to the topic about Clinton's success as a Secretary of State, but, unless you're a fan of amoral Realpolitik,you can hardly call the drone campaign in Pakistan effective foreign policy
But again, Clinton doesn't call the shots on the drone program - I don't think she has that kind of relationship with the Obama administration. Her job is to justify the drone campaign and sell it to our allies. Whether or not she's done that successfully is a different question.
posted by muddgirl at 3:17 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Honestly (and I say this as a Hillary supporter), I think a lot of the positive impressions of Secretary Clinton come from two sources: (1) She is the first Secretary of State in recent memory to stand up and say, "Women are an important factor in world politics and economics" (and not just as a platitude but as an important driver of foreign policy and diplomacy), (2) She gets a lot of positive transferrance from Obama supporters who are disillusioned with Obama's policy decisions. She is the one who gets to stand up and make grand speeches about, for example, the role of free and unrestricted internet access in overturning dictators, without getting her hands dirty with domestic internet restrictions.
I think it would be interesting to see what the US reaction would be to President H. Clinton, say, declaring Libya to be a no-fly zone. She was already perceived as much more hawkish than Obama, but I don't know if that means she would have been subject to more censure or if it would have been more expected or what.
getting back to the topic about Clinton's success as a Secretary of State, but, unless you're a fan of amoral Realpolitik,you can hardly call the drone campaign in Pakistan effective foreign policy
But again, Clinton doesn't call the shots on the drone program - I don't think she has that kind of relationship with the Obama administration. Her job is to justify the drone campaign and sell it to our allies. Whether or not she's done that successfully is a different question.
posted by muddgirl at 3:17 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thanks Ironmouth for responding to my question, but, once again, was the attack on OBL legal under international law?
I don't think these are quibbling little questions. The Obama administration has really shown a flagrant disregard for sovereignty and international law. Sure, it's an effective approach if you happen to be an American citizen (unless of course, you are an American citizen targeted for extrajudicial assassination), but non-American citizens may be less than impressed.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:17 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't think these are quibbling little questions. The Obama administration has really shown a flagrant disregard for sovereignty and international law. Sure, it's an effective approach if you happen to be an American citizen (unless of course, you are an American citizen targeted for extrajudicial assassination), but non-American citizens may be less than impressed.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:17 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
But again, Clinton doesn't call the shots on the drone program - I don't think she has that kind of relationship with the Obama administration. Her job is to justify the drone campaign and sell it to our allies
I'm going to shut up now, but this is another question I had: why is "successfully selling" these sorts of policies somehow admirable?
posted by KokuRyu at 3:20 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm going to shut up now, but this is another question I had: why is "successfully selling" these sorts of policies somehow admirable?
posted by KokuRyu at 3:20 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
The tangential answer is that Clinton isn't actually admired because she does her job well (which I think she does). Clinton is admired because she's a very competent speaker, she is a competent diplomat and statesman, and she has good optics.
Or in other words, Clinton is a good Secretary of State and she's an admired Secretary of State, but not necessarily for the same reasons.
posted by muddgirl at 3:23 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Or in other words, Clinton is a good Secretary of State and she's an admired Secretary of State, but not necessarily for the same reasons.
posted by muddgirl at 3:23 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
why is Clinton considered to be such a great Secretary of State?
By comparison to her predecessor...
posted by ovvl at 3:25 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
By comparison to her predecessor...
posted by ovvl at 3:25 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
What's remarkable to me is that I felt such disdain for her back in 2007/2008, but she has kicked so much ass as Secretary of State that I'd be delighted to see her become president. My opinion of her has done a complete 180, which I could've never in a million years predicted.
A lot of people have done a 180 on the guy she lost to, and deservedly so.
posted by Vibrissae at 3:48 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
A lot of people have done a 180 on the guy she lost to, and deservedly so.
posted by Vibrissae at 3:48 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Thanks Ironmouth for responding to my question, but, once again, was the attack on OBL legal under international law?
I don't think these are quibbling little questions. The Obama administration has really shown a flagrant disregard for sovereignty and international law. Sure, it's an effective approach if you happen to be an American citizen (unless of course, you are an American citizen targeted for extrajudicial assassination), but non-American citizens may be less than impressed.
You're the one saying it was illegal. I pointed out it was legally authorized by U.S. Statute and that OBL lacked Fourth Amendment protections. If you have some sort of other law you'd like to provide a citation to, have at it. But the idea that it is "illegal" makes no sense. The guy was the head of an operation that launched the greatest terrorist attack ever, killing almost 3,000 individuals on US soil and directly attacked the headquarters of our military and destroyed the largest buildings in our largest city. That's an act of war. Our government, by a vote of 420-1 in the House and 98-0 in the Senate voted to authorize action against "nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons."
That's perfectly legal by my book.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:49 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't think these are quibbling little questions. The Obama administration has really shown a flagrant disregard for sovereignty and international law. Sure, it's an effective approach if you happen to be an American citizen (unless of course, you are an American citizen targeted for extrajudicial assassination), but non-American citizens may be less than impressed.
You're the one saying it was illegal. I pointed out it was legally authorized by U.S. Statute and that OBL lacked Fourth Amendment protections. If you have some sort of other law you'd like to provide a citation to, have at it. But the idea that it is "illegal" makes no sense. The guy was the head of an operation that launched the greatest terrorist attack ever, killing almost 3,000 individuals on US soil and directly attacked the headquarters of our military and destroyed the largest buildings in our largest city. That's an act of war. Our government, by a vote of 420-1 in the House and 98-0 in the Senate voted to authorize action against "nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons."
That's perfectly legal by my book.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:49 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
But what happens when she takes the glasses off??
Shit gets real.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 3:55 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
Shit gets real.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 3:55 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
I was not expecting to find this so funny. Had to hold back giggling.
posted by epersonae at 3:59 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by epersonae at 3:59 PM on April 5, 2012
You're the one saying it was illegal. I pointed out it was legally authorized by U.S. Statute
Look, I'm not the only one, and I might remind you that US Statute only covers the United States.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:07 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Look, I'm not the only one, and I might remind you that US Statute only covers the United States.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:07 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
an attempt by the Obama administration to prop up Mubarrek in Egypt
Even worse, when the current administration was flailing around trying to figure out how it should handle the Tahrir Square revolution - this was only a year ago; surprising it's so easily forgotten - it was Clinton who spouted garbage that Omar "let me torture them myself" Suleiman should be the new president. Surely folks remember Suleiman:
In Egypt, as Habib recounts in his memoir, My Story: The Tale of a Terrorist Who Wasn’t, he was repeatedly subjected to electric shocks, immersed in water up to his nostrils and beaten. His fingers were broken and he was hung from metal hooks. At one point, his interrogator slapped him so hard that his blindfold was dislodged, revealing the identity of his tormentor: Suleiman.
Frustrated that Habib was not providing useful information or confessing to involvement in terrorism, Suleiman ordered a guard to murder a shackled prisoner in front of Habib, which he did with a vicious karate kick. In April 2002, after five months in Egypt, Habib was rendered to American custody at Bagram prison in Afghanistan - and then transported to Guantanamo. On January 11, 2005, the day before he was scheduled to be charged, Dana Priest of the Washington Post published an exposé about Habib’s torture. The US government immediately announced that he would not be charged and would be repatriated to Australia.
Not sure anyone topping my list of best Secretaries of State would have held up a torturer as the next step in Egyptian democracy.
But the Tumblr is cute, so there's that.
posted by mediareport at 4:35 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Even worse, when the current administration was flailing around trying to figure out how it should handle the Tahrir Square revolution - this was only a year ago; surprising it's so easily forgotten - it was Clinton who spouted garbage that Omar "let me torture them myself" Suleiman should be the new president. Surely folks remember Suleiman:
In Egypt, as Habib recounts in his memoir, My Story: The Tale of a Terrorist Who Wasn’t, he was repeatedly subjected to electric shocks, immersed in water up to his nostrils and beaten. His fingers were broken and he was hung from metal hooks. At one point, his interrogator slapped him so hard that his blindfold was dislodged, revealing the identity of his tormentor: Suleiman.
Frustrated that Habib was not providing useful information or confessing to involvement in terrorism, Suleiman ordered a guard to murder a shackled prisoner in front of Habib, which he did with a vicious karate kick. In April 2002, after five months in Egypt, Habib was rendered to American custody at Bagram prison in Afghanistan - and then transported to Guantanamo. On January 11, 2005, the day before he was scheduled to be charged, Dana Priest of the Washington Post published an exposé about Habib’s torture. The US government immediately announced that he would not be charged and would be repatriated to Australia.
Not sure anyone topping my list of best Secretaries of State would have held up a torturer as the next step in Egyptian democracy.
But the Tumblr is cute, so there's that.
posted by mediareport at 4:35 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Throughout her term, Clinton had indicated she had no interest in running for president again[317] or in holding any other office. In March 2011, she expanded upon that by saying she was not interested in serving a second term as Secretary of State should Obama be re-elected in 2012.
:(
posted by triggerfinger at 4:50 PM on April 5, 2012
:(
posted by triggerfinger at 4:50 PM on April 5, 2012
Folks who want a Secretary of State to be some kind of moral paragon don't know what a Secretary of State is supposed to do.
posted by tommyD at 4:55 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by tommyD at 4:55 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
Whenever I see Ms. Clinton, I think about her 2002 vote to authorize the war in Iraq, and I get angry.
I have a lot of trouble moving on from that.
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:56 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
I have a lot of trouble moving on from that.
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:56 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
Folks who want a Secretary of State to be some kind of moral paragon don't know what a Secretary of State is supposed to do.
It was stupid in a RealPolitik way as well as amoral. You don't have to be ignorant of "what a Secretary of State is supposed to do" to have seen at the time that it was the wrong move. I think Sulieman lasted two weeks before disappearing from sight for the long haul.
posted by mediareport at 4:59 PM on April 5, 2012
It was stupid in a RealPolitik way as well as amoral. You don't have to be ignorant of "what a Secretary of State is supposed to do" to have seen at the time that it was the wrong move. I think Sulieman lasted two weeks before disappearing from sight for the long haul.
posted by mediareport at 4:59 PM on April 5, 2012
All this gushing is sexist. If Clinton was a man, many of the people fawning in this thread would be deriding her as the greasy, cynical politician she is, who thinks the electorate is stupid.
I guess everyone's also forgotten the 2008 Dem race, where she was clearly beaten and yet refused to drop out in the hopes that the Superdelegates would subvert democracy and install her to the post that she felt entitled to?
If you really believe that the sexes are equal, then a woman politician is just as accountable for her transgressions as a man. And I don't think a man who pulled similar shit would be getting buffed like this.
The thought of a woman being president is a beautiful symbol of the equality that this country is supposed to embody. But in practice, it's only going to be beautiful if that woman manages to be more than the same product that every post-war election has given us.
Give me Madeline Albright any day. Or anyone else that doesn't flagrantly shit on the First Amendment to try and woo idiots.
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:01 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I guess everyone's also forgotten the 2008 Dem race, where she was clearly beaten and yet refused to drop out in the hopes that the Superdelegates would subvert democracy and install her to the post that she felt entitled to?
If you really believe that the sexes are equal, then a woman politician is just as accountable for her transgressions as a man. And I don't think a man who pulled similar shit would be getting buffed like this.
The thought of a woman being president is a beautiful symbol of the equality that this country is supposed to embody. But in practice, it's only going to be beautiful if that woman manages to be more than the same product that every post-war election has given us.
Give me Madeline Albright any day. Or anyone else that doesn't flagrantly shit on the First Amendment to try and woo idiots.
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:01 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Allow me to immediately dissociate myself from Mayor Curley's opening statement. The gushing seems to me blithely forgetful of very recent history, but I don't see any evidence it's sexist.
posted by mediareport at 5:03 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 5:03 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thanks Ironmouth for responding to my question, but, once again, was the attack on OBL legal under international law
I have no idea. Generally, the person advancing the claim--in this case, you, is responsible for providing the evidence to support the claim. You stated it was illegal. I provided evidence of law showing it was legal. You need to provide evidence that it wasn't.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:04 PM on April 5, 2012
I have no idea. Generally, the person advancing the claim--in this case, you, is responsible for providing the evidence to support the claim. You stated it was illegal. I provided evidence of law showing it was legal. You need to provide evidence that it wasn't.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:04 PM on April 5, 2012
Ironmouth, you're fudging in a very obvious way. The question was specifically about international law. You responded with a cite to US law - i.e., you didn't answer the question. If you don't know the answer to the question asked, then just say so.
posted by mediareport at 5:05 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 5:05 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
My kingdom for a Madeline Albright tumblr....
We got our 2nd kitty, Maddy, in 1998. One of her many nicknames was Madeline Notbright, usually when she did something extra-silly. I miss that cat.
posted by epersonae at 5:06 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
We got our 2nd kitty, Maddy, in 1998. One of her many nicknames was Madeline Notbright, usually when she did something extra-silly. I miss that cat.
posted by epersonae at 5:06 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
You're the one saying it was illegal. I pointed out it was legally authorized by U.S. Statute
Look, I'm not the only one, and I might remind you that US Statute only covers the United States.
Uh, no. Please provide a single cite to support that. US law regulates all US government conduct anywhere in the world. I work with the US code every day and there are dozens of laws that only regulate US conduct only overseas. The AUMF regulated US conduct overseas.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:09 PM on April 5, 2012
Look, I'm not the only one, and I might remind you that US Statute only covers the United States.
Uh, no. Please provide a single cite to support that. US law regulates all US government conduct anywhere in the world. I work with the US code every day and there are dozens of laws that only regulate US conduct only overseas. The AUMF regulated US conduct overseas.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:09 PM on April 5, 2012
But in practice, it's only going to be beautiful if that woman manages to be more than the same product that every post-war election has given us.
Now that's sexist.
posted by caryatid at 5:10 PM on April 5, 2012
Now that's sexist.
posted by caryatid at 5:10 PM on April 5, 2012
Ironmouth, you're fudging in a very obvious way. The question was specifically about international law. You responded with a cite to US law - i.e., you didn't answer the question. If you don't know the answer to the question asked, then just say so.
Really? So someone makes a wild assertion that something is illegal, and I provide a cite showing it was authorized by law, and now I'm required to show that it was illegal even though the other person has not provided a single shred of evidence? No. It is the responsibility of the person made the original statement to provide evidence it is true. I'm not going to sit here and disprove a claim totally unsupported by any evidence whatsoever.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:20 PM on April 5, 2012
Really? So someone makes a wild assertion that something is illegal, and I provide a cite showing it was authorized by law, and now I'm required to show that it was illegal even though the other person has not provided a single shred of evidence? No. It is the responsibility of the person made the original statement to provide evidence it is true. I'm not going to sit here and disprove a claim totally unsupported by any evidence whatsoever.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:20 PM on April 5, 2012
I guess everyone's also forgotten the 2008 Dem race, where she was clearly beaten and yet refused to drop out in the hopes that the Superdelegates would subvert democracy and install her to the post that she felt entitled to?
She wasn't throwing a fit on the convention floor, she ran her campaign until it was over, which is her right and which is what her supporters donated money for her to do, and then she got up and told everyone to support Barack Obama in the general election. Did you forget that part?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:25 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
She wasn't throwing a fit on the convention floor, she ran her campaign until it was over, which is her right and which is what her supporters donated money for her to do, and then she got up and told everyone to support Barack Obama in the general election. Did you forget that part?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:25 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
> It's worth considering that she would be 69 years old when inaugurated. If she were successful enough to be reelected, she'd be 77 at the end of her presidency. Age would be an issue. (I've consistently expressed this concern about other presidential candidates who are in their late 60s or 70s.)
I was slightly saddened when I did the maths and realised the same thing about my dream candidate Elizabeth Warren. (I say slightly because, well... it was only ever a dream...)
posted by adamt at 5:26 PM on April 5, 2012
I was slightly saddened when I did the maths and realised the same thing about my dream candidate Elizabeth Warren. (I say slightly because, well... it was only ever a dream...)
posted by adamt at 5:26 PM on April 5, 2012
was the attack on OBL legal under international law
International law is weakly defined and ambiguous at the best of times, and the Bin Laden killing isn't an exception. A quick Google backs me up on that.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:31 PM on April 5, 2012
International law is weakly defined and ambiguous at the best of times, and the Bin Laden killing isn't an exception. A quick Google backs me up on that.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:31 PM on April 5, 2012
I work with the US code every day and there are dozens of laws that only regulate US conduct only overseas.
Oh great, I'm arguing with a lawyer. Sure, fine, taking out OBL was legal. Drone strikes are legal. Assassinating American citizens is legal. It's all legal. You win.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:31 PM on April 5, 2012
Oh great, I'm arguing with a lawyer. Sure, fine, taking out OBL was legal. Drone strikes are legal. Assassinating American citizens is legal. It's all legal. You win.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:31 PM on April 5, 2012
While everyone was rehashing Hillary vs. Obama, I was making this. Dunno if they'll post it.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:34 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:34 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm not going to sit here and disprove a claim totally unsupported by any evidence whatsoever.
The person you're arguing with clearly said they were interested in the legality under international law. You responded with an irrelevancy. I'm not sure what the confusion is here.
posted by mediareport at 5:36 PM on April 5, 2012
The person you're arguing with clearly said they were interested in the legality under international law. You responded with an irrelevancy. I'm not sure what the confusion is here.
posted by mediareport at 5:36 PM on April 5, 2012
>But in practice, it's only going to be beautiful if that woman manages to be more than the same product that every post-war election has given us.
Now that's sexist.
Yeah, feel free to willfully misconstrue.
How about this: "Every presidential election we've had since the 40's has served us a shit sandwich, and there won't be a reason to smile about it until the victor isn't some bought-and-paid-for tool of the corporate interests that are stripping the country like a hot car. Regardless of their gender."
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:39 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Now that's sexist.
Yeah, feel free to willfully misconstrue.
How about this: "Every presidential election we've had since the 40's has served us a shit sandwich, and there won't be a reason to smile about it until the victor isn't some bought-and-paid-for tool of the corporate interests that are stripping the country like a hot car. Regardless of their gender."
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:39 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
and then she got up and told everyone to support Barack Obama in the general election. Did you forget that part?
Yeah, how big of her to tell her supporters to do the thing they were going to do without her prompting. What was her other option? Flail around frothing and scream "fuck you all! I am your rightful leader?" What would she have gained from doing anything except the course that she took?
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:42 PM on April 5, 2012
Yeah, how big of her to tell her supporters to do the thing they were going to do without her prompting. What was her other option? Flail around frothing and scream "fuck you all! I am your rightful leader?" What would she have gained from doing anything except the course that she took?
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:42 PM on April 5, 2012
"Every presidential election we've had since the 40's has served us a shit sandwich, and there won't be a reason to smile about it until the victor isn't some bought-and-paid-for tool of the corporate interests that are stripping the country like a hot car. Regardless of their gender."
Much better.
posted by caryatid at 6:07 PM on April 5, 2012
Much better.
posted by caryatid at 6:07 PM on April 5, 2012
I like this. I like Hillary. I did not like the campaign she ran in 2008.
posted by schmod at 6:24 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by schmod at 6:24 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
lolz. bitch please.
Yeah, that's my favorite one too but somehow I imagine that any e-mail from Sarah gets headed off by Hillary's junk mail filter.
and this trial balloon-floating about her running for president in 2016? bish plz
posted by fuse theorem at 6:30 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that's my favorite one too but somehow I imagine that any e-mail from Sarah gets headed off by Hillary's junk mail filter.
and this trial balloon-floating about her running for president in 2016? bish plz
posted by fuse theorem at 6:30 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
What's happening in Burma under Clinton/Obama's influence is jaw-droppingly fantastic
The Americans helped, but there was a lot of regional heavy-lifting. Give us *some* credit alright; this is our sphere, if Myanmar blows up, we'd be the ones dealing with the social or humanitarian fallout.
posted by the cydonian at 7:07 PM on April 5, 2012
The Americans helped, but there was a lot of regional heavy-lifting. Give us *some* credit alright; this is our sphere, if Myanmar blows up, we'd be the ones dealing with the social or humanitarian fallout.
posted by the cydonian at 7:07 PM on April 5, 2012
What's happening in Burma under Clinton/Obama's influence is jaw-droppingly fantastic
The Americans helped, but there was a lot of regional heavy-lifting. Give us *some* credit alright; this is our sphere, if Myanmar blows up, we'd be the ones dealing with the social or humanitarian fallout.
It is the Burmese who have done this with blood and sacrifice. You can bet that if it blows up, the Burmese people who will be dealing with the fallout. We'll be secure behind our computer screens.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:00 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Americans helped, but there was a lot of regional heavy-lifting. Give us *some* credit alright; this is our sphere, if Myanmar blows up, we'd be the ones dealing with the social or humanitarian fallout.
It is the Burmese who have done this with blood and sacrifice. You can bet that if it blows up, the Burmese people who will be dealing with the fallout. We'll be secure behind our computer screens.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:00 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
How about this: "Every presidential election we've had since the 40's has served us a shit sandwich, and there won't be a reason to smile about it until the victor isn't some bought-and-paid-for tool of the corporate interests that are stripping the country like a hot car. Regardless of their gender."
I understand your position, but I disagree.
posted by jacalata at 9:01 PM on April 5, 2012
I understand your position, but I disagree.
posted by jacalata at 9:01 PM on April 5, 2012
Mod note: A couple of comments deleted. Maybe we can avoid making this a full-on Bin Laden death thread, and Ironmouth, not sure what's up with repeated comments all saying the same thing in response to the same comment, but you can take it to email if you need to continue with that.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:44 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 11:44 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
*guffaw*
Let's not pretend her behavior during the campaign wasn't worthy of derision.
Anyway, when it comes to international diplomacy, how exactly can the average person really form an opinion? A lot of that stuff happens behind closed doors. What are some specific accomplishments that she's had as SoS?
Someone mentioned Burma, but clearly you'd have to give Aung San Suu Kyi most of the credit right? What about China? If U.S. pressure on China to pressure burma is what caused the change, and it all happens behind closed doors, then how can you assign her credit?
Obviously compared to Colin Powel, who's major accomplishment was getting scammed into claiming there were WMDs in Iraq, or Condi Rice, who sucked. How does she compare to Madelein Albright, or for that matter in terms of effectiveness how does she compare to Henry Kissenger? (on the other hand there were a lot of people in between them that I didn't really know much about)
Looking back, I'd guess Bush I and Gerald Ford were not that good looking. Both had been veeps and ford was appointed. And on top of that Bush I ran against Michael Dukakis, not really the studliest democrat in history.
--
Anyway, a lot of these pictures are funny. [1, 2, 3]
posted by delmoi at 1:36 AM on April 6, 2012
What's remarkable to me is that I felt such disdain for her back in 2007/2008, but she has kicked so much ass as Secretary of State that I'd be delighted to see her become president. My opinion of her has done a complete 180, which I could've never in a million years predicted.It's a good illustration on why people shouldn't vote based on how they feel about personality. She's obviously the same person she was in '08. Hillary fans also absolutely loathed Obama, and that all went away when he won the primary (except for a few bitter clingers, of course)
This was profoundly baffling to me at the time, that so many people who had adored her as First Lady and Senator changed their attitude towards her (and Bill) in the Dem primary. Many of them even disdained me for continuing to adore her. I still think she would have made a better choice.Well, she was behaving in a really obnoxious, and frankly, kind of pathetic way. Why would it be surprising that, if someone you like starts acting like a dick all of a sudden, you might not like them anymore? They stop acting like that, you might start to like them again.
Let's not pretend her behavior during the campaign wasn't worthy of derision.
Anyway, when it comes to international diplomacy, how exactly can the average person really form an opinion? A lot of that stuff happens behind closed doors. What are some specific accomplishments that she's had as SoS?
Someone mentioned Burma, but clearly you'd have to give Aung San Suu Kyi most of the credit right? What about China? If U.S. pressure on China to pressure burma is what caused the change, and it all happens behind closed doors, then how can you assign her credit?
Obviously compared to Colin Powel, who's major accomplishment was getting scammed into claiming there were WMDs in Iraq, or Condi Rice, who sucked. How does she compare to Madelein Albright, or for that matter in terms of effectiveness how does she compare to Henry Kissenger? (on the other hand there were a lot of people in between them that I didn't really know much about)
But in practice, it's only going to be beautiful if that woman manages to be more than the same product that every post-war election has given us.How many ugly dudes have been elected? Other then, maybe Richard Nixon, since television really started having an impact, all presidential candidates have been relatively good looking, for their age and certainly compared to the typical politician or cabinet member. John Edwards was probably the best looking candidate in the 2008 primary, followed by Obama. McCain wasn't the best looking republican in '08 and he lost in a landslide. He had also been good looking when he was younger.
Looking back, I'd guess Bush I and Gerald Ford were not that good looking. Both had been veeps and ford was appointed. And on top of that Bush I ran against Michael Dukakis, not really the studliest democrat in history.
--
Anyway, a lot of these pictures are funny. [1, 2, 3]
posted by delmoi at 1:36 AM on April 6, 2012
hasn't Hillary finally earned release
LOL I see what you did there.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:52 AM on April 6, 2012
LOL I see what you did there.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:52 AM on April 6, 2012
She's ethically obligated to run for President to get the rancid Palin taste out of America's mouth once and for all.
Why? Because they're both women? And there are no other vagina Americans who can do it? Just these two?
posted by sonika at 4:41 AM on April 6, 2012
Why? Because they're both women? And there are no other vagina Americans who can do it? Just these two?
posted by sonika at 4:41 AM on April 6, 2012
Just these two?
I would pay good money to see a Hillary & Sarah movie ala Thelma and Louise.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:04 AM on April 6, 2012
I would pay good money to see a Hillary & Sarah movie ala Thelma and Louise.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:04 AM on April 6, 2012
Hillary Clinton to the UN: "Gay rights are human rights"
Has any other SOS ever come out in such vocal support of LGBT people around the world?
posted by Lieber Frau at 6:16 AM on April 6, 2012
Has any other SOS ever come out in such vocal support of LGBT people around the world?
posted by Lieber Frau at 6:16 AM on April 6, 2012
Has any other SOS ever come out in such vocal support of LGBT people around the world?
Has any other SOS served at a point in history where saying that was acceptable to a majority of Western people? It would have been pretty funny if Dean Rusk had made that speech, if only because 95% of our allies listening would have said:
"The Kennedy administration is a bunch of homo-lovers? I'm thinking the Soviets don't sound so crazy. Lets trade with them instead."
And Kennedy would have been assassinated long before Dallas.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:31 AM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Has any other SOS served at a point in history where saying that was acceptable to a majority of Western people? It would have been pretty funny if Dean Rusk had made that speech, if only because 95% of our allies listening would have said:
"The Kennedy administration is a bunch of homo-lovers? I'm thinking the Soviets don't sound so crazy. Lets trade with them instead."
And Kennedy would have been assassinated long before Dallas.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:31 AM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Let's not pretend her behavior during the campaign wasn't worthy of derision.
I understand that this is your opinion, but that does not make it a fact. From my perspective, she acted graciously and admirably in a situation that would have destroyed a weaker person.
I don't want to get into the primary wars all over again (I got real tired of being called a racist for simply preferring my candidate). But let's not pretend that the way she was treated during the campaign, by the party and the press, was not abominable.
posted by caryatid at 7:39 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I understand that this is your opinion, but that does not make it a fact. From my perspective, she acted graciously and admirably in a situation that would have destroyed a weaker person.
I don't want to get into the primary wars all over again (I got real tired of being called a racist for simply preferring my candidate). But let's not pretend that the way she was treated during the campaign, by the party and the press, was not abominable.
posted by caryatid at 7:39 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Has any other SOS served at a point in history where saying that was acceptable to a majority of Western people?"
Condi, Colin, Madeline, Warren, Lawrence, James — mid '90s is when Europe started taking strides forward. Further, way to move the goalposts so that Hillary being first doesn't count.
posted by klangklangston at 8:18 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Condi, Colin, Madeline, Warren, Lawrence, James — mid '90s is when Europe started taking strides forward. Further, way to move the goalposts so that Hillary being first doesn't count.
posted by klangklangston at 8:18 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Condi, Colin, Madeline, Warren, Lawrence, James — mid '90s is when Europe started taking strides forward. Further, way to move the goalposts so that Hillary being first doesn't count.
I'll give you the first two. So I'm glad she said it. The Obama administration will be long remembered for its lip service to progressive causes.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:38 AM on April 6, 2012
I'll give you the first two. So I'm glad she said it. The Obama administration will be long remembered for its lip service to progressive causes.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:38 AM on April 6, 2012
Giving rights to the same-sex partners of diplomats is a bit more than lip service.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:58 AM on April 6, 2012
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:58 AM on April 6, 2012
Wait, why is she texting with her left hand?
I'm right-handed but do nearly all cell phone-related things (playing games, selecting apps, closing things, hitting the play button, typing if it's short ("ok") with my left hand. Is this a weird thing?
posted by rtha at 8:58 AM on April 6, 2012
I'm right-handed but do nearly all cell phone-related things (playing games, selecting apps, closing things, hitting the play button, typing if it's short ("ok") with my left hand. Is this a weird thing?
posted by rtha at 8:58 AM on April 6, 2012
I liked the tumblr, thanks for posting. I wish then-Sen. Clinton, had seen through the lies, and voted against war in Iraq. I'm glad she's the SO, and I'll bet Obama is, too.
posted by theora55 at 1:55 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by theora55 at 1:55 PM on April 6, 2012
Rachel Maddow's Best New Thing in the World tonight. Next, prison!
posted by wallabear at 7:04 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by wallabear at 7:04 PM on April 6, 2012
"Has any other SOS served at a point in history where saying that was acceptable to a majority of Western people?"Still isn't acceptable to a majority of non-Western people, so her support for gay rights in places like Uganda would be one mark in her favor. I still think it's rather difficult for a regular person to evaluate a SoS, maybe years later when 'insider' books are written, you might get some idea. But still, those are all self-serving to some degree.
I liked the tumblr, thanks for posting. I wish then-Sen. Clinton, had seen through the lies, and voted against war in Iraq.We don't really know what kind of bullshit they were being fed in 'classified' form, but there were some people who had access to it and saw through it. Colin Powell is reported to have known it was B.S, but went out and lied anyway. Barbra Boxer was on the Intel committee, and would have seen anything. According to her, the Intel wasn't good enough.
I think what bothered some people was the idea that, you know, she's supposed to be smart, bush is stupid -- how could he have fooled her? Seems like it's well, he didn't, she decided to go along with it because she thought she'd be better off politically.
That's one reason why I really didn't want to see her win the nomination. If she made the vote for political reasons, and still won the presidency after a disastrous war, it would send the 'message' to politicians that you suffer politically if you vote against a war that goes well, but on the other hand there's no problem if you vote for a war that goes badly.
That's not a good set of incentives.
(Supposedly a lot of democrats got burned by voting against desert storm in '91, since the war went really well. Of course, Bush I still lost the next election. The lesson should be that winning wars quickly and painlessly doesn't actually get you much politically (look at Obama and Libya), while losing them destroys you)
posted by delmoi at 6:06 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obviously, the best thing to do is start a war and drag it out as long as you can.
posted by wobh at 9:31 AM on April 7, 2012
posted by wobh at 9:31 AM on April 7, 2012
Update on the thing only I care about: They added a page with photo credits! That is so cool.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 11:02 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Linda_Holmes at 11:02 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Article with picture of site founders with Hillary.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:49 PM on April 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:49 PM on April 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
MetroWeekly's Chris Geidner speaks to Stacy Lambe and Adam Smith about their Tumblr. Clinton told them her favorite submission was the one featuring Ryan Gosling.
posted by ericb at 5:55 PM on April 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 5:55 PM on April 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
I said it before...
A political meme that is genuinely funny? Incredible!
So it's not THAT surprising that the subject would have a good sense of humor about it. (And a great counter to Hillary's "takes everything too seriously" image)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:34 PM on April 10, 2012
A political meme that is genuinely funny? Incredible!
So it's not THAT surprising that the subject would have a good sense of humor about it. (And a great counter to Hillary's "takes everything too seriously" image)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:34 PM on April 10, 2012
And this morning they decided they couldn't Top HRC herself, and decided to stop posting to the tumblr. Alas, Poor Meme! we knew him, Horatio…
posted by Mad_Carew at 12:16 PM on April 11, 2012
posted by Mad_Carew at 12:16 PM on April 11, 2012
Here is a link to Hillz "hometown" local online paper where she meets the creators.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:23 PM on April 11, 2012
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:23 PM on April 11, 2012
On Politico.com today:
A CAMPAIGN FINANCE SIDE EFFECT OF ‘TEXTS FROM HILLARY?’ Half the duo that created the wildly popular — and now forever ended (http://politi.co/IyGSyC) — Texts from Hillary blog may find his newfound stardom will benefit his day job as a campaign finance reformer. Adam Smith says Public Campaign, the nonprofit reform group where he’s communications director, hasn’t yet realized a donation windfall. But he tells PI Texts from Hillary “has definitely raised my profile, which in turn will help us raise the profile of our work at Public Campaign.” “My Twitter follower count has nearly tripled since last Thursday — from 1,100 to over 3,300 currently. That helps to expand the audience of people who will see the work we do here and helps us get our message out.”posted by XMLicious at 1:23 PM on April 13, 2012
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posted by The Whelk at 12:16 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]