UW campus shooting victim speaks up
April 1, 2017 2:42 PM Subscribe
Wounded anti-Milo protester speaks. Earlier this year, a Milo Yiannopoulos supporter shot and seriously injured a protester on the University of Washington campus. The victim, "Hex", recently gave an interview on KEXP expounding on why he is not seeking prison time for the shooter and why he prefers dialog and restorative justice over retribution, as well as other things: his medical ordeal and his happiness at marrying his partner while in hospital. Well worth reading. (Audio link; edited transcript)
The investigation of the shooting itself has been pretty muddy so far; the wife of the suspect recently took responsibility for the shooting.
The investigation of the shooting itself has been pretty muddy so far; the wife of the suspect recently took responsibility for the shooting.
When deciding whether or not to put a dangerous person in jail, in addition to asking whether his last victim wants him roaming around free, maybe we should also ask whether his NEXT victim wants him roaming around free.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:59 PM on April 1, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:59 PM on April 1, 2017 [45 favorites]
I'm not sure whether we want Milo Y. roaming around free.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:04 PM on April 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:04 PM on April 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't think we have Milo Yiannopoulos to kick around anymore. He seems to have very effectively fallen off the face of the earth. And wherever he ends up can deal with him now.
posted by Naberius at 4:25 PM on April 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 4:25 PM on April 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
maybe we should also ask whether his NEXT victim wants him roaming around free.
Given the enormous risk of becoming a victim of violent crime while incarcerated in an American prison, the answer to this may very well be "yes".
posted by howfar at 5:25 PM on April 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Given the enormous risk of becoming a victim of violent crime while incarcerated in an American prison, the answer to this may very well be "yes".
posted by howfar at 5:25 PM on April 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
maybe we should also ask whether his NEXT victim wants him roaming around free
It's important to remember that the prosecutor decides whether to charge the shooter. The victim may express their wishes to the prosecutor, or indeed to the press, as in this case, but the decision is not up to them. The victim can also choose to be an uncooperative witness during the trial, which may discourage the prosecutor from pursuing the case.
In this case, from what little I've read (just this article), I'd expect the prosecutor to not charge the shooter with attempted murder, but instead try to get them to plea to some lesser firearms charge. I really doubt they're going to drop the case entirely, if for no other reason than to disqualify the shooter from owning firearms.
posted by ryanrs at 7:02 PM on April 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's important to remember that the prosecutor decides whether to charge the shooter. The victim may express their wishes to the prosecutor, or indeed to the press, as in this case, but the decision is not up to them. The victim can also choose to be an uncooperative witness during the trial, which may discourage the prosecutor from pursuing the case.
In this case, from what little I've read (just this article), I'd expect the prosecutor to not charge the shooter with attempted murder, but instead try to get them to plea to some lesser firearms charge. I really doubt they're going to drop the case entirely, if for no other reason than to disqualify the shooter from owning firearms.
posted by ryanrs at 7:02 PM on April 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that the shooting victim is the cousin(?) of a MeFite who talked about this in one of the politics threads at the time.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:00 PM on April 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:00 PM on April 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
The shooter committed political violence on behalf of a fascist movement. Letting him walk and hoping he'll spontaneously develop a conscience and feel bad about doing what the rhetoric he soaks in praises as the highest morality reflects either a profound failure to take the present political situation seriously or a catastrophic lack of self-preservation.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:09 AM on April 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:09 AM on April 2, 2017 [23 favorites]
either a profound failure to take the present political situation seriously or a catastrophic lack of self-preservation.
A little of column A, a little of column B, methinks.
posted by dazed_one at 7:22 AM on April 2, 2017
A little of column A, a little of column B, methinks.
posted by dazed_one at 7:22 AM on April 2, 2017
It's important to remember that the prosecutor decides whether to charge the shooter.
This is a good point, and one that is getting somewhat lost in this thread.
The SPD has not released any information on the investigation so far. I cannot say for sure, but I suspect the reason that the police have not pursued this more energetically - not even bothering to detain the shooter(s), in spite of the wide holes in the Hokoanas' story - is that the victim has anarchist leanings, and police simply don't have a lot of love for people like that.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:46 AM on April 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is a good point, and one that is getting somewhat lost in this thread.
The SPD has not released any information on the investigation so far. I cannot say for sure, but I suspect the reason that the police have not pursued this more energetically - not even bothering to detain the shooter(s), in spite of the wide holes in the Hokoanas' story - is that the victim has anarchist leanings, and police simply don't have a lot of love for people like that.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:46 AM on April 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Some of the responses here are kind of shocking to me. I don't understand how someone could listen to this interview and come away thinking that the protester who was shot has "profound[ly] fail[ed] in taking the present political situation seriously." I do think there's a conversation to be had about the potential limits of restorative justice and how that affects prison abolition work, but to suggest that the protester is somehow foolish, and to entirely dismiss their commitment to their values even following a life threatening situation, is absurd.
posted by dysh at 9:19 AM on April 2, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by dysh at 9:19 AM on April 2, 2017 [21 favorites]
The shooter committed political violence on behalf of a fascist movement. Letting her walk and hoping she'll spontaneously develop a conscience and feel bad about doing what the rhetoric she soaks in praises as the highest morality reflects either a profound failure to take the present political situation seriously or a catastrophic lack of self-preservation.
Fixed.
And FYI the shooter claims self defense and an EMS recording (not police, medical personnel) says that the victim was carrying a large knife and brass knuckles.
This may well not be prosecuted beyond having a gun on campus where it was not allowed because there is no other crime to prosecute.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 2:47 AM on April 3, 2017
Fixed.
And FYI the shooter claims self defense and an EMS recording (not police, medical personnel) says that the victim was carrying a large knife and brass knuckles.
This may well not be prosecuted beyond having a gun on campus where it was not allowed because there is no other crime to prosecute.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 2:47 AM on April 3, 2017
Other than shooting someone in the stomach and giving them a factory reset Note 7 in *2017* (surprised no one has commented on how suspicious that fact alone is)
posted by Yowser at 3:46 AM on April 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 3:46 AM on April 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd also love to hear any credible citations for them carrying a large knife and brass knuckles. Do go on.
posted by Yowser at 3:46 AM on April 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 3:46 AM on April 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
So in the United States you can shoot someone, claim it was self defence, and if the other person had a gun too(he had far, far less than than a gun, but let's just keep it even steven for hypotheticals), you go free.
Seems legit.
posted by Yowser at 4:08 AM on April 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Seems legit.
posted by Yowser at 4:08 AM on April 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
So in the United States you can shoot someone, claim it was self defence, and if the other person had a gun too(he had far, far less than than a gun, but let's just keep it even steven for hypotheticals), you go free.
You can defend yourself from someone who is threatening you and is armed with not one, but two potentially deadly weapons, which is what has been claimed in this incident.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 4:16 AM on April 3, 2017
You can defend yourself from someone who is threatening you and is armed with not one, but two potentially deadly weapons, which is what has been claimed in this incident.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 4:16 AM on April 3, 2017
Letting him walk and hoping he'll spontaneously develop a conscience and feel bad
No, that's not what the shooting victim hopes. The shooting victim wants to pursue dialog and work in the restorative justice model.
I agree with dysh. I respect Hex's values and hope he's able to engage in useful dialog with his attacker, but also note the problems and limits with approaches that try not to use the criminal justice system -- for instance, there's a really good chapter about that in The Revolution Starts at Home: Confronting Intimate Violence Within Activist Communities.
posted by brainwane at 6:45 AM on April 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can we please stop perpetuating this victim-blaming brass knuckles rumor? Your source is simply the emergency personnel noting the Hokanas' brass-knuckle claim, not any evidence that it is true. These are the same Hokoanas who blatantly tampered with cellphone evidence and couldn't decide which one of them had pulled the trigger until a couple of months after the incident, so I don't ascribe any particular weight to what they have to say about what happened.
And even if it were true that Hex (or any other antifa present) were carrying brass knuckles - which we have no reason to suppose at this point - it still wouldn't justify bringing a gun to a protest event and firing into a crowd.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:05 AM on April 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
And even if it were true that Hex (or any other antifa present) were carrying brass knuckles - which we have no reason to suppose at this point - it still wouldn't justify bringing a gun to a protest event and firing into a crowd.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:05 AM on April 3, 2017 [11 favorites]
Can we please stop perpetuating this victim-blaming brass knuckles rumor?
No?
And even if it were true that Hex (or any other antifa present) were carrying brass knuckles - which we have no reason to suppose at this point - it still wouldn't justify bringing a gun to a protest event and firing into a crowd.
posted by splitpeasoup at 2:05 PM on April 3 [1 favorite +] [!]
That is a strawman.
Nobody is claiming that the presence of a deadly weapon on the shooting victim justifies the shooting. Just that it lends credibility to a self defense claim.
The shooters would have to be very lucky indeed to pick someone at random to shoot, concoct a false self defense story and have the victim turn out to be carrying deadly weapons.
Your source is simply the emergency personnel noting the Hokanas' brass-knuckle claim, not any evidence that it is true.
Do you have a source for that? It isn't mentioned anywhere in the article or the video.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 7:35 AM on April 3, 2017
No?
And even if it were true that Hex (or any other antifa present) were carrying brass knuckles - which we have no reason to suppose at this point - it still wouldn't justify bringing a gun to a protest event and firing into a crowd.
posted by splitpeasoup at 2:05 PM on April 3 [1 favorite +] [!]
That is a strawman.
Nobody is claiming that the presence of a deadly weapon on the shooting victim justifies the shooting. Just that it lends credibility to a self defense claim.
The shooters would have to be very lucky indeed to pick someone at random to shoot, concoct a false self defense story and have the victim turn out to be carrying deadly weapons.
Your source is simply the emergency personnel noting the Hokanas' brass-knuckle claim, not any evidence that it is true.
Do you have a source for that? It isn't mentioned anywhere in the article or the video.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 7:35 AM on April 3, 2017
On a second reading of the source, the first part of my comment above may be incorrect.
UW Police neither confirm nor deny. We should stop playing armchair detective.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:43 AM on April 3, 2017
UW Police neither confirm nor deny. We should stop playing armchair detective.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:43 AM on April 3, 2017
Huh. Just saw an interview with Hex in the Guardian, which identifies him by his legal name and shows a picture of the brass knuckles being debated here. It was a plastic finger strengthener for guitar players.
posted by palomar at 8:40 AM on April 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by palomar at 8:40 AM on April 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Huh. Just saw an interview with Hex in the Guardian, which identifies him by his legal name and shows a picture of the brass knuckles being debated here. It was a plastic finger strengthener for guitar players.
posted by palomar at 3:40 PM on April 4 [1 favorite +] [!]
Strange that the guardian wouldn't have asked him about the "large knife" mentioned on the same recording.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 10:46 AM on April 4, 2017
posted by palomar at 3:40 PM on April 4 [1 favorite +] [!]
Strange that the guardian wouldn't have asked him about the "large knife" mentioned on the same recording.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 10:46 AM on April 4, 2017
Gotta keep moving those "it was okay to shoot this guy" goalposts, huh.
posted by palomar at 10:56 AM on April 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by palomar at 10:56 AM on April 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Gotta keep moving those "it was okay to shoot this guy" goalposts, huh.
posted by palomar at 5:56 PM on April 4 [+] [!]
How have they moved?
I have said the shooter claims self defense and that there is an EMS recording stating that he had two weapons.
So we have a claim made by the shooter, with some potentially supporting information provided by an unbiased third party.
He showed the guardian an object that looks nothing like brass knuckles and claimed they were mistaken for brass knuckles.
The guardian reference a recording where he is described as being armed with brass knuckles and a knife and they ask about the brass knuckles but not the knife?
What possible reason would the guardian have for not asking about that at the same time they address the brass knuckles?
And I ask again, how have I moved any goalposts?
I get that you disagree with me, that doesn't make me guilty of anything and everything you choose to fling my way.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 11:07 AM on April 4, 2017
posted by palomar at 5:56 PM on April 4 [+] [!]
How have they moved?
I have said the shooter claims self defense and that there is an EMS recording stating that he had two weapons.
So we have a claim made by the shooter, with some potentially supporting information provided by an unbiased third party.
He showed the guardian an object that looks nothing like brass knuckles and claimed they were mistaken for brass knuckles.
The guardian reference a recording where he is described as being armed with brass knuckles and a knife and they ask about the brass knuckles but not the knife?
What possible reason would the guardian have for not asking about that at the same time they address the brass knuckles?
And I ask again, how have I moved any goalposts?
I get that you disagree with me, that doesn't make me guilty of anything and everything you choose to fling my way.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 11:07 AM on April 4, 2017
It's less that I disagree with you, and more that I'm weirded out by how much credence you're willing to lend to the shooter's claims in the face of no real evidence.
posted by palomar at 8:16 PM on April 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by palomar at 8:16 PM on April 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean, it just seems like you're really really really 100000% in the tank for the shooter, that's all.
posted by palomar at 8:17 PM on April 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by palomar at 8:17 PM on April 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
UW police seek felony assault charge against alleged shooter during Milo Yiannopoulos speech
And as journalist/domestic extremism expert JJ MacNab notes, at just before 3:50 in this video, you can see and hear Marc Hokoana (in the upper left) excitedly say to a woman--who I assume is Elizabeth Hokoana--"Don't shoot anyone...they have to start it." I can't hear what she said, but judging by the child-like behavior (shit-eating grin, jumping up and down, almost immediate embarrassment upon noticing he was on camera), he was waiting to incite something that they could claim was self-defense. Whatever the case, they very clearly showed up intending to use the weapon they illegally brought on campus, and minutes before the shooting was also very clearly getting psyched up to commit violence.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:40 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
And as journalist/domestic extremism expert JJ MacNab notes, at just before 3:50 in this video, you can see and hear Marc Hokoana (in the upper left) excitedly say to a woman--who I assume is Elizabeth Hokoana--"Don't shoot anyone...they have to start it." I can't hear what she said, but judging by the child-like behavior (shit-eating grin, jumping up and down, almost immediate embarrassment upon noticing he was on camera), he was waiting to incite something that they could claim was self-defense. Whatever the case, they very clearly showed up intending to use the weapon they illegally brought on campus, and minutes before the shooting was also very clearly getting psyched up to commit violence.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:40 AM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sounds like MacNab agrees:
I din't [sic] see how a self-defense claim can hold up if 1) the prosecutor can show there was a plan, andposted by zombieflanders at 10:52 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
2) the young man she shot acted as a peacekeeper in the videos. It looks like he was trying to keep both groups from engaging in violence.
And at about 0:15 in another video, someone (maybe Marc?) has to tell Elizabeth "Calm down, don't shoot anyone." That's definitely an itchy trigger finger looking to get scratched.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:01 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:01 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
AP: Couple charged in shooting outside Seattle right-wing event
In charging papers, King County prosecutors say "this shooting was not an impulsive act done in a moment of fear."posted by zombieflanders at 8:00 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Instead, the two went to the campus event "with the intent to provoke altercations with protesters who they knew would also be at this controversial event," wrote Mary Barbosa, senior deputy prosecuting attorney.
Barbosa added that they "created a situation designed to allow Elizabeth Hokoana to shoot the victim in the middle of an extremely crowded event under the guise of defending herself or her husband."
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posted by queenofbithynia at 3:02 PM on April 1, 2017 [20 favorites]