Default is the new Basic
May 7, 2019 1:01 PM Subscribe
...in the realm of Fortnite, there is nothing worse that having a standard character, otherwise known as a “default.”
This bit from the article is important to remember:
I'm glad that I'm mature enough to have the confidence to just not give a fuck about people who behave this way but I know not everyone can take that perspective (especially kids).
Ugh, I hate how everything is a trash-fire.
posted by Fizz at 1:10 PM on May 7, 2019 [55 favorites]
“The confrontations could get ugly. One student in Towler’s class “begged his parents for [money] to buy a skin because no one would play with him” because he wore basic virtual clothes. While the bullying wasn’t always Fortnite-specific, Towler recalls that it seemed “vicious for [the student] to have another avenue for the meaner kids to attack him.” Things got better for that kid, but when your social scene begins and ends with Fortnite, having nobody to play with is like a mark of death.”It's easy to think that these things are superficial and inconsequential, but I like to remind myself and anyone else that pushes back with the idea that Fortnite is just a silly video-game. It's not, it's so much more, it's a shared social space where so many kids hang out now and to not have access to that space and/or being pressured out of that space for whatever bullshit reason is hard when you're a pre-teen/teen. Fuck, it's hard when you're a grown-ass adult.
I'm glad that I'm mature enough to have the confidence to just not give a fuck about people who behave this way but I know not everyone can take that perspective (especially kids).
Ugh, I hate how everything is a trash-fire.
posted by Fizz at 1:10 PM on May 7, 2019 [55 favorites]
The confrontations could get ugly. One student in Towler’s class “begged his parents for [money] to buy a skin because no one would play with him” because he wore basic virtual clothes
Is norm-core still cool to anyone except the olds, where it's a just a funny joke? Because I'd push that :)
Otherwise, seconding Fizz.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:18 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
Is norm-core still cool to anyone except the olds, where it's a just a funny joke? Because I'd push that :)
Otherwise, seconding Fizz.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:18 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
My youngest blows all his allowance on Fortnite skins. I don't get it, but it is his allowance and I guess that is better than blowing it all on pop and candy at the corner store?
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:18 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:18 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
Is norm-core still cool to anyone except the olds,
I was thinking about this too, about how the irony of being default might somehow be turned into it's own kind of cool, but maybe that's something only an adult would consider and it'd take a certain amount of confidence to pull off.
Also, this bit from the article:
posted by Fizz at 1:21 PM on May 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
I was thinking about this too, about how the irony of being default might somehow be turned into it's own kind of cool, but maybe that's something only an adult would consider and it'd take a certain amount of confidence to pull off.
Also, this bit from the article:
““On more than one occasion I heard the kids refer to one another as a ‘default,’” Towler says, referencing things he’s overheard at school. “At one point they started to use it just as a generic insult both in and out of the classroom.””There's something so sinister and cruel about this kind of othering and estrangement.
posted by Fizz at 1:21 PM on May 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
In an ideal world, there would be some kind of free custom skin creator released so that anyone could express themselves how they wish, but that would conflict with Epic's pay model and it'd likely prevent the Battle Royale mode from being free, so I don't see that ever happening.
posted by Fizz at 1:23 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 1:23 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
In a viral video with 3 million views, one kid describes how classmates would beat him up for not having any Fortnite skins, on top of having few in-game wins. The YouTuber in the clip, The Dragod, is moved by the tale and ends up giving the child money to buy a cosmetic.
Wait, that’s the point? Let’s get bullied kids cosmetics so they won’t be bullied any more?
posted by argybarg at 1:25 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
Wait, that’s the point? Let’s get bullied kids cosmetics so they won’t be bullied any more?
posted by argybarg at 1:25 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
Fizz, I suspect in order for a kid to pull off the "default IS cool", they would already have to be part of the in-crowd.
posted by KirTakat at 1:25 PM on May 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by KirTakat at 1:25 PM on May 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
So, just like real clothes? The more things change...
posted by Edgewise at 1:27 PM on May 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Edgewise at 1:27 PM on May 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
I don't let my kids play Fortnite, in part because of stories like this. I'm not sure if I'm doing them any favours or not, because the next easy target would be the fact that they don't play.
The online gaming world is really fucked up.
posted by nubs at 1:37 PM on May 7, 2019 [7 favorites]
The online gaming world is really fucked up.
posted by nubs at 1:37 PM on May 7, 2019 [7 favorites]
Fortnite has jumped the shark...
Only 12 year olds still play it.
(Says my 13 year old)
My son is 11. Sigh.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:41 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
Only 12 year olds still play it.
(Says my 13 year old)
My son is 11. Sigh.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:41 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
Everything makes so much more sense now.
posted by slogger at 1:44 PM on May 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by slogger at 1:44 PM on May 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
As above, so below
posted by gwint at 1:44 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by gwint at 1:44 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'd love it for a band of "defaults" to come together and form their own battle squad. That'd be an awesome thing to come out of all of this. I mean I wish it wasn't necessary but it'd be pretty amazing to see this happen to push back against the bullies.
posted by Fizz at 1:46 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 1:46 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Nothing with in-app purchases is ever going to be a net positive thing for kids.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:48 PM on May 7, 2019 [40 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:48 PM on May 7, 2019 [40 favorites]
I wonder if, having failed to get "NPC" to catch on outside the chans and a couple of the more fester-y subreddits, the GG types will try to attach its meaning to "default".
I mean, "default" is already a very GG-friendly insult, being as it is a way to shun people for not acting like good little consumers.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:50 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
I mean, "default" is already a very GG-friendly insult, being as it is a way to shun people for not acting like good little consumers.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:50 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
I played Fortnite for a time, maybe 2 months, before realizing it wasn't my cup of tea, even with 3 other friends making up a whole squad and winning every so often.
I have a friend who has a son who is a player in this core demographic. I bet they've (the parents) dropped 2 or 3 hundred bucks over the last year or two into Season Passes or V-Bucks for outfits. I've watched this kid play, he MIGHT get a kill once every 5 or 6 games. He just obsesses over the cosmetic stuff and what is in the next season pass while, well, I hate to say it, being honest to god pretty clueless how to actually play the game.
He runs into teammates and does random things boggles that they don't stick with him. He runs from every fight, leaving teammates out to dry. He gets really frustrated with the game almost every match... Then he boots up another round and blindly plays on without any interest in improvement or understanding what's going on. I showed him the single player version of Fornite that I have since I bought the actual game when it was new and he was unable to follow basic on screen directions...
I asked him to explain to me what a season pass is and what it does and if it grants any benefits beyond cosmetics stuff because I A) never bought them when I did play and B) that was umpteen seasons ago anyway so I didn't know if they were inching towards pay to win perhaps. He really couldn't explain what it is, just that he has a hankering for it and a need to beg his parents for it as soon as it is out.
The final icing on the cake is his inability to get past the even first stage of original Mario on the NES emulator on my Switch when he comes over to play with our kids, who are younger and are honestly almost as good as he is. Like, he dies once and wants to quit and play something else when at his age I was beating castles regularly. He really enjoys the game and wants to get better, but just doesn't...
It's video game crack. I probably sound really, really old-man "get off my lawn"/"kids these days don't know how to X or Y" but it's concerning and I think it likely isn't healthy unless managed really, really well as parents. The whole thing but Fortnite espicially.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:57 PM on May 7, 2019 [25 favorites]
I have a friend who has a son who is a player in this core demographic. I bet they've (the parents) dropped 2 or 3 hundred bucks over the last year or two into Season Passes or V-Bucks for outfits. I've watched this kid play, he MIGHT get a kill once every 5 or 6 games. He just obsesses over the cosmetic stuff and what is in the next season pass while, well, I hate to say it, being honest to god pretty clueless how to actually play the game.
He runs into teammates and does random things boggles that they don't stick with him. He runs from every fight, leaving teammates out to dry. He gets really frustrated with the game almost every match... Then he boots up another round and blindly plays on without any interest in improvement or understanding what's going on. I showed him the single player version of Fornite that I have since I bought the actual game when it was new and he was unable to follow basic on screen directions...
I asked him to explain to me what a season pass is and what it does and if it grants any benefits beyond cosmetics stuff because I A) never bought them when I did play and B) that was umpteen seasons ago anyway so I didn't know if they were inching towards pay to win perhaps. He really couldn't explain what it is, just that he has a hankering for it and a need to beg his parents for it as soon as it is out.
The final icing on the cake is his inability to get past the even first stage of original Mario on the NES emulator on my Switch when he comes over to play with our kids, who are younger and are honestly almost as good as he is. Like, he dies once and wants to quit and play something else when at his age I was beating castles regularly. He really enjoys the game and wants to get better, but just doesn't...
It's video game crack. I probably sound really, really old-man "get off my lawn"/"kids these days don't know how to X or Y" but it's concerning and I think it likely isn't healthy unless managed really, really well as parents. The whole thing but Fortnite espicially.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:57 PM on May 7, 2019 [25 favorites]
Can confirm from my 7th-grader that, here in Wisconsin, calling a kid "default" is now a common way of saying they're basic. Can also confirm that among the non-Fortnite-playing kids it's considered basic to use Fortnite terminology to call other kids basic.
posted by escabeche at 1:57 PM on May 7, 2019 [24 favorites]
posted by escabeche at 1:57 PM on May 7, 2019 [24 favorites]
My older son, then 15, played Fortnite for a while last year. He quit when my younger son, then 9, started playing it (and doing the funny little dance).
My younger son, now 10, no longer plays Fortnite ("It's not cool"). We have never facilitated any of the in-game purchases.
The weird thing is, my younger son hasn't played on the Switch for ages now. He just plays Manhunt outside with the other neighbourhood kids until the sun goes down!
posted by JamesBay at 1:59 PM on May 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
My younger son, now 10, no longer plays Fortnite ("It's not cool"). We have never facilitated any of the in-game purchases.
The weird thing is, my younger son hasn't played on the Switch for ages now. He just plays Manhunt outside with the other neighbourhood kids until the sun goes down!
posted by JamesBay at 1:59 PM on May 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I watched the Folding Ideas video on Fornite recently which finally gave me some context for how some of this stuff works. It also includes some bits during the DJ Marshmello concert where he specifically called for the audience to do a Marshmello dance, and another time where he called for them to do their favourite dance. These dances, like the skins, can be purchased.
posted by RobotHero at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2019 [13 favorites]
"I asked him to explain to me what a season pass is and what it does and if it grants any benefits beyond cosmetics stuff "
It's just skins, emotes, glider skin etc no in game advantage.
posted by Damienmce at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
It's just skins, emotes, glider skin etc no in game advantage.
posted by Damienmce at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
So much of this is down to streamers and youtubers. If the people the kids look up to modelled cool as being not giving a shit about cosmetics (or better still, mildly rolling their eyes or sneering at paid cosmetics) then I suspect we'd see kids with different attitudes.
You see a few of the most technical and accomplished competitive players in Rocket League take this road for example, and I hope it provides some legitimacy for the basic loadout for some of their fans. I just wish that approach were more widespread, particularly in the games more popular with kids, like Fortnite.
posted by Dysk at 2:11 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
You see a few of the most technical and accomplished competitive players in Rocket League take this road for example, and I hope it provides some legitimacy for the basic loadout for some of their fans. I just wish that approach were more widespread, particularly in the games more popular with kids, like Fortnite.
posted by Dysk at 2:11 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Also, kids calling each other “default” is just a rebranding of “newb” or “noob”. Same toxic online bullying shit, just a different day.
posted by Fizz at 2:12 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 2:12 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
On the sliding scale of shittiness, default is a less healthy insult than noob. You're only a noob until you figure things out - meanwhile, you have to pay a company to not be a default. It's like making fun of the kids with clothes from K-Mart or whatever.
posted by Spacelegoman at 2:18 PM on May 7, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by Spacelegoman at 2:18 PM on May 7, 2019 [14 favorites]
Never played Fortnite, but now kinda want to download it just so I can play as a Default and help make Default more cool.
posted by straight at 2:19 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by straight at 2:19 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
it's hard to look cool when you're running in a panic from an electrical storm after hiding in a shed for ten minutes because you're unarmed and you accidentally drew the attention of a nine year old with an uzi, but maybe your first attempt at Fortnite will go better than mine
I don't understand how the youth have time to socialize and floss and bully each other with those darned electrical storms popping up constantly
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:30 PM on May 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
I don't understand how the youth have time to socialize and floss and bully each other with those darned electrical storms popping up constantly
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:30 PM on May 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
It's really something how kids can take any kind of new descriptive vocabulary word and turn it into a weapon.
posted by bleep at 2:40 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by bleep at 2:40 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
Team Default. I actually haven't played Fortnite in months but people, it is free to play and buying shit doesn't help you win! It's 100% free fun! Why mess this good thing up, youths?
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:41 PM on May 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:41 PM on May 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
Fashion: Turn to the left!
Fashion: Right!
Fashion.
posted by Fupped Duck at 2:59 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
Fashion: Right!
Fashion.
posted by Fupped Duck at 2:59 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
but maybe your first attempt at Fortnite will go better than mine
That was a lot more gentle than posting a link to the "How do you do, fellow Fortnite kids? Default skins are cool, don't you think? Like skateboarding! And saying No to drugs and bullies!" meme that I deserved.
posted by straight at 3:06 PM on May 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
That was a lot more gentle than posting a link to the "How do you do, fellow Fortnite kids? Default skins are cool, don't you think? Like skateboarding! And saying No to drugs and bullies!" meme that I deserved.
posted by straight at 3:06 PM on May 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
I neglected to mention that said friend's kid's obsessive tendencies are not limited to cosmetic purchases per se. He also gets an almost visible dopamine hit as he searches for gold or purple weapons that he loves but is universally terrible with and/or chooses not to shoot with them. Then brags about his playing despite dying horribly with zero kills. I feel for the kid, it's like an alternate reality whirlpool where neither his ability nor his perception of the game can ever break loose. I'm thankful that the gaming environment I grew up in was still growing and hadn't learned how to be quite as predatory, well aside from the quarter munching battletoads and mortal combat machines that is.... But I'd pick that anyway to microtransactions and shame.
posted by RolandOfEld at 3:24 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 3:24 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
It's really something how kids can take any kind of new descriptive vocabulary word and turn it into a weapon.
I don't even play Overwatch, and I still think "Hanzo main" is funny.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:34 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
I don't even play Overwatch, and I still think "Hanzo main" is funny.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:34 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
Sony Store - Prom King commercial.
Wow. I just discovered this. I mean, wow.
posted by Fizz at 3:58 PM on May 7, 2019
Wow. I just discovered this. I mean, wow.
posted by Fizz at 3:58 PM on May 7, 2019
My son's moved on to other things, but I only gave him two pieces of advice* in Fortnite: always play as a default when you're good, because other players will underestimate you, and don't share your gamer tag with anyone at school you don't trust.
Then again, I've been beating the keep-your-privacy-because-everyone-else-will-give-theirs-away drum for a long time, so he's used to playing his cards close to the vest and this isn't really anything new for him...and kids you trust today become kids you don't trust tomorrow, so there's no way to completely win the privacy game except to not play.
*which he listened to, because we played together when it first came out, and I came in 6th on my first try -- who knew long-latent first-person shooter skills honed on games of Unreal Tournament in my youth could make me a better parent?
posted by davejay at 5:10 PM on May 7, 2019 [14 favorites]
Then again, I've been beating the keep-your-privacy-because-everyone-else-will-give-theirs-away drum for a long time, so he's used to playing his cards close to the vest and this isn't really anything new for him...and kids you trust today become kids you don't trust tomorrow, so there's no way to completely win the privacy game except to not play.
*which he listened to, because we played together when it first came out, and I came in 6th on my first try -- who knew long-latent first-person shooter skills honed on games of Unreal Tournament in my youth could make me a better parent?
posted by davejay at 5:10 PM on May 7, 2019 [14 favorites]
My god this is stupid. If I thought my kids could find jobs without computer skills I’d be tempted to put their devices in an industrial blender. The whole gaming world and social media ecosystem is like a 1 inch deep pool of fucking idiocy. I wish adults were setting a better example but we’re just as bad.
posted by freecellwizard at 5:16 PM on May 7, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 5:16 PM on May 7, 2019 [12 favorites]
I wish adults were setting a better example but we’re just as bad.
I mean, look to the comment up above. It's a good example of a parent gaming with their child and setting boundaries, expectations, and rules.
You're right, there is a deep pool of idiocy, but reading comments like the one davejay just wrote is hopeful and I appreciate that there's still some awesome out there.
posted by Fizz at 5:42 PM on May 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
I mean, look to the comment up above. It's a good example of a parent gaming with their child and setting boundaries, expectations, and rules.
You're right, there is a deep pool of idiocy, but reading comments like the one davejay just wrote is hopeful and I appreciate that there's still some awesome out there.
posted by Fizz at 5:42 PM on May 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
I'm not exactly buying the premise of this article.
My kid is 10, plays a lot of Fortnite, has spent a grand total of $9.99 on it ever (for a single season "battle pass"), and owns approximately fourteen zillion custom objects and outfits earned through gameplay -- including a ton from before he talked me into shelling out for the battle pass.
I also play occasionally, using default regalia, am objectively terrible at the game, and have literally never had any interaction with any player other than them shooting at me and vice-versa.
I did once overhear my kid and his friends running away in panic from a squad of players disguised as newbies per the strategy davejay outlined above -- so they're aware of default (though the term he and his buddies used was "nakeds"), but the whole "nobody will play with me plz buy me outfits" thing strikes me as wildly exaggerated moral panic; satanic D&D for the present day.
posted by ook at 5:49 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
My kid is 10, plays a lot of Fortnite, has spent a grand total of $9.99 on it ever (for a single season "battle pass"), and owns approximately fourteen zillion custom objects and outfits earned through gameplay -- including a ton from before he talked me into shelling out for the battle pass.
I also play occasionally, using default regalia, am objectively terrible at the game, and have literally never had any interaction with any player other than them shooting at me and vice-versa.
I did once overhear my kid and his friends running away in panic from a squad of players disguised as newbies per the strategy davejay outlined above -- so they're aware of default (though the term he and his buddies used was "nakeds"), but the whole "nobody will play with me plz buy me outfits" thing strikes me as wildly exaggerated moral panic; satanic D&D for the present day.
posted by ook at 5:49 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
(I don't play because I enjoy the game, I play because my son enjoys seeing that he's much much better at some things than I am. Which is very satisfying for both of us)
posted by ook at 5:51 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by ook at 5:51 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
"Haha fuck you because you don't have money" is nothing new. It happens with shoes, with jeans, with school lunches, all of it. Cyberbullying has been around for a couple decades, too.
But it does kinda kill me to see something that was designed with the premise of "everyone can use this for free" still becomes "haha fuck you because you don't have money."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:34 PM on May 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
But it does kinda kill me to see something that was designed with the premise of "everyone can use this for free" still becomes "haha fuck you because you don't have money."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:34 PM on May 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
Fizz, I suspect in order for a kid to pull off the "default IS cool", they would already have to be part of the in-crowd.
I am not an anthropologist or anything, so definitely not an expert, but I think "default IS cool" would have to start as a subcultural meme, which means it explicitly can't come from someone in the in-crowd. More likely it'd have to be a bunch of people who didn't care about costumes and somehow gained cultural currency in a different manner. Or the in-crowd would have to appropriate the default trend for some reason, but I can't think of one that would gain traction.
There are, of course, a lot of potential issues. One is that DIY essentially isn't a thing in games like Fortnite, so there isn't really a venue for fashion expression that doesn't cost money; you JUST have default skins, and if I remember correctly you can't even pick which default character you want to be because Fortnite randomizes your character each match if you don't have a specific costume. The other is that teenagers are pretty good at finding and inventing subcultures; 10-year-olds do not seem nearly as likely to seek out the same.
posted by chrominance at 6:40 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
I am not an anthropologist or anything, so definitely not an expert, but I think "default IS cool" would have to start as a subcultural meme, which means it explicitly can't come from someone in the in-crowd. More likely it'd have to be a bunch of people who didn't care about costumes and somehow gained cultural currency in a different manner. Or the in-crowd would have to appropriate the default trend for some reason, but I can't think of one that would gain traction.
There are, of course, a lot of potential issues. One is that DIY essentially isn't a thing in games like Fortnite, so there isn't really a venue for fashion expression that doesn't cost money; you JUST have default skins, and if I remember correctly you can't even pick which default character you want to be because Fortnite randomizes your character each match if you don't have a specific costume. The other is that teenagers are pretty good at finding and inventing subcultures; 10-year-olds do not seem nearly as likely to seek out the same.
posted by chrominance at 6:40 PM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
But it does kinda kill me to see something that was designed with the premise of "everyone can use this for free" still becomes "haha fuck you because you don't have money."
This is practically a built-in aspect of free-to-play games. After all, how do you make money if people don't pay you upfront for the privilege of doing so? You sell them differentiation. Give them better gear and extra perks so that they do better in the game. Does that piss off your audience? Okay, then make it all cosmetic instead. Not enough of a draw? Randomize the cosmetics, only offer them via blind boxes so there's an element of gambling to it all as well.
Any sane company making a free-to-play game wants to get paid, and will build elaborate systems of psychological coercion to make it happen. The goal was always to get people to pay somehow.
posted by chrominance at 6:45 PM on May 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
This is practically a built-in aspect of free-to-play games. After all, how do you make money if people don't pay you upfront for the privilege of doing so? You sell them differentiation. Give them better gear and extra perks so that they do better in the game. Does that piss off your audience? Okay, then make it all cosmetic instead. Not enough of a draw? Randomize the cosmetics, only offer them via blind boxes so there's an element of gambling to it all as well.
Any sane company making a free-to-play game wants to get paid, and will build elaborate systems of psychological coercion to make it happen. The goal was always to get people to pay somehow.
posted by chrominance at 6:45 PM on May 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
But it does kinda kill me to see something that was designed with the premise of "everyone can use this for free" still becomes "haha fuck you because you don't have money."
I would push back on the idea that this was in fact the premise of Fortnite. Epic's whole business model is predicated on the assumption that there will be social pressure to buy cosmetics. Kids pressuring their parents to let them spend a ton of money on virtual clothes so that other kids won't think they're lame is literally the point.
posted by tocts at 6:46 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
I would push back on the idea that this was in fact the premise of Fortnite. Epic's whole business model is predicated on the assumption that there will be social pressure to buy cosmetics. Kids pressuring their parents to let them spend a ton of money on virtual clothes so that other kids won't think they're lame is literally the point.
posted by tocts at 6:46 PM on May 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
I dislike the idea that 'cosmetic-only' microtransactions are less objectionable than ones that provide an in-game advantage. Stories like this are why.
posted by Merus at 7:01 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Merus at 7:01 PM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
Wait, we've gone this long and nobody brings up how similar this is to Snow Crash, where people in the Metaverse who can't afford (and/or have the skill) to code custom avatars purchase cheap off-the-shelf "Clint" and "Brandy" models from like Walmart?
posted by FJT at 7:53 PM on May 7, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by FJT at 7:53 PM on May 7, 2019 [13 favorites]
Games that sell items offering an in-game advantage basically turn into yet another venue for rich people to beat up poor people - not across a few problematic schoolyards, or within specific communities - but for literally every single person playing the game. As a game developer I have negative interest in providing rich people with another such venue. I’ve been in the industry a long time and fully intend to die making games, but if that were the only viable economic model I would quit.
I can never completely prevent people from turning the games I work on into yet another vector for social status jockeying and subsequent bullying - humans will inevitably find a way to do that with nearly anything, within their small circles. But to make that part of the bedrock reality of the system right from the start - to not just merely fail but to actively encourage that shit - is a total abdication of my moral responsibility as a media creator.
I’m personally fine with paid cosmetics, but I’ve read the exact same studies as every systems designer tasked with implementing randomized lootboxes (something I’ve thankfully been spared from having to choose between creating or finding another job), and that shit’s exactly the sort of dopamine burst conditioned response exploited by every casino and slot machine. Microtransaction lootboxes are a fucking cancer on the industry, and poisonous to every player of games that feature them.
posted by Ryvar at 7:57 PM on May 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
I can never completely prevent people from turning the games I work on into yet another vector for social status jockeying and subsequent bullying - humans will inevitably find a way to do that with nearly anything, within their small circles. But to make that part of the bedrock reality of the system right from the start - to not just merely fail but to actively encourage that shit - is a total abdication of my moral responsibility as a media creator.
I’m personally fine with paid cosmetics, but I’ve read the exact same studies as every systems designer tasked with implementing randomized lootboxes (something I’ve thankfully been spared from having to choose between creating or finding another job), and that shit’s exactly the sort of dopamine burst conditioned response exploited by every casino and slot machine. Microtransaction lootboxes are a fucking cancer on the industry, and poisonous to every player of games that feature them.
posted by Ryvar at 7:57 PM on May 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
Ryvar: "Games that sell items offering an in-game advantage basically turn into yet another venue for rich people to beat up poor people - not across a few problematic schoolyards, or within specific communities - but for literally every single person playing the game."
For in-game advantage, maybe you're right, but for pure cosmetics (like Fortinite), I don't think it applies. In many communities, sure, it may become a means of bullying, but not all.
This is so much a cultural issue.
I say this because Fortnite is massively popular here in Japan, as well, but in the 7 or 8 months my two sons have been into Fortnite, I've seen none of the stuff described in the article. The Japanese servers are used by people connecting throughout Asia and the Middle East; you hear quite a few different languages being spoken, but you almost never see griefing, and I've never heard trash talk in Japanese or English (maybe there were people trash-talking in Vietnamese or Tagalog, I dunno).
Out of game, as well, I've seen the dynamics with both my 9 year old and my 13 year old. Both have friends with default skins and friends with big skin collections, and there's never any trash talking about it. Back when they played defaults, neither of my sons were hassled about it. The whole thing is just a non-issue.
Don't get me wrong, there is a bit of cachet to skins, but not in the way the article describes. The big deal is players with old skins. If a player has a skin that could only be obtained back in Season 2, everyone knows that they are a super veteran player and likely to be incredibly good at the game, so my kids and their friends are very impressed. But an expensive new skin? That's not seen as particularly impressive. What's respected is the skill assumed to come with seniority.
posted by Bugbread at 8:07 PM on May 7, 2019 [10 favorites]
For in-game advantage, maybe you're right, but for pure cosmetics (like Fortinite), I don't think it applies. In many communities, sure, it may become a means of bullying, but not all.
This is so much a cultural issue.
I say this because Fortnite is massively popular here in Japan, as well, but in the 7 or 8 months my two sons have been into Fortnite, I've seen none of the stuff described in the article. The Japanese servers are used by people connecting throughout Asia and the Middle East; you hear quite a few different languages being spoken, but you almost never see griefing, and I've never heard trash talk in Japanese or English (maybe there were people trash-talking in Vietnamese or Tagalog, I dunno).
Out of game, as well, I've seen the dynamics with both my 9 year old and my 13 year old. Both have friends with default skins and friends with big skin collections, and there's never any trash talking about it. Back when they played defaults, neither of my sons were hassled about it. The whole thing is just a non-issue.
Don't get me wrong, there is a bit of cachet to skins, but not in the way the article describes. The big deal is players with old skins. If a player has a skin that could only be obtained back in Season 2, everyone knows that they are a super veteran player and likely to be incredibly good at the game, so my kids and their friends are very impressed. But an expensive new skin? That's not seen as particularly impressive. What's respected is the skill assumed to come with seniority.
posted by Bugbread at 8:07 PM on May 7, 2019 [10 favorites]
I (and, I guess, my kids) am/are really lucky to be somewhat knowledgeable about games, because Fornite's system is pretty reasonable, if you know what you're doing.
You can play for free, and it's fun (I think). Over the course of a "season," you can play the game and complete certain challenges to earn a few goodies - some gestures, wallpapers, minor customization. Nothing fancy.
For $10, you can buy a battle pass, which is a season pass. This gives you some fake game money you can use to buy more goodies, including skins, or you can save for other purposes (which I will get back to). It also allows you, until the end of the season, to earn lots of goodies by playing the game and completing challenges. You can get a bunch of skins just by playing, without paying any additional money. And another thing you can earn by playing the game is...more of that fake game money.
When the season ends, you keep all the fake game money, skins, emotes, and other goodies you obtained, and you go back to "free player" mode.
But, here's the key point: if you saved up that fake game money, you can use it to...buy another battle pass.
As long as you save the money, you can just keep using it to buy the next battle pass, and the next, and the next, and accrue skins through play. There are like 7 skins per season, and while the last two require an unreasonable amount of play time to acquire, it's totally feasible to unlock 4 per season -- you unlock 2 just by getting the battle pass.
There are five seasons a year. You could, totally reasonably, unlock 20 skins (and a bunch of other gestures and backpacks and gliders and other cosmetics) a year with an outlay of just $10.
Of course, if you don't know this, it's easy to just blow your money stupidly. That's why I say I (and my kids) are lucky that I knew about the game before it blew up in their friend circle. Both my kids have a bunch of skins and decorations, for only that $10 for the initial season pass months ago.
posted by Bugbread at 8:28 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
You can play for free, and it's fun (I think). Over the course of a "season," you can play the game and complete certain challenges to earn a few goodies - some gestures, wallpapers, minor customization. Nothing fancy.
For $10, you can buy a battle pass, which is a season pass. This gives you some fake game money you can use to buy more goodies, including skins, or you can save for other purposes (which I will get back to). It also allows you, until the end of the season, to earn lots of goodies by playing the game and completing challenges. You can get a bunch of skins just by playing, without paying any additional money. And another thing you can earn by playing the game is...more of that fake game money.
When the season ends, you keep all the fake game money, skins, emotes, and other goodies you obtained, and you go back to "free player" mode.
But, here's the key point: if you saved up that fake game money, you can use it to...buy another battle pass.
As long as you save the money, you can just keep using it to buy the next battle pass, and the next, and the next, and accrue skins through play. There are like 7 skins per season, and while the last two require an unreasonable amount of play time to acquire, it's totally feasible to unlock 4 per season -- you unlock 2 just by getting the battle pass.
There are five seasons a year. You could, totally reasonably, unlock 20 skins (and a bunch of other gestures and backpacks and gliders and other cosmetics) a year with an outlay of just $10.
Of course, if you don't know this, it's easy to just blow your money stupidly. That's why I say I (and my kids) are lucky that I knew about the game before it blew up in their friend circle. Both my kids have a bunch of skins and decorations, for only that $10 for the initial season pass months ago.
posted by Bugbread at 8:28 PM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
I've bought a lot of big pants. Like, sometimes 20-35 bucks a pop in the late 90s. They were worth absolutely nothing but status and deleterious experience. I'm not saying that these business practices aren't predatory; I'm just saying that my mom and dad weren't able to adequately explain how to me either. I still think I'd have been a CEO if I'd gotten big enough pants in highschool.
posted by es_de_bah at 9:13 PM on May 7, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by es_de_bah at 9:13 PM on May 7, 2019 [12 favorites]
Of course any bullying, online and off - is obviously toxic and bad - but the use of the word 'default' as a casual, playground-level insult doesn't necessarily strike me as being super problematic. Amongst my son and his peers (13-14 yo), all of whom are deeply invested in Fortnite, the term isn't used to denigrate someone's social status or wealth, but simply their level of ability in the game. And you can also use 'default' self-referentially - for example, if he gets pick-axed within 30 seconds of landing he might say something like 'I am such a default' to the rest of his squad. Then add in the strategy of experienced players using 'default' skins to lull other players into a false sense of security, and it's not a cut and dried case of kids being monsters to each other. Of course, you can then extrapolate that to any situation - the classroom, the sports field, whatever, so that dropping a catch or getting a question wrong is 'default' behaviour. In his wider circle (and XBox circles get wide), it seems to be a cheeky and not entirely unaffectionate way of calling out a mistake or a moment of stupidity. Don't forget that this is a generation that seems to revel in pratfalls and bloopers and fails, regardless of whether they're obviously set up or not.
posted by srednivashtar at 3:04 AM on May 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by srednivashtar at 3:04 AM on May 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
You only need 1 skin. Tomatohead. All other skins are false skins.
posted by Damienmce at 7:16 AM on May 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Damienmce at 7:16 AM on May 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
As an Official Old (got my AARP card last year!), I can only relate this to my experiences back when I was the age where this sort of thing was SUPER IMPORTANT, and that age for me was in the early-mid 1980s, where I guess the only kinds of "skins" we really had to compete with were clothes and brands and things. If you didn't have the right jeans or sneakers or Trapper Keeper or whatever, you were on the outs.
But there's the possibility of punk or punk-adjacent (as a kid from the 'burbs, my idea of "punk" was very tame) that you can do in physical space with cast-off things that is difficult or impossible to do in virtual worlds that are paid for and you can't customize based on how the app works, so I wonder what the equivalent would be for a peer group of kids in Fortnite? Just not playing? Finding other games?
Sometimes, my being An Old feels like I'm really Old.
posted by xingcat at 7:34 AM on May 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
But there's the possibility of punk or punk-adjacent (as a kid from the 'burbs, my idea of "punk" was very tame) that you can do in physical space with cast-off things that is difficult or impossible to do in virtual worlds that are paid for and you can't customize based on how the app works, so I wonder what the equivalent would be for a peer group of kids in Fortnite? Just not playing? Finding other games?
Sometimes, my being An Old feels like I'm really Old.
posted by xingcat at 7:34 AM on May 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
... the only kinds of "skins" we really had to compete with were clothes and brands and things. If you didn't have the right jeans or sneakers or Trapper Keeper or whatever, you were on the outs.
I'd like to add that kids today also have to deal with that. And also having the cool phone. And also having the cool headphones. And also having the cool game skins.
It's super expensive to be a cool 12-year-old these days.
posted by FakeFreyja at 8:04 AM on May 8, 2019 [5 favorites]
I'd like to add that kids today also have to deal with that. And also having the cool phone. And also having the cool headphones. And also having the cool game skins.
It's super expensive to be a cool 12-year-old these days.
posted by FakeFreyja at 8:04 AM on May 8, 2019 [5 favorites]
xingcat: "I wonder what the equivalent would be for a peer group of kids in Fortnite? Just not playing? Finding other games? "
My guess would be something like "playing with the default skin, yet wearing this backpack" (or the like). That backpack is unlocked at level 93 (of a total of 100 levels) in the current season pass. By the time you've reached level 93, you've already unlocked six other skins. So anyone who sees that backpack knows that you have at least six other skins available (and maybe more, if you played previous seasons), yet you're choosing not to use them, instead going with default.
FakeFreyja: "It's super expensive to be a cool 12-year-old these days."
Hasn't it always been? Cool clothes, cool skateboards, cool bikes, cool shoes, cool watches, cool sunglasses, etc. cost a lot in the 1980s.
posted by Bugbread at 8:09 AM on May 8, 2019
My guess would be something like "playing with the default skin, yet wearing this backpack" (or the like). That backpack is unlocked at level 93 (of a total of 100 levels) in the current season pass. By the time you've reached level 93, you've already unlocked six other skins. So anyone who sees that backpack knows that you have at least six other skins available (and maybe more, if you played previous seasons), yet you're choosing not to use them, instead going with default.
FakeFreyja: "It's super expensive to be a cool 12-year-old these days."
Hasn't it always been? Cool clothes, cool skateboards, cool bikes, cool shoes, cool watches, cool sunglasses, etc. cost a lot in the 1980s.
posted by Bugbread at 8:09 AM on May 8, 2019
My almost-10 year old was obsessed with playing Fortnite for I dunno maybe 2 weeks? He downloaded it onto his Switch (without approval!) and started playing.
It became apparent to him, pretty quickly, that (a) he wasn't very good at it, and (b) it was really hard for him to find and connect to his friends, likely because they were providing gamer names to each other verbally on the playground. Which made it not fun, and he decided it wasn't for him.
Now he's back to Minecraft, where at least in multiplayer he knows for sure who is on his server - if another player shows up in his world, it's because they are physically in our house on our network. Java version, so custom skins are dead easy to make in Photoshop, thus his character looks (kinda) like him - when he got glasses, he logged in to see that I had updated his in-game skin to include glasses. He loved it.
He's started doing some online play using the Switch, using public servers, and likes the minigames - in these instances he has been able to connect with friends, because we've verified the gamertags during sleepovers when they were doing local multiplayer. I honestly think the lack of in-game chat is great. He uses his phone, on speaker, to talk with his friends, but they don't get trash talk from other players. This keeps some toxicity out I think.
posted by caution live frogs at 8:36 AM on May 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
It became apparent to him, pretty quickly, that (a) he wasn't very good at it, and (b) it was really hard for him to find and connect to his friends, likely because they were providing gamer names to each other verbally on the playground. Which made it not fun, and he decided it wasn't for him.
Now he's back to Minecraft, where at least in multiplayer he knows for sure who is on his server - if another player shows up in his world, it's because they are physically in our house on our network. Java version, so custom skins are dead easy to make in Photoshop, thus his character looks (kinda) like him - when he got glasses, he logged in to see that I had updated his in-game skin to include glasses. He loved it.
He's started doing some online play using the Switch, using public servers, and likes the minigames - in these instances he has been able to connect with friends, because we've verified the gamertags during sleepovers when they were doing local multiplayer. I honestly think the lack of in-game chat is great. He uses his phone, on speaker, to talk with his friends, but they don't get trash talk from other players. This keeps some toxicity out I think.
posted by caution live frogs at 8:36 AM on May 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
If the people the kids look up to modelled cool as being not giving a shit about cosmetics (or better still, mildly rolling their eyes or sneering at paid cosmetics)
Can't monetize your channel if you're constantly shitting on consumerism, though, right? That's the unfortunate reality of today's "celebrities." The nature of what makes them famous is often blatant consumerism, far more so than was the case with the rock stars and movie stars of our youth.
posted by asnider at 8:41 AM on May 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
Can't monetize your channel if you're constantly shitting on consumerism, though, right? That's the unfortunate reality of today's "celebrities." The nature of what makes them famous is often blatant consumerism, far more so than was the case with the rock stars and movie stars of our youth.
posted by asnider at 8:41 AM on May 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
It's really something how kids can take any kind of new descriptive vocabulary word and turn it into a weapon.
Wasn't 'basic' always an insult and a weapon? I mean, yeah kids can be mean, but I'm pretty sure 'basic' was made up by adults and kids have just adopted it a bit.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:02 AM on May 8, 2019
Wasn't 'basic' always an insult and a weapon? I mean, yeah kids can be mean, but I'm pretty sure 'basic' was made up by adults and kids have just adopted it a bit.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:02 AM on May 8, 2019
My pro quality pool cue deliberately looks like a one piece house cue (the term for this is “a sneaky Pete”). There are advantages to looking default.
posted by w0mbat at 10:30 AM on May 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by w0mbat at 10:30 AM on May 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
"I'm not default, I'm a [looks around] sleeper."
posted by Wild_Eep at 10:33 AM on May 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Wild_Eep at 10:33 AM on May 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
The_Vegetables: "Wasn't 'basic' always an insult and a weapon?"
Really? The first I heard of it was in the early 2000s. I definitely never heard it used that way in the 1990s or 1980s.
posted by Bugbread at 4:46 PM on May 8, 2019
Really? The first I heard of it was in the early 2000s. I definitely never heard it used that way in the 1990s or 1980s.
posted by Bugbread at 4:46 PM on May 8, 2019
In Snow Crash, Hiro derisively refers to uncultured newbies on his network as "Barbies and Kens" because of the default blond(e) avatars you get for free when you first sign up.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:18 AM on May 9, 2019
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:18 AM on May 9, 2019
In Snow Crash, Hiro derisively refers to uncultured newbies on his network as "Barbies and Kens" because of the default blond(e) avatars you get for free when you first sign up.
I've found it interesting that Second Life, which is based on Snow Crash, doesn't really have this. I mean, more than 50% of the economy is based on optimizing looks -- skins, bodies, clothing, hair, eyeballs! -- but people don't mock the players still rocking their 2005 avatars.
I guess we're an aging population, though, with less than 20% under 25. And that makes a big difference for civility, regardless of the platform.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:51 PM on May 9, 2019
I've found it interesting that Second Life, which is based on Snow Crash, doesn't really have this. I mean, more than 50% of the economy is based on optimizing looks -- skins, bodies, clothing, hair, eyeballs! -- but people don't mock the players still rocking their 2005 avatars.
I guess we're an aging population, though, with less than 20% under 25. And that makes a big difference for civility, regardless of the platform.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:51 PM on May 9, 2019
UPDATE. My son was playing Minecraft the other day on a public server, and he and his buddy started talking about one of their opponents.
"He's playing as a Steve."
"A Steve? Like a regular Steve?"
"Yeah."
"That's weird."
Of course, even the most basic Minecraft subscription comes with a few skins. My son likes to play as a chickenheaded butler, or as an ocelot-person. It is unusual to play with the default skin on these servers. But they didn't laugh at the opponent, or make fun of him/her for using the default. It was simply rare enough to cause comment.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:04 AM on May 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
"He's playing as a Steve."
"A Steve? Like a regular Steve?"
"Yeah."
"That's weird."
Of course, even the most basic Minecraft subscription comes with a few skins. My son likes to play as a chickenheaded butler, or as an ocelot-person. It is unusual to play with the default skin on these servers. But they didn't laugh at the opponent, or make fun of him/her for using the default. It was simply rare enough to cause comment.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:04 AM on May 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
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Only 12 year olds still play it.
(Says my 13 year old)
posted by Windopaene at 1:08 PM on May 7, 2019 [7 favorites]