The Nile is the world’s longest river? The Amazon would like a word.
June 18, 2023 12:26 PM Subscribe
Guinness World Records, Britannica and the U.S. government agree: The longest river in the world is the mighty Nile — the “father of African rivers,” Britannica says. But in Brazil, home to the powerful Amazon River, which cleaves South America more than slithers across it, the Nile’s standing is slightly lower. “Second biggest river in the world,” scoffs Portuguese-speaking Wikipedia. “The Amazon is the most extensive in the world,” declares the educational website Brazil School. (archive.today link)
I’ve always liked the contrast between the Nile and the Amazon. One is long and skinny and winds it’s way through the desert. One is big and powerful and cuts through the rainforest. It’s a natural rivalry, almost literary in its sensibility. It would be a less rich world if the top two rivers were competing along the same axes.
posted by TurnKey at 12:44 PM on June 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by TurnKey at 12:44 PM on June 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
I've spent hours and hours with satellite maps tracing all the major parts of both the Amazon and Nile rivers, especially the Amazon's weird interaction with the Orinoco when I learned of it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:45 PM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:45 PM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Seems like Guiness, UK, US are in denile about this
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 12:50 PM on June 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 12:50 PM on June 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
No, denile's in Egypt; (proper) Guinness is made in Ireland; the US is on it's own.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 1:12 PM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 1:12 PM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
I have it on good authority that girth > length.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:31 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:31 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Biggest and most extensive are not the same thing as longest, and vice versa.
posted by Galvanic at 1:36 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Galvanic at 1:36 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Nile is cool and all, tremendously important historically, but the Amazon is indisputably the ne plus ultra of the world's rivers.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:52 PM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:52 PM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Now ask the Brazilians who invented the aeroplane.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:28 PM on June 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 2:28 PM on June 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
The article makes it clear that river names are not considered by geographers summing up river lengths. But it still amuses me that to Brazilians, the Amazon is just 900 miles long— because they consider that it's formed by the confluence of the Rio Negro and the Rio Solimões at Manaus. Then if you follow the Solimões into Peru, it becomes the Amazon again.
posted by zompist at 2:40 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by zompist at 2:40 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is why, for me, when it comes to ranking rivers by size, it's total discharge or GTFO.
posted by midmarch snowman at 3:56 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by midmarch snowman at 3:56 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is why, for me, when it comes to ranking rivers by size, it's total discharge or GTFO.
By that definition the Colorado River technically isn't a river.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
By that definition the Colorado River technically isn't a river.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
Hey no stream shaming
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:04 PM on June 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:04 PM on June 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
This all boils down to power. There's no objective fact of the matter about which river is longest, given that the question reduces to selecting among different, equally viable definitions of "river length," "source," etc.
Since the question will ultimately be resolved by who has the most power, we should leave its answer up to the Hulk.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 4:59 PM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Since the question will ultimately be resolved by who has the most power, we should leave its answer up to the Hulk.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 4:59 PM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Biggest and most extensive are not the same thing as
which brings to mind the world's largest lake. That's Superior obviously, which covers the most square miles. Except Russia's Lake Baikal contains far more water, because it's way deeper ...
posted by philip-random at 6:00 PM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
which brings to mind the world's largest lake. That's Superior obviously, which covers the most square miles. Except Russia's Lake Baikal contains far more water, because it's way deeper ...
posted by philip-random at 6:00 PM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
No, denile's in Egypt; (proper) Guinness is made in Ireland; the US is on it's own.
Favorited on Father's Day.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 6:17 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Favorited on Father's Day.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 6:17 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
“which brings to mind the world's largest lake. That's Superior obviously, which covers the most square miles. Except Russia's Lake Baikal contains far more water, because it's way deeper”
Lake Superior is cool and all, much more important commercially and politically, but Lake Baikal is indisputably the ne plus ultra of the world's freshwater lakes.
(Sorry, not sorry. Lake Baikal absolutely fascinates me. Way more than does Superior.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:36 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Lake Superior is cool and all, much more important commercially and politically, but Lake Baikal is indisputably the ne plus ultra of the world's freshwater lakes.
(Sorry, not sorry. Lake Baikal absolutely fascinates me. Way more than does Superior.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:36 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
No, denile's in Egypt; (proper) Guinness is made in Ireland; the US is on it's own.
Heineken!? Shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!
Here's Johnny!
posted by y2karl at 6:38 PM on June 18, 2023
Heineken!? Shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!
Here's Johnny!
posted by y2karl at 6:38 PM on June 18, 2023
Obviously area of drainage basin is a more relevant measurement of river dimension than length. Amazon wins hands down.
posted by St. Oops at 6:46 PM on June 18, 2023
posted by St. Oops at 6:46 PM on June 18, 2023
I’ve read that, prior to the separation of Africa and South America by the processes of continental drift, the Amazon and the Congo rivers were joined where they now flow out from their respective coastlines into the South Atlantic.
I don’t quite see how that would have worked in the topography of supercontinent Gondwana which they they were part of, but water then flowed west in the channel that became part of the Amazon, and the collision of plates which raised the Andes had not yet taken place.
It would be interesting to locate the remains of the mouth of that great river wherever it is in contemporary South America and take a look at the fossils there.
posted by jamjam at 7:16 PM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don’t quite see how that would have worked in the topography of supercontinent Gondwana which they they were part of, but water then flowed west in the channel that became part of the Amazon, and the collision of plates which raised the Andes had not yet taken place.
It would be interesting to locate the remains of the mouth of that great river wherever it is in contemporary South America and take a look at the fossils there.
posted by jamjam at 7:16 PM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
“Obviously area of drainage basin is a more relevant measurement of river dimension than length. Amazon wins hands down.”
And the Congo is second on that list. I thought the Mississippi would rank higher, but it's like sixth or so. Wait... does the Mississippi drainage basin include the Missouri's? It should.
I looked it up. Most sources do include the Missouri river basin in the Mississippi's, which makes it third on the list. I dunno why the first source I found didn't.
But the Amazon is ahead of the Congo by a large margin. There's nothing comparable.
It'd be funny if the Sahara were one huge drainage basin with a puny river. That'd put a kink in the whole "drainage area is the true metric" argument. (I do think you could get the conditions which created and are enlarging the Sahara whilst it being a single, giant drainage basin. Alas, it's not.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:36 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
And the Congo is second on that list. I thought the Mississippi would rank higher, but it's like sixth or so. Wait... does the Mississippi drainage basin include the Missouri's? It should.
I looked it up. Most sources do include the Missouri river basin in the Mississippi's, which makes it third on the list. I dunno why the first source I found didn't.
But the Amazon is ahead of the Congo by a large margin. There's nothing comparable.
It'd be funny if the Sahara were one huge drainage basin with a puny river. That'd put a kink in the whole "drainage area is the true metric" argument. (I do think you could get the conditions which created and are enlarging the Sahara whilst it being a single, giant drainage basin. Alas, it's not.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:36 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I really love geography, precisely because it's ultimately it's the study of how humans interact with the land theyre on, and therefore so many things that seem like they should be objective (How many continents are there, what's the longest river, what's the tallest mountain?) ultimately are vague or are influenced by history or tradition.
I'm trying to remember if there's any outstanding reason why the Ohio and Missouri are tributaries of the Mississippi opposed to vice versa other then "that's what the french explorers decided on the 1700s"
posted by midmarch snowman at 9:10 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm trying to remember if there's any outstanding reason why the Ohio and Missouri are tributaries of the Mississippi opposed to vice versa other then "that's what the french explorers decided on the 1700s"
posted by midmarch snowman at 9:10 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
It’s like the tallest mountain debate. There are three contenders it all depends on what you consider the most important measurement.
For the record the three mountains are:
Mt Everest - altitude above mean sea level
Mount Chimborazo - distance from the center of the Earth
Mauna Kea - height base to tip
posted by jmauro at 9:34 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
For the record the three mountains are:
Mt Everest - altitude above mean sea level
Mount Chimborazo - distance from the center of the Earth
Mauna Kea - height base to tip
posted by jmauro at 9:34 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
my vote is reserved for K2 mainly because I had K2 skis as a kid. And you gotta love a mountain with a thoroughly modern name. I've also got a feeling it has the highest deaths (91) to ascents (377) ratio.
posted by philip-random at 10:08 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 10:08 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Italian climber Fosco Maraini argued in his account of the ascent of Gasherbrum IV that while the name of K2 owes its origin to chance, its clipped, impersonal nature is highly appropriate for so remote and challenging a mountain. He concluded that it was:posted by Pachylad at 10:21 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]... just the bare bones of a name, all rock and ice and storm and abyss. It makes no attempt to sound human. It is atoms and stars. It has the nakedness of the world before the first man—or of the cindered planet after the last
my vote is reserved for K2 mainly because I had K2 skis as a kid.
The K-12 dude. You make a gnarly run like that and girls will get sterile just looking at you.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:22 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
The K-12 dude. You make a gnarly run like that and girls will get sterile just looking at you.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:22 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm gonna go with Mauna Kea being the tallest, because "altitude above mean sea level" sounds to me like I would be taller when I climb a set of stairs.
No I'm not the best at geography.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 2:14 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
No I'm not the best at geography.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 2:14 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
the world's largest lake. That's Superior obviously, which covers the most square miles
A giant wave busts into your house holding a cudgel. I AM THE CASPIAN SEA AND I WILL HAVE YOUR FUCKING RESPECT! it shouts wetly.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:03 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
A giant wave busts into your house holding a cudgel. I AM THE CASPIAN SEA AND I WILL HAVE YOUR FUCKING RESPECT! it shouts wetly.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:03 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm trying to remember if there's any outstanding reason why the Ohio and Missouri are tributaries of the Mississippi opposed to vice versa other then "that's what the french explorers decided on the 1700s.”
Because the Missouri and Ohio flow into the Mississippi? That’s kinda the whole definition of tributary.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:08 AM on June 19, 2023
Because the Missouri and Ohio flow into the Mississippi? That’s kinda the whole definition of tributary.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:08 AM on June 19, 2023
Because the Missouri and Ohio flow into the Mississippi? That’s kinda the whole definition of tributary.
I think the question is more along the lines of "Two rivers flow together. How does one decide river A is joining B, or is B joining A?" Is that decided by the river lengths before the merge? By total flow? By the angle of inputs versus the output? It feels like it's a subject ripe(arian) for debate!
posted by notoriety public at 6:38 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think the question is more along the lines of "Two rivers flow together. How does one decide river A is joining B, or is B joining A?" Is that decided by the river lengths before the merge? By total flow? By the angle of inputs versus the output? It feels like it's a subject ripe(arian) for debate!
posted by notoriety public at 6:38 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, Thorzdad, but defining a tributary has just as many vagaries as defining "tallest mountain" as jmauro listed above, and the headwaters of the Mississippi thing is a great example of this.
Obvious the tributary is the river the flows into the other river. But.... ultimately both rivers are just collections of silt and freshwater traveling down in elevation.... if you go north of St. Louis and look at the confluence there... how do you decide the West River is flowing INTO the East River... why isn't the East river flowing INTO the West River?
You could just go with the smaller river is the tributary, that's what the dictionary says... oooookay... the East River has a slightly larger average discharge... but the West river is much longer and the drainage basin is over 2.5 times larger (500,000 vs 195,000 square miles)! And given the size of the drainage basin and the amount of irrigation and reservoir usage I'm curious if at different times of climate history whether the discharge of the West River was larger. But, lets say you're an explorer in 1650 sitting at future site of Confluence Park in present day Missouri and you just eyeball it. The West river is more silt laden, like the downstream main river... but the East River is more broad.... and it seems like the East River is traveling more straight so... sure... call the East River the main river and the West the tributary.
Ok, go south to Cairo Illinois and again you have an East and West river that look similar, and again East River has a much larger discharge, and the East river seems to be traveling straight through the confluence and the West River is joining it.... so following consistent logic... the East River is again the main river and the West River is the tributary?
Except the branch we call the Mississippi is the larger East branch in St Louis but the smaller West branch in Cairo..... or wait... by difference criteria... it's the larger branch at Cairo... but if we're staying consistent it's the smaller branch in St. Louis?
Ultimately, a large stream of flowing water is the Mississippi because we called it that. Not because of consistent objective criteria. And that's fine, who cares? It's just interesting. And ultimately it's a story about humans and our history as much as it's a story about geology.
posted by midmarch snowman at 6:52 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
Obvious the tributary is the river the flows into the other river. But.... ultimately both rivers are just collections of silt and freshwater traveling down in elevation.... if you go north of St. Louis and look at the confluence there... how do you decide the West River is flowing INTO the East River... why isn't the East river flowing INTO the West River?
You could just go with the smaller river is the tributary, that's what the dictionary says... oooookay... the East River has a slightly larger average discharge... but the West river is much longer and the drainage basin is over 2.5 times larger (500,000 vs 195,000 square miles)! And given the size of the drainage basin and the amount of irrigation and reservoir usage I'm curious if at different times of climate history whether the discharge of the West River was larger. But, lets say you're an explorer in 1650 sitting at future site of Confluence Park in present day Missouri and you just eyeball it. The West river is more silt laden, like the downstream main river... but the East River is more broad.... and it seems like the East River is traveling more straight so... sure... call the East River the main river and the West the tributary.
Ok, go south to Cairo Illinois and again you have an East and West river that look similar, and again East River has a much larger discharge, and the East river seems to be traveling straight through the confluence and the West River is joining it.... so following consistent logic... the East River is again the main river and the West River is the tributary?
Except the branch we call the Mississippi is the larger East branch in St Louis but the smaller West branch in Cairo..... or wait... by difference criteria... it's the larger branch at Cairo... but if we're staying consistent it's the smaller branch in St. Louis?
Ultimately, a large stream of flowing water is the Mississippi because we called it that. Not because of consistent objective criteria. And that's fine, who cares? It's just interesting. And ultimately it's a story about humans and our history as much as it's a story about geology.
posted by midmarch snowman at 6:52 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
It feels like it's a subject ripe(arian) for debate!
...
Get out.
posted by midmarch snowman at 6:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
...
Get out.
posted by midmarch snowman at 6:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Well the Nile is 2,400 m above sea level, while the Amazon is 5,598 m so the Amazon is taller.
posted by Lanark at 9:17 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 9:17 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
okay then, let's go there. What's the tallest river in the world?
posted by philip-random at 9:50 AM on June 19, 2023
posted by philip-random at 9:50 AM on June 19, 2023
Guinness has the highest as the Yarlung Zangbo River Tibet, the source is 6,020 m.
posted by Lanark at 1:54 PM on June 19, 2023
posted by Lanark at 1:54 PM on June 19, 2023
What do you mean by tallest? Highest headwaters? greatest average height?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:13 PM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:13 PM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
No, of the "tallest" river.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:00 PM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:00 PM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
The Dudh Kosi river, a tributary of the mighty Sapt Kosi river further south, is the highest elevation river in the world, and drains water from Mount Everest.
The Yarlung Tsapo flows through the South Tibet Valley starting at an altitude of 14,800 feet and drains into the Indian Ocean. About one-third of the river flows at an altitude of over 13,000 feet and about three-quarters of the river flows over 9,000 feet above the sea level.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:46 PM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
The Yarlung Tsapo flows through the South Tibet Valley starting at an altitude of 14,800 feet and drains into the Indian Ocean. About one-third of the river flows at an altitude of over 13,000 feet and about three-quarters of the river flows over 9,000 feet above the sea level.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:46 PM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
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