"Why we talk about Reagan"
February 8, 2002 12:26 PM Subscribe
Peggy Noonan is hardly an unbiased journalist in this case. If she's writing to talk to those who are already believers, then she's done a fine job. But she's not convincing anyone else.
posted by Red58 at 12:37 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by Red58 at 12:37 PM on February 8, 2002
I really hate Peggy Noonan.
posted by donkeyschlong at 12:37 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by donkeyschlong at 12:37 PM on February 8, 2002
Noonan left off the best reason she talks about Reagan: She's completely unhinged. A passage from another of her creepy love poems to him, quoted here:
"I first saw [President Reagan] as a foot, highly polished brown cordovan wagging merrily on a hassock. I spied it through the door. It was a beautiful foot, sleek. Such casual elegance and clean lines! But not a big foot, not formidable, maybe a little frail. I imagined cradling it in my arms, protecting it from unsmooth roads."
posted by rcade at 12:40 PM on February 8, 2002
"I first saw [President Reagan] as a foot, highly polished brown cordovan wagging merrily on a hassock. I spied it through the door. It was a beautiful foot, sleek. Such casual elegance and clean lines! But not a big foot, not formidable, maybe a little frail. I imagined cradling it in my arms, protecting it from unsmooth roads."
posted by rcade at 12:40 PM on February 8, 2002
I have to say as much as i didn't particularly care for Nancy back when they were in the White House, I have nothing but the utmost respect for her now....I heard on the radio yesterday that if they had put him in a rest home that the government would have covered all the cost of his care(I guess because he was a former President) but that she and the rest of the family kept him at home and therefore are paying for it all themselves....yes they have the money, but still, from what I understand she is still very much the loyal wife....I give her that.
posted by bunnyfire at 12:40 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by bunnyfire at 12:40 PM on February 8, 2002
Oh-and in the interests of total disclosure, my last name happens to be Reagan. But we aren't on the Christmas card list or anything.
posted by bunnyfire at 12:43 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by bunnyfire at 12:43 PM on February 8, 2002
Didn't we have this conversation yesterday? Were you absent yesterday bunnyfire? Note, please?
posted by luser at 12:56 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by luser at 12:56 PM on February 8, 2002
"I first saw [President Reagan] as a foot, highly polished brown cordovan wagging merrily on a hassock. I spied it through the door. It was a beautiful foot, sleek. Such casual elegance and clean lines! But not a big foot, not formidable, maybe a little frail. I imagined cradling it in my arms, protecting it from unsmooth roads."
So Peggy's a foot fetishist. Who knew?!
posted by chuq at 1:04 PM on February 8, 2002
So Peggy's a foot fetishist. Who knew?!
posted by chuq at 1:04 PM on February 8, 2002
Let's talk about Jimmy Carter. I like him much more.
posted by hotdoughnutsnow at 1:20 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by hotdoughnutsnow at 1:20 PM on February 8, 2002
On the day in 1979 when we was first elected President, I went out my front door and screamed in terror and consternation. I feel no different now.
posted by Danf at 1:23 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by Danf at 1:23 PM on February 8, 2002
and isn't the Wall Street Journal part of the "media" anyhow?
posted by zoopraxiscope at 1:27 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by zoopraxiscope at 1:27 PM on February 8, 2002
All of this stuff in the press lately about how great Reagan was is really turning me off. Does anybody remember what this country was like in the 80's in Reagan's leadership?
posted by bob bisquick at 1:33 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by bob bisquick at 1:33 PM on February 8, 2002
Actually, the first time he was elected, I had voted for John Anderson....
But 30 years from now you can't tell me you will have warm and fuzzy feelings for Clinton either. And I can't imagine Hillary caring for Bill like Nancy is for Ronnie either. Politics aside, it is a love story. And being married to a Reagan myself...... :-)
posted by bunnyfire at 1:37 PM on February 8, 2002
But 30 years from now you can't tell me you will have warm and fuzzy feelings for Clinton either. And I can't imagine Hillary caring for Bill like Nancy is for Ronnie either. Politics aside, it is a love story. And being married to a Reagan myself...... :-)
posted by bunnyfire at 1:37 PM on February 8, 2002
Ok, Bunnyfire. Since this link seems prompted by a need for self-promotion, who are you married to?
posted by vacapinta at 1:41 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by vacapinta at 1:41 PM on February 8, 2002
Ralph. But all I meant was that Reagan men are very huggable.
posted by bunnyfire at 1:44 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by bunnyfire at 1:44 PM on February 8, 2002
More than that and I promise I will buy a text ad from Matt.
posted by bunnyfire at 1:45 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by bunnyfire at 1:45 PM on February 8, 2002
Now can we get back to discussing how wonderful Ronald Reagan was?
Did you know he has lived longer than any other president? Although it is sadly ironic that Alzheimer's has robbed him of any enjoyment of that fact.
posted by bunnyfire at 1:48 PM on February 8, 2002
Did you know he has lived longer than any other president? Although it is sadly ironic that Alzheimer's has robbed him of any enjoyment of that fact.
posted by bunnyfire at 1:48 PM on February 8, 2002
I can't stand Reagan and, although Alzheimer's is awful and I'm sorry it happened to him and his family, I don't feel any warm and fluffy feelings about him. He made the Republican party the party of the rich, anti-choice, white, christian men, his inaction and bigotry led to the deaths of thousands of people from AIDS, turned a blind eye to the crack epidimic that took over the cities under his watch, increased cold war tensions, and ran our debt into the stratosphere.
The man deserves to be ridiculed, not have airports named after him.
If Peggy loves him, that's her deal. But I never, ever will.
posted by aacheson at 1:48 PM on February 8, 2002
The man deserves to be ridiculed, not have airports named after him.
If Peggy loves him, that's her deal. But I never, ever will.
posted by aacheson at 1:48 PM on February 8, 2002
My thoughts exactly!
posted by bob bisquick at 1:53 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by bob bisquick at 1:53 PM on February 8, 2002
Those of us who lived in and feel we understood the age of Ronald Reagan have a great responsibility: to explain and tell and communicate...what it cost him to stand where he stood...
If we don't tell the young they'll never know.
Except that her entire essay is almost content free about this subject. She's not telling me, so I guess I'll never know why she thinks Reagan was so great or what she thinks it "cost" him to be conservative (a life free of all the hassles of being Governor and then President?)
posted by straight at 1:55 PM on February 8, 2002
If we don't tell the young they'll never know.
Except that her entire essay is almost content free about this subject. She's not telling me, so I guess I'll never know why she thinks Reagan was so great or what she thinks it "cost" him to be conservative (a life free of all the hassles of being Governor and then President?)
posted by straight at 1:55 PM on February 8, 2002
straight: I totally thought that, too. I mean, she keeps saying 'Oh, I'll tell you why I keep talking about him,' but that's the entirety of the article! The bet she can come up with was 'he was great, he paid a cost'? Hardly worth accolades. We all pay costs.
I'll tell her where she can put that foot....
posted by bison at 2:01 PM on February 8, 2002
I'll tell her where she can put that foot....
posted by bison at 2:01 PM on February 8, 2002
aacheson,
if I promise to credit you every time I use your last comment, may I copy it? It was perfect.
(It will be useful in my arguements with the Republican branch of my family.)
posted by ajayb at 2:01 PM on February 8, 2002
if I promise to credit you every time I use your last comment, may I copy it? It was perfect.
(It will be useful in my arguements with the Republican branch of my family.)
posted by ajayb at 2:01 PM on February 8, 2002
Can anyone tell me how Nancy caring for Ronnie makes him a great man and how Bunny's perception of Hillary not being willing to waste her mind doing nurse work for Bill indicative of his lack of greatness? How is wifely selflessness a measure of the greatness of men?
posted by Red58 at 2:01 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by Red58 at 2:01 PM on February 8, 2002
So I still don't really get why he's so great. Is it just because he's the only Republican president since Eisenhower to make it through two terms without getting his dirty deeds found out?
posted by daveadams at 2:02 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by daveadams at 2:02 PM on February 8, 2002
Before we go branding Reagan as a nasty homophobe, perhaps we should remember that as California governor, he supported the right of gays to teach in schools--something that is still considered a liberal shibboleth. Reagan was never really in the FoF camp on that issue, at least.
posted by thomas j wise at 2:02 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by thomas j wise at 2:02 PM on February 8, 2002
Well, the Berlin Wall came down.
You know, maybe the people in Germany had something to do with that as well?
Sorry for the snark, but I hate it when people use that event as an example of Reagan's legacy. It's such a complex event, and it's insulting to everyone else involved to say, or even imply, "Yeah...Reagan did that."
posted by thewittyname at 2:04 PM on February 8, 2002
You know, maybe the people in Germany had something to do with that as well?
Sorry for the snark, but I hate it when people use that event as an example of Reagan's legacy. It's such a complex event, and it's insulting to everyone else involved to say, or even imply, "Yeah...Reagan did that."
posted by thewittyname at 2:04 PM on February 8, 2002
Who was the last 'great' president? Or, if none, who was the last 'good' president? What were their accomplishments that so outweighed their faults that you consider them great or good?
posted by Mack Twain at 2:05 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by Mack Twain at 2:05 PM on February 8, 2002
>Well, the Berlin Wall came down.
Blue jeans and Big Macs did more than Reagan ever dreamed of doing to bring down that wall.
posted by McBain at 2:05 PM on February 8, 2002
Blue jeans and Big Macs did more than Reagan ever dreamed of doing to bring down that wall.
posted by McBain at 2:05 PM on February 8, 2002
well, we did discuss reagan yesterday, but not to this degree of inanity. i do get caught often calling him an evil mastermind and a dottering old fool in the same sentance which leaves me in a bit of a conundrum when it comes to debating strategy. i think we can come up with something a little bit better to discuss than peggy noonan's gushing tribute to the gipster though...
thank you red58. you summed up my thoughts exactly.
NEXT...
posted by goneill at 2:11 PM on February 8, 2002
thank you red58. you summed up my thoughts exactly.
NEXT...
posted by goneill at 2:11 PM on February 8, 2002
Who was the last 'great' president?
None of the above.
posted by daveadams at 2:12 PM on February 8, 2002
None of the above.
posted by daveadams at 2:12 PM on February 8, 2002
her entire essay is almost content free about this subject. She's not telling me, so I guess I'll never know why she thinks Reagan was so great
Peggy Noonan, writing in the Wall Street Journal, doesn't have to explain why Reagan was great, it's a given. This frees her to indulge her hero worship, and to come up with numerous metaphors for "great."
posted by Ty Webb at 2:14 PM on February 8, 2002
Peggy Noonan, writing in the Wall Street Journal, doesn't have to explain why Reagan was great, it's a given. This frees her to indulge her hero worship, and to come up with numerous metaphors for "great."
posted by Ty Webb at 2:14 PM on February 8, 2002
If I'd been old enough to vote, I'd have rather cast a ballot for Connie Reagan than Ronnie Reagan.
posted by allaboutgeorge at 2:15 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by allaboutgeorge at 2:15 PM on February 8, 2002
his inaction and bigotry led to the deaths of thousands of people from AIDS
I've always wondered about this claim. I have heard that Regean did not recoginize AIDS as a disease and allocated to funding towards its study. But do you really think that his 'bigotry led to the deaths of thousands of people'?
posted by cell divide at 2:16 PM on February 8, 2002
I've always wondered about this claim. I have heard that Regean did not recoginize AIDS as a disease and allocated to funding towards its study. But do you really think that his 'bigotry led to the deaths of thousands of people'?
posted by cell divide at 2:16 PM on February 8, 2002
Who was the last 'great' president?
We never had one.
posted by thirteen at 2:17 PM on February 8, 2002
We never had one.
posted by thirteen at 2:17 PM on February 8, 2002
I was just posting an item on my blog a couple days back bemoaning yet more of this Reagan revisionism -- and couldn't find any decent anti-Reagan sites. It's worse than Nixon revisionism. This man dismantled every decent social program in this country, and did it with that false Hollywood smile on his face. He fiddled while Rome burned, and he was the bloody arsonist. What is it that makes us colectively forget such things?
posted by brookish at 2:19 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by brookish at 2:19 PM on February 8, 2002
Those of us who lived in and feel we understood the age of Ronald Reagan have a great responsibility: to explain and tell and communicate who he was and what he did and how he did it and why.
Yeah, like remember the case of, um, wait, it's....um...uh...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......
posted by Ufez Jones at 2:22 PM on February 8, 2002
Yeah, like remember the case of, um, wait, it's....um...uh...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......
posted by Ufez Jones at 2:22 PM on February 8, 2002
"...So I still don't really get why he's so great. Is it just because he's the only Republican president since Eisenhower to make it through two terms without getting his dirty deeds found out?..."
No wonder people remeber him fondly ... the last Democratic president wasn't even able to make it through two months.
posted by MidasMulligan at 2:28 PM on February 8, 2002
No wonder people remeber him fondly ... the last Democratic president wasn't even able to make it through two months.
posted by MidasMulligan at 2:28 PM on February 8, 2002
The Berlin Wall comes down and it is attributed to Reagan.
The World Trade Towers were destroyed...shall we attribute this to Bush?
Sigh.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:29 PM on February 8, 2002
The World Trade Towers were destroyed...shall we attribute this to Bush?
Sigh.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:29 PM on February 8, 2002
Is it just because he's the only Republican president since Eisenhower to make it through two terms without getting his dirty deeds found out?
They weren't found out? Hell, I knew about them, and I was just a kid.
posted by jpoulos at 2:40 PM on February 8, 2002
They weren't found out? Hell, I knew about them, and I was just a kid.
posted by jpoulos at 2:40 PM on February 8, 2002
The editorial would've been more convincing if it focused on something other than why this is currently the most historically opportunistic time to speak nicely about Reagan.
posted by DaShiv at 2:45 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by DaShiv at 2:45 PM on February 8, 2002
the berlin wall came down in 1990. wasn't bush sr. in office then? so maybe we should give clinton credit for the 9/11 thing.
posted by hob at 2:47 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by hob at 2:47 PM on February 8, 2002
hob-
I wasn't taking sides at all, merely pointing out the silliness of automatically attributing an event to the president who was in charge at the time.
Besides, there was that whole Mt. St. Helens thing.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:51 PM on February 8, 2002
I wasn't taking sides at all, merely pointing out the silliness of automatically attributing an event to the president who was in charge at the time.
Besides, there was that whole Mt. St. Helens thing.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:51 PM on February 8, 2002
i do get caught often calling him an evil mastermind and a dottering old fool in the same sentance
Does anyone remember the Phil Hartman as Ronald Reagan sketch from SNL in the 80s??
posted by owillis at 2:58 PM on February 8, 2002
Does anyone remember the Phil Hartman as Ronald Reagan sketch from SNL in the 80s??
posted by owillis at 2:58 PM on February 8, 2002
Here's what I think about when people talk about Reagan:
http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html
Sorry about not posting it directly as a link. I'm no good at that fancy stuff, yet.
posted by cheineking at 3:02 PM on February 8, 2002
http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html
Sorry about not posting it directly as a link. I'm no good at that fancy stuff, yet.
posted by cheineking at 3:02 PM on February 8, 2002
Not to mention the thousands of innocent Nicaraguans who died and lost their homes due to Reagan's Contras. . .
And at home, as part of Income Tax Reform and fighting the "underground economy" a number of people I knew who made their livings waiting tables were suddenly on the hook for back taxes on their supposed ill-gotten gains from tips, whether they actually earned the tips or not.
I could go on. . .
posted by Danf at 3:14 PM on February 8, 2002
And at home, as part of Income Tax Reform and fighting the "underground economy" a number of people I knew who made their livings waiting tables were suddenly on the hook for back taxes on their supposed ill-gotten gains from tips, whether they actually earned the tips or not.
I could go on. . .
posted by Danf at 3:14 PM on February 8, 2002
face it owillis...phil hartman was the best president we ever had. I miss him.
reagan was a great counter-point to punk rock. He and thatcher made it better somehow...and while it is sad he isn't well--my father has parkinsons, and it sucks to watch someone who doesn't know where they are--he shouldn't be white-washed.
once there was a president
who was an actor
do you think that could be a factor?
s.sundiata
posted by th3ph17 at 3:19 PM on February 8, 2002
reagan was a great counter-point to punk rock. He and thatcher made it better somehow...and while it is sad he isn't well--my father has parkinsons, and it sucks to watch someone who doesn't know where they are--he shouldn't be white-washed.
once there was a president
who was an actor
do you think that could be a factor?
s.sundiata
posted by th3ph17 at 3:19 PM on February 8, 2002
Noonan is unhinged, and is a loyal foot soldier in the Reagan-for-King movement. This quote mentioned above tells the story:
I think it was the OC Weekly article linked from the previous discussion on Reagan that said even during the Revolutionary war there was a segment of the colonial population that wanted a King and all the feudal territory that comes with it- and suggested that we should be unsurprised that there still exists such a segment of our population that desires a King, a father figure that will rule us all in Goodness and Might. Noonan's writing is littered with such imagery, a schoolgirl longing for these mythic Hero figures (while Reagan will always be her first love, she has adopted this sublimated sexual adoration for Bush II as well) who battle the evil of the Other, most recently KKKlinton the Seducer and Liar.
Very sad. The woman needs serious therapy...
posted by hincandenza at 3:27 PM on February 8, 2002
I first saw [President Reagan] as a foot, highly polished brown cordovan wagging merrily on a hassock. I spied it through the door. It was a beautiful foot, sleek. Such casual elegance and clean lines! But not a big foot, not formidable, maybe a little frail. I imagined cradling it in my arms, protecting it from unsmooth roads."That's not political commentary- that's witnessing, people! Peggy Noonan as the nameless harlot, washing the feet of Reagan with her tears and drying them with her hair. Reagan (that anti-democratic bastard) represents a Christ figure to right-wingers like Noonan, because their politics has never been about mere dispute or disagreement of secular political policy. It's a holy war of Good and Righteousness versus the forces of Evil and Liberalism being fought on the battlefield of a democratic nation. It's no surprise that Reagan and his present-day acolytes often use such apocalyptic, End Times language, or that the the Christian Right merged with the Republican part- both have at their heart this Holy War mentality (perhaps inherited in part from the paranoid state of mind that Nixon so embodied- many of the Reagan/Bush heavy hitters got their start with the Nixon administration).
I think it was the OC Weekly article linked from the previous discussion on Reagan that said even during the Revolutionary war there was a segment of the colonial population that wanted a King and all the feudal territory that comes with it- and suggested that we should be unsurprised that there still exists such a segment of our population that desires a King, a father figure that will rule us all in Goodness and Might. Noonan's writing is littered with such imagery, a schoolgirl longing for these mythic Hero figures (while Reagan will always be her first love, she has adopted this sublimated sexual adoration for Bush II as well) who battle the evil of the Other, most recently KKKlinton the Seducer and Liar.
Very sad. The woman needs serious therapy...
posted by hincandenza at 3:27 PM on February 8, 2002
Bunnyfire, I enjoyed the article. Nice link regardless of the reaction here. It is funny to read comments that there isn't a liberal bias here on mefi.
posted by Oxydude at 3:37 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by Oxydude at 3:37 PM on February 8, 2002
his inaction and bigotry led to the deaths of thousands of people from AIDS
And the PC police cried foul at the idea of shutting down infection sites. If everyone was getting lethal food poisoning at a restaurant, it would be rightly shut down. Why were(are) bathhouses different? On top of this, the myth of a straight epidemic led to misguided AIDS prevention. AIDS was a fuck up all around. Not just Reagan's.
There are lots of ways to bash Reagan, but AIDS and the homless aren't them.
As has been said, Noonan is a cheerleader.
posted by McBain at 3:40 PM on February 8, 2002
And the PC police cried foul at the idea of shutting down infection sites. If everyone was getting lethal food poisoning at a restaurant, it would be rightly shut down. Why were(are) bathhouses different? On top of this, the myth of a straight epidemic led to misguided AIDS prevention. AIDS was a fuck up all around. Not just Reagan's.
There are lots of ways to bash Reagan, but AIDS and the homless aren't them.
As has been said, Noonan is a cheerleader.
posted by McBain at 3:40 PM on February 8, 2002
They weren't found out? Hell, I knew about them, and I was just a kid.
I guess I meant they weren't found out to the extent that he could be easily prosecuted.
It is funny to read comments that there isn't a liberal bias here on mefi.
Whether you liked Reagan or not, the article was pointless fluff. Also note that it is possible to be critical of Reagan without being a "liberal".
posted by daveadams at 3:42 PM on February 8, 2002
I guess I meant they weren't found out to the extent that he could be easily prosecuted.
It is funny to read comments that there isn't a liberal bias here on mefi.
Whether you liked Reagan or not, the article was pointless fluff. Also note that it is possible to be critical of Reagan without being a "liberal".
posted by daveadams at 3:42 PM on February 8, 2002
It is funny to read comments that there isn't a liberal bias here on mefi.
What does this mean anyway? That there are more liberals than conservatives? So what? Everyone has their opportunity to speak and say what they will. The word "bias" implies that there is some editorial function artificially balancing links and comments in a liberal way. But if you really believe that, you'll have to take it up with Matt, and not the posters in this thread.
posted by daveadams at 3:46 PM on February 8, 2002
What does this mean anyway? That there are more liberals than conservatives? So what? Everyone has their opportunity to speak and say what they will. The word "bias" implies that there is some editorial function artificially balancing links and comments in a liberal way. But if you really believe that, you'll have to take it up with Matt, and not the posters in this thread.
posted by daveadams at 3:46 PM on February 8, 2002
If you were Nancy, would you let the author of that foot piece anywhere near your man?
posted by NortonDC at 3:51 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by NortonDC at 3:51 PM on February 8, 2002
Peggy Noonan always had a way of sensing the sentiments of Americans. And, so did Reagan. I rather think that the voiced hatred and mockery made here and elsewhere of the two is driven by the disgust that that liberal elite have for the common man.
posted by Real9 at 3:59 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by Real9 at 3:59 PM on February 8, 2002
I rather think that the voiced hatred and mockery made here and elsewhere of the two is driven by the disgust that that liberal elite have for the common man.
i started to laugh when i read that, and then i realized, its true. Do i get a gold watch for my years of liberal elite service? i hope so.
so what is the score here...either reagan was a figurehead/dupe who didn't know what his employees were up to or he was incarnate evil? rock, say hello to hard place.
posted by th3ph17 at 4:10 PM on February 8, 2002
i started to laugh when i read that, and then i realized, its true. Do i get a gold watch for my years of liberal elite service? i hope so.
so what is the score here...either reagan was a figurehead/dupe who didn't know what his employees were up to or he was incarnate evil? rock, say hello to hard place.
posted by th3ph17 at 4:10 PM on February 8, 2002
Anybody remember that Phil Collins video with the puppets?
Land of Confusion was the title, I think.......
posted by bunnyfire at 4:12 PM on February 8, 2002
Land of Confusion was the title, I think.......
posted by bunnyfire at 4:12 PM on February 8, 2002
voiced hatred and mockery made here and elsewhere of the two is driven by the disgust that that liberal elite have for the common man.
Surely one can dislike Noonan's melodramatic prose entirely on its own merits. And need one scorn the common man to disagree with the Reagan administration's domestic and foreign policies?
posted by redfoxtail at 4:19 PM on February 8, 2002
Surely one can dislike Noonan's melodramatic prose entirely on its own merits. And need one scorn the common man to disagree with the Reagan administration's domestic and foreign policies?
posted by redfoxtail at 4:19 PM on February 8, 2002
Real9- HAHAHAHAAHAhahaha... haha... ha.... omigod... hahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... hahaha... ha...huh..
Maybe Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw, and Dan Rather are secretly posting to MeFi. I was under delusions that most of us were "the common man". Is there some "elite" paycheck I should be collecting or something?
posted by McBain at 4:21 PM on February 8, 2002
Maybe Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw, and Dan Rather are secretly posting to MeFi. I was under delusions that most of us were "the common man". Is there some "elite" paycheck I should be collecting or something?
posted by McBain at 4:21 PM on February 8, 2002
ah, mcbain, you missed the memo:
re: mefi status
Congratulations all you hard-working members of the liberal elite, we now completely dominate metafilter! it is a proud day. We are holding a small reception to celebrate at the usual place. Bring your own bike lock. Also, very exciting, Michael Moore is bringing his wife's famous rice crispy treats, so don't be late.
cheers,
ralph nader
posted by th3ph17 at 4:41 PM on February 8, 2002
re: mefi status
Congratulations all you hard-working members of the liberal elite, we now completely dominate metafilter! it is a proud day. We are holding a small reception to celebrate at the usual place. Bring your own bike lock. Also, very exciting, Michael Moore is bringing his wife's famous rice crispy treats, so don't be late.
cheers,
ralph nader
posted by th3ph17 at 4:41 PM on February 8, 2002
From Ms. Noonan's article: A small band of former aides and friends of Ronald Reagan were all over TV this week talking about the former president on his 91st birthday. Our memories and reflections were treated with thoughtfulness and respect by the media. It wasn't always this way but I'm glad it is now, and I think there are reasons for it.
She then goes on to name journalists' sympathy for Reagan's debilitated state as one of those reasons, which I'd agree with. And she observes, admittedly cynically, that every media outlet also wants to have an "in" with the Reagans when the former president passes away. Okay, that seems likely, too.
To be even more ruthlessly realistic, I'd say the most significant reason for the media's more reverential treatment of Reagan of late is due to the relatively meteoric rise of Fox News in the ratings. CNN, MSNBC and the broadcast networks have certainly noticed -- as have we, much to the surprise of many of us -- that serving up news with a conservative slant sells, baby.
It's all about the ratings.
posted by verdezza at 4:50 PM on February 8, 2002
She then goes on to name journalists' sympathy for Reagan's debilitated state as one of those reasons, which I'd agree with. And she observes, admittedly cynically, that every media outlet also wants to have an "in" with the Reagans when the former president passes away. Okay, that seems likely, too.
To be even more ruthlessly realistic, I'd say the most significant reason for the media's more reverential treatment of Reagan of late is due to the relatively meteoric rise of Fox News in the ratings. CNN, MSNBC and the broadcast networks have certainly noticed -- as have we, much to the surprise of many of us -- that serving up news with a conservative slant sells, baby.
It's all about the ratings.
posted by verdezza at 4:50 PM on February 8, 2002
"... Reagan (that anti-democratic bastard) represents a Christ figure to right-wingers like Noonan, because their politics has never been about mere dispute or disagreement of secular political policy. It's a holy war of Good and Righteousness versus the forces of Evil and Liberalism being fought on the battlefield of a democratic nation. It's no surprise that Reagan and his present-day acolytes often use such apocalyptic, End Times language, or that the the Christian Right merged with the Republican part- both have at their heart this Holy War mentality..."
At first I thought this was some of the sharpest, most subtle satire I'd read in a long, long time ... imagine accusing a group of people of something, and using precisely the same excited tone and frantic syntax that you are accusing them of having. Finshed off with a magnificent crescendo:
"...a schoolgirl longing for these mythic Hero figures ... who battle the evil of the Other, most recently KKKlinton the Seducer and Liar..."
... in which at the end of a post in which you've completely framed the group as an almost archtypal "Other", you make the final accusation that they are obsessed with battling "the Other".
Either you are a clever writer that is going to become one of the brightest new voices on the literary scene, or the mention of Noonan and Reagan makes you froth so thoroughly at the mouth that you've inadvertantly satirized yourself behind your own back. Either way, many thx ... greatly needed a belly laugh at the end of a hard week.
posted by MidasMulligan at 6:08 PM on February 8, 2002
At first I thought this was some of the sharpest, most subtle satire I'd read in a long, long time ... imagine accusing a group of people of something, and using precisely the same excited tone and frantic syntax that you are accusing them of having. Finshed off with a magnificent crescendo:
"...a schoolgirl longing for these mythic Hero figures ... who battle the evil of the Other, most recently KKKlinton the Seducer and Liar..."
... in which at the end of a post in which you've completely framed the group as an almost archtypal "Other", you make the final accusation that they are obsessed with battling "the Other".
Either you are a clever writer that is going to become one of the brightest new voices on the literary scene, or the mention of Noonan and Reagan makes you froth so thoroughly at the mouth that you've inadvertantly satirized yourself behind your own back. Either way, many thx ... greatly needed a belly laugh at the end of a hard week.
posted by MidasMulligan at 6:08 PM on February 8, 2002
I didn't like Ronald Reagan's politics and I believe he(or the people he surrounded himself with) did a lot of damage to this country. But, still I wouldn't wish Alzheimer's on my worst enemy. Going from "Bedtime for Bonzo" to the White House made for an interesting life and now the disease has robbed of looking back on it. Which still seems cruelly sad to me. But then I'm just a sentimental slob, I guess.
posted by jonmc at 7:01 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by jonmc at 7:01 PM on February 8, 2002
Either you are a clever writer that is going to become one of the brightest new voices on the literary scene
Thanks! I think I'm going to use that quote on the book jacket of my first novel. That, and a picture of me in a velvet red smoking jacket holding a pipe. With a golden retriever at my feet. Next to my old Remington typewriter...
or the mention of Noonan and Reagan makes you froth so thoroughly at the mouth that you've inadvertantly satirized yourself behind your own back.
There's a difference between my admittedly two-bit untrained pop- psychology analysis of the mentality of extremist right-wingers, and actually believing in your ideological opposites as some sort of a Manichean entity. While Noonan saddens me, I don't see her as a sinister evil and Ted Kennedy [for example] as a shining knight on a hill, nor do I long do cradle his feet. Big difference- I should hope you could see that.
Ya wanna know the difference? HBO was running the documentary "Soldiers in the Army of God" last night; you should look for it to air again, and I recommend a viewing if you want to see what I'm really talking about. These are some creepy mofos, yo...
posted by hincandenza at 7:19 PM on February 8, 2002
Thanks! I think I'm going to use that quote on the book jacket of my first novel. That, and a picture of me in a velvet red smoking jacket holding a pipe. With a golden retriever at my feet. Next to my old Remington typewriter...
or the mention of Noonan and Reagan makes you froth so thoroughly at the mouth that you've inadvertantly satirized yourself behind your own back.
There's a difference between my admittedly two-bit untrained pop- psychology analysis of the mentality of extremist right-wingers, and actually believing in your ideological opposites as some sort of a Manichean entity. While Noonan saddens me, I don't see her as a sinister evil and Ted Kennedy [for example] as a shining knight on a hill, nor do I long do cradle his feet. Big difference- I should hope you could see that.
Ya wanna know the difference? HBO was running the documentary "Soldiers in the Army of God" last night; you should look for it to air again, and I recommend a viewing if you want to see what I'm really talking about. These are some creepy mofos, yo...
posted by hincandenza at 7:19 PM on February 8, 2002
owillis: A man after mine own heart! That is one of my favorite SNL sketches ever, because it brilliantly played against the predominant stereotype.
That said, who can deny, today, that the Reagan commitment to outspend the Soviets led to their effective capitulation? In 1956, Hungary "chose" to break with the Warsaw Pact, and the USSR invaded. In 1990, East Germany did the same, and Moscow stood by.
posted by dhartung at 8:09 PM on February 8, 2002
That said, who can deny, today, that the Reagan commitment to outspend the Soviets led to their effective capitulation? In 1956, Hungary "chose" to break with the Warsaw Pact, and the USSR invaded. In 1990, East Germany did the same, and Moscow stood by.
posted by dhartung at 8:09 PM on February 8, 2002
And THAT, courtesy of dhartung, is why Reagan is considered a hero by so many people. Yes, that reason alone (although there are others) is sufficient to justify his place in history. More than any other individual, he brought down the USSR, the Berlin Wall, and at least gave some promise of a better life, with freedom & democracy, to tens of millions of people. Others were key, too, (Yeltsin, Baker, Bush, Gorby, Thatcher, etc), but Reagan stands front-and-center as the reason for the implosion of large-scale, state-sponsored socialist regimes. His accurate depiction of the USSR as an "evil empire" and his demand in Berlin to "...tear down this wall!" were a much-needed 180 degree reversal of decades of "containment" and appeasement. Despite the current dangers of terrorism and rogue nations, the world IS a safer, freer place now because of Ronald Reagan.
posted by davidmsc at 9:19 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by davidmsc at 9:19 PM on February 8, 2002
Who was the last 'great' president?
Carter! Carter! Carter!
posted by acridrabbit at 9:44 PM on February 8, 2002
Carter! Carter! Carter!
posted by acridrabbit at 9:44 PM on February 8, 2002
His accurate depiction of the USSR as an "evil empire"...Despite the current dangers of terrorism and rogue nations, the world IS a safer, freer place now because of Ronald Reagan.
Oh come on... You actually buy that bullshit? Besides, they're not "rogue nations" any more--since that rhetoric didn't test well in the heartland, they're an "axis of evil". (Y'see "axis" reminds all those vets about WWII and "evil" will make the christian right happy...) An "Axis of Evil", now that's something we can fight against. Gimme a break.
posted by jpoulos at 9:49 PM on February 8, 2002
Oh come on... You actually buy that bullshit? Besides, they're not "rogue nations" any more--since that rhetoric didn't test well in the heartland, they're an "axis of evil". (Y'see "axis" reminds all those vets about WWII and "evil" will make the christian right happy...) An "Axis of Evil", now that's something we can fight against. Gimme a break.
posted by jpoulos at 9:49 PM on February 8, 2002
Carter?
Jimmy Carter?
Jimmy "killer bunny lust in my heart national malaise not enough helicopters" Carter?
Just checking.
posted by ebarker at 10:10 PM on February 8, 2002
Jimmy Carter?
Jimmy "killer bunny lust in my heart national malaise not enough helicopters" Carter?
Just checking.
posted by ebarker at 10:10 PM on February 8, 2002
Speaking as one who has never been one of the "elite," I didn't like Reagan when he was President and nothing has changed my mind. I sympathize with him and his family because of his condition, but that doesn't redeem him in my eyes any more than The Axis of Evil (god, Presidential speechwriters, like their bosses, still suck!) validates the current Administration.
The last great President must have been before my time. I'd say maybe Thomas Jefferson (Sally Hemmings notwithstanding).
posted by StOne at 10:27 PM on February 8, 2002
The last great President must have been before my time. I'd say maybe Thomas Jefferson (Sally Hemmings notwithstanding).
posted by StOne at 10:27 PM on February 8, 2002
I love the "we bankrupted the USSR" argument.
"No really, it wasn't that we were giving massive taxpayer funded kickbacks to political supporters who happen to be in the weapons and aerospace industry. What we were really doing is strategically driving up the military budget to an insane level in order to goad Russian in to trying to match us. Good thing that now that there's no more Cold War we can cut back on military spending and use that money to address our neglected social infrastructure...um, hold that thought."
Never let it be said that liberals are the only political persuasion to engage in revisionist history.
posted by edlark at 11:54 PM on February 8, 2002
"No really, it wasn't that we were giving massive taxpayer funded kickbacks to political supporters who happen to be in the weapons and aerospace industry. What we were really doing is strategically driving up the military budget to an insane level in order to goad Russian in to trying to match us. Good thing that now that there's no more Cold War we can cut back on military spending and use that money to address our neglected social infrastructure...um, hold that thought."
Never let it be said that liberals are the only political persuasion to engage in revisionist history.
posted by edlark at 11:54 PM on February 8, 2002
As to who was the last "great" President: FDR (warts and all)
posted by edlark at 11:58 PM on February 8, 2002
posted by edlark at 11:58 PM on February 8, 2002
I love the "we bankrupted the USSR" argument.
Ah yes, this one is hilarious. The planned economies, with their factories producing goods no one wanted, the inherent economic problems with communism. None of that had anything to do with the USSR's demise.
After 20 years of watching American wealth on television, people got tired of waiting in line for fucking toilet paper.
posted by McBain at 1:25 AM on February 9, 2002
Ah yes, this one is hilarious. The planned economies, with their factories producing goods no one wanted, the inherent economic problems with communism. None of that had anything to do with the USSR's demise.
After 20 years of watching American wealth on television, people got tired of waiting in line for fucking toilet paper.
posted by McBain at 1:25 AM on February 9, 2002
Thank God I am old enough to remember his administration....by the time the historians get done with it I wonder if I will even recognise it.
posted by bunnyfire at 2:43 AM on February 9, 2002
posted by bunnyfire at 2:43 AM on February 9, 2002
As to who was the last "great" President: FDR (warts and all)
If betrayal, theft and murder and grift can be considered "great" maybe.
posted by thirteen at 9:50 AM on February 9, 2002
If betrayal, theft and murder and grift can be considered "great" maybe.
posted by thirteen at 9:50 AM on February 9, 2002
Sorry, dglynn, every time I hear "Harry S Truman" it reminds me that I'm a relative of his (four or five generations back, cousins or something).
Anyone related to me can only aspire to be "not bad". Great is out of the question. I'm hoping someday to reach the level of mediocre.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:54 PM on February 9, 2002
Anyone related to me can only aspire to be "not bad". Great is out of the question. I'm hoping someday to reach the level of mediocre.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:54 PM on February 9, 2002
I just want to add that my great great grandmother was Ronald Reagan's grade school teacher in Dixon, IL. Quoth the teacher, "little Ronnie was the dumbest boy I ever had."
posted by plinth at 7:59 AM on February 10, 2002
posted by plinth at 7:59 AM on February 10, 2002
Peggy Noonan always had a way of sensing the sentiments of Americans. And, so did Reagan. I rather think that the voiced hatred and mockery made here and elsewhere of the two is driven by the disgust that that liberal elite have for the common man.
It's true. You're not a real, genuine "common man" unless you have a foot fetish for Ronald Reagan. And that's why we liberal elites have such disgust for the common man.
posted by straight at 10:12 AM on February 11, 2002
It's true. You're not a real, genuine "common man" unless you have a foot fetish for Ronald Reagan. And that's why we liberal elites have such disgust for the common man.
posted by straight at 10:12 AM on February 11, 2002
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posted by umberto at 12:34 PM on February 8, 2002