Stockholm says no to Apple 'town square' in its oldest park
November 5, 2018 3:12 PM Subscribe
Plans for the company’s vast new ‘gathering place’ have been shelved after a backlash. But Apple is growing bolder in its designs on public space There were around 1,800 responses to the city’s consultation on the project. Almost all of them were negative. "This is very important for democracy because it has to do with power, symbolically and spatially."
Excuse me.
I just have a visceral reaction to that kind of complete marketing horseshit.
posted by darkstar at 3:23 PM on November 5, 2018 [26 favorites]
I just have a visceral reaction to that kind of complete marketing horseshit.
posted by darkstar at 3:23 PM on November 5, 2018 [26 favorites]
The mockups are pretty remarkable for how much they position the Apple store as the prime feature and focal point of what looks like a nice existing public space. Sounds like a pretty gross idea to me.
But.
The current building in that location is a TGI Friday's. To judge by the picture in the article, it's a hideous eyesore compared to the Apple store mockups.
posted by lostburner at 3:26 PM on November 5, 2018 [14 favorites]
But.
The current building in that location is a TGI Friday's. To judge by the picture in the article, it's a hideous eyesore compared to the Apple store mockups.
posted by lostburner at 3:26 PM on November 5, 2018 [14 favorites]
In DC, our oldest public library building is currently being converted into an Apple store. Engraved in large letters on a stone bench in front is "a university for the people".
Although not used by the DC Public Library since the early 70s, it has a long history of public and non-profit reuse. Our historical society, which occupies an upper floor, will thankfully be allowed to stay put. One positive outcome is that the HVAC and roof issues that the city has been ignoring for almost 20 years will, it appears, finally be fixed.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2018 [6 favorites]
Although not used by the DC Public Library since the early 70s, it has a long history of public and non-profit reuse. Our historical society, which occupies an upper floor, will thankfully be allowed to stay put. One positive outcome is that the HVAC and roof issues that the city has been ignoring for almost 20 years will, it appears, finally be fixed.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2018 [6 favorites]
Yeah, a big neon sign saying “American Bar & Grill” right in the center of the plaza doesn’t seem to convey the kind of harmonization between the Swedish monarchy, Swedish commerce, and Swedish people that they describe as being the goal.
posted by darkstar at 3:31 PM on November 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 3:31 PM on November 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
So, I went and got my keyboard fixed yesterday at Omaha's single Apple store. It is the worst experience. Actually the worst. The space is attractive--they clearly got good designers to put it together. But it works not at all for what they actually need it for. You show up with your incredibly expensive laptop and you get sent to go sit on a wooden crate in front of somebody trying to do a presentation on iOS photo editing that literally nobody is watching, like you're five and in the middle of a very poorly-controlled kindergarten class. This effect is not helped by the fact that the entire store is full of kids trying to get a turn to play on the tablets while their frazzled-looking parents try to get their phones fixed.
So, they invite the community into the space, but they're really only prepared for a community that includes a couple of well-behaved children and a bunch of young professionals who don't try to have conversations at above a whisper. They design for looking cool, not for how people actually use the space, especially not people who are not slim, fit, and cool. (I'm 37 and I find getting up from sitting on a low, armless crate to be... interesting. Imagine being sixty.) It is not, in fact, like a cafe, and I would not trust them to run a space that is supposed to be welcoming to everybody.
posted by Sequence at 3:35 PM on November 5, 2018 [32 favorites]
So, they invite the community into the space, but they're really only prepared for a community that includes a couple of well-behaved children and a bunch of young professionals who don't try to have conversations at above a whisper. They design for looking cool, not for how people actually use the space, especially not people who are not slim, fit, and cool. (I'm 37 and I find getting up from sitting on a low, armless crate to be... interesting. Imagine being sixty.) It is not, in fact, like a cafe, and I would not trust them to run a space that is supposed to be welcoming to everybody.
posted by Sequence at 3:35 PM on November 5, 2018 [32 favorites]
Yeah, Apple Stores suck. No signs, no one to greet you or tell you where to go to, like... pay... you’re left to wander around while several dozen harried employees flit from place to place without even looking at you. I had to get my iPhone screen replaced and it was 10 minutes of solid “excus— hi— where am supposed to—“ before someone told me that I was supposed to sit at a random table with other miserable-looking people and someone would be over, at some point, to “check me in” like I was at a doctor’s office.
Just awful. Good for Sweden.
posted by Automocar at 3:40 PM on November 5, 2018 [12 favorites]
Just awful. Good for Sweden.
posted by Automocar at 3:40 PM on November 5, 2018 [12 favorites]
Does Stockholm need to sell that space at all? What was there before that shitty restaurant?
posted by pracowity at 3:40 PM on November 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 3:40 PM on November 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
Sequence, you're totally right. Apple stores are the worst—the experience primarily consists of aimlessly loitering in an apparently random spot, waiting for someone to come find you. It's just totally disconnected and weird and I hate it. They have no sense of place or purpose whatsoever, it's the stupidest thing.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:41 PM on November 5, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:41 PM on November 5, 2018 [6 favorites]
That a shitty TGIF is better than an Apple store really says everything about this.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:44 PM on November 5, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:44 PM on November 5, 2018 [7 favorites]
Like, I don't want to spend time at a TGI Friday's either, but if I were going to take a family ranging from young children to grandparents to one of the two? The Apple store looks cooler but the TGI Friday's will probably actually give you coloring stuff for the kids and real chairs.
posted by Sequence at 3:44 PM on November 5, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 3:44 PM on November 5, 2018 [16 favorites]
A TGIF sells food you can eat at prices most everyone can afford. An Apple store is a luxury outpost catering to the wealthy and serving no real public service. The choice is clear.
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:56 PM on November 5, 2018 [26 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:56 PM on November 5, 2018 [26 favorites]
I have not eaten at that place in the park but I did ask them for some water when I needed to take some medicine and had no water left and the people who work there were super kind, filled up my bottle for me, and did not give me shit for not wanting to buy anything.
In real life the café does not look like that hideous rendering. Remember, that rendering is marketing. So does the café look fabulous? I wouldn’t go that far but it’s definitely an improvement over any of the Apple choices. It does not dominate the entire park, it’s just a not-overwhelming presence at the downtown end of the park. There are other, smaller cafés on one side of the park as well. They are conveniently invisible in the mock ups. Maybe that is because Apple owns that land; honestly I have no idea. The whole notion of turning that into a huge Apple Store is horrifying because basically it’s a corporate vampire trying to feed off an already existing, lively community area that does not need corporate help in any way to exist and thrive. I am so proud of Stockholm for saying no!
posted by Bella Donna at 4:20 PM on November 5, 2018 [17 favorites]
In real life the café does not look like that hideous rendering. Remember, that rendering is marketing. So does the café look fabulous? I wouldn’t go that far but it’s definitely an improvement over any of the Apple choices. It does not dominate the entire park, it’s just a not-overwhelming presence at the downtown end of the park. There are other, smaller cafés on one side of the park as well. They are conveniently invisible in the mock ups. Maybe that is because Apple owns that land; honestly I have no idea. The whole notion of turning that into a huge Apple Store is horrifying because basically it’s a corporate vampire trying to feed off an already existing, lively community area that does not need corporate help in any way to exist and thrive. I am so proud of Stockholm for saying no!
posted by Bella Donna at 4:20 PM on November 5, 2018 [17 favorites]
Apple owns the plot but that doesn't mean they can build any building. Zoning laws and Stockholm Beauty Council can decimate the plans of even the most powerful and monied interests, especially in a historically important public space like Kungsträdgården. All major political parties agree that the space should be serve the public in some capacity, some even suggesting that the city should buy back the plot and turn it into a truly free and public space.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:21 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:21 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Apple's corporate headquarters is "Apple Park." They brand themselves as a park. They also brand their corporate space as a "campus." They are neither. I suppose some Apple people must have been to Sweden, but they didn't learn much. Parks have been parks for a long time in Scandinavian cities. Apple is a powerful corporation, but they can't alter Sweden's public spaces. How tone-deaf!
Privatizing public parks in the USA would not be as tone-deaf, but it would be as tragic. Let's hope our few remaining public spaces remain places for the people.
posted by kozad at 4:42 PM on November 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
Privatizing public parks in the USA would not be as tone-deaf, but it would be as tragic. Let's hope our few remaining public spaces remain places for the people.
posted by kozad at 4:42 PM on November 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
Nice to know there’s still a chance of avoiding this in Melbourne. I’d thought it was a done deal.
Fed Square isn’t perfect, but turning more public space into retail isn’t going to improve it.
posted by pompomtom at 4:53 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Fed Square isn’t perfect, but turning more public space into retail isn’t going to improve it.
posted by pompomtom at 4:53 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
The current building in that location is a TGI Friday's
Typical American, totally ignorant of Theodor Gustaf Ingmar Friday’s contributions to Swedish culture.
posted by Sangermaine at 4:59 PM on November 5, 2018 [17 favorites]
Typical American, totally ignorant of Theodor Gustaf Ingmar Friday’s contributions to Swedish culture.
posted by Sangermaine at 4:59 PM on November 5, 2018 [17 favorites]
Apple is a powerful corporation, but they can't alter Sweden's public spaces.
By way of contrast, Melbourne rolls over and shows Apple its tummy.
posted by flabdablet at 5:12 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
By way of contrast, Melbourne rolls over and shows Apple its tummy.
posted by flabdablet at 5:12 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
“The atmosphere was really nice,” says Stefan Korpar, 30, who gave a rendition of a punk song from 1982 about demolishing “Stockholm’s heart”.
What song are they referencing here?
I hate the Apple store that’s in Portland. It’s right around the corner from Pioneer Square and across the street from the mall, but it’s such an annoying sight. It just screams “rich people” at the city, with armed guards standing around while houseless people find places to sleep.
I also really hate the use of this corporate doublespeak of calling these things “town squares”, or Apple Park, or their “campuses”. It feels manipulative and gross.
posted by gucci mane at 5:32 PM on November 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
What song are they referencing here?
I hate the Apple store that’s in Portland. It’s right around the corner from Pioneer Square and across the street from the mall, but it’s such an annoying sight. It just screams “rich people” at the city, with armed guards standing around while houseless people find places to sleep.
I also really hate the use of this corporate doublespeak of calling these things “town squares”, or Apple Park, or their “campuses”. It feels manipulative and gross.
posted by gucci mane at 5:32 PM on November 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
If you’re already hooked into the ecosystem then fuck off...
It's hard to disagree with this. My first experience with the Apple Store was 6 or 7 years ago, I had a Power Mac G5 in need of repair – A beautiful machine but heavy as hell and *not* easy to lug into your neighborhood mall.
Which is what I had to do when my G5's motherboard went belly up. The Apple "genius" was more used to dealing with iPhones with cracked screens than you know, a computer. I've been dealing with Macs since 1984 (not a typo) and I could sense his flop sweat immediately, after doing a cursory test, he stated that the system was a lost cause and unfortunately the only solution was to buy a new computer.
"Really?" I said. "Is there someone else I can talk to, because I feel like there's more you could be doing to diagnose the problem".
That did not go over well. Long story short: I lucked out and because I had purchased the system with AMEX, my warranty was doubled, so the cost of repair was covered. But then and there I swore never to go back into an Apple store unless absolutely necessary.
posted by jeremias at 6:01 PM on November 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's hard to disagree with this. My first experience with the Apple Store was 6 or 7 years ago, I had a Power Mac G5 in need of repair – A beautiful machine but heavy as hell and *not* easy to lug into your neighborhood mall.
Which is what I had to do when my G5's motherboard went belly up. The Apple "genius" was more used to dealing with iPhones with cracked screens than you know, a computer. I've been dealing with Macs since 1984 (not a typo) and I could sense his flop sweat immediately, after doing a cursory test, he stated that the system was a lost cause and unfortunately the only solution was to buy a new computer.
"Really?" I said. "Is there someone else I can talk to, because I feel like there's more you could be doing to diagnose the problem".
That did not go over well. Long story short: I lucked out and because I had purchased the system with AMEX, my warranty was doubled, so the cost of repair was covered. But then and there I swore never to go back into an Apple store unless absolutely necessary.
posted by jeremias at 6:01 PM on November 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
gucci mane: Certainly Heroinister & Kontorister by Ebba Grön
posted by Simon! at 6:27 PM on November 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Simon! at 6:27 PM on November 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
I met my partner of 10 years at a TGI Fridays. It's a perfectly cromulent restaurant.
posted by hwyengr at 6:30 PM on November 5, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by hwyengr at 6:30 PM on November 5, 2018 [6 favorites]
Ugh, fuck Apple for their efforts to essentially brand and privatize public space. I find it incredibly gross and disturbing, especially since they can't manage the space in their stores for shit. They didn't come up with "campus" for office buildings though, that terminology has been around since at least the 80's.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:24 PM on November 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 7:24 PM on November 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
An HR email referred to my workplace as a "campus" a few weeks ago. It's a 70-year-old tractor factory.
posted by TrialByMedia at 7:35 PM on November 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by TrialByMedia at 7:35 PM on November 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
Welp, looks like the Apple haters showed up right on schedule. This article is perfectly geared toward them, with its tut-tutting about the dreaded corporate monster reaching its tentacles toward Stockholm's sacred public spaces... until two-thirds of the way through when we find out that a TGIF, of all the fucking things, is already there. You remember Friday's? The place that got sent up as "Tchotchke's" in Office Space? Yeah, super classy use of your civic space there, Sweden. "Unprepossessing" with all the red neon, you betcha. Ugh.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:13 PM on November 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:13 PM on November 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
Welp, looks like the Apple haters showed up right on schedule.
See, this is what shits me about this debate. As a Melbournian I'm utterly disgusted that the city council and state government has rolled over and given Apple a green light to it's store in our Federation square, and pulling down the Koori Heritage Trust building into the bargain. But criticise Apple and we're "haters" - like we've committed some fucking vast heresy against your choice of device. Fed square has bars and restaurants too, they aren't called TGI Fridays, but they are meeting places. An apple store is not a meeting place, its'a storefront of giant fucking corporation appropriating public place to burrow itself further into our culture.
posted by mattoxic at 9:26 PM on November 5, 2018 [20 favorites]
See, this is what shits me about this debate. As a Melbournian I'm utterly disgusted that the city council and state government has rolled over and given Apple a green light to it's store in our Federation square, and pulling down the Koori Heritage Trust building into the bargain. But criticise Apple and we're "haters" - like we've committed some fucking vast heresy against your choice of device. Fed square has bars and restaurants too, they aren't called TGI Fridays, but they are meeting places. An apple store is not a meeting place, its'a storefront of giant fucking corporation appropriating public place to burrow itself further into our culture.
posted by mattoxic at 9:26 PM on November 5, 2018 [20 favorites]
They also brand their corporate space as a "campus."
This is kind of the default in tech, and has been for some time. Apple's campus fits the dictionary definition of a campus. Look, I hate on them as much as the next guy (and their stores), but the word campus isn't inappropriate.
posted by el io at 10:15 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is kind of the default in tech, and has been for some time. Apple's campus fits the dictionary definition of a campus. Look, I hate on them as much as the next guy (and their stores), but the word campus isn't inappropriate.
posted by el io at 10:15 PM on November 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
The whole process for how this played out stinks. The development rights were sold to Apple by the Stockholm Chamber of Commerce, which is a political organization in itself. The original renderings were not presented as a proposal but what would actually be built. And Apple was given a sweetheart deal on exhibition space at nearby Kulturhuset to sell the plans to the public. Meanwhile city politicians acted like their hands were tied. The TGIF is lame, but serves at least an important park function as a food establishment.
posted by St. Oops at 10:43 PM on November 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Oops at 10:43 PM on November 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
city politicians acted like their hands were tied
That's been the general vibe in Melbourne as well.
posted by flabdablet at 12:59 AM on November 6, 2018
That's been the general vibe in Melbourne as well.
posted by flabdablet at 12:59 AM on November 6, 2018
Halloween Jack, I am writing this on an iPad. I was a contractor for Apple and have used Apple products and preferred them basically my entire life. I am far from an Apple hater. Feel free to sneer but you are using a too-broad brush. I live in this city, I know what the current café looks like, and I promise you that the suggested replacements are not an improvement. I don’t think the existing café is sacred, and I’m down for having it replaced. But it should be replaced by something that will enhance the public area rather than eclipse or attempt to cannibalize it.
(Since we are talking about Stockholm, will note that there is a local meetup in the works. Please come if you are in the area.)
posted by Bella Donna at 3:11 AM on November 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
(Since we are talking about Stockholm, will note that there is a local meetup in the works. Please come if you are in the area.)
posted by Bella Donna at 3:11 AM on November 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
And I have no real problem with the general idea that there might be a better use of this particular public space, in Stockholm or Melbourne or anywhere, really. I'm sure that Apple can find somewhere else to put a store; the last time I went to one, in Chicago, I skipped the big new one downtown to hit the one that was closest to an El stop and it was just fine. And the Melbourne situation seems a little bit disturbing; did the Koori Heritage Trust relocate, or what? But my criticism of the FPP--and the reaction to it--stands.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:59 AM on November 6, 2018
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:59 AM on November 6, 2018
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posted by infini at 5:35 AM on November 6, 2018
You remember Friday's? The place that got sent up as "Tchotchke's" in Office Space? Yeah, super classy use of your civic space there, Sweden.
That is a severely classist statement.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:25 AM on November 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
That is a severely classist statement.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:25 AM on November 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
I poked around Google Maps looking at the TGI Fridays from different angles, and it's not terrible! I mean it's not as classy as some of those older buildings lining the park, but it's not an eyesore, the building is low-profile, and it's got a nice covered patio facing the park which gives it much more of a cafe/street life feel than a brick wall would. Sure the neon is less-than-thrilling, but I'm sure "hey could we make the sign on the park side something classy and art-deco-looking?" would be doable if you super-hate neon.
I expected it to be a real eyesore, but it's really not bad and it suits the space and doesn't try to do anything but be an architecturally humble and utilitarian restaurant with a low visual profile ... it's not trying to make an architectural statement among much older, grander buildings, it's just there to Do Food, and the patio front adds to the living streetscape of the park instead of detracting.
Anyway, miles better than the proposed Apple store which is very architecturally LOOOOOOOK AT MEEEEEEEEE while adding nothing to the park's amenities or public spaces and detracting from the grand buildings that would surround it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:38 AM on November 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
I expected it to be a real eyesore, but it's really not bad and it suits the space and doesn't try to do anything but be an architecturally humble and utilitarian restaurant with a low visual profile ... it's not trying to make an architectural statement among much older, grander buildings, it's just there to Do Food, and the patio front adds to the living streetscape of the park instead of detracting.
Anyway, miles better than the proposed Apple store which is very architecturally LOOOOOOOK AT MEEEEEEEEE while adding nothing to the park's amenities or public spaces and detracting from the grand buildings that would surround it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:38 AM on November 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
the Melbourne situation seems a little bit disturbing; did the Koorie Heritage Trust relocate, or what?
Still in place for the time being. Apple's bland corporate monstrosity is not up yet.
Another, somewhat larger premises also in Fed Square has been promised to the Trust once the building it's currently in is demolished, but it would not surprise me in the slightest to see the gubbas quietly renege on that promise.
posted by flabdablet at 7:24 AM on November 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Still in place for the time being. Apple's bland corporate monstrosity is not up yet.
Another, somewhat larger premises also in Fed Square has been promised to the Trust once the building it's currently in is demolished, but it would not surprise me in the slightest to see the gubbas quietly renege on that promise.
posted by flabdablet at 7:24 AM on November 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Apple is a powerful corporation, but they can't alter Sweden's public spaces.
Most of the people in that square right now are looking down at their phones or impatiently wishing they were.
posted by pracowity at 8:51 AM on November 6, 2018
Most of the people in that square right now are looking down at their phones or impatiently wishing they were.
posted by pracowity at 8:51 AM on November 6, 2018
(Since we are talking about Stockholm, will note that there is a local meetup in the works. Please come if you are in the area.)
Highly unlikely, but I'd love to. That is a really interesting restaurant.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:38 AM on November 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Highly unlikely, but I'd love to. That is a really interesting restaurant.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:38 AM on November 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
I would like to take this opportunity to say that I've been to Stockholm twice.
Thank you.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:59 PM on November 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
Thank you.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:59 PM on November 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
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BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRFFFF!!!
posted by darkstar at 3:20 PM on November 5, 2018 [72 favorites]