ACG, FPD, BTC, FBI, WTF
October 20, 2023 3:55 PM Subscribe
Across Discord servers and Telegram group chats, potentially thousands of people participate in what is loosely known as Comm, a nebulous network of hackers, gamers, and young girls who are sometimes targeted by other participants. ACG became the hot new group among the constant ream of chats inside Comm. Others wanted to join the outfit so much that some even pretended to be members to boast to their Telegram contacts. People wondered who this group ACG was, and where they came from. from From High Life Hackers to National Menace: The Rise and Fall of Digital Bandits 'ACG' [CW: abuse, misogyny, harm, crypto]
After reading: I'd put a whole lot of quatloos on our villain protagonist getting to continue his awful rampage because Young Cleancut White Dude.
This... does not impress me.
posted by humbug at 5:22 PM on October 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
This... does not impress me.
posted by humbug at 5:22 PM on October 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
Well that is some horrible shit...
The kids these days
posted by Windopaene at 5:27 PM on October 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
The kids these days
posted by Windopaene at 5:27 PM on October 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
A reiteration of the old carding crews, but in the era of crypto and weaponized social media.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:24 PM on October 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:24 PM on October 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
holy crap
posted by suelac at 7:44 PM on October 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by suelac at 7:44 PM on October 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
a nebulous network of hackers, gamers, and young girls
I do not understand, from the linked article, how the “young girls” come into it. This phrasing makes it sound like they are a separate category from “hackers” and “gamers”. But also that these Discord and Telegram servers are basically like What If 4Chan Was A Criminal Gang Not Just On the Internet. I get where the misogyny is coming from (it’s unfortunately widespread), but how many non-hacker or -gamer girls are on these servers, and/or why is the assumption that they aren’t also interested in participating in the criming and getting their own cut? The article makes it sound almost like a trafficking ring with the girls as victims. Which certainly could also be a factor, but then there’s a huge part of the overall criminal enterprise that’s missing from the story told in the article, if so. For comparison: more traditional street gangs and organized crime also have women members even though participation can entail a lot of sexual violence. Sometimes they are not willing participants, in which there are specific actions by specific gang members responsible - eg. some motorcycle gangs here in Canada have long been involved in running strip clubs and brothels and often use various violent or coercive means to obtain women’s labor for these. Sometimes women are willing participants in street gangs, but then they’re also getting something out of it, like the same sort of sense of belonging, protection from other threats, and economic benefits that male members get out of gang membership in the case of some neighborhood- and ethnicity-bass street gangs that I’ve seen accounts of. In those cases, while the female members are victimized on one level, ignoring the full story and removing their agency doesn’t really help them - it instead leads to saviour narratives that just as often put women in more danger or leave them in worse, more economically marginal circumstances (see: everything wrong with FOSTA/SESTA).
This is the most glaring area to me, but there’s a lot of detail that the article seems to be missing or glossing over in favor of making the narrative as lurid as possible, and a lot of stereotypes (eg. also the false expectation of a strict distinction between online and offline behavior) it seems to be relying on for that purpose in lieu of more detailed reporting.
posted by eviemath at 9:18 PM on October 20, 2023 [15 favorites]
I do not understand, from the linked article, how the “young girls” come into it. This phrasing makes it sound like they are a separate category from “hackers” and “gamers”. But also that these Discord and Telegram servers are basically like What If 4Chan Was A Criminal Gang Not Just On the Internet. I get where the misogyny is coming from (it’s unfortunately widespread), but how many non-hacker or -gamer girls are on these servers, and/or why is the assumption that they aren’t also interested in participating in the criming and getting their own cut? The article makes it sound almost like a trafficking ring with the girls as victims. Which certainly could also be a factor, but then there’s a huge part of the overall criminal enterprise that’s missing from the story told in the article, if so. For comparison: more traditional street gangs and organized crime also have women members even though participation can entail a lot of sexual violence. Sometimes they are not willing participants, in which there are specific actions by specific gang members responsible - eg. some motorcycle gangs here in Canada have long been involved in running strip clubs and brothels and often use various violent or coercive means to obtain women’s labor for these. Sometimes women are willing participants in street gangs, but then they’re also getting something out of it, like the same sort of sense of belonging, protection from other threats, and economic benefits that male members get out of gang membership in the case of some neighborhood- and ethnicity-bass street gangs that I’ve seen accounts of. In those cases, while the female members are victimized on one level, ignoring the full story and removing their agency doesn’t really help them - it instead leads to saviour narratives that just as often put women in more danger or leave them in worse, more economically marginal circumstances (see: everything wrong with FOSTA/SESTA).
This is the most glaring area to me, but there’s a lot of detail that the article seems to be missing or glossing over in favor of making the narrative as lurid as possible, and a lot of stereotypes (eg. also the false expectation of a strict distinction between online and offline behavior) it seems to be relying on for that purpose in lieu of more detailed reporting.
posted by eviemath at 9:18 PM on October 20, 2023 [15 favorites]
Right, also it seems like there are probably a few sophisticated criminals like ACG's leaders, exe and awpy, who are using a bunch of dipshits (Williams) to do the risky parts of the crime while they take the majority of the spoils. My guess is that the reason Williams was so easily caught is because the people in charge never gave a shit about him and just used him as a disposable way to get 2fa codes, and because of that never bothered to even clue him in about covering his tracks or anything.
Not to say that Williams is a blameless victim, he is obviously a real piece of shit, but I think there is more at play than him being some criminal mastermind.
posted by Literaryhero at 10:56 PM on October 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
Not to say that Williams is a blameless victim, he is obviously a real piece of shit, but I think there is more at play than him being some criminal mastermind.
posted by Literaryhero at 10:56 PM on October 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's not the biggest thing wrong with them, but the way these rich white kids appropriate African-American Vernacular English really pisses me off.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:26 AM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 3:26 AM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
Like, was “Rebecca” in one of these Comm chats/servers, or did Williams meet her some other way? The article says,
Although there is no public evidence this is what happened with Rebecca and Williams, the overriding context of many relationships inside Comm is that of members trying to control and threaten girls.
Two paragraphs down in links an FBI bulletin that is a bit more clear, and indicates that the groups that focus on abusing girls seek out their victims on various platforms, but that the groups have their own private forums where they organize and brag and egg each other on. None of what is described in the article seems to be about either “relationships” in any mutual sense or involve victims who are “inside” the supposed Comm circles, based on the information provided.
posted by eviemath at 4:45 AM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Although there is no public evidence this is what happened with Rebecca and Williams, the overriding context of many relationships inside Comm is that of members trying to control and threaten girls.
Two paragraphs down in links an FBI bulletin that is a bit more clear, and indicates that the groups that focus on abusing girls seek out their victims on various platforms, but that the groups have their own private forums where they organize and brag and egg each other on. None of what is described in the article seems to be about either “relationships” in any mutual sense or involve victims who are “inside” the supposed Comm circles, based on the information provided.
posted by eviemath at 4:45 AM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Maybe if we just declare a Purge online and legalize bitcoin theft for the duration, we can bust the whole bubble once and for all and get this shit over with?
posted by ocschwar at 6:30 AM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 6:30 AM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Maybe it’s the old in me talking, but I still can’t get past the repeated use of “hacker” in the piece as shorthand for digital criminal instead of the broader MIT/2600 use of the term as an innovator or explorer.
posted by dr_dank at 8:06 AM on October 21, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 8:06 AM on October 21, 2023 [9 favorites]
Maybe if we just declare a Purge online and legalize bitcoin theft for the duration
That can’t be all that far from the de facto reality anyway.
posted by atoxyl at 10:38 AM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
That can’t be all that far from the de facto reality anyway.
posted by atoxyl at 10:38 AM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Maybe it’s the old in me talking, but I still can’t get past the repeated use of “hacker” in the piece as shorthand for digital criminal instead of the broader MIT/2600 use of the term as an innovator or explorer.
Right?? I still have this sense that being a hacker should entail at least some knowledge of or something to do with programming.
posted by eviemath at 2:45 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Right?? I still have this sense that being a hacker should entail at least some knowledge of or something to do with programming.
posted by eviemath at 2:45 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
[CW: abuse, misogyny, harm, crypto]
I appreciate (and am amused by) the content warning for crypto.
posted by dcormier at 8:29 AM on October 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I appreciate (and am amused by) the content warning for crypto.
posted by dcormier at 8:29 AM on October 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
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I hate that I have to read it.
posted by humbug at 4:36 PM on October 20, 2023 [3 favorites]