The joy is in the playing
January 4, 2024 7:57 AM Subscribe
Learning To Play Piano When There Is No Recital. There are lots of reasons to continue or start a hobby even if you cannot become good enough to make it your full-time job. But even as I write that, I don’t really believe it deep down. I believe it for you. I think it’s a great idea for everyone else to do things that bring them joy and have no other benefits. But not for me.
Thanks for sharing this! It was a fun and heart lifting read!
posted by kmartino at 9:10 AM on January 4
posted by kmartino at 9:10 AM on January 4
This article is absolutely fantastic. Even in my chosen career I'm no virtuoso, but I love it so much I made peace long ago with doing something at which I'm far from tops, and I think in retrospect that's been a great advantage to allow me to overcome some of the traps the author mentions. But there are definitely people in my life who I think would benefit from giving themselves permission to fail as part of exploration, play, and recovering their natural exuberance, and I am excited to share this with them.
posted by It is regrettable that at 9:21 AM on January 4 [4 favorites]
posted by It is regrettable that at 9:21 AM on January 4 [4 favorites]
Great essay and very much on-point for me.
Imagine, I thought, how good I could become at playing the piano
This has been my cardinal sin. Unrealistic expectations and NOT THE POINT of taking up creative activities. You can hope that a creative activity makes you a better person somehow, and starting something new always requires a bit of effort and pushing through some initial resistance to get going... but if the activity itself doesn't bring you pleasure, and you don't look forward to the next time you get to do the activity... what's the point? It's then just another "self-improvement" chore like gym membership, or kale.
In the past year I've been trying to give myself permission to just do/make stuff, but free of any benchmarks or goals, other than happy hours, and something I look forward to. So far, so good.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:21 AM on January 4 [9 favorites]
Imagine, I thought, how good I could become at playing the piano
This has been my cardinal sin. Unrealistic expectations and NOT THE POINT of taking up creative activities. You can hope that a creative activity makes you a better person somehow, and starting something new always requires a bit of effort and pushing through some initial resistance to get going... but if the activity itself doesn't bring you pleasure, and you don't look forward to the next time you get to do the activity... what's the point? It's then just another "self-improvement" chore like gym membership, or kale.
In the past year I've been trying to give myself permission to just do/make stuff, but free of any benchmarks or goals, other than happy hours, and something I look forward to. So far, so good.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:21 AM on January 4 [9 favorites]
I love this article so much. I played piano until I was around 16, and then quit like many others. I decided I wanted to be a rockstar and got my parents to buy me an electric guitar. I used the internet and taught myself basic chords and tried on and off as I grew older, but plateaued pretty hard and gave up on that too.
When I was 37 I decided that I didn't want to let down my teenage self and enrolled in guitar lessons. You are some of the only people who know this, most of my friends don't even know I've been playing. I also have terrible performance anxiety (something I learned during the piano years; not exactly the quality of a rock star) so I just play for myself, my instructor and my dog, and my partner listens in from the other room.
It's been three years now and it's the best thing I've ever done. It fills me with so much joy to be able to pick up my guitar and actually play it. I've learned how much I love classical guitar, which was never on my radar at all, and I eagerly practice every day after work. Sometimes I rock out too, which I can do now with far more finesse. I love having this private, beautiful hobby just for me.
posted by thebots at 9:40 AM on January 4 [42 favorites]
When I was 37 I decided that I didn't want to let down my teenage self and enrolled in guitar lessons. You are some of the only people who know this, most of my friends don't even know I've been playing. I also have terrible performance anxiety (something I learned during the piano years; not exactly the quality of a rock star) so I just play for myself, my instructor and my dog, and my partner listens in from the other room.
It's been three years now and it's the best thing I've ever done. It fills me with so much joy to be able to pick up my guitar and actually play it. I've learned how much I love classical guitar, which was never on my radar at all, and I eagerly practice every day after work. Sometimes I rock out too, which I can do now with far more finesse. I love having this private, beautiful hobby just for me.
posted by thebots at 9:40 AM on January 4 [42 favorites]
When I was in junior high, I was talking to my music teacher, a guy who was filling in for our regular teacher who had fallen ill, and I mentioned that I - a 13-year-old - had aspirations to go to Julliard for piano. He asked me what I was currently playing, and I mentioned minuets. He scoffed and said, if I wasn't already playing fugues, that there was no way I was getting into Julliard or Eastman or any of the good music schools. I was 13.
That had an absolutely catastrophic impact on my self-confidence and opinion of myself as a musician, and as a result I thought of myself henceforth as "not that great of a pianist" and avoided any college that required a piano audition for music majors, even if that major wasn't piano performance.
As an adult I have mostly overcome this, and played keyboards professionally for multiple artists. And, having met lots of extremely talented pianists, I may well not have gotten into Julliard, had I applied, even if that teacher hadn't told me that I wouldn't. But it was a Bad Thing to say to a kid, and he is on my permanent shit list.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:41 AM on January 4 [24 favorites]
That had an absolutely catastrophic impact on my self-confidence and opinion of myself as a musician, and as a result I thought of myself henceforth as "not that great of a pianist" and avoided any college that required a piano audition for music majors, even if that major wasn't piano performance.
As an adult I have mostly overcome this, and played keyboards professionally for multiple artists. And, having met lots of extremely talented pianists, I may well not have gotten into Julliard, had I applied, even if that teacher hadn't told me that I wouldn't. But it was a Bad Thing to say to a kid, and he is on my permanent shit list.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:41 AM on January 4 [24 favorites]
it was a Bad Thing to say to a kid
For sure. I guess the Right Thing to Say in your example would have been: "Julliard, huh? Yes keep preparing; have you tackled any fugues?" Basically, offering encouragement and practical advice, even if you're pretty sure the person likely won't make their goal. Cos you never know...
posted by Artful Codger at 9:58 AM on January 4 [5 favorites]
For sure. I guess the Right Thing to Say in your example would have been: "Julliard, huh? Yes keep preparing; have you tackled any fugues?" Basically, offering encouragement and practical advice, even if you're pretty sure the person likely won't make their goal. Cos you never know...
posted by Artful Codger at 9:58 AM on January 4 [5 favorites]
This is what piano meetups are for - a healthy and low-pressure medium point between playing only for people who live with/visit you, and playing an entire recital. The meetups I go to typically meet once a month have 20-40 attendees (mostly regulars), 10-20 of them performing something at a range of skill levels (with a budget of around 7 minutes each), and a positive social atmosphere which encourages you no matter how many mistakes you make.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 9:58 AM on January 4 [3 favorites]
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 9:58 AM on January 4 [3 favorites]
I have a friend that is teaching herself to play the piano right now using an app of some kind that basically acts like the Rockband video game and listens in as she practices and provides feedback, but with more science and game theory backed up by video-game like dopamine hits.
And apparently it works. Because it's been really cool to hear her going from hunting and pecking keys and doing basic scales to being able to chord and being able to play some songs in the space of a few months.
I'm sure it's really awkward feeling to be learning in a house that's often full of people but I think it's great, and I know she knows how to embrace feeling awkward and how to go for it anyway.
I've also made a point to express that not only do I definitely do not think it's awkward or bad to hear in the house, but I actively like hearing it and I don't care if she wants to play and practice any time of the day or night even if it's 3 AM.
I can barely hear it in my room anyway, and even when it's awkward or "bad" it just sounds or feels like wind chimes or something. It might help me personally that I'm a fan of weird experimental music but everything about it is a joyous noise to me.
posted by loquacious at 10:00 AM on January 4 [8 favorites]
And apparently it works. Because it's been really cool to hear her going from hunting and pecking keys and doing basic scales to being able to chord and being able to play some songs in the space of a few months.
I'm sure it's really awkward feeling to be learning in a house that's often full of people but I think it's great, and I know she knows how to embrace feeling awkward and how to go for it anyway.
I've also made a point to express that not only do I definitely do not think it's awkward or bad to hear in the house, but I actively like hearing it and I don't care if she wants to play and practice any time of the day or night even if it's 3 AM.
I can barely hear it in my room anyway, and even when it's awkward or "bad" it just sounds or feels like wind chimes or something. It might help me personally that I'm a fan of weird experimental music but everything about it is a joyous noise to me.
posted by loquacious at 10:00 AM on January 4 [8 favorites]
(Another fun approach is streaming practice/sightreading requests on twitch and chatting to viewers in between pieces. The amount of pressure/positivity involved in that is a lot more difficult to control, though - anywhere from vicarious joy at your rate of improvement or sycophantic praise of your talent to driveby negging and requests to sightread Liszt Etudes)
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 10:10 AM on January 4 [2 favorites]
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 10:10 AM on January 4 [2 favorites]
Anyway what I'm saying is, comfort with others hearing one's music performance is not a fixed quantity set by one's level of nerves at an exam, but a skill that can be slowly and gently developed if one wishes. And music performances one is comfortable with others hearing do not require a minimum duration and frequency of display, but can be slowly and gently developed from zero minutes never up to hours every day, if it makes one happy.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 10:22 AM on January 4 [3 favorites]
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 10:22 AM on January 4 [3 favorites]
Here is what I always want to tell people who are just starting to learn an instrument: Go forth and make noise! Don't worry about the quality of that noise at first, just go make noise. Pretty quickly you will figure out how to make noises that are loud or quiet, or fast or slow. If you have a teacher, they will help you learn how to read musical notation and how to play musical scales. If you don't have a teacher, you can learn these techniques on your own via YouTube, Apps, or even by checking out books from your local library.
Most importantly, never forget:
When I was a kid, I drove my parents crazy because I would sit at the piano for hours on end, just trying different notes and chords and combinations of things...sometimes I would practice but more often I would just "jam" with myself. They got so fed up with the noise that they traded our rickety old church piano in and got an electric piano so I could practice with headphones on instead (it didn't help, they could still hear my thump-thump-thumping on the keybed).
That's how I knew it was the hobby for me. No matter how much flack I got for playing my piano, I was never deterred. I've felt this way since I was eight years old, and it has never changed for me.
Also, I really mostly play for myself. I am a confident performer and have no problem playing in front of others...I just don't care about that aspect as much as I care about the playing of the music and my personal connection to it. In other words, it doesn't really matter (to me) if people are listening or if they think what I'm playing is good or not, because I'm not playing for them, I'm playing for me.
There's just so much judgment wrapped up in music making that I find nearly everyone is self-conscious about it. Even professionals can still get stage fright. In my experience, all opinions about musical performance are ultimately subjective, so we are always free to leave such feedback unheeded.
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:23 AM on January 4 [15 favorites]
Most importantly, never forget:
1. All music was created by humans who are just like you. They are not any more special than you. You can make your own music too.
2. You have to be bad at something before you can be good at it. "Natural Talent" is a damaging idea that barely even makes sense, if you really stop to think about it. People who are good at something, it's because they practice a LOT. They probably practice way more than you even realize, so don't stress that.
When I was a kid, I drove my parents crazy because I would sit at the piano for hours on end, just trying different notes and chords and combinations of things...sometimes I would practice but more often I would just "jam" with myself. They got so fed up with the noise that they traded our rickety old church piano in and got an electric piano so I could practice with headphones on instead (it didn't help, they could still hear my thump-thump-thumping on the keybed).
That's how I knew it was the hobby for me. No matter how much flack I got for playing my piano, I was never deterred. I've felt this way since I was eight years old, and it has never changed for me.
Also, I really mostly play for myself. I am a confident performer and have no problem playing in front of others...I just don't care about that aspect as much as I care about the playing of the music and my personal connection to it. In other words, it doesn't really matter (to me) if people are listening or if they think what I'm playing is good or not, because I'm not playing for them, I'm playing for me.
There's just so much judgment wrapped up in music making that I find nearly everyone is self-conscious about it. Even professionals can still get stage fright. In my experience, all opinions about musical performance are ultimately subjective, so we are always free to leave such feedback unheeded.
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:23 AM on January 4 [15 favorites]
For sure. I guess the Right Thing to Say in your example would have been: "Julliard, huh? Yes keep preparing; have you tackled any fugues?" Basically, offering encouragement and practical advice, even if you're pretty sure the person likely won't make their goal. Cos you never know...As a teacher myself, I do wonder sometimes what to say to a student whose ambitions are out of line with their current trajectories—scoffing at their ambitions does no-one any good, except perhaps briefly to gratify a teacher's vanity by a small act of cruelty, but neither does blithely pretending that the current approach is likely to work. What I have settled on for myself is quite a bit like what Artful Codger said—wish them success, while tactfully (but, if necessary (e.g., if you are in an advisory role), insistently) sharing what they will need to do to increase their chances of success. This is well worth it not just because, of course, avoiding cruelty is always worth it, but also because "you never know" is right—any teacher who thinks that they can identify when a student isn't going to succeed, and they're always right, is less a far-sighted prophet than a self-fulfilling prophet. I have never felt like a better teacher than when I've helped a student to channel their willingness to work hard towards achieving a success that had previously looked unreachable.
posted by It is regrettable that at 10:23 AM on January 4 [10 favorites]
As a musician and music professor right at 30 years of professional practice, I just want to ditto Doleful Creature's entire comment. The FPP essay is terrific.
I love having this private, beautiful hobby just for me.
This is the first thing that music-making should be about, IMHO. We're a bit over a century into widespread recording and broadcast technologies, and those have made most of us into music consumers with unreasonable professional standards that keep us from making our own imperfect, fun, clever, dumb, joyful music ourselves, for ourselves. And making music, as a verb, is the most valuable aspect of musical culture, in terms of human development and experience.
(I remain kind of surprised that we managed to make music-making--the most fleeting, least permanent of creative media--so fraught with standards and judgment, simply by figuring out how to capture it for later, displaced listening. I mean, absent recording technology, actual music isn't even as permanent as sand or ice sculptures--music only literally exists in the air as long as the energy of the vibrations is still propagating. Once that energy calms, the sound stops and there is no more music, because music is intrinsically a verb. At least sand sculptures exist until the tide comes in. But then we captured lightning in a bottle, figured out how to turn sound into signal and, subsequently, information, so music--for the first time in all of human history--became a noun, an actual thing, that could be captured and preserved and shared and altered and etc., and that's amazing but it's made us all so self-conscious about music, musical tastes, and definitely about our own, individual, innate musicianship and expressive musical ability. And created this whole garbage stream in education that thinks only listening to music is enough of a creative experience for kids (cheaper and more scalable, too) that we're just starting to find our way out of. Anyway, good post.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:46 AM on January 4 [24 favorites]
I love having this private, beautiful hobby just for me.
This is the first thing that music-making should be about, IMHO. We're a bit over a century into widespread recording and broadcast technologies, and those have made most of us into music consumers with unreasonable professional standards that keep us from making our own imperfect, fun, clever, dumb, joyful music ourselves, for ourselves. And making music, as a verb, is the most valuable aspect of musical culture, in terms of human development and experience.
(I remain kind of surprised that we managed to make music-making--the most fleeting, least permanent of creative media--so fraught with standards and judgment, simply by figuring out how to capture it for later, displaced listening. I mean, absent recording technology, actual music isn't even as permanent as sand or ice sculptures--music only literally exists in the air as long as the energy of the vibrations is still propagating. Once that energy calms, the sound stops and there is no more music, because music is intrinsically a verb. At least sand sculptures exist until the tide comes in. But then we captured lightning in a bottle, figured out how to turn sound into signal and, subsequently, information, so music--for the first time in all of human history--became a noun, an actual thing, that could be captured and preserved and shared and altered and etc., and that's amazing but it's made us all so self-conscious about music, musical tastes, and definitely about our own, individual, innate musicianship and expressive musical ability. And created this whole garbage stream in education that thinks only listening to music is enough of a creative experience for kids (cheaper and more scalable, too) that we're just starting to find our way out of. Anyway, good post.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:46 AM on January 4 [24 favorites]
You have to be bad at something before you can be good at it
As an aside, this is something we all need to hear regularly. A favorite analogy for my students is to ask how many of them have had the lucky experience to be around a baby/toddler learning to walk. Many have, and of course everyone knows what I'm talking about, and I mention how joyful it is, especially for the parents. Smile, nice thought.
Then I ask if any of them ever had an urge to judge or mock a baby because of how clumsy the baby was while they learned to walk, because they couldn't even do something simple and basic right yet, har-har, and of course they always laugh at the absurdity of even thinking something like that, because who would make fun of a baby for being dumb? Of course they don't know much of anything, they just got here! We truly enjoy their learning and discovery and growth, because it's amazing and wonderful to witness and be part of, and etc. (I know I'm overexplaining this obvious analogy, but I mostly teach undergrads so you really have to let the teaching moments marinate) and then I ask them to maybe treat themselves that way, because most of them are still pretty new to the world of music and music-making (certainly in an advanced study sense) and so can't be expected to have the mastery that those of us who have been around for a while have, doing this for way more than 10,000 hours. Everyone has to fall down a lot to figure out how to walk--even with somebody right there helping and showing and explaining, because walking is a verb, it's not something you know but something you have to figure out how to do, yourself, to be able to do at all.
So to those who might want to make some kind of music but have for various reasons held back: please don't. Go forth and be truly bad at it, pick up an instrument and/or start singing badly, fall down a lot, have fun doing it because sucking at something is the first step toward being sorta good at something, and the primary experience of music is making it.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:14 AM on January 4 [11 favorites]
As an aside, this is something we all need to hear regularly. A favorite analogy for my students is to ask how many of them have had the lucky experience to be around a baby/toddler learning to walk. Many have, and of course everyone knows what I'm talking about, and I mention how joyful it is, especially for the parents. Smile, nice thought.
Then I ask if any of them ever had an urge to judge or mock a baby because of how clumsy the baby was while they learned to walk, because they couldn't even do something simple and basic right yet, har-har, and of course they always laugh at the absurdity of even thinking something like that, because who would make fun of a baby for being dumb? Of course they don't know much of anything, they just got here! We truly enjoy their learning and discovery and growth, because it's amazing and wonderful to witness and be part of, and etc. (I know I'm overexplaining this obvious analogy, but I mostly teach undergrads so you really have to let the teaching moments marinate) and then I ask them to maybe treat themselves that way, because most of them are still pretty new to the world of music and music-making (certainly in an advanced study sense) and so can't be expected to have the mastery that those of us who have been around for a while have, doing this for way more than 10,000 hours. Everyone has to fall down a lot to figure out how to walk--even with somebody right there helping and showing and explaining, because walking is a verb, it's not something you know but something you have to figure out how to do, yourself, to be able to do at all.
So to those who might want to make some kind of music but have for various reasons held back: please don't. Go forth and be truly bad at it, pick up an instrument and/or start singing badly, fall down a lot, have fun doing it because sucking at something is the first step toward being sorta good at something, and the primary experience of music is making it.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:14 AM on January 4 [11 favorites]
Piano meetups sound like a great idea.
I wonder if this is a particularly common feeling for piano learners, both adults and kids, because the experience is often just one-on-one with the student and teacher, I think more so than other instrumentals or singing. Music and art are kind of inherently social, and usually when we learn complicated things we do it as part of a community who are having some of the same struggles we are.
posted by smelendez at 11:23 AM on January 4 [2 favorites]
I wonder if this is a particularly common feeling for piano learners, both adults and kids, because the experience is often just one-on-one with the student and teacher, I think more so than other instrumentals or singing. Music and art are kind of inherently social, and usually when we learn complicated things we do it as part of a community who are having some of the same struggles we are.
posted by smelendez at 11:23 AM on January 4 [2 favorites]
I’ve learned to give myself grace, allow myself to be bad at things
I'm extremely very much still working on that. And now tempted to try via the medium of piano. What a lovely piece of writing.
posted by EvaDestruction at 11:38 AM on January 4 [2 favorites]
I'm extremely very much still working on that. And now tempted to try via the medium of piano. What a lovely piece of writing.
posted by EvaDestruction at 11:38 AM on January 4 [2 favorites]
I can't count the number of times I've tried to pickup the guitar and learn to play it. I pick it up and then... My fingers don't bend the right way, I can't hit a chord to save my life. I realize I suck and I give up.
It's a startling realization to know that the things you do seemingly get chosen because they come naturally. (and how much of that is actually selective memory eliding the challenges of sucking)
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:57 AM on January 4
It's a startling realization to know that the things you do seemingly get chosen because they come naturally. (and how much of that is actually selective memory eliding the challenges of sucking)
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:57 AM on January 4
Oh man. Wow, this was an interesting read for me in a lot of ways.
I did study piano very seriously. Seriously enough that I have my high school diploma in piano performance, which was earned across three years of juried performances and theory and practice exam weekends or something like that. At the end of high school there were two of use who were Best In State for piano performance and music theory and everyone else was far below us. Judged piano competitions are a strange thing.
Anyway, I went to college on a music scholarship, and was very very excited about taking off with further study in this setting. Unfortunately, the music teacher that I'd auditioned to study with when I was applying to enter the college left before I began my studies there, and the teacher I ended up with I did NOT connect with well at all. I really struggled to learn under this man, and also tried to find another teacher to transfer to, but by the end of three semesters there I had lost much interest in serious piano study and through a seres of circumstances unrelated to that left school.
When I got back home I did get back into playing, but not with a teacher. Instead I was playing for choirs at my church and also for the local community theater. It was a LOT of piano playing, constant preparation and discarding of material... I was already quite good at sight reading nearly anything that wasn't deeply serious classical music so it wasn't a lot of work much of the time. But it was a lot of fun.
After my time in town ended with me moving away to be with my even-still-yet husbear, I tried to keep the piano stuff up, but without context, I had lost a lot of what was driving me to play, which was basically working as accompanist for various vocal performances. And so the idea of "playing when there is no recital" really stuck out at me. Because that's why I stopped playing.
Fast forward 25 years, I do have an electric piano, it's even set up and ready to play. I have books of music. But wow, when I do sit down, my brain and fingers don't speak well anymore and my eyes and brain don't quite grok the dots on the page like they used to. I know these are skills I could get back pretty easily if I were to apply the time to get them back. But I'm continually left with the "why"... why play if there is no place or anyone to play for?
Anyway, thanks for this article. I'm going to need to read it again later as it was a bit of a heavy read for me even with the bit of warning the post contained. It's given me a lot to ponder.
Oh, and the other "Best In State" piano player next to me in high school? This guy.
posted by hippybear at 12:46 PM on January 4 [18 favorites]
I did study piano very seriously. Seriously enough that I have my high school diploma in piano performance, which was earned across three years of juried performances and theory and practice exam weekends or something like that. At the end of high school there were two of use who were Best In State for piano performance and music theory and everyone else was far below us. Judged piano competitions are a strange thing.
Anyway, I went to college on a music scholarship, and was very very excited about taking off with further study in this setting. Unfortunately, the music teacher that I'd auditioned to study with when I was applying to enter the college left before I began my studies there, and the teacher I ended up with I did NOT connect with well at all. I really struggled to learn under this man, and also tried to find another teacher to transfer to, but by the end of three semesters there I had lost much interest in serious piano study and through a seres of circumstances unrelated to that left school.
When I got back home I did get back into playing, but not with a teacher. Instead I was playing for choirs at my church and also for the local community theater. It was a LOT of piano playing, constant preparation and discarding of material... I was already quite good at sight reading nearly anything that wasn't deeply serious classical music so it wasn't a lot of work much of the time. But it was a lot of fun.
After my time in town ended with me moving away to be with my even-still-yet husbear, I tried to keep the piano stuff up, but without context, I had lost a lot of what was driving me to play, which was basically working as accompanist for various vocal performances. And so the idea of "playing when there is no recital" really stuck out at me. Because that's why I stopped playing.
Fast forward 25 years, I do have an electric piano, it's even set up and ready to play. I have books of music. But wow, when I do sit down, my brain and fingers don't speak well anymore and my eyes and brain don't quite grok the dots on the page like they used to. I know these are skills I could get back pretty easily if I were to apply the time to get them back. But I'm continually left with the "why"... why play if there is no place or anyone to play for?
Anyway, thanks for this article. I'm going to need to read it again later as it was a bit of a heavy read for me even with the bit of warning the post contained. It's given me a lot to ponder.
Oh, and the other "Best In State" piano player next to me in high school? This guy.
posted by hippybear at 12:46 PM on January 4 [18 favorites]
I grew up playing piano, cello, and saxophone. Wasn't really good at any of them.
But then I learned that I could sing really well, (1981 Kansas State Choir). And then I got myself an acoustic guitar and took a class in classical guitar. Wasn't much good at that either.
And now I totally want to record my bad rhythm guitar playing. Not being much good at that either. But, in spite of how bad I am at playing, boy does it feel good. Crank those knobs, and make whatever crazy noise you can...
posted by Windopaene at 12:47 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
But then I learned that I could sing really well, (1981 Kansas State Choir). And then I got myself an acoustic guitar and took a class in classical guitar. Wasn't much good at that either.
And now I totally want to record my bad rhythm guitar playing. Not being much good at that either. But, in spite of how bad I am at playing, boy does it feel good. Crank those knobs, and make whatever crazy noise you can...
posted by Windopaene at 12:47 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
"music is intrinsically a verb" - I love that!!
I bought a piano a few years ago. I have previous musical experience on other instruments, but I was daunted by the learning curve for this one (so daunted in fact that I'd avoided learning it for most of my life). I vowed to myself that this time I wasn't going to try to force progress, set expectations, or work toward a specific goal or level of achievement. This was strictly for fun, I would practice when I felt like it, and let the process take as long as it took - playing for me, as Doleful Creature said above. As a result my progress is slow, but it's steady and playing remains fun rather than a chore.
As an unforeseen side benefit, I'm getting a much better and deeper understanding of a lot of the music theory I'd picked up informally - and therefore only sort of grasped - over the years, and it's such a joy to not just understand this stuff but make use of it as I learn (and often embellish) new songs!
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:15 PM on January 4 [3 favorites]
I bought a piano a few years ago. I have previous musical experience on other instruments, but I was daunted by the learning curve for this one (so daunted in fact that I'd avoided learning it for most of my life). I vowed to myself that this time I wasn't going to try to force progress, set expectations, or work toward a specific goal or level of achievement. This was strictly for fun, I would practice when I felt like it, and let the process take as long as it took - playing for me, as Doleful Creature said above. As a result my progress is slow, but it's steady and playing remains fun rather than a chore.
As an unforeseen side benefit, I'm getting a much better and deeper understanding of a lot of the music theory I'd picked up informally - and therefore only sort of grasped - over the years, and it's such a joy to not just understand this stuff but make use of it as I learn (and often embellish) new songs!
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:15 PM on January 4 [3 favorites]
He scoffed and said, if I wasn't already playing fugues, that there was no way I was getting into Julliard or Eastman or any of the good music schools. I was 13.
Oh man, I got SO much of that sort of negativity when I got interested in music around the same age, mostly from my family - "You'll never make a living at it! Get a REAL job!". I wasn't even talking about anything like music school, I just wanted to have fun making music. That discouragement, and belittlement of music as a "serious" pursuit, seriously impeded my personal musical process...which I regret to this day. Knowing what I know now, maybe I could have made some sort of living at it after all, and been a happier (if poorer) person as a result.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:18 PM on January 4 [2 favorites]
Oh man, I got SO much of that sort of negativity when I got interested in music around the same age, mostly from my family - "You'll never make a living at it! Get a REAL job!". I wasn't even talking about anything like music school, I just wanted to have fun making music. That discouragement, and belittlement of music as a "serious" pursuit, seriously impeded my personal musical process...which I regret to this day. Knowing what I know now, maybe I could have made some sort of living at it after all, and been a happier (if poorer) person as a result.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:18 PM on January 4 [2 favorites]
This really hit home for me. I have a lot of hobbies that I've picked up and abandoned because I'm not "good enough." Of course I'm not—I've only just picked them up. But I have a really, really hard time doing something for the intrinsic pleasure of doing it without some sort of external outcome in mind. I'm trying to be better at it, at getting through my discomfort.
posted by synecdoche at 2:33 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
posted by synecdoche at 2:33 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: it's like gym membership, or kale
FTFY ;-)
"Natural Talent" is a damaging idea that barely even makes sense, if you really stop to think about it. People who are good at something, it's because they practice a LOT. They probably practice way more than you even realize
This idea carries its own tyranny, though. Its corollary is: if you're not good, it's because you just aren't applying yourself enough.
We can acknowledge the talent, brilliance and effort behind superior achievement, while at the same time claiming the right to participate and create at our own level, and to enjoy that. And of course to encourage others to participate. It's often the case that the more one participates, the more one enjoys and appreciates the highest achievements of the gifted few.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:39 PM on January 4 [4 favorites]
FTFY ;-)
"Natural Talent" is a damaging idea that barely even makes sense, if you really stop to think about it. People who are good at something, it's because they practice a LOT. They probably practice way more than you even realize
This idea carries its own tyranny, though. Its corollary is: if you're not good, it's because you just aren't applying yourself enough.
We can acknowledge the talent, brilliance and effort behind superior achievement, while at the same time claiming the right to participate and create at our own level, and to enjoy that. And of course to encourage others to participate. It's often the case that the more one participates, the more one enjoys and appreciates the highest achievements of the gifted few.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:39 PM on January 4 [4 favorites]
There's no question that this kind of feeling predates social media, but the way so many hobbies are now also a social media brand/side hustle nowadays can't be helping. Like, I am interested in baking, so I follow a handful of baking accounts on instagram. I learn a ton, get lots of ideas that wouldn't have organically occurred to me. And, though, the pressure to be as good as them, to ALSO make it my "brand," to post all my bakes and try to make some kind of job out of this...it's insidious. It would no doubt be more so if I were someone who really needed/was looking for a side hustle, which a lot of folks are, you know?
It was different when a well-meaning relative might say "oh you like baking so much, you should open a BAAAAAAAKERY!" and everyone could just smile and say thanks and ignore them. Now they're like, in your DMs sending you this person and that and asking why you don't have sponsors yet.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:56 PM on January 4 [5 favorites]
It was different when a well-meaning relative might say "oh you like baking so much, you should open a BAAAAAAAKERY!" and everyone could just smile and say thanks and ignore them. Now they're like, in your DMs sending you this person and that and asking why you don't have sponsors yet.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:56 PM on January 4 [5 favorites]
"Natural Talent" is a damaging idea that barely even makes sense, if you really stop to think about it. People who are good at something, it's because they practice a LOT. They probably practice way more than you even realize
This idea carries its own tyranny, though. Its corollary is: if you're not good, it's because you just aren't applying yourself enough.
Yeah, there definitely is such a thing as natural aptitude, which when applied to the arts we call "talent." One of the perilous things about having natural aptitude is that you can get pretty far without practicing. I was definitely a "did not practice" piano student when I was in middle and high school, and then my teacher would say things like "You know what I like about you, grumpybear69? You practice." Which of course made me wonder how good I could have been had I actually applied the same dedication to my craft that people without my aptitude but with far more drive to improve had. See also: smart kids who slack off in class but still ace the tests. Talent/aptitude are distinct from tenacity and drive. It is when they are both present at a high level that people really take off, performance-wise.
It has only been in my 40s that I truly dedicated myself to something I wasn't naturally good at: running. I'm a lot better than when I started, and I've taken over leadership of my local running group, but I'm objectively not fast and will probably never run a marathon. And it took a long, long time to improve, and learn to deal with setbacks, etc. But I will never be competitive, ever, or even as fast as my immediate peers. And that's OK. It has been amazing to experience slowly improving at something without the pressure of wanting to be the best at it.
Now if I could just apply that mindset to my music, which has been on hiatus for (checks watch) 8 years.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:58 PM on January 4 [5 favorites]
This idea carries its own tyranny, though. Its corollary is: if you're not good, it's because you just aren't applying yourself enough.
Yeah, there definitely is such a thing as natural aptitude, which when applied to the arts we call "talent." One of the perilous things about having natural aptitude is that you can get pretty far without practicing. I was definitely a "did not practice" piano student when I was in middle and high school, and then my teacher would say things like "You know what I like about you, grumpybear69? You practice." Which of course made me wonder how good I could have been had I actually applied the same dedication to my craft that people without my aptitude but with far more drive to improve had. See also: smart kids who slack off in class but still ace the tests. Talent/aptitude are distinct from tenacity and drive. It is when they are both present at a high level that people really take off, performance-wise.
It has only been in my 40s that I truly dedicated myself to something I wasn't naturally good at: running. I'm a lot better than when I started, and I've taken over leadership of my local running group, but I'm objectively not fast and will probably never run a marathon. And it took a long, long time to improve, and learn to deal with setbacks, etc. But I will never be competitive, ever, or even as fast as my immediate peers. And that's OK. It has been amazing to experience slowly improving at something without the pressure of wanting to be the best at it.
Now if I could just apply that mindset to my music, which has been on hiatus for (checks watch) 8 years.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:58 PM on January 4 [5 favorites]
youtube is ridiculously good for neat vids about learning music once it gets the idea you want to hear about it.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:14 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
posted by Sebmojo at 3:14 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
nth-ing the joy of just doing it for YOU. Not everything has to be content or a side hustle! It's okay to only share some or none of your projects.
This piece is right on time for me—I recently started re-teaching myself the upright bass again after ~20 years. I was never great, but like, I could pick up a chart and deliver something unfancy but fine: serviceable mediocrity (new band name). It's a variable value of fun to see what my fore brain has forgotten but my muscles and less conscious brain have remembered in the past two decades. While I've noodled out a few easy songs to practice, just focusing on being able to hold notes in tune without rattling has become almost a meditative practice that I never would have had the patience or appreciation for as a kid. It's been useful reminder that progress is not linear, frustration is part of growing, and the only way to fail is not to pick up the instrument at all. The only standard I'm trying to set for myself right now is to pick it up and play for at least five minutes a day. Most days, I play for at least ten minutes, and keeping the bar that low has made it easier for me to build the habit along with my muscles and skill. The pace can be as slow and gentle as I need it to be because it's just for me.
posted by smirkette at 3:18 PM on January 4 [6 favorites]
This piece is right on time for me—I recently started re-teaching myself the upright bass again after ~20 years. I was never great, but like, I could pick up a chart and deliver something unfancy but fine: serviceable mediocrity (new band name). It's a variable value of fun to see what my fore brain has forgotten but my muscles and less conscious brain have remembered in the past two decades. While I've noodled out a few easy songs to practice, just focusing on being able to hold notes in tune without rattling has become almost a meditative practice that I never would have had the patience or appreciation for as a kid. It's been useful reminder that progress is not linear, frustration is part of growing, and the only way to fail is not to pick up the instrument at all. The only standard I'm trying to set for myself right now is to pick it up and play for at least five minutes a day. Most days, I play for at least ten minutes, and keeping the bar that low has made it easier for me to build the habit along with my muscles and skill. The pace can be as slow and gentle as I need it to be because it's just for me.
posted by smirkette at 3:18 PM on January 4 [6 favorites]
You have to be bad at something before you can be good at it.
This is excellent. And I want to extend it to: Every {art, craft, sport} requires people who are bad at it. You cannot have Mo Farah without someone losing their local 5k. You will not get Kristin Hersh without the kids who always lose the battle of the bands.
I think this is why pinball died.
Rise up and join the ranks of the mediocre-to-poor! We're essential!
posted by Hermione Dies at 3:21 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
This is excellent. And I want to extend it to: Every {art, craft, sport} requires people who are bad at it. You cannot have Mo Farah without someone losing their local 5k. You will not get Kristin Hersh without the kids who always lose the battle of the bands.
I think this is why pinball died.
Rise up and join the ranks of the mediocre-to-poor! We're essential!
posted by Hermione Dies at 3:21 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
And a weird thing I experienced not too long ago was going to my parents' 60th wedding anniversary event, which was very well attended by people some of whom knew me from infancy, and nearly every single one of them asked me if I was doing anything with my piano playing. To the point where it got a bit fingernails-on-chalkboard.
Hey, very old person! Sorry you've not seen me in nearly 30 years, and I'm glad this is the ONLY THING YOU REMEMBER ABOUT ME.. But that's not been me for a long time. Anything else to talk about? Nope.
posted by hippybear at 3:22 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
Hey, very old person! Sorry you've not seen me in nearly 30 years, and I'm glad this is the ONLY THING YOU REMEMBER ABOUT ME.. But that's not been me for a long time. Anything else to talk about? Nope.
posted by hippybear at 3:22 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
Rise up and join the ranks of the mediocre-to-poor! We're essential!
And having a lot more fun, lots of times! (This is also me bowling: I am there to make everyone else feel better about their own game while I have fun losing with as much style as possible.)
posted by smirkette at 3:24 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
And having a lot more fun, lots of times! (This is also me bowling: I am there to make everyone else feel better about their own game while I have fun losing with as much style as possible.)
posted by smirkette at 3:24 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
I'm 53 and picked up bass during the pandemic. I already played guitar and it's the same also not. I took classes for a half-year but the teacher wasn't really helping me progress, so I stopped. I play for myself, and I probably suck for someone who's been playing for 3 years (plus 40+ years of guitar) but it's fun dammit and it gives me an excuse to buy stuff, as well.
I also recently sold a short story I worked my butt off for, and I took the payment and bought a sweet 5-string cort which is way too much bass for me just playing in my living room / office, but I don't care. It brings me joy everytime I look at it or play.
posted by signal at 3:51 PM on January 4 [3 favorites]
I also recently sold a short story I worked my butt off for, and I took the payment and bought a sweet 5-string cort which is way too much bass for me just playing in my living room / office, but I don't care. It brings me joy everytime I look at it or play.
posted by signal at 3:51 PM on January 4 [3 favorites]
usually when we learn complicated things we do it as part of a community who are having some of the same struggles we are.
I dunno, this may be a personality thing. I've definitely had the following experience several times:
>interested in Thing
>dabbled a little at home
>see post about Thing Class for Total Beginners - Any or No Skill Level Welcome
>go to class
>everyone is clearly significantly better than me, even those who say they're total beginners
>"Alright everybody, let's do some simple easy beginner activities"
>huh, these activities are really hard and confusing for me but everyone else is doing them just fine
>everyone keeps going on about how Simple and Easy these are, isn't Thing fun?
>leave feeling much worse about Thing and myself
posted by star gentle uterus at 4:07 PM on January 4 [7 favorites]
I dunno, this may be a personality thing. I've definitely had the following experience several times:
>interested in Thing
>dabbled a little at home
>see post about Thing Class for Total Beginners - Any or No Skill Level Welcome
>go to class
>everyone is clearly significantly better than me, even those who say they're total beginners
>"Alright everybody, let's do some simple easy beginner activities"
>huh, these activities are really hard and confusing for me but everyone else is doing them just fine
>everyone keeps going on about how Simple and Easy these are, isn't Thing fun?
>leave feeling much worse about Thing and myself
posted by star gentle uterus at 4:07 PM on January 4 [7 favorites]
But maybe... when they were at your current level, they were too shy/ashamed/fearful to join the Thing Class for Total Beginners! Maybe you're just braver than they were at that point, while they waited until they had more skill under their belt before showing up for a "no skill level needed" class.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:55 PM on January 4 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:55 PM on January 4 [2 favorites]
My soul is still vibrating mildly at the prospect of piano meetups. That sounds amazing to me.
Honestly, it sounds like the times during the 3 hours of "free time activity" we'd have during my decade spent going to music camp, where some of us would just meet up and do music for three hours. Entirely free-form, sometimes a sing-a-long, sometimes a performance of a piece being worked on...
Not sure if those exist in my world, but they sound amazing to me.
posted by hippybear at 5:00 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
Honestly, it sounds like the times during the 3 hours of "free time activity" we'd have during my decade spent going to music camp, where some of us would just meet up and do music for three hours. Entirely free-form, sometimes a sing-a-long, sometimes a performance of a piece being worked on...
Not sure if those exist in my world, but they sound amazing to me.
posted by hippybear at 5:00 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
My kids are taking piano lessons. Both me and my wife took lessons when we were younger and for a while I could easily help out if my kids got stuck but now they're beyond me. My wife is treating it as a challenge though and tries to play their pieces as well as a few others that she wants to learn. We're the only ones that hear her play but she enjoys doing it and can then tell the kids "I practiced so now it's your turn" which is actually pretty helpful. I kind of want to practice in the mornings when they're all gone and then surprise them one day by being able to play their pieces as well but I've got other hobbies that I'm more into, and that I also will never be great at.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:20 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:20 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
Why not learn duets together?
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 6:06 PM on January 4
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 6:06 PM on January 4
I’ve always appreciated these guys’ approach to guitar playing, which can be applied to various other pursuits as well.
posted by zoinks at 6:44 PM on January 4
posted by zoinks at 6:44 PM on January 4
Then I ask if any of them ever had an urge to judge or mock a baby because of how clumsy the baby was while they learned to walk, because they couldn't even do something simple and basic right yet, har-har, and of course they always laugh at the absurdity of even thinking something like that, because who would make fun of a baby for being dumb?
This is a fantastic way to put it, but also my evil brain pictured some Matilda-esque parents that are just fucking roasting their baby for being a non-walking buffoon and I know I shouldn't find it funny but I can't stop snort laughing.
posted by Literaryhero at 8:33 PM on January 4 [2 favorites]
This is a fantastic way to put it, but also my evil brain pictured some Matilda-esque parents that are just fucking roasting their baby for being a non-walking buffoon and I know I shouldn't find it funny but I can't stop snort laughing.
posted by Literaryhero at 8:33 PM on January 4 [2 favorites]
If I had a backing band and a mix, you wouldn't realize how bad I play.
We made all our kids play piano. And they ended up all really being good at it, albeit in different ways. None of them has chosen music as their life's work. Sad.
posted by Windopaene at 8:44 PM on January 4
We made all our kids play piano. And they ended up all really being good at it, albeit in different ways. None of them has chosen music as their life's work. Sad.
posted by Windopaene at 8:44 PM on January 4
Spending a summer learning to juggle was one of the best things I ever did for my mental health. In juggling, failure is obvious, and for me, it happens a lot. I am clumsy, so it's not a hobby I would normally try. That summer taught me how to fail, which has come in handy for the rest of my life.
posted by tofu_crouton at 8:45 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
posted by tofu_crouton at 8:45 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
This thread reminds me (an adult learner of piano) of a quotation:
"It'd be a quiet forest if only the best birds sang."
posted by storybored at 9:38 PM on January 4 [9 favorites]
"It'd be a quiet forest if only the best birds sang."
posted by storybored at 9:38 PM on January 4 [9 favorites]
This was a wonderful piece that really resonates with me. I have been on my own piano journey. Classical instruction all of my childhood, and although I always continued dabbling and playing a little, I always felt frustrated that I could only read sheet music. Fast forward to three years ago when my dad wanted to play music together and I realized I desperately wanted my experience with the piano to be similar to how a lot of people play guitar: know some chords, mess around and have fun.
So I delved into a bunch of online resources which I want to share, because it broke me open to the possibility of piano just for fun and eventually to songwriting and composing just for fun. I feel like I spent the first 30 years of my life reciting poetry and now I finally know how to rearrange all those words just to speak a sentence. And it's so fun just talking to myself or to my friends!
I think my piano experience (classical training, sheet music, no improvising) is pretty common, and for anyone who is curious, I highly recommend approaching the piano from a new place. Here are the websites and online courses that I recommend:
Piano Genius: They have 10 free videos online to get a feel for it, then monthly subscription (highly worth it). Designed for total beginners, but for me it was the best way to get into an approach to piano that doesn't include sheet music.
There are incredible online courses from Berklee College of Music on Coursera. If you audit them, they are free. The entire Developing Your Musicianship specialization was great. It includes a lot of music theory but from a very practical perspective, all of it set up to get you improvising, playing and having fun. I also loved their songwriting specialization.
Musical U is a very complete platform that has many courses designd to get people to connect with their musicality. It's a monthly subscription thing.
Popmatics has a free 10 day challenge called campfire that holds your hand through creating and improvising a piano song one piece at a time.
HDPiano, both the free stuff on their youtube channel and monthly subscription is great if you are motivated by specific songs. One of the teachers on their, Devon Yesberger, also offers online courses that I like.
I like the Nathaniel Music Youtube Channel.
Getting back into the piano the last few years with the help of a lot of these resources has been one of the best things I have done with my adult life and has been the source of so much joy! Also, anyone else have any recommendations out there?
posted by maca at 1:08 AM on January 5 [9 favorites]
So I delved into a bunch of online resources which I want to share, because it broke me open to the possibility of piano just for fun and eventually to songwriting and composing just for fun. I feel like I spent the first 30 years of my life reciting poetry and now I finally know how to rearrange all those words just to speak a sentence. And it's so fun just talking to myself or to my friends!
I think my piano experience (classical training, sheet music, no improvising) is pretty common, and for anyone who is curious, I highly recommend approaching the piano from a new place. Here are the websites and online courses that I recommend:
Piano Genius: They have 10 free videos online to get a feel for it, then monthly subscription (highly worth it). Designed for total beginners, but for me it was the best way to get into an approach to piano that doesn't include sheet music.
There are incredible online courses from Berklee College of Music on Coursera. If you audit them, they are free. The entire Developing Your Musicianship specialization was great. It includes a lot of music theory but from a very practical perspective, all of it set up to get you improvising, playing and having fun. I also loved their songwriting specialization.
Musical U is a very complete platform that has many courses designd to get people to connect with their musicality. It's a monthly subscription thing.
Popmatics has a free 10 day challenge called campfire that holds your hand through creating and improvising a piano song one piece at a time.
HDPiano, both the free stuff on their youtube channel and monthly subscription is great if you are motivated by specific songs. One of the teachers on their, Devon Yesberger, also offers online courses that I like.
I like the Nathaniel Music Youtube Channel.
Getting back into the piano the last few years with the help of a lot of these resources has been one of the best things I have done with my adult life and has been the source of so much joy! Also, anyone else have any recommendations out there?
posted by maca at 1:08 AM on January 5 [9 favorites]
I play guitar for fun, I was in a band in my early 20s but all the musicians I met were not my people - I vastly prefer the bland professionalism of office workers to folks wanting to be in rock bands from a day to day standpoint. An hour of performing was not good enough to make up for the rest of it.
So now I mostly just play along to other people's music, mostly for myself but occasionally my kids listen, and I love it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:02 AM on January 5 [1 favorite]
So now I mostly just play along to other people's music, mostly for myself but occasionally my kids listen, and I love it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:02 AM on January 5 [1 favorite]
>everyone is clearly significantly better than me, even those who say they're total beginners
>"Alright everybody, let's do some simple easy beginner activities"
>huh, these activities are really hard and confusing for me but everyone else is doing them just fine
>everyone keeps going on about how Simple and Easy these are, isn't Thing fun?
Oh ho ho ho, let me tell you, as someone who is probably one of those people you're talking about: we have taken the beginner class 4 times already. At one time we were all in your place, wondering how everyone else knows what to do.
The thing about "beginner" is it's actually a really long phase that encompasses a fairly wide span of skill; you can be way better than "Day 1" without actually being ready to progress to the next level. In my case, it's a fitness class -- after six months, I am decent at the beginner level, but if I were to start taking the intermediate/advanced classes right now, I would probably hurt myself pretty badly.
Now it would be nice if instructors would foreground this for people as they did in my fitness classes, so that someone who was literally on their first day could know that most people were actually on, like, Day 25. But maybe the instructors don't even know...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:32 AM on January 5 [4 favorites]
>"Alright everybody, let's do some simple easy beginner activities"
>huh, these activities are really hard and confusing for me but everyone else is doing them just fine
>everyone keeps going on about how Simple and Easy these are, isn't Thing fun?
Oh ho ho ho, let me tell you, as someone who is probably one of those people you're talking about: we have taken the beginner class 4 times already. At one time we were all in your place, wondering how everyone else knows what to do.
The thing about "beginner" is it's actually a really long phase that encompasses a fairly wide span of skill; you can be way better than "Day 1" without actually being ready to progress to the next level. In my case, it's a fitness class -- after six months, I am decent at the beginner level, but if I were to start taking the intermediate/advanced classes right now, I would probably hurt myself pretty badly.
Now it would be nice if instructors would foreground this for people as they did in my fitness classes, so that someone who was literally on their first day could know that most people were actually on, like, Day 25. But maybe the instructors don't even know...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:32 AM on January 5 [4 favorites]
What is the cost differential between taking a group class and taking individual solo lessons?
I only ever had group music lessons at music camp growing up. All my actual instrument study [piano, classical string bass] was 1:1 with a teacher. Even at the music camp, all the group instruction was backed up with solo instruction. [Music camp is a freakish place where you might be in a large ensemble and working on a solo performance piece, and you might have two group sessions and one solo instruction session plus practice time every day, and then at the end of the week all the groups perform and there are recitals for solos. It's intense and insane and if I could do it now in my mid-50s I would.]
posted by hippybear at 4:15 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]
I only ever had group music lessons at music camp growing up. All my actual instrument study [piano, classical string bass] was 1:1 with a teacher. Even at the music camp, all the group instruction was backed up with solo instruction. [Music camp is a freakish place where you might be in a large ensemble and working on a solo performance piece, and you might have two group sessions and one solo instruction session plus practice time every day, and then at the end of the week all the groups perform and there are recitals for solos. It's intense and insane and if I could do it now in my mid-50s I would.]
posted by hippybear at 4:15 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]
What is the cost differential between taking a group class and taking individual solo lessons?
It varies, but I think a paired lesson is typically half the cost of an individual lesson, but a small group of 4 is more likely to be about a third the cost of an individual lesson rather than a quarter. A large group is going to be in the same ballpark as a group exercise or crafting class. The group class might well be longer than you would have as an individual lesson for a beginner, which changes the pricing dynamic.
For something that is essentially classical music a group class/lesson works well as long as the vast majority of the group, including you, are progressing at about the same rate. Usually this is because they're practising at the same frequency and have broadly similar musical backgrounds. Some groups have a setup that works effectively for people progressing at different rates for example brass bands.
I started learning instruments in group lessons as a child (group size of 30, group size of 5), before switching to an individual lessons in my preferred instrument after 3 years. I could probably have remained with the group 1 or 2 years longer than I did before I really needed individual lessons to continue progressing. But as a child and then teenager I didn't have the maturity needed to work without frequent lessons. As an adult, that would be different and if I progressed more quickly than a group I could switch to infrequent individual lessons to keep costs down.
posted by plonkee at 6:04 AM on January 6
It varies, but I think a paired lesson is typically half the cost of an individual lesson, but a small group of 4 is more likely to be about a third the cost of an individual lesson rather than a quarter. A large group is going to be in the same ballpark as a group exercise or crafting class. The group class might well be longer than you would have as an individual lesson for a beginner, which changes the pricing dynamic.
For something that is essentially classical music a group class/lesson works well as long as the vast majority of the group, including you, are progressing at about the same rate. Usually this is because they're practising at the same frequency and have broadly similar musical backgrounds. Some groups have a setup that works effectively for people progressing at different rates for example brass bands.
I started learning instruments in group lessons as a child (group size of 30, group size of 5), before switching to an individual lessons in my preferred instrument after 3 years. I could probably have remained with the group 1 or 2 years longer than I did before I really needed individual lessons to continue progressing. But as a child and then teenager I didn't have the maturity needed to work without frequent lessons. As an adult, that would be different and if I progressed more quickly than a group I could switch to infrequent individual lessons to keep costs down.
posted by plonkee at 6:04 AM on January 6
Also, it doesn't really bring me that much joy to make music by myself. I get a lot out of making music with others. If I was going to take up an instrument again it would be to join an orchestra or band or similar. I would need to do a lot of work on the piano before I was capable of contributing effectively to a group and such groups are harder to find.
posted by plonkee at 6:08 AM on January 6
posted by plonkee at 6:08 AM on January 6
This article hit me at a visceral level. Several years ago, while feeling flush, I bought an acoustic guitar. I'm teaching myself and a LOT got in the way until the last six months. Also in the meantime I also have a Fender Strat, a little Boss Amp, and a couple pedals. A neighbor loaned me a beautiful Les Paul Custom.
I'm 66 and have no dreams of playing in public, let alone rocking an arena. My skills are marginal and I learn at a slow pace, beating back the demon in my head that says "this is way too hard". But damn, even hitting a chord correctly or a nice progression is fun. And the feeling I get playing either one of the electrics through a bit of distortion should be bottled and sold as a hormone boost for seniors.
At night, I lay in bed and think about which guitars I would buy if I had crazy money.
posted by Ber at 10:37 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]
I'm 66 and have no dreams of playing in public, let alone rocking an arena. My skills are marginal and I learn at a slow pace, beating back the demon in my head that says "this is way too hard". But damn, even hitting a chord correctly or a nice progression is fun. And the feeling I get playing either one of the electrics through a bit of distortion should be bottled and sold as a hormone boost for seniors.
At night, I lay in bed and think about which guitars I would buy if I had crazy money.
posted by Ber at 10:37 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]
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This is the problem: this need to be perfect, the desire to turn every part of you into something that defines you as a person.
posted by The River Ivel at 8:59 AM on January 4 [8 favorites]