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This Old Cub gets to the Hall
December 5, 2011 9:16 AM   Subscribe

The votes are in, and former Chicago Cub, Ron Santo is this year's only inductee into the Baseball Hall of Fame, one year after his death. (previously discussed)
posted by vagabond (23 comments total)

 
Santo was voted in by the Veterans Committee. The results from the BBWAA voting won't be announced until January.
posted by Awkward Philip at 9:25 AM on December 5, 2011


He's the only inductee voted in by the Veterans Committee, but he likely isn't the only inductee. Santo will be inducted into Cooperstown along with any players elected by members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
posted by foggy out there now at 9:26 AM on December 5, 2011


On one hand, I'm glad because I think he deserves it.

On the other hand, I am not looking forward to the schmaltzy tributes in any and all local media.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:28 AM on December 5, 2011


schmaltzy tributes
posted by timsteil at 9:44 AM on December 5, 2011


And they screw over Gil Hodges again...
posted by AJaffe at 9:44 AM on December 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


Fuck Gil Hodges...Pete Rose needs to get in or anyone who played post 1994 should never be allowed in.
posted by spicynuts at 9:49 AM on December 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


I guess I should just be happy it's finally happened, but I'm so angry that they couldn't do the right thing when he was still alive to enjoy it.

When Santo retired, he was one of the best five third basemen of all time, maybe in the top three. Modern statistics only reinforce what a fantastic career he had. Why did it take so long?
posted by ibmcginty at 9:55 AM on December 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


About time on Santo, but I'm still waiting for Dick Allen's induction.
posted by jonmc at 10:02 AM on December 5, 2011


Pete Rose is disqualified on haircuts alone.
posted by AJaffe at 10:28 AM on December 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


...but he likely isn't the only inductee

Depends. This year's ballot kind of sucks. Larkin's looking like the most likely based on last year's vote, but his career number's really aren't that impressive. Bagwell and Walker are the best players on that list (excluding McGwire and Palmeiro) but I suspect they've got a few more years ahead of them. Mac and Raffy probably aren't ever getting in, though it'll be interesting to see if Mac can continue building goodwill as a coach.

Pretty sharp dropoff thereafter. Mattingly's inability to get elected speaks pretty well to newcomer Bernie Williams' chances, but lobbying for both from the Yankee faithful will remain hilarious, like the "DHs are people too!" angle from Mariners fans trying to get Edgar in. On the other side of the coin (but completely unelectable) is Bill Mueller, a one-time AL Batting Champ and central member to the Red Sox's 2004 World Series run.

Personally, I'm campaigning for Carl Everett. Dude knows the truth about dinosaurs.

As for the rest of the Veteran's Committee ballot:
[Luis] Tiant received less than three votes. Jim Kaat received 10 votes, while Gil Hodges and Minnie Minoso received nine each. Tony Oliva received eight votes.
Anyway: Santo deserved to get in anyway, but his death sealed the deal. The Hall of Fame, like most parts things in baseball determined by people who don't play it anymore (if they ever did) is a fun thing to talk about that's actually incredibly stupid.
posted by SpiffyRob at 10:31 AM on December 5, 2011


Thanks for posting this, vagabond.

All of us who bleed Cubbie blue are more happy today.
posted by achmorrison at 10:55 AM on December 5, 2011


Mattingly's inability to get elected speaks pretty well to newcomer Bernie Williams' chances

If only he'd trimmed his sideburns!
posted by The Bridge on the River Kai Ryssdal at 10:56 AM on December 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


Fuck Gil Hodges...Pete Rose needs to get in or anyone who played post 1994 should never be allowed in.

Don't worry about Pete. Considering he can still get people to pay $200 for one of the least self-aware autographs in history, he might honestly be doing better as a pariah than he would if they let him in the Hall.
posted by Copronymus at 11:21 AM on December 5, 2011


By the way, 2013 is when the real HOF fun starts: Bonds, Clemens, Piazza and Sosa.

2014 and 2015 each have slam dunks in Maddux and RJ, respectively.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:48 AM on December 5, 2011


Randy Johnson is the greatest sporting nickname evar.
posted by docgonzo at 12:13 PM on December 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


Glad to hear Santo made it.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:19 PM on December 5, 2011


Hodges is an interesting case in that his numbers don't compare well to HOF 1B from before his career (Greenberg, Foxx) or after (McCovey through Bagwell). But for whatever reason, there weren't really any first basemen in the 40s and 50s who fit that slugger archetype. As a result Hodges spent a good bit of his career as the best hitting first baseman in the majors, but it's a little hard to know how to factor that into his all-time ranking. It's a little similar to the pro-Jack Morris argument.

WAR takes the performance of his contemporaries into account and puts him at 44.6 wins, a little better than Thurman Munson and a little worse than Bernie Williams. He's better than a lot of guys that are in (coughJim Ricecough) but I think that's the only criteria by which he belongs.

Pete Rose isn't worth discussing, everybody made up their mind on what should be done with him 20 years ago.

I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to give a crap about the Hall, really, since I think it's a joke without Clemens and Bonds (neither will come particularly close when they show up on the ballot; look at McGwire's performance). They're both jerks, they both cheated, but they're also arguably the two best baseball players I've ever seen... there's plenty of jerks (Cobb) and cheaters (Perry, amphetamine users) in the Hall already, might as well put in the guys who made as big of a mark on the game as anyone since Ruth.
posted by mellow seas at 1:33 PM on December 5, 2011


eamus catuli!
posted by hal_c_on at 3:08 PM on December 5, 2011


lobbying for both from the Yankee faithful will remain hilarious, like the "DHs are people too!" angle from Mariners fans trying to get Edgar in.

Were you trying to piss us Mariners fans off?

Edgar Martinez was the second best right-handed hitter of the 1990s. What he lacked in counting stats he made up for in average and OBP. No, he's not a Griffey/Johnson level sure-fire HoFer, but there are worse corner infielders in the HoF with worse gloves.
posted by dw at 7:12 PM on December 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


And it pisses me off they wouldn't put Santo in the Hall in his lifetime. One of the most complete 3b in the history of the game. That they left him out just points out the fallacy of counting stats that voters keep hanging onto.
posted by dw at 7:14 PM on December 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


Seems to me that the hall has come to resemble a cross between a clannish insiders club and a bold desire for statistical purity.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:37 PM on December 5, 2011


Not trying to piss anyone off, dw, but the reality of the situation is that with Bagwell and Walker on the ballot, there are two corner infielders with stronger career stats in counting stats, career averages and # of strong seasons, plus they played field positions during their most productive years. It's telling that Edgar's % of the vote actually went down last year, and with the taint of the 2013 ballot around the corner, I think it's going to be an uphill battle for him, even though I'm not aware of any real steroid allegations against him. (There was that thing where Shane Monahan accused the whole clubhouse, but that didn't seem to have any teeth.)

So, I meant what I said: It's the "DHs are people too!" argument. I'll be going through the same thing myself after Ortiz retires. Edgar really kicks off the pure-DH era for the HoF, and he's an interesting case for seeing how it's all going to go down. I say "hilarious" because the whole thing has no real world weight beyond being a fun debate.

And you should know better than to stay invoke "there are worse guys in already" arguments. The HoF is a joke, but using its past foolish decisions as evidence for your own guy is just lowering the bar for everyone.
posted by SpiffyRob at 5:29 AM on December 6, 2011


Had Pujols on the brain: Obviously, Walker was primarily an outfielder.
posted by SpiffyRob at 5:44 AM on December 6, 2011


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