Join 3,512 readers in helping fund MetaFilter (Hide)


Vote in my space.
September 17, 2008 6:40 PM   Subscribe

Newfoundland's Progressive Conservative Premier registered his Anything But Conservative campaign today with Elections Canada. The same agency also deemed that the online vote swap on Facebook is in fact legal. They're hiring.
posted by gman (62 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

 
You Canadians! Your politics are much more fun.

I wish I had a riding right about now...
posted by Eekacat at 6:53 PM on September 17, 2008


Danny Williams is an asshole. He's made a brilliant political career out of attacking the federal government, whether the Liberals or Conservatives are in power (he didn't like Paul Martin any more than he likes Stephen Harper). In fact, when the Liberals were in power he was allegedly so angry at the federal government that he took down the Canadian flag at the legislature. He backtracked when he realized he wasn't winning any sympathy by disrespecting the symbol of Canada. He certainly lost any sympathy I had for him.

His asshole nature was forever cemented in my mind, however, when, after decades of accepting transfers from the federal government (which means most consistently accepting transfers from Ontario), the news broke that because of our totally dysfunctional and overly generous system of transfer payments (which the Conservative government has not helped), Ontario was at risk of falling into "have-not" status, and Danny Williams reacted by - wait for it - gloating. That's right, the premier of a province that has received billions from Ontario over the years declared, "We're here to be part of a strong federation and we're here to help our weaker sisters in their time of need." Fuck you, Danny.

It takes a lot to make me wish ill on Newfoundlanders - great people who have suffered a lot - but when I heard him say that, all I wanted was for Hibernia to dry up and the Lower Churchill to stop running. At least long enough for Newfounlanderes to vote this arrogant, imperious, self-aggrandizing, wretched, malcontented little shithead out of office. After that, let them have nectar and ambrosia until the cod come back.
posted by Dasein at 6:59 PM on September 17, 2008 [4 favorites]


Ha! I live in Jack Layton's riding, which is apparently seen as the dustbin for can't-win Conservative candidates. Apparently the local Con can't even get the 100 local signatures required to be a candidate this year.
posted by Schlimmbesserung at 7:23 PM on September 17, 2008


My citizenship application will almost certainly not be processed and accepted in time for me to vote this time. If someone will vote against him for me, I will vote for Obama in the US for you.

(yeah, yeah, I was going to do that anyway. But this way it would be for YOU! A Canadian!)
posted by Naberius at 7:27 PM on September 17, 2008


Naberius: I solemnly swear to vote against the Conservatives (for YOU!). Sadly, I live in a riding that would require a miracle not to stay Conservative, but at least I'm voting against Harper for you.
posted by ssg at 7:31 PM on September 17, 2008


Canadian politics is so much fun. British-style party yahoos + hearty doses of American silliness + occasional threat of Quebec separatism = yummy!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:38 PM on September 17, 2008


It's weird. I live in High Park and I haven't seen a single Conservative sign. Only NDP, Liberal and Green. Either they don't have it together yet or my riding is trying to compensate for all the ugly blue areas outside 416/905.
posted by gman at 7:42 PM on September 17, 2008


occasional threat of Quebec separatism = yummy!
Won't be so yummy when the French-Canadian Wheelchair Assassins arrive ...



But seriously, I'm actually starting to be sad I'm going to miss this vote by little more than a week. This solidarity against the Conservatives brings tears to my eyes.
posted by mannequito at 7:45 PM on September 17, 2008


I live (or, more accurately, will be casting an absentee vote) in Winnipeg South, a riding which went Tory in the 2006 by a little over 100 votes out of 40 000 cast. Vote-swapping still seems a little "off" to me, but given that only a few votes might be able to turn the riding red again I might be open to it.
posted by Johnny Assay at 8:06 PM on September 17, 2008


Johnny Assay - what do I need to do to arrange an absentee vote? Are you out of the country, or just temporarily elsewhere within/?
posted by mannequito at 8:10 PM on September 17, 2008


Dasein, from your "declared" article:
The news from Queen's Park prompted Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams to say, "We're here to be part of a strong federation and we're here to help our weaker sisters in their time of need."

He added: "The big shoulders of Ontario have borne a lot of the weight over many years and, from Newfoundland and Labrador's perspective, we'd like nothing better (than) to lend a helping hand."
What else should he have said? To me, this doesn't read as gloating, it reads as 'now that Ontario is becoming a have-not and we become a have, we will support them'. This is exactly what equalization is meant to accomplish. What would have been terrible is if, upon becoming a have province (supposedly next few years), Williams said that he didn't need Canada anymore, fought for keeping up the subsidies to Newfoundland.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not the hugest fan of Williams [mainly his intrusion into MUN's politics, the aforementioned flag stupidity, and my fear that he's becoming a cult of personality], I have nothing but respect for his Finance Minister (disclosure: he was the 'other jewish family' where I grew up, so he's an old family friend), and Williams has done very well in his dealings with the oil companies. Like staggeringly well, by refusing to bend over and suck up to them and instead getting deals that will help the populace.


More importantly, holy christ vote-swapping is legal here? Hot damn! Any Liberals in a riding that the Greens might win, want a trade?

My riding is going conservative. Interior B.C? Bah.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:11 PM on September 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


Mannequito: If not military, if military.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:17 PM on September 17, 2008


Lemurrhea, if calling Ontario a "weaker sister" isn't gloating, then what is? If he'd just said the second part, fine, but I can't read the second statement as sincere after the first.
posted by Dasein at 8:28 PM on September 17, 2008


Oops. Fuck you, J-Run.
posted by Dasein at 8:29 PM on September 17, 2008


progressive conservative? i thought that party died ages ago. i think you mean 'reform party'.

seriously though, the Progressive Conservative Party was a right-centrist party that dissolved in 2003 and joined the Conservative Party of Canada which was forming with the Canadian Alliance Party (Reform) at the time. At one point they were called the Canadian Reform Alliance Party, or CRAP, which pretty much sums up our entire political situation in the Great White North.

if Obama doesn't make it to the big league I'll personally invite him up here to fix our mess, and show the jokers running the country a real politician.
posted by spish at 8:30 PM on September 17, 2008


Brian Tobin, why hast thou foresaken us.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:37 PM on September 17, 2008


Spish, provincial parties are not the same as federal parties. Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland.

Dasein - don't think of it as gloating, think of it as pride. For (I think) the first time in 100 years, Newfoundland is out of the hole, doing well for themselves, and an at least equal member of the Dominion. We're able to help, and that's something that deserves a little celebration.

As well, look at it from a political perspective. There is a not-insignificant section of Newfoundland that still thinks joining Canada was a bad idea and wants to separate. Williams' gloating is a rejection of the possibility of this.

Finally, look at the history.
It isn't the first time flags have been used in a fight with Ottawa over oil. In 1982, Newfoundland flew them at half-mast to protest negotiations with the federal government over oil.
When a student surpasses a teacher, the teacher can claim any future successes as their own.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:44 PM on September 17, 2008


Forgot to point out earlier:

Canada's vote swap scheme came out of knowledge of Nadertrading, a project run (well, sort of) by Scott Aaronson, who's all kinds of awesome. Since the U.S. courts seemed to uphold the legality of this, there might exist Americans who want to do the same with Bob Barr? Seems to fit well with the libertarian ethos. Much better than trying to block Obama/McCain from the ballot box, at least

Obviously, Barrgaining would be the title of this venture. Domain's free!
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:50 PM on September 17, 2008


Our politicians wear sweater vests, and I bet Barack Obama would have never had any troubles if he wore one, too!
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 9:12 PM on September 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


Danny Williams is just grandstanding for political pork and federal bribes but the Newfoundland economy was bad for so many years you can hardly blame him - and other provinces used this type of negotiating tactic for years. Williams is only accountable to the Newfoundland voters, and I wouldn't expect him to act in anything other than his own short-term best interests (like every single politician).

I shed no tears for the Progressive Conservatives... one of the most enduring images of my life was watching most of my former elected representatives led away in handcuffs, put through trials and thrown in jail. If you miss the PCs just look up Grand Devine on Wikipedia and you'll see why *I* don't mind dancing on their metaphorical corpse. Take note American mefites --- a new government can investigate and successfully prosecute the crimes of the old... I have seen it.

Vote-swapping or strategic voting in general is dangerous. Working on election campaigns I found that people often read their local political situation wrong - I saw plenty of examples of moderate left-wing voters (who in this situation would default to the NDP, a riding which had never elected a Liberal, ever) trying to prevent a Conservative MP from winning, vote Liberal, and weaken an NDP candidate enough to allow the Conservative to win on the vote split thus enabling the scenario they tried to prevent. This means ignoring the national news, the cbc, and figuring out whats going on in the community; most people really don't know. I advise everyone to vote for the person he/she really likes.
posted by Deep Dish at 9:51 PM on September 17, 2008 [2 favorites]


Thanks for that. I'm signed up.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:27 PM on September 17, 2008


(new Facebook had to be good for something)
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:27 PM on September 17, 2008


ugh. knew, even. time for bed.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:27 PM on September 17, 2008


@Lemurrhea - Thank You!

@Dasein - I Can't Read The Second Statement As Sincere As The First!
posted by mannequito at 10:59 PM on September 17, 2008


Danny Williams is an asshole. He...

Yeah, he's great, ain't he?

Today's Conservative fuck-up: Ag Minister Gerry Ritz cracks wise about listeriosis deaths during official conference call, saying "This is like a death by a thousand cuts. Or should I say cold cuts."

Following that "Amirite?"-worthy bon mot, the former ostrich farmer quipped after being told of a related death in Prince Edward Island, "Please tell me it's [Liberal Ag critic] Wayne Easter."

Naturally, both Ritz and Prime Minister Stephen Harper have made sincere and heartfelt apologies for the insensitive comments, which never would have been said if they thought anyone would hear about them.

The Conservative Party of Canada: Where "Sorry" is the easiest thing to say.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:27 PM on September 17, 2008


Hell, I'll admit that I love black humour. But sweet cockup of lockup, how could you say such a thing?

And here I always assumed I only disliked the Conservatives because of their policies. Silly me.
posted by Lemurrhea at 11:50 PM on September 17, 2008


So the little oil men are pissed that their provinces can't ignore oil income when begging for handouts? Such payments move money away from the people who paid it and might effectively use it. We ain't talking about "let's build telephone & internet wires" here either, these are payments the province pockets by running (inherently corrupt) development projects.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:17 AM on September 18, 2008


I was reading that vote-swapping story and just could not figure it out. Why would folks from Group 1 in one place switch votes with folks from Group 2 in another place so that Group 2 has a better chance of winning?

It took me practically forever before I realize that only America has that stupid fucking two-party system. There are more than two groups!
posted by shakespeherian at 12:24 AM on September 18, 2008


gman writes "I haven't seen a single Conservative sign. Only NDP, Liberal and Green. Either they don't have it together yet or my riding is trying to compensate for all the ugly blue areas outside 416/905."

Now that you mention it neither have I. Which is weird as the Conservatives went to the hassle of appointing the local candidate.
posted by Mitheral at 2:27 AM on September 18, 2008


Mitheral - what's weird is Parkside itself is usually lined with PC signs.
posted by gman at 4:14 AM on September 18, 2008


and your link goes to a PC candidate in Kamloops? I think the Highpark-Parkdale candidate is a lovely looking lady who was miraculously able to get her first name as her URL.
posted by gman at 4:18 AM on September 18, 2008


I thought the Highpark-Parkdale MP was Cheri diNovo (a really, really lovely lady I might add). Or is she the MPP? I haven't lived there in nearly a year.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:35 AM on September 18, 2008


Cheri DiNovo is Provincial. The Federal incumbent is Peggy Nash.
posted by gman at 4:42 AM on September 18, 2008


The only signs in my Quebec riding of Sherbrooke are for the BQ candidate, with a couple of NDP posters featuring Jack Layton -- no local candidate. It's fucking depressing is what it is.
posted by Shepherd at 4:51 AM on September 18, 2008


I received my special ballot yesterday. For those of you curious (I know I was when I first got one), people outside the country get a ballot that says, "I vote for _________." It's on special paper to defeat fraud. It goes inside an inner envelope (which has some instructions printed on it) which goes inside the outer envelope that you sign and which identifies you so they know you're eligible to vote, and then that goes inside the postal envelope. I love that the envelopes are way more complicated than the ballot.

The race in my riding (Dartmouth-Cole Harbour) probably won't be close enough for it to get counted, but it still feels good to vote. Sadly, unless the law changes, I won't be able to vote again - they cut you off after you've been out of the country for five years, which pisses me off because I still have the obligations of a citizen (for instance, I have to pay taxes if I make enough from Canadian sources).
posted by joannemerriam at 5:57 AM on September 18, 2008


The Federal incumbent is Peggy Nash.

Doh, right. Likewise a lovely lady, though. Last election she let me take up 20 minutes of her time while she was canvassing outside Dundas West station.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:40 AM on September 18, 2008


moderate left-wing voters who in this situation would default to the NDP

And people wonder why we love this country so much: social democrats are are 'moderates'.

My only regret this election is not being able to vote for Ed Broadbent again, but Paul Dewar (pax be with his mother) will do.
posted by bonehead at 7:11 AM on September 18, 2008


Ag Minister Gerry Ritz cracks wise about listeriosis deaths during official conference call, saying "This is like a death by a thousand cuts. Or should I say cold cuts."

I attended an industry banquet where Ritz was a speaker. He began his speech by announcing a snap election (this was back in February - the government-types I was sitting with simply stared in disbelief) as a "joke" and offered to fire anyone in his ministry who annoyed him (kind of a mean-spirited remark *at best* given that it was a social evening, and totally against protocol - ministers are not supposed to say things like that at a banquet).

So, yeah, this guy is a fuck up.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:23 AM on September 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


I think the best we can expect out of this election is another minority government. For that we can all thank the Liberals who, again, have managed to pick a leader who is liked neither in Quebec (because of his visceral and unnecessarily-personal attacks on sovereignists) and in the rest of Canada (most Canadians speak English, why can't Stéphane? Gilles Duceppe's English is vastly better).

The result? Tepid support for the Liberals all around, and surging support for the Cons among "soft sovereignist" Quebecers who don't see the point of voting Bloc. Quebec City and the Beauce are more than likely to vote Conservative. It's not because they like the right-wing views of Stephen Harper, it's because whenever the Libs are not strong in Quebec the Conservatives are seen as the traditional alternative. It happened in the early 80s and it's happening again today. I'm not optimistic about the Liberals' ability to defeat this trend, frankly.
posted by clevershark at 7:26 AM on September 18, 2008


Best we can hope for is a minority Conservative government. Dion would be turfed before the next election for not even making a minority and Harper would also be tossed for once again, only getting a minority.
posted by gman at 7:48 AM on September 18, 2008


Needs more IRV.
posted by Perplexity at 8:32 AM on September 18, 2008


I wish I lived in Quebec so I could vote for the bloc. If not for the whole lets split up the country thing they are the best party by far. Everyone seems so damn passionate compared to the politicians we have in English speaking Canada.

Is there anything like 538, but for Canadian politics & polls?
posted by chunking express at 8:34 AM on September 18, 2008


Sure, why not use every trick in the book to guarantee no Conservative majority? But let's take it farther than this. Let's use legal vote-swapping and all the relevant networking required to guarantee that NO Canadian political party ever has a majority. Ever.

Then we might just be on our way to that certain magical something that exists beyond so-called parliamentary democracy: a political never-never land where the electorate demands collaboration ON ALL ISSUES.
posted by philip-random at 8:57 AM on September 18, 2008


If you want a Liberal majority, vote for the Conservatives. A Conservative majority just about guarantees a Liberal majority in the next election.

Also, I want smaller less-intrusive gov't, less spending, and lower taxes. Who do I vote for?

that's a rhetorical question, I already know.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:36 AM on September 18, 2008


If you want a Liberal majority, vote for the Conservatives.

If you want the War on Drugs, the DMCA and a gradual end to reproductive freedom in Canada, vote for the Conservatives.
posted by clevershark at 9:45 AM on September 18, 2008 [2 favorites]


Clevershark is right. The conservatives are creepy as fuck. People don't need to be voting for them. They've done a pretty mediocre job since taking office. I'd hate to think what they'd have done had they a majority.

If you are a conservative, vote for the Liberals. If you are a liberal, vote for the NDP. I guess if you're fiscally conservative and liberal, you can vote for the Greens. And if you live in Quebec, vote for the Bloc.

There, now you know how to vote.
posted by chunking express at 10:16 AM on September 18, 2008 [2 favorites]


Also, I want smaller less-intrusive gov't, less spending, and lower taxes. Who do I vote for?

I am a strict left-libertarian who generally votes NDP. Sounds weird but here is my rationale: my libertarian/government hating side dislikes all the law and order talk from the Cons - its practically all my local candidate talks about, and consider them too authoritarian. The NDP right now is running on things like banking, cell phone, ATM fees being too high and high gas prices - not a bunch of nanny state policy... so its nothing I have a problem supporting. Fiscally on the lower spending/lower taxes front, NDP provincial governments have always been responsible with the exception of Bob Rae - and he is a Liberal. Roy Romanow in Sask actually cut taxes and balanced the budget, Manitoba has also had very good NDP governments.

The Liberals.. always run left, govern right. Too many corporate ties to appeal to a true libertarian, too many years spent region-baiting for a patriot, too much corruption and generally an unprincipled bunch of windsock candidates.
posted by Deep Dish at 10:37 AM on September 18, 2008


Vote-swapping or strategic voting in general is dangerous. Working on election campaigns I found that people often read their local political situation wrong

No problem in my city (or, really, province) - The land the election forgot.

I would be more than willing to vote NDP or Green here if it helps someone somewhere else in Canada elect a non-Tory. So, if you normally would vote NDP or Green, but voting Liberal is more strategic for your riding, let me know. Heck, if voting NDP or Green would be more strategic in your riding, I can vote Liberal. Anything to feel like I've done something other than register my frustration at living in such a deeply Conservative city.
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:54 AM on September 18, 2008


Someone set up a non-Facebook vote swapping page. Please? I had to use my girlfriend's account to even see what I was posting about.
posted by gman at 11:10 AM on September 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


Conservatives apologize for assistant to Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon's "sober" remarks to aboriginal protestor:

“If you behave and you're sober and there's no problems and if you don't do a sit down and whatever, I don't care,” said Mr. Cannon's assistant Darlene Lannigan to Mr. Matchewan. She then added: “One of them showed up the other day and was drinking.”

The article also lists missteps made by the other parties' candidates, but the Conservatives seem dead set on maintaining their lead in the 'Holy crap, are you really that stupid?' contest.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:30 AM on September 18, 2008


They also apologized for the jokes about the listeriosis deaths. The Torries are good at apologizing.
posted by chunking express at 12:27 PM on September 18, 2008


Also, from the article: "The Conservative Leader added that, while the remarks were insensitive, they were made during a private discussion." Because you know, calling someone a drunk-ass Indian, a Jew hating fag, or whatever else the Torries talk about in private, is A-OK.
posted by chunking express at 12:28 PM on September 18, 2008


The Tories are good at apologizing.

To be fair, they do get a lot of practice. What with the "Natives can come to rallies as long as they're not drunk" apology today, is this is number five or six since the election call last week. I've lost count.
posted by bonehead at 1:36 PM on September 18, 2008


No problem in my city (or, really, province) - The land the election forgot.

Alberta elections remind me of Saddam Hussein's elections... no group, party or individual in a properly functioning free and fair democracy should win by the margins that Tories do in Alberta. Somehow they do, and I don't suspect the Tories of anything but mild shenanigans...

Still, I would not want to see most of Canada engage in strategic voting..
posted by Deep Dish at 1:52 PM on September 18, 2008


Canada should be using an instant run off voting system already.
posted by chunking express at 2:02 PM on September 18, 2008


No Dice looks like a good resource for election stats.
posted by chunking express at 2:09 PM on September 18, 2008


Everyone seems so damn passionate compared to the politicians we have in English speaking Canada

Oh Jesus, forget passion. I'm tired of hearing about how boring Dion is. And hey, did you see what Harper's wife was wearing? And Gilles sure looks great in a cornflower blue tie.

French Canada cares about issues. Watch the French debates. They're quite illuminating -- not just for what our politicians say to French Canada that they don't, or won't, say to English Canada, but for the level of debate generally. Also watch everyone but Gilles speak in platitudes while he pounds them with facts and examples.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:32 PM on September 18, 2008


The Conservatives broke this Parliament and have shown complete contempt for its operation and for Canadians in general. They had a decent chance to govern and they issued a strategy manual to gum up the legislative infrastructure to do so. Anyone who thinks they deserve another chance to waste our time and money is nuts.

...and yes, they are no longer the Progressive Conservatives. The only thing progressive about them is the onset of their collective psychosis.
posted by salishsea at 4:17 PM on September 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


For (I think) the first time in 100 years, Newfoundland is out of the hole, doing well for themselves, and an at least equal member of the Dominion.

Psst - Newfoundland hasn't been in Canada for 100 years. It didn't join until 1949. The 60th anniversary is next year.

posted by jb at 4:42 PM on September 18, 2008


It's actually amazing to see people silly enough to believe anything the Conservatives tell them. Harper lied about his intention to steal the party from the Progressive Conservatives (when he was only the Alliance leader), he lied about not appointing people to the Senate (Fortier), he lied about not appointing unelected people to Cabinet (Fortier again), he lied about "fiscal responsibility" when the 2008 budget was tabled (it's been a veritable bonanza of spending since August) and he lied about fixed-date elections.

If Stephen Harper told me that grass was green and the sky is blue, I would have to go outside to check.
posted by clevershark at 4:44 PM on September 18, 2008


You Canadians! Your politics are much more fun.

. . . and not nearly as dangerous.
posted by Neiltupper at 9:38 PM on September 18, 2008


I wish I lived in Quebec so I could vote for the bloc. If not for the whole lets split up the country thing they are the best party by far. Everyone seems so damn passionate compared to the politicians we have in English speaking Canada.

I'm trying NOT to be the asshole American student, and so I've been talking to a lot of my friends here in Montreal about the upcoming election, and it's hilarious how many are like, man, I'd vote for the Bloc, but I'm afraid they might think I want another referendum! It's somewhat hilarious that the main reason for the Bloc's existence is the only thing a fair amount of my friends disagree with them on.
posted by 235w103 at 10:17 PM on September 18, 2008


« Older The "Crash at Crush"...  |  PMSbuddy.com... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments