He's been up all night listening to Mohammed's radio...

March 24, 2017 7:53 AM

Nuclear arms tests by Pyongyang / ICE is deporting everyone that they can / Israel’s ambassador says that Jews are Nazis / And President Bannon does whatever he please / Looks like another threat to world peace / Caused by the POTUS

China gets a spot at Mar-a-Lago / D.O.J got bought and wouldn’t do no mo’ / He’s got billionaire’s immunity / He’s a lethal weapon to democracy / Looks like another threat to world peace / Caused by the POTUS

Whenever there’s a crisis / Republicans send the POTUS in / He thinks he’s their “closer” / Without Russia he’d never win

The GOP wants to kill healthcare / But the AHCA isn't goin’ nowhere / The right wing wants to punish mommies / And Paul Ryan do whatever he please / Looks like another threat to world peace / By the POTUS / By the POTUS / Must impeach!

Sincere apologies to Warren Zevon.

posted by jferg (3170 comments total)

Thanks, jferg.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

If we're quoting Warren Zevon (as in the title), I suggest "Grandpa pissed his pants last night/He don't give a damn..."
posted by thelonius at 7:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

538 polling average shows continued erosion of Trump approval: now at -10 (42/52) for the first time.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Weber is a confirmed no this morning. Claudia Tenney (R-N.Y.), who was a yes, is undecided. Rodney Frelinghuysen, chairman of the appropriations committee, is a no.

Also, today is my birthday, so, let's do this. And by do this, I mean make Paul Ryan and Donald Trump look like fools.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [120 favorites]

If somehow this all causes Paul Ryan to lose his speakership I will be so happy and it will not be schadenfreude because there will be nothing shameful about it. I am avoiding sugar during Lent but if Paul Ryan steps down I will declare it a feast day and I will bake a celebratory cake and I will write Go to Hell Paul Ryan with icing in lovely cursive on the cake and then I will eat the cake.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [252 favorites]

we would also accept "send lawyers, guns, and money / the shit has hit the fan"
posted by murphy slaw at 7:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

It seems like only yesterday that Trump was basking in the quisling media's approval of his "pivot" -- which wasn't -- in his address to Congress.

As I noted in the previous thread, hings will get really interesting if the Democrats gain control of either house of Congress and, therefore, gain subpoena authority to investigate the Russian connection, to say nothing of various other facets of Trump's malfeasance and corruption.
posted by Gelatin at 8:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

thelonius: I thought about that one. I actually wanted to use "Everybody's desperate trying to make ends meet
Work all day, still can't pay the price of gasoline and meat", but it was too long. Warren has far too many applicable lyrics.
posted by jferg at 8:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Paul Ryan was in the House when the House burned down.
posted by EarBucket at 8:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Israel’s ambassador says that Jews are Nazis

Minor pedantry, offered without censure: should this not be, "the [new] US Ambassador to Israel says ... "-?
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

quidnunc: Yes, but I couldn't manage to make that scan with the song. Sacrifices for art, or something.
posted by jferg at 8:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Rodney Frelinghuysen, chairman of the appropriations committee, is a no.

I just want to highlight this. The Chair of Appropriations, which is to say the person who controls the purse strings of the federal government, one of the most powerful people in DC (and therefore in the world), a position that can only be occupied by a serious power player in the majority party, says "No."

There will be a bloodbath. Keep up the pressure.
posted by Etrigan at 8:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [88 favorites]

I can't decide whether it's better for this to succeed or fail. I'm leaning fail, but this albatross would presumably be helpful for 2018. Also, if the White House and Breitbart appear to be against it...

I'm so confused.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

We can't risk passage. Sure, I can construct a scenario that helps the Dems more, but only at serious risk of hurting lots of people. Kill it with fire, now.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

You know what makes an even better albatross than a shitty healthcare bill? A failed shitty healthcare bill.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [61 favorites]

Every time the thread gets "quiet" I breathe a sigh of relief and think "oh good, things are calming down," and every time it means a new thread has been opened up instead. :(

(Thanks for this, jferg, and to all of you for keeping me semi-sane.)
posted by mynameisluka at 8:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Also, if this thing goes down in flames, Paul Ryan's done, yes? If a Speaker can't pass the one thing that his party has been promising for 7 years, it's game over, right?

That leaves, what, Kevin McCarthy? He'd be third in line for the Presidency? That kinda matters more than usual now.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

it's no question to me that it must fail, because the consequences of it passing are not worth any number of democratic votes it might gain
posted by murphy slaw at 8:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yes, I would like me and many of my friends to keep having access to potentially life-saving healthcare through the Medicaid expansion please.
posted by overglow at 8:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

I can't decide whether it's better for this to succeed or fail. I'm leaning fail, but this albatross would presumably be helpful for 2018. Also, if the White House and Breitbart appear to be against it...

The enemy of my enemy can kiss my ass too.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

This is uh...interesting. Manafort has apparently volunteered to testify under oath.
posted by azuresunday at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

quidnunc: Yes, but I couldn't manage to make that scan with the song. Sacrifices for art, or something.

Oh - I see. You claim a musical justification, in accordance with long-hallowed principles of MetaFilter law. On such basis, may it please the MetaCourt and my learned friend: I apologise, I retract my motion of pedantry and submit an application to boogie, and/or woogie, as the case may be.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [41 favorites]

I heard on NPR that Trump said that if the boll doesn't pass today, he's done with it. I hope the Democrats are preparing attack ads for every single Republican in Congress juxtaposing this mess with Trump's grandiose campaign promises, hopefully punctuated with his signature tell, "believe me" and a smash cut to black.
posted by Gelatin at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [38 favorites]

I guess my takeaway from this thread is that Warren Zevon wrote Hamilton
posted by beerperson at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, right? If the AHCA passes out of the house today, here's a pretty good twitter-thread about what the Senate timeline and process would be, and what should/can be done to resist it at every step.
posted by penduluum at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

push a health care overhaul before unveiling a tax cut proposal

...but this is a tax cut.
posted by H. Roark at 8:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

Regarding Lil' Donald's Big Day, Jeopardy! legend and national treasure Ken Jennings tweeted: "tbh I'd be excited too if I just got my first semi in 25 years".
posted by dhens at 8:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [105 favorites]

This is uh...interesting. Manafort has apparently volunteered to testify under oath.

Well, it's not like the gop will ever move forward with a perjury indictment against a republican these days
posted by dis_integration at 8:14 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Way back in December I had briefly entertained the idea that what Trump would do is the sensible thing: fiddle with a few settings on the ACA, rebrand it as TrumpCare, and claim credit for it's success.

But I quickly realized, and I think now its proven, that was never anything but a pipe dream.

Yes, that would be the smartest thing they could do, but they are not capable of doing the smart thing due to ideology.

The ACA is a massive transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor. It is a massive example of government programs working. It is, in other words, anathema to the core positions of modern Republicanism.

They can't just fiddle a bit with it and claim it as their own. It isn't just the Teabaggers who won't stand for that, it's the whole party. You can't accept a tax and benefits program like the ACA if you're a Republican. Taxes must always go down, benefits must always shrink, and any sort of downward wealth transfer is always the Worst Thing Ever. So it doesn't matter what the smart thing to do is, they can't do it. They must slash taxes for hte rich, eradicate anything that takes money from the rich to benefit the poor, and therefore they must repeal and replace with basically nothing.

Upwards wealth transfer is not merely ok, but the divine duty of all true Republicans, and you'll notice that's exactly what the AHCA does. It steals from the poor and gives to the rich, so that's fine. Wealth transfer from poor people to rich people is not merely permissible but their holy duty, though they'd object strenuously to calling it wealth transfer. Sort of like how it isn't class war when the rich wage war on the poor, only when the poor fight back.

Which bring us to today and their almost guaranteed passage of a black box that does little but steal healthcare from the poor in order to give money to the rich. It doesn't matter if passing it is stupid, they'll pass it. They have to.

They can't let the ACA stand, if they fail to repeal it their voters will eat them alive, repealing it has been their sole reason for existence for seven years now. It's whistling past the graveyard to imagine they won't vote to get rid of it no matter how stupid that vote would be. Especially if they can kick the can down the road a bit so the voters will be less likely to blame them for the problems of repealing.

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.
posted by sotonohito at 8:15 AM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

we would also accept "send lawyers, guns, and money / the shit has hit the fan"

or how about... 'my shit's fucked up. the shit that used to work, it don't work no more'
posted by ian1977 at 8:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

If this is how he handles one of his party's signature policy proposals of the last decade, how is he going to hold up in an actual crisis? He isn't, that's how.

You're never going to see him wearing a helmet and standing on top of a pile of smoking rubble with a bullhorn. When his Katrina happens, the photo won't be him staring out the window of AF1 at the devastation with a look of vague concern: if there are any photos it'll be of him watching tv with the same blank amphibian expression as always. Remember Cheney's time in a "secure location?" It'll be like that, but indefinitely (save for the occasional tweet). He's going to make George W. Bush look like John McClane, if Bruce Willis had difficulty swallowing pretzels.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Another thread, and yet another drawing of the Donald, this one a bit older. What do you do when both faces of a two faced human being are equally hideous? Why, you draw them both!

As per usual, please feel free to share, or download, or what have you.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

"Brother Billy's got both guns drawn / he ain't been right since Vietnam" may also be thematically appropriate.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.

Can we bring back the img tag for this?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

yay, the white house is leaving nunes to twist in the wind:

Rep Swalwell "as I sit here tonight we have still NOT seen the evidence that Nunes took to WH first. We are DEMANDING to see it by tomorrow"
-- @aliasvaughn

Somewhere Nunes is realizing, when you're at the table with Trump, look for the Chris Christie.

If you don't see one, YOU'RE the Christie.
-- @jonrog1
posted by murphy slaw at 8:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [200 favorites]

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.

Appropriate. Eating cake while the world burns is a pretty good metaphor for middle class accelerationists in general.
posted by Talez at 8:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

Trump was on the radio arguing for passage in second grade level caveman-speak, so he's telling the base he's for it. He may also be leaking to the NYT to cover his ass and stll appear to be a non-moron. If this doesn't get out of the House, blaming the Dems is going to be rougher than it failing in the Senate. Fail Bigly!
posted by benzenedream at 8:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

beerperson: "I guess my takeaway from this thread is that Warren Zevon wrote Hamilton"

"Aaron Burr the headless musket gunner"
posted by Chrysostom at 8:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

They can't just fiddle a bit with it and claim it as their own. It isn't just the Teabaggers who won't stand for that, it's the whole party.

I agree they couldn't do that. There are any number of ways in which the ACA needed minor tweaks, and if the Republicans actually set out to improve the bill, the Democrats would be totally on board with that process. The Republicans wouldn't get to tweak and claim credit; at best, they'd be part of a bipartisan process to improve the bill they've been promising to burn to the ground for the past seven years. Their voters would never forgive them.

And as you (and Bill Kristol, in his infamous memo urging Republicans to join in lockstep opposition to Bill Clinton's efforts to reform health insurance) point out, that approach would simply validate the Democrats' point that government can provide benefits to voters. They can't have that.
posted by Gelatin at 8:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Manafort has apparently volunteered to testify under oath.

He's no dummy. You've seen the news about Putin's Russian enemies dying under mysterious circumstances lately, right? Well, if that's what Putin does to his opponents, imagine what he does to compromised former assets. I'm certain Putin has Manafort in his sights right now, and Manafort knows he'll be safest locked away in federal custody. Gorilla, you're a desperado.

And we need to stop the AHCA from passing, just so no more little old ladies are mutilated.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

Somewhere Nunes is realizing, when you're at the table with Trump, look for the Chris Christie.

If you don't see one, YOU'RE the Christie.

May all Nunes's lunches to come taste of Nixon Submission Meatloaf
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

And as you (and Bill Kristol, in his infamous memo urging Republicans to join in lockstep opposition to Bill Clinton's efforts to reform health insurance) point out, that approach would simply validate the Democrats' point that government can provide benefits to voters. They can't have that.

At this point it's pretty fucking obvious that government can provide benefits to voters. The question is whether people will continue to vote against it just to spite liberals.
posted by Talez at 8:22 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Meanwhile, at today's meeting on feline healthcare...(SLTwitter)
posted by Sophie1 at 8:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

a beaming Mr. Trump climbed into the rig of a black tractor-trailer
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

sotonohito: "Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here."

Are you also still predicting at least 20 Dem House votes for AHCA?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

You know what makes an even better albatross than a shitty healthcare bill? A failed shitty healthcare bill.

Always remember, however, to correctly tie the albatross 'round someone's neck.
posted by nubs at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017

Somewhere Nunes is realizing, when you're at the table with Trump, look for the Chris Christie.

If you don't see one, YOU'RE the Christie.

"Where's Reek?" ... uh-oh.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Manafort has apparently volunteered to testify under oath.

Are we sure about that "under oath" part? This Howard Dean/David Frum exchange on Twitter sounds like not under oath.
posted by dnash at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Here's hoping that today is the first concrete victory we've gotten since the depressing failure that was November 8.
posted by flatluigi at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Guys let's be nice to each other, if at all possible. And that's coming from someone who's been described as "the war rig."

I have sick faith in the Republicans ability to be both entirely craven and entirely corrupt, and so I won't be surprised if they pass this clusterfuck to the Senate. We will fight it wherever we have to. But I am damn well going to enjoy every ounce of pain it brings them, because, well, they're terrible people who are trying to make poor people suffer.

We can suit up and point and laugh at the same time.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

I believe Adam Schiff will be holding a press conference in a few minutes. Live feed here
posted by birdheist at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I've put together an analysis of the age of Supreme Court justices at the time of swearing in and life expectancy on my blog. Recent Republican president Supreme Court justices have been 3 years younger than the Democrat nominees and Gorsuch would be the fifth youngest among the set born since the beginning of 20th century (after Clarence Thomas, William Rehnquist, Potter Stewart and Byron White).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here's hoping that today is the first concrete victory we've gotten since the depressing failure that was November 8.

I want to remind us all of the MAJOR victory we succeeded in getting around the Muslim ban. We did that. We took to the airports. We (attorneys) sat at the airports all night arguing with CBP. We (protesters) fed and brought supplies to the attorneys. We (ACLU) argued at the courts that this MF was illegal as fuck and then we (people) donated 6x ACLUs annual donation rate to make that possible again and again if need be.

We DID that.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:28 AM on March 24, 2017 [201 favorites]

Our shit's fucked up. (Thanks, Warren)

If AHCA is rejected then won't Trump starve Obamacare into a death spiral before next year?
posted by surplus at 8:28 AM on March 24, 2017

Trump Has No Good Options On Health Care
And it’s his own fault.
posted by robbyrobs at 8:28 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Adam Schiff giving another excellent explainer/chronology.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

The ACA is a massive transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor. It is a massive example of government programs working. It is, in other words, anathema to the core positions of modern Republicanism.

The ACA has seemed for a long time like a somewhat less fucked situation than the pre-ACA state of affairs. An importantly less fucked situation, but I would characterize it more as "a massive example of government programs that could be considerably worse".

Of course this is anathema to the core positions of the GOP, which are in a nutshell: Things should be worse.
posted by brennen at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

At this point it's pretty fucking obvious that government can provide benefits to voters.

Paul Ryan is on record arguing against the ACA on the grounds that the young and healthy subsidize the poor and sick.

Which is, of course, how all insurance works, but to many Republicans it's an article of faith that the government can't do anything right, and certainly not better than the private sector.

If I thought they understood objective reality, I'd imagine that among of the roots of their hatred of the ACA is the fact that many of its flaws stem from its reliance on the private insurance market.
posted by Gelatin at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Schiff presser : Nunes' actions were "wholly inappropriate" and "cast grave doubts into the ability [of HPSCI] to run a credible investigation."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

If AHCA is rejected then won't Trump starve Obamacare into a death spiral before next year?

It still wouldn't be as bad as the shitty bill, and they'd absolutely get the blame for it.
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Once in a while I bake a cake to celebrate the removal of some malignant person from the world. The list used to be pretty short... Scalia, Kissinger, Cheney, Kim Jong-Il... Now? let's just say I need to start buying flour at Costco.
posted by benzenedream at 8:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

If AHCA is rejected then won't Trump starve Obamacare into a death spiral before next year?

And then what? They'll pass another bill?

/kermitdrinkingtea.jpg
posted by saturday_morning at 8:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Literally no one seems to know if it's going to pass.

If nothing else, I shall take pleasure in the epidemic of acid reflux sure to be sweeping through the shitty side of the aisle.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I have this pet theory that the current WTFness between Comey, Nunes/Schiff and the admin and the current WTFness of the Repeal-and-oh-will-you-poors-just-die-already Healthcare bill will-they-or-won't-they are actually connected - that Trump wants something in the bill that won't hit his base numbers too hard, or he'll veto the bill, and the GOP, specifically the Freedom-to-die Caucus, keep intimating to him that a)he's not very popular, so they don't really fear him or his legion of twitter followers and b)they could make his future life, not just his administration, very hard if he doesn't roll over, play ball, sign bills and get them their tax breaks, bathroom bills, and federal shock troops; cause jail is hard for a 70-year-old.

Oh, I know that it's not nearly that well thought out - that all of this is far from the truth, which is that the GOP is falling apart, splitting between the paymasters and the foot-soldiers, splintering at the edges, and it's been happening since the turn of the millennium, and it's not going to stop just because they're in power. But that's why it's a pet theory, not a working theory.
posted by eclectist at 8:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

If this is how he handles one of his party's signature policy proposals of the last decade, how is he going to hold up in an actual crisis? He isn't, that's how.

You're never going to see him wearing a helmet and standing on top of a pile of smoking rubble with a bullhorn. When his Katrina happens, the photo won't be him staring out the window of AF1 at the devastation with a look of vague concern: if there are any photos it'll be of him watching tv with the same blank amphibian expression as always.

I agree completely and it's made me wonder something : Could someone who is familiar with those Pepe meme people tell me if the reason they adopted it is because it looks like Trump?
posted by winna at 8:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Literally no one seems to know if it's going to pass.

Which means Republicans will be calculating what action will be least risky to their political careers, which I don't expect will translate into a sudden upswell of a support for a bill widely perceived as a stinker, and a doomed stinker at that.
posted by Gelatin at 8:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

@JohnJHarwood:

• senior WH aide on health vote today: "can't debate this for months on end. Next up, tax cuts"
• senior WH aide on health-care issue of bill goes down today: "the president will walk away. next battle"
• senior WH aide, asked if decisive health care defeat today is best for Team Trump: "100%"
• remember from Trump point of view: it's not HIM who's spent 7 years promising to repeal Obamacare, it's Congressional Rs. he's barely an R

This is exactly what Trump does when the shit hits the fan. He walks away, leaving his former partners holding the bag. Why did the Rump Republicans think they'd fare any differently?
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [114 favorites]

Schiff is just short of demanding an independent investigation and the abandonment of the congressional investigation as irreparably tainted.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

> May all Nunes's lunches to come taste of Nixon Submission Meatloaf

Can we all just promise to never put all the words in the last half of this sentence in close proximity with each other ever again? Like, they're perfectly fine words, good by themselves, good when used with lots of other words. But please, please don't put all of those specific words together with each other ever again.

Like, seriously people, phrasing. phrasing.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:38 AM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

HR 1628 (AHCA) is on the floor of the House now. 4 hours of debate, and then we all find out what happens.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

[starts singing "I want to be in the House when it happens/the House when it happens/the House when it happens.]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Schiff is just short of demanding an independent investigation and the abandonment of the congressional investigation as irreparably tainted.

What in the Actual Point Fuck is keeping him?
posted by Etrigan at 8:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

This is exactly what Trump does when the shit hits the fan. He walks away, leaving his former partners holding the bag.

I am very interested to see if political opinion works like this. My suspicion is that it does not.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Like, seriously people, phrasing. phrasing.

I stand by it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

remember from Trump point of view: it's not HIM who's spent 7 years promising to repeal Obamacare, it's Congressional Rs. he's barely an R

Except he has. From 2011: Donald Trump: ObamaCare Is Unconstitutional, Should Be Repealed
posted by melissasaurus at 8:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

What in the Actual Point Fuck is keeping him?

Maybe thinks he might as well take the opportunity to interview Manafort next week before walking away?
posted by saturday_morning at 8:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

May all Nunes's lunches to come taste of Nixon Submission Meatloaf

Can we all just promise to never put all the words in the last half of this sentence in close proximity with each other ever again?

But "Nixon Submission Meatloaf" is the ultimate Dead Kennedys deep cut!
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

The Trump administration wants to kill the popular Energy Star program because it combats climate change

Under President Trump, the Environmental Protection Agency is on the chopping block. Both the president’s proposed budget and his executive orders on cutting regulations would shrink the EPA. But of the 38 EPA programs that the Trump administration has proposed cutting, at least one is quite surprising: the popular — and voluntary — Energy Star program. It’s not a mandatory regulation, nor a “job killer.” We can only assume that it’s on the list because its strong connection with climate change mitigation.

posted by Existential Dread at 8:46 AM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

The thing that seems to differentiate Trump and R Congressmembers is that Trump is more concerned with how the legislation affects his personal wealth (so, his brand. also potentially his entanglements with Russia) while Congressmembers are more worried about the rest of the 0.1%. If tax cuts hurt his brand more than they help rich folks, well...
posted by R a c h e l at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I should clarify, Schiff stated all the reasons that he thinks that the independent investigation is required, he just didn't sit on the floor and say that he's not standing up until the congressional investigation is dissolved.

I suspect he's just trying to appear painfully reasonable and even-handed to make the republicans look irrational and partisan for refusing to do so.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Which means Republicans will be calculating what action will be least risky to their political careers, which I don't expect will translate into a sudden upswell of a support for a bill widely perceived as a stinker, and a doomed stinker at that.

• senior WH aide on health vote today: "can't debate this for months on end. Next up, tax cuts"
• senior WH aide on health-care issue of bill goes down today: "the president will walk away. next battle"
• senior WH aide, asked if decisive health care defeat today is best for Team Trump: "100%"
• remember from Trump point of view: it's not HIM who's spent 7 years promising to repeal Obamacare, it's Congressional Rs. he's barely an R

No better signal to back away from this thing. Trump effectively already has.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

If somehow this all causes Paul Ryan to lose his speakership

The Speaker fight would involve knives, at a point it's two steps from an easily impeachable White House.
posted by corb at 8:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

trying to appear painfully reasonable and even-handed to make the republicans look irrational and partisan for refusing to do so

oh HONEY
posted by saturday_morning at 8:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

This is exactly what Trump does when the shit hits the fan. He walks away, leaving his former partners holding the bag.

I am very interested to see if political opinion works like this. My suspicion is that it does not.

Same here. Trump's always going to have his diehard supporters, but for the rest of those who vote R, he can only go around saying "We're gonna replace X with something beautiful" or "X complex problem stops RIGHT NOW" or "I hate X, until I demonstrate that I love it" for so long, before they've had enough.

For those people, I hope "Believe me" becomes shorthand for "bullshit," sooner rather than later.
posted by Rykey at 8:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

*turns on C-SPAN*
posted by beerperson at 8:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [77 favorites]

I suspect he's just trying to appear painfully reasonable and even-handed to make the republicans look irrational and partisan for refusing to do so.

I admire the sentiment, I truly do, but when has that ever worked in the history of the Republican Party?
posted by lydhre at 8:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

You've seen the news about Putin's Russian enemies dying under mysterious circumstances lately, right? Well, if that's what Putin does to his opponents, imagine what he does to compromised former assets.

Is anybody running a book on the life expectancy of a certain Mr. Assange?
posted by acb at 8:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

we would also accept "send lawyers, guns, and money / the shit has hit the fan"

"And everybody knew/He was with the Russians, too"
posted by stevis23 at 8:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

While we've all been trying to follow the goings-on with the AHCA, Nunes, and Trump's seemingly endless supply of daily outrages, this happened:

This week, President Donald Trump quietly appointed anti-LGBTQ activist Roger Severino to lead the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Civil Rights (OCR), an office whose work he has actively opposed.

In his previous role as Director of the DeVos Center for Religion and Civil Society for the Heritage Foundation, Severino spoke out against the civil rights protections he will now be tasked with upholding and supported the wholesale repeal of the Affordable Care Act.

“By appointing Mr. Severino to enforce the life-saving protections that he has made his personal mission to dismantle, the Trump administration has once again put the fox in charge of the hen house,” said Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE), in a statement.

posted by tonycpsu at 8:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [95 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives, at a point it's two steps from an easily impeachable White House.

Well, after the 2016 we just endured, I'd say the least the Congressional Republicans owe us now is a no-holds-barred knife fight on CSPAN.
posted by Mayor West at 8:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

-artist's conception-
posted by the phlegmatic king at 8:53 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

I would read this Borges story
posted by middleclasstool at 8:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

-animated conception-
posted by Servo5678 at 8:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

In health-but-not-health-care/insurance related news (with a hefty side of dogwhistle and obvious, straight-up lying, the treasury secretary had this to say about his boss:

“He’s got perfect genes,” Mnuchin gushed to Allen. ”He has incredible energy, and he’s unbelievably healthy.” The former Goldman Sachs banker turned movie producer turned foreclosure mogul also noted that Trump, known for his love of McDonald’s and K.F.C., no longer eats that stuff because the White House food “is great.”

Seems like that Nixon Submission Meatloaf is POTUS and Treasury approved.

source: vanityfair
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Senator Patty Murray: I will be voting against the nomination of Judge Neil Gorsuch, and I will oppose a cloture motion ending debate. -PM

If Judge Gorsuch can’t get 60 votes, Republicans shouldn’t change the rules, they should change the nominee. http://bit.ly/2nvIlDW #SCOTUS
posted by Existential Dread at 8:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [64 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

-reenactment-
posted by leotrotsky at 9:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

“He’s got perfect genes,”

Firstly: that's Hitler talk.
Secondly: Demonstrably false both in the case of Trump and Hitler, and additionally all the hideous Trump-spawn.
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Watching the House mull this over, I can't help but re-cast them all as frat boys undergoing initiation. The final step to join up is to blindly eat whatever is on the plate. The ceremonial velvet napkin is lifted. The inductees crowd. They look down. The shiny silver plate presents a pile of shit. Dog? Human? Someone gags. It could have been Marmite. Moldy eggs. Maggots. Nails. Anything, anything but...this. Someone else gags. Maybe the price of admission is too high.

It's been eight years. They really shouldn't have phoned this one in. Even happily goosestepping Republicans have their limits.
posted by erinfern at 9:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

I kind of think the fight would look more like this - some deplorable R trying his luck on Ryan's carcass...

They're the Party of Lincoln, right? BROADSWORDS IN A PIT
posted by Mayor West at 9:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

“He’s got perfect genes,”

This was a typo. He's got perfect JEANS. Really nice Jordache pair he's kept since the 80s.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

I would read this Borges story

Celestial Emporium of Terrific Knowledge

∙Failing Things
∙The Art of the Deal
∙Low Energy People
∙Ivanka
∙Radical Islamic Terrorism
∙Golf
∙306 Electoral College Votes
∙Foods that taste good with Ketchup
∙Vladimir Putin
posted by leotrotsky at 9:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

If AHCA is rejected then won't Trump starve Obamacare into a death spiral before next year?

By what mechanism? All the funding levers on the ACA are held by Congress, as far as I know. There's no executive branch agency that he can refuse to fill vacancies in.

Ryan might try to starve it, but that's different. I suspect that, if he's not challenged for the speakership, he'll want to move on and pretend this fiasco didn't happen.

Is anybody running a book on the life expectancy of a certain Mr. Assange?

I don't think Assange knows anything that would make him a threat. He's been too carefully managed so far.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I kindof think the fight would look more like this - some deplorable R trying his luck on Ryan's carcass...

In death we shall be together always
posted by Existential Dread at 9:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Watching the House mull this over, I can't help but re-cast them all as frat boys undergoing initiation

They're definitely talking and acting like they've consumed a zillion beers.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:08 AM on March 24, 2017

I'm in MI11, home of "Guy Who Looks Like Judge Reinhold Playing  A Villain," Michigan's Foreclosure King, Dave Trott. He whose aide was caught on a hot mic wanting to accuse town hall protestors of acting unpatriotic.

No one could be bothered to answer his DC office phone this a.m., so here's an approximation of a fax and FB post I submitted:

Your staff didnt  answer the phone at 10:30, so this is to state my extreme opposition to tRump/ryancare, and support for Pres. Obama's ACA, under which I have been able to have healthcare for the past three years.

I am a resident of MI11. I am not a "paid protestor." I also wish my highly decorated WWII vet dad was still here so he could know your weasly staff have accused people like me of being "unpatriotic." Because he - who fought Nazis, and didnt exist in the same political party with Nazis - would also have opposed the vast majority of your agenda./

__
Oh, and people here who dont know if they want this to fail NOW? Yeah, remember when people voted for Stein cos Hillary was gonna win anyway?

__
On another note, I hate how Gorsuch is being lost in all this. (Not to mention, let's keep our eye on the Big Treason Ball.) I've started watching Trevor Noah again, and he tried to cover the SCOTUS nominee a couple nights ago. (Altho both TDS and I think Seth Meyers  have actually made bits re: how there's too many sh*tshows at once.)
posted by NorthernLite at 9:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Funnily enough just yesterday on FB I commented that I'd like to just send both the Koch Bros and Trump to the fighting pits of Mereen. I'd be on board for that solution to any House Speaker vacancies as well.

[I just finished rewatching all of Game of Thrones last night (mild spoilers). I nearly cried at the end remembering all of the KHALEESI IS COMING TO WESTEROS memes from the final days of the election. Meanwhile, here in King's Landing, Mad King Bannon is just going to blow up the sept with all of us in it.]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Regarding Lil' Donald's Big Day, Jeopardy! legend and national treasure Ken Jennings tweeted: "tbh I'd be excited too if I just got my first semi in 25 years".

hahahaha holy shit
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

They've already filmed this - just go watch The Dark Crystal again and keep your eyes open.

[because there's never been a better comparison between peaceful trudging harmonious but defenseless creatures versus spiteful backstabbing shrill horrific monsters than the Democrats vs Republicans urRu vs Skeksis. I'll leave it up to you to determine who's really the Jen in this story (bonus points for Aughra).]
posted by komara at 9:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

benzenedream: Once in a while I bake a cake to celebrate the removal of some malignant person from the world. ... Now? let's just say I need to start buying flour at Costco.

Fans of the original Bugle Podcast may remember their "Fuck You-logy" to Osama Bin Laden and, later, to a few other of the world's worst humans. If you want some (sadly beeped) inspiration while you bake and do the washing up, the 7-minute clip of that piece is on YouTube here.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I did a bunch volunteer work for HRC and my state Democrats during the election, so 11/8 and 11/9 felt particularly bitter. However, yesterday, I pulled out my Election 2016 buttons and, for the first time, didn't feel crushing sadness while looking at them.

As Frowner noted in the previous thread:

We've got to try to live in the heroic mode now, I think - not in the sense of "let's storm the capitol" but in the sense of "I am acting for history and for what is right, even knowing that these are bad times and we will take losses". The only way to conceptualize these times that works for me is that we are struggling against evil, and history will remember.

So yeah, thanks to all of you who hang out in these threads for being my political support group and continually inspiring me to resist in heroic mode.

P.S. Frowner--I hope someday that I can become as wise as you. I always look forward to your comments :).
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [99 favorites]

if Paul Ryan steps down I will declare it a feast day and I will bake a celebratory cake and I will write Go to Hell Paul Ryan with icing in lovely cursive on the cake and then I will eat the cake.

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.

Can I get in on the Affordable Cake Act too?
posted by rouftop at 9:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump, known for his love of McDonald’s and K.F.C., no longer eats that stuff because the White House food “is great.”

What? He's not even at the White House every day of the week, and even if he were, you don't go from "I'm Lovin' It" to "unbelievably healthy" in 60 days. I used to think these people were in a contest to see who could tell the most lies; now I'm convinced they're in a contest to see who can tell the dumbest lie.
posted by Rykey at 9:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Mod note: One comment removed, animal kingdom or no let's maybe skip the rando corpse pics.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

rando corpse pics wtf
posted by R.F.Simpson at 9:18 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Timothy Caughman, the Other Terror Victim: Mr. Trump is easily provoked to outrage. But he seems unable to summon that emotion on behalf of Mr. Caughman, who was poor and black and lived in a shelter for homeless people with H.I.V. and AIDS. Maybe he’s not that kind of president. So the next best thing is to turn to his predecessor Barack Obama, who confronted senseless violence with healing words again and again. In January he said this, to a Chicago TV news station:

“We don’t benefit from pretending that racism doesn’t exist and hate doesn’t exist. We don’t benefit from not talking about it. The fact that these things are being surfaced means we can solve them. But over all, what I’ve seen as president in traveling around the country is, particularly, the next generation, young people, their appreciation of people who are different than them, come from different places, have different backgrounds, my daughter’s generation, they’re far more sophisticated about race, far more tolerant and embracing of diversity. So I think that over the long arc, America will keep on getting better.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

In walks the village idiot, and his face is all aglow
posted by Meatbomb at 9:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Any cook worth their salt can make a picture-perfect big mac. I know because I've done it. I'm sure Cristeta can do just the same.
posted by valkane at 9:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ryan is on his way to the WH to brief POTUS. Per many anonymous Hill sources the current whip count is not looking good for him.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

I just realized that the ACA gutted DSH on the assumption that expanded Medicaid and universal insurance would lower the rate of uncompensated care. Are the Republicans readjusting the DSH levels on the back of gutting the ACA or are we literally going to see bankrupt hospitals?

The Republican AHCA plan restores DSH payments to hospitals for uncompensated care. Obamacare cut these payments because everyone was supposed to have insurance. Except the Republican states refused the Medicaid expansion money so they had lots of uncompensated care and hospitals were facing failure.

So the AHCA goes back to the 90s, reducing Medicaid and restoring DSH payments for uncompensated care. It's back to the future -- "if you can't afford a doctor, just go to the emergency room."
posted by JackFlash at 9:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

You know what? Paul Ryan's ears annoy me. I've seen so many pictures of his stupid face with his stupid googly eyes, but it's the ears that get me every time. No woman politician could rise in the ranks without having surgery to make her ears stick out less, much less rise in the ranks while being known for good looks.

I hate that I now know what all these awful people look like. I could be filling my memory with images of indelible beauty and sophistication, but instead I know what Paul Ryan looks like in workout clothes.
posted by Frowner at 9:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

CBS WH correspondent: Mulvaney to @SpeakerRyan when informed he didn't have votes for #Obamacarerepeal -- "The president doesn't care. The president wants a vote"
posted by Chrysostom at 9:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

This Bill Murray gif sums up all my feelings about the failures of Trump/Ryan/AHCA/etc.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

DJT wants a vote so he knows who to add to his Enemies List.
posted by Superplin at 9:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

Metafilter: Lets maybe skip the rando corpse pics.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:34 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Anyone who isn't in Trump's immediate family is already on his enemies list -- he wants the vote so he knows how many tiers to move the "nays" up.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sometimes instead of thinking how screwed we are that we're not in Trump Lost timeline, I comfort myself with thinking how glad I am we're not in Competent Nazi Timeline and just have to content with Keystone Nazi Timeline.
posted by corb at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [85 favorites]

I wonder what the last bill was that actually was voted down on final passage (and not under 2/3 suspension of the rules). I'd imagine we see a motion to recommit, if it's allowed under the rule.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2017

> DJT wants a vote so he knows who to add to his Enemies List.

He's making a list, he's checking it twice - who are the Republicans getting lumps of coal in their stockings come November 2018? But if he goes this route, it torpedoes the rest of his (p)residency.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2017

Ow oooo
posted by jonmc at 9:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Warren might have loved Trump. In his biography, he says he's to the right of Reagan. Of course, he also seemed like a guy who might say stuff simply to get a reaction.

Complicated guy and a great songwriter. Sorry for this post and thanks for the new thread.
posted by orange ball at 9:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

God, that Major Garrett tweet is making me feel such glee. I love that these jackhole GOP congress guys are now directly, finally, feeling the result of Trump's weird insane machismo.
posted by something something at 9:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Lumps of coal would just be considered proof of MAGA
posted by erisfree at 9:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

I feel like there's more than enough to discuss with regards to the things people say, even politicians, and the actions they take without insulting physical appearance. Start walking down that road and you end up with things like racist Obama hate. Everybody who follows politics is stressed but we can do better than this.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 9:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I feel like there's more than enough to discuss with regards to the things people say, even politicians, and the actions they take without insulting physical appearance

True enough - in fairness, it's not the actual fact of his ears that I hate, it's that every time I see a picture of him, I think about how harshly women are judged and how many conservatives I've heard praise his appearance, fitness, etc.
posted by Frowner at 9:45 AM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Confusion over essential health benefits
House Republicans should look before they leap. Even if they’re on board with the amendment’s goals, its actual language is a train-wreck. If it becomes law, the individual insurance market will likely collapse nationwide in 2018. Its fate after that will be highly uncertain.

Why you don't write a bill that overhauls the entire health care system in a single night and try to pass it 12 hours later. Even if you knew what you were doing, legislative drafting is hard and some proofreading might be prudent.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:46 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm conflicted about the Trump Disintegration. On the one hand "Fuck em". On the other hand "Fuck me".
posted by srboisvert at 9:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

"He's got perfect JEANS. Really nice Jordache pair he's kept since the 80s."

Oh, Jesus, please, please don't. My eyes.

I think I'll go have a long, cleansing look at that entrails portrait from the previous thread.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Make sure your cake recipe includes Republican tears.
posted by overglow at 9:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

You know what? Paul Ryan's ears annoy me. I've seen so many pictures of his stupid face with his stupid googly eyes, but it's the ears that get me every time. No woman politician could rise in the ranks without having surgery to make her ears stick out less, much less rise in the ranks while being known for good looks.

I hate that I now know what all these awful people look like. I could be filling my memory with images of indelible beauty and sophistication, but instead I know what Paul Ryan looks like in workout clothes.

Those ears are actually a side effect of the second disc of P90X. There are some spine flexibility contortions involving tension bands hooking onto your ears that ultimately give you the ability to shove your own head right up your ass. The problem is that nobody gets any further in the DVDs because once you're in that position you can no longer follow the DVDs.
posted by srboisvert at 9:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

Surely what he'd have is a great vintage pair of BAD IDEA jeans.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:53 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

What? He's not even at the White House every day of the week, and even if he were, you don't go from "I'm Lovin' It" to "unbelievably healthy" in 60 days.

I dunno, maybe he just hasn't had the time to send the limo for takeout.

No woman politician could rise in the ranks without having surgery to make her ears stick out less, much less rise in the ranks while being known for good looks.

When it comes to politicians, we have lowered expectations in the looks department. (Plus, man.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:53 AM on March 24, 2017

MSNBC: VP Pence has arrived at Capitol Hill Club where Freedom Caucus is meeting - last ditch effort to win his former colleagues' votes
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:54 AM on March 24, 2017

Another previously uncommitted Rep., Barbara Comstock (R-VA), is a no
posted by saturday_morning at 9:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

@stevebruskCNN: GOP source tells @DanaBashCNN Speaker Ryan is telling the President they don't have the votes as of now, and asking what he wants him to do

This is some serious alpha shit here. MAGA!
posted by Existential Dread at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [38 favorites]

Make sure your cake recipe includes Republican tears.

OMG please no, you're bringing down the wrath of the thing from high atop the whatever. (I had a bottle of Coke Zero that I printed out a label for that said "Fascist Tears" all ready to go for election eve Dorito and Coke celebrations. I'm having flashbacks.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

"The president doesn't care. The president wants a vote"

"Trumpie hears ya. Trumpie don't care."
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Daydream: Trump pushes for a vote because he's a giant toddler, there's a vote, whole thing goes down in flames.
posted by Frowner at 9:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I am avoiding sugar during Lent but if Paul Ryan steps down I will declare it a feast day and I will bake a celebratory cake and I will write Go to Hell Paul Ryan with icing in lovely cursive on the cake and then I will eat the cake.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl

Mrs. P, please remember to bring enough to share!
posted by BlueHorse at 9:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Speaker Ryan is telling the President they don't have the votes as of now, and asking what he wants him to do

Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
posted by saturday_morning at 9:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [93 favorites]

Paul Ryan's ears annoy me. I've seen so many pictures of his stupid face with his stupid googly eyes, but it's the ears that get me every time

I'll admit, I used to think Ryan was a stone cold fox, and now even were I single, I wouldn't fuck him with a ten foot pole. But it has nothing to do with his ears, which are honestly perfectly fine, but the fact that he's a goddamn Nazi collaborator. That's ugly enough without going looking for any other flaws.
posted by corb at 9:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

erisfree: Lumps of coal would just be considered proof of MAGA

Well, there'll be enough recipients that it could explain the pledge to get all those coal miner back to work.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:00 AM on March 24, 2017

Sen Udall (D-NM), other Ds, intro bill requiring disclosure of visitor logs at the WH and other locations Trump regularly conducts business. (unlike in the Obama admin, the WH visitor logs have not been posted online since 1/20)

The bill is called the Making Access Records Available to Lead American Government Openness (MAR-A-LAGO) Act
posted by melissasaurus at 10:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [220 favorites]

That feeling when you're happy and excited to toast marshmallows in front of the fire, even though the small voice in the back of your head is telling you that it's a raging forest fire that will unfortunately burn your house down anyway.

> Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?

See? That's exactly what I mean. I'm giggling, but existential dread is lurking in the background.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

[lurking intensifies]
posted by Existential Dread at 10:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [177 favorites]

> The bill is called the Making Access Records Available to Lead American Government Openness (MAR-A-LAGO) Act

Oh, bravo! Well done with the trolling. Almost as good as "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism" Act.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's feeling an awful lot like November 8th. Things are looking good, and that's terrifying. Ryan going to the White House to explain he doesn't want to put the bill on the floor if he doesn't have the votes (and right now, he doesn't, he's gonna need Congressional approval and he doesn't have the votes) is hilarious.

Yesterday, someone asked what AARP was doing. Turns out they're bringing it with the constituent calls! Reps have been reporting they're getting calls against the bill 1000:1.

Spicey time is a bit early today. It's supposed to start now; who knows when Spicer will show up.
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

So, on a totally different subject: SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

In the PA 197th House special, the R candidate managed to only get 7.4% of the vote...despite being the only candidate on the ballot. The D candidate has won as a write-in (there were a bunch of shenanigans about the previous rep being indicted, and people filing too late, resulting in only the R on the ballot).

The Green candidate has indicated she's suing, but that's unlikely to get far. Dem hold in this one.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [92 favorites]

Rodney Frelinghuysen, chairman of the appropriations committee, is a no.

I just want to highlight this. The Chair of Appropriations, which is to say the person who controls the purse strings of the federal government, one of the most powerful people in DC (and therefore in the world), a position that can only be occupied by a serious power player in the majority party, says "No."

He didn't get there on his own. One of my closest friends is on the steering committee for NJ 11th For Change, a group of Frelinghuysen's constituents who've been working tirelessly to hold him to account. Hundreds of constituents go to his office every Friday, they've held multiple town halls without the Congressman, they're getting together a fleet of buses to go to his office down in DC. And they're going to support a Democrat running against him, Frelinghuysen's first real challenger in years.

The fight to take back the house in 2018 has already started and is already having an impact.
posted by galaxy rise at 10:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [98 favorites]

Another previously uncommitted Rep., Barbara Comstock (R-VA), is a no

She's my rep, a moderate in a district that Clinton won by double digits. She is quite cagey about trying to rhetorically distance herself from the rest of the crazies but not actually voting any different from them. So that's a bad sign for this iteration of repeal-n-replace.
posted by peeedro at 10:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

CNN reporting right now that Ryan will ask Trump what to do next, telling him they don't have the votes.

If Ryan wasn't a total failure of human existence, he could make his own decisions, Congress is a co-equal branch of government capable of setting the agenda on its own. He could pull this bill and go back to the drawing board, or not. He could move on to tax cuts, or literally any other thing in the universe. Congress does not have to wait on the President's word or follow his suggested agenda.

But Ryan is above all else, a hack who has failed upwards his entire life. He's never accomplished anything other than getting himself elected, and arguably his hair did most of that work. He has no legislative achievements. His signature items have all been hack budgets that were totally unworkable and fundamentally innumerate, none of which ever came close to passing. He's never marshaled a congressional consensus on anything. He got the Speaker's gavel literally because he was the only one who would take it, and has passed basically nothing since taking over, certainly nothing of any consequence that he organized on his own without Bohener's help. He's been in Congress for almost 20 years, and has almost nothing to show for it at all. He quite literally doesn't know how to pass bills. Or how to run the House.

Ryan's Congressional career is strikingly similar to Trump's business career, and Trump's was probably superior by virtue of his talent for getting (Russian) people with far more money and success than him to bail him out.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

> It's feeling an awful lot like November 8th.

I get that feeling as well. Also, like...this is a terrible bill. It's actual garbage. If it DOES fail, I feel like Ryan (or somebody waiting in the wings) will unveil a less garbage plan that will be greeted with thunderous applause because it only increases the number of uninsured Americans by 12 million.
posted by Tevin at 10:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I have a terrible feeling that Ryan's head is going to come rolling out of the Oval Office door.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 10:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Pleaseopleaseopleaseopleaseoplease let this vote go forward and crash and burn in a spectacular fireball of Trump-o-Republican incompetence o pleaseopleaseoplease
posted by darkstar at 10:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Boy, you'd think a president with 37% approval touting a bill with 17% approval would have more clout.

GOP NV Rep Amodei a nay on health care bill. On threat by Trump, says "I'm willing to take that risk."
posted by chris24 at 10:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

Paul Ryan doesn't have the votes
posted by mhz at 10:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Fuckups from fucked up places trying to implement their fucked up ideology and fucking up.

I feel like there is some sort of common thread....
posted by srboisvert at 10:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's feeling an awful lot like November 8th.

At least Sam Wang isn't predicting a 99% chance that the AHCA will be voted down.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

I have a terrible feeling that Ryan's head is going to come rolling out of the Oval Office door.

Your autocorrect got confused about "terrific".
posted by howfar at 10:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

Speaking of polls....

A new Quinnipiac poll finds American voters oppose the spending cuts listed in President Trump’s proposed federal budget, including 70% to 25% against eliminating the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

By wide margins, however, American voters say other proposed cuts are a bad idea:

87% to 9% against cutting funding for medical research;
84% to 13% against cutting funding for new road and transit projects;
67% to 31% against cuts to scientific research on the environment and climate change;
83% to 14% against cutting funding for after school and summer school programs;
66% to 27% against eliminating the National Endowment for the Arts and the National Endowment for the Humanities;
79% to 17% against eliminating the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program.

Now, of course, people say they are opposed to stuff all the time, and then don't do anything about it. But these are some *really* bad numbers.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [68 favorites]

If it DOES fail, I feel like Ryan (or somebody waiting in the wings) will unveil a less garbage plan that will be greeted with thunderous applause because it only increases the number of uninsured Americans by 12 million.

This is a fair concern, but like, if there was a less horrible bill to be had here that would satisfy both the Freedom Caucus assholes and the "moderate" assholes, they'd have it on the floor right now.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

PA 197th is super Democratic Philly so it would have been extreme fuckery if the Republican could have pulled it out. But I'm glad to hear that even with the write-in nonsense, the line was held easily.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump demanding a vote is interesting in that sense. The last time there was vote when everyone thought he was going to lose, there was a big surprise, and he hasn't been able to stop talking about his victory ever since. Maybe he thinks that will happen every time.
posted by zachlipton at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

I have a terrible feeling that Ryan's head is going to come rolling out of the Oval Office door.

But it won't roll very well, on account of the ears.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [49 favorites]

If there is a failure of repeal, then there will be active active poisoning of the Affordable Care Act by Congress and the Executive Branch, with that shit eating smugness of them standing around the body saying "see, told you it was failing".
posted by dglynn at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

At least Sam Wang isn't predicting a 99% chance that the AHCA will be voted down.

Fun story where real life and thread life collide, I got to shoot Sam for a magazine feature this week. And he was willing to pretend to eat a cereal bowl of bugs for it. I can't show images until it runs, but he was a really nice, cool guy.
posted by chris24 at 10:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

Fun story, I got to shoot Sam

phrasing...
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ah, another reminder that Pennsylvania has more than 197 assembly districts -- 203 to be exact -- which is ridiculous. They've been trying to pass a bill to cut that down, but it turns out that it's hard to get people to support something that will have an adverse effect on their job security.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

@sahilkapur: Message from a GOP aide: 'Comstock is a no. It's over.'

That being said, Yogi Berra's advice is still worth it, folks: it ain't over till it's over. Keep calling your representatives.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

No answer earlier at the office of PA-12's Keith Rothfus. Left a message, but I think he was probably leaning no anyway given the way the tides have turned over the past 48 hours.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:14 AM on March 24, 2017

I have a terrible feeling that Ryan's head is going to come rolling out of the Oval Office door.

He made his bed, now he gets to lie in it.

I keep on thinking about how he sucked up to Trump during the election cycle, despite the fact that Trump was supporting the tea partier that was primarying him. I keep on thinking about how he could have just kept his distance.

If there is a failure of repeal, then there will be active active poisoning of the Affordable Care Act by Congress and the Executive Branch, with that shit eating smugness of them standing around the body saying "see, told you it was failing".

They've already started with this.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:14 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

If there is a failure of repeal, then there will be active active poisoning of the Affordable Care Act by Congress and the Executive Branch, with that shit eating smugness of them standing around the body saying "see, told you it was failing".

And the response will be, correctly: "You control literally the entire government. Fix it."
posted by saturday_morning at 10:15 AM on March 24, 2017 [54 favorites]

soren_lorensen: "PA 197th is super Democratic Philly so it would have been extreme fuckery if the Republican could have pulled it out. But I'm glad to hear that even with the write-in nonsense, the line was held easily."

Oh yeah, I think the Ds have a 95/5 edge in voter registration (so, in that sense, the R over-performed). But any time you depend on a write-in, particularly when the candidate's name (Vazquez) has more than one plausible spelling....

So, that one checked off. Next is KS-4 on April 11. That isn't likely to go so hot.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:16 AM on March 24, 2017

tonycpsu: "No answer earlier at the office of PA-12's Keith Rothfus. Left a message, but I think he was probably leaning no anyway given the way the tides have turned over the past 48 hours."

Craven as always.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:18 AM on March 24, 2017

The Speaker fight would involve knives

Butch: "Well, if there ain't gonna be any rules, let's get the fight started. Someone count '1, 2, 3, go.'"
Sundance: "123Go."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

No answer earlier at the office of PA-12's Keith Rothfus.

Fucker better be working on The Doors of Stone.
posted by Etrigan at 10:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Every big loss for Trump is a good loss. Every split among the Republicans is a good split. We can't sit around thinking "if they loose this, they'll just win with something worse". For one thing, the longer things take and the madder the public gets - and the more informed the public gets - the worse things are for them.

If they actually walked all this stuff back, didn't push for the giant tax cuts, got Trump under control, passed an average, moderately stingy Republican budget, dialed back on immigration, etc - in short, ran things like an average Republican administration - they wouldn't be in trouble at midterms. But honestly, I think that if they keep on with their agenda, even if they don't succeed with much of it, they're in trouble. They are now the party of "cut medical research" and "get rid of Elmo" and "make old people pay $20,000 per year for health insurance", even if they can't actually do those things.

Also, I think the general voting public is starting to get the message on how this is entirely about tax cuts for rich people. It's just looting. If they were smart, they'd content themselves with merely egregiously enriching the richest while throwing some bones to the middle, but they want to rule like Caligula and take everything for themselves.
posted by Frowner at 10:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [100 favorites]

If there is a failure of repeal, then there will be active active poisoning of the Affordable Care Act by Congress and the Executive Branch, with that shit eating smugness of them standing around the body saying "see, told you it was failing".

I have to wonder how hard Congressional staffers would actually work to do this though, given that - I believe - they have to get their health insurance from the DC exchange.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

He said ruefully this week that he should have done tax reform first when it became clear that the quick-hit health care victory he had hoped for was not going to materialize on Thursday

Is my understanding correct that because the GOP shot their budget reconciliation wad on the health care bill that they can't use it for tax reform, assuming the health bill fails? In other words, tax reform would be subject to a Dem filibuster? Also, tax reform would be harder to achieve because they won't have already repealed the taxes put in place by the Affordable Care Act.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 10:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Spicer is looking *especially* tired for this briefing, and has a definite "fuck-my-life" tone in his voice while doing the stupid readout of how everything is going fine. Eager to see if he's got the energy to bring the special Spice to the Q&A.
posted by dis_integration at 10:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

For the rest of this thread we should refer to Trump as 'that tiny-handed gent.'
posted by Killick at 10:22 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Congress is a co-equal branch of government capable of setting the agenda on its own. He could pull this bill and go back to the drawing board, or not. He could move on to tax cuts, or literally any other thing in the universe. Congress does not have to wait on the President's word or follow his suggested agenda.

Right? I don't understand the politics of politics sometimes.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Meanwhile, at today's meeting on feline healthcare...

Spicer is saying there will be a vote today, as if the White House gets to decide that, and that Trump has "left everything on the field" fighting for this bill, which is very much the sort of thing you say when you think you're about to lose. Spicer won't claim he has the votes, but he says "we're getting closer and closer," which just isn't true right now.

NBC's senior politics editor is making Titanic references.

This is big: "We want the vote," senior administration official says. "If they want to go against the president, they should do it on live TV." Sounds like someone in the White House is determined to see the flames rise higher, possibly because they want to force Ryan out?
posted by zachlipton at 10:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Spicer: "Maggie, I don't want you to live tweet this." WTF?
posted by dhens at 10:25 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

For the rest of this thread we should refer to Trump as 'that tiny-handed gent.'

I saw him drinking a piña colada at Mar-a-Lago. His hair was appalling.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:25 AM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

Anyone that recognizes me knows I'm dying to add snark but it's flying so fast and deep I just can not keep up.

[insert gif of fake solid gold apartment with perfect family scene with statue of liberty in the distance]
posted by sammyo at 10:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

"If they want to go against the president, they should do it on live TV."

They think that's the only way something counts, don't they.
posted by Etrigan at 10:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

Baghdad Sean just telegraphed that this is dead.
posted by mikelieman at 10:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Congress is a co-equal branch of government capable of setting the agenda on its own. He could pull this bill and go back to the drawing board, or not. He could move on to tax cuts, or literally any other thing in the universe. Congress does not have to wait on the President's word or follow his suggested agenda.

It makes more sense once you realize that it's not just Trump: every last one of them is an overtired toddler who's just been told they're out of their favorite breakfast cereal.

"But Daaaaaad, we were supposed to pass health care TODAY, you said we could. NOW what are we going to do?"

Now we just need someone to sternly step in and remind them that if they don't stop whining, we're not going to get to watch Daniel Tiger
posted by Mayor West at 10:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

I saw him drinking a piña colada at Mar-a-Lago. His hair was appalling.

I regret that I have but one 'like' to give.
posted by jferg at 10:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Spicer is looking *especially* tired for this briefing, and has a definite "fuck-my-life" tone in his voice while doing the stupid readout of how everything is going fine. Eager to see if he's got the energy to bring the special Spice to the Q&A.

I usually roll my eyes at reading into presenters' appearances, but oh my goodness, I've never seen him gesture this half-heartedly. This isn't the Spicer I'm used to seeing. It's 1pm on the east coast? Someone's having a loooooong day.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:28 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Y'all, we are going to lose sometimes but not like every time. One of the most heartening things recently has been seeing that the Trumpist/Republican policies are really unpopular. Their ability to lie and bullshit their way through isn't invincible--at least not when millions of Americans know there will be direct impacts on their lives and the lives of people they know and care about.
posted by overglow at 10:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

What? He's not even at the White House every day of the week, and even if he were, you don't go from "I'm Lovin' It" to "unbelievably healthy" in 60 days. I used to think these people were in a contest to see who could tell the most lies; now I'm convinced they're in a contest to see who can tell the dumbest lie.

...and have the "liberal" "dishonest" media uncritically report it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Now we just need someone to sternly step in and remind them that if they don't stop whining, we're not going to get to watch Daniel Tiger

If they don't stop whining, no one will since they're trying to kill PBS.
posted by Freon at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Hi Sean. saturday_morning, MetaFilter. Sean, how would you like to... to just stop all this? How would you like to just walk out that door and take off your tie and walk away? How would you like to be on a sandy beach at this time tomorrow with a serious Mai Tai buzz blurring your ever-darkening memories of your time in this room, a gentle voice in your ear murmuring "you never have to go back, Sean, you never have to go back"? We can make that happen, Sean. It's all going to be okay. Shh. Shhhh. And a followup question: which charity will the President be donating his salary to?
posted by saturday_morning at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

Right? I don't understand the politics of politics sometimes.

My sense is that this is the 'avoidence of fault' game that went on at my last workplace. Managers and VPs weren't actively working to make the company a success, they were working to make sure the blame for failure got pinned to someone else. Ryan wants Trump to dictate the vote timing, so that when it failes he can point to the executive and say that it was Trump's ultimatum that sunk the thing. Trump wants Ryan to hold the vote so he can point to Ryan's failure to pass his signature legislative goal.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Great slip from Spicer just now: “There’s a great appetite for tax return...” then his eyes got wide & he quickly fixed it to “tax reform.”

Why yes, I am rather hungry for that, thanks
posted by miles per flower at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

Is "collusion between the branches of government" a problem-thing at all? Historically? Just the natural state of things?
posted by rhizome at 10:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is damage control for Ryan. He's trying to explain, in small words, to the Toddler-in-Chief, that losing a vote would be worse and more embarrassing for everyone, Toddler included, than not having the vote.

If he can't get that through Trump's thick skull and short attention span, then Trump will begin waging war on Ryan and the congressional Republicans, rather than just passively moving on to the next shiny object.

Ryan is trying to tip the balance toward passive neglect and the generalized anger that would cause among the GOP faithful, rather than a monumental upswell in Trump-catalyzed, vitriolic anger and hatred from the GOP base.

Either way, after the Travel Ban failed once, then was blocked a second time, and the AHCA failing, I think we can completely drop the "c" now and it's just: "The Loser".
posted by darkstar at 10:32 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Is my understanding correct that because the GOP shot their budget reconciliation wad on the health care bill that they can't use it for tax reform, assuming the health bill fails? In other words, tax reform would be subject to a Dem filibuster? Also, tax reform would be harder to achieve because they won't have already repealed the taxes put in place by the Affordable Care Act.

I'm not sure whether they can rescind the resolutions that laid out the path for AHCA under reconciliation and start over for 2017, or if they have to move onto a 2018 resolution (can they even do that? or do they have to get something done for 2017 first?). But they absolutely needed to split the tax cuts up across the two bills to get what they wanted within the Byrd rule.

And there is zero consensus among the GOP on tax reform, so it's not going to be any easier.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:32 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Now we just need someone to sternly step in and remind them that if they don't stop whining, we're not going to get to watch Daniel Tiger

If any of these goons had actually watched Mister Rogers when they were kids we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

rhizome: "Is "collusion between the branches of government" a problem-thing at all? Historically? Just the natural state of things?"

Historically, there was much more branch vs branch division, and much less party vs party. Arguably, things worked okay in the earlier era. Now, not so hot.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Have been reading Pat Buchanan's magazine "The American Conservative" to get out of my bubble (and so I can pick fights with people in their Facebook comments)...

Here's their take:

So, the health care bill. It appears that the House GOP is poised to eliminate Obamacare’s rule that would protect people with pre-existing conditions from being denied insurance. They might say no, they aren’t, but that’s not really true; the protection may remain in name only.

Whatever you thought of Obamacare, that part of it was fair and necessary. Why on earth would this supposedly newly populist party want to do something that stands to hurt the most vulnerable? What kind of ideologues would do this? What kind of populist president would support it?
...
A study released this week found that mortality rates among the white working class shot up 60 percent — 60 percent! — in fewer than twenty years. It’s complicated why this is happening, but the last thing these people need is to give insurance companies an opportunity to deny them coverage. These are Trump’s people, and as Brooks indicates, he’s selling them out for the sake of a political win.

Meanwhile the Libertarian Reason Magazine:

In other words, rather than reducing health insurance premiums and increasing access to care, as Freedom Caucus members say they hope, the new rule could lead to the complete and immediate meltdown of the entire individual market. These are the sorts of problems that emerge when passing legislation becomes a purely political goal, rather than a policy objective, and when the effort is led in part by someone, in this case President Trump, who appears to have no idea what is in the bill or how it works.

We already saw in the last thread that Breitbart hates it too (link goes to twitter screenshot of Breitbart front page, not Breitbart), and Rust Moranis reported that even r/the_donald are not fans...

Fox News quotes this tweet even though they really didn't have to: If Exec branch tells Legislative branch "when 2 vote" "how 2 vote" & "what it will b allowed 2 work on if vote fails," is that a republic? - Thomas Massie

The Republican media really set the Republican party agenda these days, for better or for worse. I think most reps fear Fox News more than they fear Trump. I also think this is an opportunity for themselves to distance themselves from the possibly doomed Trump presidency (at least, I think this distancing might be a hopeful sign that it's perceived as doomed) and the increasingly unpopular Obamacare repeal plan at the same time. If they do it now, they can stick the failure to Trump, who may become a sacrificial goat...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

After about the 100th question starting "If the bill fails...", Spicer pleaded, "If anyone has a question about if it PASSES, please ask it!" The reporter who interrupted asked "Would you like to have a briefing after the vote then?" To which he responded with with a cry of "NO!". I think the veil fell for a minute.
posted by jammer at 10:34 AM on March 24, 2017 [89 favorites]

So what's the problem with passing a clean repeal? You did it 50 times. Oh, wait...now that it's actually going to be SIGNED, you can't get the votes? So you never meant it to begin with. You were just hiding behind the Senate and/or Obama's veto pen. Now that the prospect of repeal is actual, suddenly you don't have the votes? Fascinating study in integrity,
posted by robbyrobs at 10:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [97 favorites]

We have some friends that we invited over for November 8. We'll eat some delicious pork shoulder (with posole), have dessert, and watch Hillary be elected!

We invited the same friends over for February 5. We'll eat some delicious pork shoulder (bo ssam style), have dessert, and well, we were't expecting it, but let's watch the Falcons beat Trump's team!

This time around, Mr. Machine met his friend in a bar last night. Mr. Machine ate a po'boy. His friend ate a burger. No pork shoulder in sight.

COME ON UNIVERSE
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

Pork po'boy?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think you need to get new friends, sorry to say.
posted by asteria at 10:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I know we're past the Ides of March, but... Et tu, Brit?

@brithume
Trump backers saying he's really not responsible re: AHCA are, in effect, saying he's a dope taken in by evil Svengali Paul Ryan. Ridiculous
posted by chris24 at 10:38 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

That reminds me, did the Patriots ever go to the White House?
posted by asteria at 10:38 AM on March 24, 2017

Spicer: re the bill *potentially* not passing and what Trump has done to, ahem, encourage it to pass: "This isn't a dictatorship."

(yet)
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:38 AM on March 24, 2017

Pork po'boy

Spicer's secret service codename
posted by orange ball at 10:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

is it time to start drinking or is it really time to start drinking
posted by murphy slaw at 10:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Without pre-judging the way the vote will go..." [sniggers throughout the room]
posted by MattWPBS at 10:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

It isn't?!?!?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:41 AM on March 24, 2017

Speaker Fight
posted by EarBucket at 10:44 AM on March 24, 2017

"How much credit will the President take for the outcome of this bill?" [more giggles]
posted by theodolite at 10:45 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

If he can't get that through Trump's thick skull and short attention span, then Trump will begin waging war on Ryan and the congressional Republicans, rather than just passively moving on to the next shiny object.

Ryan is trying to tip the balance toward passive neglect and the generalized anger that would cause among the GOP faithful, rather than a monumental upswell in Trump-catalyzed, vitriolic anger and hatred from the GOP base.

I believe they were warned
posted by chaoticgood at 10:45 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Fucker better be working on The Doors of Stone.

You're thinking of his brother, David Lee.
posted by scalefree at 10:46 AM on March 24, 2017

SATANIC COMPETITION WITH WHITE HOUSE CONFIRMED.

JOURNALIST: "What lessons will be learned from the way this health care bill has been handled with tax reform?"
SPICER: "Well, we're very uncompetitive on tax with our otherworldly competitors..."

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Trump Mar'a'lago wgah'nagl fhtagn!
posted by MattWPBS at 10:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

"Why doesn't Trump just order all the surveillance transcripts that mention his name?" (close paraphrasing)

YASSSSSS!
posted by dhens at 10:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Another interesting thing is that, if this DOES fail, the Dems didn't do anything fancy to stop it. I don't mean to diminish the hard fight that has been fought, but there is no "obstruction" that the Rs can point to that shifts the blame to the Dems. They didn't even get the chance, really.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 10:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

"Why doesn't Trump just order all the surveillance transcripts that mention his name?" (close paraphrasing)

They tried that. You'd be surprised how often "shitbag" comes up in surveillance.
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

A little something for anyone who, like me, feels like tempting the wrath of the whatever on social media
posted by saturday_morning at 10:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

wonder when they roll out the victory cake
posted by the phlegmatic king at 10:49 AM on March 24, 2017

Reporter: If you don't have the votes to pass, why have the vote?

Spicer: I'm not going to comment on our strategy.

Sean. Seany baby. C'mon. Everyone knows it's because the president doesn't know how any of this works. Just say it.
posted by zrail at 10:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

A little something for anyone who, like me, feels like tempting the wrath of the whatever on social media

And if you'd like animation and soundtrack for your social media dance: You Don't Have the Votes
posted by chris24 at 10:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Yeah, so that must have been fun for Spicer, having the Press Corps laughing at him.
posted by MattWPBS at 10:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Reporter: If you don't have the votes to pass, why have the vote?

The real reason has got to be: "It looks like Trump's first infrastructure proposal is a high speed bus lane that will go right over Paul Ryan"

There's clearly a White House faction gunning for Ryan. Just look at Brietbart, which is running headlines like "REPORT: BANNON SAYS AHCA ‘WRITTEN BY THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY" and "MIDTERM SUICIDE" over this alongside a rather bad picture of Ryan. If Ryan puts this thing on the floor and it goes down in flames (and if members don't think it will pass, it will really go down in flames, because plenty of reps might be willing to vote yes if it makes a difference, but aren't signing their name to this shit for nothing), I don't know how he stays in his job.

The question is what's in it for Ryan? Trump doesn't control the House floor. What possible reason does he have to let the vote go forward.
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

God, that Major Garrett tweet is making me feel such glee

I've got a Buridan's ass situation here between either a joke about Captain Garrett or one about Minor Garrett.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh, those sweet summer days when you could persuade a House Republican majority just by playing a movie clip of Gangster Ben Affleck saying "I need your help. I can’t tell you what it is. You can never ask me about it later. And we’re going to hurt some people."

He Is Only The Imposter: Another interesting thing is that, if this DOES fail, the Dems didn't do anything fancy to stop it. I don't mean to diminish the hard fight that has been fought, but there is no "obstruction" that the Rs can point to that shifts the blame to the Dems.

AHCA_vote.gif
posted by Rhaomi at 10:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Yeah, November is still a strong enough memory for me that I'm not counting chickens before they count votes.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

If they're gunning for Ryan, who do they want in his place? He only has that job because no one else would take it.
posted by emjaybee at 11:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Oh god, imagine Nunes failing upwards into the Speaker's chair.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The question is what's in it for Ryan? Trump doesn't control the House floor. What possible reason does he have to let the vote go forward.

So he can say "Trump made me do it," and blame the whole debacle on Trump! Ryan has always secretly/openly hated Trump and vice versa, after all...

And then, I devoutly hope, pretend Obamacare repeal was all Trump's idea in the first place, and never mention repealing the ACA again after Trump gets impeached (knock wood.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:02 AM on March 24, 2017

Yeah, November is still a strong enough memory for me that I'm not counting chickens before they count votes.

what if the chickens are exceptionally large
posted by cortex at 11:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [41 favorites]

You want to tempt the wrath of whatever from high atop the thing?

Also, what's Ryan's play here? Seems like a bad move to call a vote you know you're gonna lose. And Trump's not his boss.
posted by craven_morhead at 11:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yeah, let's save the celebration for after the vote. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they pull this thing out at the last minute.
posted by jferg at 11:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

> Oh god, imagine Nunes failing upwards into the Speaker's chair.

Don't give the writers any more terrible ideas. This 2017 season is ridiculous enough already, and the ratings are going to be awful. Believe me.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

who do they want in his place?

Well technically the speaker of the house doesn't even have to be a member of congress...
posted by dilaudid at 11:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Does Trump know he's not Ryan's boss?

Does Ryan?
posted by asteria at 11:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

Imagine what a nailbiter this must be for the hordes of medicaid-scamming lottery winners.
posted by H. Roark at 11:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [79 favorites]

I've got a different song for the afternoon.
posted by MrGuilt at 11:04 AM on March 24, 2017

And Trump's not his boss.

Depends. Do dogs consider the one they roll over and expose their balls to to be the "boss"?
posted by Etrigan at 11:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Wait. Am I missing something here? Yesterday everyone was saying 22 GOP defections were enough to scuttle the bill. Today Slate and NYT are saying 23 are needed. What gives?
posted by saturday_morning at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017

> If they're gunning for Ryan, who do they want in his place? He only has that job because no one else would take it."

I am dubious regarding an implicit assumption contained within your question.
posted by kyrademon at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Great slip from Spicer just now: “There’s a great appetite for tax return...” then his eyes got wide & he quickly fixed it to “tax reform.”

There's a great appetite for the blood of the innocent...

... blood of the wanton!

...

Steak! I meant to say, there's a great appetite for the blood of a medium rare steak...

*shoe flies by Spicer's head*

Well done! Well done!
posted by krinklyfig at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

That reminds me, did the Patriots ever go to the White House?

Currently scheduled for April 19th, with many members of the team expected to skip the visit.

April 19th is Patriots' Day, which commemorates the Battles of Lexington and Concord. In Massachusetts, it's celebrated on the third Monday of April with reenactments, parades, and the Boston Marathon.
posted by carmicha at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Another interesting thing is that, if this DOES fail, the Dems didn't do anything fancy to stop it. I don't mean to diminish the hard fight that has been fought, but there is no "obstruction" that the Rs can point to that shifts the blame to the Dems. They didn't even get the chance, really.

Which is yet another own-goal by the Republicans. The Republicans were able to do a lot of damage to the ACA thanks to the likes of Susan Collins pretending she might, just might, provide the Republican vote Obama badly wanted. This time, the Republicans were so much in triumphalist, "we're going to ram this terrible legislation thru and there's nothing you can do to stop us" mode that Democratic cover wasn't sought or desired, and Democratic opposition was presumed so much that even the media isn't invoking "partisanship" out of the fact that Democrats are a unanimous "nay."

May this pattern of Republican incompetence ever stymie their horrible agenda.
posted by Gelatin at 11:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

Can we not invoke Hamilton? Hamilton is bad luck.

A friend of mine was playing the soundtrack a month or so ago, and I nearly cried.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Does Trump know he's not Ryan's boss?

I think this is the whole thing, him thinking he's the boss not only of Congress, but the United States. Trump has got to be confused by why this isn't working! He's really stupid, and is used to everyone doing what he says.
posted by something something at 11:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

what if the chickens are exceptionally large

Roosters of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [49 favorites]

Trump's gonna nominate himself to be the next Speaker.
posted by Groundhog Week at 11:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Wait. Am I missing something here? Yesterday everyone was saying 22 GOP defections were enough to scuttle the bill. Today Slate and NYT are saying 23 are needed. What gives?

I think there's question whether Rep. Bobby Rush, a Democrat, will be there, because his wife just died the other day.
posted by zachlipton at 11:09 AM on March 24, 2017

Wait. Am I missing something here? Yesterday everyone was saying 22 GOP defections were enough to scuttle the bill. Today Slate and NYT are saying 23 are needed. What gives?

Democrat Bobby Rush of Illinois may miss the vote because his wife, Carolyn, died.
posted by carmicha at 11:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Can we not invoke Hamilton? Hamilton is bad luck.

A friend of mine was playing the soundtrack a month or so ago, and I nearly cried.

posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:06 AM on March 24 [+] [!]

you think that's bad?

who's got two thumbs and spent the evening of November 8th at the Richard Rodgers theater (spoiler alert: this guy).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

I just got an infection treated: I called the medical center at 1:30, got a time at another center that was open until later at 5:00, lab tests and a diagnosis before 5:45, fetched out antibiotics at a reasonably nearby pharmacy at 6:15, took my first pill in the car on the way back home.
I paid: re-calculated 17 bucks, 11 for the doctor and 6 for the medicine.
And tomorrow I can write: "what happened in Sweden yesterday."

Sorry, yes, an infection is a bit of a derail
posted by Namlit at 11:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Those Charter Communications jobs that Spicer was all excited about? They were announced back in October. But companies are happy to let the President of the United States give them good PR by pretending they're doing things because of Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

who's got two thumbs and spent the evening of November 8th at the Richard Rodgers theater (spoiler alert: this guy).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris

Boy, sometimes the universe really lays it out there for ya...
posted by Etrigan at 11:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

The question is what's in it for Ryan? Trump doesn't control the House floor. What possible reason does he have to let the vote go forward.

Trump's dumb and vindictive and doesn't like being told "no." It's bad (for Ryan) to have the bill fail and the White House try to blame it entirely on the Speaker. It's worse (for Ryan) if he personally kills the vote and is 100% undeniably the cause of it not moving forward.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:15 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Loss Aversion, Trump and the New Opening for Medicare for All
posted by robbyrobs at 11:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

NCAA gives North Carolina a deadline to repeal HB2 or lose events until 2022
posted by futz at 11:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [84 favorites]

@jonNothin: This is the best one
posted by Going To Maine at 11:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Floor speeches by Democrats have absolutely nothing to do with what's going to happen with this bill, but if you need a shot of righteous indignation, here's one minute of amazing Rep. John Lewis material: "I oppose this bill with every breath and every bone in my body."

And holy crap: More than 200 dead in suspected U.S. airstrike that hits civilians in Mosul. They think they might have blown up a fuel truck.
posted by zachlipton at 11:22 AM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

House Intelligence Committee open hearing into Russia links 'cancelled', says furious Democrat leader

"source says Nunes never told committee members he was canceling March 28 open hearing. Members didnt find out until Nunes presser today"

"Nunes essentially blew up the investigation because he realized the scope of what he negotiated with Schiff could actually threaten Trump."
posted by leotrotsky at 11:22 AM on March 24, 2017 [87 favorites]

Ryan Lizza (twitter): Senior White House official on House healthcare vote: "March or die."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

ABC News: FBI Director James Comey is at the White House. No word yet on why...
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

I also will feel less nervous once the bill is officially dead. But here's part of why I'm optimistic right now--watching this unfold the past few days, I've realized how central optics and expectations are to the Congressional negotiation process. The White House/House GOP Leadership had to stay publicly optimistic and keep saying they would win because otherwise they wouldn't have a chance. That's why various factions and Representatives kept making announcements and talking with the press--they're fighting in the realm of expectations.

Right now, the word on the D.C. Twitter is that the vote will fail. That impacts the choices and risk assessment of various Representatives. To even have a chance, they'd need to shift the narrative/climate/expectations.

And right now, no one seems to be doing that.
posted by overglow at 11:28 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Dr Chuck Tingle's take as offered on buttbart.com: Trompcare Revision Cuts Coverage For All Humans While Expanding Healthcare To Cosmic Horrors Of The Void.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

Ryan Lizza (twitter): Senior White House official on House healthcare vote: "March or die."

let's take bets: was it a) Bannon b) Priebus c) Andrew Jackson from beyond the grave
posted by saturday_morning at 11:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Attorney for "Frozen Trucker": Neil Gorsuch May Have Been Most Hostile Judge I've Ever Encountered
posted by homunculus at 11:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

"Pray with me, Henry."
posted by Chrysostom at 11:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

ABC News: FBI Director James Comey is at the White House. No word yet on why...

Donald! Hey, you want that failed healthcare bill out of the headlines tomorrow morning? Yeah! Follow me.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

"Nunes essentially blew up the investigation because he realized the scope of what he negotiated with Schiff could actually threaten Trump."
posted by leotrotsky at 11:22 AM on March 24 [15 favorites −] [!]

Uhhhh IANAL but this seems like it should be illegal, in a conspiratorial sort of way

I will be sooooo happy if we can add Nunes to the list of people who have to worry about prison
posted by schadenfrau at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Bannon Tells Trump: ‘Keep a Shit List’ of Republicans Who Opposed You

According to multiple Trump administration officials speaking to The Daily Beast on the condition of anonymity to talk freely, the president is angry that his first big legislative push is crumbling before his eyes—and his chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon is advising him to take names and keep a hit list of Republicans who worked for Trumpcare’s defeat.

“[Bannon] has told the president to keep a shit list on this,” one official told The Daily Beast. “He wants a running tally of [the Republicans] who want to sink this…Not sure if I’d call it an ‘enemies list,’ per se, but I wouldn’t want to be on it.”

posted by futz at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Bannon Tells Trump: ...

This.
posted by Melismata at 11:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

On the bright side, this seems like a good way to push up impeachment.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Bannon Tells Trump: ‘Keep a Shit List’ of Republicans Who Opposed You

Dude, yes, by all means slice and dice your majority into ever smaller and smaller factions. That's the ticket!
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [89 favorites]

More from the Shit List article.

...Bannon wants the tally of “against” versus “with us” mounted in his so-called West Wing “war room.”

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

Sources also said that others including Mick Mulvaney, Trump's director of the Office of Management and Budget and co-founder of the House Freedom Caucus, endorsed the idea of the running list, and that Trump agreed with the idea.
posted by futz at 11:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

“[Bannon] has told the president to keep a shit list on this,” one official told The Daily Beast. “He wants a running tally of [the Republicans] who want to sink this…Not sure if I’d call it an ‘enemies list,’ per se, but I wouldn’t want to be on it.”

There's only so many people you can put on an enemies list before it becomes far easier to keep track of who's still willing to put up with your shit.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

>Not sure if I’d call it an ‘enemies list,’ per se, but I wouldn’t want to be on it.”

Why would you be unsure if you'd call it exactly what it is?

In any case, good, let them drink each other's blood. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

According to Omarosa Manigault he already has a list.

“It’s so great our enemies are making themselves clear so that when we get in to the White House, we know where we stand,” Manigault told Independent Journal Review at Trump’s election night party on Wednesday.
...
“I would never judge anybody for exercising their right to and the freedom to choose who they want. But let me just tell you, Mr. Trump has a long memory and we’re keeping a list.”

posted by kirkaracha at 11:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The question is what's in it for Ryan? Trump doesn't control the House floor. What possible reason does he have to let the vote go forward.

Trump's dumb and vindictive and doesn't like being told "no." It's bad (for Ryan) to have the bill fail and the White House try to blame it entirely on the Speaker. It's worse (for Ryan) if he personally kills the vote and is 100% undeniably the cause of it not moving forward.

Ryan's great weakness compared with a genuine narcissist like Trump is that he actually cares about things other than his image. The things he cares about are reprehensible things like starving grannies, but he still cares about them.

Trump is free to just veto everything else Ryan passes out of pure spite, for instance. Trump has no agenda other than enriching and aggrandising Trump, so there's no downside for him to such an (insane) strategy. And Ryan has nothing to retaliate with because, again, Trump has no agenda. (I don't consider impeachment a realistic threat coming from Ryan, at least at this stage. The case needs more time to build before he can be sure that 2/3 of the Senate will actually vote to convict.)
posted by tobascodagama at 11:38 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

"Do everything Nixon did, but in public" has been working great so far so I dunno
posted by theodolite at 11:38 AM on March 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

216. That's the magic number. 'Why are you all so negative?'

Smiling whilst backing this shit
posted by Myeral at 11:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

ABC News: FBI Director James Comey is at the White House. No word yet on why...

did he bring handcuffs
posted by beerperson at 11:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [66 favorites]

but like, custom-sized tiny handcuffs
posted by beerperson at 11:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [109 favorites]

Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

I'm no military historian, but pretty sure you're not supposed to do this while you're still ON the boats...
posted by neroli at 11:42 AM on March 24, 2017 [59 favorites]

Do you suppose any Republican MoC's are thinking how cushy and secure their jobs would have been with HRC in the whitehouse?
posted by klarck at 11:43 AM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

but like, custom-sized tiny handcuffs

F.B.I. TO SPECIAL-ORDER A PAIR OF TINY HANDCUFFS
posted by leotrotsky at 11:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Even Newt thinks this is stupid: "Why would you schedule a vote on a bill that is at 17% approval? Have we forgotten everything Reagan taught us?"
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

ABC News: FBI Director James Comey is at the White House. No word yet on why...

did he bring handcuffs

If so, hopefully it goes better than that other time the head of a major law enforcement agency tried to arrest a corrupt head of state.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

>Have we forgotten everything Reagan taught us?"

Why, did Reagan teach them something besides 'be smug and cut taxes'?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Even Newt thinks this is stupid: "Why would you schedule a vote on a bill that is at 17% approval? Have we forgotten everything Reagan taught us?"

@BeauWillimon: This is Trump using lackey @newtgingrich to shift blame to @SpeakerRyan when #Trumpcare proves to be an Epic Fail.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump is free to just veto everything else Ryan passes out of pure spite, for instance. Trump has no agenda other than enriching and aggrandising Trump, so there's no downside for him to such an (insane) strategy.

im not so sure, isn't the tethering of Trump to the GOP the thing that is currently providing him his best defense against impending impeachment?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

“I would never judge anybody for exercising their right to and the freedom to choose who they want. But let me just tell you, Mr. Trump has a long memory and we’re keeping a list.”

Goddd, these creeps love the "I would never say X, but X" construction
posted by the phlegmatic king at 11:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

F.B.I. TO SPECIAL-ORDER A PAIR OF TINY HANDCUFFS

oh god i made a borowitz joke

death is too good for me
posted by beerperson at 11:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [56 favorites]

Rykey: He's not even at the White House every day of the week, and even if he were, you don't go from "I'm Lovin' It" to "unbelievably healthy" in 60 days.

Fun fact: it's a lot of work for a President to casually dine out, involving weeks to months of secretive preparation, background checks, and watching the food as it's prepared. You can't really roll up to a drive-thru and order a burger as the US president. I can see Trump not being one to plan well enough for such events, so he eats in more than not.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

>I'm no military historian, but pretty sure you're not supposed to do this while you're still ON the boats...

Well, that depends on how committed you are to ensuring the "die trying" end result. Bannon is pretty fucking committed.
posted by lydhre at 11:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

@BeauWillimon: This is Trump using lackey @newtgingrich to shift blame to @SpeakerRyan when #Trumpcare proves to be an Epic Fail.

If so he did a very bad job at that, since it's been reported far and wide that Ryan wanted to kill the vote but the White House insisted that it happen this afternoon. By not explicitly naming Ryan it reads as anger against Trump.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

dilaudid: Well technically the speaker of the house doesn't even have to be a member of congress...

I know a young woman with some executive experience -- and hey, she already has an office in the White House!
posted by wenestvedt at 11:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump is free to just veto everything else Ryan passes out of pure spite...

im not so sure, isn't the tethering of Trump to the GOP the thing that is currently providing him his best defense against impending impeachment?

trump probably just assumes he can veto an impeachment.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

House intel source says Nunes trying to "suicide bomb" House Russia investigation w this week's actions
posted by leotrotsky at 11:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Goddd, these creeps love the "I would never say X, but X" construction

Apophasis
posted by rhizome at 11:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

>> Pork po'boy
> Spicer's secret service codename

I was hoping for Spiceweasel
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 11:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

I know a young woman with some executive experience -- and hey, she already has an office in the White House!

Hillary Clinton?
posted by beerperson at 11:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Looking forward to Paul Ryan stepping down to spend more time with
his $700-Wine-Sipping Buddies: Hedge Fund Manager And University Of Chicago Economist.
posted by robbyrobs at 11:52 AM on March 24, 2017

FWIW, the Senate Sergeant at Arms is the only person with the legal authority to arrest the President.
posted by schmod at 11:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

I can not fully articulate how much happiness the GOP, especially that phony Paul Ryan, is giving me. The fools might be steering the car, but the rabble rousers in the back seat are creating a ruckus. Thank you all for voicing their opinions to their Reps. Even the idiot Paula Tenney from my district is now waffling. Not likely on principle mind you, but because she is a lame excuse for personhood and has no principles other than getting re-elected.

This may be only a temporary win but today I will relish in the fact that donald trump loses big.

I fucking hate donald trump.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

$700 worth of wine? Yikes! That's over 233 bottles!

Three-buck cuck?
posted by rhizome at 11:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

im not so sure, isn't the tethering of Trump to the GOP the thing that is currently providing him his best defense against impending impeachment?

Impeaching him would probably hurt congressional Republicans less than this shitty bill, too.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

First off: everyone stop what you're doing and TTTCS right fucking now.

Secondly: if Trump manages to force the vote and it crashes and burns I amend my prediction of impeachment to, oh, June.
posted by lydhre at 11:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The fools might be steering the car, but the rabble rousers in the back seat are creating a ruckus

Seinfeld did it
posted by rhizome at 11:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

FWIW, the Senate Sergeant at Arms is the only person with the legal authority to arrest the President.

I've been wondering if this is true for any crimes committed before he took office. Usually in law, that matters. If he committed the crimes before he took office, he shouldn't have immunity, I would think.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Impeaching him would probably hurt congressional Republicans less than this shitty bill, too.

The House could impeach Trump with a simple majority, but to get rid of him the Senate vote needs to be two-thirds, which means they need would Democrats. Which also means, much as the Democrats would love to oust him, they could possibly ask for some concessions in return.
posted by Gelatin at 11:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Vote still slated for 3:30 pm ET. NYT will have a live, member by member tally.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Taking another's little peek at /r/the_donald's "rising submissions" tab. Rank and titles:

#2: Paul Ryan is done after today. Press S to spit on his grave.
#5: DEMAND THIS MAN RESIGNS THE SPEAKERSHIP FOR DRAGGING TRUMP THROUGH THE MUD ON THIS CRAPSHOOT HEALTH CARE BILL
#9: Paul Ryan is a disgrace, he should resign and let someone far more qualified take over as Speaker, "Rowdy" Trey Gowdy

heh. heh heh.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

I mean, otherwise being POTUS is like a get of jail free card for anybody who can get into office. That can't be "rule of law," can it?
posted by saulgoodman at 12:00 PM on March 24, 2017

Impeaching him would probably hurt congressional Republicans less than this shitty bill, too.

Part of me thinks that the only thing preventing the Republicans from impeaching and convicting Trump and replacing him with Pence -- who would sign every piece of shitty reactionary legislation the Rs could dream of -- is that the animating philosophy of the conservative movement leads them to want to keep Trump to "stick it to the libs."
posted by dhens at 12:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

dhens: Spicer: "Maggie, I don't want you to live tweet this." WTF?

Odd tangent: Archive.org used to include tweets, and thanks to its awesome "if we don't have a live page, we'll add it," you could both bypass filters that blocked Twitter AND archive the tweets.

But today Twitter's Robots.txt file blocks Archive.org from crawling the pages, and I can't read their robots.txt file because I can't visit Twitter (and if you try viewing it on a mobile device, you get forwarded to mobile.twitter.com, which doesn't include the robots.txt file).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:01 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

If I were a Republican Congresscritter, I'd say that I would consider being on Trump's "shit list" would be a mark of honor* and would significantly improve their reelection chances in '18.

*but then, it has been decades since Republicans gave a shit about "honor"
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

"Rep. Chris Collins (R-NY), a key Trump ally in Congress, said part of the problem predicting Friday's vote result is that communications have broken down among House Republicans. "I've never seen this. People are refusing to talk to each other. They're storming past each other. This is not good," he told reporters. "There is bitterness within our conference that's going to take time to heal."

I am having another lie down.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [154 favorites]

Any legal experts who know for sure how it's supposed to work if, say, it comes out a president committed murder before taking office after he assumes office, please memail me or offer a hot take on that question for me.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:03 PM on March 24, 2017

Which also means, much as the Democrats would love to oust him, they could possibly ask for some concessions in return.

Those famous strong-arm Democrats
posted by beerperson at 12:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE:

New poll in GA-06:

First round:

Ossoff (D): 40
Handel (R): 20
Gray (R): 10
Hill (R): 10
Moody (R): 8

Ossoff in runoffs:

42-41 vs. Handel
44-42 vs. Gray
44-45 vs. Hill
46-44 vs. Moody

posted by Chrysostom at 12:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [38 favorites]

Hold the vote, sir, tiny hands, sir.
Comes the headlight of the subway.
Swear revenge on the defectors.
You had a busy day today.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

@Reuters: JUST IN: Trump says House Speaker Ryan should stay on as leader even if healthcare bill fails.

Am I wrong in thinking that it would have been considered a huge transgression if any previous president had opined publically about the internecine workings of the Congressional leadership structure?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

Am I wrong in thinking that it would have been considered a huge transgression

This is not normal. None of this is normal. Furthermore the president gives zero fucks toward historical norms.
posted by zrail at 12:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

Am I wrong in thinking that it would have been considered a huge transgression if any previous president had opined publically about the internecine workings of the Congressional leadership structure?

Surely this...
posted by Mayor West at 12:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

All I know is they better have a vote on this fucker before I leave work today.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

if, say, it comes out a president committed murder before taking office after he assumes office,
Of course, Donald would never hold a murder weapon in his own tiny hands, he'd just give a verbal order... or tweet it. (Please remember that all the bodies in the concrete foundations of Trump Buildings are the victims of his mobster pals)
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

the president gives zero fucks toward historical norms.

The president doesn't know what a historical norm is.
posted by Melismata at 12:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Was that the Kiss of Death?
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ryan Lizza (twitter): Senior White House official on House healthcare vote: "March or die."

Got a Motörhead fan in the West Wing
posted by Existential Dread at 12:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump says House Speaker Ryan should stay on as leader even if healthcare bill fails.

That makes sense, otherwise Trump has to go through the whole process of humiliating a new Speaker, and we know how much he hates any sort of work.
posted by mikepop at 12:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

We've gone from Black Mirror to Survivor.
posted by archimago at 12:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Going to hurl myself against the wall
'Cause I'd rather feel bad than nothing at all

AND IT AIN'T THAT PRETTY AT ALL

Zevon's entire career can be used for this thread, maybe.
posted by dilettante at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

Arthas Menethil did this too! Great, next thing you know we'll have a Lich King, and those are next to impossible to get rid of.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

The president doesn't know what a historical norm is.

"Historical Norm, an example of somebody who's done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more."
posted by mikepop at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

the president gives zero fucks toward historical norms.

The president thinks"historical norm" was the guy on Cheers who looks like Chris Christie.
</rimshot>
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

The president doesn't know what a historical norm is.

Literally. If he ever finds out, expect a speech where he tells the country, "Not a lot of people know this, but governments run on unspoken historical norms that aren't written down anywhere."
posted by tobascodagama at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

Ryan Lizza (twitter): Senior White House official on House healthcare vote: "March or die."

Got a Motörhead fan in the West Wing
posted by Existential Dread

Think bigger. This whole weird train picked up speed right when Lemmy died. You're just seeing proof that this is all his ghost pulling the strings, probably trying to immanentize the eschaton
posted by the phlegmatic king at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump probably feels that if he can magnanimously allow Ryan to "stay on," he'll have power over him. Leverage. Bring on the meatloaf, etc.
posted by lydhre at 12:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

but like, custom-sized tiny handcuffs

You know who else had tiny hands?

No, not Hitler, but Billy the Kid, who had big wrists and small hands which made it no problem to slip cuffs and escape.

So yeah, we're gonna need some special cuffs for Donny.
posted by chris24 at 12:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Donald would never hold a murder weapon in his own tiny hands, he'd just give a verbal order... or tweet it.
Who will rid me of this "meddlesome" speaker?
posted by j_curiouser at 12:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Any legal experts who know for sure how it's supposed to work if, say, it comes out a president committed murder before taking office after he assumes office, please memail me or offer a hot take on that question for me.

Since the President can pardon himself for any crime, so long as he is still President, the only legal remedy for any felony commited by the President is impeachment. I suppose the President could choose *not* to pardon himself, so, technically, the DoJ could bring down indictments against a sitting President, arrest him, put him on trial, etc. But the pardon power means this is never even considered, in practice.
posted by dis_integration at 12:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Who will rid me of this meddlesome speaker?

I don't think that Trump would get this historical allusion. I also don't think that he would understand what an "allusion" is.
posted by dhens at 12:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

Bannon's entire political philosophy appears to be cribbed from the pages of 300.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

next thing you know we'll have a Lich King, and those are next to impossible to get rid of.

I read that as "Lice King" and was just going to recommend a medicated shampoo.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

House intel source says Nunes trying to "suicide bomb" House Russia investigation w this week's actions

Does that mean we can stop Republicans at the border now?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

Can somebody translate this Ben Shapiro tweet?

Convenient how Trump flips from all-powerful master negotiator to well-intentioned simpleton duped by Snidely Ryan at the drop of a hat.

My Trump-loving state rep just retweeted it, but I'm confused because isn't Shapiro mocking Trump here?
posted by diogenes at 12:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I...I feel like this thread title is just asking for me to "eponysterical" myself.

Is that a thing? Can I do that?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

My Trump-loving state rep just retweeted it, but I'm confused because isn't Shapiro mocking Trump here?

Yeah, I got a feeling the honeymoon is over and even pretenses of supporting Trump are falling by the wayside. I've been wrong a lot, but could an actual, for real #NeverTrump wing of the GOP really come out of this?
posted by mikelieman at 12:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm not surprised, diogenes.

Is self awareness really something we've ever seen on display with this group? Didn't the actual White House tweet a satirical "this is why Trump is great!" article simple because of the title?
posted by absalom at 12:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

> isn't Shapiro mocking Trump here?

Sure is. Either your rep is scurrying off the sinking ship or they just have a case of the stupids.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 12:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

The anal wart in a suit doling out time for the Republicans and vomiting cancerous fumes of lexical sulphur upon the nation, who VOTES for that?!? WTF?!?

WHEN SOMETHING FALLS OFF SATAN'S ASS DON'T PUT IT IN CHARGE FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

You shall know them by their warts.
posted by riverlife at 12:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

" could an actual, for real #NeverTrump wing of the GOP really come out of this?"

No, because Trump already happened, they'll have to be #NotAgainTrump or something like that. It's too late for do-overs, they're already Vichy Republicans complicit in the Trumpening.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

Sure is. Either your rep is scurrying off the sinking ship or they just have a case of the stupids.

And this is a guy who wore a "special snowflake" bow tie to Trump's inauguration.
posted by diogenes at 12:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Alexandra Petri on fire: President Trump’s broken timeline

President Trump has come unstuck in time.

Years pass, and his hair grows blonder and the women around him grow younger and younger. He is a paradox.

Or maybe he is cursed. Everything he says is true, just not necessarily at the moment he says it.

posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

No, because Trump already happened, they'll have to be #NotAgainTrump or something like that. It's too late for do-overs, they're already Vichy Republicans complicit in the Trumpening.

Yeah, but they CAN make sure that nothing he promised gets passed. It's not the best of all possible worlds, but it's better than what we seem to be getting.
posted by mikelieman at 12:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Alexandra Petri has singlehandedly stopped me from hating everybody from Harvard and everyone who is both younger than me and more famous. no one else could do that except god and he isn't real
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

GOP members holding closed door conference meeting imminently.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

House is all of a sudden in recess.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

GOP members holding closed door conference meeting imminently.

You know what to do bees!
posted by diogenes at 12:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Whoa! They just recessed the House!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

No vote today!
posted by sporkwort at 12:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

House is all of a sudden in recess.

Don't tell me, let me guess. Printer's broken again, Ryan?
posted by corb at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Yeah, I see the vote is now "expected later today". You craven motherfuckers, get to it.
posted by lydhre at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I also don't think that he would understand what an "allusion" is.

of course he does, it's like a magic trick
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

MEDIOCRE!!!!!!
posted by Existential Dread at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Uhhhhh. From Costa: "President Trump just called me. Still on phone. "We just pulled it," he tells me."
posted by zachlipton at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

House into recess against Democratic calls of "Vote!"

Republicans going into immediate conference, it looks like. Come on and do it already, chickenshits.
posted by jammer at 12:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Sad!
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

> Uhhhhh. From Costa: "President Trump just called me. Still on phone. "We just pulled it," he tells me."

Yeah, but what about the bill?

(Seriously, though, good news that makes me wish we could post reaction GIFs here.)
posted by tonycpsu at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Ryan is giving "an update" at 4pm Eastern.

Are you tired of all this winning yet?
posted by zachlipton at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ryan: I'll give an update on health care reform at 4pm → ET
posted by cybertaur1 at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

You can't spell closer without l-o-s-e-r. (stolen)
posted by diogenes at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

"I don't blame Paul," Trump tells Costa

Uh huh
posted by saturday_morning at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sad? No, Hilarious!
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017

I just spent the last XX comments trying to figure out WTF TTTCS meant.

Turn the TV To C Span?
posted by yoga at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

A head-turning moment.
posted by adamg at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

The fun part about his is that it is a war metaphor about an invasion. Offensive military strategy when facing a strong defense.

But there is no defending force. There are no fortifications. Also it's their own land and they already rule it.

But being morons they laid a seige and dug their latrines directly in their own path.
posted by srboisvert at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

I feel like I need a cigarette.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I promise you'll enjoy this picture of Ryan leaving the White House.
posted by diogenes at 12:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [67 favorites]

Low energy soren_lorensen is failing badly!
posted by Chrysostom at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

You guys! Work is interfering with my obsessive watching of congressional politics! Help!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

But being morons they laid a seige and dug their latrines directly in their own path.

It's the Charge of the Shite Brigade.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Dammit, Ryan, I've been waiting all day to post that Hamilton animatic to Facebook, and now you're making me keep my powder dry longer yet.
posted by Gelatin at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I just spent the last XX comments trying to figure out WTF TTTCS meant.

Turn the TV To C Span?
posted by tobascodagama at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

yoga, Turn, Turn, Turn, Curse, Spit.
posted by lydhre at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

So... Trump's tough-guy act, his walking away from the table, his daring them to put it to a vote so he could put the No votes on his shit list... all a bluff. Ryan called it and he lost. Our master negotiator deal-closing president just got his ass handed to him.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Best birthday ever.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [83 favorites]

ArbitraryAndCapricious: "You guys! Work is interfering with my obsessive watching of congressional politics! Help!"

This is why I quit my job.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

The last fifteen minutes have made me sublimely happy. Let's hope we get even better news in the next twenty.
posted by obtuser at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

So everybody still has insurance through the weekend? Cool. Kegger on the water tower, everybody!
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?
posted by Artw at 12:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

AP is reporting the bill is withdrawn.
posted by corb at 12:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?

How would the outcome be any different?
posted by saturday_morning at 12:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

The most telling this about all of this is that Trump personally called up Costa to spin the moment this thing died, and Costa is live-tweeting it. That's surreal.

This is equally surreal: Source says "You can't always get what you want" is playing in the House conference meeting

What is even happening?
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [75 favorites]

Soooo uhhhhh whatever happened with Comey at the White House, then? Is he still there, or...?
posted by Andrhia at 12:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

shouldn't the republicans be forced to bring the bill to term
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [262 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?

No idea, but they have humiliated themselves so thoroughly in public it's hard to see them getting their shit together to try again.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" apparently playing in GOP conference room.

[real!]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

@AlecMacGillis: There's an actual massive junkyard fire underway right now just up 95 from Washington. Feel free to use as metaphor.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Republicans embody White Male Privilege and the Abuser utterly. Just, we will do whatever. Failed 50 times to repeal Obamacare, no thing, we'll just of course totally ram the shit down your throats good and hard the 51st. Wait. Or maybe not, maybe we'll just take our ball and go home haha, whatever. We've done this shit forever to all of you and we'll keep doing this shit forever to all of you.
posted by riverlife at 12:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Turns out people have some idea of what constitutes a shitty bill, so I'd bet more on chipping away at the existing.
posted by rhizome at 12:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is equally surreal: Source says "You can't always get what you want" is playing in the House conference meeting

It was creepy at the RNC, and it's creepy now. Is this all just an elaborate troll? I can't even tell anymore.
posted by corb at 12:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?

Sure, but they'll still be dealing with the same problem. The problem isn't about this particular shitty bill. It's that there's no healthcare plan that is acceptable to their entire coalition, and anything that could come close would be a disaster for the people who vote for them. There's not really a good solution to that, and I don't think one is going to materialize in a month or two.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

The Sunday gabfests are going to be hilarious.
posted by Gelatin at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Meanwhile, clerk.house.gov is down.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" apparently playing in GOP conference room.

Hopefully the polka Weird Al version...
posted by Melismata at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

guys you laugh now but right this moment paul ryan is writing HR 1724 on a copy of A Modest Proposal
posted by beerperson at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Every time the Republicans have a lousy, coalition-fracturing failure, they are making it harder to work together to pass a bill. Right now, presumably, lasting enmities are being forged among vengeful, petty people who are not really very good at policy. The more they hate each other, the more working together seems noxious, the more the narcissism of small differences is in play - the harder they'll find it to pass another healthcare bill. Kick the can down the road as far possible and they may just kick it to pieces.
posted by Frowner at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

It was creepy at the RNC, and it's creepy now. Is this all just an elaborate troll? I can't even tell anymore.

Trigger for the post-hypnotic suggestions?
posted by tobascodagama at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

This President ain’t much.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:46 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I know it is perverse but in a way I wanted this bill to pass so all the MoFos that voted for Trump would see/feel/experience their world without healthcare or greatly increased premiums.
And yes I know passing of this bill would have affected those that did not support/vote for Trump in regard to that factor it is a good thing this bill is toast however, I am sure the dismantles of the safety net (at least whats left of it) are not done with their evil work.
posted by robbyrobs at 12:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

a TV idiot is the president, all ironic musical cues are now diegetic
posted by theodolite at 12:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Sure, but they'll still be dealing with the same problem. The problem isn't about this particular shitty bill. It's that there's no healthcare plan that is acceptable to their entire coalition, and anything that could come close would be a disaster for the people who vote for them. There's not really a good solution to that, and I don't think one is going to materialize in a month or two.

This entire debacle has shown that there isn't even really a bad solution to the Republican dilemma, as not even throwing ever-more-Draconian concessions to the so-called House Freedom Caucus worked.
posted by Gelatin at 12:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?

Aren't they up against at least some sort of deadline? The current CR runs through April 28. Don't they have to do it before then?

(At least if they're going to do with budget reconciliation?)
posted by sporkwort at 12:47 PM on March 24, 2017

The spinning is starting. GOP leadership is saying Trump asked Ryan to pull the bill, while the White House is saying Trump wanted a vote and Ryan "pleaded to pull" it. They're going to tear each other to pieces.

Costa says he's typing up his story now, so I'm sure we'll have unhinged reaction from the President shortly.
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

SWEET CLYDE! LAUGH DERISIVELY AT PAUL RYAN!

Ojala que Sweet Clyde is one tired, sore-throated motherfucker at the end of this year...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

This entire debacle has shown that there isn't even really a bad solution to the Republican dilemma, as not even throwing ever-more-Draconian concessions to the so-called House Freedom Caucus worked.

That's from the POV of the GOP, right? Because from outside the GOP, this is a great solution. They took their best shots TWICE, failed both times. Third time you get laughed at for even pretending you have a chance.
posted by mikelieman at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Reward yourself by cuddling with a toucan
posted by rhizome at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

meta: after all the seriosity in #45 threads, the third-rate one liners and zevon-ing are making me lol. thanks! maybe 'gallows humor', but i don't mind. keep it up!
posted by j_curiouser at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

House into recess against Democratic calls of "Vote!"


Please, sir, may I have video of Dems taunting Rs?
posted by NorthernLite at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Trump asked Ryan to pull the bill

Again, I don't think Trump is smart enough to do any such thing.
posted by Melismata at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm refreshing Robert Costa's twitter feed as fast as I can.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

They're going to tear each other to pieces.

Jesus Christ this will be fun
posted by saturday_morning at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

It was creepy at the RNC, and it's creepy now. Is this all just an elaborate troll? I can't even tell anymore.

Trigger for the post-hypnotic suggestions?

"Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life!"

Now I have to go wash my hands just for typing that.
posted by Gelatin at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Tired of winning yet guys?
posted by MattWPBS at 12:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Costa is actually on MSNBC live now.
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

@TedLieu: Views of my constituents on #Trumpcare:
Opposed: 700,000
Not sure: 3
Support: 1 person named Guccifer
posted by Existential Dread at 12:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [96 favorites]

Costa says he's typing up his story now, so I'm sure we'll have unhinged reaction from the President shortly.

@molly_knight: Trump, who tells his followers that the Washington Post is fake news, calls the Washington Post to tell them his health care bill is dead.

@DavidCornDC: Costa on MSNBC: Trump says bill won’t be coming back in near future & he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [70 favorites]

this is basically the best possible outcome short of the proposed bill bursting into flames in ryan's hand and consuming him in a matter of seconds
posted by murphy slaw at 12:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

the third-rate one liners

Hey! My one liners are SECOND-rate!
posted by Chrysostom at 12:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yeah, Costa just said that Trump claimed responsibility for pulling it.
posted by jferg at 12:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

Bring your single payer A games, people!

(I still content that what Trump's base really wants is single payer, they just need it to not come from liberals so they aren't contractually obligated to hate it.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

There won't be another bill (that can pass). A healthcare system that covers similar numbers of people without raising costs, and isn't either single payer or a refined version of ObamaCare/RomneyCare is literally impossible.
posted by diogenes at 12:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump needs to be slammed for this failure. It undermines his central argument for his presidency:

"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."

posted by kirkaracha at 12:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

They can't get to the right of Obamacare with anything acceptable/believable as real insurance to their base and moderates because Obamacare is the right's answer to conservative "universal" coverage. And they spent 8 years pretending their own solution was a partisan Democrat thing and now have to reap the whirlwind.
posted by chris24 at 12:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

What fucking idiot tries to communicate with Trump in metaphors or historical references? Trump probably thinks you burn the boats just because fire looks cool.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

man, the line to claim that you never liked this bill and were just going along in the name of party unity is getting pretty long already
posted by murphy slaw at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

@DavidCornDC: Costa on MSNBC: Trump says bill won’t be coming back in near future & he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

medicare for all or eat shit motherfucker
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

That's from the POV of the GOP, right? Because from outside the GOP, this is a great solution. They took their best shots TWICE, failed both times. Third time you get laughed at for even pretending you have a chance.

Absolutely. Of course, if the Republicans weren't a pack of despicable quislings, they could work with Democrats to fix several of the acknowledged problems of the ACA -- the Democrats would probably even let them get away with claiming they "repealed and replaced" it, since constituents would actually be getting better health insurance. But as noted previously, the Republicans won't do that, because it'd mean they have to admit the Federal Government does have a legitimate role to play in the lives of American citizens.
posted by Gelatin at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump: I don't blame Paul Ryan. I blame myself. I had a sudden revelation that I am an unpopular president pressing an unpopular agenda, perhaps comparable to a defecation-tossing small arboreal ape of the family Hylobatidae. But I have learned from my mistakes and from now on will not shift blame and will humbly strive to do better. [fake]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Greg Nog: "This is a great outcome for a lot of reasons, but most important is that I quite like sotonohito and this means he will get to eat a delicious cake for all of us"

Ditto.

...Say, sotonohito, any chance you could, say, guarantee there is no way Trump is impeached in the next month?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

> [Trump says] he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

Oh, now he'll see if the Democrats will work with him?

FUCK YOU, CLOWN! FUCK YOU!
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump hangs up with the Post and chats to the [Failing New York] Times. What the hell is he doing?

TRUMP tells me in interview this is now the Democrats' fault, and that he anticipates that when Obama "explodes" they will be ready to deal

[I assume that's Twitter shorthand for Obamacare, not the actual guy.]
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

work with Dems on healthcare

oh that's what dread feels like
posted by schadenfrau at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

medicare for all or eat shit motherfucker

Only Nixon could go to China. Maybe only Trump and the Rs can pass single payer.
posted by anastasiav at 12:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

TRUMP tells me in interview this is now the Democrats' fault, and that he anticipates that when Obama "explodes" they will be ready to deal


NEVERMIND BACK TO CACKLING
posted by schadenfrau at 12:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Trump needs to be slammed for this failure. It undermines his central argument for his presidency:

"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."

Not to mention all those grandiose promises he made, not just during the campaign, but at his rally in Louisville earlier this week.
posted by Gelatin at 12:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

One side of HerrenvolkCare, single-payer, coming up!
posted by corb at 12:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

A healthcare system that covers similar numbers of people without raising costs, and isn't either single payer or a refined version of ObamaCare/RomneyCare is literally impossible.

Which makes me wonder: with all the fussing over the bill, how come no one is discussing the underlying problem for all of this, that is WHY THE HELL IS HEALTHCARE SO EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE? If we could focus on that, we wouldn't need all this futzing around...
posted by Melismata at 12:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

WTF is Eddie Munster going to say at 4pm?
posted by yoga at 12:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I really hope Maggie Haberman asked POTUS if it was okay if she live tweeted her call with him (after Spicey told her not to live tweet his press briefing earlier).

/just kidding, I don't care at all whether she asked, mostly fascinated by how they will pin this on Dems
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

so how's this shit playing on Fox?
posted by the phlegmatic king at 12:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

So which MeFite wants to step forward with an 11-dimensional chess explanation of how Trump has just headfaked us to our doom?
posted by howfar at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

4 PM live stream
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Paul Ryan press conference streaming here, expected imminently
posted by zachlipton at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

WHY THE HELL IS HEALTHCARE SO EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Because for an already complex and expensive service that literally every human needs and cannot make meaningful choices surrounding, the free market is extremely inefficient at controlling costs.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [77 favorites]

Washington Post, New York Times, bets he's mixed up his good and bad media lists, and Buzzfeed gets a call next?
posted by MattWPBS at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

i want to watch but this monitor is too expensive to risk putting my fist through
posted by murphy slaw at 12:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm home sick today due to a bad asthma episode, and all this cackling in glee really IS making me tired of winning.
posted by meese at 12:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

WTF is Eddie Munster going to say at 4pm?

"I have to return some videotapes."
posted by knuckle tattoos at 12:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Bannon's entire political philosophy appears to be cribbed from the pages of 300.

Or The Turner Diaries.
posted by JohnFromGR at 1:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

so how's this shit playing on Fox?

Lead homepage headline:

BREAKING NEWS: Trump has GOP ObamaCare replacement bill pulled amid faltering support
posted by chris24 at 1:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hey Republicans, don't worry, that burn is covered under the Affordable Care Act
-- Senator Bob Menendez (D) NJ
posted by murphy slaw at 1:01 PM on March 24, 2017 [200 favorites]

11th dimensional chess theory of the moment: Considering trump just went back on his promise to have no contat with the Trump Org (he now says he will see financial statements) maybe he never wanted healthcare at all and this was a very elaborate cover.

/s
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:01 PM on March 24, 2017

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

When I shout single you shout payer!
posted by cmfletcher at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

wait until the debt ceiling HAS to be increased - they won't get the votes together for THAT either

and then the real shocker will come - that next to congress, trump is actually a halfway sane person capable of some kind of half-assed leadership - or at least capable of agreeing what to have for breakfast at the prayer meeting

i know, i'm saying this all wrong and it's sounding like a compliment of trump, but congress is in the process of committing the nuclear option in its diaper - it's going to be an awful mess and it's going to put trump in the position of having to SAVE the country

god help us

this is going to get really ugly
posted by pyramid termite at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

On the Facebook live fed where we are waiting for Paul Ryan to give a statement about repeal / replace there's a sea of HaHa faces which is awesome. I bet when he comes out they'll all turn to little angry faces. I'm going to love that. It's the little joys these days.
posted by dog food sugar at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

mostly fascinated by how they will pin this on Dems

Hamfistedly, mendaciously, and with so much straight-faced hypocrisy that it will take your breath away.
posted by diogenes at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Ok, so now we need to double down on our message, which has two parts:

1. The Republicans control the government and can do whatever they want. They had eight years to come up with a healthcare plan that works. The reason that they didn't pass anything is that they couldn't come up with anything that was acceptable to their own party. Whatever happens now is their fault. They own it. No one else.

2. The way to fix Obamacare is single payer.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [76 favorites]

They're going to sabotage the heck out of Obamacare now out of spite aren't they?
posted by zachlipton at 1:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

So, this is how a bill becomes a NAAAH.

(tip your waiters)
posted by Sophie1 at 1:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Bring your single payer A games, people!
if this were a back-to-the-drawing-board, i'd begin by asking, 'what will it take to get everyone the exact. same. care. as US Senators?' i'm not a policy-expert, but i know where they could get $54B.
posted by j_curiouser at 1:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

They're going to sabotage the heck out of Obamacare now out of spite aren't they?

Yes. And I repeat: whatever happens now is their fault. If Obamacare fails, it's their fault.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

when Obama "explodes"

An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama is an overinflated bike tire
posted by beerperson at 1:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

they're going to shut the government down - not through spite, through sheer incompetence
posted by pyramid termite at 1:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump hangs up with the Post and chats to the [Failing New York] Times. What the hell is he doing?

Having a meltdown and trying to play it off like everything's cool.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

OMG that @maggieNYT tweet is the most hysterical shit I have seen in forever. THe comments/replies & gifs are fucking HILARIOUS

thanks zachlipton and HAPPY BIRTHDAY roomthreeseventeen
posted by yoga at 1:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Well happy fucking birthday to me!
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

Work with him? He can't even close a deal with his own party in the fucking majority. The correct answer to "I, Donald Trump, notable failure, would like to work with you on healthcare" is to laugh and hang up the phone. Put single-payer on his desk without his help, dare him to veto it out of spite and find out if his approval rate can drop below 30%.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Which is to say: call your Democratic congresscritters and tell them to tell Trump to get fucked.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Disaster scenario: he turns around and genuinely tries to pass something good with Dems and moderates, sowing chaos and changing the political calculus for a given bill back to narrow issues, and then teams up with the Republicans for the racist and fascist shit. Because most people actually like and want healthcare, but a bunch of them just hate black people, women, and Democrats more.

But that would require competence. Still, I want to see how the Dems respond.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Damn NO VOTE I wanted to see all the yas nays on the roster!!
posted by robbyrobs at 1:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Do we get another tantrum trip to Mar-a-Lago later like we did after Sessions recused himself?
posted by jason_steakums at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama is an overinflated bike tire

Show us the long-form inner tube!
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ok, we're on a quite a roll with birthdays. Who's up next? If we can have a MeFi lucky birthday everyday for the next four years, maybe we can make this.
posted by chris24 at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Despite what you hear in the press, healthcare is coming along great. We are talking to many groups and it will end in a beautiful picture!

- Donald Trump on March 9th
posted by diogenes at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

It really is dead, isn't it? It's not like one of those gotcha horror movies?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

WHY THE HELL IS HEALTHCARE SO EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

In part, because of end-of-life care being really expensive and not, according to many medical providers, even /useful/. But you just can't politically say it - when the Dems tried the GOP accused them of wanting death panels, and when the reverse happened there was no shortage of Dems talking about "why do you want granny to die".

I'm no statistician, but it seems like you could add significant quantities of people to the rolls if there was more of a hard cutoff for extraordinary measures that don't preserve quality of life.
posted by corb at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

I feel something I haven't felt for such a long time.

It's hard to describe.

It's not...dread, or sadness, or overwhelming crushing anger.

Could this be....

OPTIMISM?
posted by cooker girl at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

Yes. And I repeat: whatever happens now is their fault. If Obamacare fails, it's their fault.

Except it won't necessarily appear that way. They can still sabotage it so costs go up and insurers drop out, and they'll just blame Obama.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I know there's a lot of bad shit yet to come, but this was a good day.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

WTF is Eddie Munster going to say at 4pm?

"I have to go now, my planet needs me."
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 1:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

NYT story updated:

Mr. Trump, in a telephone interview moments after the bill was pulled, blamed Democrats and predicted that they would seek a deal within a year after, he asserted, “Obamacare explodes” because of higher premiums. The president said he did not fault Mr. Ryan and said that he was pleased to move past his first legislative fight. He maintained that he was merely going along with the House bill.

NBC News says that Trump is going to speak from the Oval Office, so that will be interesting. Paul Ryan on the way to the podium now.
posted by zachlipton at 1:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

the only legal remedy for any felony commited by the President is impeachment

Are you sure? I thought presidential immunity only applied to official acts in office. If that's right, it seems like a glaring omission in our constitutional design. In no other cases I know of do we grant retroactive immunity to crimes committed when somebody was a non-office holder. If you're an actual lawyer with specialty in the subject, you know better than me, but I can't remember any other cases where holding office or anything else shields you retroactively from the law.

Either way, it seems like a question there ought to be some clear answer to that doesn't create a huge contradiction in the application of law, if the rule of law is still even a thing now.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Except it won't necessarily appear that way. They can still sabotage it so costs go up and insurers drop out, and they'll just blame Obama.

They'll certainly try. And we repeat: "you control the government and can do whatever you want. You ran on the promise that you would fix it. Why didn't you fix it?"
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

... it will end in a beautiful picture!

It did.
posted by _Mona_ at 1:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

By "move past" do you mean "lose"?
posted by corb at 1:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

You just know Boehner's getting his day drink on and laughing his ass off.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [67 favorites]

wait until the debt ceiling HAS to be increased - they won't get the votes together for THAT either

Well, not from the entire Republican caucus. Ryan could do what Boehner did and do an end-run around the extreme loonies in the so-called "Freedom Caucus" and pass a debt ceiling increase with the Democrats. It might also cost him the Speakership, except that no one else seems to really want the job.
posted by Gelatin at 1:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

One side of HerrenvolkCare, single-payer, coming up!

Complete with mandated proof of citizenship and invasive questioning of patients who look "suspicious."
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Metafilter: in the process of committing the nuclear option in its diaper."
posted by Coventry at 1:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

The president said he did not fault Mr. Ryan and said that he was pleased to move past his first legislative fight. He maintained that he was merely going along with the House bill.

Trump is on record lobbying Congress and demanding a vote. I hope not even the most "he said, she said" addicted "balanced" media hack buys that line.

Memo to self: Take deep breaths before turning NPR on for the drive home...
posted by Gelatin at 1:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

"We came really close today." - Paul Ryan, marathon liar.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

Dems: Pull the Gorsuch nomination, nominate Merrick Garland for SCOTUS, and then we'll talk about healthcare. [fake, but a guy can dream]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [41 favorites]

Ryan "we came really close" than he flicks his nose CLASSIC LIAR
posted by robbyrobs at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

"The process of converting from an opposition party to a governing party involves some growing pains, and boy did we feel them today" - Ryan's opening salvo
posted by murphy slaw at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Big things are hard.
posted by vbfg at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

So I guess this isn't where we talk about how Ryan is wearing a neon-green tie that clashes horribly with his eyes. Or ask who the guy in the front row with the cowboy hat is.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

"We want every American to feel more confident about their lot in life" --Ryan

Note that he doesn't say they want to improve people's lives, just make them feel better about their shitty lives.

Ryan's now talking up how hard the President worked to pass the bill. He's not going down alone.
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump and Ryan are definitely on the same page with the insistence that Obamacare is going to explode soon. The sad thing is that they probably have many ways of making that outcome more likely without people catching on.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

> "We came really close today." - Paul Ryan, marathon liar.

What next, is he going to blame those meddling kids?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

can we retroactively apply some of this GOP failure to the 2016 elections
posted by beerperson at 1:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

You guys I just keep laughing

Also I ran out of favorites again but I love you all
posted by schadenfrau at 1:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

You just know Boehner's getting his day drink on and laughing his ass off.

Who cares what John Boehner is doing right now?

Boehner is an affable guy, and less ideologically stringent than Ryan, which lends him afterglow in this particularly cruel and chaotic moment. George W. Bush benefits from this kind of revisionism, too. But neither man deserves it.

Boehner blew just about every call of his speakership, whether he was trying to lever President Obama into signing conservative bills, or limit losses when Democrats were operating from strength. His biggest accomplishments were budget sequestration, which everyone hates, and a modest agreement he struck at the end of his career with Nancy Pelosi to fix Medicare’s physician reimbursement formula. Not only did he leave no legacy, but he left the political system in far shabbier shape than he found it.

It isn’t a huge leap to think there would be no President Trump had Boehner simply put the Senate’s comprehensive immigration reform bill on the House floor for a vote in 2013. He was widely applauded inside the beltway for mocking his own members, behind closed doors as a bunch of cowards, too scared to pass the bill they promised to pass only to chickenshit out of forcing the issue himself.

posted by peeedro at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

next thing you know we'll have a Lich King, and those are next to impossible to get rid of.

Archlich Xonolotep the Unseeing's time has come.
posted by homunculus at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

when the Dems tried the GOP accused them of wanting death panels, and when the reverse happened there was no shortage of Dems talking about "why do you want granny to die"

Comparing 100% voluntary personal advice to the widespread reduction or elimination of care entirely is either a wildly misinformed take on reality, or a pretty fucked up way to try and play the increasingly horrible "both sides do it!" game.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

I didn't realize that the whole "Party of No" stuff applied to their own legislation as well.

That's dedication.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [58 favorites]

Note that he doesn't say they want to improve people's lives, just make them feel better about their shitty lives.

no he just wants them to feel confident that their shitty lot in life is appropriate
posted by murphy slaw at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I haven't felt this good in months. Maybe this can work. Maybe we can take the House.
posted by kerf at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Everybody spare a moment to shed a tear for the young Paul Ryan, dreaming big dreams at his kegger, not knowing it would all turn to ash one day
posted by the phlegmatic king at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

We were doing the Democrats a favor, by passing this law before Obamacare exploded.
-Ryan
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

An exploded Obamacare will still be a better policy than the abomination they proposed, if only because it will still have the money that these monsters would have provided to the 0.1% as tax cuts. I'll take an "exploded Obamacare", thank you very much.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Stay frosty, there's a decent chance roving packs of freedom caucus members will try to take over a hospital and turn it into a Blade 2-esque bacchanal​ of suffering to slake their denied thirst.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Jeez I step out for an hour and they pull the bill.

How did such fuckups get into places of power? The mind reels.
posted by dis_integration at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Yeah, we're going to be living with Obamacare" -- Paul Ryan

Can someone reality check me, that I heard that in this dimension just now? Because. OK. People living is a good goal.
posted by mikelieman at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

More from Haberman:

TRUMP told me he is happy having this in the rearview mirror. "It's enough already," he said of the negotiations.
POTUS did not sound mad, showed uncharacteristic discipline as he talked about who had let him down (he said Democrats).

It sounds like he got tired of working, and clearly he planned out these calls to the Post and Times (actually, Haberman was in the building today) in advance, because he had talking points and wasn't angry.

Ryan is saying that "Obamacare is going to get even worse" and that they were doing the Democrats a favor of getting rid of it before it gets really bad. They're going to completely destroy this thing out of spite now.
posted by zachlipton at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Two notable bills out right now from the Democrats.

First, Medicare for All, which is relevant for obvious reasons.

Second, MAR-A-LAGO, which is relevant for hilarious reasons.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [77 favorites]

"Obamacare is going to get even worse"

- Speaker Ryan

Which means you're going to do your absolute best to make sure it tanks. Nice.
posted by Tevin at 1:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

In all seriousness, if you're a conservative, what reason do you have to vote Republican now?

I mean it can't be for conservative policy, given that they've proven they can't even get their shit together to vote for their primary campaign issue for the past seven years.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump and Ryan are definitely on the same page with the insistence that Obamacare is going to explode soon.

Well, neutering the mandate was lighting the fuse.
posted by Gaz Errant at 1:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Brave Sir Donald ran away (No!)
Bravely ran away away (I didn't!)
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled (No!)
Yes, brave Sir Donald turned about (I didn't!)
And gallantly he chickened out

Bravely taking to his feet (I never did!)
He beat a very brave retreat (All lies!)
Bravest of the brave, Sir Donald! (I never!)
posted by kirkaracha at 1:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Conan O'Brien, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [47 favorites]

TRUMP told me he is happy having this in the rearview mirror.

Ok, this is really the best evidence that they guy hasn't actually sat in the driver's seat for decades.

Because this failure ain't in the rearview mirror. Or maybe it's like that thing where you keep passing the same kid on the bike in a New England town over and over?
posted by mikelieman at 1:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ryan should now pull a John Galt and go drop off the grid, along with the entire Republican Freedom Caucus.

That'd show us!
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

POTUS did not sound mad, showed uncharacteristic discipline as he talked about who had let him down (he said Democrats).

Wait til the Saturday morning tweets.
posted by chris24 at 1:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

The thing is, if the Republicans are afraid of their constituents about this bill, which a lot of them are (I bet plenty of them are hugely relieved not to have to vote on it, even though they'd never say so) they are going to be even more afraid of them about just, I dunno, fucking up the debt ceiling thing.

I have some hopes that this is a hard limit for them - even their constituents won't actually concur in policies this blatently fraudulent. It's like the Milo Yiannopolous thing (and doesn't it seem like that was years ago?) - sure, it's terrible and disappointing that only the vilest, most horrible thing about a vile horrible thing actually disgusts people enough to get them to act, but at least the vilest and most horrible thing disgusts them enough to act.

Remember on January 20 when it wasn't clear to many of us whether, like, Trump would simply declare martial law? Remember when it wasn't clear that he would abide by the ruling against his travel ban? The further things go like this, with a terrible government that is still at least somewhat responsive to the popular will, the less likely we are to end up in a martial-music-on-the-radio-and-all-the-TV-stations-shut-down situation.

In a way, we're "normalizing" Trump, in the sense that Americans are still expecting their government to function like a normal government, with at least some deference to the will of the governed. This is a very, very good thing.

Keep thinking about 2020 - think with hope of the phrase "one term president".
posted by Frowner at 1:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [69 favorites]

Ryan ends with his dumbass "risk pools" bullshit. Good job.
posted by dhens at 1:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Heh.

Ahahaha.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

YEARS and YEARS of these imbeciles whining about how if they had a chance to healthcare, they would totally healthcare the best healthcare, much better than that stinky old Obamacare, which they would totally repeal the second they can and replace it with their totally awesome healthcare bill, which no you can't see it but it's totally a real bill that exists, you wouldn't know this bill, she goes to a different school.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
posted by kyrademon at 1:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [182 favorites]

I am imagining Barak and Michelle doing a fist bump, hip bump, high five dance.
posted by futz at 1:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

A nice silver lining: there won't be a vote on the AHCA, but there was already a vote for the rule to allow them to pass it, and 230 Republicans voted for it. That's 230 Republicans that Dems can credibly campaign against on the basis that they voted to throw 24 million off their health insurance. For campaign purposes, the rules vote is just about as good as the actual vote.
posted by zachlipton at 1:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [93 favorites]

The good thing about this is that this was the "easy" thing. A direct attack on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security (as opposed to the stealth hit on Medicaid in ACHA) was always going to be harder and face tougher opposition. And they couldn't even do the easy one.
posted by chris24 at 1:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA FINALLY SOME KIND OF VICTORYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Keep thinking about 2020

Good words Frowner, but let's not forget 2018.

2018 is extremely important, too.
posted by Tevin at 1:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

CNN is reporting that the in the Repub closed meeting it was decided that Obamacare stands. It is a done deal and they are moving on.No bluff, they are moving on. No word on their music choice.
posted by futz at 1:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Stocks rebound on news of GOP bill's death.
posted by rewil at 1:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [51 favorites]

In a way, we're "normalizing" Trump, in the sense that Americans are still expecting their government to function like a normal government, with at least some deference to the will of the governed. This is a very, very good thing.

Bad normalizing: Pretending everything Trump does is within the regular rules for American politics so there's no cause to panic.

Good normalizing: MAKING Trump act within the regular rules for American politics.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

Here is a gif of the bill waving goodbye for all of your celebratory purposes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

POTUS did not sound mad, showed uncharacteristic discipline as he talked about who had let him down (he said Democrats).


We're in DST, sundown is an hour later now.
posted by Freon at 1:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Thing is, Democrats always had the harder job, because they were trying to BUILD something, instead of just tearing shit down. Building coalitions and passing big legislation is hard. Throwing rocks and talking shit is easy.

This was their chance to show they're more than rock throwers, and they produced a piece of legislation that EVERYONE hated, and then FAILED TO PASS IT.

Republicans have demonstrated that this is all they can do.

Devastating.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [59 favorites]

Robert Costa‏Verified account @costareports 12m12 minutes ago

“I would say within anywhere from 5 to 12 votes,” Trump told me, of how close the GOP came to passage
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

1. That time a novice chief executive made a foolhardy promise, his erstwhile allies rushed to get it done—and it all fell apart in the end.
2. Of course, I’m talking about ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT’s classic episode, “The One Where They Build a House.”
[...]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

We're in DST, sundown is an hour later now.

I believe the Kushners are skiing somewhere, though.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, is Trump going to throw us in the briar patch?
posted by ocschwar at 1:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's hard to imagine the size of Barack Obama's grin right about now.
posted by gwint at 1:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I hadn't even thought of the sabbath angle, roomthreeseventeen, I was referencing his tendency to show signs of Alzheimer's.
posted by Freon at 1:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

I am imagining Barak and Michelle doing a fist bump, hip bump, high five dance.

I wanted to ask a pro sommelier buddy of mine on FB, "What champagne is best with Republican Tears?", but you know, although I'm an asshole, I'm not that big an asshole.
posted by mikelieman at 1:34 PM on March 24, 2017

Donnie was humiliated in front of the world and had to hold it together long enough to seem chipper and optimistic to the press - I'm sure Christie is being prepped as we speak, and orders have been placed for meatloaf to be served "scalding".
posted by jason_steakums at 1:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

CNN's Dylan Byers, talking about Trump's calls to WaPo and NYT after crying "fake news" so often: Colleague notes this is reminiscent of the way Trump used to call New York tabloids when he was getting divorced...
posted by rewil at 1:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

> "What champagne is best with Republican Tears?"

The sweat of the working class, of course.
posted by Tevin at 1:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Thing is, Democrats always had the harder job, because they were trying to BUILD something, instead of just tearing shit down.

This really the central crux of the R/D divide because it's what always happens. I think it's also a big part of anti-choice hot air from them, too, because it's something they can hold up and claim a moral highground about that does not require them to do anything but tear shit down. Banning abortion doesn't cost money, it doesn't raise taxes, it's the easiest thing in the world to crow about and make a big stink about.

Meanwhile Dems' big issues like health care and the social safety net cost money, they're huge, systemtic problems that require huge systemic solutions with a lot of complex moving parts and that shit is easy to get wrong.

The Rs get the reputation as being "responsible" and "competent" because they don't actually want to fucking do anything except destroy, and that shit is so easy, my four-year-old is practically a PhD in it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [75 favorites]

I believe the Kushners are skiing somewhere, though.

When I read "sundowning", I thought more:

Sundowning is a symptom of Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia. It's also known as “late-day confusion.” If someone you care for has dementia, their confusion and agitation may get worse in the late afternoon and evening. In comparison, their symptoms may be less pronounced earlier in the day.

than Shabbos.
posted by mikelieman at 1:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Pretty much none of my kegger dreams came true either.
posted by srboisvert at 1:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

I know the news is coming fast, but meanwhile, Flynn got thrown under another bus: Ex-CIA Director: Mike Flynn and Turkish Officials Discussed Removal of Erdogan Foe From U.S.: "James Woolsey says he attended a September meeting where other participants, including then-Trump adviser Mike Flynn, talked of moving Fethullah Gulen back to Turkey without going through U.S. extradition process"

This is discussing something that certainly sounds damn illegal while acting as a paid foreign agent for Turkey, soon before being named National Security Advisor.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [51 favorites]

So I guess this isn't where we talk about how Ryan is wearing a neon-green tie...

Seriously? That lesson didn't even last a week?
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Annnnnnd this is how fast the press allows Trump to inject his bullshit into the storyline

This is awful journalism.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.
posted by sotonohito at 11:15 AM on March 24 [20 favorites +] [!]

So, chocolate or vanilla? I'm partial to spice cake, myself.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

I say carrot, because any cake associated with this nonsense should be as orange as possible.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Warren Zevon's dad was a Russian mobster.

And he was famously OCD. And hung out with lots of alcoholics.

We should have been referencing Zevon the whole time instead of Hamilton, I guess, is what I'm saying.
posted by petebest at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

As far as the single payer push goes, in the face of the AHCA failing this seems like a really ideal time to capitalize on the outrage over how many people would lose their insurance under the AHCA and drive home the fact that the differential between universal health care and the ACA as-is is even larger, like Matt Bruenig noted. If the one is an outrage, so is the other, and the time to start adjusting the Overton window on this (a strategy that Democrats repeatedly discount for some reason, as though letting it slowly shift right in favor of "pragmatism" is somehow paying dividends that will be redeemable in some imaginary future) is while the anger is fresh in everyone's blood.
posted by invitapriore at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

I know the news is coming fast, but meanwhile, Flynn got thrown under another bus: Ex-CIA Director: Mike Flynn and Turkish Officials Discussed Removal of Erdogan Foe From U.S.: "James Woolsey says he attended a September meeting where other participants, including then-Trump adviser Mike Flynn, talked of moving Fethullah Gulen back to Turkey without going through U.S. extradition process"


That bus better be moving. This is murder, much as Gullen might deserve it.

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.


Save me a slice.
posted by ocschwar at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Re: earlier comments about "healthcare is so expensive because we keep Granny alive too long," that's not actually it.

What is it*, or part of it, is fee-for-service medical care. Your doctor/hospital makes more if they do more stuff to you. Whether you need it or not. Same with meds; doctors are rewarded for pushing prescriptions on you by pharma companies.

One of the reasons many doctors (who should know better) opposed socialized medicine was because they might end up on a salary system instead, and make less money. Though given the grind of for-profit medicine (rushing as many patients through as possible)/constant wrangling with insurance companies, maybe some of them have changed their minds on this.

Granny, in other words, is not the problem here. Not to mention that in many places Granny does not have the option to ask for a peaceful end, or even an end to treatment.

*Yes this is a very complicated topic and this isn't the only factor.
posted by emjaybee at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Breaking: Trump has asked that the truck come back. [fake. probably real.]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

How a Republican Congressman Accidentally Disclosed a Secret Intelligence Debate (New Yorker, March 24, 2017)

It started when Nunes asked, “Do Russians historically prefer Republicans to win over Democrats?” Nunes ticked through some recent elections and inquired whether the Russians supported John McCain over Obama, in 2008, or Mitt Romney over Obama, in 2012. Comey said that he didn’t know the answer.

“I’m just asking a general question,” Nunes said. “Wouldn’t it be a little preposterous to say that, historically, going back to Ronald Reagan and all that we know about maybe who the Russians would prefer, that somehow the Russians prefer Republicans over Democrats?”

Watching the hearing, this seemed like a curious line of questioning. Because members of the House Intelligence Committee often know a great deal more than they can say publicly, they sometimes use their questioning to hint at what they have learned in classified settings. Nunes’s questions seemed to suggest some broader debate, as Comey confirmed when he shut down the exchange.

“I’m not going to discuss in an unclassified forum,” he said. “In the classified segment of the reporting version that we did, there is some analysis that discusses this because, remember, this did come up in our assessment on the Russian piece.”

Nunes thanked him and turned to Representative Peter King, of New York. King was less circumspect than Nunes had been. “I would just say on that because, again, we’re not going into the classified sections, that indicating that historically Russians have supported Republicans, and I know that language is there, to me puts somewhat of a cloud over the entire report,” King said.

I didn’t notice it at the time, though I was in the room, and the C-SPAN video of the hearing doesn’t capture it, but Democrats told me that there was, at this point, a minor commotion on the dais. King had just revealed that the classified version of the report had concluded “that historically Russians have supported Republicans.”

Two Democrats, confirming what King said, told me that there was a significant fight over this judgment during a recent classified briefing. “I was really taken aback that it came up in the hearing,” one Democratic congressman on the committee told me. “I might just observe to you, if there was such a conclusion, you can bet that the Republicans would have pushed back very, very hard about such a conclusion. And I don’t want to say more than that.”

Emphasis mine.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [67 favorites]

but guys now we'll never find out about phase 2 and the other prongs
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

I say carrot, because any cake associated with this nonsense should be as orange as possible.

Please don't ruin carrot cake for me.
posted by chris24 at 1:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.
posted by sotonohito at 11:15 AM on March 24 [20 favorites +] [!]

Chocolate cake shows icing better.
posted by corb at 1:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm at the grocery store right now buying a cake mix and some frosting to write with. Pictures to follow soon.

Also, apparently my inability to be right in any political prediction continues unbroken. Hmmmm.....

I confidently predict that Trump will not resign! Mark my words he will still be president in six months!

Let's see if I can keep up my streak of total wrongness!


Also : holy Fuck I love good news for a change! Yay us!

I always knew Republicans couldn't govern but they've taken utter incompetence to a whole new level....
posted by sotonohito at 1:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [190 favorites]

It's hard to imagine the size of Barack Obama's grin right about now.

Well, this was just posted on Instagram.
posted by gwint at 1:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

Nancy Pelosi now giggling after being told that Trump just stated that he wanted to work with Democrats on health care reform [real]
posted by Theiform at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [75 favorites]

Tangerine pound cake with a mango glaze.
posted by spinifex23 at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

"We had not Democratic support" Why do you care?? You own the House and the Senate!! Just keep babbling Mr Trump
posted by robbyrobs at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

"I would just say on that because, again, we’re not going into the classified sections, that indicating that historically Russians have supported Republicans, and I know that language is there, to me puts somewhat of a cloud over the entire report,” King said.

These people do know that the USSR is not Russia and that Russia is now a right-wing authoritarian regime, right?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Trump from the Oval Office: "We were very close, it was a very, very tight margin. We had no Democrat support. No votes from the Democrats. They weren't going to give us a single vote so it's a very difficult thing to do." Obamacare is exploding and the best thing we can do politically is to let Obamacare explode. A lot of people didn't realize how good our bill was because they only looked at phase 1, it was great with phases 2 and 3. We were very, very close. "I think what will happen is Obamacare will explode, it will have a very bad year." What would be really good with no democrat support is when it explodes, if the democrats got together with us and got a real healthcare bill. I'd be totally open to it. "I think the losers are Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer because now they own Obamacare. This is not Republican healthcare." Paul Ryan worked "very very hard," thank the Republican Party, Price, Pence. "We'll end up with a truly great healthcare plan in the future after this mess known as Obamacare explodes." "It certainly was an interesting period of time. We all learned a lot. We learned a lot about loyalty, we learned a lot about the vote getting process. We learned a lot about some very arcane rules, certainly in the Senate and the House."

In response to a question, he says they're going for tax reform now. Then he complains again that they had no support from Democrats. He says yes he's confident in Ryan, "I like Speaker Ryan, he worked very very hard." "It seems like both sides [GOP factions] like Trump and that's good."
posted by zachlipton at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

This White House statement is bananas

Link?
posted by MattWPBS at 1:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

soren_lorensen: Because for an already complex and expensive service that literally every human needs and cannot make meaningful choices surrounding, the free market is extremely inefficient at controlling costs.

Elaboration: the free market doesn't have much incentive to make necessary goods and services more affordable, especially when there's significant government funding to make sure people have access to this necessary good. Doubly so when those goods and services are not easily duplicated or replaced by other sources or means. It's not necessarily a monopoly, but in a number of cases and places it's pretty close.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

It will be nice to have a celebratory beer for a change. I'ma give the drown-out-the-assholery beers a break for a minute.
posted by yoga at 1:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

I mean, you can't blame him. As Donny has said, nobody knew how complicated healthcare could be.
posted by tocts at 1:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

christ, trump's comments right now are so fucking cruel re: letting the ACA "explode"
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Warren Zevon's dad was a Russian mobster.

A Jewish immigrant to America, originally named Zivotovsky. (Nicknamed 'Stumpy.') And Warren's mother was a Mormon – that sounds like an interesting family to grow up in.
posted by LeLiLo at 1:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm having vegetarian barbecue (there is a place near me that hot smokes big blocks of tofu!) and mead tonight. It's gonna be terrific, just great, really the best, believe me, bigly.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

christ, trump's comments right now are so fucking cruel re: letting the ACA "explode"

The ads just write themselves for 2018 and 2020.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm at the grocery store right now buying a cake mix and some frosting to write with.

A retrospective of why your argument led to the wrong prediction would be more interesting, but I may be biased because I'm gluten intolerant.
posted by Coventry at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Watching Trump ramble on and on now. Thinking his words will appear in a Democratic campaign ad next year. "No Democratic support for this bill at all." That's basically an endorsement of the Democrats at this point.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

The timing for this victory is terrific.

From a grassroots organizing level, I'm going to start pushing for an independent investigation for the Russia case. ACA isn't safe forever, but now it's time to focus on the giant bear in the room.
posted by Tevin at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

Well, this was just posted on Instagram.

Pete Souza's troll game is commendable.
posted by chaoticgood at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [43 favorites]

Look, there's interesting and then there's cake.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

A Jewish immigrant to America, originally named Zivotovsky. (Nicknamed 'Stumpy.') And Warren's mother was a Mormon – that sounds like an interesting family to grow up in.

"Such nice people, so friendly, always with the brisket!"
posted by leotrotsky at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

He keeps saying how close they were, now says 10-15 votes down, maybe even closer, and keeps blaming the fact that there were no votes from Democrats. I think he's trying to convince himself he's not a loser if it was close. [He's not "the closer," he's the "close-er"]

He says that Obamacare is "imploding and soon will explode" and probably can't be saved.

Doesn't feel betrayed by the Freedom Caucus. He says no, but he's disappointed and surprised. Now he says there are things in this bill he "didn't particularly like" and we'll have a better bill.

"If we had bipartisian I really think we could have a healthcare bill that would be the ultimate." [real]

"I never said repeal and replace Obamacare within 64 days. I have a long time" [fact check: he actually talked about calling a special session to repeal it before he even took office]
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

I just called my rep's office (Karen Bass) to thank her for cosponsoring the Medicare for All bill, and shared a little chuckle with the staffer when I said, "Given the recent total failure of the Republicans' healthcare bill...." Felt good, recommend you all do it.
posted by yasaman at 1:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

David Gergen just called Trump's response "delusional, in some ways."
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

"We all learned a lot. We learned a lot about loyalty, we learned a lot about the vote getting process. We learned a lot about some very arcane rules, certainly in the Senate and the House."

I just can't get over this "we learned a lot" nonsense that Trump keeps doing. Reminds me of the joke about the Lone Ranger and Tonto.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

He says that Obamacare is "imploding and soon will explode" and probably can't be saved.

Well, as long as the implosion and explosion are in perfect balance then we have nothing to worry about
posted by Existential Dread at 1:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

For a totally incoherent rant about blaming Democrats and something about "the ultimate," that was actually really lucid for him.

@bobjherman: Health insurers still lack clarity about 2018 w/ AHCA failure. One source says they are "long-tailed cats in a room full of rocking chairs."

Insurers have to turn in their 2018 exchange offerings really soon. The GOP is suing over the cost-sharing subsides and fucked up the risk corridor payments. Nobody can trust the White House or Congress not to screw it up even more. I'm really not seeing how this doesn't end with insurers pulling out of the exchanges and/or huge premiums increases to make up for the uncertainty of what the Republicans are going to do to sabotage the system.
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

>WHY THE HELL IS HEALTHCARE SO EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

> because of end-of-life care being really expensive ...

Bullshit. Americans spend roughly twice as much per capita as citizens of every other developed country in the world, with no better outcome. Now Republicans would say we just spend too much money on old people ready to die. This myth is false or at least highly misleading. It is based on studies that only look at Medicare spending, which of course is biased to old people near death.

But more comprehensive studies looking at the entire population show that 89% of high-cost spending goes to people not near death but people with lifelong chronic conditions. Only 11% of high-cost care goes to people in the last year of life. And most important -- this is no different than any other country. Most spending is on sick people, which should be no surprise, but not necessarily end of life. So much for the myth that we are wasting money on old people ready to die.

So what does explain the high cost of healthcare in the U.S? It's not that we are consuming too much healthcare. That's what Republicans say. Amercans consume no more healthcare than other countries. What is different is how much Americans pay for healthcare. They pay roughly twice as much for each medical procedure or consumable. Twice as much for a doctor's fee, twice as much for hospital care, twice as much for an MRI, twice as much for a drug prescription. The reason we pay twice as much is other countries use government cost controls on fees and expenses allowed to be charged by providers.

So that's it. Americans aren't over consuming. They are over-paying. The idea that Americans are getting too much healthcare is a Republican myth intended to justify cuts to the poor. They want sick people, not just the old, to just quickly die to save money.

>I'm no statistician ...

You can say that again but it doesn't stop you from pushing shameful, hardhearted Republican propaganda advocating pulling the plug on sick people for unjustified reasons.
posted by JackFlash at 1:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [186 favorites]

>> He says that Obamacare is "imploding and soon will explode" and probably can't be saved.
> Well, as long as the implosion and explosion are in perfect balance then we have nothing to worry about.

Hey, that's what I tell them in Stellar Structure. Gravity making a star implode, a giant thermonuclear reaction trying to blow it apart, hydrostatic equilibrium, and you've got stars that are stable for billions of years!
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

> "We want every American to feel more confident about their lot in life" --Ryan

Note that he doesn't say they want to improve people's lives, just make them feel better about their shitty lives.

So this is from pretty far upthread, but I'm still sort of struck by how the literal meaning of Ryan's words is even worse than that. He's not saying that he wants people to feel better about their shitty lives. The literal meaning of "we want every american to feel more confident about their lot in life" is "we want every american to know their place."

It's remarkable how he can put together a bunch of terms that sound like upbeat Americanisms to produce an authoritarian, quasi-feudalist message.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [73 favorites]

Some highlights from this absolutely batshit Trump speech:

• Pelosi and Schumer are "losers" who "own it"
• Democrats are the ones who need to come up with a plan to replace Obamacare
• "I never said repeal and replace Obamacare" (he said it in many speeches including the pseudo-SOTU)
• Also: "I never said repeal it and replace it within 64 days" (he used the phrase "on day one" many times)
• Obamacare is simultaneously imploding and exploding
• The implosion and/or explosion is something Real Americans should be cheering on

posted by zombieflanders at 2:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [48 favorites]

He keeps saying how close they were, now says 10-15 votes down, maybe even closer, and keeps blaming the fact that there were no votes from Democrats. I think he's trying to convince himself he's not a loser if it was close. [He's not "the closer," he's the "close-er"]


Being 10-15 votes down means they were confident in 30-35 Republican "no" votes before any pile-on effect where fence-sitters abandon the sinking ship. That's the number he WANTS us to believe -- the one that makes it "close." This thing crashed and fucking BURNED.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

leotrotsky: I didn't realize that the whole "Party of No" stuff applied to their own legislation as well.

"I think a lot of the blame for this mess falls on the fact that this was rolled out too quickly but also that the Freedom Caucus, these 29 or so conservative members of the House - they basically only know how to exist as creatures of opposition." -- Jonah Goldberg of National Review on NPR this morning.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

"We all learned a lot. We learned a lot about loyalty, we learned a lot about the vote getting process. We learned a lot about some very arcane rules, certainly in the Senate and the House."

Who knew Politics could be so complicated?
posted by MattWPBS at 2:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

The implosion and/or explosion is something Real Americans should be cheering on

And there you have the core, central message of the GOP to its voting base: let your access to medical care be taken away so that a liberal can also suffer.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm really not seeing how this doesn't end with insurers pulling out of the exchanges and/or huge premiums increases to make up for the uncertainty of what the Republicans are going to do to sabotage the system.

This. I mean, we're all celebrating but they've already taken steps to make the ACA stop working, even if just some crazed executive orders back on Jan. 20. They'll find ways to make it worse yet.
posted by dnash at 2:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

A lot of people didn't realize how good our bill was because they only looked at phase 1, it was great with phases 2 and 3. We were very, very close.

That's going to be part of the Donald Trump Story that he tells and retells along with the three million illegal votes and the record-breaking crowds at his inauguration where God stopped the rain so that he, Trump, could speak.

Phase 2 and phase 3 are going to take on mythical proportions having the magical properties of making healthcare more affordable and better in every way for all Americans but should he ever, for any reason, have to finally reveal what Phase 2 and Phase 3 are, he will be unable to explain them with any clarity and they will ultimately turn out to be *place holder* and *TBD at a later date*.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

We learned a lot about some very arcane rules

For instance, did you know that there must be more "yes" than "no" votes for the House bill to pass a bill? Very arcane, extremely hard to understand, but this was a positive learning experience with a real bright side. Also, while we're clearing the air, many people think there is an arcane rule called "yes boats are no votes." This turns out to be a popular misconception; you cannot magically convert boats to votes by setting them on fire.
posted by compartment at 2:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [59 favorites]

Awwww poor Josh Marshall is on vacation.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Squandering the attention-grabbing gravitas of an Oval Office statement on a poorly-lit rambling press scrum is so very Trumpian.
posted by Rhaomi at 2:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

NPR would like us to know that the house intelligence committee investigation into the Trump campaigns Russia ties is sliding into partisanship.Feh. Broderism lives.
posted by Gelatin at 2:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump says he’d be “totally open” to Democrats helping on another health-care bill “when they all get civilized”
posted by H. Roark at 2:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hello, Bob: President Trump called me on my cellphone on Friday afternoon at 3:31 p.m. At first I thought it was a reader with a complaint since it was a blocked number.
posted by rewil at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

So a bunch of Republicans in the House have now taken an open, public, meaningful stand against Trump. Is there anything we can/should do to help this nascent internal rebellion along? I know they're rebelling from the right for the most part, but it seems to me that anything that breaks the Republican lockstep seems like it should be encouraged. Before today whoever defied him would have had to be the first, now that's no longer the case.
posted by contraption at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

So will the white house now reverse the 'sabotage obamacare' executive order?
posted by srboisvert at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017

Robert Costa: President Trump called my cellphone to say that the health-care bill was dead. This is a quote: "“You’re right,” he said. “I’m a team player but I’ve also said the best thing politically is to let Obamacare explode.”" He's trying to spin he never liked the bill that much anyway.

And this is a very candid statement from Rep. Joe Barton, outright admitting that they were "playing Fantasy Football" all those times they voted to repeal Obamacare before and now they knew they were playing with live ammo. We all knew it, but nice to hear one of them say it.

Please enjoy this hot-take: The myth of Paul Ryan was shattered today. It contrasts Pelosi's incredibly effective ability to whip votes, using the White House, using outside groups, getting people to call up reps and say "Tom, you might not vote for the DREAM Act? I know we haven't talked in 32 years, but..," whatever it took, with Ryan's failure to get any outside interest groups on board, build a coalition, individually lobby key legislators over months, or basically do anything that would make him remotely effective at his job.
posted by zachlipton at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [70 favorites]

People are posting a lot of "laughing Hillary Clinton" gifs on Twitter and it makes me realize that there is no light-heartedness, camaraderie or JOY among our elected officials right now. Seeing her laughing in a collegial way with Barack Obama seems so foreign at the moment.
posted by mynameisluka at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

If you're looking for something from the current White House to be soothing, here's today's photo of the day (empty room, staring at a cold fireplace flanked by two empty seats, poorly framed as it includes part of a lampshade on the left and part of a bust on the right).
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Phase 2 and phase 3 are going to take on mythical proportions having the magical properties of making healthcare more affordable and better in every way for all Americans but should he ever

He should try to heed this guy's advice:

@johnboehner @EricCantor "You can't con people…if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on." – The Art of the Deal
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 19, 2011

posted by peeedro at 2:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

And true to their previous pattern, NPR has for reaction a Republican Congress person on to complain about Obamacare.
posted by Gelatin at 2:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

"No Democratic support for this bill at all."

ATTENTION DEMOCRATS: ^This is our expectation going forward. Make us proud. Exceed Our Expectations!
posted by mikelieman at 2:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

The literal meaning of "we want every american to feel more confident about their lot in life" is "we want every american to know their place."

O let us love our occupations,
Bless the squire and his relations,
Live upon our daily rations,
And always know our proper stations.
posted by emjaybee at 2:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump says he’d be “totally open” to Democrats helping on another health-care bill “when they all get civilized”

Should they all get eloquent first?
posted by srboisvert at 2:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

mynameisluka: People are posting a lot of "laughing Hillary Clinton" gifs on Twitter and it makes me realize that there is no light-heartedness, camaraderie or JOY among our elected officials right now.

What about Trump in a truck? Oh damn, for all his fun, he looks like an intense to angry toddler. I know these were cherrypicked to make Donnie look as goofy as possible (really, not a hard task here), but still - no smiles.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump's first 63 days:

One of the largest protests in American history.

An unprecedented surge of grass-roots activism and political organizing on the left.

Two Muslim bans blocked by the courts.

Trump's National Security Advisor resigned in disgrace.

An FBI investigation into possible collusion with a foreign adversary to undermine American democracy.

Multiple high-profile lies that most Americans recognize as such.

Record-low approval ratings.

And the GOP caught bluffing with an empty hand on the signature issue that they've been shrieking about for seven years.

That's just a sample, of course.

This administration is still very much a grave threat, and we should not count on institutions to save us. But perhaps the arc of history may yet bend toward "get the fuck out of here, you loofah-faced shitgibbon"?

When fascists finally came to America, thank God they were so ear-fuckingly incompetent. The next batch might not be, and I remain deeply anxious about the future of democracy in America, and around the world. But if incompetence saves us from the current fascists – I mean, shit, I'll take it.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [154 favorites]

If I could favorite this jackflash comment 100 times I would.

So what does explain the high cost of healthcare in the U.S? It's not that we are consuming too much healthcare. That's what Republicans say. Amercans consume no more healthcare than other countries. What is different is how much Americans pay for healthcare. They pay roughly twice as much for each medical procedure or consumable. Twice as much for a doctor's fee, twice as much for hospital care, twice as much for an MRI, twice as much for a drug prescription. The reason we pay twice as much is other countries use government cost controls on fees and expenses allowed to be charged by providers.
posted by yoga at 2:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

So a bunch of Republicans in the House have now taken an open, public, meaningful stand against Trump. Is there anything we can/should do to help this nascent internal rebellion along?

The bunch of Republicans in question is the Freedom Caucus. They killed this bill because it wasn't horrible enough. I wouldn't count on their support to block future horrible things.

There were not-batshit Republicans who were wavering, but I don't think any of them took a firm no stance. At any rate, the way to help them along is to keep doing what everyone did to kill the AHCA, which is to say call and send postcards and make clear that they're risking their careers every time they support a piece of Trump's (or Ryan's) agenda.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

If you're looking for something from the current White House to be soothing, here's today's photo of the day (empty room, staring at a cold fireplace flanked by two empty seats, poorly framed as it includes part of a lampshade on the left and part of a bust on the right).

I have no idea what Clint Eastwood is trying to convey here.
posted by srboisvert at 2:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Pelosi just took off her heels and did a victory jump with MoveOn protestors outside the Capitol building.
posted by chris24 at 2:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

If Americans weren't subsidizing drug prices for the rest of the world, though, what would they be paying?
posted by R a c h e l at 2:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yes, it's absolutely not worth forgetting that a lot of the Republican no votes were because they thought the Republican healthcare bill was not cruel enough as shown by the 'revisions' to the bill the last few days.

Don't believe for a second that any Republican truly has your best interests at heart.
posted by flatluigi at 2:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

We learned a lot about some very arcane rules

Every now and then I am utterly confounded all over again by the sheer hubris of a man with no more understanding of government than a goat thinking he is qualified to run our country. Then I remember he was elected and get so so depressed.
posted by winna at 2:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

“I think the Democrats are celebrating big time," grumbled Rep. Bradley Byrne (R-AL). "This is a major victory for them.” YOU ARE NOT WRONG, SNIDELY WHIPLASH
posted by WordCannon at 2:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [49 favorites]

fluttering hellfire: This White House statement is bananas

MattWPBS: Link?

I don't have one, but let me say that WhiteHouse.gov is terrible right now. There are two main links on the front page: President Donald J. Trump's Joint Address to Congress [WATCH THE SPEECH] (from Feb. 28, 2017), and Obamacare Disaster Stories [SHARE YOUR STORIES] (a form to fill in your story, not dated)

That's it for the bulk of the front page. Seriously. No link to health care under the Issues menu. Nothing on the current page of the blog about health care (three links from yesterday, seven from today, including the previously mentioned photo of the day).

Sad.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

so ear-fuckingly incompetent

dont kinkshame
posted by beerperson at 2:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

"I never said repeal and replace Obamacare within 64 days. I have a long time"

Here's the fact check. On November 1, he said that they'll do it "immediately" and he'd even call a special session to do it faster.
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

The bunch of Republicans in question is the Freedom Caucus. They killed this bill because it wasn't horrible enough. I wouldn't count on their support to block future horrible things.

Well, that's half of them, the other half are the Tuesday Club who wouldn't support something the Freedom Caucus would. The two wings are too far apart to act as one coherent party in certain situations.
posted by MattWPBS at 2:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Don't believe for a second that any Republican truly has your best interests at heart.

They don't have to have our best interests at heart to get the knives out. They can start a fight over who gets to make it illegal for me to eat, and I won't care if the end result is that they stab each other to death. This debacle broke a Republican caucus that had been voting in lockstep into warring factions that couldn't unify to pass a bill -- hopefully those divisions will only deepen over time.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

The myth of Paul Ryan was shattered today. It contrasts Pelosi's incredibly effective ability to whip votes, using the White House, using outside groups, getting people to call up reps

Pelosi gets a lot of flak around here because she isn't charismatic and she doesn't have good TV presence, but I have great respect for her and think she is without a doubt the most effective Speaker since Tip O'Neil. Pelosi deserves credit for shepherding the Obamacare bill through after everyone else, including Rahm Emmanuel and Obama himself had given up and moved to other issues. She's the bestest. She gets shit done.
posted by JackFlash at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [123 favorites]

NPR would like us to know that the house intelligence committee investigation into the Trump campaigns Russia ties is sliding into partisanship.

F* NPR. There's supposed to be cake coming.
posted by petebest at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's telling that Trump spent all his time blaming Democrats, while Ryan didn't go there at all, because Ryan knows his job was to deliver the votes and he couldn't get it done.

Breitbart isn't going along with the "blame Democrats" strategy either; they're continuing their war on Ryan:

Republican officials in Congress and the White House are now openly discussing finding a GOP replacement to Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) as Speaker of the House, after Ryan failed to pass the American Health Care Act out of the House and misled the public and President Donald Trump when he promised repeatedly the bill would pass.
...
“This is another example of the staff not serving the president well and the weakness of the Paul Ryan speakership,” a source close to President Trump told Breitbart News. “This calls into question once again the speaker’s commitment to supporting Donald Trump and his agenda.”

“Speaker Ryan proved today that he does not have the best interests of the President at heart,” said another source close to the president. “He sold out the president and showed his word can be taken with a grain of salt. There is only one course of action that should be taken to move past this catastrophe and that is the swift removal of Paul Ryan from the speakership.”

posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

The bunch of Republicans in question is the Freedom Caucus. They killed this bill because it wasn't horrible enough. I wouldn't count on their support to block future horrible things.

Right, I'm not suggesting we count on these particular scumbags to be on our team for anything, but I think there is some significance in the rupture of party unity, and I'm wondering if there might any way to use this first real split to encourage other members of their party to consider open defiance as a viable approach, at least on an issue-by-issue basis. I guess the only thing to do is to keep up pressure at town halls and the like, but the main thing giving me hope out of this is that we've now seen the bloc can be split, and that whoever decides to go next will not have to be the first.
posted by contraption at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

In part, because of end-of-life care being really expensive and not, according to many medical providers, even /useful/. But you just can't politically say it - when the Dems tried the GOP accused them of wanting death panels, and when the reverse happened there was no shortage of Dems talking about "why do you want granny to die".

I'm no statistician, but it seems like you could add significant quantities of people to the rolls if there was more of a hard cutoff for extraordinary measures that don't preserve quality of life.

I haven't read this whole thread, because that's impossible, but I can vouch for this. My day job is updating medical records for long-term and skilled nursing facilities, and end-of-life care is fucking insane, y'all.

The average person in a nursing home is taking twenty-plus pills a day, and nearly all of them are on anti-depressants (your Prozacs, Zolofts, and the like) and anti-anxiety medications (like Xanax, Ativan, and Valium), and opioids like morphine, hydrocodone, and oxycodone. Basically America as a society is at a point where we have to dope up our elderly to the limit to make it possible to even care for them, because their circumstances are so nightmarish that they would otherwise be constantly overwhelming the nursing staff with their agitation and unhappiness. We are literally living too long. We've figured out how to make that possible, but we haven't figured out how to make that pleasant.

Of course, your mileage may vary; you may want to go out in a haze of opioids and benzodiazapines, but there's no question that it is very expensive to do that, and very profitable for the companies providing those drugs, like the one I work for. But I based on what I see in my job, I don't think it'll be very pleasant even if you are doped up to your eyeballs on morphine.

See also the various articles that pop up once or twice a year about how the doctors administering end-of-life care absolutely don't want to pass the same way their patients do. I don't have any links at my fingertips, but I know I've seen one or two on Metafilter over the past couple of years.
posted by Caduceus at 2:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Jill Biden parody account: Ironically "pulling out" is the only method of birth control covered under the #AHCA. #Trumpcare #KillTheBill
posted by Talez at 2:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

Is this what winning so much we get tired of winning feels like? I'm not tired yet?
posted by Justinian at 2:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

>> mostly fascinated by how they will pin this on Dems

> Hamfistedly, mendaciously, and with so much straight-faced hypocrisy that it will take your breath away.

When asked, an unnamed White House source replied, "Ubiquitous. Mendacious. Polyglottal. Like a couple of donkey balls", while apparently blinking in some kind of code.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

“This is another example of the staff not serving the president well and the weakness of the Paul Ryan speakership,” a source close to President Trump told Breitbart News.

Bannon

“Speaker Ryan proved today that he does not have the best interests of the President at heart,” said another source close to the president.

Bannon talking in a funny accent
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [43 favorites]

[The American Electorate and the Congressional GOP are walking through a nightclub. A group of Democrats passes and bumps the GOP's drink.]

GOP: "Yo! Hey! Which one of y'all motherfuckers..."

[Obamacare turns around, seven feet tall and built like a brawler.]

GOP: "...reformed... health care...?"

Obamacare: "I did. The fuck you gonna do about it?"

[The Electorate and the GOP exchange glances. The Electorate leaps between them.]

GOP: "Oh, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do about it! Ooh, yeah -- you lucky I don't have a majority right now, 'cause I'd repeal you in a heartbeat! You're a total disaster! Don't hold me back, America! Don't hold me back!"

[The Electorate steps aside]

Electorate: "Oh, okay, go for it."
posted by Rhaomi at 2:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

Spin hard right!!

@mitchellvii One of my favorite tricks playing poker is to bet big on a hand I know I'll lose so my opponent thinks I'm bluffing next time...

Those who understand strategy are sitting in awe of Trump the Master right now.
posted by Coventry at 2:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Alex Jones Apologizes for 'Pizzagate' Fake News

In our commentary about what had become known as Pizzagate, I made comments about Mr. Alefantis that in hindsight I regret, and for which I apologize to him. We were participating in a discussion that was being written about by scores of media outlets, in one of the most hotly contested and disputed political environments our country has ever seen. We relied on third-party accounts of alleged activities and conduct at the restaurant. We also relied on accounts of reporters who are no longer with us. This was an ever-evolving story, which had a huge amount of commentary about it across many, many media outlets.

As I have said before, what became a heightened focus on Mr. Alefantis and Comet Ping Pong by many media outlets was not appropriate. To my knowledge today, neither Mr. Alefantis, nor his restaurant Comet Ping Pong, were involved in any human trafficking as was part of the theories about Pizzagate that were being written about in the media outlets and which we commented upon.

lol. preparing for a lawsuit?
posted by futz at 2:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [56 favorites]

Pelosi gets a lot of flak around here because she isn't charismatic and she doesn't have good TV presence, but I have great respect for her and think she is without a doubt the most effective Speaker since Tip O'Neil. Pelosi deserves credit for shepherding the Obamacare bill through after everyone else, including Rahm Emmanuel and Obama himself had given up and moved to other issues. She's the bestest. She gets shit done.

Thanks for that - I have been super annoyed at the dems because sheeple dems, but this is a perspective that I will try to remember going forward from this. My criticisms of her (and Schumer) are not based on her lack of charisma or tv presence but from the dem leadership trying to hang on to power, waaaaaay past the time when they should be cultivating new dem leaders. But they have shown leadership on this and the SCOTUS nomination that I respect.
posted by bluesky43 at 2:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Those who understand strategy are sitting in awe of Trump the Master right now.

Trump's chess game has so many dimensions it turns in on itself and becomes checkers.
posted by dis_integration at 2:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I wonder if this great divide in the Republican Party could be exploited to pass some kind of electoral reform that would make third parties more viable. Right now the Freedom Caucus might feel amenable to that sort of thing.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 2:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

@mitchellvii One of my favorite tricks playing poker is to bet big on a hand I know I'll lose so my opponent thinks I'm bluffing next time...

Those who understand strategy are sitting in awe of Trump the Master right now.

Guys, this humiliating defeat is actually a stunning victory!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

If Americans weren't subsidizing drug prices for the rest of the world, though, what would they be paying?

The pharmaceutical industry couldn't be more delighted that you are parroting their lobbyist bullshit. Pharmaceutical companies spend more more on marketing and advertising than they spend on research. So why do Americans pay twice as much for pharmaceuticals? -- to pay for those non-stop boner pill ads on TV.

Most basic research into new drug therapies is done by government researchers. What pharmaceutical companies spend most of their money on is clinical trials which could be done more cheaply and effectively by government contractors, not to speak of the corruption involved in testing your own billion dollar golden pill.

Paying for-profit drug companies to do drug research is an enormous waste of money. Americans aren't subsidizing the rest of the world. They are foolishly subsidizing the pharmaceutical corporations and their executives.
posted by JackFlash at 2:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [119 favorites]

Politico's Josh Dawsey: White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset. He was far angrier about travel ban, Sessions recusal, inauguration crowd size.

Sensible minds in charge. The sensiblest. Priorities totally in the best order, simply the best. We're all gonna see, for sure.
posted by rewil at 2:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

First: the cake will be chocolate (Devil's Food in fact) because that's my favorite kind. With a cream cheese and Kool Whip topping and sparkly blue lettering (because blue is our color). I've bought the ingredients. I'll be baking later, probably pictures later tonight or early tomorrow.

Second: Coventry , I'm not sure what the answer to the "why was I so spectacularly wrong" question is yet. My first guess is that I woefully underestimated both the pettiness and mean spirtedness of the Freedom Caucus, they hated RepubliCare because it wasn't cruel enough and didn't steal healthcare from enough people.

I had assumed their hate of the ACA was bigger than their hate of giving even the smallest, tiniest, little bit of scraps to poor people and I misjudged their priorities. They'd rather have the ACA stand as the Democrat's bill than give their vote (and seal of approval) to a Republican bill that is anything less than perfect in their minds.

I could draw a parallel to the Religious Right's position on abortion: they aren't interested in any outcome, they don't really care if abortion rates go up or down, their interest is simply in making sure the government takes a stand that agrees with theirs. Similarly, and looking back on it, it seems that the Freedom Caucus wasn't actually all that interested in stopping the ACA, they were more interested in making sure that their Party took a stand that agreed with theirs.

I'd thought their priority was ending the ACA because I took them at their word, they kept saying that was their priority. Instead their priority was making sure the Republican Party was untarnished by any hint of giving poor people a break.

That's just a first approximation guess, we'll have a clearer picture as the postmortem continues, as we get interviews with various Reps, as we get a final count on who was pledging no, and so on.

I also think the presence of a tiny handful of Republicans who aren't utterly evil had a role, the moderate Republican is not yet fully extinct and by all reports they were also instrumental in the failure of the AHCA....

And that leads to some interesting questions going forward. It turns out the rumors of deep rifts in the Republican party weren't quite so exaggerated as they first seemed.

Will the Freedom Caucus learn from their experience here and moderate a bit to get the tax plan, border plan, and so forth done? Or is this an outcome they'll be satisfied with and will their priority continue to be absolute purity in the Republican Party? When TrumpTax comes down the line will they demand absolute ideological purity, presumably meaning the abolition of the IRS, the end of a progressive income tax, and replacing our entire tax structure with a flat tax? Or will they just take a "simplified" tax code that gives unto the rich and takes from the poor?

I'm going to learn from my own mistake and refrain from prediction on that one, but I think the next big thing (which does appear to be taxes) will point us to whether or not they'll compromise. If they compromise on taxes, I think it will show they're willing in general to go along with their fellow Republicans (up to a point anyway) and we'll see a fairly by the numbers passage of the Republican wish list. If not....
posted by sotonohito at 2:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

>Politico's Josh Dawsey: White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset

He likes to lose once in a while so he doesn't get tired of winnin'.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I can sort of imagine Trump *isn't* all that upset. It wasn't one of his executive orders, or appointees, or crowds. All Congress' fault.
(I can just as easily imagine that the White House is lying as usual.)
posted by uosuaq at 2:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's been so long since I've experienced a serious political victory that I'm having trouble even getting to jazzed up by this. It feels like they're just gonna reconvene in a few hours and say 'just kidding, we're still heartless Republicans so here's every one of us voting for this piece of shit'.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

>Politico's Josh Dawsey: White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset

He will be after a day of watching the news talking about what a huge failure this is for his presidency.
posted by chris24 at 2:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

So what I'm hearing is that if the Dems own healthcare now, it's time to get a single-payer bill up for a vote.
posted by jferg at 2:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

No presidency! No presidency! *You're* the presidency!
posted by uosuaq at 2:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Politico's Josh Dawsey: White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset. He was far angrier about travel ban, Sessions recusal, inauguration crowd size.

He's getting used to losing, in other words?
posted by nubs at 2:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The networks gotta put together a highlights reel of every time Trump said he's do something w.r.t. health-insurance/health-care , and lead off with it at the beginning of every panel discussion, turn to the Republican and say, "So?"
posted by mikelieman at 2:46 PM on March 24, 2017

Man, has anybody made a Downfall parody yet for "Trump finds out they don't have the votes to repeal Obamacare"? His shift from angry and energetic to resigned and whiny is creepily similar to the flow of that scene.

More seriously, depending on how this evolves over the next few days and weeks, this could be a real insight into how to stop Trump's legislative and executive priorities: just make it extremely clear up front that he's going to lose, clear enough that even he can see it coming, and he'll just give up, blame some scapegoat, and move onto the next thing.

If we can get through this with only a few tax cuts and stupid fake sellout "infrastructure" laws, the republic might yet be saved.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 2:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

He's getting used to losing, in other words?

I imagine that if he can't cheat someone while playing golf, he does a good act of, "ya got me this time, let me comp you whatevs...", then moving on to the next round, shiny object, etc.

What time is AF1 wheels-up for Palm Beach?
posted by mikelieman at 2:48 PM on March 24, 2017

Also I wanted to just say that I recognized the post cadence pretty quickly as a Warren Zevon reference, and wanted to say cheers to jferg.
posted by Caduceus at 2:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

quidnunc: Yes, but I couldn't manage to make that scan with the song. Sacrifices for art, or something.

Maybe next time fuck the cutesy post design in favor of accuracy, please.
posted by zarq at 2:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Are we required to give a funeral for this miscarriage of a bill?
posted by localhuman at 2:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

I haven't read this whole thread, because that's impossible, but I can vouch for this. My day job is updating medical records for long-term and skilled nursing facilities, and end-of-life care is fucking insane, y'all.

There is no question that the U.S. could do better with end of life care. But the motivation to change should be because we can find ways that are more humane, not because it is too expensive. End of life care can be expensive but it is not the primary driver of high healthcare costs in the U.S and shouldn't be the excuse to just unplug people. We need to do better because it gives people better lives.
posted by JackFlash at 2:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

LET SOTONOHITO EAT CAKE

… and enjoy our victory tonight, but even this has been a huge Trumpian-style distraction from all that other stuff about Nunes, Sessions and the like. I really think it may come down to taking to the streets to demand an investigation.
posted by Soliloquy at 2:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Alex Jones Apologizes for 'Pizzagate' Fake News

Wait - Paul Ryan's monstrous attack on the poor dies on the same day Alex Jones, of all people, apologizes for the Pizzagate ridculousness?

What, next you're gonna tell me David Rockefeller's snuffed it. . . . Holy shit.

TRIFECTA, people! This is not a drill! We have permission to go buy a guitar! A RED one no no wait - Yellow! Fucking neon yellow pointy-ass guitar with all kindsa electrical shit on it! AND CAKE.
posted by petebest at 2:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Pelosi deserves credit for shepherding the Obamacare bill through after everyone else, including Rahm Emmanuel and Obama himself had given up and moved to other issues.

I'm going to need some proof that Rahm Emanuel ever cared about anything on the Democratic agenda other than getting donors to pay up.
posted by srboisvert at 2:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

“Speaker Ryan proved today that he does not have the best interests of the President at heart,” said another source close to the president. “He sold out the president and showed his word can be taken with a grain of salt. There is only one course of action that should be taken to move past this catastrophe and that is the swift removal of Paul Ryan from the speakership.”

And suddenly, the volume of Killing in the Name Of drifting out of a black SUV slowly tooling down Pennsylvania Avenue massively increases.
posted by Copronymus at 2:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

WaPo analysis: Donald Trump played a game of chicken with House Republicans. Then he blinked. Bigly.

Donald Trump was elected in large part on one, loud promise: I know how to make deals these normal politicians don't. Part of that mystique — as outlined in his best-selling book “The Art of the Deal” — is the willingness to call his rival's bluff, to put his cards on the table and ask everyone else to do the same. That's what Trump did Thursday night ... It was vintage Trump, taking a gamble no other typical politician would take ... Then Trump blinked.

That's pretty clearly the conventional wisdom shaping up - he couldn't deliver, he blinked. Weak, weak, loser.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

I really thought that the House Republicans would find a way to pass this shitpile by a vote or two not because they actually wanted it to pass but because they wanted it to die in the Senate. The fact that they couldn't even do that says that the fractures in the party are deeper than I realized and that both Trump and the Congressional Rs have absolutely no idea how the hell to govern. I guess we already knew that but this was the biggest demonstration we've had to date.
posted by Justinian at 2:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

I can sort of imagine Trump *isn't* all that upset. It wasn't one of his executive orders, or appointees, or crowds. All Congress' fault.

As I said above, he doesn't really care about his agenda other than as a way to aggrandise himself. So, yeah, he's probably not mad, because he doesn't care about whether AHCA passed, as long as he can spin it so he doesn't look too bad.

Expect him to start getting mad when/if the Sunday shows call him out for failing to ram the AHCA through after repeatedly reaffirming his dedication to getting it passed.

Pelosi gets a lot of flak around here because she isn't charismatic and she doesn't have good TV presence, but I have great respect for her and think she is without a doubt the most effective Speaker since Tip O'Neil.

I'll drink to that. She's not perfect, but I think she's tremendously underrated as a politician. I hope she gets to sit in the Speaker's chair again some day.

(I still think Schumer sucks, but his promise to filibuster Gorsuch is a step in the right direction.)

So what I'm hearing is that if the Dems own healthcare now, it's time to get a single-payer bill up for a vote.

Call your critters!

From an optics standpoint, Ryan blocking the Medicare for All bill (which of course he will) or Republicans voting it down would insulate Democrats against any underhanded shit HHS does to undermine the ACA. It'll never get past the current Senate even if it gets out of the House by some miracle, but it literally cannot hurt to try at this point.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

One good point: for all of Trump's whining that no Democrats supported this stinker and his talk of how hard he worked on this, he did absolutely nothing to sell the bill to Democrats. If this was a good-faith complaint and he was actually interested in a bipartisian bill, surely he would have been quietly meeting with some Democrats to try to get them on board. But nope. He focused all his attention on the Freedom Caucus.
posted by zachlipton at 2:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Can we circle back around to Comey's WH visit earlier this afternoon? I'm antsy to know more about wtf is happening there!

Can't remember whose tweet I saw, but Comey said he was just there for inter-agency meeting. Nothing to do with Russia.
posted by chris24 at 2:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can we circle back around to Comey's WH visit earlier this afternoon? I'm antsy to know more about wtf is happening there!

The White House claimed it was routine inter-agency stuff and had nothing to do with Russia or investigations, but I think that's all we know.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Obama right now..
posted by Justinian at 2:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

So Trump has signaled to Washington that he doesn't know how to sustain a fight on an issue. He's also revealed that he has a very limited repertoire of negotiating tactics. I can only hope that his next major push is try to build his multi-billion dollar wall and to get Mexico to pay for it. The winning will go on forever.
posted by rdr at 2:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Every now and then I am utterly confounded all over again by the sheer hubris of a man with no more understanding of government than a goat thinking he is qualified to run our country. Then I remember he was elected and get so so depressed.

All day I have had this extended analogy running through my head:

An 18th century shipping company has among its fleet, the Pride of the Seas and she is the greatest ship ever built. The Captain takes it out to sail the world and always returns with the cargo filled with luxury goods and treasures. However one of the shareholders never ceases to criticize the Captain's actions. Every pirate encounter does not end with enough blood spilt, the crew is not beaten enough and every trade deal is scoffed at. Most of the other shareholders pay him no mind but some take note and wonder if perhaps somehow he could handle things better.

At last the time comes for the old Captain to retire to his country estate and enjoy his share of the profits. While most of the shipping company urges the hiring of a very experienced Captain to take the helm of the Pride of the Seas, the grumbler has finagled and bought enough proxy votes that to everyone's surprise this landlubber who has never stepped on board a ship before is given the job of setting to sea and bringing the riches of the world back to the Company's warehouses.

Half the crew being terrified of his inexperience immediately abandon ship but the other half sense an opportunity to set their own agendas. A cabin boy who knows little but how to swab a deck presents himself as First Mate. The Captain brings his family and friends with him which raises some eyebrows as all of them are inexperienced as well. Hardly has he come aboard before he goes below deck to avail himself of his cabin to take a nap. There is no one quite sure of who should take control or what should be done next but finally sails are rigged, lines unmoored and the ship with its skeleton crew majestically sails out of the harbor.

The Captain wakes from his nap and lumbers up to the top deck. He is asked where the ship is headed and what adventures await? The new Captain waves vaguely at the horizon and so the ship sails on. The next day the crew await instructions. What is the heading? Where are they sailing? What will they be trading? The Captain scans the horizon with a vague look in his eye. "We shall go where there is treasure to be found." The crew, the family, the friends all look at each other anxiously but hold their tongues. They would not want to criticize for fear of being thought mutinous.

Yet as the days go by it becomes clear that the Captain has never held a sextant, does not understand the currants, cannot name the rigging, has only a hazy idea of what the constellations are, does not know how a compass works, gets North and South confused, and cannot read a map. Plus he has not determined a destination nor does he know what the ship holds for trading purposes. Yet they sail on because how can they turn back now? Perhaps he will accidentally hit land, perhaps he fight the pirates gallantly, perhaps the ship will run out of food and water in the middle of the ocean but still the ship sails on, sturdy and resolute.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [85 favorites]

White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset. He was far angrier about travel ban, Sessions recusal, inauguration crowd size.

Welcome to RunningTheCounryMan!

Let's go to the RageBoard and see what is in the lead.

TravelBanBlock has a slight lead over SessionRecusal but inaugurationCrowdSize is still in the lead group.

HealthCareBillFailure is gaining fast and looking large with denials of upset possibly pushing it into the lead.
posted by srboisvert at 3:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

It turns out the rumors of deep rifts in the Republican party weren't quite so exaggerated as they first seemed.

I think sometimes people underestimate the rifts and the fighting in the Republican Party because everyone puts on a smiling decorum face in public. But that has absolutely nothing to do with how vicious it can get when the cameras/public are gone, it just has to do with people's sense of propriety. It says absolutely nothing about how hard they will fight.

I'm not saying people should count on it or anything, but remember just because it seems like people will "fall in line", doesn't mean it's so.
posted by corb at 3:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump called Bob Costas to give his story.

That's Washington Post reporter Robert Costa, not face of the Olympics Bob Costas.
posted by peeedro at 3:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

to my mind, pelosi and schumer haven't done shit - not even any convincing rhetoric. this a victory for dem/prog activists. dem electeds better get their fucking heads in the game.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

I defy the world at large and the inmates of this thread in particular to show me a 76-year-old outside the entertainment industry who has more charisma than Nancy Pelosi. or even half as much.

that shoes-off celebratory hop impresses me a little but knowing she wears heels to work and has done for most of the last thirty years impresses and enrages me so much more. I'm half her age and I can't do that but I'm just a weak woman with nerves and pain receptors. pelosi is made of nails and old car tires and plays the sweet old grandmother card less believably but more adorably than any other woman her age in public life. she pulls it out once in a while like an old vaudeville number that she doesn't give a fuck if you laugh at because this joke is for her. I love her and inasfar as she got us the ACA she saved my life and a lot of yours too. usually I inflate my hate sacs to their maximum capacity at the slightest provocation but I forgive a lot of garbage from Democrats who literally allow me to live.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [146 favorites]

> There is no question that the U.S. could do better with end of life care. But the motivation to change should be because we can find ways that are more humane, not because it is too expensive

Surely some elderly people take that many drugs because that's what they need? I have a relative in an old age home and she takes some serious, serious medication -- because her brain has deteriorated, and it would be cruel to withhold the drugs that stop her agitation. Yeah the home is kinda depressing and the care is not as great as it could be, but even if that were fixed she would still have her aged brain.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

to my mind, pelosi and schumer haven't done shit - not even any convincing rhetoric.

It's a comparison between the present moment and 2010.

Pelosi was able to pull together a Democratic caucus that was at least as fractious as the current Republican caucus and pass the ACA, even though it wasn't perfect (and we all know how much Democrats love to let the perfect be the enemy of the good). That's an incredible accomplishment.

Ryan couldn't wrangle a handful of ornery jackasses in his own party to vote for something they've all been itching to do for nearly a decade.
posted by tobascodagama at 3:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [64 favorites]

Trump tried to drain the swamp—he knew the best people, people you hadn't even heard of!—but then those pesky Democrats forced him to fill his cabinet with billionaires and Goldman Sachs employees. And the Russia connections are all fake news from the fake media, but the Democrats made him fire Mike Flynn.

And now he had the bestest plan to give America the bestest healthcare ever, but it's those darn Democrats again! It's like mean old Bugs Bunny tricking Elmer Fudd in a hairpiece into shooting himself in the ass, just because Fudd is huntin' wabbits.
posted by XMLicious at 3:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

The cruel double standard that could save Obamacare
More Americans now realize Obamacare helps millions of working class whites and that it's not -- as once portrayed by conservatives -- a form of welfare pushed by the first black president to help people of color, historians and scholars say.
posted by robbyrobs at 3:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

Pelosi was able to pull together a Democratic caucus that was at least as fractious as the current Republican caucus and pass the ACA, even though it wasn't perfect (and we all know how much Democrats love to let the perfect be the enemy of the good). That's an incredible accomplishment.

also something that is totally related to her ghastly great age and experience and decades of connections, all that stuff that makes people say she should step aside and go home. Do I want a younger, spryer woman for a presidential candidate next time? yup I do. For Speaker of the House? heck no. for that, the more grizzled and canny the better.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

@mitchellvii One of my favorite tricks playing poker is to bet big on a hand I know I'll lose so my opponent thinks I'm bluffing next time...

Those who understand strategy are sitting in awe of Trump the Master right now.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Please sit at my table. Please? There's a seat open on my right, which a man of your obvious tactical sophistication should prefer, but whatever. If that's your secret money making plan for a poker game, I think I can earn learn a lot from you!
posted by mosk at 3:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

robbyrobs, I was just reading that, and thinking of posting it. Definitely worth a read.

The media landscape is filled with images of the furrowed brows of anxious white residents at congressional town halls who fear they will suffer if they lose Obamacare, says Judy Lubin, a sociologist and adjunct professor at Howard University in Washington.
"When you see white working-class Americans saying that I'm benefiting and my family is getting help from the Affordable Care Act, you start to hear 'repair' not 'repeal,'" Lubin says. "Whites standing up in support of a policy changes the dynamics of the conversation."

emphasis mine
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 3:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Jumping ahead before reading:

Also, today is my birthday, so, let's do this. And by do this, I mean make Paul Ryan and Donald Trump look like fools.

Today is also my daughter's birthday! She is now six and we have been having a great day; we went to see Beauty and the Beast and built Legos and she wore her new Harley Quinn costume. She got some great books and wrist walkie-talkies and a DC Super Heroes bedspread, and I got a really great present from Washington.

And I forgot to put on my yellow tie this morning so I'm going to go do that right now. Happy Friday everybody!
posted by nickmark at 3:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Also in re Nancy Pelosi, she has done an amazing job for her constituents while wearing heels, getting her hair done to 'may appear in front of cameras at any time' standards, dressed appropriately which is much tougher for a woman (if she showed up in a charcoal suit everyday, she'd be pilloried as dour)...and she and her husband have five kids and eight grandkids. She must not have more than five minutes a day to herself.

She is by far the most underrated person in congress.
posted by readery at 3:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

He keeps saying how close they were, now says 10-15 votes down, maybe even closer, and keeps blaming the fact that there were no votes from Democrats.

Did he lose by 3 million votes again?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

CNN: Trump unhappy Jared Kushner took a powder on the ski slopes as health care bill floundered

Who knows or cares whether Trump, the guy who stopped to play with a big truck has his bill went down, is actually unhappy about it, but someone who hates Jared sure wanted us to think so.

haha.gif
posted by zachlipton at 3:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Oh how I treasure these rare, fleeting, gossamer non-abysmally-shitty days. Revel in every second, eat all the Go to Hell Paul Ryan cake, because who knows when or if there will be another?
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I still can't wrap my head around how "we're going to let Obamacare spin out and blame the democrats" works as a stated, public strategy
posted by theodolite at 3:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

>I still can't wrap my head around how "we're going to let Obamacare spin out and blame the democrats" works as a stated, public strategy

One hopes it doesn't. But yeah, normally sabotage works better if you don't wear a T-Shirt that says SABOTEUR.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Someone pointed out on Twitter that the Comey testimony was the same week as today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I still can't wrap my head around how "we're going to let Obamacare spin out and blame the democrats" works as a stated, public strategy

He says the loud parts quiet and the quiet parts loud. It's a viable strategy, but not if you tell everyone point blank that it is your strategy.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I still can't wrap my head around how "we're going to let Obamacare spin out and blame the democrats" works as a stated, public strategy

He's saying it now, but he figures that won't matter as long as he shuts up about it for 8 weeks or so prior to starting up the blame machine, and if recent history is any guide he may be right.
posted by contraption at 3:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Joint statement by Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump (circa 2013)

Just shows that you can have all the cards and lose if you don’t know what you’re doing.

Never truer words tweeted.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Utah PAC trying to raise money to put up billboards shaming Jason Chaffetz
posted by futz at 3:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

I think sometimes people underestimate the rifts and the fighting in the Republican Party because everyone puts on a smiling decorum face in public.

I truly believe that this is a byproduct of the filter bubble. In an effort to get out of my own bubble, I listen to a lot of right-wing AM talk radio. And let me tell you, in that world it's the liberals (read: all Democrats) who always present a united front. There's a ton of infighting in the GOP, especially now that they're the dog that caught the car.
posted by joedan at 3:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

What I wonder: Did the Freedom Caucus really, actually want to repeal the ACA? Or did they want to posture in such a way that they look like people who really want to repeal the ACA but in fact do not repeal it?

Many of these House members are obviously fools and bottom-feeders, but one assumes that at least a decent percentage of them are intelligent enough to notice that an end to the popular parts of the ACA on their watch would be a huge disaster.

You have to wonder how many private "just between close friends" conversations there have been about how they hope this bill doesn't pass "but of course I'd never say that".

When we get rid of these clowns, we have to improve the Democratic stock too - far too many of these people are game-players who are not fundamentally interested in policy and government.
posted by Frowner at 3:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

a man with no more understanding of government than a goat

Well, if he had the understanding of a goat, he'd support a nanny state, wouldn't he?
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [70 favorites]

That's 230 Republicans that Dems can credibly campaign against on the basis that they voted to throw 24 million off their health insurance. For campaign purposes, the rules vote is just about as good as the actual vote.

The delicious thing is, what are they going to do, say, "No, no, *I* didn't vote to repeal Obamacare! Not me!"
posted by Gelatin at 3:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is good news: the HHS Inspector General is going to look into the scuttling of ACA signup outreach when Trump took office, at the request of Sens. Warren and Murray.
posted by zachlipton at 3:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [54 favorites]

Did the Freedom Caucus really, actually want to repeal the ACA? Or did they want to posture in such a way that they look like people who really want to repeal the ACA but in fact do not repeal it?

I think they would like to repeal the individual mandate of the ACA (which whether you agree or not, has a moral component for some), kick out the supports, let it fail on its own, and then propose a form of healthcare that only affects citizens and is administered by the states.

I don't think that can happen under Trump, though.
posted by corb at 3:37 PM on March 24, 2017

I'd like to suggest a cake for every victory, but given Trump's track record so far, after a month or so we'd start losing our feet from diabetes.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Costa's story on his phone call with the President has been updated. The kicker:

As Trump tried to hang up the phone and get back to work, I asked him to reflect, if at all possible, on lessons learned. He’s a few months into his presidency, and he had to pull a bill that he had invested time and energy into passing.

What was on his mind?

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

He paused.

“Take care.”

He got everything he ever wanted and he sounds so damn miserable and I cannot tell you how happy that makes me.
posted by zachlipton at 3:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [127 favorites]

Well, thank you Lester Holt. NBC Nightly News immediately followed up the video of Trump's assertion that "We had no democrat support. They weren't going to give us a single vote" by rebutting that it failed because he didn't have Republican votes.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [54 favorites]

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

There are many good options on youtube to accompany this statement, but it's been a long week so I'm gonna go with this one.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think they would like to repeal the individual mandate of the ACA (which whether you agree or not, has a moral component for some), kick out the supports, let it fail on its own, and then propose a form of healthcare that only affects citizens and is administered by the states.

The problem with the Freedom caucus is that they think too small when it comes to stopping big government.

Why stop at healthcare? Repeal the gas tax, kick out the supports, let the bridges fail on their own, and then the a form of road transport that only citizens are allowed to use and is administered by the states.
posted by Talez at 3:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Russia's state news service applies for White House pass
posted by futz at 3:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Can't Putin just cc: them the notes when he sends them to Spicey?
posted by Freon at 3:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

From Reddit:

Obamacare took 9 months to negotiate, had 160 GOP markups, had the support of the American Medical Association, AARP, and American Hospital Federation, and twice President Obama addressed the nation directly in a prime time speech to lay out the benefits while he had a 63% approval rating.

Trumpcare was introduced on March 3rd, had not a single mark up, was not endorsed by any of the aforementioned organizations including even the Koch Brothers, and is projected to drop 24,000,000 from insurance all pushed by a President who couldn't write down 10 facts about healthcare with a 37% approval rating two months into his illegitimate Presidency.

Republican intellectualism is a lie, these people have no idea what they're doing because for the last 8 years they've been lying to themselves that Obama was a Muslim Kenyan hell bent on destroying America and now they forgot what reality actually was.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [196 favorites]

In a weird, tiny way I feel sorry for Trump.

The funny thing is that even now, if he were to go to therapy and try to do things that would genuinely make him loved or at least liked, he could have a private life that would probably make him at least somewhat happier than he is now. If he'd just stop presidenting and retire, try to repair relationships with his family, get some sycophants who actually like him a bit, etc, he would have a ready source of real love, or at least real like.

Leaving all else aside, he seems like someone who is driven further and further into a kind of life that can never give him what he obviously wants.
posted by Frowner at 3:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I love the part of Trump's statement where he says like a whole paragraph of nasty, insulting, pissy things about Democrats and then invites them to work with him on a bipartisan basis, which he thinks they'll do real soon.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

The Death of Paul Ryan, Policy Genius

Savage burn herein:

Ryan’s sparkly reputation rested partly, of course, on the soft bigotry of low expectations (better than you would expect a Republican to be!), but also on appearance. Ryan looks like a thoughtful man. He can furrow his brow in simulation of abstract reasoning.

posted by Existential Dread at 3:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [60 favorites]

then propose a form of healthcare that only affects citizens

What does this even mean?
posted by JackFlash at 3:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I always think that he doesn't understand the meaning of "bipartisan".
posted by Namlit at 3:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ok, we're on a quite a roll with birthdays. Who's up next? If we can have a MeFi lucky birthday everyday for the next four years, maybe we can make this.


Oooh, oooh! I have a birthday coming up next month!

I can't tell you what I'm wishing for (because then it won't come true), but it does involve Bannon, Gorka, and a particularly insidious strain of the cordyceps fungus.
posted by darkstar at 3:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

Trump continued: "I've been thinking about how that song, an incredible song, I love Phil Collins he's an incredible artist. I've been thinking about how that song is basically my life. He's singing about h... that you know, you're a rich guy in New York and these poor people just keep coming up to you begging for money. It's cold they say, well I can tell it's cold! Talk about stating the obvious! These poor people give you a weather report and you wonder where all this so called global warming is to help them. If the liberals were right these poor people wouldn't be cold and they could sleep in the park. Because we have very nice parks. I even tore down a park to make room for my building. Replaced it with this beautiful atrium with a couple of trees. Plenty of places for people to sleep, you know, when they pay for it because if you just GIVE people a place to sleep you'd have nobody working for their house and the economy would collapse BIGLY. Believe me.

Then... THEN! She apparently can't walk! You know, she's just come up to me, putting on this act, she's got the blisters and everything! You know how bad people do that? When they're begging for money they gotta look the part and they spend all this money on makeup and all this money on bad clothes and they just want to swindle you! It's incredible folks, believe me I know some of these people and they make hundreds of dollars a day. TAX FREE might I add. Some even quit their jobs to do it! They move on from place to place, just like in the song, once the police cotton on to them and try to arrest them for swindling the people.

But there are some people out there who are struggling folks, people like you. Those people call out to God and they want to know if there's anything that anybody can do to help them. Well I'm here to tell you that your prayers have been answered and the lord has said, through me, that I'm here to help. I'm going to make sure you all get to spend another day in paradise and, believe me, I'll make sure there's no people trying to get up in your grill when you can barely afford to make ends meet yourself! Believe me!"

[fake, so far]
posted by Talez at 3:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yet another update on the current ranking of /r/the_donald's "rising submissions" tab:

#10: To anyone brigading or thinking that today was a huge loss for Trump - DO NOT forget just who this man is!
#9: The AHCA is DEAD. We have grounds to demand Rat Ryan step down. We can now craft a BASED bill that honors the populist wing that voted President Trump in. KEK HAS WILLED IT, today is a good day Pedes!
#8: POTUS in 2014: Negotiations 101: The best deals you can make are the ones you walk away from...and then get them with better terms.
#7: TRUMP IS A SON OF A BITCH FOR REPEALING OBAMACARE! NOW: TRUMP IS A SON OF BITCH FOR LETTING OBAMACARE EXPLODE! WHAT IS THIS FAT FUCK SAYING? (referring to fox commentator Bob Beckel)
#4: Never Forget: Paul Ryan - ‘I Am Not Going to Defend Donald Trump—Not Now, Not in the Future’ - Audio
#3: Paul Ryan was just blown out the airlock, here's the Obamacare Repeal bill WE ACTUALLY WANT.
#2: *IT BEGINS* Matthew Boyle of Breitbart reports ---> GOP OPENLY DISCUSSING REPLACING PAUL RYAN AS SPEAKER!
#1: Let's be clear, President Trump and us at The_Donald have NEVER been in favor of Ryancare (a.k.a. Obamacare lite). We opposed Ryancare as much as most of r/all has and are glad to see it die. The only thing we are in favor of is a full and total repeal of Obamacare. Let's make it happen!

Holy infighting-slash-denial, Batman!
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Fred Trump is dead and in Hell and nothing will ever bring him back to tell Donald that he's a winner and a killer and old Fred is proud of him, and right now Donald is probably settling in to the fact that even becoming President of the United States isn't enough to make that not matter anymore. Feels bad, man
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

then propose a form of healthcare that only affects citizens

What does this even mean?

Presumably something that would allow undocumented people and visa holders be turned away from ERs to die in the gutter, if previous Republican efforts are to be believed.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Depends on the Freedom Caucus member?

I've been riveted by Justin Amash for the past week or so: he is a real, actual libertarian for good or ill (ill. it's ill) & really for real believes that (1) the Constitution provides Congress with extremely limited governing authority and (2) the government should do as little as is humanly possible. He's consistent: he also opposes defense expansion and police expansion and he absolutely hates Trump. From that side of the right, a pure repeal is literally the only thing that could do any good, because the AHCA deforms the markets more, not less, and he's the guy who made the obvious but somehow generally unmentioned point that gutting EHB without returning to the private market altogether would just brutalize the poor.

I believe that dude cares about the poor and cares about getting them health care, and I believe that he thinks that guaranteed healthcare is a boondoggle that'll prevent that. I just think he happens to be completely wrong on all of his premises and shouldn't govern a student council, let alone a country. But his was a real and unfeigned opposition and it was aaaaalmost fun to watch it play out.
posted by peppercorn at 4:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Ryan’s sparkly reputation rested partly, of course, on the soft bigotry of low expectations

Another great Republican epithet is coined:

Obvious Anagram Reince Preibus
Small-Handed Donald Trump
Articulate Republican Paul Ryan
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

#2: *IT BEGINS* Matthew Boyle of Breitbart reports ---> GOP OPENLY DISCUSSING REPLACING PAUL RYAN AS SPEAKER!


*rubs hands together*


"Good...good..."
posted by darkstar at 4:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump looked older at his white house comments event today, much older than just a few months ago...he genuinely looks ill.
posted by robbyrobs at 4:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

He got everything he ever wanted and he sounds so damn miserable and I cannot tell you how happy that makes me.

Here lies everything
The world I wanted at my feet
My victory's complete
So hail to the king...

(Everything you ever)
posted by PontifexPrimus at 4:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

But who would replace Paul Ryan? Gowdy?
posted by Brainy at 4:06 PM on March 24, 2017

Paul Ryan is irreplaceable.

I mean irredeemable. DAMN YOU AUTOCORRECT
posted by uosuaq at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

#2: *IT BEGINS* Matthew Boyle of Breitbart reports ---> GOP OPENLY DISCUSSING REPLACING PAUL RYAN AS SPEAKER!

*rubs hands together*

Breitbart and the Deplorables have been calling for Ryan's blood for awhile now. Still, always good to see!
posted by futz at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Based American Health Care Act of 2017 - “It’s the based!”
posted by Going To Maine at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Leaving all else aside, he seems like someone who is driven further and further into a kind of life that can never give him what he obviously wants.

Fred Trump is dead and in Hell and nothing will ever bring him back to tell Donald that he's a winner and a killer and old Fred is proud of him, and right now Donald is probably settling in to the fact that even becoming President of the United States isn't enough to make that not matter anymore. Feels bad, man

Indeed. Nothing will ever fill the hole. Best thing he could do is inspire people not to be like him.
posted by yoga at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's so nice to mark another big one in the win column. That said, continuing to apply pressure to as many different legislators as possible is key because we're still gonna get knocked around.

If, saints preserve us, we can actually take back our Congress and Presidency from the Kremlin's stooges by 2020, it will be essential to continue hounding our legislators to enact a public option (or single payer) for health care, tax increases on the extremely wealthy, and protections for women/immigrants/refugees/LGBTQ+ people and so on. We can't squander all the wonderful organization efforts that so many folks have contributed in the past few months. I hope what people take from this clusterfuck is that we can never, ever rest on our laurels (like in 2008-2010).

We have to be the party that really is for enacting real, effective policy solutions that help as many folks as possible--and, yeah, even the people who hurts us terribly by voting for that guy.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Ah memories. I recall a time (not so long ago!) when Boehner was an impotent, discredited speaker, and yet no one would willingly take the gavel from him. Now we might get to do it again! Whose career should get wrecked next?
posted by Existential Dread at 4:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump looked older at his white house comments event today, much older than just a few months ago...he genuinely looks ill

I mean, the man has gone from working maybe one day a week to working 4 days a week...in his condition that's gotta be gruelling.
posted by TwoStride at 4:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Ok, I know there's a sort of Hamilton moratorium, but please enjoy this animated snippet of You don't have the votes while thinking of #45 and the Granny-Starver tonight.
posted by TwoStride at 4:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ok, we're on a quite a roll with birthdays. Who's up next? If we can have a MeFi lucky birthday everyday for the next four years, maybe we can make this.

Well, my half-birthday is coming up next week - exactly six months away from my birthday. But if there's any good news happening, I may not be able to take it in: I'm scheduled that day for some "not too major heart surgery", getting a pacemaker implanted. But when I come back I'll be a Medicare Cyborg so I can do more to fight the good fight.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

This bunch of fucking clowns.

7 years of screaming bloody murder about Obamacare, I don't even know how many bills attempted to repeal it, and now that they control the House, the Senate, and the WH suddenly "Obamacare is the law of the land. It is going to remain the law of the land"?

Try to spin that, motherfuckers.
posted by lydhre at 4:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

So Trump has signaled to Washington that he doesn't know how to sustain a fight on an issue. He's also revealed that he has a very limited repertoire of negotiating tactics.

He's also shown he is unable or unwilling to do the political work required to sell his agenda to the American people. His health care pitch was 1) promise that everything was going to be better and cheaper, 2) repeating over and over that Obamacare is exploding, 3) say it's gotta be done to get to the rest of their agenda. That's it. There were no policy speeches, no appearances at hospitals or clinics, no rural drug addiction counsellors used as props, no support from conservative think tanks with sunny numbers, no outreach to any industry stakeholders, none of the standard things a politician does to advance their policy goals. That requires work from the president, discipline from his White House, and coordination between the White House, the party, and the swamp.

Will low energy Trump be able to sell an unpopular Great Border Wall? Will he be able to sell rewriting the tax code? His only pitch for these so far is "Big and Beautiful Wall" or "Biggest tax cut since Reagan", but these pitches don't resonate with voters when they're being asked to pay the bill. These are appeals to Trump's own ego and legacy, not to the taxpayer's interests.

To get anything big done, Trump is going to have to actually work at the job and learn how to sell his vision beyond the Fox and Friends panel. The good news is that Trump is lazy and entitled, doesn't seem to learn from his failures, and has a huge blind spot to how much work Obama put in for every one of his successes. The bad news is he might have 1396 more days to try.
posted by peeedro at 4:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

After Promising Not To Talk Business With Father, Eric Trump Says He'll Give Him Financial Reports

“There is kind of a clear separation of church and state that we maintain, and I am deadly serious about that exercise,” he says, echoing previous statements from his father. “I do not talk about the government with him, and he does not talk about the business with us. That’s kind of a steadfast pact we made, and it’s something that we honor.”

But less than two minutes later, he concedes that he will continue to update his father on the business while he is in the presidency. “Yeah, on the bottom line, profitability reports and stuff like that, but you know, that’s about it.” How often will those reports be, every quarter? “Depending, yeah, depending.” Could be more, could be less? “Yeah, probably quarterly.” One thing is clear: “My father and I are very close,” Eric Trump says. “I talk to him a lot. We’re pretty inseparable.”

Ethics experts are concerned. (Forbes Magazine)
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

Trump is going to have to actually work

That's the hardest I've laughed in the last few days, thank you.
posted by flatluigi at 4:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Actually having the power to redo Obamacare is turning out to be Kryptonite to the Republican party. Nothing could more starkly illuminate the fact that there isn't "a" Republican party and hasn't been for decades; at this point it's about four parties in loose coalition, and while they can all agree they don't like Democrats when it comes to actually doing something affirmative, they don't agree on much at all.

The Republican political majority is razor thin and only exists because of gerrymandering and propaganda and other tricks. The Republicans don't have a majority if they lose any of the loose coalition of subgroups that they call members. Problem is, there are still a significant number of moderates that don't want their constituents to lose healthcare, both because they're not monsters and they don't want to explain how it happened to their voters. There aren't many of those guys left because they've been steadily driven out over the years, but there are still enough that without them, no Republican majority.

There are also the racists who heard the Southern Strategy dog whistles who certainly don't want "those people" getting anything from their taxes, but they've also noticed that cousin Bob and his wife Martha have health insurance now and without it Bob's stent might have been a heart attack instead, and Martha might be paying a lot more for her arthritis meds. They don't want to kick "those people" off the teat if it means kicking Bob and Martha off too, and their representatives know this.

Meanwhile, at the other end of Mordor the Northern Wall the cesspool, are those fundies who don't want anyone but the rich to have anything and will screw their own constituents to the wall to make the Koch Brothers a little richer, damn the reelection and drown the government in a bathtub anyway, and those people aren't going to vote for anything that would make the first two groups happy. So it's not a solvable problem unless somebody does the unthinkable and figures out how to get support from outside the "party." The Democrats have their own factions but now they're in the position of being able to fold their arms and say "NO" while laughing.

So it's not just Trump who might not make it to the next Presidential election. The Republican party as we've known it all my life is disintegrating before our eyes, and Trump is actually helping to pull it apart because unlike many of the members desperately trying to hold the coalition together, he doesn't give a rat's ass. His insistence that they hold the vote is in this character; he would rather see a clean final failure and move on than have things drag on. I've liked to point out that Trump has a history of burning things down that aren't working for him; while we were all worried his next torch job might be on the USA, it 's starting to look like it will really be on the Republican Party.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

there isn't 'a' Republican party and hasn't been for decades; at this point it's about four parties in loose coalition

A loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires and babies.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

...These are the days of manacles and plunder,
This is the long-distance wall
posted by Flashman at 4:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset. He was far angrier about travel ban, Sessions recusal, inauguration crowd size.

I keep going back to this and I'm not sure what's more amazing; that he would be more upset about crowd size than the defeat of his and Republican's signature issue, or that someone senior on his staff volunteered that comparison.
posted by chris24 at 4:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

At last the time comes for the old Captain to retire to his country estate and enjoy his share of the profits. ... the grumbler has finagled and bought enough proxy votes that to everyone's surprise this landlubber who has never stepped on board a ship before is given the job of setting to sea and bringing the riches of the world back to the Company's warehouses.

I would watch this show on Netflix or Amazon or whatever streaming service it ended up on. But I don't want to be living in it.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Ryan accidentally gives away the plan.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

The Republican party as we've known it all my life is disintegrating before our eyes, and Trump is actually helping to pull it apart because unlike many of the members desperately trying to hold the coalition together, he doesn't give a rat's ass.

I had a pet theory in the innocent and carefree days of 2016 that this was Trump's plan all along. He would swoop in and destroy the Republican coalition, then find some innovative way to profit from the chaos. These days I don't believe that Trump has plans to speak of or can even think further ahead than his next tee time at Mar-o-Lago, but Republicans are in a world of shit nonetheless.
posted by Glibpaxman at 4:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure what's more amazing; that he would be more upset about crowd size than the defeat of Republican's signature issue

Because it's not his signature issue; yeah he campaigned on it but it was never very important to him. His ego is epoxied to other things.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump:

We will immediately repeal and replace ObamaCare - and nobody can do that like me. We will save $'s and have much better healthcare!

posted by kirkaracha at 4:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Basically America as a society is at a point where we have to dope up our elderly to the limit to make it possible to even care for them, because their circumstances are so nightmarish that they would otherwise be constantly overwhelming the nursing staff with their agitation and unhappiness.

Makes this episode of Grimm look like a real upper.

Leaving all else aside, he seems like someone who is driven further and further into a kind of life that can never give him what he obviously wants.

Seriously, when I get finished typing up numerous notes on the book "Emotional Vampires" I need to post it to one of these threads. It's taking me forever, but it is so poster child Donald. Suffice it to say "he will never be satisfied." (Sorry. Can't help the Hamilton.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

The White House spins to the Post: ‘The closer’? The inside story of how Trump tried — and failed — to make a deal on health care

Even as he thrust himself and the trappings of his office into selling the health-care bill, Trump peppered his aides again and again with the same concern, usually after watching cable news reports chronicling the setbacks, according to two of his advisers: “Is this really a good bill?”

In the end, the answer was no — in part because the president himself seemed to doubt it.

There's a ton of access journalism going on in here, largely in the service of the hope that Trump keeps calling up Costa to chat, so it depicts him as an effective dealmaker, but it still paints a picture of a guy bumbling around, determined to make some kind of a deal, without any regard for the actual polices he's creating. It sounds like he thought he could schmooze his way to a deal by buttering people up and showing them the Oval Office, without doing the months worth of hard work to actually talk policy and build support.
posted by zachlipton at 4:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

"He's also shown he is unable or unwilling to do the political work required to sell his agenda to the American people."

I think he really wasn't very invested in this one, you can tell by his shrugging phone call at the end. And I think the reason he wasn't invested is because he couldn't understand any of it. And if he couldn't understand it, he couldn't sell it. But he did like the sound of "fixing health care." He just naively assumed that, with control of both houses, Ryan and McConnell would get it done, and all he'd have to do is at best bash a few heads together at the end and ta-da, winning!

He'll be much more invested in things he does understand. The #fuckenwall is fish in a barrel for him because it's a goddamn wall, either it exists or it doesn't, so I bet he'll invest way more effort into that. Tax changes will be tougher because he certainly can't understand the problems with tariffs, but again I think we'll see much more fight there because he can understand businesses paying less taxes.

But now he has more enemies in the GOP than he did before... they'll be taking his "vote for this or lose your seat" words and throwing them back at him any day now with "Trump needs to take us seriously or he'll be a one term president." Maybe one of them will remember that Mexico is supposed to pay for the wall!

I guess I'm feeling a little bit optimistic today.
posted by rouftop at 4:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Trump Says He Never Promised to Quickly Repeal Obamacare. Here’s a Bunch of Times He Promised Exactly That.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

without doing the months worth of hard work to actually talk policy and build support.

I think we've identified the problem there...
posted by suelac at 4:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

RED ALERT TRUMP IS STAYING IN DC THIS WEEKEND WHOOP WHOOP.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Trump calling up NYT, WaPo etc reminds me of that scene in Catch Me If You Can where Abagnale calls up Handratty at Christmas just to talk to a familiar voice.
posted by yoga at 4:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

What is Trump's motivation? I'm at a loss. Let's take a moment to appreciate how easy it would be for him to have 60%+ approval ratings right now.

Republicans don't give a shit about the deficit when a Democrat isn't President; this is known. They would happily vote on a giant budget-fucking tax cut at the drop of a hat. Trump just has to scrawl on the back of a napkin "Cut income taxes 10% across the board" and send it over to Paul Ryan for immediate passage. Ryan can't refuse that offer. Democrats can't possibly filibuster it in the Senate without dooming their midterm chances. That's it! They don't even have to pay for it.

2018 rolls around and every GOP congressrat can run on "We cut your taxes by 10%!", and even though half their constituents don't pay federal income tax, they'll get tickertape parades celebrating their fiscal responsibility and limited government bona fides. Trump starts every rally with "How do you like your new lower taxes? Good stuff right? Thank you thank you! Every American, paying less taxes, it's a beautiful thing". It's easy. It's really, really easy.

So why not just... do that?
posted by 0xFCAF at 4:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

RED ALERT TRUMP IS STAYING IN DC THIS WEEKEND WHOOP WHOOP

He needs a long nap.
posted by valkane at 4:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump's signature policies are racism and tax cuts for the rich. He's not actually a libertarian, so it makes sense that he doesn't really care all that much about the ACA outside of blustery rhetoric.

Now the travel ban? Yeah, of course he was pissed.
posted by jaduncan at 4:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

There's a ton of access journalism going on in here,

What's access journalism?
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:51 PM on March 24, 2017

I find it heartening to see how much Trump hates his job. I think he genuinely believed that he would be in some kind of king-like position where he would be able to make decrees and the apparatus of government would carry them out for him. I really doubt that it ever occurred to him that Democrats were actually working hard on things like health care and immigration; he just thought that they were obstructionists and ideologues and that once he was in charge things would get done the way he thinks they should be. He is such a low-information president that the alternative probably never occurred to him. The fact that he's showered with criticism every day, and that other powerful people have been blocking many of his decrees, seems to really be taking a toll on him.
posted by Dr. Send at 4:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [78 favorites]

"Trump has a history of burning things down that aren't working for him; while we were all worried his next torch job might be on the USA, it 's starting to look like it will really be on the Republican Party."

Quite likely. After 241 turbulent years the political institutions of the United States have proven they're strong enough to withstand a Trumping, but the modern Republican Party began with... I don't know, maybe Reagan? It's less than 40 years old (maybe even less than 30 if you start counting with the "Contract With America" crew that came of age in the '90s) and probably can't take the strain.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Fred Trump is dead and in Hell and nothing will ever bring him back to tell Donald that he's a winner and a killer and old Fred is proud of him...

Indeed. Nothing will ever fill the hole. Best thing he could do is inspire people not to be like him.

As if he'd even be able to. "These are the chains I forged in life! Check it out, they're bigly bigger than yours! They are the best chains! I am the King of Chains!"
posted by XMLicious at 4:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

What's access journalism?

To a reporter, having access to public figures (e.g. being called on in news conferences, or being able to get them to sit down to interviews) is very valuable. It allows them to write stories based on their own work (versus summarizing events), and is the basis for a lot of the work they get paid for.

"Access journalism" refers to members of the press compromising their reporting (e.g. softball interviews, not asking hard questions in press conferences) so as not to jeopardize their access to these figures in the future.
posted by tocts at 4:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

I wonder if Paul Ryan has shared his Obamacare Disaster Story on Whitehouse.gov yet.
posted by WordCannon at 5:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [59 favorites]

Hey guys whats poppin? I've been spending all day gloating on social media what's happening with that cake tho?
posted by supercrayon at 5:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

What's access journalism?

There's a decent summary here, which cites the Columbia Journal Review: "Access reporting tells readers what powerful actors say while accountability reporting tells readers what they do." In short, the Washington Post, and Robert Costa in particular, has access right now. The President of the United States calls the guy up on his cell phone to tell him that they're pulling the bill before Ryan even has a chance to tell his own caucus. That access allows you to do certain things, like chat with the President and ask him questions at such a critical moment, but it also limits what you're going to say and how you can say it, because you want such calls to keep coming in the future.

In this case, the story is clearly told from the White House's perspective, and depicts Trump as an active wheeler-and-dealer, working hard to pass the bill. It gets its digs in, to be sure, but no doubt there are a bunch of things that Trump would read and smile and say "yeah, I did that, yay me." I have no doubt a story told from the House perspective would look rather different.

That's not to criticize the Post or Costa, and this really isn't entirely a puff piece, especially if you read between the lines a bit, but any story built on the basis that the President immediately calls up a reporter after his bill goes down is going to be based on certain norms of access, and the parties involved aren't going to want to jeopardize those relationships.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Remember that Trump's most successful and most visible enterprise before this was "The Apprentice" and he did NOT run that show. Mark Burnett did. Nobody on Team Trump is nearly as competent than Mark Burnett is, and his competency is not in making things work, but making them LOOK like they're working. Trump's "deal making" was always 50% promising what he can't deliver, 25% bullying and 25% cheating his 'partners', none of which will get the results he wants here. I, for one, hope he doesn't drop dead from a coronary or makes a perp walk from the Oval Office before his one massive failure of a term ends. Pence is not very competent himself, but he has the possibility of succeeding at some of his goals, all of which are awful.

What's access journalism?
It's why Robert Costa got a personal phone call from The Donald today. Although I think Trump thought he was calling Bob Costas.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Trump’s Choice on Obamacare: Sabotage or Co-opt?. A good explainer on what happens now and what insurance companies are going to be looking for in the next few weeks as they decide what to offer in the exchanges for 2018. The House's lawsuit over cost-sharing (it is amazing that this is an actual thing) chief among them.
posted by zachlipton at 5:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I still can't get over this from Joe Barton:

Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) admitted as much as he left the meeting Friday. Reporters asked why, after Republicans held dozens of nearly-unanimous votes to repeal Obamacare under President Obama, they were getting cold feet now that they control the levers of power.

“Sometimes you’re playing Fantasy Football and sometimes you’re in the real game,” he said. “We knew the president, if we could get a repeal bill to his desk, would almost certainly veto it. This time we knew if it got to the president’s desk it would be signed.”

Dude. You're not supposed to actually say that!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [141 favorites]

We are literally living too long. We've figured out how to make that possible, but we haven't figured out how to make that pleasant.

I've seen other mentions about end-of-life care in the States, and I'm a little confused. You do know that in other countries people are living longer and not spending as much on health care?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Ivanka Trump Lives in Washington, Works at the White House, But isn't an Employee Subject to Federal Rules

-- But all of this doesn't sit well with government watchdogs, who are urging President Donald Trump to officially hire his daughter. They wrote a letter to White House counsel Don McGahn Friday that claims Ivanka Trump's position "creates a middle space that does not exist,” The Associated Press reported. The letter signed by two former White House lawyers states: “On the one hand, her position will provide her with the privileges and opportunities for service that attach to being a White House employee. On the other hand, she remains the owner of a private business who is free from the ethics and conflicts rules that apply to all White House employees.”

-- “This is untenable. She can make a decision at any time not to comply and there’s no penalty or sanction whatsoever,” he told the AP. “We don’t normally have White House employees voluntarily complying with rules that were enacted to protect the American people.”

The White House has denied that Ivanka Trump's role is a problem. She will “voluntarily comply with the rules that would apply if she were a government employee, even though she is not,” her attorney Jamie Gorelick said this week.

And she gets all the perks.

Trump Kids’ Aspen Ski Trip Will Require 100 Secret Service Agents: Report

Another source told The Aspen Times that the number of agents would likely be much fewer than 100.

A Secret Service source tells PEOPLE that a total of 100 Secret Service personnel to staff the trip is “reasonable,” given that each of the President’s children plus their spouses and children have security details that must be manned in three daily shifts to provide 24-hour security.

But the organization itself would not confirm or deny the number of agents assigned to the Trump children in Aspen. To some critics, the exact number didn’t matter, only the expenditure of tax-payer dollars to pay the tab.

Mysterious Aspen ski rental contract may relate to Trumps

The U.S. Secret Service signed a contract last week for more than $12,000 with the Aspen Valley Ski and Snowboard Club for rental ski equipment and clothing, according to a federal government website.

However, the club doesn't rent ski equipment and the club's director said Friday he knew nothing of the contract.

"I see all the checks that come through here and I certainly didn't see one from the Secret Service," said Mark Godomsky, AVSC executive director. "For me, this is entirely out of the blue."

The $12,208.25 contract was signed March 10 and is good through March 23, according to the Federal Procurement Data System website. The contract is for "lease or rental of equipment, clothing, individual equipment and insignia," according to the website.

The contract might be related to a visit to Aspen this weekend by three of President Donald Trump's children — Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — and their families. The large contingent of Trumps is scheduled to arrive in town later today or early Sunday, according to law enforcement sources who requested anonymity.

Other details of the contract listed on the federal website also made little sense Friday.

Demented Donald:

Trump unhappy Jared Kushner took a powder on the ski slopes as health care bill floundered

And I am unhappy that Donnie goes-a a-golfing while the US flounders. I am glad that your security blankies were MIA Donnie. They wouldn't have mattered. You would have FAILED even if they had been by your side.
posted by futz at 5:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Guys, I know you won't want to hear this, but I really think we've been outplayed today. I think this whole thing was fixed so that no matter who won, there was one side that would come out a winner. Look I know people don't want to hear about 8 dimensional chess but I've got this sinking stomach feeling we were all outmaneuvered here.

I think sotonohito set it up so he'd win either way. Either the AHCA goes down, or he gets cake. And we walked right into it, like a bunch of trusting fools.

I am so ashamed.
posted by supercrayon at 5:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [149 favorites]

I find it heartening to see how much Trump hates his job. I think he genuinely believed that he would be in some kind of king-like position where he would be able to make decrees and the apparatus of government would carry them out for him

That was my position before the election, and why I preferred Trump over Cruz. But what I didn't anticipate was that the people who he chose to try and run the government for him would be a bunch of corrupt Nazi wannabes. The problem is he so alienated the few sensible Regionals that there was no one left to join him but the Breibart Brigade. I thought there be adult supervision, and there's none.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

> Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) admitted [they didn't expect to actually repeal Obamacare under Obama] as he left the meeting Friday...

Eh, I welcome his honesty, even if the strategy that underlies it is shit. The R's are clearly the dog that caught the car, and they deserve to get run over by it. I don't feel bad knowing that they knew in their hearts that they'd never actually catch the car while Obama was POTUS. Now that Trump is POTUS, things got uncomfortably real for them in a hurry. They need to actually govern, a skill which they have failed to demonstrate to this point. I don't think they're going to learn how to govern quickly, but I do think they will learn some lessons from today's defeat. To think they won't learn from this defeat is too much hubris for my own side to have at the moment. People do learn, and people do adapt. I'm glad they lost this fight so bigly, but they may be better prepared next time. Although I'm not how they could be any less prepared, tbh.
posted by mosk at 5:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Remember that BuzzFeed vroom vroom article? (If not, go read it right now.)

They're printing it up as a picture book: "A fun day in the life of our Commander-in-Chief, The President and the Big Boy Truck is a fun read for ALL ages that shares the story of a special day for the President and his love of trucks."

(To be clear, this could actually have been a kind of endearing moment for a normal President, but it's a really bad look when you do it as you're blissfully unaware that your signature campaign promise is going down in flames.)
posted by zachlipton at 5:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Hillary Rodham Clinton: Today was a victory for all Americans.

That, donny boy, is how you revenge-twitter.
posted by Dashy at 5:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [65 favorites]

The large contingent of Trumps

If being childishly amused at the mental soundscape this phrase evokes in me is wrong, I am incapable of being right.
posted by howfar at 5:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Fox News Fires Comptroller Judy Slater, Accuses Her of Racist Comments and Behavior

Slater, who is white and has worked at Fox for 19 years, was accused of asking one African-American employee if all three of her children were fathered by the same man, according to an individual familiar with the matter.

She also referred to African American women as “sista” and stereotyped African American employees’ speech, openly complaining that they mispronounced words, the individual said.

In another incident, she responded to a good-night message from two African-American employees who stopped by her office by raising her hands in a “Hands up, don’t shoot” gesture, a slogan associated with the Black Lives Matter movement, the source said.

19 years she got away with this vomitus shit. Fox has taken a lot of body blows in the last few years with many of those blows coming in the last few months. Good. Fuck'em.
posted by futz at 5:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

I'm glad they lost this fight so bigly
there was no *fight*. the (r) house tripped over their own shoelaces. elected dems cannot be permitted to think that they *won* anything.
posted by j_curiouser at 5:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

My browser tab for this thread says "he's been up all night", and it keeps putting me in mind of Bob Dylan:

he's the President now, and it makes me ill
he's been up all night, standing at the windowsill
hear that noise from the top of the Hill?
he's gonna be impeached, and they'll never pass the bill
posted by uosuaq at 5:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

elected dems cannot be permitted to think that they *won* anything.

Look, I'm not going to pretend this was some major legislative coup for the elected Dems, but keeping two hundred representatives and senators largely out of sight while the GOP shot itself in the face over and over again was a conscious decision and they deserve to be applauded for staying out of things and letting the people see what happens when the monkeys try to run the circus. They did the right thing here and it paid off.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [150 favorites]

Trump unhappy Jared Kushner took a powder on the ski slopes as health care bill floundered

That's what happens when people have unofficial administration roles. They have no responsibilities.
posted by srboisvert at 5:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Philip Klein is managing editor of the Washington Examiner. He hates really Obamacare, to the extent he wrote a book called "Overcoming Obamacare: Three Approaches to Reversing the Government Takeover of Health Care." He wants the whole thing gone and things the free market will magically fix everything. And he just wrote an incredibly scathing piece: GOP cave on Obamacare repeal is the biggest broken promise in political history that's actually worth reading:

Here's the bottom line: Republicans didn't want to repeal Obamacare that badly. Obamacare was a useful tool for them. For years, they could use it to score short-term messaging victories. People are steamed about high premiums? We'll message on that today. People are angry about losing insurance coverage? We'll put out a devastating YouTube video about that. Seniors are angry about the Medicare cuts? Let's tweet about it. High deductibles are unpopular? We'll issue an email fact sheet. Or maybe a gif. At no point were they willing to do the hard work of hashing out their intraparty policy differences and developing a coherent health agenda or of challenging the central liberal case for universal coverage. Sure, if the U.S. Supreme Court did the job for them, they were okay with Obamacare going away. But when push came to shove, they weren't willing to put in the elbow grease.

There was a big debate over the course of the election about how out of step Trump was with the Republican Party on many issues. But at if anything, this episode shows that Trump and the GOP are perfect together — limited in attention span, all about big talk and identity politics, but shying away from substance.

Failing to get the votes on one particular bill is one thing. But failing and then walking away on seven years of promises is a pathetic abdication of duty. The Republican Party is a party without a purpose.

There's another section in there I really want to quote, but it's too long to stuff it all in this thread, where he says "I think Paul Ryan owes Nancy Pelosi an apology" and compares the 13 months the Democrats spent negotiating the ACA to Trump giving up after 17 days, comparing him to Groucho Marx in "Duck Soup."
posted by zachlipton at 5:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [54 favorites]

Slate A Way Forward What Democrats should do to capitalize on the defeat of Trumpcare

It almost goes without saying that Democrats have an unprecedented gift. By simply describing the AHCA and the GOP effort to pass it, they can tie their opponents to dysfunction and cruelty. They can show, in vivid terms, what the Republican Party would do to the public if it had the chance—if it could get itself together. Democrats have no excuse; they should blast the Republican Party with its failure and use the opportunity to tout a comprehensive plan for improving the Affordable Care Act. This could take several forms. They could embrace Sen. Bernie Sanders’ call for universal Medicare; they could introduce a public option to the exchanges, coupled with more generous subsidies; they could announce a plan to federalize and expand Medicaid even further; or they could do a little of each, writing a simple proposal that opens Medicare up to older Americans not yet on there, provides greater subsidies in the health care exchanges, and closes any coverage gaps with Medicaid. And in the short term, they can pressure individual states to adopt the Medicaid expansion as it exists. Whatever the path they choose, Trump’s health care quagmire gives Democrats a chance to move the ball forward and show Americans a real path toward affordable insurance and universal coverage.

The Hill ObamaCare gets new lease on life

Larry Levitt, a healthcare policy analyst at the Kaiser Family Foundation, said that the "Trump Administration has plenty of options to facilitate the collapse of the ACA marketplaces if they wanted to."

He noted that on its own, the administration has broad authority to stop enforcing ObamaCare's individual mandate, which could destabilize the market.

The administration could also cancel ObamaCare payments known as "cost sharing reductions," which reimburse insurers for giving discounts to low-income people, but that Republicans have argued are being paid out illegally without congressional authorization. Insurers could bolt from the market without those payments.

The administration, though, might not want to cause chaos in the health system by taking steps to undermine the law.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Vox I’m glad ACA repeal failed, but I’m angry about it too

Yet we should also take a few minutes to be angry, furious even, about the sad last act of this long political showdown, one that consumed, as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell put it this week, “the better part of a decade.”

Consider this: Long before Donald Trump came along, the Republican Party ran four election campaigns — 2010, 2012, 2014, and 2016 — on the promise to rid the country of the hated and oppressive Affordable Care Act, or “Obamacare” as they alone called it until 2011, when President Obama unwisely embraced the epithet. In three of those four elections, they captured another arm of government, all on the promise of ACA repeal: the House in 2010, the Senate in 2014, and the White House in 2016. [...]

Yet in all this time, the Republican Party never fully articulated an alternative, beyond phrases like “patient-centered” or “market-based.” (The ACA is, in fact, a market-based system.) It’s now seven and a half years since Eric Cantor, then the Republican whip and a rising star, promised a full alternative to the ACA “within a few weeks.” The various repeals Republicans passed were rough sketches, doomed to failure in the Senate or veto, purely symbolic votes.

And then, when the moment came, when Republicans finally had full control of government, it took barely two months for them to admit they hadn’t really thought it through.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

I had a coworker who used this as his stock response to "How's it going?" He was never not sarcastic. I don't think anybody who says this is ever not sarcastic.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

elected dems cannot be permitted to think that they *won* anything.

If anything this was an Own Goal, but players have been killed for such things in the past...
posted by Atom Eyes at 6:05 PM on March 24, 2017

I hope what the Dems do now (after their strategic and beautiful silence, and after they shoot down Gorsuch) is to push for Medicare expansion. Both in the states that have, until now, refused, and to younger and younger inclusion ages until it is, what's the word - universal.

The GOP has done such a nice job of laying the groundwork - after this fight, there's a clear increase in both support for and understanding of what the ACA does. Let's build on that!
posted by Dashy at 6:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Here's the bottom line: Republicans didn't want to repeal Obamacare that badly. Obamacare was a useful tool for them. For years, they could use it to score short-term messaging victories.

Is that not how Republicans used the abortion issue? Republicans really didnt/dont want to fully repeal abortion rights because having it in place is a useful tool.
posted by robbyrobs at 6:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Vice The law no one asked for Students can now carry concealed guns on campus in Arkansas

Over the strong objection of a university chancellor, Arkansas legislators approved a measure this week to allow people to carry concealed weapons in college campuses, bars and government buildings.

Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, flanked by Arkansas House legislators and a gun lobbyist, signed House Bill 1294 on Wednesday, expanding the locations where concealed handguns are allowed. The new state law will take effect Sept. 1.

Arkansas will become the 11th state to allow concealed weapons on campuses. And although Arkansas politicians have for several years promoted legislation to liberalize gun restrictions on public campuses, neither the university leadership nor the students have been asking for them.

The reasoning behind this bill (of course) is to keep people safe from massacre killers who are attracted to places like schools. Would-be killers will now think “Hey, I may run into a concealed carry holder, maybe I need to think to myself I am not going to kill people on an Arkansas college campus today,” Collins said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Charles Pierce: It's Not Just Bannon. Destroying the administrative state is the longstanding purpose of the Republican Party.

We Had a Good Run. The president* just ran over the concepts of logic and reason.

Flint Is Just the Beginning. Really. 3,000 counties have it twice as bad as Flint.

The Republican Party Cannot Govern. As a result, healthcare is that much more affordable for a bit longer.
posted by homunculus at 6:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

Now imagining The Donald with Phil Collins' (lack of) hair...
Giggles.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think it was 80% own goal, but it was also 20% grassroots pressure, and that's important to remember, because we need to keep up the grassroots pressure. It won't always work, but it can work, and we need to keep calling and sending postcards and showing up and yelling at town halls.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

Another incredibly honest GOP quote:

As the prospect of a loss became more real on Friday, the frustrations of GOP lawmakers loyal to the leadership began to boil over. “I’ve been in this job eight years, and I’m wracking my brain to think of one thing our party has done that’s been something positive, that’s been something other than stopping something else from happening,” Representative Tom Rooney of Florida said in an interview. “We need to start having victories as a party. And if we can’t, then it’s hard to justify why we should be back here.”

Again, this isn't the sort of thing you normally say out loud, let alone on the record.

I've seen a few tweets that indicate that the GOP is just a mess this week on a pretty personal level. Like not speaking to each other in the hallways kind of thing. They've got to fund the government by April 28th, and the debt ceiling needs to be addressed shortly. How the heck are they supposed to do that when they won't even say "hi" to each other?
posted by zachlipton at 6:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [111 favorites]

WaPo Ivanka Trump’s Secret Service detail roiling her D.C. neighbors

Friedman and other neighbors were far less patient when two “No Parking” signs appeared outside the Trump-Kushner house and Secret Service SUVs began swallowing spots on Tracy Place NW, their block in the Kalorama neighborhood.

Their exasperation peaked Monday when city workers installed two additional “No Parking” signs — not in front of Trump’s house, but outside Friedman’s residence next door. [...]“Are you kidding me?” asked Marti Robinson, a trial attorney who lives across the street. “This is the adult child of the president. Sometimes there are 10 cars out here.”

Metal barricades along Tracy Place and Kalorama Road now make it impossible for pedestrians to use the sidewalk bordering the house. Neighbors talk of clusters of Secret Service agents lingering on the pavement, conversing in loud voices and even changing their shirts in public view.

“They’ve completely taken over the whole street — as if they have the authority!” said Robinson

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

If I could snap my fingers and make an idea go viral it would be for everyone to call up their Republican representatives tonight when their staff is off and just fill up the voicemail with this
posted by jason_steakums at 6:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I had a coworker who used this as his stock response to "How's it going?" He was never not sarcastic. I don't think anybody who says this is ever not sarcastic.

A day in the White House is like a day on the farm. Every meal a banquet! Every paycheck a fortune! Every formation a parade! I LOVE living in the White House -- President Apone
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

"just another day in Paradise" is something suicidal people say before they realize that they're suicidal.
posted by dis_integration at 6:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I felt sorry for ivanka's neighbors in that article until I read that they sent them an engraved welcome note and thought they'd be an asset to the neighborhood. Then it was just more people amazed that the leopards eating faces party was eating their faces.
posted by winna at 6:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [66 favorites]

From zachlitpon's Obamacare critic's tears:
At no point were they willing to do the hard work of hashing out their intraparty policy differences and developing a coherent health agenda or of challenging the central liberal case for universal coverage. Sure, if the U.S. Supreme Court did the job for them, they were okay with Obamacare going away. But when push came to shove, they weren't willing to put in the elbow grease.

Because universal coverage is popular. Not so popular that Republican voters are clamoring to pay for it with tax increases, but pretty fucking popular. Most people like living. Most people, excluding Republicans, don't like seeing their neighbors dead in the streets. The pre-ACA situation finally, at long last, became untenable and the stars aligned to do something in spite of Republican obstruction on behalf of the rich. There was never a coherent rationale or popular support for going back.

There's never been a compelling argument against universal coverage. Oh, Republicans cite costs and taxes, but that argument is flatly refuted by the dozens of other coutnries around the world with workable systems, and further blunted by the fact that everyone who has coverage already pays out the ass for it. Which is why Republicans never really even tried to run against the idea of universal coverage. They resorted to lies about death panels and job killing, whatever that means, and blatantly racist signaling against that N-word in the White House. Never, "we're against everyone having health care". Even in victory, Trump won on the opposite message, bigger, better, cheaper care for everyone.

Republicare, fuck you, die in a ditch care, tax cut care. That never had any appeal to anyone other than Paul Ryan, r/the_Donald, and hate radio zombies. They still may be 30% of the electorate, but that's not enough. This time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

I hope what the Dems do now (after their strategic and beautiful silence, and after they shoot down Gorsuch) is to push for Medicare expansion.

Once more, with feeling.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Ivanka Trump’s Secret Service detail roiling her D.C. neighbors

If you think health care fuckery generated opposition just fuck with Urban homeowner's on street parking and watch the world burn.
posted by srboisvert at 6:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [52 favorites]

Their exasperation peaked Monday when city workers installed two additional “No Parking” signs — not in front of Trump’s house, but outside Friedman’s residence next door. [...]“Are you kidding me?” asked Marti Robinson, a trial attorney who lives across the street. “This is the adult child of the president. Sometimes there are 10 cars out here.”

No more free and convenient spots to park your car in the middle of a huge city. Yet another human right the Trumps have violated.

Schadenfraude level 7/10.
posted by indubitable at 6:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Politico describes the President's concerns with the bill:

For weeks Trump had seemed disinterested and disengaged from the specifics of the health care fight, both behind closed doors with his aides and at public rallies. Trump “just wanted to get something he could sign,” said one adviser who talks to him frequently. “He was over it.” He would often interrupt conversations on the law to talk about other issues, advisers and aides said.

In one phone call with Ryan earlier this month, Trump told the House speaker that he had a problem with the bill. It wasn’t over Medicaid expansion, maternity coverage, deductibles or insurance premiums. Rather, it was that he didn’t like the word “buckets”—which Ryan had been using to describe the parts of their plan.

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,” Trump said, according to two people familiar with the call. Trump preferred “phases.” Ryan agreed and adopted the term.

He had absolutely no clue what was in this thing. During the campaign, his position, to the extent one could derive meaning from his words, ranged from single-payer to complete libertarian paradise. It's astonishing how little he cares.
posted by zachlipton at 6:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

They're printing it up as a picture book

Ordered and shipped to the BBOTUS.
Big Boy of the United States
posted by kirkaracha at 6:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

until I read that they sent them an engraved welcome note and thought they'd be an asset to the neighborhood.

Ha!

Welcome to the neighborhood, we'd love to dine with you and hopefully gain some status and insider access. Here's to hoping our property values go up up up!

*Secret Service occupies the neighbor's precious parking spaces*

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU! Our next note will be in crayon, not engraved! WAAAAAAHHHH.
posted by futz at 6:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Once again I have been on MeFi binge-watching America: the unReality Show since breakfast. Please tell the writers I really enjoyed today's "Hoist With Their Own Petard" episode. More like this please.
posted by valetta at 6:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

Politico describes the President's concerns with the bill:

That easily ranks with the best photos of the President’s hair.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Fuck you! Fuck the prime interest rate and the secretary of state!
posted by vrakatar at 6:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,”

Well, he's right of course, and if you're printing up glossy flyers for your auto detailing business that's a point. To make. By, let's say, management. But when you're discussing national healthc WHERE'S THE CAKE?!?!? Hm? Oh! Sorry. Yes.

Buckets.
posted by petebest at 6:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

WHERE'S THE CAKE?!?!?

Based on everything I've read here at Metafilter today, I can say with confidence that the cake is not a lie and we'll soon see evidence of its deliciousness.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

This auspicious day calls for a modification of the traditional Lily Tomlin riff: Please don't stop talking about that caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

According to the Daily Beast, the night before his bombshell press conference, Nunes jumped out of an Uber he was in with a congressional staffer after receiving a message on his phone. His whereabouts were unknown for the next several hours:

"By the next morning, Nunes hastily announced a press conference. His own aides, up to the most senior level, did not know what their boss planned to say next. Nunes’ choice to keep senior staff out of the loop was highly unusual."

Sooooo, that's interesting?
posted by dry white toast at 6:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

"just another day in paradise paranoia"

Personal Disclaimer: 25+ years ago I had a dream gig writing comedy, including parody song lyrics. Of course I did the above. I also did a parody of Van Halen's "Jump" as "Trump". And a then-current one of Ollie North turning "Funky Cold Medina" into "Funky Cold Marine". Life was simpler then.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

WTF is behind Trump next to the reproduction of Andrew Jackson on horseback?

Is it a rack of Keurig cups?

A set of slammers for his next game of pogs?

Truck-driving pins?

I NEED TO KNOW.
posted by mostly vowels at 6:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

The cake is out of the oven and cooling, sheesh y'all are an impatient bunch. I'll frost it in around 20 minutes when it won't just melt the frosting to death instantly. Pictures in 25 or so minutes.

I ask you in advance to excuse my awful icing writing skills. I mean, my handwriting is bad enough, but when I try to write on a cake with frosting it looks... well it doesn't look good. My kid once asked me **NOT** to write "Happy Birthday" on his birthday cake. Ok, not really, but he should have.
posted by sotonohito at 6:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

Is that not how Republicans used the abortion issue? Republicans really didnt/dont want to fully repeal abortion rights because having it in place is a useful tool.

After 9/11 George W. Bush had record-high approval ratings and in January 2003 Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. Bush "supported a constitutional amendment that would outlaw abortion, except in cases of rape, incest or when a woman's life is at stake" during the 2000 election. If they didn't do it then, when will they ever?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:01 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

California Upholds Auto Emissions Standards, Setting Up Face-Off With Trump
posted by piyushnz at 7:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

If they didn't do it then, when will they ever?

The big difference here is state control of legislatures. I don't have numbers off the top of my head about the difference between the naughty oughties and today, but the GOP has worked hard to gain control of many more state legislatures over the past 15 years. A constitutional amendment ratified by 2/3 of the states outlawing abortion is entirely within the realm of possibility now, and, unlike this healthcare debacle, it's the kind of thing they don't have to crack the whip to get conservatives behind.
posted by dis_integration at 7:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

mostly vowels: They look like challenge coins to me.
posted by valkane at 7:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Bush "supported a constitutional amendment that would outlaw abortion, except in cases of rape, incest or when a woman's life is at stake" during the 2000 election. If they didn't do it then, when will they ever?

They have to do it through the Supreme Court. An Amendment requires a 2/3 majority of both Houses. They're never come close to having that.

Don't be fooled, they really will do it. Gorsuch is another step on the road. They only need to replace Kennedy and it will happen.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU! Our next note will be in crayon, not engraved! WAAAAAAHHHH.

I forgot to add that all will be forgiven when the Kushner's invite the neighbors over for cheese and crackers. Neighbors will obsequiously RSVP only to find upon arrival that the invitation ends at the Kushner's front door as a secret service agent passes them each one cracker with cheese on an autographed napkin through the mail slot.

Neighbors all log into eBay within seconds to sell their cheese, cracker, and napkin thereby lowering the value of their "buy it now" shame. Parking anger escalates. Stay tuned.
posted by futz at 7:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's called a piping bag, sotonohito. Get hip.
posted by valkane at 7:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,” Trump said, according to two people familiar with the call. Trump preferred “phases.” Ryan agreed and adopted the term.

I've said this before, but Trump is the living embodiment of the bike-shed effect.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Or the "ugly dog" trick so beloved of graphic designers.
posted by aramaic at 7:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,”

Is that you Don Draper?
posted by srboisvert at 7:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Andrea Mitchell reported on MSNBC this afternoon (repeated this evening by Matthews & Maddow) that she has heard from a very reliable source that WH staffers & former transition team members are "purging" their personal phones fearing subpoenas.
posted by zakur at 7:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

I feel like I should admit something here. I was reading a lot of comments fairly quickly this morning while trying to get some work done to try to get caught up before Spicey Time and the avalanche of vote news started. So I got the gist that sotonohito was predicting that the AHCA would pass and that, if he was wrong, he would "print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here" And I didn't really stop to think about all the meanings of the word "print," so in my headcannon all day, I've been assuming sotonohito was going to literally print out his comment, like with a laser printer, and bake the resulting piece of paper into a cake. I am now quite relieved to find out that this isn't happening.

Also, please enjoy: Basketball Fans Treated To Ads Congratulating Republicans For Repealing Obamacare. The American Action Network PAC was so sure this was going to pass, they bought ads asking people to call their reps to thank them for repealing Obamacare, and well, they aired anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

My iphone purges sympathetically whenever there's a subpoena. I was going to do an askme about it, but my next door neighbor is a congressional page for Devon Nunes and I lost the bookmark.
posted by valkane at 7:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,”

How about 'baskets'? Would that be less deplorable?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Andrea Mitchell reported on MSNBC this afternoon (repeated this evening by Matthews & Maddow) that she has heard from a very reliable source that WH staffers & former transition team members are "purging" their personal phones fearing subpoenas.

If true, this is almost certainly a violation of the Federal Records Act and official National Archives guidance.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Andrea Mitchell reported on MSNBC this afternoon (repeated this evening by Matthews & Maddow) that she has heard from a very reliable source that WH staffers & former transition team members are "purging" their personal phones fearing subpoenas.

18 U.S.C.§1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations.
posted by Justinian at 7:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

former transition team members are "purging" their personal phones fearing subpoenas.

If true, holy shit they are in a world of hurt. They have been told over and over to preserve all comms. I actually hope it is true b/c that means that they are hiding something and covering it up by destroying government records. In most cases deleting something off a computer is a fantasy. Keep fucking up GOP.
posted by futz at 7:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [58 favorites]

Too bad those are the only copies of their phone messages.
posted by uosuaq at 7:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [68 favorites]

mostly vowels is probably also right, but 18 USC 1519 is AFAIK punishable by 20 years in prison so it seems like that would take precedence.
posted by Justinian at 7:28 PM on March 24, 2017

18 USC 1519 is AFAIK punishable by 20 years in prison

I am not going to discount the possibility that they're stupid and incompetent, but it is also possible that they're trying to cover up something that is worse than that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

"The cover-up is worse than the original crime." Where have we heard that before?

Unless, of course, it isn't.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I hope you enjoy this NYT headline as much as I do:

Republicans Land a Punch on Health Care, to Their Own Face
posted by zakur at 7:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

Yeah, to my knowledge the FRA does not apply to transition/pre-inauguration staff the way it does to post-inauguration staffing. But yes, weeks ago the WH staff was told by its own General Counsel to preserve everything related to Russia, so....
posted by mostly vowels at 7:32 PM on March 24, 2017

Whoops, WaPo link is broken. Here's another one.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:34 PM on March 24, 2017

mostly vowels is probably also right, but 18 USC 1519 is AFAIK punishable by 20 years in prison so it seems like that would take precedence.

It's a great plan to delete comms, because outside of the possible 4 FISA warrants that are known about literally nothing could be externally stored by the FBI. Otherwise I'd feel like that was an opening for an enterprising agent to threaten anyone who'd deleted the communications that the FBI CI unit(!) already has stored with a 18 USC 1519 charge if they don't start talking.
posted by jaduncan at 7:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Also, please enjoy: Basketball Fans Treated To Ads Congratulating Republicans For Repealing Obamacare.

There was a "please call your Rep and ask them to pass AHCA!!!!" ad on MSNBC in my region not long ago. Maybe an hour or two?" I just gaped at it in pleasure at seeing a hunk of PAC money go right down the crapper for no reason whatsoever. I'm wondering if the ad traffic people are "accidentally" being a teeny little bit slow to pull things. Oopsie!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I am not getting any "MSM" hits for Andrea Mitchell's story. Is anyone else?
posted by futz at 7:35 PM on March 24, 2017

Look What House Intel Committee Chair Nunes Hath Wrought

Nunes said the information was collected legally, but his vague and cagey claims were seized upon in a rush of breathless, speculative, and, in some cases, incorrect reports that claimed Trump was telling the truth about having his "wires tapped" all along. The Obama administration spied on the then-President elect, these news outlets agreed (the cat was well out of the bag before Nunes’ office conceded Thursday afternoon that he didn’t know “for sure” that intelligence agencies actually collected communications from Trump or his staffers.)

FFS.
posted by homunculus at 7:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm not seeing any links, but I personally saw a chunk of the Mitchell story replayed on Rachel Maddow.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

With apologies to The Who and the lovely Eminence Front...

The prez lies
And people forget
The spray flies as Sean Spicer lies
And people forget
Forget they're hoping
The rich fucks smile
And people forget
The bullshit stacks as the pollsters track
People forget
Forget they're wanting
Behind President Trump
President Trump, he's a liar
It's President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
It's President Trump
President Trump, he's a liar
President Trump
It's President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
He's a liar, he's a liar, he's a liar
Come and play the Mar-A-Lago
Links today
Won't you come and play the Mar-A-Lago
Links today, golf today,
Coke blows,
People forget
The young girls lay, the hair's thin
People forget
Forget they're fearing
The news goes
People forget
Their rates splash, hopes are dashed
People forget…
Behind President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar...
It's just President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
It's President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
He's a liar, he's a liar, he's a liar
Golf now
Play the Mar-A-Lago
Golf now
Play the Mar-A-Lago
Golf now
Play the Mar-A-Lago
Links today
Golf today, golf today
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Are we required to give a funeral for this miscarriage of a bill? (localhuman)

I think tradition is to send any possible remains to Pence.
posted by nat at 7:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

The cake is finished, and I'm eating my words even as I type this.

I must remind you, do not click on the following link to the cake pictures unless you are willing to endure seeing the worst cake writing you will ever see, and that's including stuff you see on cakewrecks.com. Really, my cakewriting skills are at the level of an excited six year old.

Here's the link to an imgur album of The Cake.

My son likes to help, he's ten, so that's his hands in the first picture spreading on the topping.

I don't like icing or frosting, it's too sweet for me, so I top my cakes with a softened block of cream cheese mixed and smoothed with 1/4 cup of sugar and some vanilla extract. Once I've got the cream cheese nice and mixed and easily malleable, I blend in a container of cool whip. Makes for a topping everyone can live with.

The cake itself is a Duncan Hines boxed Devil's Food cake. I do pretty much all of my cooking from scratch, but I never could get the hang of cakes and the boxed product works well enough so I just gave up on making my own cake and have been using boxed cakes without regret or shame for years.

So enjoy people. I sure am, both the cake and the win!
posted by sotonohito at 7:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [339 favorites]

zachlipton Sorry, don't have a cake printer, but that would have been awesome if I did!
posted by sotonohito at 7:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Outstanding, sotonohito.

And I had my celebratory vegetarian barbecue and mead. Tomorrow we fight on, but today we enjoy the sweet.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Ivanka Trump’s Secret Service detail roiling her D.C. neighbors

In addition to all the Trump-specific conflicts of interest and taxpayer-money-wasting lifestyle, maybe we should think twice about backing old-ass presidential candidates with multiple fully adult children in general. Especially if we insist on electing 1%ers. The Secret Service detail has to be the most expensive in history by now. How many separate residences are they covering on any given day?
posted by p3t3 at 7:46 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm not seeing any links, but I personally saw a chunk of the Mitchell story replayed on Rachel Maddow.

For the record, I am not doubting at all. Video can take awhile to get posted and on msnbc transcripts an take anywhere from a week to never. sigh. msnbc sucks at transcribing. I am probably old school but I would rather read an article than watch a video. Apparently I am a dodo bird.
posted by futz at 7:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

The cake is finished, and I'm eating my words even as I type this.

What do you do if you get your NCAA brackets wrong? Play with half a dozen puppies?
posted by Talez at 7:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [48 favorites]

Infowars put up a video of Alex Jones reading his statement backing away from Pizzagate. He apologizes!! Comments and voting turned off, natch. Hee hee.

Other titles of infowars videos from today alone: Benghazi Hero: Ready To Arrest Soros, Photos Of Beautiful Women Posted By James Woods, Why Are Globalists Executing Russians / Trump Right On Jewish Attack, Is Inbreeding A Root Cause Of Radical Islamic Terror?

The top rated comment under the Photos Of Beautiful Women Posted By James Woods video: "You can't bury the damn apology video by posting more videos. You keep losing followers (including me) and I'm pretty fucking angry right now."

hee hee hee
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

sotonohito is it ok if we repost & repurpose the middle picture for memetic celebrations of future Republican failures
posted by prize bull octorok at 7:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

That is a glorious cake.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Sorry, don't have a cake printer, but that would have been awesome if I did!

I was like WTF is a cake printer...*lightbulb* lol. I am totally cracking up. Thanks for that!
posted by futz at 7:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

A Republican Fiasco Years in the Making
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Tromp had no idea what was in the AHCA. He didn't even know what a HUGE fuck job it was. All he knew was that some minions were putting something together and he was going to take credit for "whatever politicians do when they do it." Like writing bills and legislating.

I have to give the Donald some credit though...he's probably the greatest sham/scam artist in U.S. history. He shammed and scammed his way to the very top. THAT is an accomplishment.

It only happened though because the FUCKING REPUBLICAN PARTY is a band of nitwits hell-bent on their quest to out-moron each other.

Today, we, and hopefully EVERYBODY saw those mother fuckers for what they really are; SYCOPHANTS in the service of CORPORATE OVERLORDS. Each one an ass kissing piece of shit begging for scraps from BILLIONAIRES and entirely UNABLE to function as competent legislators. Losers, failures with completely immoral and reprehensible ideology.

I've been trying to explain this to friends and family since the MOTHER FUCKING '80s. If you can't spend 30 seconds to google "southern strategy" and see what's really going on, well then, fuck you. I don't have time for you.

Today was a good start. Let's keep it up! Cheers to my fellow MeFites and freedom fighters today!!!
posted by snsranch at 7:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

Cake printers are totally a thing, apparently. And now I want a cake printer.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Also, please enjoy: Basketball Fans Treated To Ads Congratulating Republicans For Repealing Obamacare.

Let's assume the act passed. What am I supposed to do here. Call up and say "thank you for taking away my essential health benefits"? Or maybe "thanks for making my policy unaffordable"? Maybe they want me to call up and say "thanks for bankrupting rural hospitals by screwing them on uncompensated care and DHS payments"?

I can think of many things to call a rep about if they passed the AHCA. "Better health care" isn't a single one of them.
posted by Talez at 8:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Infowars put up a video of Alex Jones reading his statement backing away from Pizzagate. He apologizes!! Comments and voting turned off, natch. Hee hee.

Is this some kind of attempt to avoid being sued into oblivion? If so I hope it fails.
posted by Artw at 8:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

USA TODAY Editorial Board: Take Devin Nunes off Russian case: Our view

Whether Nunes was trying to carry water for the White House, or he simply failed to understand the responsibilities of a committee investigation, doesn’t really matter.

What’s crucial is that Congress provide an honest, credible examination into the Russian connection. Nunes’ bad instincts undermine public confidence that his panel can conduct such an inquiry.

NYTimes editorial board: Rep. Nunes Is a Lapdog in a Watchdog Role

Mr. Nunes, who served on Mr. Trump’s transition team, was never a suitable choice to lead a congressional investigation into the role the Russian government played in last year’s election. He is clearly more interested in having his committee examine the manner in which American intelligence agencies collected information about the Trump campaign than in determining what that information shows.
...
By speaking expansively about intelligence gathering, Mr. Nunes may have broken the law by disclosing classified information, however obliquely. The congressman, who has assailed leaks to the press, said his information came from unnamed “sources who thought that we should know it.” That’s rich.

WaPo Editorial Board: Nunes’s grandstanding proves he can’t lead the Russia investigation

We’ve said before that it was doubtful that an investigation headed by Mr. Nunes into Russia’s interference in the election could be adequate or credible. The chairman’s contradictory and clownish grandstanding makes that a certainty. His committee’s investigation should be halted immediately — and Mr. Nunes deserves to be subject to the same leaking probe he demanded for the previous disclosures.

posted by homunculus at 8:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [64 favorites]

Is this some kind of attempt to avoid being sued into oblivion?

Almost certainly. While it's very hard to win a defamation suit in the US, the pizza parlor folks are not public figures (or at least weren't before all this, changing which is itself a tort). If Jones can be positively identified as the source of the story on the Internet, he stands a good chance of going down in civil court over it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Is this some kind of attempt to avoid being sued into oblivion?

It looks like something the Comet Ping Pong lawyers forced him to do. What a beta
posted by theodolite at 8:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Cake printers are totally a thing, apparently. And now I want a cake printer.

Oh dang, I was picturing some amalgam of a 3-D printer and Easy Bake Oven and having a wonderful daydream about printable-cake downloads.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Infowars put up a video of Alex Jones reading his statement backing away from Pizzagate.

The reaction vids are already sharpening their knives. I look forward to Jones dying the death of a thousand online cuts in the form of red arrows and random circles.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I saw some commentary predicting that the next thing to happen in the Administration's world is not going to be another big show like the last months have been, but arrests. We'll see what happens with Jones.
posted by rhizome at 8:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well, there totally is a 3D Pancake Printer, but I'm not sure how you'd write political messages with it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The undercover tech workers who won't rest until Breitbart shuts down: Sleeping Giants

They ask people to take a screenshot of ads they see on Breitbart, then tweet to the company to politely inform them, tagging Sleeping Giants so they can keep track of the campaign’s progress. Using this template, Sleeping Giants and their thousands of “helpful” followers have got over 1500 companies to block Breitbart from their ad buy. . . . The entire concept relies heavily on the participation of their followers to call brands out, a type of clicktivism with material results. The sense of collaboration that has characterised the movement so far is unprecedented as far as the founders are concerned.

Sleeping Giants has been mentioned in previous threads, but I'm mentioning them again because this, THIS is something people OUTSIDE of the United States can do. (In fact there are Sleeping Giants affiliates in several countries, not just the US.) It's easy and costs nothing but, like, 5 minutes, if you can spare that.

Even if you don't want to take a screenshot of a company's ad on Breitbart and tweet it to that company and @slpng_giants... you can still email or call or Facebook message a Thank You to companies that have pulled their ads. Even if you don't have Twitter, you can look at that Sleeping Giants list and send Thank You's. Even if you don't have Twitter, you can look at the Sleeping Giants current tweets and observe which companies are being notified that their ads are on Breitbart, and contact them to say, "Hey, I see your ads are on Breitbart. You don't want your brand associated with inflammatory, spittle-flecked misogyny and racism and harassment, do you?" or, you know, whatever words float your boat.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 8:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

“I’ve been in this job eight years, and I’m wracking my brain to think of one thing our party has done that’s been something positive, that’s been something other than stopping something else from happening,” Representative Tom Rooney of Florida said in an interview.

In one of the threads, many threads ago, I asked the same question except allowing the last half century. Nobody could come up with one positive thing except Nixon on the EPA, but that was actually written and brought about through Democratic pressure. The best someone could come up with was the interstate highway system under Eisenhower almost 70 years ago. That's pretty sad, as Trump would say.

The Republican Party is a worthless party. They serve no useful purpose in American society except as an obstacle to nice things.
posted by JackFlash at 8:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

RE Trump's buckets, I guarandamntee you that he didn't read the bill.

He did what a lot of lazy students do: they skim a few pages and pick out something they can comment on to make it seem like they've read the assigned passage. Then they can "engage" on the material, just so long as you don't press them too much.

I've seen it so many times as a professor that this particular kind of laziness has its own flavor of bullshit associated with it. Buckets, indeed.
posted by darkstar at 8:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [34 favorites]

I've been assuming sotonohito was going to literally print out his comment, like with a laser printer, and bake the resulting piece of paper into a cake.

Ethernet inventor Bob Metcalfe once ate his words - on paper pulped in a blender - after incorrectly predicting the Internet would collapse.
posted by adamg at 8:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

To be clear, I was not expecting you to own a cake printer. I spent all day under the misconception, caused by my failure to read more carefully, that you were planning to eat actual paper, combined with cake. I am very relieved that you are not doing so.

Anyhoo, I think this Flynn story (repeat link, if you missed it during AHCA chaos) has legs. He's sitting around not long before the election talking about how to kidnap a guy on behalf of the foreign government he's getting paid by.

In one of the threads, many threads ago, I asked the same question except allowing the last half century. Nobody could come up with one positive thing except Nixon on the EPA, but that was actually written and brought about through Democratic pressure.

I will be fair and say PEPFAR and Medicare Part D basically fall into that category. The history of Part D makes an interesting case study with a lot of parallels to Obamacare, and one crucial contrast (what the opposing party did after).
posted by zachlipton at 8:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I've been in these damn threads for a year now

Where do I get a piece of the cake
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Sooooo, that's interesting?
posted by dry white toast

How did I miss this? Very interesting. Nunes is in way over his head. They all are.
posted by futz at 8:26 PM on March 24, 2017

A very thoughtful and insightful article by David Rothkopf entitled, The Soul-Sucking, Attention-Eating Black Hole of the Trump Presidency,* on the foreign policy implications for America, and the rest of the world, of Trump's "ur-narcissism":

"His view of the universe does not extend a single inch beyond the boundaries of his own interests. That is why normative concepts like truth or commonly held values or the national interest are completely alien to him. There is Trump world, and then there is oblivion". [emphasis mine].

"In short, Trump is very likely a short-timer whose moment on our national stage — even if it lasts four years — will not have warranted the degree to which it has shifted our attention from the important long-term issues that do not go away simply because we stop paying attention to them or, as in the case of climate change or Russian wrongdoing, our president continues to pretend they don’t exist."

*Free registration required
posted by vac2003 at 8:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

darkstar, it's worse than that. As far as I know the word "bucket" doesn't appear in the actual text* of the bill, only in Ryan's explanation of the overall plan.

*based on original bill released on 3/6
posted by birdheist at 8:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Ah - thanks for the clarification birdheist.

Dang, now I want cake.
posted by darkstar at 8:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Neal Gabler: Has the Trump Budget Blown Republicans’ Cover?

The whole thing is so good it's hard to pick a quote, but

Journalists ask Republicans about policies, mechanisms and money, but those are technical questions when the real and simple question they should be asking is a moral one: Why do Republicans seem intent on hurting the most vulnerable among us?

Unfortunately, the answer may just be, to paraphrase Clint Eastwood’s Dirty Harry on why serial killers murder: because they like it.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

I saw some commentary predicting that the next thing to happen in the Administration's world is not going to be another big show like the last months have been, but arrests

Please links! I love spoilers and I so hope the (last?) season of the U.S. is going for the prison plot line but I've been burned before and am scared to hope.

Yes, but are the Administration going to be the ones arrested or -- gulp -- the ones doing the arresting?

/Debbie Downer
posted by dhens at 8:32 PM on March 24, 2017

By the way, at least for me, foreignpolicy.c-m has these big shouty warnings that you will never be able to see another one of their pages if you click through without paying but that has never been true for me. I have been able to view every article w/o signing up.
posted by futz at 8:32 PM on March 24, 2017

I ask you in advance to excuse my awful icing writing skills.

Should you find yourself in another delicious predicament like this, may I suggest just buying the candy letters? You might need two or three sets, in which case you will have many extra letters to eat. Or, I guess, for your family to devour.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

The cake is a lie fake news.

"In short, Trump is very likely a short-timer whose moment on our national stage — even if it lasts four years — will not have warranted the degree to which it has shifted our attention from the important long-term issues that do not go away
Trump's self-centeredness and incompetence may turn out to be a blessing in disguise, resulting in significantly less damage than could have happened at the hands of a more competent politician with a similarly awful agenda.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is there no balm in Gilead?

Because, you know, you're going to need one after getting burned by Congress like that.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

I drove through the parking lot of our local Chick-Fil-A one day last week and saw a Ted Cruz bumper sticker on an Escalade.

Little voice inside my head said "Don't look back; you can never look back."
posted by Freon at 8:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [121 favorites]

California Upholds Auto Emissions Standards, Setting Up Face-Off With Trump

This is yet another reason it is critical that Democrats filibuster Gorsuch. This is destined to end up in the Supreme Court. Gorsuch's record indicates that he is a corporate stooge. The planet is at stake.
posted by JackFlash at 8:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

"Donald Trump's America is pretty rough, but (nuclear war notwithstanding) I get more freaked out when I contemplate Ted Cruz's America."

I've said since the primaries, Donald Trump is terrifying because he could blow up the world at any moment with the nukes and he'd do terrible standing to our international standing and our relationships with allies, but he was far too incompetent to achieve anything domestically where you have to make deals and do politics, not just drop bombs on people.

Ted Cruz, otoh, would follow the same general post-war order as all presidents have, but that mf'er is a high prince of the dark arts of legislative process and legal tricks. The international order would be fine but Ted Cruz would have fucked us domestically so hard.

I have never believed the hype about Paul Ryan. He is a silly person's idea of a serious person. You actually look at any of his policies or budgets, and there's no there there.

You know what bothers me most about Paul Ryan? He was running for fucking Vice President alongside a guy who was richer than God and he looked like a teenager in his dad's blazer. BUY A SUIT THAT FITS OR HIRE A TAILOR YOU STUPID ASSHOLE. THE GROWN-UPS ARE TRYING TO TALK. The situation has not improved. Is there literally no one on his staff who can tell Paul Ryan how wide his shoulders are not, or point out to him that the neck on all his suits gaps? Ambulance-chasing attorneys get better fits at Men's Wearhouse.

Trump is aggressively slovenly in his dress, but that bugs me less because he's obviously Queens pretending to be Manhattan. Paul Ryan wants us to think he's a serious politician with serious ideas AND HE CAN'T MANAGE TO BUY A SUIT. Of COURSE he can't whip his caucus. He couldn't whip cream.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [90 favorites]

Matt Taibbi: Trump the Destroyer
posted by rhizome at 8:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

(In an illustration of "familiarity breeds contempt," I loathe Trump and hate Cruz, but my blinding, searing rage is reserved for fuckheads from neighboring Midwestern states like Steve King and Scotty Walker and Paul Ryan and Mike Pence. They piss me off SO MUCH MORE, I guess because they've been pissing me off for years since they were tiny little fuckhead tadpoles in the great big political pond. There are probably plenty of politicians who can't buy a suit but Paul Ryan is the only one I'm really pissed off about.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I have never believed the hype about Paul Ryan. He is a silly person's idea of a serious person

He's like a "medium" in a frat boy: not so crazy as to flunk out, but also able to hold his liquor so he doesn't die in the car trunk.
posted by rhizome at 9:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

sotonohito, you rock, as does your son.

Thanks for not promising to eat a hat or a shoe.
posted by wallabear at 9:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

AND HE CAN'T MANAGE TO BUY A SUIT

I hate an ill-fitting suit like fire but isn't there a theory that men do this kind of thing on purpose as a masculinity power move? to contrast themselves with the Clintons and Pelosis of the world who not only have serious policy proposals that they understand and can explain, but groom themselves to within an inch of their lives and tailor everything to the millimeter, because perfection is required of them, but Paul Ryan gets to be Speaker while looking like that because he can, and he wants to show off that he can -- he doesn't have to please the eye any more than he has to please the ear or the brain.

his suit-wearing is like the sartorial equivalent of the devil's interval. the discomfort you feel looking at it is the intent behind it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Yet another long-form "what happened?" article, this excellent one focused a bit more on the Congressional side. Politico: Inside the GOP’s Health Care Debacle: Eighteen days that shook the Republican Party—and humbled a president. It starts by explaining that Trump dismissed the Freedom Caucus' policy questions with "Forget about the little shit. Let's focus on the big picture here" and talked about the political ramification of the bill's defeat, instead of, you know, health care policy.

The article asserts that Trump really hurt the bill's chances when he singled out Meadows, who already needed to not look like a stooge for Trump, and threatened to "come after" him if he didn't support the bill. That put Meadows in an impossible situation where he'd look weak if he said "yes."

This is the quote everyone's passing around:

Pence tried to pump up the conservatives, telling them the fight was theirs to win and that they needed to help Trump and Ryan score a victory for the new administration. The plea landed on deaf ears. "Take one for the team" was a phrase repeatedly deployed; at one point, after Bannon used it, Joe Barton, a white-haired conservative from Texas, snapped back in response that Bannon was talking to them like children and he didn't appreciate it. The room filled with uncomfortable silence; Bannon backed down and the meeting went on.

And:

The atmosphere was friendly, and the president had the group laughing with irrelevant riffs and stories of negotiations past, but it became clear, as soon as he made the "little shit" comment, that no serious changes were going to be made, because the president didn't have sufficient command of the policy details to negotiate what would or would not be realistic for Ryan to shepherd through the House.

The article also blames Ryan for being a horrible salesman who completely botched the rollout of the bill, having no media strategy, and not lining up outside groups to support it.

One interesting thing to me, based on everything I've read, is that Trump spent all his time schmoozing the Freedom Caucus (not really negotiating with them, since he doesn't know anything), but made almost no effort to court votes from anyone else. When you look at who actually opposed the bill, they were bleeding out the other side of the party too, with reps who couldn't face going back to their districts after cutting hundreds of thousands of their constituents off their healthcare. The sense I'm getting is that Trump viewed his purpose as "convince the Freedom Caucus to get on board" and thought that making lots of phone calls to laugh with them was hard work, but had no strategy beyond that. And then, having failed to win over moderate Republicans, he still blames Democrats, who he didn't talk to at all.
posted by zachlipton at 9:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [76 favorites]

I’m wracking my brain to think of one thing our party has done...that’s been something other than stopping something else from happening

welp. y'all buy the *fuck* out of some freedom bombs and drop 'em on brown people. there's that.

(D's help a little, so, bad kharma all around)
posted by j_curiouser at 9:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I mean basically every professional man in DC is richer than I am by A LOT and nine tenths of them are walking Men's Wearhouse display cases, not just poor old glum old Paul Ryan. this doesn't happen by accident. a man has a choice in life to look like a box or something other than a box, and the second option is an unholy temptation that very few succumb to. somewhere on capitol hill there is an intern orientation program for boys only that explains to them: if you have a waist that goes in, you must have a shirt that goes out. out, out, to billow in the wind, a shirt so wide you can hide a thousand subpoenas in it. pants with pleats deep enough to shelter all your secrets. sleeves long enough to hide whatever terrible knuckle shame you have.

women in DC dress terribly too of course and I do my part in that but the men's suits are their own world of wonder.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

"Paul Ryan gets to be Speaker while looking like that because he can, and he wants to show off that he can -- he doesn't have to please the eye any more than he has to please the ear or the brain. "

Obama and Biden and Romney and even John Boehner were all men who looked sharp in a suit and knew how to pay a tailor. Paul Ryan is not strategic, he is not a wonk, he does not play 11-dimensional chess, and there was no theory behind his ill-fitting but wildly expensive suits. DUDE JUST DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO BUY A SUIT.

(It's really telling that he buys them too big, it's such an "insecure little boy with his first big-boy job" move, insisting he's a 42L when he's clearly a 39R. Buying shirts in a 16 1/2 neck because he works out, bro! When in reality he's got a 14" neck that suddenly looks like a chicken neck when your shirt is two fuckin sizes too big because you're an idiot. He's one of those guys who claims to be "a little over six feet" when he's really 5' 10.5", which he rounds up to 5'11", which he then rounds up to six feet, because it really matters to him that he be thought tall.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [66 favorites]

there was no theory behind his ill-fitting but wildly expensive suits.

don't tell me he doesn't get that terrible haircut just to make me mad, though. it feels personal.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I've said this before, but Trump is the living embodiment of the bike-shed effect.

He spent endless hours on minute details of his inauguration & the parties afterwards. He's gone through multiple plans for his personal & family cemetery plots. It's absolutely a big part of who he is.
posted by scalefree at 9:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

I am not getting any "MSM" hits for Andrea Mitchell's story. Is anyone else?

Most are likely leery of publishing anything based on a single source. Maddow's bucking the trend though.
posted by scalefree at 9:29 PM on March 24, 2017

Worth remembering that Ryan's Wisconsin district is only PVI R+3, while the DNC/DCCC sabotaged and refused to fund his challengers in the last 4 election cycles. He should be vulnerable in a 2018 wave scenario, if Democrats actually backed a candidate against him.

[I swear I searched for the headline thing, does the search box not do well with urls stripped of social medial tracking referrals? I dunno.]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

you must have a shirt that goes out. out, out, to billow in the wind, a shirt so wide you can hide a thousand subpoenas in it.

Don't forget Fawn Hall, who in the act of shredding one and half feet of documents related to the Iran/Contra scandal, when the shredder jammed, shoved documents into her boots and down her back. Under oath, her excuse was that "sometimes you have to go above the law."

Practical clothes are a must for Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 9:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

McKay Coppins on the GOP's larger problems. Basically, they spent 8 years rejecting every single thing Obama did, rather than the usual horse trading, making deals where they could, etc. Now, they have no idea how to govern.

“In many ways, the strategy paid off: Republicans took back Congress, slowed the progress of an agenda they genuinely opposed, and ultimately seized control of the White House. But it also came at a cost for the GOP—their lawmakers forgot how to make laws. Indeed, without any real expectation of their bills actually being enacted, the legislative process mutated into a platform for point-scoring, attention-getting, and brand-building.”

posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

"I think a lot of the blame for this mess falls on the fact that this was rolled out too quickly but also that the Freedom Caucus, these 29 or so conservative members of the House - they basically only know how to exist as creatures of opposition." -- Jonah Goldberg of National Review on NPR this morning.

Have the Republicans had a positive model of government since the Southern Strategy?
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Republicans have been secretly schismed for the last 16 years without realizing it. They managed to run a halfhearted coalition between the hard right and GWB's "compassionate conservatism" during 2000-2004 because of 9/11, then got to run on divided government from 2004-2008, then got to run a simple "Coalition of No" for the entire Obama presidency.

But the Coalition of No can't govern when it has nothing to No against. They tried to with Obamacare, but failed. Why? Because Obamacare is already the most right-wing healthcare bill possible that still makes some attempt at universal coverage. Anything more to the right simply cannot even offer universal coverage because it collapses under the myth of the free market, so they lost the moderate Republicans trying to move right. And anything to the left of the ACA is clearly Socialism, so they lost the hard-right Freedom Caucus.

Think about this for a minute - the AHCA was both too far to the left and too far to the right for Republicans to pass it. They are divided beyond the point of being able to govern.

How is this going to land for tax reform? The current tax code is, at large scale, regressive. Federal income tax is nominally progressive but capital gains taxes bend the curve back toward regressiveness at the high end. Any tax bill is going to have at least one of the three properties:

a) increases the deficit, scaring off the deficit hawk wing
b) makes rich people pay more, scaring off the corporate shills
c) makes poor people pay more, scaring off the remaining moderates and losing the midterms

We can discount from the get-go any tax reform that makes the tax code more progressive, because that could potentially get some Democrats on board, which would be a key indicator that it's actually Socialism.

The prospect of tax reform not getting through is unremarkable, but when it comes to the debt ceiling? We should be terrified. The best case is that Ryan ditches the Hastert rule and a clean debt ceiling bill passes the House and Senate on the strength of Democrat votes. The worst case is that Donald decides that he's going to go through with his "renegotiate the debt" strategy and crashes the economy.
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

But the Coalition of No can't govern when it has nothing to No against. They tried to with Obamacare, but failed. Why? Because Obamacare is already the most right-wing healthcare bill possible that still makes some attempt at universal coverage. Anything more to the right simply cannot even offer universal coverage because it collapses under the myth of the free market, so they lost the moderate Republicans trying to move right. And anything to the left of the ACA is clearly Socialism, so they lost the hard-right Freedom Caucus.

There's room for a wholesale reallignment of American politics, with "moderate" Republicans seeing the light and agreeing to maybe, like 15/100 times or less, working with Democrats in good faith to pass bills for the greater good. It wouldn't be that hard.

But they won't. And they've burned every last shred of goodwill to the point that Democrats cannot possibly trust them even in the unlikely scenario that they made a good faith offer.

I'd prefer we get out of this hell with the death of the Republican party nationally as happened in California and Hawaii. But if there's going to be any good faith reconciliation, they have to be the ones to come back from the brink and back to rationality. Democrats should be done. Fuck knows we've had our own Democrats begging them to step back from the ledge rather than deservedly push them off, and they'll be welcomed home by the media as heroes just for the smallest act of halfhearted outreach. That may happen one day, but they can probably bring down the world economy and/or start a nuclear war on the way, and it's still pretty much a coin flip.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I DO remember people complaining that Reagan's collars were too big for him, fwiw.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

My heart swells every time I think about how furious Trump is going to be this weekend as he watches his TV shows and everywhere he turns he is being mocked and called a colossal failure. Once again his tiny hands will beat at the air futilely!

It's almost Saturday morning. The Bitching Hour!
posted by Justinian at 9:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

McKay Coppins on the GOP's larger problems.

That should be Mmmmkay...
posted by futz at 9:57 PM on March 24, 2017

That theory was never advanced before Bannon's rag made it up

no, I think Angela Carter made it up in the '70s, and some French feminist theorist well before that, probably as half a joke both times. There is looking bad on purpose for fashion, and then there is looking bad on purpose out of spite. the second one is aeons old I imagine but I just personally for my own theorizing date it back to the dawn of the baggy pleated trouser, which was certainly well before Andrew Breitbart was ever born.

trying to display power by looking good is always a risk, because it is ultimately always the people looking at you who decide whether you've succeeded or failed. you give yourself over for judging. but trying to display power by looking like a box from the box factory with sad eyebrows is a gesture of contempt for those who must look at you. it says: I don't have to please you because I control you.

I am sure eyebrows mcgee is right that Paul Ryan is not doing anything stylistically sophisticated on purpose, he's just a big dumb idiot who wants to look like a bigger dumb idiot. but the theory's a thing and bannon's got nothing to do with it. it's no compliment to those it theoretically applies to.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

From the comments on the Mckay Coppins article in the Atlantic:

The Democrats should offer Trump a single payer alternative quickly. He would probably sign it just so he could get credit for winning.

I hope someone is working this angle, because it would be a truly brilliant move with a non-zero chance of succeeding. This should come up after every debacle: a Democratic/moderate Republican coalition with a bill ready to go and sign, and every bill's name should start "Winner!" Trump would sign them and invite the press himself.
posted by fatbird at 10:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

Is it April fool's yet or just FOOLS?

Mnuchin: Trump has 'perfect genes,' has given up KFC

I have searched mefi and the web and this has to be a joke right? Right?

I feel like a crazy person. Here we go:


On AI supplanting human jobs: "it's not even on our radar screen.... 50-100 more years" away. "I'm not worried at all" about robots displacing humans in the near future, he said, adding: "In fact I'm optimistic."

Other big ticket items:

Trump:

Trump's stamina: "He's got perfect genes. He has incredible energy and he's unbelievably healthy."

Trump's diet: Mnuchin claimed Trump no longer eats KFC or McDonald's, as the White House food is "great."

The dollar bill: "I think we should look at putting President Trump on the thousand dollar bill."

Trump's views evolving: "He's the negotiator-in-chief... he wants big deals."

Trump's leadership style: "He has an open door. People are coming and going, and he thinks about something and calls somebody on the phone... this is not a formal, scheduled president."

Tax reform:

"Much simpler" than health care reform, saying the Trump administration will do it comprehensively. Not going to break it up into more passable pieces.

Corporate tax rate: Mnuchin declined to reiterate Trump's goal of a 15% corporate tax rate, vs. Ryan's 20% plan.

Carried interest loophole: Mnuchin said the loophole will be closed in our tax plan. But that's for hedge funds. No commitment on real estate, etc.

Border adjustment tax: It has certain aspects that are VAT-like, which much of the rest of the world uses.
The focus of tax cuts: Mnuchin said the Trump administration's focus is on tax cuts for the middle class, not upper.

The global economy:

Renegotiating trade deals: "So long as we can renegotiate [trade] deals that are good for us, we won't be protectionist. Otherwise we will."

The one bad thing: We don't know how to predict the next bad thing.
Trump's big objective: Keep people safe, per Mnuchin.

Does Mnuchin worry about who is calling Trump? "No. Do you?"

On Silicon Valley, tech and jobs:

Valuations: "I don't understand these valuations."

Infrastructure:

Infrastructure finance: "It's clear he wants to do something very significant," Mnuchin said, referenced Trump's wish list. He added it wouldn't be deficit-financed.

The big problem: Regulations, not the money.

Mnuchin: Trump has 'perfect genes,' has given up KFC

This guy is insane and unbelievably stupid. I can't stop shaking my head. Like I said I searched mefi and came up with zilch so please delete if I am as dumb as mnuchin. Highly likely. :)
posted by futz at 10:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

I feel something I haven't felt for such a long time.

It's hard to describe.

It's not...dread, or sadness, or overwhelming crushing anger.

Could this be....

OPTIMISM?

It's the audacity of hope!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:46 PM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

Less dread?
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

It's the audacity of less dread!
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [121 favorites]

I'd be up for putting Trump on a thousand-dollar bill. What size press would we need?
posted by uosuaq at 10:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Jeez, what's with the Grover Cleveland hatred?
posted by Chrysostom at 11:02 PM on March 24, 2017

I'd be up for putting Trump on a thousand-dollar bill. What size press would we need? Gotta be a big one. A bill that makes your hands look tiny in comparison.
posted by solarion at 11:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I hate an ill-fitting suit like fire but isn't there a theory that men do this kind of thing on purpose as a masculinity power move?

Hey, I despise suits in general and I have a particularly deep and utter contempt for ties, but if I have to wear a suit I at least want it to fit right. Otherwise I'd just look incompetent.

Ties are stupid.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ties are adorable scarves! This is what Trump doesn't understand. You'd never scotch-tape your scarf. (This is not the only thing Trump does not understand.)
posted by kerf at 11:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

daddy never used no tie tack
posted by rhizome at 11:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hope someone is working this angle, because it would be a truly brilliant move with a non-zero chance of succeeding. This should come up after every debacle: a Democratic/moderate Republican coalition with a bill ready to go and sign, and every bill's name should start "Winner!" Trump would sign them and invite the press himself.

"The President Trump and American Patriotic Alliance $SUBJECT Bill"
posted by jaduncan at 12:00 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

So enjoy people. I sure am, both the cake and the win!

YOU MAGNIFICENT MACHIAVELLIAN BASTARD.
posted by supercrayon at 12:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

On AI supplanting human jobs: "it's not even on our radar screen.... 50-100 more years" away. "I'm not worried at all" about robots displacing humans in the near future, he said, adding: "In fact I'm optimistic."

This has been infuriating me all day. Robots already displace humans. It's not, like, the end of work anytime soon, but there will continue to be significant change as huge industries transform (I'm looking at you, trucking, and having the President toot a horn isn't going to stop it). And we don't even have a cabinet secretary with the intellectual curiosity to think about what's going to happen and be thinking about how to manage these transitions.
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 AM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

My pet theory is that Flynn is (one of) the guy(s) that got nailed by the collateral intelligence collection and he is singing like a canary to Comey on the Russia connections in exchange for not getting busted on the Turkey business. A guy can dream, right? He does seem to have disappeared since he got canned...
posted by Justinian at 12:31 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

A Jewish immigrant to America, originally named Zivotovsky. (Nicknamed 'Stumpy.') And Warren's mother was a Mormon – that sounds like an interesting family to grow up in.

His song Mama Couldn't Be Persuaded is a good one, and fairly autobiographical:

Gambler ambled down a country lane, looking for a game of chance
She was twenty-one or two and she knew what she wanted
And she wanted that gamblin' man

Her parents warned her, tried to reason with her
She was determined that she wanted Bill
They'd all be offended at the mention still
If they heard this song, which I doubt they will

And my mama couldn't be persuaded
When they pleaded with their daughter don't marry that gamblin' man

Gambler tried to be a family man though it didn't suit his style
He thought he had him a winning combination
So he took us where the stakes were high
Her parents warned her, tried to reason with her
Never kept their disappointment hid
They all went to pieces when the bad luck hit
Stuck in the middle, I was the kid
posted by Meatbomb at 1:03 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

So, Michael Flynn is going to jail, right
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump would pardon Flynn in a microsecond.
posted by Yowser at 1:36 AM on March 25, 2017

I just can't get over this "we learned a lot" nonsense that Drumpf keeps doing.

Reminds me of the final scene of Burn After Reading.

CIA Superior: What did we learn, Palmer?
CIA Officer: I don't know, sir.
CIA Superior: I don't fuckin' know either. I guess we learned not to do it again.
CIA Officer: Yes, sir.
CIA Superior: I'm fucked if I know what we did.
CIA Officer: Yes, sir, it's, uh, hard to say
CIA Superior: Jesus Fucking Christ.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:45 AM on March 25, 2017 [36 favorites]

Trump is not going to pardon Flynn. Flynn is going to be a fall guy. Flynn and Manafort, now that Trump has got them out of the White House all that nasty Russian influence is all gone. Poor Donald misled by people he trusted.
posted by rdr at 1:52 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

The flipside of the naif act and lack of pardon is that there's not much stopping Flynn and Manafort from taking an FBI deal to testify.
posted by jaduncan at 1:57 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I guess it depends on exactly what Flynn has on everyone else

Worst case scenario for him might be a polonium sandwich

So, spilling his guts and going to rich-people jail might not seem that awful
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:59 AM on March 25, 2017

Sure, if rich-people jail doesn't serve polonium sandwich.
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:14 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't believe Florence ADX really counts as rich-people jail. Manafort and Flynn are also likely to be good intelligence sources, so it would be impressively stupid to allow them to be killed.
posted by jaduncan at 2:26 AM on March 25, 2017

I'm sorry for responding to something I'm way behind on, and not reading the intervening posts, but I have to speak to the ableism of criticizing elderly patients on 22 medications.

I'm 37 and I am on a dozen different meds. I have chronic illnesses, some which are related and some which aren't. My biggest problem is pain, for which I am prescribed 4 different meds. They all do different things and I take them at different times and for different but related types/causes of pain. I also take an antidepressant which started because my pain was causing mental symptoms. I tried stopping it, but my pain levels increased.

It would doubtless be possible for my pain to be treated with one heavy medications like oxy or fentanyl. But instead my doctors prefer treating my symptoms with the minimum level of the safest medications. I also have pills I take to help control side effects of some of my necessary meds.

The alternative is to leave me to suffer. In general medical practitioners don't like to do that. I imagine that goes double for people who are a lot worse off than me. And there are very good reasons to err on the side of overtreating illnesses in the elderly because there is less reason to be concerned about long term side effects, so the moral calculus really comes on the side of making the patient as comfortable as possible.

I'm deeply grateful that doctors exist out there who are willing to prescribe for people in pain, people who suffer. There has always been a school of thought in medicine that patients shouldn't be too comfortable, that some level of pain is a moral good. Even though every study shows how serious the consequences of living in pain are, and that getting relief is beneficial for physical and mental health.

If there is any group who should be free of the puritanical baggage that comes from needing medications, it should be those at the end of life.
posted by threeturtles at 3:07 AM on March 25, 2017 [98 favorites]

A detailed post mortem of what just happened from vox.com: On health reform, Donald Trump followed Republican leaders into a ditch.

It's a long, detailed story that I couldn't stop reading. American politics are so complicated, with so many moving parts! It seems like a system designed to change as slowly as possible. Ryan and Trump tried to speed things up, then lost control and crashed.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:16 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

It seems like a system designed to change as slowly as possible.

This is quite correct, and very much on purpose.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:59 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

no, I think Angela Carter made it up in the '70s, and some French feminist theorist well before that, probably as half a joke both times. There is looking bad on purpose for fashion, and then there is looking bad on purpose out of spite. the second one is aeons old I imagine but I just personally for my own theorizing date it back to the dawn of the baggy pleated trouser, which was certainly well before Andrew Breitbart was ever born.

Actually, Orwell made a similar observation in one of his minor essays - he was talking about Hitler and the goose step. He said that it was ridiculous and Hitler was ridiculous, but the whole point to it was to say "I look like a clown, but if you laugh I'll have you killed".

Months and months ago - it seems like a lifetime! I have crossed oceans of time since the election! (In a time boat, of course) - I said to metafilter, I said, "It would be more efficient for the right just to govern with total authoritarian brutality, smash the opposition, shut down demonstrations, etc; I wonder why they don't do that". At this point, I am realizing that authoritarian brutality is more difficult than it sounds and requires you to be a total patronizing dick to your subordinates, a la Bannon, and people don't always go for that.

Pence tried to pump up the conservatives, telling them the fight was theirs to win and that they needed to help Trump and Ryan score a victory for the new administration. The plea landed on deaf ears. "Take one for the team" was a phrase repeatedly deployed; at one point, after Bannon used it, Joe Barton, a white-haired conservative from Texas, snapped back in response that Bannon was talking to them like children and he didn't appreciate it. The room filled with uncomfortable silence; Bannon backed down and the meeting went on.

See, this gives me some hope. Bannon seems like he's always been in situations where his money and title mean he can assume that everyone else is stupid and inferior and they can't say boo, but that doesn't work as well in politics.

And it's a contrast between capitalism and democracy - even in the corrupt, morally empty world of Republican politics, there's the ghost of democracy and Bannon can't just expect the kind of unremitting compliance he might get in the corporate world. Under capitalism, you can't talk back to the boss, no matter how rude, cruel and incompetent he is; in a democratic system you can.
posted by Frowner at 5:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [56 favorites]

> "I have crossed oceans of time since the election! (In a time boat, of course) ..."

There's no such thing as a time boat! You -- what you do is you get a big clock -- a grandfather clock, you lay it down, you open the door and you paddle it ... like ...
posted by kyrademon at 5:34 AM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

a) increases the deficit, scaring off the deficit hawk wing

They only exist for Democratic Presidents.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:34 AM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's almost Saturday morning. The Bitching Hour!

look it's been a long week
posted by saturday_morning at 5:37 AM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

> "Under capitalism, you can't talk back to the boss, no matter how rude, cruel and incompetent he is; in a democratic system you can."

Now matter how much it seems otherwise, no matter how much they might wish to deny it, no matter how much they try to make it not be true, no matter how much the theory simply fails when put into practice, as long as it truly is a democratic system, THEY work for US.
posted by kyrademon at 5:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Take one for the team" was a phrase repeatedly deployed; at one point, after Bannon used it, Joe Barton, a white-haired conservative from Texas, snapped back in response that Bannon was talking to them like children and he didn't appreciate it. The room filled with uncomfortable silence; Bannon backed down and the meeting went on.

Barton continued, "Only oil companies get to talk to me like that. Now hush up so we can get this over with, I've got a meeting with the CEO of BP in an hour and Daddy gets very upset if I make him wait."
posted by indubitable at 5:43 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

And we don't even have a cabinet secretary with the intellectual curiosity to think about what's going to happen and be thinking about how to manage these transitions.

That's the least of my worries in some ways. It's becoming harder year after year not to notice the season cycles are breaking down. Climate change represents an existential threat to all human happening right in front of our eyes, and we don't have the kind of thoughtful, intelligent, and compassionate world leaders here or elsewhere to manage that transition to whatever a world without stable seasons looks like. Meanwhile, our new leadership isn't just incompetent on that problem, they seem to be hell bent on accelerating it.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:49 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

And it's a contrast between capitalism and democracy - even in the corrupt, morally empty world of Republican politics, there's the ghost of democracy

I think it bears testament to the robust nature of American democratic, constitutional and broader governmental institutions that, despite decades of the GOP moving further and further into a position of outright sabotage, US democracy is continuing to function (albeit in a severely hampered fashion) even with Trump in the White House and Republican majorities in Congress.

There are many things to admire about America, but they are hardly ever the things that those who boast of their patriotism set any value on. They are things almost entirely defined negatively, not by what the US does (given the huge systemic evils that have been allowed to prevail), but by the evils that, despite its immense power and overwhelming domination by its own capitalist class, the US has thus far managed to avoid.

Continuing to avoid those evils is going to be a terrifyingly difficult struggle, with a terrifying possibility of failure, but there is still good reason for hope, and for me to admire all of you who are taking part in that struggle.
posted by howfar at 5:50 AM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

They couldn't figure out how to vilify/disenfranchise sick people and their families, I guess.
posted by fleacircus at 5:58 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Good overview on the congressional workings regarding the failed Republican health care bill
On health reform, Donald Trump followed Republican leaders into a ditch
The allegedly masterful dealmaker ended up in a no-win situation.
posted by robbyrobs at 6:09 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can we popularize the name Gorsuch the Merciless? And then get a committee member to put up this question -- "You've been called merciless in social media. Tell me, what are your feelings about the value of mercy in the judicial process?"
posted by puddledork at 6:12 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Between the FPP and this song about the downfall of Trumpcare, I'm starting to think we should have more news in ballad form...

“I’d counted on a veto,” said a rep from Tennessee.
“The blame Obama always took would fall on Hillary.
Then Pennsylvania went for Trump, and Michigan the same.
And now we run the government, we can’t just play a game.”
...
Oh Donnie! Clever Donnie! How everyone agreed.
The plan that he campaigned on was just the one they’d need.
It ended it all the mandates! It set the markets free!
And still it covered everyone, from sea to shining sea!

“It offers better treatment,” noted one committee chair.
“And cheaper,” said another, “I know cause I was there.
You should have heard the cheering. I thought the roof would fall.
And Mexico will pay for it! No, wait, that was the wall.”

posted by OnceUponATime at 6:14 AM on March 25, 2017 [43 favorites]

Carried interest loophole: Mnuchin said the loophole will be closed in our tax plan. But that's for hedge funds. No commitment on real estate, etc.

Oh shit giving the middle finger to the hedge fund guys while looking out for yourself? That's a way to piss off a lot of petty people who will seek revenge and who have a lot of cash.
posted by Talez at 6:15 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Well here we are, another day in paradise. Why is everyone here wearing boxy suits?

Paradise is exactly like where you are right now, only much much better.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Can we popularize the name Gorsuch the Merciless?

Surely we can get someone to YouTube an endorsement by his brother Ming?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:33 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I have crossed oceans of time since the election! (In a time boat, of course)

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: President Trump’s broken timeline

President Trump has come unstuck in time.

Years pass, and his hair grows blonder and the women around him grow younger and younger. He is a paradox.

Or maybe he is cursed. Everything he says is true, just not necessarily at the moment he says it.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:36 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

While I am thrilled that healthcare overhaul was such a massive failure, there's a nasty bit of shit sticking to my happiness cupcake-- and that's the image of the turd-in-chief sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office and declaring that Obamacare is going to explode, knowing that he will never lift a finger to help, out of spite. Christ what a President we have.

Tax reform up next. On the one hand it will be a lot more difficult to get mass protests to rally against the bill specifically, on the other hand serious tax reform will affect a lot more powerful groups including large corporations. I don't think P. Ryan has the ability to sell anything to anyone but this time DJT will be more engaged and eager to help.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Tax reform had been predicated on health care reform. This'll be quite a pickle for them.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:49 AM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Tax reform up next.

Nyet. 24/7 Russia Independent prosecution. Corporate media, do *not* fuck this up for us. We've got a whole Internet with your name on it. Right here
posted by petebest at 6:52 AM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Have the Republicans had a positive model of government since the Southern Strategy?

Sure. Newt Gingrich is a real grade-a doofus, but when he and the Republicans swept into power in 95:

(1) They had a real, positive (in the sense of active) plan for what they wanted to do. A vision for the country. One I didn't like, but you could see how at least parts of it were a vision people could put forward honestly.

(2) They really meant it, to the point that they handed Bill Clinton a line-item veto that they could only expect would be used to obstruct Republican goals in the short term (it was unconstitutional).

(3) They were absolutely willing to cut deals with moderate Democrats and Clinton to get half a loaf.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:00 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Shit. McCain got out. Somebody go find him before he Goes Rogue.

Trump Should Address Russia's Election Interference, McCain Says

Trump Critic McCain Advises Less Tweeting, More Outreach to Democrats

Outreach! To Democrats!*

*said with the sneering tone of, "I think it would be fun to run a newspaper. !!" /monoclepop
posted by petebest at 7:02 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Jonathan Chait: Why Obamacare Defeated Trumpcare

The American Health Care Act is a truly horrendous piece of legislation. But it did not become the vehicle for the Obamacare repeal effort because Trump, or Ryan, or anybody insisted on it over some other option. It became the repeal bill because nobody in the Republican Party had a better idea.

[...]

It is not possible to write a bill that meets public standards for acceptable health-insurance coverage within the parameters of conservative ideology. It is possible — just barely — to write a bill that meets public standards for acceptable health-insurance coverage within the parameters of liberal ideology. The form taken by Obama’s health-care reform will change over the decades to come. But its central triumph, creating a federal right to access to basic medical care, will never be taken away.

posted by tonycpsu at 7:02 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

(3) They were absolutely willing to cut deals with moderate Democrats and Clinton to get half a loaf.

Mmmm I remember that more as "Clinton and Teh Demz gave them whatever they wanted to show they could 'work for all Americans'". Cite?
posted by petebest at 7:05 AM on March 25, 2017

They aren't even planning to do individual tax reform yet (I'm sure Spicer would say that's in prong 3 or whatever). They've been saying they can do business tax reform by August, but business groups and pretty much everyone outside of the GOP knows that's ridiculous, and that was before AHCA went up in flames. They have no coalition, their only plan was the Ryan blueprint, which a ton of businesses hated, and people are finally realizing that maybe Ryan is not such a smart guy after all, and it would completely upend state budgets and tax regimes.

Tax reform is not going to pass this year.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:06 AM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

There is a lot of blood in the water now, and there's a whole lot of people who want a piece of these assholes.

I think lots of things are going to start going very, very badly for them.

Like soren_lorensen, I might need a cigarette.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:12 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Won't the House be tied up for a couple weeks with infighting about the Speakership? Trump may be willing to move on, but I think Bannon would like to use this opportunity to stir up some shit with Ryan.
posted by klarck at 7:13 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yeah. Let's not forget that when it came to it in the primaries, a lot of the Senate openly hated Trump before very reluctantly bending the knee. I doubt the Presidency thus far has convinced them otherwise.
posted by jaduncan at 7:14 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yeah. Let's not forget that when it came to it in the primaries, a lot of the Senate openly hated Trump before very reluctantly bending the knee. I doubt the Presidency thus far has convinced them otherwise.

I dunno. I think a lot of authoritarians in office suddenly saw a lot of silver hair on Trump's back when he won the nomination.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:17 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Shit. McCain got out. Somebody go find him before he Goes Rogue.

That's kind of McCain's schtick, though. He says maverick-y things to maintain his reputation for being a maverick, but when it comes time to take action or do anything that risks his standing with the people to whom he answers, he is as submissive and obedient as everyone else in his party. Lots of Republicans will talk big about wanting to investigate Trump's Russian ties, but they won't lift a finger to make it happen unless the pressure from outside the party gets overwhelming.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:24 AM on March 25, 2017 [32 favorites]

Google tells me that McCain is on the committee for Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Any reason he can't start is own investigation? (Actually asking; I know nothing about parliamentary procedure I didn't learn from the West Wing.)
posted by schadenfrau at 7:30 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

> One interesting thing to me, based on everything I've read, is that Trump spent all his time schmoozing the Freedom Caucus (not really negotiating with them, since he doesn't know anything), but made almost no effort to court votes from anyone else.

Hey all, remember all those fawning profiles of Cambridge Analytica and their All-Singing All-Dancing Best-of-Breed Micro-Targeting Pattern Matching Supervised Learning Big Data Powerhouse that propelled POTUS45 to victory by telling them to do rallies and spend ad money to appeal to Working Class White People in the Rust Belt while the Clinton campaign foolishly tried to use their dated legacy platform from the Obama era and came up just short? You'd think that if these guys had such a Game-Changing Earth-Shattering Paradigm-Shifting platform, they might have thought about deploying it to find out how to deploy their resources to win an actual policy battle. You mean to tell me they built a machine that can micro-target voters to within fractions of a percent can't use those same powers to find out how to peel off reps who will have to face those same voters in next year's primaries?

If I didn't know any better, I might be inclined to think that the whole thing was nothing but snake oil, much like the AHCA itself.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:31 AM on March 25, 2017 [55 favorites]

Republicans go down in flames, USMNT crushes Honduras 6-0. A wonderful Friday for America!
posted by zakur at 7:32 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

She thought Trump would deport ‘bad hombres.’ Instead, he’s deporting her law-abiding husband.

“I wish I didn’t vote at all,” Helen Berestain said Friday. “I did it for the economy. We needed a change.”

She recalls that Roberto had complained, “He’s going to get rid of the Mexicans.”

But she countered with Trump’s words, that he would deport only the “bad hombres.”

The Beristains, she said, were all for deporting illegal immigrants who were criminals, bringing drugs or abusing the system, “but not to get rid of all the people. This is not what America is, the land of the free.”

Well to be fair, Trump wasn't really given a lot off press during the campaign, and even if his incredibly offensive and racist stump speech had been repeated ad nauseum for more than a year, who knew Nazis would be all Nazi about it.
posted by petebest at 7:34 AM on March 25, 2017 [69 favorites]

I dunno. I think a lot of authoritarians in office suddenly saw a lot of silver hair on Trump's back when he won the nomination.

Sure, but not all Republicans are authoritarian, and certainly not authoritarian when compared to Trump. As much as they might bend, that standard of authoritarianism doesn't include people like Collins, Heller, Graham and the like. The Senate is close, and all that is needed is a few people to think that they don't want to die on the hill of Trump's latest bout of racist paranoia expressed as incoherent policy to mean that it can't happen. This might be important when considering, say, the budget for ICE deportations, or changes in the law related to citizenship rights. Etc, etc.

As an example, it turns out the House Republicans also won't invariably be loyal soldiers for Trump's more idiotic bills. If the Dems stay strong it doesn't actually matter what the majority of Republicans think, because idiocy will be curtailed on the basis that the votes aren't there for the worst fever dreams. That is good and important, because Trump shouldn't be given a blank check.
posted by jaduncan at 7:37 AM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Beristains

Guys, the spelling changed again! I think we really did jump to the wrong part of the multiverse! o_O
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:41 AM on March 25, 2017 [35 favorites]

they might have thought about deploying it to find out how to deploy their resources to win an actual policy battle.

Besides the high probability that they haven't paid, they won so who cares. Bannon or Preibus or Pence will figure it out. Time to bask in that sweet sweet MAGAlove. Then a little golf, ogle the staff, some Nixon Meatloaf (covered-up in secret ketchup), throw a shoe at the Spiceweasel, then it's Tweetin' Time!!
posted by petebest at 7:41 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I think a lot of authoritarians in office suddenly saw a lot of silver hair on Trump's back when he won the nomination.

Definitely, but that's why failures like AHCA and the blocked Muslim bans are important. They're revealing that most of that silver hair was just painted on the whole time. The more Trump keeps losing, the less the alpha-worshipers will be inclined to put up with him.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:43 AM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

I mean...to be fair, the targeted advertising / persuasion something like Cambridge Analytica claims to do is not meant for small groups of highly connected people with access to lots of specialized information about the topic at hand. It's meant to steer public sentiment on a mass scale, particularly with a public that doesn't have a) a lot of actual information, and b) not a lot of angry constituents calling and expressing the exact opposite sentiment. That's sort of a nonsense comparison.

If you mean why didn't they use all those ratfucking advertising techniques on the public in support of Trumpcare, I don't think they had time, even if they had the capability of selling that kind of shit sandwich. As has been pointed out, selling a specific shit sandwich served to YOU is way harder than selling the vague idea of hypothetical shit sandwiches served to the people you don't like.

Plus also $.

But I wouldn't count out ratfuckery in the future. A lot of people are very dumb, a lot are very ill informed, and a lot get their news and opinion entirely from Facebook. Still plenty of rats to be fucked.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:49 AM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

After A Wild Week, The House Trump-Russia Probe Endures — Barely

Guess which "major" news organization that headline is from. No go ahead, guess. The article itself isn't that bad, which makes this editorial decision that much more frustrating. Or it would be if one were inclined to care about such things. If you guessed npr you win a free soda.

Meanwhile, staff members are negotiating with three key figures in the Trump-Russia imbroglio about coming to testify. Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, former Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page and self-described "dirty trickster" and longtime Trump ally Roger Stone all have come forward to say they are willing to meet with the House Intelligence Committee.

Closed-door, non-oath-sworn testimony because why pretend.

COLLUSION
posted by petebest at 7:52 AM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Idk if this will help anyone else, but the way I've dealt with the terrifying prospect of how this government will handle a true crisis is to accept that it will happen. Something bad will happen, and they will fuck up the response beyond even my expectations, and people will suffer and die because of it. And then we'll try to mitigate the damage as best we can.

If we're lucky -- Christ I can't believe I'm saying this -- it will be on the scale of a hurricane, and not a flu pandemic or a nuclear crisis.

If he's still in office by then, that's when he'll be drummed out.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:56 AM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Yeah I hate to be a buzz kill but

Hey, MeFi case law clearly states in OMG Pussygate v. LOL that we get the weekend to enjoy slightly less dread.

Remember, we have the public shaming ritual dance of the Sunday Morning "News" shows to "look forward to".
posted by petebest at 7:58 AM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

We made bad law
Shadow law
Random law
And abandoned law

Accidentally, like a martyr
posted by petebest at 8:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

No SNL for a few more weeks. April 8.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:18 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Netanyahu's honeymoon with Trump ends abruptly

Netanyahu now finds himself walking a tight-rope between a new president interested in a peace deal and an empowered right-wing determined to sink the two-state solution once and for all. In the face of this political pressure and a corruption investigation, it is increasingly possible that the Israeli leader may soon have to face elections.
posted by petebest at 8:19 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

TPM quoting Politico (but fuck Politico and I'm lazy):

The report described a meeting that Trump had with members of the Freedom Caucus, in which members pelted him with "wonkish concerns" about specific aspects of the Republicans' bill to repeal and replace Obamacare. Trump cut them off, according to the report, wanting to keep it simple.

"Forget about the little shit," Trump said, unnamed sources told Politico."Let's focus on the big picture here."

That reportedly did not sit well with members in attendance.

I mean, holy shit. It's not like the fucking Freedom Caucus is known for their interest in policy, either. Did they really not know what they were getting?

The "loser clown" narrative continues to build, and fuck man, I am enjoying it. its just clownshoes all the way down. It's raining little red noses. I'm imagining this meeting involved at least one bottle of seltzer and someone turning around while holding a ladder.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [67 favorites]

Report: Bannon told conservatives 'this is not a debate,' you have to back bill

"Guys, look. This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. You have no choice but to vote for this bill,” Bannon reportedly said.

A Freedom Caucus member reportedly replied: “You know, the last time someone ordered me to something, I was 18 years old. And it was my daddy. And I didn't listen to him, either."

LOL
posted by zakur at 8:32 AM on March 25, 2017 [132 favorites]

@JohnJHarwood
by day 64, Trump has seen travel ban halted, FBI probe his associates, top priority fail in Congress, rating fall to 37%. bleak opening act

@dburbach Retweeted John Harwood
Wrong measures. Mar-a-Lago fee doubled, hotel booming, Ivanka sales up, massive PRC debt forgive for Jared. Wins on what Trump cares abt.
posted by chris24 at 8:32 AM on March 25, 2017 [97 favorites]

I would be willing to bring back the stocks for these people.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:35 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump's Triumph of Incompetence

In which NYT Opinion author Nicholas "Yaay let's invade Iraq!" Kristoff intones,

The Trump administration is increasingly showing itself to be breathtakingly incompetent, and that’s the real lesson of the collapse of the G.O.P. health care bill. The administration proved unable to organize its way out of a paper bag: After seven years of Republicans’ publicly loathing Obamacare, their repeal-replace bill failed after 18 days. . . .

Failure and weakness also build on themselves, and the health care debacle will make it more difficult for Trump to get his way with Congress on other issues. As people recognize that the emperor is wearing no clothes, that perception of weakness will spiral.

I'm shocked - Shocked! To find that gambling is going on in here!
posted by petebest at 8:39 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wrong measures. Mar-a-Lago fee doubled, hotel booming, Ivanka sales up, massive PRC debt forgive for Jared. Wins on what Trump cares abt.

I'd gladly give him the penny-ante corruption in exchange for continued agenda failure. It would be like when we could have bought Saddam off for $50 million. It would have been morally odious but so worth it when compared to spending trillions, destabalizing a continent, killing hundreds of thousands and threatening the core values of all of Western Civilization.
posted by srboisvert at 8:39 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

its just clownshoes all the way down
posted by achrise at 8:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

My god - it's full of farts . . .
posted by petebest at 8:44 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

All I want is a chrome extension that puts big red noses on all images of Republicans.

Do we have the technology
posted by schadenfrau at 8:46 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

There's a ton of access journalism going on in here, largely in the service of the hope that Trump keeps calling up Costa to chat, so it depicts him as an effective dealmaker, but it still paints a picture of a guy bumbling around, determined to make some kind of a deal, without any regard for the actual polices he's creating. It sounds like he thought he could schmooze his way to a deal by buttering people up and showing them the Oval Office, without doing the months worth of hard work to actually talk policy and build support.

Going by today's coverage of the pulling of the bill in the Washington Post, I think he might want to reconsider that strategy. Of course, that implies Trump is capable of learning, so I imagine he will do it again. Only with more whining and demented claims.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 8:49 AM on March 25, 2017

Hey all, remember all those fawning profiles of Cambridge Analytica and their All-Singing All-Dancing Best-of-Breed Micro-Targeting Pattern Matching Supervised Learning Big Data Powerhouse that propelled POTUS45 to victory by telling them to do rallies and spend ad money to appeal to Working Class White People in the Rust Belt while the Clinton campaign foolishly tried to use their dated legacy platform from the Obama era and came up just short? You'd think that if these guys had such a Game-Changing Earth-Shattering Paradigm-Shifting platform, they might have thought about deploying it to find out how to deploy their resources to win an actual policy battle. You mean to tell me they built a machine that can micro-target voters to within fractions of a percent can't use those same powers to find out how to peel off reps who will have to face those same voters in next year's primaries?

Except now they are the government and they don't just get to hire contractors willy-nilly like a campaign does. Nor do they get to use data willy-nilly like a campaign does.

Also thanks to the Republican's howls of rage over the Lincoln Bedroom scandal Presidents can't throw around campaign style favors as easily anymore.

Not that any of this matters because it presumes that Trump wants to play the game. Instead he got to the very first level puzzle of the Presidentin RPG and quit and threw his controller away and said "Just another day in paradise".
posted by srboisvert at 8:56 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Report: Bannon told conservatives 'this is not a debate,' you have to back bill

Wait, I thought Bannon was string-pulling against the bill? I don't know what to believe any more.
posted by Hal Mumkin at 9:06 AM on March 25, 2017

>"Forget about the little shit," Trump said, unnamed sources told Politico."Let's focus on the big picture here."

'Forget about what you want. Let's focus on what I want.'

The Deal-Maker. The Great Negotiator. I imagine he got a reaction something like this.

posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:07 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

> Except now they are the government and they don't just get to hire contractors willy-nilly like a campaign does. Nor do they get to use data willy-nilly like a campaign does.

What's going to stop them? Who can even see the lines between the administration and "the administration" clearly enough to enforce them, even if they had the political will to do so? Ivanka Trump gets a WH office and a TS clearance, but they couldn't finagle a way to get their analytics firm to do some research for them? I don't see it.

But you're right about how it's no big deal to him. As the tweet above about Mar-a-Lago fees and debt forgiveness show, he's getting most of what he really cares about. The rubes don't get their ACA repeal; he continues golfing and rage-tweeting.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:17 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

'Forget about what you want. Let's focus on what I want.'

In fairness, I think it's quite possible that he didn't bother researching the policy demands of the Freedom Caucus, and didn't understand his own bill beyond what he vaguely recalled from Fox and Friends discussions and the executive summary.

It was pretty stupid to send a flim-flam man to do a wonk's negotiation job.
posted by jaduncan at 9:18 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

"ObamaCare will explode and we will all get together and piece together a great healthcare plan for THE PEOPLE. Do not worry!". Today's Trump tweet is just as unhinged as one would expect, even without a side-order of vitriol; can you imagine any sane politician saying that people shouldn't worry about the "explosion" of healthcare provision? Trump is so utterly incapable of admitting defeat that he'd sooner admit that his policy platforms are meaningless game-playing, and that he doesn't give a damn about the lives that would be lost as a result of the "explosion" of Obamacare. It's even more extraordinary that this is now apparently an unremarkable position for him to espouse.
posted by howfar at 9:18 AM on March 25, 2017 [42 favorites]

> Except now they are the government and they don't just get to hire contractors willy-nilly like a campaign does. Nor do they get to use data willy-nilly like a campaign does.

Trump has an open campaign, of course.
posted by jaduncan at 9:19 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

There was a lot of talk about punishing and primary-challenging Republicans who votes against the bill. So what's the significance of not even holding a vote? Is that the Freedom Caucus defeating the rest of the House Republicans by not exposing themselves? Or is it the House Republicans uniting against the threat of Trump by refusing the chance to be marked out? Or something else entirely?
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:19 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

"Guys, look. This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. You have no choice but to vote for this bill,” Bannon reportedly said.

A Freedom Caucus member reportedly replied: “You know, the last time someone ordered me to something, I was 18 years old. And it was my daddy. And I didn't listen to him, either."

I think somebody might be starting to realize that producing Seinfeld doesn't mean you get to be Hitler.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:20 AM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

A tweet with side by side photos of the democrats and republicans giving press conferences yesterday: "Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan," AHCA edition
posted by peeedro at 9:21 AM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

I think somebody might be starting to realize that producing Seinfeld doesn't mean you get to be Hitler.

Actually you do, but only with soup.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think both the WH and Bannon in particular were pushing for a vote because they wanted a loyalty litmus test. They didn't give a shit about the bill, obviously. Ryan decided to pull it because he figured it was the least worst option, pulling the bill didn't let it die on the floor in full view of CSPAN and denied the WH their enemies list.
posted by gofargogo at 9:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

I've been watching all this go down while being too busy/travelling and so unable to join in the mefigleefest - with cake already. But I've been feeling the joy, oh yes I have.

There are parallels with the UK - here, the wingnuts have got their wish and, as in all good fairy tales, have found that they didn't quite think things through in ways that the granting has made cruelly apparent. I hope that this is the point where a consistent message that thoughtful, aware, evidence-based politics isn't a bad idea, because look at the alternative, can start to get some momentum back.

I mean. Look at them. Just look.
posted by Devonian at 9:30 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: ObamaCare will explode and we will all get together and piece together a great healthcare plan for THE PEOPLE. Do not worry!

This is also the first Android tweet in 17 days. So he still has his phone.
posted by chris24 at 9:33 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

What's going to stop them? Who can even see the lines between the administration and "the administration" clearly enough to enforce them, even if they had the political will to do so? Ivanka Trump gets a WH office and a TS clearance, but they couldn't finagle a way to get their analytics firm to do some research for them? I don't see it.

That they can't cut checks is what stops them.

Trump won't be pulling out his own checkbook either.
posted by srboisvert at 9:36 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

The "loser clown" narrative continues to build, and fuck man, I am enjoying it.

I tried to warn everybody he was a clown, but maybe we just had to learn the hard way...
posted by saulgoodman at 9:37 AM on March 25, 2017

Today's Trump tweet is just as unhinged as one would expect, even without a side-order of vitriol; can you imagine any sane politician saying that people shouldn't worry about the "explosion" of healthcare provision? Trump is so utterly incapable of admitting defeat that he'd sooner admit that his policy platforms are meaningless game-playing, and that he doesn't give a damn about the lives that would be lost as a result of the "explosion" of Obamacare. It's even more extraordinary that this is now apparently an unremarkable position for him to espouse.

One Democrat with a spine will hopefully stand up on national TV at some point and say "What the fuck is wrong with you? The people who will be affected by this aren't pawns in some political game. They're people. When you strip essential health benefits from their plans, when you make healthcare more expensive, when you tell us that people will choose to go off health insurance that they need when really they can't afford it. I don't know how you can do it with a straight face little alone looking people in the eye you worthless, small handed, orange shitstain."

That Democrat will hopefully be president in 2020.
posted by Talez at 9:39 AM on March 25, 2017 [47 favorites]

> [...] throw a shoe at the Spiceweasel, then it's Tweetin' Time!!

Oh please let this catch on... If I ever see a "Blasts from the Spiceweasel" segment (Bam!) on some late night show, I'll die a happy man.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:41 AM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

> That they can't cut checks is what stops them.

I think Trump's history of stiffing his staff and contractors shows that anyone taking the work would expect to be doing it with the expectation that they won't get paid. But of course if Bannon, Jared, Ivanka, Don Jr., or anyone else in the Trump inner circle did want to pay someone, they could find a way to funnel the payment through the family's vast network of subsidiaries. If they get caught, what's the worst thing that happens? Daddy has to pardon them?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:42 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

>What's going to stop them?

>That they can't cut checks is what stops them.

Mercers are billionaires. They can write all the checks they want. The Mercers own Cambridge Analytica. Both Bannon and Conway worked or are still working for the Mercers.
posted by JackFlash at 9:50 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

>> I think a lot of authoritarians in office suddenly saw a lot of silver hair on Trump's back when he won the nomination.

> Definitely, but that's why failures like AHCA and the blocked Muslim bans are important. They're revealing that most of that silver hair was just painted on the whole time.

Not painted on, sprayed on.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 9:55 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Incompetent" seems to be the word of the day.

"I have never seen an administration as incompetent as the one occupying the White House." - Schumer

Would love to hear more Ds saying this on the air, but the media is obsessed with putting Rs on to give their side of the story for their abject failure.
posted by rouftop at 10:02 AM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

NBC: President Trump is now at Trump National Golf Club in Virginia, per pool; it's his 12th golf course trip since taking office 9 weeks ago

Winning is hard.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:07 AM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

My perspective on ill-fitting suits--I don't care. I don't care what he wears, or she wears, or you wear. Actually, I'd be happier if they wore discount jeans and donated the extra cash to someone who needs it, someone who can't afford a winter coat for their child. I also don't care what he eats, or she eats, or you eat, at least as far as political discourse goes. As far as tiny hands and big ears, I think "born this way" applies. I'd like to see less focus on appearance, and more on words and actions.
posted by a fish out of water at 10:08 AM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Cambridge Analytica, like everything else in this administration, is a con.
posted by maggiemaggie at 10:11 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

Just repeat the mantra:

Obama, golf is play
Trump, golf is work

See? All better now.
posted by valkane at 10:11 AM on March 25, 2017

How Obamacare Became a Preexisting Condition: Wrapping up a wild week in Washington.

What happened to the Republicans this week was different by an order of magnitude. They cored themselves out as a party. They allowed the most extreme element in their caucus to set rules that became untenable and would have been even if Paul Ryan was as good a Speaker as Nancy Pelosi once was. By the middle of the week, the bill was caught in an impossible whipsaw of political imperatives. To get the Freedom Caucus cultists on board, the president* and Speaker Ryan had to make the bill even more cruel and punitive—Work requirements for Medicaid? Men asking why they had to pay for some woman's maternity care?—and, having done so, it scared the daylights over what passes for a moderate faction in the House Republican caucus. The negotiations bounced impotently back and forth for three days, going absolutely nowhere. On Friday, the White House took its ball and went home.
...
To be fair, the president* took the defeat rather better than I thought he would, which is to say he blamed the Democrats, repeated claim that the Affordable Care Act is gasping its last breath, and was so fulsome in his sympathy for Paul Ryan that, were I Ryan, I'd hire a food taster. Somebody's going to pay for this. You can be sure of that. Meanwhile, as Paul Ryan said, Obamacare remains the law of the land. The Rotunda was still packed with tourists when the news came down and you wondered how many people there had somehow been helped by the Affordable Care Act. Maybe it's that elderly gent looking up at the statue of Huey Long, or that kid in the wheelchair paused beneath Norman Borlaug. Obamacare is now a pre-existing condition, and a damned stubborn one at that.

posted by homunculus at 10:41 AM on March 25, 2017 [19 favorites]

> "Hey look, in the mean time, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know. Say hello to everybody OK?" — the TIME interview

The Fuck Was That Trump Interview in Time?

But the other thing that comes through is just how pathetically weird and confused and obsessed our goddamn president is. Look at this line from towards the end of the interview: "I inherited a mess with jobs, despite the statistics, you know, my statistics are even better, but they are not the real statistics because you have millions of people that can’t get a job, ok." What does that even say? Because it sounds like "Numbers aren't numbers unless they're my numbers but my numbers are too good to be true because if they're right that means that the earlier numbers are right so fuck numbers and go with what I think is true."

It's mind-boggling in its utter and complete degradation of language and logic. As Trump has proven time and again, George W. Bush was a goddamned member of the Algonquin Round Table by comparison. And Trump's ego is so fragile that it's like house made of tissue-paper cards. He wants you to know that he is a genius: "I’m a very instinctual person, but my instinct turns out to be right. When everyone said I wasn’t going to win the election, I said well I think I would." Motherfucker, that's not instinct. That's being a candidate for office. Of course, you think you're gonna win. Why brag about that? It's like saying, "Man, no one thought I was going to take a shit today, but, I took a shit. I showed them."

posted by homunculus at 10:51 AM on March 25, 2017 [62 favorites]

This bit from Ezra Klein is good:

On Wednesday, I wrote about the closing argument President Donald Trump was making to skittish Republican legislators. Vote for the bill, he’s been telling them, or you’ll lose your seat.

That night, I received a call from a Democratic senator. He’d read the piece, and it had reminded him of the closing argument President Barack Obama made to skittish Democratic legislators. Vote for the bill, Obama told them, because it’s worth losing your seat.

If that doesn't sum up the entire difference between their approaches right there.
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 AM on March 25, 2017 [213 favorites]

Sarah Binder's take.

(Sarah is one of the top few people on congressional procedure; I've seen a few congress scholars pointing at this and saying "Yup.")
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Vote for the bill, Obama told them, because it’s worth losing your seat.

Even Republicans are coming to realize the differences between Obama/Pelosi and Trump/Ryan. Tweetstorm from Jay Cost at the Weekly Standard:

---

- Do you guys remember the Stupak Democrat thing in 2010? Bart Stupak and like 10 other Dems were holding the whole Obamacare program up.

- Pelosi didn't set an arbitrary deadline and when they didn't fold, said, "OK THAT IS IT I'M PULLING THE BILL!"

- She worked 'em, and she worked 'em, and she worked 'em ... then she GOT 'em.

- Why did she do that but Ryan & Trump walked away after like 20 days? She wanted it bad enough to risk her majority. Ryan & Trump don't. (my bold)

- That, my friends, is the difference. Repealing Obamacare might be a hill you're willing to die on. But it ain't Trump or Ryan's.

- Pelosi and the congressional Dems were like the Charge of the Light Brigade in 2010.
"All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred."
They knew it was gonna be brutal. But they did it because they thought it their duty.

-But Ryan? C'mon. Guy's heart is in tax reform. As for Trump, reforming the individual insurance market ain't gonna MAGA.
posted by chris24 at 11:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [55 favorites]

Obamacare royalties? How does that even get collected? Does the doctor stuff some cash into an envelope every time a patient comes in and says, "Obama sent me"? Do hospitals have to put out coin boxes for collecting a quarter each time the word "Obamacare" is used? Or is it a straight up signing fee insurance companies pay for every new enrollee? I would love to see an explanation of what these royalties are and how they get collected.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:26 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Obamacare royalties are the tax you pay everytime you order a large pepperoni from Pizzagate.
posted by valkane at 11:28 AM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

The news from MAGAhats on Twitter responding favorably to @realdonaldtrump is astoundingly bonkers.

Same as it ever was. TDS correspondent Jordan Klepper interviewed Trump supporters at the Memphis rally last week.

One man said, “I’m going to be honest, I don’t know that much about Trumpcare.”

He said that he preferred it to Obamacare because Trumpcare literally sounded better. The man added, “As long as it says Trump, you won’t be thinking about how bad it is.”

Watch the whole thing if you can. These people are all kinds of bonkers.
posted by zakur at 11:28 AM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Pence is currently giving a speech talking about how important repeal and replace is.

He's quite possibly more deranged than Trump.
posted by Yowser at 11:28 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Obamacare is going to explode! If there were only some party which controls all of the branches of government who could do something to fix it.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

OBAMACARE ROYALTIES, y'all.

...

Ok so. Traditionally, what has been the remedy for misinformation campaigns? Because the multiplier effect of the Internet and, in particular, Facebook, has made a qualitative difference in the nature of the threat such campaigns represent to the republic, civil order, and the fabric of fucking space time.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

Pretty sure the only Obamacare royalties are King Vita-Man and Count/Archduke Chocula.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:30 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

I keep coming back to the idea that 1/3 of humanity might just be terrible. Like in any random sample, you're going to have the True Asshole and then the people just dumb and mean enough to follow that True Asshole all the way to Assholevanyia. I don't really know what to do about that, tbh.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:38 AM on March 25, 2017 [46 favorites]

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) gets booed after calling Obamacare a disaster during a town hall in Columbia, South Carolina.
posted by futz at 11:44 AM on March 25, 2017 [62 favorites]

Politico is reporting that a source close to @POTUS says he's being advised to replace Reince & is open to possibility -- healthcare was last straw.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:48 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

I hope that somebody said to Trump "if you keep Reince, you'll just have the same problems over and over again. Remember that old saying, Donald. Reince... and repeat."

I regret nothing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:53 AM on March 25, 2017 [65 favorites]

$10 says "source close to @POTUS" = Bannon
posted by zakur at 11:53 AM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

Would love to hear more Ds saying this on the air, but the media is obsessed with putting Rs on to give their side of the story for their abject failure.

I was really supremely pissed that yesterday late afternoon/evening, the news channels seemed to be nothing but fucking Republicans given a forum to whine some more about Obamacare and how terrible it is. You know, if your party controls the White House and both houses of Congress and you still can't get your shitty excuse for a substitute through, and we all know you don't even particularly want to do anything related to healthcare anyhow except piss on it, then maybe you should SHUT YOUR FUCKING PIEHOLE NOW FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

If the Democrats and all the grassroots folks who worked their asses off to strike fear into the hearts of their Republican reps and listened to a decade of non-stop ACA-dissing deserve anything as a reward, it's a few days of being able to eat their delicious goddamn cake in peace and quiet.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:54 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

The funny thing is, I'm convinced Reince is still the most competent senior staffer in the White House. He's a complete shit and I have no appreciation for him, but he's literally the only name I recognize from senior staff who is qualified to be working there.

So at that point, I'm torn between "Get rid of him and see how fast your next big initiative falls apart" versus "Oh god if they get rid of him the first Muslim Ban will look like the least harmful roll-out they've ever done."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:57 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

I keep coming back to the idea that 1/3 of humanity might just be terrible.

I have to agree. And sadly my mother is one of them. I've mentioned before that I ended relations with her after Trump won because of her avid support of him. And glancing at her Twitter today it's filled with retweets of PrisonPlanet of Infowars, VDare, Coulter, Ingraham and the rest of the Hitler Youth.

For years I pretended her awful beliefs and actions were because of her misguided evangelicalism. But after she embraced the very antithesis of those supposed beliefs, I could no longer pretend it was the beliefs that were terrible. It's my mom who's terrible. Religion just gave her an outlet and excuse for her hate, small-mindedness and bigotry.

I'm actually glad to come to this clarification because the tacit acceptance of her beliefs, beliefs that harmed people I loved, was taking its toll. And I also think that too often people are excused for heinous beliefs because they are old or family. I know I did it. So maybe refusing to have her in my life will make her reconsider some things. In all likelihood it won't wake her up one iota, make her change a single belief, but I feel better about it and feel like I'm doing the most I can now after decades of trying to change her through dialogue.
posted by chris24 at 11:57 AM on March 25, 2017 [113 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: ObamaCare will explode and we will all get together and piece together a great healthcare plan for THE PEOPLE.

So...the three bucket strategy became the "fuckit" strategy when it comes to Health Care reforms?
posted by nubs at 12:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

A sudden sensation of dread came over Priebus as the cold and metallic taste of Nixon Submission Meatloaf returned to his palate like a vengeful revenant
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [19 favorites]

I'm with you. I'm still so sorry that you have to do it, and that you had to carry that for so many years. My family's flavor of crazy/awful is different, but I feel for anyone who's had to come to that realization, in that visceral way, and it feels like there are so many of them in the past few months. I'm usually better as the war-rig mentioned up thread, but I have like a million hugs for all of you anyway (shiny and chrome).
posted by schadenfrau at 12:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

All the GOP controlled states that rejected expanding Medicaid - what are the odds of them doing an abrupt u-turn on this as they now stand to lose out on tons of federal funding?
posted by PenDevil at 12:13 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm with you.

I'm also with you. Anyone who retweets Ann Coulter is dead to me. Now and always.
posted by puddledork at 12:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Um, Priebus is their one remaining link to the institutional party, right?

Literally Bannon's plan is to go to war with the GOP?

I'm feeling...tingly.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:15 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Hmmm... you know, it is never good to hook your cart to crazy horse and then act surprised when you are in the ditch or careening all around the road. So, the billionaires that supported Trump, such as the Mercers, Hubbard, Thiel, Devos what happens to them? What is the new calculus, if any?
posted by jadepearl at 12:18 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

So, the billionaires that supported Trump, such as the Mercers, Hubbard, Thiel, Devos what happens to them? What is the new calculus, if any?

They continue to float above us all on their giant clouds of money untouched by anything.
posted by srboisvert at 12:25 PM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

So pleased about the fail of Trumpcare. Except while we've been celebrating, Trump has changed the rules of engagement in the Middle East and is killing so many civilians the monitoring groups cannot keep up.
posted by suelac at 12:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [54 favorites]

Nixon Submission Meatloaf

You know, this entered our vocabulary only a few days ago it seems, and every time I see it, I <3 MeFi Folks just a little more than I ever thought possible. Thanks for being there for me. And a big round of applause to the Mods, who perform the nigh impossible task of keepin this train on the tracks...
posted by mikelieman at 12:29 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Suelac:
Holy fuck, killing their families indeed. This kind of conduct makes me absolutely furious. It's immoral and disgusting. Not only that, but it has ZERO practical benefits. They are fucking writing IS' propaganda for them!
posted by constantinescharity at 12:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

From the Cambridge Anal article above,

In Latvia, SCL said it ran a campaign in 2006 designed to stoke tensions between Latvians and ethnic Russian residents: “In essence, Russians were blamed for unemployment and other problems affecting the economy,” an SCL document said. Nix confirms the firm’s role, saying that its research found that such tensions would “influence voting behavior.”

Well these are just good people, that's clear.
posted by petebest at 12:39 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) gets booed after calling Obamacare a disaster during a town hall in Columbia, South Carolina.

I watched that press conference. It was weird to watch because he kept saying good stuff then absolutely shoot himself in the foot with Republican orthodoxy.
posted by Talez at 12:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

In regards to the Beristain article that petebest linked above -- I'm going to dance and sing inside every time a Trump-voting asshole feels the consequences of their actions. I feel sorry for her husband and her kids, but she voted in the hopes of enjoying the suffering of other people and too late discovered that the monster was happy to eat her too.
posted by tavella at 12:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

the news channels seemed to be nothing but fucking Republicans given a forum to whine some more about Obamacare and how terrible it is.

Corporate news exists to make a profit. That's it - it serves no "function" except in textbooks or in theory. In actuality it sells trucks, boner pills, and rage and has no other purpose save accidentally.

Plus weather with Pat McFlahrety at 5, 6, and 10. And now these messages.
posted by petebest at 12:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I keep coming back to the idea that 1/3 of humanity might just be terrible.

This has been my belief for quite some time. Like, true shitgibbon assholes aren't necessarily the majority, but they're a significant enough minority that if the non-assholes look away for even a second... well, here we are. Because the thing about assholes is that they don't care, and in that lack of caring is power disproportionate to their size. When you don't give much of a shit about hurting people, and you definitely definitely don't give a shit about helping people...again, here we are.

The Confucians, like many philosophers, were concerned about man's essential nature, and Xunzi minced no words when he literally said "human nature stinks." And you have to work goddamn hard to wash that stink off (Xunzi recommends ritual and filial piety, ymmv). Most of us care enough to give it a go, but a not insignificant proportion are like, nah, I'm good.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:48 PM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

Nixon Submission Meatloaf

If you thought Bat Out of Hell 2 was a bad idea, wait til you hear the album that was quietly pulled from stores and buried in the desert.
posted by petebest at 12:50 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

toldja: freedom bombs. good job.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:53 PM on March 25, 2017

Except while we've been celebrating, Trump has changed the rules of engagement in the Middle East and is killing so many civilians the monitoring groups cannot keep up.

But the Green Party said that Obama was killing so many people in the Middle East that they'd never know the difference between the two presidents!

I'm pretty sure they care about civilians in the Middle East the same way the religious right cares about babies: they want to save lives (we'll take that at face value), but only if they're saving them the right way.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 12:59 PM on March 25, 2017 [20 favorites]

I feel sorry for her husband and her kids, but she voted in the hopes of enjoying the suffering of other people and too late discovered that the monster was happy to eat her too.

From what I recall of some article I read about this, she just wanted a chaaaaaange!

Problem is, when you want a chaaaaaaaaaaange you gotta be real sure what you want. You probably shouldn't vote "chaaaaange!" if the chaaaaaaaange is pretty obviously "burn everyone down to the ground." If you ignored that, that's on you. Also, it was pretty stupid to think "bad hombres" actually meant that when you knew darned well your husband had come to the attention of the law once while being brown and undocumented. At this point if you're brown and sneezed in the vicinity of a cop once, it's probably enough to be dubbed a bad hombre in need of booting.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:05 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

Two seconds thinking about ICE should let you know that as a gang of racist and corrupt lazy assholes when given carte blanch they're going to do whatever hurts the most people for least effort. That's going to be hurting people with families and relationships and leaving "bad hombres" well alone.
posted by Artw at 1:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Well, look, she wanted leopards to eat people's faces, y'know, but this. This affects her. That wasn't made clear. Enough. By Fox News
posted by petebest at 1:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

All the GOP controlled states that rejected expanding Medicaid - what are the odds of them doing an abrupt u-turn on this as they now stand to lose out on tons of federal funding?

Yes, now that they see Obamacare as inevitable, there is no reason to hold out for craven political purposes and pass up billions in federal dollars. But perhaps more important, Seema Verma is set to take over CMS and she has great discretion in issuing waivers to states that don't comply with the Obamacare rules for administering Medicaid expansion, making it easier to swallow for recalcitrant states -- and that's not all good, as explained below.

The Obamacare rules for Medicaid expansion were designed to replace the arbitrary and capricious variety of qualifications for Medicaid that each state previously prescribed. This generally meant that no one except disabled and single parents with children were eligible for Medicaid, no matter how poor.

Obamacare simplified this by saying that anyone below a certain income level was eligible for Medicaid health insurance. Simple, sweet and completely uniform in every state.

Verma said about the convoluted Medicaid waiver she created in Indiana"This structure melds two themes of American society that typically collide in our healthcare system, rugged individualism and the Judeo Christian ethic." So expect lots of degrading and unnecessary hoops for Medicaid applicants to jump through in Red states to discourage participation, the complete opposite of Obamacare's intent.

It may not be pretty but at least some of the 4 million uninsured among the poor in states like Texas and Florida may finally get a chance at healthcare.
posted by JackFlash at 1:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) gets booed after calling Obamacare a disaster during a town hall in Columbia, South Carolina.

And he chuckles, smiles, and gives the booing crowd a thumbs-up. I thought Graham was supposed to be one of the non-psychopath Republicans.
posted by zakur at 1:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Anyone who retweets Ann Coulter is dead to me. Now and always

I feel the same way about people helping Jennifer Rubin rehabilitate her image.
posted by rhizome at 1:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Real Threat to National Security: Deadly Disease. We need to be budgeting to defend against the next pandemic.
posted by homunculus at 1:23 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Problem is, when you want a chaaaaaaaaaaange you gotta be real sure what you want. You probably shouldn't vote "chaaaaange!" if the chaaaaaaaange is pretty obviously "burn everyone down to the ground." If you ignored that, that's on you. Also, it was pretty stupid to think "bad hombres" actually meant that when you knew darned well your husband had come to the attention of the law once while being brown and undocumented. At this point if you're brown and sneezed in the vicinity of a cop once, it's probably enough to be dubbed a bad hombre in need of booting.

oh no
posted by Talez at 1:23 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

I'm taking a break from systematically copy/pasting twitter into MetaFilter to show up at the Nancy Pelosi/Jackie Speier townhall. It's a fairly Indivisible-heavy crowd so far. The main agenda item seems to be to ask Pelosi to cosponsor HR 676, the Medicare for All bill.
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on March 25, 2017 [19 favorites]

"Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan,"

I originally read that as feathers and was trying to picture victory looking very fine, perhaps like an eagle or a peacock.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

I thought Graham was supposed to be one of the non-psychopath Republicans.

Oh, no. Nope. No, no, no. Heh. Just, no. Graham? Noooooo. Nooope. No.Nuh-uh. No.
posted by Cookiebastard at 1:39 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

zachlipton is anyone streaming that on facebook?
posted by supercrayon at 1:39 PM on March 25, 2017

University of New Hampshire Professor/Huffington Post Political Columnist @SethAbramson :

(THREAD) BREAKING: Harvard professor and @CNN political analyst Juliette Kayyem says, per sources, Michael Flynn may have flipped on Trump.
(1) First, as an attorney I want to make clear that, if this @CNN analyst's sources are correct, the #Russiagate scandal is blown wide open.
(2) The FBI flips witnesses, turning them into cooperating individuals, _only_ when they can help secure conviction of a bigger "target."
(3) Michael Flynn was the National Security Adviser for the President of the United States. The only _bigger_ target is Donald J. Trump.
(4) But Flynn also held a clandestine meeting with Russian ambassador/spy Sergey Kislyak and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner in December '16.
(5) And Flynn coordinated with infamous Iran-Contra figure and Russian oil/gas pipeline advocate Bud McFarlane in hiring Trump's Deputy NSA.
(6) And of course Flynn had the highest possible clearance and greatest possible access to POTUS in discussing matters of national security.
(7) Flynn's hire as NSA was controversial--even suspicious--when it was made due to Flynn's absolutely _terrible_ reputation in Washington.
(8) This suggests the hire wasn't based on merit, but rather the fact that Flynn is _known_ to have ties (in-person ties) to Vladimir Putin.
(9) We should conclude from the foregoing that Flynn was in the best position of _anyone_ involved in #Russiagate to see _all_ its contours.
(10) Given all of the above, we can say that if any one person could bring down Trump due to #Russiagate, it's the man the FBI may now have.

That's a yuge IF, of course, but #russiagate, or whatever we're calling this scandal, is potentially yuge, too. And if it blows open just when Trump's failed spectacularly on Capitol Hill, the political timing to go after him couldn't be better.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:43 PM on March 25, 2017 [52 favorites]

From my sources and what has been openly reported, it increasingly looks like #Flynn may have a deal with the FBI. #trumprussia
posted by un petit cadeau at 1:43 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

No definitive source yet but the story is spreading that Michael Flynn has flipped.
posted by scalefree at 1:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Jinx! Co-Jinx!
posted by scalefree at 1:46 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Alex Jones Apologizes for 'Pizzagate' Fake News

Meanwhile, Protesters outside White House demand ‘Pizzagate’ investigation

Hayes wore a shirt saying “Pizzagate is Not Fake News.” His wife, Danielle, 31, wore one reading “Investigate Pizzagate.”

Their three children, ages 9, 5 and 2, each wore shirts saying “I Am Not Pizza #pizzagate.”

[...]

“Don’t you dare imply that we are crazy ones,” said one woman into a megaphone.

“Right?” said Danielle Hayes as she watched from the audience, pushing a baby stroller.

“Hold my hand baby,” she said, reaching for her 5-year-old daughter in the Pizzagate t-shirt and casting a quick glance at the city around her.

“This is where the monsters live,” she said. “That’s why we’re here.”

Those poor kids.
posted by zakur at 1:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [46 favorites]

Speaking of Flynn and Russiagate, guess who was also at the January meeting between Flynn and Turkish officials?

Devin Nunes.
posted by chris24 at 1:49 PM on March 25, 2017 [55 favorites]

Kayyem is a bit more than a talking head/Harvard professor. She was an assistant secretary of homeland security under Obama.
posted by adamg at 1:49 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Or it means that Flynn will help Comey, Nunes, and the rest brush it all under the rug.
posted by kewb at 1:50 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Was just about to post the Flynn thing too. It's possible that you flip Flynn to get a lesser target than Trump. Like Manafort or others who were high up in the Trump campaign. But you're only one degree away from Trump at that point.

It also calls further attention to FBI Director Comey visiting the White House yesterday after Paul Ryan left. No reason for the meeting was given.
posted by dry white toast at 1:51 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Supercrayon: I think it will be on Pelosi/Speier's Facebook pages. Let me know if it's not streamed anyway and I can do an awful handheld stream if needed.
posted by zachlipton at 1:51 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

(THREAD) BREAKING: Harvard professor and @CNN political analyst Juliette Kayyem says, per sources, Michael Flynn may have flipped on Trump.

OK, who's birthday is it today? You know what to do
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:51 PM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

Their three children, ages 9, 5 and 2, each wore shirts saying “I Am Not Pizza #pizzagate.”

I wish the best for these children and possibly even more so for the poor teacher who has to read the resulting 'what I did over spring break' essay
posted by flatluigi at 1:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm really hoping Juliette Kayyem doesn't turn out to be the Andrew Napolitano of the left.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Or it means that Flynn will help Comey, Nunes, and the rest brush it all under the rug.

How does that work though? The FBI's job isn't to help a political campaign cover up wrong-doing. Exactly the opposite. And if that were the case, Flynn wouldn't need protection from prosecution to do that.
posted by dry white toast at 1:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is the Flynn thing real life? I said this was my pet theory! I am so happy!
posted by Justinian at 1:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

I already sank a growler full of an 8.5% tripel today to celebrate the AHCA going down. If this RussiaGate thing turns out to be real and connected to Trump or someone in his inner circle, I may need to get on the waiting list for a new liver by tomorrow.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

The "teacher" to those children is likely a relative, home "schooling."
posted by thebrokedown at 1:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Protesters outside White House demand ‘Pizzagate’ investigation

Wonder if they know about Alex Jones retraction?
posted by PenDevil at 1:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Speaking of Flynn and Russiagate, guess who was also at the January meeting between Flynn and Turkish officials?

Devin Nunes.

Just when I thought I couldn't even anymore I realize I really finally can't even.
posted by dis_integration at 1:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [20 favorites]

MetaFilter: In actuality it sells trucks, boner pills, and rage and has no other purpose save accidentally.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Flynn should really avoid any single engine aircraft and people carrying umbrellas in sunny weather for the foreseeable future.
posted by Justinian at 1:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

...Also, it was pretty stupid to think "bad hombres" actually meant...

Something! Or anything!

In this overabundance of horrible and just-plain-dumb things, this may really be the thing that might be driving me nuts the most/the most nuts.

DJT says often says things aren't particularly meaningful in a specific sense - so people get to read into them whatever they are going to read into them. I sure don't like bad hombres, but I know my husband is not a bad hombre, so LET'S GO GIT'EM DADDY TRUMP!

It's just crazy-making to me watching people realize the repercussions of things that they maybe should have thought through before they dropped a turd in the ballot box. Why didn't they see this kind of thing coming?

/end rant - sorry.
posted by Golem XIV at 1:59 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Forget Pizzagate, here's Nothingburgergate (or Nothingburghazi?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:00 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Flynn should really avoid any single engine aircraft and people carrying umbrellas in sunny weather for the foreseeable future.

And cars & upper story windows.
posted by scalefree at 2:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hey did you guys hear about Flypping Flynn? Intresting if true. /Cosell

The recent post on Lynda Carter's Rock 'n Roll Fantasy seems relevant in this thread somehow. Dancing gorillas? Disco KISS? I can't quite place it yet.

Probably the coke.
posted by petebest at 2:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Welp, it may be true.

Flynn's spokesperson says he is "not responding" to questions on if he is cooperating with the FBI per @lrozen. That's... interesting.
posted by chris24 at 2:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Even if Flynn isn't definitely cooperating, the fact that rumors are even swirling may lead Manafort to a mad dash to try and get the first best deal.
posted by chris24 at 2:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Carter Page and Roger Stone quickly banded together with Manafort in agreeing to testify before Congress. Wonder why we haven't heard from Flynn about getting with the team and jumping on that bandwagon?
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Let's say Flynn's testimony is enough to land Manafort or Kushner. Can DJT issue a Presidential pardon before any trials take place? And if so why would anyone cooperate with any investigation?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:20 PM on March 25, 2017

Whats the prescident on self pardoning?
posted by Artw at 2:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

So if and when Flynn flips, and if more follow, it ain't gonna be pretty. (via)
posted by maudlin at 2:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Unless Manafort is the FBI's target. If anyone laid the groundwork for Russia to influence Trump and Trump's campaign it was him.

I don't believe that Trump was the mastermind of anything. He was just someone that Russia saw could be easily duped. Not that that makes him less worthy of impeachment.

As long as Nunes is controlling the House Intelligence Committee, nothing germane is going to come out of testimony it gathers. It seems more likely that Nunes is orchestrating Page, Stone, and Manafort's appearance to give them a soft landing and try to portray a sense that the investigation is much ado about nothing.
posted by dry white toast at 2:23 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Let's say Flynn's testimony is enough to land Manafort or Kushner. Can DJT issue a Presidential pardon before any trials take place? And if so why would anyone cooperate with any investigation?

Trump can pardon them anytime, even beforehand. But a pre-emptive pardon would look terrible for Trump and bring the scandal directly to his doorstop. And IANAL, but pardons don't allow you to get out of testifying about what you know. And in fact, with pardons you could no longer take the 5th if I'm not mistaken.
posted by chris24 at 2:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

If you were under FBI investigation for selling out US interests to foreign powers, would you take the chance that Trump could file an ironclad presidential pardon any better than his shoddily composed executive orders?
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:25 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

The discussion upthread about Ryan's and Trump's suits reminded me of literally the only hope I had about the next four years: that maybe, if the President has any influence over fashion (and not all do, but sometimes you get a Kennedy or a Truman), just maybe we could get back to more relaxed tailoring. Sure, we don't all need to go around in shapeless potato sacks and Scotch-taping our ties (for God's sake), but it would have been nice to have somebody in the public eye showing that it's OK for suits not to be some skin-tight, Pee Wee Herman-ass, Tom Ford bellhop jacket and clamdiggers nonsense.
posted by MrBadExample at 2:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

So if and when Flynn flips, and if more follow, it ain't gonna be pretty.

It's going to be *beautiful*.

Trying to tamp down my hopes here...dammit, Ode to Joy, get out of my head!
posted by uosuaq at 2:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

If you get immunity from prosecution, there's no crime/conviction for which to pardon you.

And yeah, if my choice were that, or trusting Trump to bail me out, I'd take immunity. More likely that Trump saw Flynn as being able to take the fall.
posted by dry white toast at 2:28 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is like when you're watching a tense crime drama and the cops and the hard-assed DA start putting together their airtight RICO case against the local mob.
posted by supercrayon at 2:30 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

BIRTHDAYS FOR EVERYBODY
posted by schadenfrau at 2:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [55 favorites]

Carter Page and Roger Stone quickly banded together with Manafort in agreeing to testify before Congress.

No, it says they refused to shut up about how unfair everyone's been to them and they want to "talk to the committee". a.k.a. Bullshit.

In fact it actively harms the investigation as surely somebody involved, most probably not Stone or Page, realizes.
posted by petebest at 2:33 PM on March 25, 2017

if the President has any influence over fashion (and not all do, but sometimes you get a Kennedy or a Truman), just maybe we could get back to more relaxed tailoring. Sure, we don't all need to go around in shapeless potato sacks and Scotch-taping our ties (for God's sake), but it would have been nice to have somebody in the public eye showing that it's OK for suits not to be some skin-tight, Pee Wee Herman-ass, Tom Ford bellhop jacket and clamdiggers nonsense.

Fuck that shit. I'm female. If I have to suffer (and I do), then men have no reason to complain at all about wanting tailoring to be 'relaxed'.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 2:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

Today is the birthday of both Elton "I'm Still Standing" John and Aretha ""R-E-S-P-E-C-T" Franklin. Also Big Sean "I Don't Fuck With You". And non-musical legend Gloria Steinem.

As the story develops, tomorrow we get Diana Ross (representing The Supremes), Steven Tyler (representing The Stevens), Leonard Nimoy (representing logic), and Larry Page (representing Google). Monday's biggest name is Quentin Tarantino, so it'll be a good day for a bloodbath.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:46 PM on March 25, 2017 [32 favorites]

per chris24's link above,
Published
January 18, 2017
"Met with General Flynn, who will assume the position of National Security Advisor, and other officials at a working breakfast in Washington D.C.," Çavuşoğlu tweeted.

The meeting marks a first direct reachout between the President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan administration and the incoming Donald Trump administration, other than a phone call between two leaders last November.

House Intelligence Committee Congressman Devin Nunes, a Republican heavyweight, also attended the breakfast.
posted by petebest at 2:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Whats the prescident on self pardoning?

It's never been tested but the answer is he probably could do so.

The remedy for a criminal president is impeachment.
posted by Justinian at 2:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ode to Joy, get out of my head

Now in it's revised version, "An die Schadenfreude"
posted by dis_integration at 2:48 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

This is like when you're watching a tense crime drama and the cops and the hard-assed DA start putting together their airtight RICO case against the local mob.

And then you hear Dum-DUM and the scene changes to Adam Schiff's office.
posted by adamg at 2:52 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

D'oh. Missed the best part of the article, the last sentence:
Turkish officials have previously stated that Turkey can cooperate with the new U.S. administration since many of Turkey's views overlap with the incoming president.

Now there's a lucky thing, eh "workin' like a jerky for Turkey" Flynn?
posted by petebest at 2:52 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I don't see how Nunes can still be in charge of the investigation. Surely his Republican peers must see how suspicious it looks. Do they think we are not paying attention to all of this?

In other news more FOX pundits are calling for Ryan to be replaced. If we are very good children and eat all of our vegetables maybe both Reince and Ryan will be out on their keesters.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

UNfortunately, if your average Trumplicant can't understand his administration will deport their husbands, this extra-rich, data-heavy story is going to need a really good puppet show to connect.
posted by petebest at 2:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [26 favorites]

NYC MeFites, there's fundraiser for Jon Ossof in the Georgia 5th special election on April 5th:

The event is at 7:30 Wednesday, April 5th, at Hi-Fi (169 Ave. A). And if taking a House seat away from the GOP wasn't enough...there will also be drink specials.

If you're interested in attending, just click here to sign up and make a contribution! Even if you can't make it, you can still donate here, and support Jon's campaign.

posted by schadenfrau at 2:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Now in it's revised version, "An die Schadenfreude"
I checked in Kinsky/Halm Beethoven Verzeichnis (the book was actually laying open on my desk, don't ask): Fake news.
posted by Namlit at 2:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon. I'd expect nothing less from Pence or whoever the Last Republican Standing is.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

No, it says they refused to shut up about how unfair everyone's been to them and they want to "talk to the committee". a.k.a. Bullshit.

I agree, petebest. I wanted to draw attention to Manafort, Page, and Stone all coincidentally offering to talk to Nunes' tainted committee while Flynn is conspicuous in his absence from that group, even though he's in just as much hot water. If Flynn's struck a deal with the FBI, the others are much less likely to be able to, leaving public bullshitting their best short-term option. Nunes hasn't even confirmed if Manafort would testify publicly or behind closed doors (and I would wager that none of them, least of all deer-in-the-headlights Page, want to do so under oath).

Also, Roger Stone just tweeted that he'll be on ABC's This Week tomorrow to discuss the bugging of Trump, the "Russian myth", and presumably whatever Stephanopoulos will let him get away with.

And the pro-Trump National Enquirer has now published a cover story "Trump Catches Russia's White House Spy" - i.e. Flynn - that's going to be seen by checkout counters across the country next week.

Expect a lot of disinformation in the times to come.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [20 favorites]

In other news more FOX pundits are calling for Ryan to be replaced.

Who the hell do they think can do any different, the entire party is full of even bigger idiots than Ryan, which is why he was the only one they could find last time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

NYC MeFites, there's fundraiser for Jon Ossof in the Georgia 5th special election on April 5th:

Also, early voting starts this Monday March 27th. Get it out of the way.
posted by chris24 at 3:00 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Fuck that shit. I'm female. If I have to suffer (and I do), then men have no reason to complain at all about wanting tailoring to be 'relaxed'.

Let's go full British banker and stuff ourselves into suits that we can barely button up. This will show that we are so prosperous we are exploding out of our suits.
posted by srboisvert at 3:02 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

And the pro-Trump National Enquirer has now published a cover story "Trump Catches Russia's White House Spy" - i.e. Flynn - that's going to be seen by checkout counters across the country next week.

See, now *that's* a good puppet show. Like that! But not evil. Okay, whatta we got?
posted by petebest at 3:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is wild. I've been busy in the real world for a wild, and just spent the last couple of hours reading this whole thread. It's really really wild.

Imagine someone who isn't on metafilter and isn't that interested in politics, whose FB feed is filled with friends pouting and cute cats tumbling, and then all of this breaks loose for real: healthcare, travelban, Kuschner's bailout, Korea missile launch, Russia conspiracy, continuous campaign... Actually, I can easily imagine that person (2/3 of my friends), but I can't imagine their reactions at all. It's too much of everything.

And then think of the poor school kids in 10-20 years time. I remember when we had to read about the whole Bay of Pigs thing, it was so confusing and hard to understand, more than half of my class just zoned out and hoped it wouldn't be on the exam.

Also, I know someone who is a salesperson in an expensive mens' shoe store. They say the most surprising and hilarious part of that job is that some people with small feet buy hugely oversized shoes. Clown shoes for real.
posted by mumimor at 3:04 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Flynn should really avoid any single engine aircraft and people carrying umbrellas in sunny weather for the foreseeable future.

And cars & upper story windows.

and radioactive tea.
posted by srboisvert at 3:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Rep. Speier says Nunes never even informed Schiff he was cancelling the open hearing next week. There are shouts of "traitor!"
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Remember: lots of people came out of the woodwork to vote for Trump and his hateful shit. Half the battle is to get them so discouraged that they remain in the woodwork for 2018. A steady stream of news that Trump is both ineffectual and crooked (like, Nixon Redux crooked) will help dampen spirits. The Other Half is putting young, intelligent, non-crazy-sounding Dems out there to challenge each and every red stronghold. Vinegar is hard, but the honey of 'Oh, this is actually a pleasant alternative' can work magic.
posted by eclectist at 3:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

I don't see how Nunes can still be in charge of the investigation. Surely his Republican peers must see how suspicious it looks. Do they think we are not paying attention to all of this?

Now that it's out that he was at the planning meeting for the Turkish Kidnapping Club, he has to step down. Has to. Yes?
posted by scalefree at 3:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Enquirer doing a cover story claiming that Flynn was the Russian spy is, to me, the strongest suggestion that Flynn may be offering damning testimony to the intelligence community.

Also, I just want to thank frowner and spitbull, among others, for being voices of encouragement and historical context over the last few threads. I think the media is downplaying the degree to which the bill was defeated by a combination of an emerging liberal grassroots movement and the general American populace tending to favor government intervention in practice (while liking small government rhetoric in principle).
posted by Slothrop at 3:08 PM on March 25, 2017 [33 favorites]

“This is where the monsters live,” she said. “That’s why we’re here.”
Those poor kids.

In 10 years those kids will move out and live with the monsters instead.
posted by srboisvert at 3:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

I agree that It will be difficult but maybe one of those Freedom Caucus members will take a crack at it.

I guess the way to neutralize Presidential pardons is to get some else in the WH-- someone who is not beholden to this crowd of hucksters and has a goddamn moral backbone with enough integrity and will to thoroughly clean house. The only person I can think of at the moment is Romney, possibly Egg, but neither of those guys are going to be offered the job.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon. I'd expect nothing less from Pence or whoever the Last Republican Standing is.

I don't see anyone falling on their sword for these clowns. Ford's pardon required a weird courage. These craven worms have shown in the last year that they have none.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

msnbc is doing a pretty deep dive into Manafort right now. Also talking Flynn/Carter Page/Roger Stone. It's almost like they are prepping their audience as to who all the players are before a larger story breaks.

Aaaaand they just said Flynn is in deep shit and that Flynn should start talking to the FBI.
posted by futz at 3:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon.

And lots of people didn't think he would, I mean, after all that anguish and craziness, the "long national nightmare" etc., how could he just pull the rug out from under justice like that?

But he did. Then Reagan's "October Surprise", Iran-Contra, Gulf War I, Ken Starr and The Gingrich Bunch, Gulf War II: The Lost Pretzel Adventure, and 8 years of party-over-country.

And we still voted R even when our husbands were gonna get kicked out.

C'mooooon lucky number . . two, three, four . . 18? Whatever! Fiat justitia ruat caelum!
posted by petebest at 3:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump pardons the entire Republican Party. They go on as if nothing happened.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

There are shouts of "traitor!"

MOAR LIKE THIS PLS
posted by schadenfrau at 3:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Wonder if they know about Alex Jones retraction?

Hayes called InfoWars “the only place you can get the news nowadays where it’s not opinion,” but said he wasn’t bothered by Jones’s about-face on Pizzagate.

“This paper in my hand is at least enough for an investigation,” the 25-year-old said, holding a flier labeled “Pizzagate/Pedogate” that listed “pedophile code words and symbols” supposedly found at Comet Ping Pong.

I tried searching online for the likely "Pizzagate/Pedogate paper" he was waving around, but it was way too much crazy to wade through.
posted by zakur at 3:16 PM on March 25, 2017

LOL, check this out. Bloomberg is doing a running tally for how much it is costing NYC to protect trump. The web page is TRIPPY as hell.
posted by futz at 3:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [61 favorites]

"Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan,"

In Social Psychology this is called "Basking In Reflected Glory" (BIRGing) and "Casting Off Reflected Failure" (CORFing). It's the reason why when your local sports team loses you say "They lost" and when they win you say "We won".
posted by srboisvert at 3:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

The web page is TRIPPY as hell.

Whoa. I am not stoned enough for that. BRB.
posted by chris24 at 3:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena.
posted by PenDevil at 3:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Did....did Bloomberg eat the brownies I was keeping in the freezer? Whoever's closest to Bloomberg should put it in front of an xbox before it starts getting The Fear.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:27 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Yeah, we need a constitutional attorney in here to explain how justice works in the executive branch. And the limits, if any, to presidential pardons.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:28 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

What limits are you wondering about? They can't pardon themselves.
posted by rhizome at 3:29 PM on March 25, 2017

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon.

I think it was for any crimes he may have committed as President........so, if Ford, say, found Nixon's John Wayne Gacy basement after moving in, there'd be no way to charge Nixon with murder?
posted by thelonius at 3:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena.

As mentioned elsewhere, ISTR HRC's Blackberry disposal practices receiving some criticism.
posted by rhizome at 3:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

That Bloomberg page? Someone has finally captured the essence of watching the Trump presidency from outside the US. Well done.
posted by N-stoff at 3:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena.

Have they been under a rock the last decade? If anyone wants to know what you've been saying they'll know what you've been saying.
posted by Talez at 3:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

What limits are you wondering about? They can't pardon themselves.

They most certainly can. Well, theoretically. It's never been tested. As to the text of the powers, " he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment", it seems pretty unlimited.The only limit to the pardon power is impeachment.
posted by dis_integration at 3:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

I seem to recall Pres. Clinton promising not to pardon himself for whatever crime was alleged in the Lewinsky scandal, but can't find any 90s web news to that effect.
posted by dis_integration at 3:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

The web page is TRIPPY as hell.


i - i - i -

we must all praise the orange one - the orange one is our glorious leader - we must all worship the republican messiah - he is our father - he is our leader - he is ...

whoa, what the fuck just happened to me?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:35 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

sotonohito! Metafilter needs you!

It is imperative that you clearly and distinctly assert that nothing will come of this Flynn business, and if you're wrong you'll pay the terrible price of, say, enjoying a nice plate of brisket.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [113 favorites]

MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena.

Have they been under a rock the last decade? If anyone wants to know what you've been saying they'll know what you've been saying.

And if they hadn't committed a crime before, they have now.
posted by chris24 at 3:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [41 favorites]

" he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, "

Taken at face value, "offenses against the United States" all but *explicitly* includes treason.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 3:37 PM on March 25, 2017

How does that work though? The FBI's job isn't to help a political campaign cover up wrong-doing. Exactly the opposite. And if that were the case, Flynn wouldn't need protection from prosecution to do that.

You may wish to remember what the FBI made into its job a couple of weeks before Election Day.

I'm very skeptical that anything comes of this; it's too damaging to the Republican Party, and they have more than enough power - and more than enough public polarization, apathy, and confusion -- to downplay, ignore, and obfuscate whatever they need to by simply refusing to pursue impeachment or further investigation.
posted by kewb at 3:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

But I am happy to have a lovely meal if I am wrong.
posted by kewb at 3:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

I imagine any case involving the President pardoning himself for conspiring with a foreign power to ensure his own election is the sort of white hot constitutional crisis that would go straight to the Supreme Court.

So about that stolen seat...
posted by schadenfrau at 3:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

if Ford, say, found Nixon's John Wayne Gacy basement after moving in, there'd be no way to charge Nixon with murder?

Occasionally, as a thought experiment, I think about whether particular serial killers would make a better president than the current one. Gacy makes the cut: actually a successful business owner, well-liked by his local non-victim community, active in charities and Democratic politics. Literally the only way Trump is a better person than Gacy is not being responsible for the 30-odd murders. Except, come to think of it, there were hundreds of civilians killed in that US airstrike in Iraq the other day, so...
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

if Ford, say, found Nixon's John Wayne Gacy basement after moving in, there'd be no way to charge Nixon with murder?

Suppose the FBI comes to the White House to arrest the President. Does the Secret Service let them? And what if he yells outloud: "I pardon myself!", what do they do? I don't think anyone knows the answer to these questions. Impeachment is the only clear way to pursue legal action against a sitting President.
posted by dis_integration at 3:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Regular or Blackwater Secret Service?
posted by Artw at 3:46 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Trump Administration Clears Trump’s Washington Hotel: An agency engages in legal gymnastics, producing a bizarre and ultimately dishonest rationale.
posted by homunculus at 3:48 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

I have zero confidence that any amount of evidence will bring Trump down because no amount of evidence stopped his rise.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:49 PM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

And what if he yells outloud: "I pardon myself!"

"I... DECLARE... BANKRUPTCY!"
posted by Servo5678 at 3:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

Impeachment is the only clear way to pursue legal action against a sitting President

Yeah but you know this fucker would pardon himself for "everything" and then immediately, smugly resign, thinking he outsmarted the lawyers and got the best deal
posted by schadenfrau at 3:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

If Trump is going down, nobody is going to voluntarily go down with him. If he pardons himself, which would be outrageous in its face, no one that isn't already tangled up in this mess is going to lift a finger to help/obfuscate/condone. It's going to be absolutely toxic to anyone's career. You'll see the entire Republican Party run like hell in the other direction and pretend to have suspected all along which is why they didn't pass his healthcare bill or some such nonsense.

Doesn't mean he'll get prosecuted, granted (if nothing else because NOBODY on the R side wants to dig any deeper than absolutely necessary), but the best he might hope for is a nice dacha in Russia or, given the current Turkish allegations, on the Bosphorus.
posted by lydhre at 3:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Impeachment seems to be a 100% political process. There is no way to appeal it to the courts. It's entirely up to the House to decide what "high crimes and misdemeanors" means, what counts as due process in an impeachment trial, and any other normally legal issues, and up to the Senate to decide if a standard for conviction was reached.
posted by thelonius at 3:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I imagine there are committees in both houses that keep tabs on impeachment procedures and precedents.
posted by vrakatar at 4:00 PM on March 25, 2017

I remain scandalized, btw, at the obscene hypocrisy of the Republicans. If a Democratic president (or ahem presidential candidate) had a brewing Russian scandal of even a minute fraction of the magnitude of the current one they'd be literally demanding guillotines in the public square.
posted by lydhre at 4:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [37 favorites]

"MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena."

Wouldn't the carrier still have the texts? I seem to remember Kwame Kirkpatrick having a little trouble along those lines.
posted by klarck at 4:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon. I think it was for any crimes he may have committed as President........so, if Ford, say, found Nixon's John Wayne Gacy basement after moving in, there'd be no way to charge Nixon with murder?

You can read Gerald Ford's pardon here.

"Now, Therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."

Note that it is not a blanket pardon. It covers only specific "offenses against the United States" and only for a specific period of time. Offenses against the United States are things like treason, bribery, perjury, criminal libel and other actions that could affect the orderly operation of government.
posted by JackFlash at 4:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

(2) The FBI flips witnesses, turning them into cooperating individuals, _only_ when they can help secure conviction of a bigger "target."

(3) Michael Flynn was the National Security Adviser for the President of the United States. The only _bigger_ target is Donald J. Trump.

I'm sorry but that's quite a leap. I'll be happy overjoyed to bake a cake though.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

They probably deleted their damn emails too. REMEMBER THE EMAILS
posted by localhuman at 4:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

I think that what will likely happen is that someone lower on the totem pole gets made an example of, and it doesn't ever get to trump himself. But, hey, I was sure that the AHCA would pass in some form w/ trump taking credit, and look what happened. I would love for my cynicism to be proven wrong.
posted by codacorolla at 4:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Just write "DJT Legal Defense Fund" in the memo.

Melania Trump is featured guest at Mar-a-Lago fundraiser after GOP drops $150,000 to rent ballroom

Seldom-seen First Lady Melania Trump was on hand Friday night at a GOP fundraiser held at the Trump-owned Mar-a-Lago resort after the Palm Beach County GOP paid $150,000 for the use of a ballroom.

Everybody earns.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Man, if I have learned one thing, your emails never go away especially if you are using Outlook at all. Then again you could be super smooth like Petraeus and using the gmail drafts folder to be communicating with your lover, but that didn't work out for him. Hell, I found Novell Groupwise mail spam that should have been incinerated over a decade ago.
posted by jadepearl at 4:13 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

The problem is EVERYBODY is getting involved in the cover up, so there isn't really a way for just one person to fall on their sword.
posted by Artw at 4:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm maybe going to stop at this comment with armchair lawyering but "offenses against the united states" includes all crimes. The state forbids it, so when we commit a crime, we are commiting an offense against the state, first and foremost, and the victim (if there is one) secondarily. The constitution uses that exact phrase ("offenses against the united states") and it is interpreted to include any crime, basically, with perhaps some limits, like maybe contempt of court.
posted by dis_integration at 4:15 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Then again you could be super smooth like Petraeus and using your drafts folder on gmail to be communicating

FWIW, he gurfed that idea from Al Qaeda.
posted by rhizome at 4:15 PM on March 25, 2017

Why is she a "featured guest?" Shouldn't she be there by like, default?
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm no lawyer, but if he pardons himself and resigns what is to stop congress from putting him on a witness stand. He can't self incriminate and would probably open the door to a few dozen criminal and civil trials involving all sorts of friends and family.
posted by cmfletcher at 4:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm maybe going to stop at this comment with armchair lawyering but "offenses against the united states" includes all crimes.

i think that would be all federal crimes - state crimes might still be prosecutable

well, it's not like donnie's bright enough to phrase it properly anyway
posted by pyramid termite at 4:20 PM on March 25, 2017

If we are very good children and eat all of our vegetables maybe both Reince and Ryan will be out on their keesters/

See I don't know about you but if the GOP is going to be in power, I want The Gang That Can't Shoot Straight staying just where they are.

The only thing worse than an incompetent and unpopular conservative leader is a competent and popular conservative leader.
posted by dry white toast at 4:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

i think that would be all federal crimes - state crimes might still be prosecutable

Yes. Federal pardons are only for federal crims. State crimes require the governor of that state to pardon them.
posted by Talez at 4:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ah well, I guess you gotta pay to get her out of the tower.

That photo of her on that article, yeesh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:22 PM on March 25, 2017

All The Presidents Men
posted by robbyrobs at 4:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Rhizome, good to know that Petraeus was paying homage to a rival's technique. But back on topic, every email gets saved even deleted and drafts. I am taking a look at my various email clients and man, I got mail everywhere and it is tedious deleting the same email because of syncing. If the Trump folks are deleting I would be surprised someone halfway decent with forensics could not get their crap easily. Also, how technically sophisticated can these folks be if they are doing shenanigans on their personal phones or even better govt. issued phones?
posted by jadepearl at 4:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

they'd be literally demanding guillotines in the public square.

Too French.

"Liberty Loppers"?
posted by howfar at 4:25 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

One thing Trumpistas all have in common is their desire for self-aggrandizement and looking after only themselves. No one is going to throw themselves on the grenade to save the others. When faced with a choice, every last one of them will turn on each other to save themselves. Excuse me, my microwave popcorn just beeped.
posted by dry white toast at 4:27 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

That photo of her on that article, yeesh.

now coming to a theatre near you - melania trump in stephen king's carrie ...
posted by pyramid termite at 4:29 PM on March 25, 2017

with Palm Beach County GOP Chairman Michael Barnett saying it cost around $150,000 to rent Trump’s ballroom.

oh ffs.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:35 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

So any more news on Flynn and the FBI? I've downed like 4 cups of coffee and I'm dying to know what the end of this story looks like.
posted by gucci mane at 4:35 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

sotonohito! Metafilter needs you!

It is imperative that you clearly and distinctly assert that nothing will come of this Flynn business, and if you're wrong you'll pay the terrible price of, say, enjoying a nice plate of brisket.

I'm so jealous of the metafilter politics thread celebrities.

I wish I could do something to get on the radar but all I ever manage to do is to proofread poorly and misuse apostrophe's.
posted by srboisvert at 4:37 PM on March 25, 2017 [66 favorites]

I'm no lawyer, but if he pardons himself and resigns what is to stop congress from putting him on a witness stand. He can't self incriminate and would probably open the door to a few dozen criminal and civil trials involving all sorts of friends and family.

Very rich old white men when facing trials or even the just need to testify tend to spontaneously develop 'serious' medical conditions that generate tremendous sympathy for them from the judicial system.
posted by srboisvert at 4:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

I wish I could do something to get on the radar but all I ever manage to do is to proofread poorly and misuse apostrophe's.

We see you, srboisvert. We see you.
posted by dis_integration at 4:42 PM on March 25, 2017 [29 favorites]

So any more news on Flynn and the FBI? I've downed like 4 cups of coffee and I'm dying to know what the end of this story looks like.

Sorry, you're going to have to wait until the next episode of The President to see what happens. And even worse they might delay it for a bit and just air reruns like they did with the travel ban subplot.
posted by milarepa at 4:42 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Donald's overwhelming and well-documented narcissism may preclude him from the "sick old man' defense, or at least make it more difficult for him to do it right.

And srboisvert, I am quite aware of your contributions, and your background as a grocer. (local store, or big chain like Kroger? no, can't be Kroger, they own Ralphs which did the opposite thing with apostrophes)
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I remain scandalized, btw, at the obscene hypocrisy of the Republicans.

Stop being scandalized and start organizing to give Democrats a majority.

Look, the American government is very explicitly designed around the idea that you can't expect people in power to just do the right thing. The idea that people seek to preserve their own power is baked in. If you want to curtail the power of one branch of government, you need the power of another.

Do you think the ACA repeal failed because Republicans suddenly grew a conscience? It failed because angry voters threatened their access to power.

Republicans will never impeach Trump unless it's in their political interest to do so. So stop being shocked, and give them a reason to do so.
posted by dry white toast at 4:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

It's entirely possible to be both shocked and active.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [48 favorites]

If you're not both shocked and active, you're not paying attention.
posted by box at 5:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

It turns out that the Trump team version of back-channel encrypted communication​ is apparently a face to face meeting people openly refer to on Twitter. My inner cyberpunk is unimpressed.
posted by jaduncan at 5:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's entirely possible to be both shocked and active.
...better than radioactive...

Republicans will never impeach Trump unless it's in their political interest to do so. So stop being shocked, and give them a reason to do so.
I've told the story here multiple times of how I witnessed the Republican Party of California committing voter fraud in 1972. I've long said that "The Democrats are a corrupt political party; the Republicans are a criminal syndicate."
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Stop being scandalized and start organizing to give Democrats a majority.

What, you think I just sit here and get the vapors? I'm angry as fuck.
posted by lydhre at 5:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [26 favorites]

The thing that I read (TTTIR) said the tell on Flynn flipping was him registering as a lobbyist in arrears.
posted by rhizome at 5:07 PM on March 25, 2017

Speaking which, if Flynn has flipped, drinks are on me. I'll just go get some ice.

If Flynn testifies against the Trump Cabal, I'm opening a bottle of Champagne with a goddamn saber.
posted by dis_integration at 5:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [37 favorites]

I'll just go get some ice.

Whatever you do, don't rely on anyone named Ramon to get it for you.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 5:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

The thing that I read (TTTIR) said the tell on Flynn flipping was him registering as a lobbyist in arrears.

That being part of the deal to avoid prosecution? A fig leaf of sorts?
posted by leotrotsky at 5:11 PM on March 25, 2017

Whilest all this is wonderfully exciting, I would like to remind you about your next president.
He's trampled on the rights of women, LGBTQ folks and the poor. Then there's the incompetence. Meet, quite possibly, the next president; Mike Pence.
posted by adamvasco at 5:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Pence is a Manafort pick. I wouldn't assume in any way that he would come out unscathed, and actually suspect he very much wouldn't.
posted by jaduncan at 5:13 PM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Pence is in this to his eyeballs. If Trump goes down he goes down too.

Of course if this happened pre-2018 that means President Ryan. That would be an improvement since he is an idiot Randite rather than a crazy manchild, a Russian stooge, or a Republic of Gilead fanatic. And the last week shows him to be completely incapable of moving legislation so that's good. I'm not saying this would be a good thing only that we'd be in normal amounts of shit rather than the unprecedented amounts we are in now.

Post-2018 maybe it would mean President Pelosi. MY BODY IS READY.
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [49 favorites]

With Pence gone, fellow Republicans undo his work in Indiana
posted by robbyrobs at 5:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

I really hope, once upon a time long ago, Paul Ryan held a monkey's paw and said, "I want to be president in the worst way..."
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [60 favorites]

Surely an enterprising District Attorney in California, say, could figure out something to charge in extremis.

They'd have to fight New York for it, and they would lose.

God, the poetry of New York getting to finish him. We birthed him, after all. It's our responsibility.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

Oh, and let's not forget that the current line is that Pence wasn't lying when he denied knowledge of Flynn's Russian contacts because Flynn lied to Pence. I would suggest that Flynn as the FBI's witness would have some potential impact on the viability of that claim.
posted by jaduncan at 5:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

They'd have to fight New York for it, and they would lose.

I would be okay with the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York getting the ball rolling. It's sort of their wheelhouse.
posted by Justinian at