The Car You Never Expected (to disappear)
May 16, 2024 2:35 PM Subscribe
Last week, General Motors announced that it would end production of the Chevrolet Malibu, which the company first introduced in 1964. Although not exactly a head turner (the Malibu was “so uncool, it was cool,” declared the New York Times), the sedan has become an American fixture, even an icon [...] Over the past 60 years, GM produced some 10 million of them. With a price starting at a (relatively) affordable $25,100, Malibu sales exceeded 130,000 vehicles last year, a 13% annual increase and enough to rank as the #3 Chevy model [...] Still, that wasn’t enough to keep the car off GM’s chopping block. [...] In that regard, it will have plenty of company. Ford stopped producing sedans for the U.S. market in 2018. And it was Sergio Marchionne, the former head of Stellantis, who triggered the headlong retreat in 2016 when he declared that Dodge and Chrysler would stop making sedans. [...] As recently as 2009, U.S. passenger cars [...] outsold light trucks (SUVs, pickups, and minivans), but today they’re less then 20% of new car purchases. The death of the Malibu is confirmation, if anyone still needs it, that the Big Three are done building sedans. That decision is bad news for road users, the environment, and budget-conscious consumers—and it may ultimately come around to bite Detroit.Detroit Killed the Sedan. We May All Live to Regret It [Fast Company]
Guess I'll keep voting with my dollars for options I don't get to have!
Oh wait...
Markets are perfect indeed.
posted by jellywerker at 2:46 PM on May 16 [33 favorites]
Oh wait...
Markets are perfect indeed.
posted by jellywerker at 2:46 PM on May 16 [33 favorites]
Going the way of the American station wagon, apparently.
posted by sagc at 2:48 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
posted by sagc at 2:48 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
Visiting my aunt in Montana, and we went to a lake to do some lake things. My dad drove one car, my aunt handed me her keys and said "here, you and your brother take my car." Dark blue Malibu, think it was a '69? Some prior owner had put in 5 point harnesses and had juiced the engine a bit. Jesus H. Christ could that car go. At one point I looked down at the speedometer and realized I was doing 90+ MPH. Car was purring like a kitten. Handled like it was glued to the pavement, even when it was flying. 16 years old with the paint not yet dry on my driver's license, that was a fun car to drive.
She said she would have sold it to me, if I could have gotten it home to Michigan. Honestly, I am probably lucky I didn't have a way to do it. I was too young to drive a car with that much muscle. So I went back to my beat-up boxy but beloved road service orange Ford van (a 73 Custom Club Wagon, complete with shag carpet). I didn't have a sweet ass classic Malibu but I also survived my youth without any speeding tickets. I call that a win.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:48 PM on May 16 [46 favorites]
She said she would have sold it to me, if I could have gotten it home to Michigan. Honestly, I am probably lucky I didn't have a way to do it. I was too young to drive a car with that much muscle. So I went back to my beat-up boxy but beloved road service orange Ford van (a 73 Custom Club Wagon, complete with shag carpet). I didn't have a sweet ass classic Malibu but I also survived my youth without any speeding tickets. I call that a win.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:48 PM on May 16 [46 favorites]
That look on the rental counter representative's face when I say “no thanks” to a free “upgrade” from a Malibu/Focus/Corolla sedan to *insert shitty boxy high sided SUV of choice here*.
Subaru announced no more Legacy Sedan as of end of 2025 as well. Which makes me sad (though my current Crosstrek is doing well I always wanted a higher end Legacy)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:54 PM on May 16 [10 favorites]
Subaru announced no more Legacy Sedan as of end of 2025 as well. Which makes me sad (though my current Crosstrek is doing well I always wanted a higher end Legacy)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:54 PM on May 16 [10 favorites]
Repo Man - especially this scene- introduced me to the Chevy Malibu.
posted by rongorongo at 2:57 PM on May 16 [16 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 2:57 PM on May 16 [16 favorites]
Going the way of the American station wagon, apparently.
These are now called "crossovers" which are designed to look sportier; I'm pretty much guessing sedans are also being replaced by crossovers, which are mostly a sedan with a hatchback that sits a bit taller on the road.
I used to drive a early 2000s F250 pickup, and the things called "pickups" today look like they'd dwarf it. Also today pickups have huge cabs and tiny boxes, I don't understand why someone would buy one other for the privilege of getting 8 miles to the gallon.
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:59 PM on May 16 [12 favorites]
These are now called "crossovers" which are designed to look sportier; I'm pretty much guessing sedans are also being replaced by crossovers, which are mostly a sedan with a hatchback that sits a bit taller on the road.
I used to drive a early 2000s F250 pickup, and the things called "pickups" today look like they'd dwarf it. Also today pickups have huge cabs and tiny boxes, I don't understand why someone would buy one other for the privilege of getting 8 miles to the gallon.
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:59 PM on May 16 [12 favorites]
When I was a teen we had a 1980 Chevy Malibu station wagon. It looked like this.
That thing smoldered so much and burned so much oil we called it the Exxon Valdez.
I never cease to wonder at how much safer and better cars have gotten in the last 44 years.
posted by poe at 3:03 PM on May 16 [6 favorites]
That thing smoldered so much and burned so much oil we called it the Exxon Valdez.
I never cease to wonder at how much safer and better cars have gotten in the last 44 years.
posted by poe at 3:03 PM on May 16 [6 favorites]
In my teenage years in the Eighties, we had a Ford Courier pickup truck. Honestly it was the most useful thing ever. It was tiny, it got great gas milage, it could hold three people and had a full pickup bed... If they built something like that again, I might buy one! Make it electric with all that torque!
posted by hippybear at 3:03 PM on May 16 [9 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 3:03 PM on May 16 [9 favorites]
As a driver of a Hyundai Accent, I have to say the size of most vehicles on the road is pretty terrifying.
Amen. We have an Accent and a Honda Insight. Both look so tiny in parking lots surrounded by the behemoths that it seems impossible that they were in fact perfectly normally sized cars 15 years ago when they were new.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:04 PM on May 16 [16 favorites]
Amen. We have an Accent and a Honda Insight. Both look so tiny in parking lots surrounded by the behemoths that it seems impossible that they were in fact perfectly normally sized cars 15 years ago when they were new.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:04 PM on May 16 [16 favorites]
Hm, the article I saw on this said GM was transitioning the plant that built Malibus over to making EVs.
posted by LionIndex at 3:04 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
posted by LionIndex at 3:04 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
Yes. The FP article says that. The new EV will be an SUV, though, not a car.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:07 PM on May 16
posted by hydropsyche at 3:07 PM on May 16
Subaru announced no more Legacy Sedan as of end of 2025 as well. Which makes me sad (though my current Crosstrek is doing well I always wanted a higher end Legacy)
Subaru is probably discontinuing them because fewer people want them, year over year.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:08 PM on May 16
Subaru is probably discontinuing them because fewer people want them, year over year.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:08 PM on May 16
I'm completely happy with my Mazda 3. Just enough tech to be useful without killing the price, and the ride is fine.
I kind of wish Mazda wasn't aspiring to be a near-luxury brand these days but when you have Kia/Hyundai soaking the economy market up and the Chinese are coming up quickly, I get it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 3:14 PM on May 16 [11 favorites]
I kind of wish Mazda wasn't aspiring to be a near-luxury brand these days but when you have Kia/Hyundai soaking the economy market up and the Chinese are coming up quickly, I get it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 3:14 PM on May 16 [11 favorites]
Generally good article, but it left me with questions. It's been my impression that for last ~20 years or so that a significant number of the Malibus sold were fleet sales to rental car companies and the like.
Broken Google isn't very helpful for confirming this.
posted by Anoplura at 3:14 PM on May 16
Broken Google isn't very helpful for confirming this.
posted by Anoplura at 3:14 PM on May 16
When I was shopping for a car a few years ago the Malibu was the same price as a Civic but worse in almost every way.
Tiny trucks are de facto illegal now, the footprint model means that car manufactures would only be able to sell a tiny number of them, or would have to make them so fuel efficient they couldn't tow anything. The major car manufacturers warned about what would happen when the regulations were changed.
Unfortunately the new 100% tariffs on Chinese EV's mean that it's going to be a while before we get a small cheap car again.
posted by hermanubis at 3:14 PM on May 16 [13 favorites]
Tiny trucks are de facto illegal now, the footprint model means that car manufactures would only be able to sell a tiny number of them, or would have to make them so fuel efficient they couldn't tow anything. The major car manufacturers warned about what would happen when the regulations were changed.
Unfortunately the new 100% tariffs on Chinese EV's mean that it's going to be a while before we get a small cheap car again.
posted by hermanubis at 3:14 PM on May 16 [13 favorites]
When renting a car, especially if I'll be in a city, I always try to get a sedan because the SUV/crossover/stationwagons that the rental car agencies mostly have now never come with one of those retractable luggage covers. With a sedan, the trunk is closed and no one can see anything in there. Makes it tough to park in a city if I can't hide my bags or the photo equipment I often travel with.
posted by msbrauer at 3:18 PM on May 16 [18 favorites]
posted by msbrauer at 3:18 PM on May 16 [18 favorites]
If it's only foreign car companies going to be making sedans anymore... I assume the Civic is going to survive? And I don't think the Hyundai line of sedans is going anywhere. Volkswagen? No clue. Who else is making sedans? Suzuki folded a while ago...
oh, Audi? Mercedes but that's a luxury brand... anyway. We need to make small cars again. They're better for everyone as long as we have to have cars.
posted by hippybear at 3:19 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
oh, Audi? Mercedes but that's a luxury brand... anyway. We need to make small cars again. They're better for everyone as long as we have to have cars.
posted by hippybear at 3:19 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
I can't tell the difference between the newer autos on the road anymore. They all look the same to me. And what happened to color?..It's all black, white, greyish, or maybe a few greenish ones.
posted by Czjewel at 3:19 PM on May 16 [12 favorites]
posted by Czjewel at 3:19 PM on May 16 [12 favorites]
My mother’s light blue 1978 Malibu Classic station wagon replaced the Volkswagen squareback that she was driving when she was t-boned by a mid-day drunk uninsured pickup truck driver. It offered a deluxe upholstered seat for the young passenger to do all the neck turning required for years of merging and lane-changing.
The car lasted nineteen years. The paint job, about five.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:21 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
The car lasted nineteen years. The paint job, about five.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:21 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
And that horrible burnt orange that was around for a while. WTF?
posted by hippybear at 3:21 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 3:21 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]
And what happened to color?..It's all black, white, greyish, or maybe a few greenish ones.
Here in Japan, they say it’s for resale value, since the big market for used vehicles here is for company cars and rental fleets.
Which is honestly baffling because resale value is dogshit here anyway. Get some color back on the roads, people! It’s worth a few yen for several years of being happy stuck in traffic in your pink Pri (mind the stickybombs).
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:29 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
Here in Japan, they say it’s for resale value, since the big market for used vehicles here is for company cars and rental fleets.
Which is honestly baffling because resale value is dogshit here anyway. Get some color back on the roads, people! It’s worth a few yen for several years of being happy stuck in traffic in your pink Pri (mind the stickybombs).
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:29 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
Who else is making sedans?
Nissan makes the Sentra, Altima, and Maxima. and Toyota makes the Camry, Corolla, Crown and Mirai. The Prius remodel in ’23 definitely pushed it from hatchback to sedan (or close enough as far as my fragile ego is concerned) and I’m planning to get a Prius Prime this summer.
posted by Ryvar at 3:35 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
Nissan makes the Sentra, Altima, and Maxima. and Toyota makes the Camry, Corolla, Crown and Mirai. The Prius remodel in ’23 definitely pushed it from hatchback to sedan (or close enough as far as my fragile ego is concerned) and I’m planning to get a Prius Prime this summer.
posted by Ryvar at 3:35 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
Is Mazda still doing the 3, 6 and the other one? I remember when they were the 323 and then 626.
posted by hippybear at 3:36 PM on May 16
posted by hippybear at 3:36 PM on May 16
President says F china
And why so many big cars? hella good perks and protectionism.
posted by Jacen at 3:40 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
And why so many big cars? hella good perks and protectionism.
posted by Jacen at 3:40 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
Biden's moves are strictly protectionist, as China was about to dump cheap cars onto the US market, cheaper than our own industry could produce them for. Doubling their price means that US made product will be able to find a market that could have become dominated by China before it even had a chance to get truly started.
posted by hippybear at 3:43 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 3:43 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
I own, because I am an idiot who likes old cars, a 1999 Land Rover Defender. It was then and remains a very large car; it’s designed for 4WD and we take it camping as often as we can. You could easily live out of it for weeks.
I had occasion to drive a ‘new’ four seater cross-over SUV and had a moment of shock when I realised that this new Ordinary Car was longer, wider, and nearly 2x as heavy in GVM as a truck from the 90s.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:47 PM on May 16 [7 favorites]
I had occasion to drive a ‘new’ four seater cross-over SUV and had a moment of shock when I realised that this new Ordinary Car was longer, wider, and nearly 2x as heavy in GVM as a truck from the 90s.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:47 PM on May 16 [7 favorites]
Is Mazda still doing the 3, 6 and the other one?
The 3 is around, the 6 is currently gone, and then there is a spray of crossovers and SUVs. And the Miata (cough, sorry, MX-5) is still kicking.
posted by JoeZydeco at 3:47 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
The 3 is around, the 6 is currently gone, and then there is a spray of crossovers and SUVs. And the Miata (cough, sorry, MX-5) is still kicking.
posted by JoeZydeco at 3:47 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
I drive a Prius C, which despite everything, has more actual cargo space than some "compact SUVs."
The parking garage at work is difficult to navigate because of all the oversized trucks and SUVs that don't fit in spaces. And it seems like at night, 1 in 4 vehicles behind me are shining their headlights directly into my rear view mirror.
posted by Foosnark at 3:51 PM on May 16 [11 favorites]
The parking garage at work is difficult to navigate because of all the oversized trucks and SUVs that don't fit in spaces. And it seems like at night, 1 in 4 vehicles behind me are shining their headlights directly into my rear view mirror.
posted by Foosnark at 3:51 PM on May 16 [11 favorites]
Volkswagen? No clue. Who else is making sedans?
All the sedans you can still buy in Merka
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:52 PM on May 16 [9 favorites]
All the sedans you can still buy in Merka
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:52 PM on May 16 [9 favorites]
American cars peaked with the 1989 Buick Skylark.
posted by Captaintripps at 3:54 PM on May 16 [7 favorites]
posted by Captaintripps at 3:54 PM on May 16 [7 favorites]
I think I'm holding out to get a Hyundai Ioniq 5. I can put a trailer hitch on the Ioniq, it works with an iPhone, and it isn't sized like an SUV. Hopefully they switch the power connector over from CCS to dedicated NACS so that I have more options for recharging it. A Kia EV6 may work, as well, but that seems more like a "fun" car than a daily driver.
Volvo lost me when they went over to full Google integration. GM/Chevy Bolt for the same reason. My aged Subaru Outback is holding out for now, but their electric option is a rebranded Toyota behemoth and I see nothing but complaints about the in-dash touchscreen across all the non-WRX/BRZ options, including the Solterra.
Just give me a practical and reasonably-sized non-SUV! I'll end up paying a premium for it, regardless, like any car these days. No reason not to make one.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:02 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
Volvo lost me when they went over to full Google integration. GM/Chevy Bolt for the same reason. My aged Subaru Outback is holding out for now, but their electric option is a rebranded Toyota behemoth and I see nothing but complaints about the in-dash touchscreen across all the non-WRX/BRZ options, including the Solterra.
Just give me a practical and reasonably-sized non-SUV! I'll end up paying a premium for it, regardless, like any car these days. No reason not to make one.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:02 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
Not sure you've read the room properly with that suggestion, but I'm curious to see how it goes.
posted by hippybear at 4:07 PM on May 16 [10 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:07 PM on May 16 [10 favorites]
I have a Tesla Model V. It was a Model Y, but the stem fell off.
posted by AlSweigart at 4:19 PM on May 16 [23 favorites]
posted by AlSweigart at 4:19 PM on May 16 [23 favorites]
I think Tesla is permanently off my list, until some major changes are made in ownership and management. People can have their own opinions about the guy, but I have no interest in making a rich Nazi richer.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:20 PM on May 16 [35 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:20 PM on May 16 [35 favorites]
Volvo lost me when they went over to full Google integration. GM/Chevy Bolt for the same reason.
My wife's XC40 Recharge uses Google AAOS, which is not the same as what GM is planning to do with their IVI. The Volvo IVI is not that bad, and it works just fine with CarPlay (although not wirelessly, which spoils you once you've used it)
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:26 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]
My wife's XC40 Recharge uses Google AAOS, which is not the same as what GM is planning to do with their IVI. The Volvo IVI is not that bad, and it works just fine with CarPlay (although not wirelessly, which spoils you once you've used it)
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:26 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]
Made of cardboard was it?
The Trabant was made of cotton wool soaked with linseed oil, I believe.
Was never sold in the US, however.
posted by hippybear at 4:29 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
The Trabant was made of cotton wool soaked with linseed oil, I believe.
Was never sold in the US, however.
posted by hippybear at 4:29 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
I don't know if he plans on doing this every year, but I am genuinely interested in hearing what Roman from Regular Car Reviews will have to say about this in a potential future In Memoriam video (ala the 2023 video).
posted by neuracnu at 4:30 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
posted by neuracnu at 4:30 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
I test drove a 1997 Malibu and it was like a Trabant with a lawnmower engine. Even the salesperson was apologetic in his tone. I came to my senses and got a sedan from Japan.
Now I'm rocking a 3-banger hatchback that gets 35 mpg, and I'll never go back to sedans because I occasionally have to do things like clean out a 10 x 10 storage unit, and I don't need no steenking pickup truck to do it.
I could be convinced to get that VW electric minibus, though.
posted by credulous at 4:48 PM on May 16 [8 favorites]
Now I'm rocking a 3-banger hatchback that gets 35 mpg, and I'll never go back to sedans because I occasionally have to do things like clean out a 10 x 10 storage unit, and I don't need no steenking pickup truck to do it.
I could be convinced to get that VW electric minibus, though.
posted by credulous at 4:48 PM on May 16 [8 favorites]
I hardly ever rent cars, but the only option you get is an SUV now. Glad the last one I had for a week (Kia Seltos) was easy to drive, at least.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:51 PM on May 16
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:51 PM on May 16
I had a metallic burnt orange Honda Civic 1200. Leaded gas, even. It was probably as basic a car could be and still be a car, it was tiny, and it was perfectly acceptable to me at 6'4 and 300lbs at the time. I drove it up and down the east coast of the US multiple times. Honestly 95% of all car trips could be done in a vehicle like that. Except make it an EV. It was a great car. Eventually junked it because we had access to cars that didn't poison us.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:52 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:52 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
Now I'm rocking a 3-banger hatchback that gets 35 mpgA Chevy Sprint? My family had 3 of those and grandma had another! The four of us moved across Canada with our personal belongings in one of them. I used to take it off-roading. Good times.
posted by klanawa at 4:58 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]
Wish I could get a silence nanocar here in the USA instead of the ridiculously oversized vehicles we are offered now. I hate CAFE standards. I wish we'd just front load the taxes required for pollution and infrastructure damage at the point of sale with some kind of formula proportional to the square of the curb weight divided by miles per gallon (or EV equivalent) with the assumption of 150,000 miles driven over the life of the vehicle. Just give people a fiscal incentive to make smart choices and take out the ridiculous loopholes for "work vehicles".
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:03 PM on May 16 [15 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:03 PM on May 16 [15 favorites]
Ford only just last week announced it intends to resume making sedans and small cars, partly because it's taking a beating to the tune of an average of a hundred grand per EV it delivers.
I doubt they're just going to dust of the schematics for the Flex and the Focus and start plugging EV or hybrid drivetrains in those, since that's easier said than done, and they probably destroyed/sold the tooling, but damn that's a lot of money to bleeding out.
posted by MarchHare at 5:04 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
I doubt they're just going to dust of the schematics for the Flex and the Focus and start plugging EV or hybrid drivetrains in those, since that's easier said than done, and they probably destroyed/sold the tooling, but damn that's a lot of money to bleeding out.
posted by MarchHare at 5:04 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
it works just fine with CarPlay (although not wirelessly...
I suspect Volvo and GM are being incentivized to push Android, which I'm just not interested in, even if that's fine for others.
I also suspect that, in addition to Google paying for effective functional exclusivity of this kind — where they make it difficult or impossible to use CarPlay, or to use it without these kinds of crippling compromises(*) — there are data sharing arrangements that appeal to Volvo and GM corporate, so that they can basically track where you go without real, genuine consent.
* : I don't have CarPlay in my old Subie but at least it will let me connect audio via Bluetooth, without nonsense. If you're being forced to pay $35-45k+ for a car, it should work with your phone, whatever you use.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:12 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
I suspect Volvo and GM are being incentivized to push Android, which I'm just not interested in, even if that's fine for others.
I also suspect that, in addition to Google paying for effective functional exclusivity of this kind — where they make it difficult or impossible to use CarPlay, or to use it without these kinds of crippling compromises(*) — there are data sharing arrangements that appeal to Volvo and GM corporate, so that they can basically track where you go without real, genuine consent.
* : I don't have CarPlay in my old Subie but at least it will let me connect audio via Bluetooth, without nonsense. If you're being forced to pay $35-45k+ for a car, it should work with your phone, whatever you use.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:12 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
Ford only just last week announced it intends to resume making sedans and small cars, partly because it's taking a beating to the tune of an average of a hundred grand per EV it delivers.
I doubt they're just going to dust of the schematics for the Flex and the Focus and start plugging EV or hybrid drivetrains in those, since that's easier said than done, and they probably destroyed/sold the tooling, but damn that's a lot of money to bleeding out.
that gives me hope for a good replacement for my beloved C-max. It's infuriating because there IS and HAS BEEN demand for compact cars, and they were actually designed well!
posted by ApathyGirl at 5:16 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
I doubt they're just going to dust of the schematics for the Flex and the Focus and start plugging EV or hybrid drivetrains in those, since that's easier said than done, and they probably destroyed/sold the tooling, but damn that's a lot of money to bleeding out.
that gives me hope for a good replacement for my beloved C-max. It's infuriating because there IS and HAS BEEN demand for compact cars, and they were actually designed well!
posted by ApathyGirl at 5:16 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
The Trabant was made of cotton wool soaked with linseed oil, I believe.
Ja! Duroplast was a form of carbon fibre, made mostly from recycled cotton waste and phenol resins that were themselves waste products from other chemical processes. This resulted in a sophisticated composite material, light and strong, able to be formed into various shapes using a press. Though disposal was no easier than with many other composites, Duroplast was - in its own way - a far superior alternative to the fibreglasses and carbon-fiber reinforced polymers used in the sportscars of the decadent western bourgeoisie.
posted by MarchHare at 5:21 PM on May 16 [21 favorites]
Ja! Duroplast was a form of carbon fibre, made mostly from recycled cotton waste and phenol resins that were themselves waste products from other chemical processes. This resulted in a sophisticated composite material, light and strong, able to be formed into various shapes using a press. Though disposal was no easier than with many other composites, Duroplast was - in its own way - a far superior alternative to the fibreglasses and carbon-fiber reinforced polymers used in the sportscars of the decadent western bourgeoisie.
posted by MarchHare at 5:21 PM on May 16 [21 favorites]
I don't understand the need to have a passenger vehicle that seats at least five also be a large hauling vehicle with a full length truck bed. People don't know how to park them, and they're very much a specialty vehicle. If you're driving one of these to WalMart by yourself to pick up a few things you need for dinner... you're doing it wrong.
My favourite part is always them whining about gas prices when they have chosen to drive these behemoths. Like, duh? How thick are you?
posted by Kitteh at 5:38 PM on May 16 [22 favorites]
My favourite part is always them whining about gas prices when they have chosen to drive these behemoths. Like, duh? How thick are you?
posted by Kitteh at 5:38 PM on May 16 [22 favorites]
inflatablekiwi oh my goodness this is too relatable. I almost always turn down these upgrades, but especially if I'm driving in any large town or city. Why would I want a huge stupid SUV? Ever? Except that one time when they gave us a shock-orange Wrangler, that was too good to resist.
That said, I *need* a smaller car because I have a very narrow driveway that I can't do anything about - there's 79" of clearance house-to-house. My Mini barely squeaks by with both mirrors folded in, and now that I actually need to carry around 2 adults and three kids, there is literally nothing that will fit down my driveway that's been sold in the USA in the last 15 years except for the Nissan NV200, which you can't get in full passenger trim except as a heavily used yellow cab, which thanks but no thanks.
I'm so desperate for a small van that I've been looking at JDM minivans, which seem to seat seven AND can fit basically anywhere.
posted by 1adam12 at 5:40 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
That said, I *need* a smaller car because I have a very narrow driveway that I can't do anything about - there's 79" of clearance house-to-house. My Mini barely squeaks by with both mirrors folded in, and now that I actually need to carry around 2 adults and three kids, there is literally nothing that will fit down my driveway that's been sold in the USA in the last 15 years except for the Nissan NV200, which you can't get in full passenger trim except as a heavily used yellow cab, which thanks but no thanks.
I'm so desperate for a small van that I've been looking at JDM minivans, which seem to seat seven AND can fit basically anywhere.
posted by 1adam12 at 5:40 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
Meh. I grew up in a GM family, relatives on both sides employed by GM, lifers the lot. And were the worst cars I ever had experienced. I remember when my folks bought an orange Vega wagon. Like all the reliability of a Cybertruck without the price tag. The only exception to my bad GM experiences was the '86 Chevy Sprint, my first car, a rebadged Suzuki, that always just ran.
I generally prefer a hatchback, but I'm driving a Corolla hybrid sedan now. It's a fine car. With the large, high trunk and fold down back seats, it comes pretty close to hatchback carrying capacity.
I'm hoping Aptera pulls off its debut. That would be almost the ideal EV for me, carries me and my wife, and around here, basically would never have to plug it in.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:47 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
I generally prefer a hatchback, but I'm driving a Corolla hybrid sedan now. It's a fine car. With the large, high trunk and fold down back seats, it comes pretty close to hatchback carrying capacity.
I'm hoping Aptera pulls off its debut. That would be almost the ideal EV for me, carries me and my wife, and around here, basically would never have to plug it in.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:47 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
I think I'm holding out to get a Hyundai Ioniq 5. I can put a trailer hitch on the Ioniq, it works with an iPhone, and it isn't sized like an SUV.Standards sure have changed. Compared to the 1984 Jeep Cherokee XJ (the first “modern” SUV), the Ioniq 5 is significantly longer, wider, and heavier (and about the same height). The Ioniq 5 is basically the same length, width, and weight (but not as tall) as a 1994 Ford Explorer.
posted by mbrubeck at 5:55 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]
Best car I ever owned was a ‘66 Chevelle Malibu. I kinda don’t think the more recent models would have been quite the same.
It looks like I’ll be driving my 2002 Celica until the wheels fall off, which I hope is another 100,000 miles down the road, though parts are getting difficult to find for my mechanic. If I were to get something that existed now, I’d probably get into as old of a Subaru Crosstrek as I could find.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:03 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
It looks like I’ll be driving my 2002 Celica until the wheels fall off, which I hope is another 100,000 miles down the road, though parts are getting difficult to find for my mechanic. If I were to get something that existed now, I’d probably get into as old of a Subaru Crosstrek as I could find.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:03 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
I received an early 1960's VW Beetle as a high school graduation present. I spent the next 20 years driving Beetles, Super Beetles and commercial VW vans. They are my yardstick for reliability, affordability and durability. The closest I've come since is my current 10 year old Kia Rio. Our Subaru sedan was good too until it got T-boned...
posted by jim in austin at 6:11 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 6:11 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]
Also today pickups have huge cabs and tiny boxes, I don't understand why someone would buy one other for the privilege of getting 8 miles to the gallon.
I feel like if you didn't need to get a CDL to drive a straight-up semi with a sleeper cab, driving that as a daily driver would become a thing.
posted by ctmf at 6:36 PM on May 16 [7 favorites]
I feel like if you didn't need to get a CDL to drive a straight-up semi with a sleeper cab, driving that as a daily driver would become a thing.
posted by ctmf at 6:36 PM on May 16 [7 favorites]
Right now I'm in '05 Altima whose transmission is on its last legs. When I went to get it fixed, the guy at the transmission shop flatly refused to even open it up - his reasoning being that with over 200k miles on it, fixing it would most likely start a cascade of failures.
But the old beast is too battered to justify a brand new transmission, and it needs a new catalytic converter, and and and and. So, I'm babying it while I save frantically for another used car.
I'm afraid all these manufacturers announcing the end of sedans will drive prices in used ones up even higher than the current ridiculous prices. I don't want to be forced into a crossover - as we age, my wife and I are better served by lower cars, just because I'm short and she's shorter and we're both disabled now.
Grar.
posted by Vigilant at 7:01 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
But the old beast is too battered to justify a brand new transmission, and it needs a new catalytic converter, and and and and. So, I'm babying it while I save frantically for another used car.
I'm afraid all these manufacturers announcing the end of sedans will drive prices in used ones up even higher than the current ridiculous prices. I don't want to be forced into a crossover - as we age, my wife and I are better served by lower cars, just because I'm short and she's shorter and we're both disabled now.
Grar.
posted by Vigilant at 7:01 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
Standards sure have changed. Compared to the 1984 Jeep Cherokee XJ (the first “modern” SUV), the Ioniq 5 is significantly longer, wider, and heavier (and about the same height). The Ioniq 5 is basically the same length, width, and weight (but not as tall) as a 1994 Ford Explorer.
I'm not in the market for a car and may never be at this rate, but an Ioniq 5 was on my wishlist for a while. But I've seen enough of them in person now to realize it's a shockingly large hatchback, big enough that I'd consider it a small SUV. Back when I thought it was Mazda 3 or Civic-sized, I was a lot more into the idea.
posted by chrominance at 7:05 PM on May 16
I'm not in the market for a car and may never be at this rate, but an Ioniq 5 was on my wishlist for a while. But I've seen enough of them in person now to realize it's a shockingly large hatchback, big enough that I'd consider it a small SUV. Back when I thought it was Mazda 3 or Civic-sized, I was a lot more into the idea.
posted by chrominance at 7:05 PM on May 16
I want to read this charitably, but the article feels almost intentionally misleading. For example:
For all these reasons, modest-size sedans like the Malibu are disappearing from American streets, supplanted by SUVs and pickups that seem to grow bulkier with every model refresh. (The Chevy Bolts produced at GM’s Kansas plant will be bigger than the previous Bolt model, which was retired last year.)
Someone reading that would reasonable assume that the Malibu is smaller than the Bolt, which is entirely false. The 2025 Bolt (the new one) is about 169" long, 70" wide, 63.5" tall. The now retired Malibu is a full two feet longer at 194" and 73" wide, albeit slightly shorter at 57". They weigh about the same as well, despite the battery in the Bolt. SUV is a branding term that applies both to giant vehicles that hold 8 people and cars that are smaller than pretty much every sedan ever made.
There's a good article to be written about the increase in pickup truck sizes (totally real and dangerous) and another one to be written about the death of sedan as a body style. Maybe a third one about the weight and acceleration of electric vehicles. But putting them together this way isn't it.
posted by true at 7:10 PM on May 16 [11 favorites]
For all these reasons, modest-size sedans like the Malibu are disappearing from American streets, supplanted by SUVs and pickups that seem to grow bulkier with every model refresh. (The Chevy Bolts produced at GM’s Kansas plant will be bigger than the previous Bolt model, which was retired last year.)
Someone reading that would reasonable assume that the Malibu is smaller than the Bolt, which is entirely false. The 2025 Bolt (the new one) is about 169" long, 70" wide, 63.5" tall. The now retired Malibu is a full two feet longer at 194" and 73" wide, albeit slightly shorter at 57". They weigh about the same as well, despite the battery in the Bolt. SUV is a branding term that applies both to giant vehicles that hold 8 people and cars that are smaller than pretty much every sedan ever made.
There's a good article to be written about the increase in pickup truck sizes (totally real and dangerous) and another one to be written about the death of sedan as a body style. Maybe a third one about the weight and acceleration of electric vehicles. But putting them together this way isn't it.
posted by true at 7:10 PM on May 16 [11 favorites]
I'm not in the market for a car and may never be at this rate, but an Ioniq 5 was on my wishlist for a while. But I've seen enough of them in person now to realize it's a shockingly large hatchback, big enough that I'd consider it a small SUV.
No reasonable person would call the Ioniq 5 a hatchback, IMHO. My brother's household owns an eGolf and an Ioniq5 and the difference is night and day.
posted by hoyland at 7:16 PM on May 16
No reasonable person would call the Ioniq 5 a hatchback, IMHO. My brother's household owns an eGolf and an Ioniq5 and the difference is night and day.
posted by hoyland at 7:16 PM on May 16
This is probably the only time I'll get to mention the Iraqibu, which were everywhere in my hometown Halifax in the early 80s. The result of an export deal to Iraq that went sideways, these Malibu's had three speed manual transmissions, air conditioning, but no rear defroster.
posted by bowline at 7:16 PM on May 16 [22 favorites]
posted by bowline at 7:16 PM on May 16 [22 favorites]
The Chevy Bolts produced at GM’s Kansas plant will be bigger than the previous Bolt model, which was retired last year.
But... this is how car models have always worked. You start off with a small car and a medium sized car as a new auto maker. You build those until you can iterate and then the small car becomes slightly larger and the medium car becomes slightly larger. You do this maybe 3 times and then your medium car has become renamed as a big car, you small car takes on the medium sized car's name and you introduce a new small car named the same as or similar to the previous small car.
Repeat.
What isn't happening now is the introduction of any small cars at all. Instead it's small SUVs, medium SUVs... etc .
Repeat.
posted by hippybear at 7:21 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
But... this is how car models have always worked. You start off with a small car and a medium sized car as a new auto maker. You build those until you can iterate and then the small car becomes slightly larger and the medium car becomes slightly larger. You do this maybe 3 times and then your medium car has become renamed as a big car, you small car takes on the medium sized car's name and you introduce a new small car named the same as or similar to the previous small car.
Repeat.
What isn't happening now is the introduction of any small cars at all. Instead it's small SUVs, medium SUVs... etc .
Repeat.
posted by hippybear at 7:21 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
I remember when my folks bought an orange Vega wagon...
Aluminum Engine Block, an interesting experiment. History of the Chevy Vega is fascinating (John DeLorean? Wankel?).
posted by ovvl at 7:28 PM on May 16
Aluminum Engine Block, an interesting experiment. History of the Chevy Vega is fascinating (John DeLorean? Wankel?).
posted by ovvl at 7:28 PM on May 16
A Chevy Sprint?
Oh gosh no, it's a Nissan. 3 cylinder turbo + CVT is how you get both the mileage and the torque these days. If I use cruise control and go slow on a flat road with the wind at my tail I can get almost 50 mpg.
posted by credulous at 7:46 PM on May 16
Oh gosh no, it's a Nissan. 3 cylinder turbo + CVT is how you get both the mileage and the torque these days. If I use cruise control and go slow on a flat road with the wind at my tail I can get almost 50 mpg.
posted by credulous at 7:46 PM on May 16
No reasonable person would call the Ioniq 5 a hatchback, IMHO. My brother's household owns an eGolf and an Ioniq5 and the difference is night and day.
From pictures, especially ones without any other cars in the shot, it can be hard to tell how big it is. Or at least it was for me.
posted by chrominance at 8:07 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
From pictures, especially ones without any other cars in the shot, it can be hard to tell how big it is. Or at least it was for me.
posted by chrominance at 8:07 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
I am extremely happy that the UAW made factory closures an issue in their newest GM contract. At least the plant will stay union and get another product. Unlike NUMMI, Lordstown, and other criminal plant closures.
I’m sure whatever they make will be garbage. The whole auto industry has lost the plot. Practical, affordable, fun to drive? Nope. pick none of the above.
posted by Headfullofair at 8:11 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
I’m sure whatever they make will be garbage. The whole auto industry has lost the plot. Practical, affordable, fun to drive? Nope. pick none of the above.
posted by Headfullofair at 8:11 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
The Ioniq 5 is basically the same length, width, and weight (but not as tall) as a 1994 Ford Explorer.
I passed a 1990s Ford Explorer on the highway the other day, and was surprised at how small it looked. I remember when those were new and people made fun of how huge they were.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:17 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
I passed a 1990s Ford Explorer on the highway the other day, and was surprised at how small it looked. I remember when those were new and people made fun of how huge they were.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:17 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]
I don't own a car and never have. In many ways it might be nice to have one, but I look at what's available these days and it's not encouraging. The bigness of everything is really depressing. I really liked driving the Smart FourTwos when they were all over Seattle as Car2Go.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 8:28 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
posted by vibratory manner of working at 8:28 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
I don't mourn the loss of sedans at all, as they are the least useful platform apart from maybe a coupe. Station wagons should have overtaken sedans decades ago, having all the features plus useful carrying stuff space, but I feel like the wagon market in the US killed that by mostly making wagons some kind of monstrosity that looked like they were out of a National Lampoons movie. Here in Australia, wagons were identical to the equivalent sedan, but with a larger space at the back instead of a boot, but the withdrawal from manufacturing (or designing) any cars here by GM and Ford killed them too. Now, twin-cab utilities are by far the biggest sellers and, while they're great in many ways (I own one), they are way more car than most people need. For some strange reason, the RAV-4 has recently jumped to the top of the sales figures here, which is sort of kinda promising but probably just a blip:
1. Toyota RAV4
2. Ford Ranger
3. Toyota HiLux
4. Ford Everest
5. Isuzu D-Max
6. Toyota Corolla
7. Toyota LandCruiser
8. Isuzu MU-X
9. Toyota Camry
10. Mitsubishi Outlander.
I do mourn the loss of smaller cars, particularly quality small cars. I feel that if there were more small cars that didn't feel like a tin can, maybe more people would buy them. Mostly, though, I mourn the bloat that others have mentioned and, even in cars like the F100/150 etc range that have always been on the large side, the same model gets bigger and bigger in overall size without gaining any more useable space. I also have a 1961 F100 and, just for fun, parked it beside the new-ish F250 owned by someone just down the road from us. It looked like a toy and the roof on my car was lower than the bottom of the windows on the wank-mobile. Mine is a single cab that seats three and the F150 is a double that seats five, but that's the only extra capacity it has - the bed on the F250 is exactly the same length and only slightly wider inside than mine. But it's so high that there's no way to load anything into the back without a forklift.
Added to the fact that just about every new car looks just like every other car these days and none of them will last long, I don't think I'd touch any of them.
posted by dg at 8:43 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
1. Toyota RAV4
2. Ford Ranger
3. Toyota HiLux
4. Ford Everest
5. Isuzu D-Max
6. Toyota Corolla
7. Toyota LandCruiser
8. Isuzu MU-X
9. Toyota Camry
10. Mitsubishi Outlander.
I do mourn the loss of smaller cars, particularly quality small cars. I feel that if there were more small cars that didn't feel like a tin can, maybe more people would buy them. Mostly, though, I mourn the bloat that others have mentioned and, even in cars like the F100/150 etc range that have always been on the large side, the same model gets bigger and bigger in overall size without gaining any more useable space. I also have a 1961 F100 and, just for fun, parked it beside the new-ish F250 owned by someone just down the road from us. It looked like a toy and the roof on my car was lower than the bottom of the windows on the wank-mobile. Mine is a single cab that seats three and the F150 is a double that seats five, but that's the only extra capacity it has - the bed on the F250 is exactly the same length and only slightly wider inside than mine. But it's so high that there's no way to load anything into the back without a forklift.
Added to the fact that just about every new car looks just like every other car these days and none of them will last long, I don't think I'd touch any of them.
posted by dg at 8:43 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
Here's a Gen 2 Leaf next to a nice e-Golf from last decade.
My parents had a Pontiac Phoenix of all things, a sedan in the front with a hatchback . . . it was quite similar to the current hatchback form factor.
My 2018 LEAF was relatively affordable; $33k MSRP was high but after all discounts and gov't checks & tax credits I got it for $15.5k and 0% interest (last payment is next month!).
I was looking at the Model Y in the garage next it to just now, and the Y is very similar but like ~10% expanded in all dimensions, eg. 5" wider, 11" longer, 3" taller.
I was passing a ~2015 era Rav4 in the MY and saw that it was pretty similar in size, but without the SUV back; the Y is a bit longer and wider but of course not as tall.
Honda's just announced a $64B (!) electrification push, better late than never. Their current partnership with GM for BEVs is the definition of pathetic.
A 2018 Golf weight 3000lbs while the e- version added 450lbs, with just 36kWh, enough for in-town travel but not so fun on long trips.
I'm a big fan of electric* but the added weight is apparently making it difficult for the legacy makers to just put the powertrain in their existing models. Theoretically Nissan could have an electric Maxima, Rogue, Pathfinder, 400Z at their dealers . . . instead of the bloated jelly bean form factor of the Ariya. But I guess they don't have the engineering staff to pull that off.
Even Tesla's been none to aggressive in expanding their lineup since the MY reveal 5 years ago.
What I want from a car, in in order of priority:
* and I do wonder about BEV's year 10 - 20 ownership costs. The early adopters are just starting to run into this period now.
posted by torokunai at 8:55 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
My parents had a Pontiac Phoenix of all things, a sedan in the front with a hatchback . . . it was quite similar to the current hatchback form factor.
My 2018 LEAF was relatively affordable; $33k MSRP was high but after all discounts and gov't checks & tax credits I got it for $15.5k and 0% interest (last payment is next month!).
I was looking at the Model Y in the garage next it to just now, and the Y is very similar but like ~10% expanded in all dimensions, eg. 5" wider, 11" longer, 3" taller.
I was passing a ~2015 era Rav4 in the MY and saw that it was pretty similar in size, but without the SUV back; the Y is a bit longer and wider but of course not as tall.
Honda's just announced a $64B (!) electrification push, better late than never. Their current partnership with GM for BEVs is the definition of pathetic.
A 2018 Golf weight 3000lbs while the e- version added 450lbs, with just 36kWh, enough for in-town travel but not so fun on long trips.
I'm a big fan of electric* but the added weight is apparently making it difficult for the legacy makers to just put the powertrain in their existing models. Theoretically Nissan could have an electric Maxima, Rogue, Pathfinder, 400Z at their dealers . . . instead of the bloated jelly bean form factor of the Ariya. But I guess they don't have the engineering staff to pull that off.
Even Tesla's been none to aggressive in expanding their lineup since the MY reveal 5 years ago.
What I want from a car, in in order of priority:
- Level 3/4 ADAS (good enough to not wake me up with just seconds to take over)
- 250+ mile highway range
- Adapter-free NACS
- AWD
- Cargo space
- Acceleration
- Ground clearance
- Media (Audible/Apple Music) integration
* and I do wonder about BEV's year 10 - 20 ownership costs. The early adopters are just starting to run into this period now.
posted by torokunai at 8:55 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
dg - re: RAV4 sales, the sales volumes these days are mostly driven by supply, not demand.
RAV4 demand has always been there, there used to be a 12 month waiting period to get one, now it's down to 6 months with improved supply - it looks like they got a big shipment in April.
Even the Ford Ranger vs Toyota Hilux rivalry last year for top selling vehicle was entirely supply chain driven. Ford ended up leasing a ship exclusively for its own use to ship vehicles to Australia. Both companies instantly sell any vehicles they can get through the ports, there is no question of demand.
There are still critical shortages of computer chips and other component bottlenecks in auto manufacturing, aftershocks of the Covid supply crunch. If you have only 1,000 units of some safety critical computer chip, you'd obviously put them into the truck or SUV that earns a $15,000 profit margin as opposed to a cheap sedan that earns a $1,000 profit margin - certainly a factor if Toyota is deciding where to allocate chips between its Corolla, Camry, Hilux and RAV4.
posted by xdvesper at 8:59 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
RAV4 demand has always been there, there used to be a 12 month waiting period to get one, now it's down to 6 months with improved supply - it looks like they got a big shipment in April.
Even the Ford Ranger vs Toyota Hilux rivalry last year for top selling vehicle was entirely supply chain driven. Ford ended up leasing a ship exclusively for its own use to ship vehicles to Australia. Both companies instantly sell any vehicles they can get through the ports, there is no question of demand.
There are still critical shortages of computer chips and other component bottlenecks in auto manufacturing, aftershocks of the Covid supply crunch. If you have only 1,000 units of some safety critical computer chip, you'd obviously put them into the truck or SUV that earns a $15,000 profit margin as opposed to a cheap sedan that earns a $1,000 profit margin - certainly a factor if Toyota is deciding where to allocate chips between its Corolla, Camry, Hilux and RAV4.
posted by xdvesper at 8:59 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]
FWIW one of the most in-demand 4WDs in the Australian market? The Suzuki Jimny, the size of a generous fridge, manual transmission, with a pants-tearing 1.5L engine capacity. And a towball. When good cars are offered, people take the opportunity...
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:52 PM on May 16 [7 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:52 PM on May 16 [7 favorites]
No reasonable person would call the Ioniq 5 a hatchback, IMHO. My brother's household owns an eGolf and an Ioniq5 and the difference is night and day.
From pictures, especially ones without any other cars in the shot, it can be hard to tell how big it is. Or at least it was for me.
~30% greater cargo volume, depending on how you fold the seats
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 10:08 PM on May 16
From pictures, especially ones without any other cars in the shot, it can be hard to tell how big it is. Or at least it was for me.
~30% greater cargo volume, depending on how you fold the seats
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 10:08 PM on May 16
I can't tell the difference between the newer autos on the road anymore. They all look the same to me. And what happened to color? […] It's all black, white, greyish, or maybe a few greenish ones."The Age of Average" by Alex Murrell (originally the subject of its own FPP).
posted by Strutter Cane - United Planets Stilt Patrol at 11:58 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]
That sucks. I just bought a 2022 Malibu with low kms and love it. It drives beautifully, much prefer it over the Mazda 3 I had, and it does very well on gas. So much for replacing it with a newer Malibu, or maybe anything similar, when it starts getting older.
posted by blue shadows at 12:17 AM on May 17
posted by blue shadows at 12:17 AM on May 17
FWIW one of the most in-demand 4WDs in the Australian market? The Suzuki Jimny
God they're just so cute and cool too, like, one is not on the cards for my future at all but if I had some excuse to buy a car on behalf of a business or something... my absolute favourite car to see on the roads right now.
posted by Audreynachrome at 1:23 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
God they're just so cute and cool too, like, one is not on the cards for my future at all but if I had some excuse to buy a car on behalf of a business or something... my absolute favourite car to see on the roads right now.
posted by Audreynachrome at 1:23 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
What I also hate about this trend is that the UK has imported it wholesale. I fully expect to not be able to purchase my preferred style of car (sedan-shaped hatchback) within 1-2 future car purchases, because somehow the US car market has convinced the UK car market that SUVs and crossovers are the only desirable style of vehicle, even though they make even less sense here where a lot of our roads & parking spaces are smaller than the average US equivalents, and the absolute longest drive one can do in the entire country is only 15 hours.
I was involved in a minor accident last year and had to get my bumper replaced, and for about three weeks I had a mini SUV as a hire car. Even though it was literally 10 years newer than my car and had a bunch of features mine lacks, I enjoyed the feel of driving it a lot less. I'm a fairly normal height (just under 6' with long legs) and I could not adjust the driver's seat into a comfortable position, because the manufacturer didn't allow the car seat to go back as far as mine does; I assume they assumed that the extra ability to raise and lower the seat because of the additional cabin height would allow drivers to find a comfortable position, but my most comfortable position required the car seat to go back 2-3" more than the length of the seat rails actually permitted.
I hate that I'm going to be forced to drive uncomfortable cars that also look dumb for the rest of my life because Americans have bad taste in cars and British people have bad taste in American habits.
posted by terretu at 1:37 AM on May 17 [5 favorites]
I was involved in a minor accident last year and had to get my bumper replaced, and for about three weeks I had a mini SUV as a hire car. Even though it was literally 10 years newer than my car and had a bunch of features mine lacks, I enjoyed the feel of driving it a lot less. I'm a fairly normal height (just under 6' with long legs) and I could not adjust the driver's seat into a comfortable position, because the manufacturer didn't allow the car seat to go back as far as mine does; I assume they assumed that the extra ability to raise and lower the seat because of the additional cabin height would allow drivers to find a comfortable position, but my most comfortable position required the car seat to go back 2-3" more than the length of the seat rails actually permitted.
I hate that I'm going to be forced to drive uncomfortable cars that also look dumb for the rest of my life because Americans have bad taste in cars and British people have bad taste in American habits.
posted by terretu at 1:37 AM on May 17 [5 favorites]
I look at all these gigantic vehicles on the road and think wow, people really love forking over a significant chunk of their income to gas companies, don’t they?
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:15 AM on May 17 [7 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:15 AM on May 17 [7 favorites]
We had a Malibu a few years back-my spouse chose it because it had decent power, over my thoughts on what Consumer Reports had to say, as well as thoughts about AWD for our hill/steep driveway. Every time it met a frozen patch at the beginning of the driveway, it literally couldn’t get out of its own way, and would stay there until it thawed enough. After so, so many long, cold walks up the driveway and several expensive maintenance needs early in its career, with no mysterious perks like the Repo Man car, the Malibu was a lemon in my mind. And my spouse became a convert to reading Consumer Reports for car purchases.
As my older Crosstrek ages, and we are soon having only one high schooler in residence, I’m dismayed at my options…
posted by childofTethys at 4:18 AM on May 17
As my older Crosstrek ages, and we are soon having only one high schooler in residence, I’m dismayed at my options…
posted by childofTethys at 4:18 AM on May 17
The other day I was sitting in my Subaru Forester in a parking lot when a large truck attempted to park next to me. They got mostly between the lines after a couple of tries. I couldn't help but notice that the bottom of their passenger-side window was approximately the same height as the top of my window.
While I'm in no hurry to replace my Forester (9 years and 65k miles) when I do it will be something smaller and not from Detroit.
posted by tommasz at 4:19 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
While I'm in no hurry to replace my Forester (9 years and 65k miles) when I do it will be something smaller and not from Detroit.
posted by tommasz at 4:19 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
Practical, affordable, fun to drive? Nope. pick none of the above.
Eh, I had to pay $17k for a used Prelude in 2000 or 2001. A new one would have been $24k. That's $43K now.
You can get LOTS of good brand new sedans, hatchbacks, and coupes for that now. For comparison, a double-cab f150 runs $43k for base, which I imagine is actually kinda stripped
Base GTI is $31k, $17K in late-2000 dollars.
Base WRX is $33k
Civic SI is $29K
Elantra N is $34k
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:51 AM on May 17
Eh, I had to pay $17k for a used Prelude in 2000 or 2001. A new one would have been $24k. That's $43K now.
You can get LOTS of good brand new sedans, hatchbacks, and coupes for that now. For comparison, a double-cab f150 runs $43k for base, which I imagine is actually kinda stripped
Base GTI is $31k, $17K in late-2000 dollars.
Base WRX is $33k
Civic SI is $29K
Elantra N is $34k
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:51 AM on May 17
I enjoy UK bicycle safety twitter, who invent lovely terms like “wankpanzer”, “petrosexual”, and “overcompensating knobmobile”. We need gassoline to become way more expensive.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:02 AM on May 17 [15 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 5:02 AM on May 17 [15 favorites]
If you want cargo space, three rows of seats, and a compact size, we got a Ford Transit Connect. Interior space is huge, it has three rows of seats that fold flat for cargo, it is very low to the ground so it's easy to get in and out of and load things in the back, and it doesn't have any garbage unneccessary bells and whistles. It's considered a commercial/fleet vehicle and I think the top end version is about 40k, they start at 29k or so. The only problem is that low-riding makes it a poor performer in the snow. We'd buy a second one if not for the need to have a awd vehicle with a tow hook that can go pull the Transit free when it gets stuck.
posted by AzraelBrown at 5:08 AM on May 17 [4 favorites]
posted by AzraelBrown at 5:08 AM on May 17 [4 favorites]
I too can't get a big SUV even if I wanted one due to a tiny parking spot under a condo from the 1950's. We ended up with a subcompact crossover and it does the job both for hauling family around and the odd time we need to move a large piece of furniture.
That said, add me to the list of people who reject the free "upgrade" to a big SUV when I'm just trying to rent a small sedan. If I'm travelling for work it's just me, a carry-on bag and a laptop bag. What do I need 3 rows of seating for?
posted by thecjm at 6:02 AM on May 17
That said, add me to the list of people who reject the free "upgrade" to a big SUV when I'm just trying to rent a small sedan. If I'm travelling for work it's just me, a carry-on bag and a laptop bag. What do I need 3 rows of seating for?
posted by thecjm at 6:02 AM on May 17
FWIW one of the most in-demand 4WDs in the Australian market? The Suzuki Jimny
There are a few of those here in town, with Mexican license plates. I like how they look though I'd worry a bit about crash safety given the disparity in size. If they were available here, or if I was back and forth enough to Mexico to make the cross-border registration make sense, I'd buy one for sure.
In terns of new cars and rentals, for the last six or nine months I've been renting a lot of cars on work trips. Usually they are crossovers of one type or another, since that's what you get if you request AWD. What really stands out to me is how crappy a lot of them are to drive. Just sort of minimally engineered, with bad interfaces and often bad ergonomics, and they tend to feel really cheap. I haven't yet driven one that would make me want to sell my current vehicle.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:18 AM on May 17
There are a few of those here in town, with Mexican license plates. I like how they look though I'd worry a bit about crash safety given the disparity in size. If they were available here, or if I was back and forth enough to Mexico to make the cross-border registration make sense, I'd buy one for sure.
In terns of new cars and rentals, for the last six or nine months I've been renting a lot of cars on work trips. Usually they are crossovers of one type or another, since that's what you get if you request AWD. What really stands out to me is how crappy a lot of them are to drive. Just sort of minimally engineered, with bad interfaces and often bad ergonomics, and they tend to feel really cheap. I haven't yet driven one that would make me want to sell my current vehicle.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:18 AM on May 17
Me, I just hope the minivan never goes away. It’s the ultimate unpretentious utility vehicle. Driving one makes you instantly cool because it means you truly don’t GAF. We bought our Sienna when we were surprised with twins and the need to cart them around as well as the giant triple stroller we needed for them and our oldest who was still little. The sliding doors are a miracle that made loading the babies in easy. And then when they got older we didn’t have to worry about the kids causing door dings when getting out of the car. Typical, yeah. But over the years we have used the hell out of that van. When we had to DIY renovate our house it became the ultimate hauler: many trips from the improvement store with 4x8 sheets of building material, trips to the dump loaded full, and since I added a tow hitch, I could go to the equipment rental place and get a trailer to bring bigger equipment back to our house. We’ve also taken it on so many family camping trips, towing our pop-up camper trailer through the mountains. I couldn’t imagine replacing it with anything else but another minivan.
posted by zsazsa at 6:28 AM on May 17 [5 favorites]
posted by zsazsa at 6:28 AM on May 17 [5 favorites]
I can't tell the difference between the newer autos on the road anymore. They all look the same to me. And what happened to color?..It's all black, white, greyish, or maybe a few greenish ones.
They all look like giant Star Wars stormtrooper helmets on wheels. Vehicles should be taxed by weight and size and pollution. Pay for the space you take up.
posted by pracowity at 6:52 AM on May 17 [6 favorites]
They all look like giant Star Wars stormtrooper helmets on wheels. Vehicles should be taxed by weight and size and pollution. Pay for the space you take up.
posted by pracowity at 6:52 AM on May 17 [6 favorites]
I'm really sad because the Honda Fit did go away. Honda still sells it overseas, but we're no longer deserving of it here in the states. Given how old my "new" cars tend to be I figure I've got one last purchase left if there are any late model used ones to be found. After that I don't know.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:33 AM on May 17 [4 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:33 AM on May 17 [4 favorites]
Air conditioning? Good braking? Good handling? Fuck all that candy-ass garbage.
What you want is a plain-Jane 1965 Chevelle. Simple, small, pretty, weighs about as much as a lunch box. Unless you're brain-dead you're gonna buy the 327 365 horsepower with a 4 speed. Put big fat tires on it; you're going to need them.
Get onto a straight stretch of road -- this thing handles like a wobble-wheel grocery cart.
Get onto a straight stretch of road. Floor it, dump the clutch, and your life will change.
Pull 2nd, jam 3rd, pull 4th, you're smiling, laughing, blasting past 100 mph, 110 mph, 120 mph, not even noticing.
Corvettes, yeah, they're cute.
I had a 69 Chevelle, a real screamer that I smacked dead-on into a tree after 15 beers and a big fat joint -- that one still hurts; I've made dumber, more painful moves in my life, but with women.
But Chevrolet, the best? 1965 Chevelle. I sometimes wonder if there maybe wasn't a Jesus, and the 1965 Chevelle a miracle. It's one hell of a lot better than the one with the fish and bread and stuff.
posted by dancestoblue at 8:12 AM on May 17 [6 favorites]
What you want is a plain-Jane 1965 Chevelle. Simple, small, pretty, weighs about as much as a lunch box. Unless you're brain-dead you're gonna buy the 327 365 horsepower with a 4 speed. Put big fat tires on it; you're going to need them.
Get onto a straight stretch of road -- this thing handles like a wobble-wheel grocery cart.
Get onto a straight stretch of road. Floor it, dump the clutch, and your life will change.
Pull 2nd, jam 3rd, pull 4th, you're smiling, laughing, blasting past 100 mph, 110 mph, 120 mph, not even noticing.
Corvettes, yeah, they're cute.
I had a 69 Chevelle, a real screamer that I smacked dead-on into a tree after 15 beers and a big fat joint -- that one still hurts; I've made dumber, more painful moves in my life, but with women.
But Chevrolet, the best? 1965 Chevelle. I sometimes wonder if there maybe wasn't a Jesus, and the 1965 Chevelle a miracle. It's one hell of a lot better than the one with the fish and bread and stuff.
posted by dancestoblue at 8:12 AM on May 17 [6 favorites]
Me, I just hope the minivan never goes away. It’s the ultimate unpretentious utility vehicle.
They are on their way out - but I think they are getting some minor improvements this year (the Honda has been almost exactly the same for 14 years now) to extend their lifespan for another decade or so.
You like yours but my Odyssey is a piece of junk, and it's only slightly smaller than a Chevy Tahoe (a huge vehicle), and the gas mileage isn't great, really not much better than the SUVs people generally complain about. They are ok haulers empty, but as kid haulers, they are generally filled with lots of kid stuff which you have to clean out first, making them worse than a bougie pickup. However, the advantage is they are good for car seats- you have to buy a $100k Audi or Mercedes SUV to get the same number of car seat latches as a minivan. Last time I checked (not recently) none of the domestics are even close, even if they have a 3rd row.
I've also spend a lot of time in a Chrysler minivan, which is worse than the Odyssey in every way for the same model year (2012).
The sliding door things are fine until they break - then they are $700 per side, but I did almost get in a fight once because my 3 year old kicked a car door into a person's new car, so maybe worth it? IDK, I find them annoying and slow.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:21 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
They are on their way out - but I think they are getting some minor improvements this year (the Honda has been almost exactly the same for 14 years now) to extend their lifespan for another decade or so.
You like yours but my Odyssey is a piece of junk, and it's only slightly smaller than a Chevy Tahoe (a huge vehicle), and the gas mileage isn't great, really not much better than the SUVs people generally complain about. They are ok haulers empty, but as kid haulers, they are generally filled with lots of kid stuff which you have to clean out first, making them worse than a bougie pickup. However, the advantage is they are good for car seats- you have to buy a $100k Audi or Mercedes SUV to get the same number of car seat latches as a minivan. Last time I checked (not recently) none of the domestics are even close, even if they have a 3rd row.
I've also spend a lot of time in a Chrysler minivan, which is worse than the Odyssey in every way for the same model year (2012).
The sliding door things are fine until they break - then they are $700 per side, but I did almost get in a fight once because my 3 year old kicked a car door into a person's new car, so maybe worth it? IDK, I find them annoying and slow.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:21 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
Repo Man
...It's the best god damn car in the yard.
posted by thefool at 8:33 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
...It's the best god damn car in the yard.
posted by thefool at 8:33 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
this is how car models have always worked. You start off with a small car and a medium sized car as a new auto maker. You build those until you can iterate and then the small car becomes slightly larger and the medium car becomes slightly larger.
The Family Circus version of my response to this features Not Me with a VW logo and various insect and rabbit characters driving (or being driven) around in the background.
I feel like if you didn't need to get a CDL to drive a straight-up semi with a sleeper cab, driving that as a daily driver would become a thing.
I'd love one! My dream vehicle for a full-time transition.
posted by Rash at 8:40 AM on May 17
The Family Circus version of my response to this features Not Me with a VW logo and various insect and rabbit characters driving (or being driven) around in the background.
I feel like if you didn't need to get a CDL to drive a straight-up semi with a sleeper cab, driving that as a daily driver would become a thing.
I'd love one! My dream vehicle for a full-time transition.
posted by Rash at 8:40 AM on May 17
I've driven sedans most of my life. I have also lived in the land of ice and snow for all of my life. The only sedan I ever drove that gave me decent traction was a leased VW Passat that held the road with Germanic authority. The rest were all shite on snow and ice, not to mention dealing with significant snowfall. We drive a small SUV now and I'm never going back.
My first car was a 70 Malibu that I got from an aunt that never drove above 45. It took a while for me to burn off the carbon. That car would sit in a campus parking lot in 20 below temps and start every damn time. One winter my girlfriend (now wife) practically stole it...because it always started. The exhaust system was crap and often fell apart on the highway. The heater was suspect and would howl under stress, Dad had a guy replace it. It ate alternator belts. The paint oxidized. A friend once drew a giant phallus in the dust on the hood and it somehow burned in. Hence we always called the Malibu The Green Dick. I had to keep bottles of Heet at the ready once winter started. I get nostalgic for it now and then, but it was not a great car by any means. The engine was definitely a dog, slow to accelerate.
All in all, it was functional but it wasn't a black 67 Impala.
posted by Ber at 8:50 AM on May 17 [3 favorites]
My first car was a 70 Malibu that I got from an aunt that never drove above 45. It took a while for me to burn off the carbon. That car would sit in a campus parking lot in 20 below temps and start every damn time. One winter my girlfriend (now wife) practically stole it...because it always started. The exhaust system was crap and often fell apart on the highway. The heater was suspect and would howl under stress, Dad had a guy replace it. It ate alternator belts. The paint oxidized. A friend once drew a giant phallus in the dust on the hood and it somehow burned in. Hence we always called the Malibu The Green Dick. I had to keep bottles of Heet at the ready once winter started. I get nostalgic for it now and then, but it was not a great car by any means. The engine was definitely a dog, slow to accelerate.
All in all, it was functional but it wasn't a black 67 Impala.
posted by Ber at 8:50 AM on May 17 [3 favorites]
I had a 2007 Malibu for a while, I had to buy it because my car broke down in some tiny country town while traveling home for some holiday, and my car was on its last legs and super expensive to fix, so I limped to a Chevy dealership and it was either a Malibu or a big pickup for 3X as much money. I chose the Malibu without even really looking at it or test driving it. The salesguy was actually pretty nice, gave me a decent deal, etc.
2007 was when Chevy was about to go bankrupt, and their cars were products of cost cutting and budget cutting that you get from such teetering corporate status. To get to passing speed, you'd push the pedal down, wait 2 seconds, and then the tach would speed up and it would accelerate. It was a v6 too, not a tiny 4 cylinder, but it drove like an underpowered 4 cylinder. The interior plastics were basically sourced from children's toys, and there was no insulation so it was pretty loud, and the speakers rattled. But the gas mileage was good, so overall driving it was ok. The worst thing was the radio - it would occasionally just lock out and go into security mode, and it was the beginning of integration of everything into the stereo, so you couldn't do anything with the stereo in security mode. It generally would not reset without going to the dealership. I attempted to get it fixed 3 times, but the bankruptcy thing meant Chevy had bigger things on their mind than working radios, and customer service also wasn't something they cared about.
So I had to drive around with a boombox in my car to listen to music until it was paid off, at which point I immediately got rid of it. I had a friend in college who had to do that, but his car was built in 1979 and driving it in 1996, not brand new. The radio was fun too - since they didn't quite know what to do yet with 'digital integration', you could switch all the displays from miles to kilometers, and the gas to liters.
I haven't trusted GM since, and I'm not surprised it's gone.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:17 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
2007 was when Chevy was about to go bankrupt, and their cars were products of cost cutting and budget cutting that you get from such teetering corporate status. To get to passing speed, you'd push the pedal down, wait 2 seconds, and then the tach would speed up and it would accelerate. It was a v6 too, not a tiny 4 cylinder, but it drove like an underpowered 4 cylinder. The interior plastics were basically sourced from children's toys, and there was no insulation so it was pretty loud, and the speakers rattled. But the gas mileage was good, so overall driving it was ok. The worst thing was the radio - it would occasionally just lock out and go into security mode, and it was the beginning of integration of everything into the stereo, so you couldn't do anything with the stereo in security mode. It generally would not reset without going to the dealership. I attempted to get it fixed 3 times, but the bankruptcy thing meant Chevy had bigger things on their mind than working radios, and customer service also wasn't something they cared about.
So I had to drive around with a boombox in my car to listen to music until it was paid off, at which point I immediately got rid of it. I had a friend in college who had to do that, but his car was built in 1979 and driving it in 1996, not brand new. The radio was fun too - since they didn't quite know what to do yet with 'digital integration', you could switch all the displays from miles to kilometers, and the gas to liters.
I haven't trusted GM since, and I'm not surprised it's gone.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:17 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
Don't touch my Cutlass Ciera!
posted by hairless ape at 9:19 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
posted by hairless ape at 9:19 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
The [other sedans] were all shite on snow and ice, not to mention dealing with significant snowfall
WRX + blizzaks renders winter nonexistent. In Buffalo.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:20 AM on May 17 [4 favorites]
WRX + blizzaks renders winter nonexistent. In Buffalo.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:20 AM on May 17 [4 favorites]
WRX + blizzaks renders winter nonexistent. In Buffalo.
Your only limit with a WRX might be ground clearance in heavy snow. Subaru's all wheel drive system is just so much better than most of the competitors. Some of the crossover/small SUV rentals I've been given had laughably bad AWD systems.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:44 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
Your only limit with a WRX might be ground clearance in heavy snow. Subaru's all wheel drive system is just so much better than most of the competitors. Some of the crossover/small SUV rentals I've been given had laughably bad AWD systems.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:44 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
To echo a sentiment that's been voiced in this thread a few times: I care about there being small cars for people to buy. I don't care that they specifically be sedans, and would actually prefer they be hatchbacks or station wagons personally.
I'm still torn personally on small crossovers, because some of them honestly don't look that much bigger or taller than station wagons nowadays, but the increase in size is also not really a trend I want to encourage.
posted by chrominance at 10:43 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
I'm still torn personally on small crossovers, because some of them honestly don't look that much bigger or taller than station wagons nowadays, but the increase in size is also not really a trend I want to encourage.
posted by chrominance at 10:43 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
Pouring one out for the overpowered smooth rides of the Malibu, that car, and the Impala, were always a bit of a joy when I ended up with one renting a car in years past. Is there room for overpowered car shaped cars any more? I suppose the Tesla Model 3 is that in that goofy Prius-like hatchbackish, not a stationwagon, kind of way.
I love small hatchbacks for how easy they were to fit into parking spaces and great gas mileage, but I suppose the compact SUV shaped EVs mostly fill that niche now. Some of the smaller ones like the Kia Niro are basically a slightly taller version of my 2014 Nissan Leaf. Similar footprint for fitting in parking spaces, and with an EV, I'm more concerned with range than fuel economy.
posted by advicepig at 11:01 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
I love small hatchbacks for how easy they were to fit into parking spaces and great gas mileage, but I suppose the compact SUV shaped EVs mostly fill that niche now. Some of the smaller ones like the Kia Niro are basically a slightly taller version of my 2014 Nissan Leaf. Similar footprint for fitting in parking spaces, and with an EV, I'm more concerned with range than fuel economy.
posted by advicepig at 11:01 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]
WRX + blizzaks renders winter nonexistent. In Buffalo.
Your only limit with a WRX might be ground clearance in heavy snow.
Yeah the closest I've gotten to getting stuck in my Forester is once during a heavy snow I drove into an unplowed parking lot to check if the A&W was still open. I got a couple of feet into the lot and my better sense kicked in and I decided to just go straight home. My Forester has an engine issue and is old enough that I should be looking for a replacement but Subaru's really slow on the electrification front and the other top contender, the VW ID.Buzz, isn't out here yet.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:24 PM on May 17
Your only limit with a WRX might be ground clearance in heavy snow.
Yeah the closest I've gotten to getting stuck in my Forester is once during a heavy snow I drove into an unplowed parking lot to check if the A&W was still open. I got a couple of feet into the lot and my better sense kicked in and I decided to just go straight home. My Forester has an engine issue and is old enough that I should be looking for a replacement but Subaru's really slow on the electrification front and the other top contender, the VW ID.Buzz, isn't out here yet.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:24 PM on May 17
WRX + blizzaks renders winter nonexistent. In Buffalo.
Never driven a WRX, but I own a "small" Mazda3 hatchback in Stockholm with generic snow tires (required Nov-Apr by law) and it handles like a dream through month after month of harsh Swedish winter. I know plenty of people with far smaller cars who get around just fine.
It blows my mind the knots I see other Americans twist themselves into convincing themselves that they need a Big Manly Truck to get through snow. Proper driving skills plus proper tires are all you need - it anything, being further off the ground with an empty bed is a recipe for disaster.
posted by photo guy at 1:37 PM on May 17 [6 favorites]
Never driven a WRX, but I own a "small" Mazda3 hatchback in Stockholm with generic snow tires (required Nov-Apr by law) and it handles like a dream through month after month of harsh Swedish winter. I know plenty of people with far smaller cars who get around just fine.
It blows my mind the knots I see other Americans twist themselves into convincing themselves that they need a Big Manly Truck to get through snow. Proper driving skills plus proper tires are all you need - it anything, being further off the ground with an empty bed is a recipe for disaster.
posted by photo guy at 1:37 PM on May 17 [6 favorites]
Also, the Tyre extinguishers improve this situation somewhat (previously).
posted by jeffburdges at 1:48 PM on May 17
posted by jeffburdges at 1:48 PM on May 17
Cadillac seems to be missing from this discussion. They still make the CT4 and CT5. The base model CT4 appears to start somewhere around $8K more than the Malibu, but you get RWD and decent horsepower out of the turbo 2.0l.
Is it enough? Clearly not. Should absurd 3-ton brodozers go away? Absolutely. Is there a way to fix it? Yes. Campaign finance reform.
posted by your old pal at 2:04 PM on May 17 [1 favorite]
Is it enough? Clearly not. Should absurd 3-ton brodozers go away? Absolutely. Is there a way to fix it? Yes. Campaign finance reform.
posted by your old pal at 2:04 PM on May 17 [1 favorite]
photo guy I may be mistaken but I don't think Stockholm sees anywhere as much snow as Buffalo does. You don't need a truck but something with AWD or 4WD makes a huge difference on roads that haven't been plowed recently and if the snow gets high enough, and in Buffalo it does, clearance will come into play as well.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:40 PM on May 17 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:40 PM on May 17 [1 favorite]
You'd be surprised.
It's probably different in the City of Buffalo where the snow removal isn't as fast, but I live and work out in the burbs. Driving on snowy roads is normal, but that window where there's too much snow for a WRX but not so much that ain't nobody goin' nowhere is almost nonexistent.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:56 PM on May 17
It's probably different in the City of Buffalo where the snow removal isn't as fast, but I live and work out in the burbs. Driving on snowy roads is normal, but that window where there's too much snow for a WRX but not so much that ain't nobody goin' nowhere is almost nonexistent.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:56 PM on May 17
We needed a new car and got an unexpected windfall and were able to afford a used 2018 Audi A5 sportback. It was a low miles lease return*. I LOVE this car! I wish a bit that it were new enough to be a hybrid which also adds a bit more power. I'm a car guy through and through, I've sold cars for a living as a lot of the folks in my family have or do. It's one of the best cars I've driven let alone owned.
I love how small and tight it is (I'd totally be down for the A3 hatch but I do need the room for family reasons), how low slung, quiet, quick, and nimble.
I have winter tires for it mounted on different wheels (smaller wheels with larger sidewall tires so I get the same rolling circumference). It's great when it's snowy and I accelerate away from a stop light nice and easy and then wonder what's taking the other cars so long. Even better when I juice a bit and tear off yelling, "QUATTRO!!!" while the other car rapidly shrink in my rearview (I don't even have to go that fast to accidentally smoke everything else).
Quattro is great and all but the tires are easily the biggest impact. With the all season tires on mine and winter tires on your car, you will beat me every time and I don't care what your car is.
I'm glad that even though Detroit is done making sedans there are still plenty of other brands making good ones.
*By the way, off-lease A4/A5s, Mercedes C-Class, and BMW 3-series tend to be pretty good deals used. They're often fleet vehicles provided to executives as a perk at a bunch of companies on 24 month leases and when they're turned in they're still basically new.
posted by VTX at 2:57 PM on May 17 [4 favorites]
I love how small and tight it is (I'd totally be down for the A3 hatch but I do need the room for family reasons), how low slung, quiet, quick, and nimble.
I have winter tires for it mounted on different wheels (smaller wheels with larger sidewall tires so I get the same rolling circumference). It's great when it's snowy and I accelerate away from a stop light nice and easy and then wonder what's taking the other cars so long. Even better when I juice a bit and tear off yelling, "QUATTRO!!!" while the other car rapidly shrink in my rearview (I don't even have to go that fast to accidentally smoke everything else).
Quattro is great and all but the tires are easily the biggest impact. With the all season tires on mine and winter tires on your car, you will beat me every time and I don't care what your car is.
I'm glad that even though Detroit is done making sedans there are still plenty of other brands making good ones.
*By the way, off-lease A4/A5s, Mercedes C-Class, and BMW 3-series tend to be pretty good deals used. They're often fleet vehicles provided to executives as a perk at a bunch of companies on 24 month leases and when they're turned in they're still basically new.
posted by VTX at 2:57 PM on May 17 [4 favorites]
A friend of mine had an 81 Malibu for what seemed like forever. He used to jump it over a steep rise out on Cheese Factory road. We called it Satan's Skateboard.
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:16 PM on May 17 [2 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:16 PM on May 17 [2 favorites]
photo guy I may be mistaken but I don't think Stockholm sees anywhere as much snow as Buffalo does.
You are probably correct in terms of accumulation (I cannot find any data) but there is definitely snow/ice on the roads continuously for several months straight up here. Plus snow removal is not really like the US - salt is never used (thankfully, it's a terrible practice) and actual shoveling can be spotty at best.
I will admit if I was in rural Sweden even I would probably break down and consider a small SUV, but I'm in an urban area. And I think 95% of the US isn't Buffalo. I used to live in Virginia and heard "winter weather" as a constant excuse to buy those hideous lifted pickups. Virginia barely gets winter at all, and virtually never gets snow, it's silly.
posted by photo guy at 11:50 PM on May 17 [3 favorites]
You are probably correct in terms of accumulation (I cannot find any data) but there is definitely snow/ice on the roads continuously for several months straight up here. Plus snow removal is not really like the US - salt is never used (thankfully, it's a terrible practice) and actual shoveling can be spotty at best.
I will admit if I was in rural Sweden even I would probably break down and consider a small SUV, but I'm in an urban area. And I think 95% of the US isn't Buffalo. I used to live in Virginia and heard "winter weather" as a constant excuse to buy those hideous lifted pickups. Virginia barely gets winter at all, and virtually never gets snow, it's silly.
posted by photo guy at 11:50 PM on May 17 [3 favorites]
And I think 95% of the US isn't Buffalo. I used to live in Virginia and heard "winter weather" as a constant excuse to buy those hideous lifted pickups. Virginia barely gets winter at all, and virtually never gets snow, it's silly.I’d argue it’s worse than silly because the people who own those vanity trucks reliably get stuck in bad weather when they get a reminder that being able to accelerate in bad conditions is not the same as being able to turn or stop all of the extra weight.
posted by adamsc at 4:22 AM on May 18 [4 favorites]
We desperately need to change the law that allowed "light trucks" to become suburban tanks and start imposing some serious restrictions. Like a class C driving license to drive one of the stupid fucking things. And maybe a 100% tax on all new sales of SUV's and monster trucks with a really, really, tightly set exception for actual, real, farm/ranch work.
Of course the Republican shrieking that we're trying to ban macho manly trucks to make everyone drive grocery carts would be deafening and keep it from ever happening. No one is even daring to propose it.
posted by sotonohito at 8:26 AM on May 18 [8 favorites]
Of course the Republican shrieking that we're trying to ban macho manly trucks to make everyone drive grocery carts would be deafening and keep it from ever happening. No one is even daring to propose it.
posted by sotonohito at 8:26 AM on May 18 [8 favorites]
We need gasoline to become way more expensive.
No, whenever that happens, people start electing fascists who just make it all worse.
posted by Naberius at 11:42 AM on May 18 [3 favorites]
No, whenever that happens, people start electing fascists who just make it all worse.
posted by Naberius at 11:42 AM on May 18 [3 favorites]
Whatever, my sedan looks manly af*. If you disagree I'm sorry but I can't hear you from up here, your truck is too slow.
*The descriptive words I'd use like sleek, muscular, and powerful are of course not gendered but we're directing this at the macho ding-dongs that don't understand that.
Something I learned selling cars for a number of years is that people make surprisingly irrational decisions about buying cars. I've listened as customers rattled off what they need in a vehicle perfectly describing a use-case for a minivan and then tell me they're here to check out our gigantic three-row SUV. One customer had bought the cool hopped up version of our smallest car 10 months previously and came sliding in one snowy evening. The car came with "R" rated tires that will let you keep control even if you're going 125mph for hours straight which means they basically freeze in the cold and it's like driving on tires made of ice. Instead of taking himself to a tire store and spending maybe $1,500 on a set of winter tires he insisted on trading the car in and buying a Nissan Frontier (the previous gen one that was actually small, so it could have been worse) and since he'd bought the little sedan new he lost a TON of money buying that little pickup. Pour kid is probably still paying for the thing but at least I'm confident that truck is still running even if he doesn't own it anymore.
I could go on all day. It's terrible and I wish there were better incentives to drive people to make more rational and practical decisions about buying cars. I would love, love, LOVE, to see a wagon resurgence. I will happily trade sedans for wagons if that's an option. If I had an S4 Avant I'd keep it forever and you could bury me in it.
posted by VTX at 8:15 AM on May 19 [5 favorites]
*The descriptive words I'd use like sleek, muscular, and powerful are of course not gendered but we're directing this at the macho ding-dongs that don't understand that.
Something I learned selling cars for a number of years is that people make surprisingly irrational decisions about buying cars. I've listened as customers rattled off what they need in a vehicle perfectly describing a use-case for a minivan and then tell me they're here to check out our gigantic three-row SUV
I could go on all day. It's terrible and I wish there were better incentives to drive people to make more rational and practical decisions about buying cars. I would love, love, LOVE, to see a wagon resurgence. I will happily trade sedans for wagons if that's an option. If I had an S4 Avant I'd keep it forever and you could bury me in it.
posted by VTX at 8:15 AM on May 19 [5 favorites]
Just realized Arcimoto went out of biz too. Here I am whining about vehicle sizes, but I didn't want to pull the trigger on a small vehicle purchase just because I wasn't sure they were going to be around long enough.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:16 PM on May 19
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:16 PM on May 19
one of the most in-demand 4WDs in the Australian market? The Suzuki Jimny
These are an awesome car and always have been. They've always bucked the trend to bigger and bigger to the extent that they now look almost ridiculously small compared to everything else on the road. They are, in fact, the perfect size for a huge portion of the car-buying public. My wife has fallen in love with the current model but wrongly believes she's too old to drive a Jimny. I'm not going to stop trying to convince her otherwise until I see one parked in our garage.
I look at all these gigantic vehicles on the road and think wow, people really love forking over a significant chunk of their income to gas companies, don’t they?
Well, they've fallen for the lies of the car companies when they constantly talk about 'improved' fuel efficiency with every new model they bring out. Yes, they are improved over last year's model, but imagine what the fuel figures would be using modern engines and engine management systems with a car that was the size and weight of a car from decades ago? A 2024 Corolla weighs 40% more than a 1969 Corolla, for example.
posted by dg at 4:26 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]
These are an awesome car and always have been. They've always bucked the trend to bigger and bigger to the extent that they now look almost ridiculously small compared to everything else on the road. They are, in fact, the perfect size for a huge portion of the car-buying public. My wife has fallen in love with the current model but wrongly believes she's too old to drive a Jimny. I'm not going to stop trying to convince her otherwise until I see one parked in our garage.
I look at all these gigantic vehicles on the road and think wow, people really love forking over a significant chunk of their income to gas companies, don’t they?
Well, they've fallen for the lies of the car companies when they constantly talk about 'improved' fuel efficiency with every new model they bring out. Yes, they are improved over last year's model, but imagine what the fuel figures would be using modern engines and engine management systems with a car that was the size and weight of a car from decades ago? A 2024 Corolla weighs 40% more than a 1969 Corolla, for example.
posted by dg at 4:26 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]
We need gasoline to become way more expensive
Do not, my friends, become addicted to guzzolene. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:01 PM on May 20 [3 favorites]
Do not, my friends, become addicted to guzzolene. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:01 PM on May 20 [3 favorites]
« Older Chicago photography | The Last of New York City's Original Artist Lofts Newer »
I don't understand the need to have a passenger vehicle that seats at least five also be a large hauling vehicle with a full length truck bed. People don't know how to park them, and they're very much a specialty vehicle. If you're driving one of these to WalMart by yourself to pick up a few things you need for dinner... you're doing it wrong.
Anyway, don't listen to me. I have PTSD from driving and I'm probably spouting nonsense.
posted by hippybear at 2:44 PM on May 16 [55 favorites]