Starve yourself, it's good for your health!

May 6, 2019 8:12 AM

While fasting (which benefits are now backed with science) seems quite manageable to incorporate to our lifestyles, nowadays, more and more influential people are going into extreme practices that just look like pure sadism, questioning the true meaning of life.
posted by sophieJu (55 comments total)

I'm all for anything that brings more misery to Jack Dorsey's life.
posted by SonInLawOfSam at 8:15 AM on May 6, 2019 [56 favorites]

This seems like it explains a lot about Twitter, actually.
posted by Naberius at 8:20 AM on May 6, 2019 [5 favorites]

This reminds of the ways that rich and powerful Stoics in the Roman Empire would do things like sleep on boards so they could pretend they didn't really care about wealth or power and thus were the right people to wield it.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 8:29 AM on May 6, 2019 [25 favorites]

Please stop believing the things that famous people say without proof.
posted by srboisvert at 8:33 AM on May 6, 2019 [10 favorites]

@Greg Nog: I thought the same thing lol, the end could have been better. I think what she meant is that Dorsey motivation to have this extreme lifestyle is to be 1000% efficient with his work, sacrificing all life pleasures, which apparently (??) is what Japanese are doing. But yeah, not the smoothest transition!
posted by sophieJu at 8:34 AM on May 6, 2019

If Dorsey wants to really push himself and get someone to scourge him, old-school style, I volunteer. I'll even bring the flail.
posted by aramaic at 8:46 AM on May 6, 2019 [5 favorites]

Dorsey motivation to have this extreme lifestyle is to be 1000% efficient with his work

increasing efficiency without increasing output quality just makes you suck faster, jack
posted by murphy slaw at 9:09 AM on May 6, 2019 [26 favorites]

(i know we're supposed to use this time to hate on jack, but can i say that i really appreciate the harvard post about IF? the information about the timing of the fast--doing it in the morning being more effective--is something i hadn't heard before, and as someone who has tried alternate-day fasting in the past but found it unsustainable and kinda sad, this idea of just eating in the morning and then not eating the rest of the day is pretty interesting!)
posted by mittens at 9:11 AM on May 6, 2019 [15 favorites]

I belive the Dorsey stuff cause Pod Damn America had an episode on the founding and early days of twitter and Jack liked to do stuff like leave paper cranes on the desk of the sole female employee spelling out her name and charge 100$ on eBay to read Goodnight Moon to someone over the phone or establish a room at the office just for listening to Radiohead in.
posted by The Whelk at 9:17 AM on May 6, 2019 [4 favorites]

@mittens, I agree, I liked this info too. makes IF look much more manageable (even though I love dinner time)
posted by sophieJu at 9:21 AM on May 6, 2019

In mice.
posted by The Violet Cypher at 9:32 AM on May 6, 2019 [11 favorites]

or establish a room at the office just for listening to Radiohead in.

Wait, just for that? Could I attend my next conference call in the Radiohead room? I’d keep the music on, it’s ok.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:33 AM on May 6, 2019 [2 favorites]

In a post scarcity economy "What are you doing to feel something, anything, even the least bit of meaningful sensation?" will be a common conversational topic.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:35 AM on May 6, 2019 [12 favorites]

Despite what I said above, though, I don't think this is so much about a need to feel something as a terrifying and debilitating fear of aging and death. It must destroy these people knowing that like the rest of us they are going to die, and probably before they die bits of their bodies won't work like want them to. When you can control everything else in your world to an insane degree, that must cut especially deep. Especially the being like everyone else in dying thing.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:45 AM on May 6, 2019 [19 favorites]

I wish there was more distinction in these articles and literature between IF as a weight loss method (i.e., coupled with some kind of calorie restriction), and as a generally healthy practice, if it is such a thing. I've tried it as the latter, noticed some benefits, but fell off the wagon as getting enough food within the eating window to prevent weight loss was becoming difficult.
posted by Jobst at 9:47 AM on May 6, 2019 [2 favorites]

We need to tax the wealthy at a higher rate not just for our society's sake, but apparently because it makes them do shit like this.
posted by emjaybee at 9:49 AM on May 6, 2019 [9 favorites]

I once went to an ashtanga yoga class without breakfast (and not having eaten much the night before) and though I was cursing in the middle by the end of it I felt amazing. Charged, clear headed, spiritual. So yeah I believe he’s on an ascetic high. It’s great if you can keep it up.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:54 AM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

Frankly, by the way Dorsey runs Twitter, I don't think he's charged and clear-headed at all. The man needs to eat, so he can actually function and do his damn job.
posted by SansPoint at 10:02 AM on May 6, 2019 [12 favorites]

What's astounding to me how is how bad he (and Zuckerberg, who I assume is doing something along the same lines) looks. You think at some point you'd glance in a mirror and go, "Hey, I do not look the picture of well-being here."

But, yeah, anything not to slide into oblivion like the rest of us. A great ox costs a penny in Hades, Jack.
posted by praemunire at 10:03 AM on May 6, 2019 [5 favorites]

The new robber barons having already defeated taxes are now well on their way of trying to defeat death
posted by The Whelk at 10:05 AM on May 6, 2019 [8 favorites]

Frankly, by the way Dorsey runs Twitter, I don't think he's charged and clear-headed at all. The man needs to eat, so he can actually function and do his damn job.

These days I have trouble eating enough during the day because I just don't feel hungry, and the thing that tipped me off that it was an actual issue was not any physical symptom, it was my mental state. "Why am I so unfocused and dazed and snappy? Oh, wait, maybe I ought to be eating food, y'know, like humans do, to live." (I do often just go yes breakfast/no lunch/yes dinner though, which works OK.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:07 AM on May 6, 2019 [4 favorites]

The new robber barons having already defeated taxes are now well on their way of trying to defeat death

Yeah, the word "transhumanism" didn't come up in these articles but the whole fasting thing feels very much of a piece with it. When you're rich enough to have and control anything you want, the last frontier of power is apparently attempting to replace your fragile, uncontrollable, doomed human body with another thing.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:10 AM on May 6, 2019 [11 favorites]

The new robber barons having already defeated taxes are now well on their way of trying to defeat death

i would overnight a memento mori to every CEO in the valley if i didn't think that sending rich and powerful people human skulls in the mail might be misinterpreted
posted by murphy slaw at 10:11 AM on May 6, 2019 [16 favorites]

they'll just think "ah, my weekly SkullBox delivery is here"

those SV types are big on subscription boxes
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:15 AM on May 6, 2019 [20 favorites]

I mean, these guys are basically all only a few years away from Howard Hughes.

Elon Musk's submarine may turn out to be his Spruce Goose.
posted by praemunire at 10:31 AM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

Surprised no one has brought up the anorexic or orthorexic angle to this. Imagine a 19 woman saying the same things about only eating fish and vegetables and spending her weekends sipping water. The man's behaviour is very concerning.
posted by Braeburn at 10:36 AM on May 6, 2019 [35 favorites]

Walks 5 miles to work? Meditates for 2 hours a day? This is just conspicuous consumption revised for the present day where having free time is a bigger indicator of wealth than actual wealth.
posted by Hutch at 10:44 AM on May 6, 2019 [45 favorites]

Shit like this is why I tend to bristle when people start having detailed discussions of diet and intermittent fasting and trendy fads like keto and paleo and green smoothies and cleanses in tech workplace chat. There's just as much mysticism circulating in the name of "science" as there is in the name of religion, and when you're at the top, you won't have nearly enough people who are gonna call you on that stuff or rage-quit your Slack channel about it when it gets too nonsensical.

Like I've said before, I really think there's something to the fact that a lot of techy folks I know have gone with either transhumanism or evangelical Christianity as their way to channel that fear of what happens when we die. See previously.
posted by limeonaire at 10:58 AM on May 6, 2019 [8 favorites]

Silicon Valley is rebranding eating disorders:

Dorsey explained that he does “a 22 hour fast daily (dinner only), and recently did a 3 day water fast”. The billionaire added that the biggest thing he had noticed after depriving himself of food was “how much time slows down. The day feels so much longer when not broken up by breakfast/lunch/dinner. Any one [sic] else have this experience?”

I have! I’ve had lots of experience with the various side effects of fasting because I did it a ton as a teenager: it was called “anorexia”. And it wasn’t fun. It wrecked my health and took me years to recover.

posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:02 AM on May 6, 2019 [32 favorites]

Bro-rexia, one might even call it.
posted by bonehead at 11:03 AM on May 6, 2019 [12 favorites]

Yep. A lot of people don't recognize anorexic behavior in men as readily because many people believe it's primarily a women's disorder. Why do they believe that? Because patriarchy hurts everyone. This makes me think yet again of the way that my father continued to worry about his weight even when his body was disintegrating into total immobility.
posted by limeonaire at 11:10 AM on May 6, 2019 [8 favorites]

The man needs to eat, so he can actually function and do his damn job.

counterpoint: Let Him Perish
posted by poffin boffin at 11:16 AM on May 6, 2019 [36 favorites]

since no one's pointing out the coincidence that this FPP is on the first of Ramadan, I will. no ice baths for me, thanks.
posted by cendawanita at 11:23 AM on May 6, 2019 [11 favorites]

Yes, if he was a woman he’d be labelled as anorexic or orthorexic. He’s clearly unwell which is either the reason for his disorder or the result of his disorder or probably a bit of both.
posted by cilantro at 11:39 AM on May 6, 2019 [2 favorites]

@mittens yeah I found that interesting too. Just naturally I prefer to have a small breakfast, a larger lunch and then skip dinner. But... family life. The kid needs to eat dinner, we all converge at home at the same time, dinner is prepared, family dinner is had, etc.... So I usually wind up doing it backwards with a small breakfast and small lunch and then a larger dinner.

Anyway, fuck @jack, he's awful regardless of what he does or does not eat. Though I would like to point out that twice daily hour meditation sessions is not that weird for a dedicated practitioner who has free time. The ice baths though, that's nuts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:04 PM on May 6, 2019

This is the least problematic thing about Jack Dorsey. Everything about this article is weirder to me than what's being described. Millions of people live like this by choice and always have.

"some people are determined to shame the rest of us...
Their lifestyle sounds thoroughly depressing...I call it “the philosophy of misery”."

'Rich guy thinks he's better than me, acting like monk or something. Monks and their practices are stupid. He's obviously doing it wrong and will never be happy, just to make me feel bad. Actor is dumb too. Young Japanese people can't get laid, losers.'
posted by bongo_x at 12:07 PM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

poffin boffin: I must say, you do make a good point.
posted by SansPoint at 12:11 PM on May 6, 2019

I don't mind if rich people try that sort of thing. It's like a preliminary study. Maybe something that's good for people will shake out of it.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 12:23 PM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

poffin boffin: thank you, i needed a lung clearing bout of coughing laughter today
posted by kokaku at 1:09 PM on May 6, 2019

'Rich guy thinks he's better than me, acting like monk or something. Monks and their practices are stupid.

The actually most depressing part about all this is that this quest for "perfection" is totally orthogonal to anything recognizable as any form of human virtue or righteousness. Monks literally fast to separate themselves from the ephemeral things of this world and to get closer to God. It's fairly obvious from the rest of his conduct that these are not concerns of Dorsey's; he just wants the stock price to increase a few pennies. What a perversion of human endeavor.
posted by praemunire at 1:12 PM on May 6, 2019 [10 favorites]

I think the podcast Science Vs. did an okay job at separating the actual science of IF from the essentially mystical beliefs out there (sometimes perpetuated by people who have been to medical school) that it will make people better at thinking or live forever.
posted by Selena777 at 1:12 PM on May 6, 2019

I have! I’ve had lots of experience with the various side effects of fasting because I did it a ton as a teenager: it was called “anorexia”. And it wasn’t fun. It wrecked my health and took me years to recover.

Not everyone who starves themselves is anorexic any more than everyone who binge drinks is alcoholic. The primary visible difference is the ability to walk away if you choose to.

Let’s not confuse someone’s ridiculous life choices with a crippling disease.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:01 PM on May 6, 2019 [4 favorites]

Let’s not confuse someone’s ridiculous life choices with a crippling disease

Indeed. I'd go as far to say that it's not that ridiculous. Intermittent fasting, which is not the same as starvation diet btw (multiple people including the title of this FPP have equated them as such for some reason) is not as radical as it sounds. Details vary but diverse group of people practice it : Muslims do it for entire month ouf of the year, same with a few others doing it for religious reasons. There are anthropological reason from the simple fact that our ancestors did not have food at the tip of their fingers and they went through periods of feast and famine. Some keto folks graduate to one meal a day from the simple virtue that their insulin response is stable and although they feel hungry, they do not *need* to eat so often and they're not ravenous.

And even if indeed the life choices are ridiculous - why the level of vitriol displayed by some? The people that practice them find it's helpful to them. Placebo? Could be. But the important points are: Do they force others to adopt it? Do they harm others? No? Then - what is it to you?
posted by 7life at 4:06 PM on May 6, 2019 [6 favorites]

While IF has some benefit, what homeboy is doing is downright dangerous.

...which is EXACTLY why the last thing we need is these rich white techbros trying to 'biohack' our healthcare system.

Also: can't wait to see how this affects productivity when people start passing out at work.
posted by floweredfish at 4:20 PM on May 6, 2019 [5 favorites]

what is it to you?

for me it's mostly that the media keep running puff pieces about how much Jack's not eating these days instead of holding him to account for his complete failure to appropriately moderate his multimillion-dollar public forum, which has placed threats and burdens on already marginalized people, and has provided a vigorous growth medium for online fascists and other hate groups.

you'd think that with two hours of insight meditation a day he might have a clearer view of the effects of his choices on other people, but i suppose for some people, their own navel is an infinite source of wonder.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:21 PM on May 6, 2019 [9 favorites]

or establish a room at the office just for listening to Radiohead in.

A job that slowly kills you, bruises that won't heal
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:49 PM on May 6, 2019 [7 favorites]

sophieJu: " extreme practices that just look like pure sadism"

Am I misunderstanding what's going on in the article? These all sound like masochism, not sadism. Are they trying to get other people to follow their own practices or something?
posted by Bugbread at 5:53 PM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

If you think they're not judging other people for not making the same wondrous choices as them, you're terribly naive.
posted by praemunire at 9:40 PM on May 6, 2019

I suspect the real secret here is that Jack has nothing worthwhile to do all day.

Twitter is what it is, it has no purpose and any change you make to it makes it worse.
Eventually it'll evaporate all on its own as the new new thing captures hearts and minds.

I am Jack's existential despair.
posted by nickzoic at 9:58 PM on May 6, 2019 [3 favorites]

praemunire: "If you think they're not judging other people for not making the same wondrous choices as them, you're terribly naive."

Well, of course, but that's not sadism.
posted by Bugbread at 10:17 PM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

I suspect the real secret here is that Jack has nothing worthwhile to do all day.

This thread has me pondering the search for meaning versus Maslow’s pyramid. Not where the search for meaning fits on it but rather how much fulfillment meeting the needs at each level gives.

I think it’s an inverse connection. There is nothing so deeply satisfying as eating when you’re starving or finding shelter when you’re freezing. Making yourself safe, finding love, these are important but maybe less so. When you get up to esteem and self-actualization — well, they’re meaningful but in a quiet sort of way. There’s no burning thirst like, well, a burning thirst produces.

Anyway, just muttering.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:26 PM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

"If you think they're not judging other people for not making the same wondrous choices as them, you're terribly naive."

People that I don't know, who don't know me, judging me in the abstract without my knowledge has very little bite.
posted by bongo_x at 2:11 AM on May 7, 2019

I mean I kinda have to eat and live like a monk because of a stress-related endocrine disorder but somehow it helps me feel more pleasure elsewhere...
posted by Young Kullervo at 8:09 AM on May 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

greg nog is bad
posted by poffin boffin at 8:49 AM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]

actual stifled chortles at bongo_x and lesbiassparrow -- so apt

i don't think this article is best of the web tbh

as someone [very slowly] stumbling toward the ordination path, i see this hot new trend of powerful people trying to cop a little asceticism as being of a piece with other kings and powerful people that have flirted with aspects of of the eightfold path since jeta grove times

people wiser and kinder than i have pointed out the supreme danger of cultivating wisdom without compassion and i will leave it at that. we seem to be noticing that wealth and power are deleterious to compassion.
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 11:07 AM on May 9, 2019 [1 favorite]