We Like Trains
December 21, 2023 7:14 AM Subscribe
Trimming With the Devil in Green Bay wherein the Satanic Temple causes a free speech brouhaha at the National Railroad Museum by trimming a Christmas tree perfectly within the museum guidelines
Amid the tumult — embedded within a wider social context of ideologues on the left and right scrambling to place controls on public libraries and social media — museum CEO Jacqueline Frank stepped up to provide the voice of reason. Not only did she adamantly refuse to remove the tree under pressure from church groups and politicians, but she promised to hold the institution’s line in Christmases Yet to Come. As long as the TST followed the guidelines, she told the Green Bay Press-Gazette, she would not set the dangerous precedent of deciding which group can sponsor a tree and which cannot. Should the Satanists care to decorate another tree next year, she added, they would be welcomed back.
“We’re a non-denominational museum,” Frank said. “We like trains.”
Amid the tumult — embedded within a wider social context of ideologues on the left and right scrambling to place controls on public libraries and social media — museum CEO Jacqueline Frank stepped up to provide the voice of reason. Not only did she adamantly refuse to remove the tree under pressure from church groups and politicians, but she promised to hold the institution’s line in Christmases Yet to Come. As long as the TST followed the guidelines, she told the Green Bay Press-Gazette, she would not set the dangerous precedent of deciding which group can sponsor a tree and which cannot. Should the Satanists care to decorate another tree next year, she added, they would be welcomed back.
“We’re a non-denominational museum,” Frank said. “We like trains.”
Meanwhile, over in Iowa.
The Satanic Temple is doing great work.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:29 AM on December 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
The Satanic Temple is doing great work.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:29 AM on December 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
The Satanic Temple of Wisconsin is one of 66 organizations participating in the Festival of Trees event
Couldn't they find 600 more?
posted by uncleozzy at 7:32 AM on December 21, 2023 [36 favorites]
Couldn't they find 600 more?
posted by uncleozzy at 7:32 AM on December 21, 2023 [36 favorites]
I am not particularly a lover of trains, but I am here for my fellow Jacqu*l*n* and her mission focus. Way to be reasonable, fellow Jacqu*l*n*!
posted by jacquilynne at 7:35 AM on December 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 7:35 AM on December 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
Excellent train-focused response from the museum.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:37 AM on December 21, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 7:37 AM on December 21, 2023 [23 favorites]
"Trains" is an anagram of "Satan" as well as "Santa" so we're all good here.
posted by chavenet at 7:37 AM on December 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 7:37 AM on December 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
I think "trains" is an anagram for satin(r) so all hail the prom gown.
But for reals, Satan and Krampus are for sure buddies. Lucifer has been there all along!
posted by fiercekitten at 7:55 AM on December 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
But for reals, Satan and Krampus are for sure buddies. Lucifer has been there all along!
posted by fiercekitten at 7:55 AM on December 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
Lol the picture of Baphomet is wearing a Santa hat.
posted by td2x10e3 at 7:57 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by td2x10e3 at 7:57 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
I am not particularly a lover of trains
oh so you're that one person I keep hearing about
posted by elkevelvet at 7:59 AM on December 21, 2023 [17 favorites]
oh so you're that one person I keep hearing about
posted by elkevelvet at 7:59 AM on December 21, 2023 [17 favorites]
[balances upturned palms back and forth]
On the one hand, good for that train museum. On the other, "Truthdig"? I mean, that's a "Common Dreams" level of trash media. We'd all hiss like cats were Breitbart to be quoted here, but these pseudo-lefty trash media sites are hardly better.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:03 AM on December 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
On the one hand, good for that train museum. On the other, "Truthdig"? I mean, that's a "Common Dreams" level of trash media. We'd all hiss like cats were Breitbart to be quoted here, but these pseudo-lefty trash media sites are hardly better.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:03 AM on December 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
And no one paused to question the abrahamic religions’ (Christian or Satanist) defacement of Nordic religions’ holiday symbol, a (plastic) Yule (for)evergreen? Some real horizontal hostility there…
posted by rubatan at 8:15 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by rubatan at 8:15 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
> On the other, "Truthdig"? I mean, that's a "Common Dreams" level of trash media.
Indeed.
(1) I mean yeah, I'm sure there's some asshat on the Bird Site or some blog comments section who claims to be "left" and also wants to police reading lists, but trotting out examples like that is called "nutpicking" where I come from.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:20 AM on December 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
Indeed.
Amid the tumult — embedded within a wider social context of ideologues on the left and right scrambling to place controls on public libraries and social media —The gratuitous, utterly baseless(1) bothsidesing there took my breath away and I wanted to leave a comment demanding a cite, but that would have meant making an account there...
(1) I mean yeah, I'm sure there's some asshat on the Bird Site or some blog comments section who claims to be "left" and also wants to police reading lists, but trotting out examples like that is called "nutpicking" where I come from.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:20 AM on December 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
They're having a melt-down over one wee sparkly tree, but this didn't bother them??
There's been no decorations here yet, but now I want a tree! Things are going to get festive, mother f***ers!
posted by BlueHorse at 8:28 AM on December 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
There's been no decorations here yet, but now I want a tree! Things are going to get festive, mother f***ers!
posted by BlueHorse at 8:28 AM on December 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
Jacqueline Frank is my new hero.
posted by Paul Slade at 8:28 AM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 8:28 AM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Satanic Temple is doing great work.
You could even say they are doing God’s work!
posted by TedW at 8:31 AM on December 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
You could even say they are doing God’s work!
posted by TedW at 8:31 AM on December 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
Rep. Mike Gallagher (R, like you needed to ask): "It’s impossible to overstate how offensive this is to Christians,”
Well since the tree tradition isn't originally a Christian one, Mike, then yes it's very possible to overstate its offensiveness to Christians.
Anyway, good on the museum. I very much like trains too.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:46 AM on December 21, 2023 [16 favorites]
Well since the tree tradition isn't originally a Christian one, Mike, then yes it's very possible to overstate its offensiveness to Christians.
Anyway, good on the museum. I very much like trains too.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:46 AM on December 21, 2023 [16 favorites]
I find it delightful that the Satanic Temple has branched out (heh) into this kind of subtle trolling. I can't keep track of which subdenominations are the problematic ones, and I really wish they'd put their own house in order, but it's hard to argue with their results.
I also find it delightful that the Satanists are my go-to example when asked to define "chaotic good."
posted by Mayor West at 8:55 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
I also find it delightful that the Satanists are my go-to example when asked to define "chaotic good."
posted by Mayor West at 8:55 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Rep. Mike Gallagher (R, like you needed to ask): "It’s impossible to overstate how offensive this is to Christians,”
Well, Mike, why don't we find a Christian and ask them?
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:57 AM on December 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
Well, Mike, why don't we find a Christian and ask them?
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:57 AM on December 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
I am a Catholic and supposedly should be OUTRAGED, but instead I am just DELIGHTED by these folks.
(Last spring I actually heard a priest inveighing against them, and warning the congregation that they would be breaking in to churches to steal communion wafers in order to perform black masses. My eyes rolled so hard that my wife had to drive us home. What a dope.)
posted by wenestvedt at 9:00 AM on December 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
(Last spring I actually heard a priest inveighing against them, and warning the congregation that they would be breaking in to churches to steal communion wafers in order to perform black masses. My eyes rolled so hard that my wife had to drive us home. What a dope.)
posted by wenestvedt at 9:00 AM on December 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
I for one am sure that if Big J was to come back, he'd find *far* more things to be outraged at than this.
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:06 AM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:06 AM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Christmas trees aren’t a sacred religious symbol for Christians. We co-opted the concept at some point in history. Sure, I don’t like the imagery and references that Satanism plays on from Christianity, but it’s their right to co-opt the concepts. It’s too bad most Christians are bothered by this. It’s yet another opportunity to learn from the folks who have different beliefs and are critical of the Christian religion.
posted by WorkshopGuyPNW at 9:06 AM on December 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by WorkshopGuyPNW at 9:06 AM on December 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
(Last spring I actually heard a priest inveighing against them, and warning the congregation that they would be breaking in to churches to steal communion wafers in order to perform black masses. My eyes rolled so hard that my wife had to drive us home. What a dope.)
Does... Does he know you can buy them by the hundreds from Amazon? Someone sent me a 500 pack last summer, although nobody fessed up to it.
posted by Kyol at 9:20 AM on December 21, 2023 [16 favorites]
Does... Does he know you can buy them by the hundreds from Amazon? Someone sent me a 500 pack last summer, although nobody fessed up to it.
posted by Kyol at 9:20 AM on December 21, 2023 [16 favorites]
It's too bad most Christians are bothered by this.
Is that even true though?
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:32 AM on December 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
Is that even true though?
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:32 AM on December 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
It’s a charming tree, but I’m conflicted about this. Usually TST does these stunts to put pressure on local governments and school boards that are privileging Christian groups. But this time the crosshairs will land on the admins of a museum who have not done that, and appear to be reasonable and tolerant. Those are the people who are now in the center of a maelstrom, maybe even receiving threats from the more unhinged members of their community because they are defending tolerance.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:38 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:38 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
From the Green Bay Press Gazette article linked above by heyitsgogi:
"Only one tree had an element flagged by the museum because it had the appearance of drug paraphernalia when, in reality, it was road salt. That organization shifted gears to make sure it was promoting road safety and not a highly addictive stimulant."
posted by Naberius at 9:42 AM on December 21, 2023 [14 favorites]
"Only one tree had an element flagged by the museum because it had the appearance of drug paraphernalia when, in reality, it was road salt. That organization shifted gears to make sure it was promoting road safety and not a highly addictive stimulant."
posted by Naberius at 9:42 AM on December 21, 2023 [14 favorites]
Those are the people who are now in the center of a maelstrom, maybe even receiving threats from the more unhinged members of their community because they are defending tolerance.
Then they can just not have a Christmas tree exhibition.
posted by LionIndex at 9:42 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Then they can just not have a Christmas tree exhibition.
posted by LionIndex at 9:42 AM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Those are the people who are now in the center of a maelstrom, maybe even receiving threats from the more unhinged members of their community because they are defending tolerance.
Its a fundraiser. ST paid (probably a decent chunk of money) to put up the tree, and as a bonus they get to demonstrate and promote tolerance and inclusion. Let's not gatekeep ST from supporting good charitable causes simply because someone might be offended that they made their donation.
They get to participate fully in civic life. That's the whole point.
posted by anastasiav at 9:43 AM on December 21, 2023 [41 favorites]
Its a fundraiser. ST paid (probably a decent chunk of money) to put up the tree, and as a bonus they get to demonstrate and promote tolerance and inclusion. Let's not gatekeep ST from supporting good charitable causes simply because someone might be offended that they made their donation.
They get to participate fully in civic life. That's the whole point.
posted by anastasiav at 9:43 AM on December 21, 2023 [41 favorites]
It’s impossible to overstate how offensive this is to Christians
Oh I dunno, Mike, you seem to have managed it OK.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:55 AM on December 21, 2023 [13 favorites]
Oh I dunno, Mike, you seem to have managed it OK.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:55 AM on December 21, 2023 [13 favorites]
…they would be breaking in to churches to steal communion wafers in order to perform black masses.
Does he know you can buy them by the hundreds from Amazon?
I wonder if the priest was concerned about reserved sacrament, which you can’t buy. Of course, he was still being paranoid about it.
posted by TedW at 9:57 AM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Does he know you can buy them by the hundreds from Amazon?
I wonder if the priest was concerned about reserved sacrament, which you can’t buy. Of course, he was still being paranoid about it.
posted by TedW at 9:57 AM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Artful Codger and Faint of Butt posted on Gallagher's statement about the tree being offensive to Christians quite justly.
“It would be, in quite a literal sense, the same thing as waving a Hamas flag inside of a synagogue.”
Is a train museum considered to be a house of worship?
Is trainspotting a religion? IDK
posted by BlueHorse at 10:24 AM on December 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
“It would be, in quite a literal sense, the same thing as waving a Hamas flag inside of a synagogue.”
Is a train museum considered to be a house of worship?
Is trainspotting a religion? IDK
posted by BlueHorse at 10:24 AM on December 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
wait til they see the Hamas tree
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:32 AM on December 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:32 AM on December 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
I assume the wafers have to be consecrated to be effectual in black rites, where desecration of the sacred is an essential element.I wonder if the priest was concerned about reserved sacrament, which you can’t buy. Of course, he was still being paranoid about it.…they would be breaking in to churches to steal communion wafers in order to perform black masses.Does he know you can buy them by the hundreds from Amazon?
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 10:42 AM on December 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Its a fundraiser. ST paid (probably a decent chunk of money) to put up the tree, and as a bonus they get to demonstrate and promote tolerance and inclusion.
From the excellent article linked above by heyitsgogi, National Railroad Museum supports Satanic Temple's entry in Festival of Trees display, Natalie Eilbert, Green Bay Press-Gazette:
posted by kristi at 10:55 AM on December 21, 2023 [25 favorites]
From the excellent article linked above by heyitsgogi, National Railroad Museum supports Satanic Temple's entry in Festival of Trees display, Natalie Eilbert, Green Bay Press-Gazette:
Each organization that participates sponsors a tree that costs anywhere from $75 to $150 and they can decorate it however they see fit, so long as the museum isn't promoting violence, sexual content, and alcohol and drugs, Frank said.Two other great excerpts:
While the sight of a red, glowering tree with ornaments like "Hail Santa" might seem controversial to some, The Festival of Trees opened on Nov. 15 to about 250 people and no comments. Only Tuesday morning could Frank count on one hand the number of calls she's received from people in the community who were upset about the tree's presence, the result of a social media post's call to action.and
One tree, decorated by the Bay Area Council of Gender Diversity in pastel pinks and blues, the colors associated with the trans flag, offered powerful words of affirmation to visitors.This is altogether a great story and a heartwarming addition to my holiday season. I am grateful to the fine folks at the National Railroad Museum, and I thank you, condesita, for sharing this with us!
White, blue and pink ornaments read, "I'm still learning to love the bits of me that I was told were ugly," "Don't become a prisoner to things you cannot change" and "I love my trans daughter."
Complaints over this tree came only in tandem with the complaints over The Satanic Temple's tree, which began Tuesday morning.
Soul Purpose, a Green Bay arts collaboration, used old CDs to create a technicolor tree at the National Railroad Museum's Festival of Trees in Ashwaubenon.
On the other hand, The National Railroad Museum has also received positive messages about the round of trees in this year's exhibition. Frank got a call earlier on Tuesday to express appreciation for the diversity of trees present this year.
Others have responded by becoming members of the National Railroad Museum.
posted by kristi at 10:55 AM on December 21, 2023 [25 favorites]
Satanism is continuation of Patriarchy by other means.
It’s not anti-Christian in the slightest, it’s the culmination and completion of Christianity masquerading as paganism, and is designed to capture and neutralize the energies which could threaten Christianity or any other of the Patriarchal Abrahamic religions.
posted by jamjam at 10:59 AM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
It’s not anti-Christian in the slightest, it’s the culmination and completion of Christianity masquerading as paganism, and is designed to capture and neutralize the energies which could threaten Christianity or any other of the Patriarchal Abrahamic religions.
posted by jamjam at 10:59 AM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Red LED christmas lights do seem to have a satanic or vampyric vibe these days. Out here in the suburbs we have a few houses that are decked out in fairly sinister-looking white and red and yet they are (presumably?) not satanists.
posted by anhedonic at 11:00 AM on December 21, 2023
posted by anhedonic at 11:00 AM on December 21, 2023
Thank you so much for this post, condesita, it has brightened my day immensely.
Idle question: so just how do you yourself pronounce condesita?
posted by y2karl at 11:10 AM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Idle question: so just how do you yourself pronounce condesita?
posted by y2karl at 11:10 AM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Is a train museum considered to be a house of worship?
Is trainspotting a religion?
Um, umm... (thinking back to the quite decent train museum in St Thomas ON, or an amazing 3 hours spent at the Cité du Train museum in France...)
... maybe? But if it is, it's one that's orthogonal to the usual suspects.
posted by Artful Codger at 11:31 AM on December 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is trainspotting a religion?
Um, umm... (thinking back to the quite decent train museum in St Thomas ON, or an amazing 3 hours spent at the Cité du Train museum in France...)
... maybe? But if it is, it's one that's orthogonal to the usual suspects.
posted by Artful Codger at 11:31 AM on December 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Satanism is continuation of Patriarchy by other means…
Satanism as practiced by the Satanic Temple is a mixture of secular humanism and applied trolling. It bears only a (deliberate) cosmetic similarity to any dictionary definition of Satanism.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:43 AM on December 21, 2023 [24 favorites]
Satanism as practiced by the Satanic Temple is a mixture of secular humanism and applied trolling. It bears only a (deliberate) cosmetic similarity to any dictionary definition of Satanism.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:43 AM on December 21, 2023 [24 favorites]
It’s this generations retooling of The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, subbing in the early 2000’s internet discussion board zany iconography with classic depictions of the devil from early Christian art and mythology. Something you can belong to without putting a pasta strainer on your head.
posted by dr_dank at 12:20 PM on December 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 12:20 PM on December 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Idle question: so just how do you yourself pronounce condesita?
Diminutive of Spanish condesa - kōn-dā-sē-tə
Not an actual one irl, merely a term of endearment
posted by condesita at 12:22 PM on December 21, 2023
Diminutive of Spanish condesa - kōn-dā-sē-tə
Not an actual one irl, merely a term of endearment
posted by condesita at 12:22 PM on December 21, 2023
This seems pretty harmless, especially considering the tree's nature, but I'm not a fan of most of this group's work (like the Baphomet statue stuff). Free speech, sure, but "being dicks because it's technically legal and we want to provoke people on social media and prove .... unclear thing" is dumb. Especially when the religion doing it is somewhere between "Jedi" and "flat earth society" in the ranking of dumb made-up religions. I say this as an atheist with a lot of personal reasons to dislike Christianity. This kind of stunt is just more teen-boy-mentality trolling to divide people unnecessarily.
posted by caviar2d2 at 12:23 PM on December 21, 2023
posted by caviar2d2 at 12:23 PM on December 21, 2023
The national railroad museum is utterly terrific. I took my teen daughters there this summer and they wondered for hours. This only makes me love it more. What a lovely even handed way to deal with it. "We're a non denominational museum" is one of the funniest damned things I've read in a long long time.
So that makes 2 utterly fantastic world class museums in green bay (the other is the auto gallery)
posted by chasles at 12:46 PM on December 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
So that makes 2 utterly fantastic world class museums in green bay (the other is the auto gallery)
posted by chasles at 12:46 PM on December 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
If I feared satanic fascism was taking over the country and forcing it's cruel beliefs on the unwilling, I wouldn't really mind some cheeky christians 'being dicks' to them.
If you let hypocrisy stand, it becomes the de facto rule.
posted by adept256 at 12:48 PM on December 21, 2023 [16 favorites]
If you let hypocrisy stand, it becomes the de facto rule.
posted by adept256 at 12:48 PM on December 21, 2023 [16 favorites]
This kind of stunt is just more teen-boy-mentality trolling to divide people unnecessarily.
As opposed to contemporary Evangelical Christianity, as practiced widely in the US. We of course don't hear about them very much, but they're heavily grounded in Biblical fluency and literalism, take great pains to separate religion from government, and above all take a careful and respectful stance toward outgroups (especially those with little social power).
posted by Mayor West at 12:49 PM on December 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
As opposed to contemporary Evangelical Christianity, as practiced widely in the US. We of course don't hear about them very much, but they're heavily grounded in Biblical fluency and literalism, take great pains to separate religion from government, and above all take a careful and respectful stance toward outgroups (especially those with little social power).
posted by Mayor West at 12:49 PM on December 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
the organization's mission is "to encourage benevolence and empathy, reject tyrannical authority, advocate practical common sense, oppose injustice, and undertake noble pursuits."
Is Mefi still looking for a mission statement?
posted by zompist at 1:26 PM on December 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
Is Mefi still looking for a mission statement?
posted by zompist at 1:26 PM on December 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
The Satantic Temple people are most certainly NOT dicks! They are always respectful, and we have freedom of religion in this country. I fail to see how them putting up a tree they want is at all being rude. (Rude...try Westboro Baptist)
Check it out:
The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.
THE SATANIC TEMPLE
We have publicly confronted hate groups, fought for the abolition of corporal punishment in public schools, applied for equal representation when religious installations are placed on public property, provided religious exemption and legal protection against laws that unscientifically restrict people's reproductive autonomy, exposed harmful pseudo-scientific practitioners in mental health care, organized clubs alongside other religious after-school clubs in schools besieged by proselytizing organizations, and engaged in other advocacy in accordance with our tenets.
Yeah, sure. They sound like toooootal dicks.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:29 PM on December 21, 2023 [25 favorites]
Check it out:
The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.
THE SATANIC TEMPLE
We have publicly confronted hate groups, fought for the abolition of corporal punishment in public schools, applied for equal representation when religious installations are placed on public property, provided religious exemption and legal protection against laws that unscientifically restrict people's reproductive autonomy, exposed harmful pseudo-scientific practitioners in mental health care, organized clubs alongside other religious after-school clubs in schools besieged by proselytizing organizations, and engaged in other advocacy in accordance with our tenets.
Yeah, sure. They sound like toooootal dicks.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:29 PM on December 21, 2023 [25 favorites]
Rep. Mike Gallagher (R-WI), chairman of the House Select Committee on China, went completely off the rails, if you’ll forgive the low-hanging pun, by holding press conferences and going on Fox News to denounce the devil tree. “It’s impossible to overstate how offensive this is to Christians,” he said. “It would be, in quite a literal sense, the same thing as waving a Hamas flag inside of a synagogue.”
Some of us have snarked about how dumb this is, how the National Railroad Museum isn't a church, last anyone checked. Which is fine.
But of course the way you make sense of this is: "America is a Christian nation!" Meaning any and every square inch of it may be considered sacred Christian ground, by the Christian nationalists, when that's convenient to play the fake affront game. (We should make "playing the persecuted Christian card" a thing.)
I think the subtext of what he's saying is: "Religious freedom" means We, the Real Americans, will tolerate some specific little religions (like Islam and Judaism), we'll let them have their little sacred places. But the whole nation is Christianity's sacred place, and it's an affront to us to be reminded that The Satanic Temple exists here, at all.
posted by Western Infidels at 2:07 PM on December 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
Some of us have snarked about how dumb this is, how the National Railroad Museum isn't a church, last anyone checked. Which is fine.
But of course the way you make sense of this is: "America is a Christian nation!" Meaning any and every square inch of it may be considered sacred Christian ground, by the Christian nationalists, when that's convenient to play the fake affront game. (We should make "playing the persecuted Christian card" a thing.)
I think the subtext of what he's saying is: "Religious freedom" means We, the Real Americans, will tolerate some specific little religions (like Islam and Judaism), we'll let them have their little sacred places. But the whole nation is Christianity's sacred place, and it's an affront to us to be reminded that The Satanic Temple exists here, at all.
posted by Western Infidels at 2:07 PM on December 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
And as we know, "America is a Christian nation!" is such a lie as to be laughable. Fuck these haters, make the winter solstice tree you want!
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:32 PM on December 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:32 PM on December 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Satanism as practiced by the Satanic Temple is a mixture of secular humanism and applied trolling. It bears only a (deliberate) cosmetic similarity to any dictionary definition of Satanism.
Listen, buddy, I have only three words to say to you: Buy a vowel.
posted by y2karl at 2:42 PM on December 21, 2023
Listen, buddy, I have only three words to say to you: Buy a vowel.
posted by y2karl at 2:42 PM on December 21, 2023
This is generally great, but Incensed Catholic priests deserves a special mention.
posted by maniabug at 3:23 PM on December 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by maniabug at 3:23 PM on December 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
For the pun at least.
posted by y2karl at 3:55 PM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 3:55 PM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
You know, I might have to join this organization. It's kinda my style. (Yes, I'm a Sconnie.)
posted by humbug at 4:32 PM on December 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by humbug at 4:32 PM on December 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
"This kind of stunt is just more teen-boy-mentality trolling to divide people unnecessarily"
Wow, even though no teenagers were involved in this story you've managed to demonize teenagers anyway. Good work!
posted by Umami Dearest at 5:36 PM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Wow, even though no teenagers were involved in this story you've managed to demonize teenagers anyway. Good work!
posted by Umami Dearest at 5:36 PM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is generally great, but Incensed Catholic priests deserves a special mention.
What really gets them incensed is when the get censered.
...a few houses that are decked out in fairly sinister-looking white and red...
Peppermint is a pleasurable strong aromatic often deeply inhaled....
Sounds insidious!
posted by BlueHorse at 6:04 PM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
What really gets them incensed is when the get censered.
...a few houses that are decked out in fairly sinister-looking white and red...
Peppermint is a pleasurable strong aromatic often deeply inhaled....
Sounds insidious!
posted by BlueHorse at 6:04 PM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
>
FX: splat, train horns passing.
(oh c'mon: no-one else immediately went all ASDF after seeing this?)
posted by scruss at 6:23 PM on December 21, 2023
We like trains.
FX: splat, train horns passing.
(oh c'mon: no-one else immediately went all ASDF after seeing this?)
posted by scruss at 6:23 PM on December 21, 2023
"This kind of stunt is just more teen-boy-mentality trolling to divide people unnecessarily“
No, it is about exercising their right to participate equally in a pluralistic society.
posted by pdoege at 6:35 PM on December 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
No, it is about exercising their right to participate equally in a pluralistic society.
posted by pdoege at 6:35 PM on December 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
I was raised non-Christian, but my family celebrates Christmas (in the US where it is inescapable). I love seeing people getting creative with the holiday stuff. And I kinda just don't want the Christians to be able to pretend that everyone in the country is Christian and celebrates Christmas Christian-ly just like them?
So: this Satanist tree is maybe trolling the churchy people - but it also speaks to me, a person who has observed Christmas for decades. (I want a "Hail Santa" ornament now.)
posted by mersen at 7:22 PM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
So: this Satanist tree is maybe trolling the churchy people - but it also speaks to me, a person who has observed Christmas for decades. (I want a "Hail Santa" ornament now.)
posted by mersen at 7:22 PM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I fail to see how them putting up a tree they want is at all being rude
They don't want the tree for it's own sake; they want to offend the type of person who gets offended by this. If no one were offended they wouldn't do it. I'm amused by it, but these people chose to call their secular activist group the Satanic Temple and not the Green Bay Chapter for Separation of Church and State. They are looking to get a rise out of people of a certain type.
posted by mark k at 9:29 PM on December 21, 2023
They don't want the tree for it's own sake; they want to offend the type of person who gets offended by this. If no one were offended they wouldn't do it. I'm amused by it, but these people chose to call their secular activist group the Satanic Temple and not the Green Bay Chapter for Separation of Church and State. They are looking to get a rise out of people of a certain type.
posted by mark k at 9:29 PM on December 21, 2023
these people chose to call their secular activist group the Satanic Temple and not the Green Bay Chapter for Separation of Church and State
Importantly, groups using religious displays in this way to advocate for religious freedom have to themselves be religious groups.
posted by augustimagination at 12:52 AM on December 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
Importantly, groups using religious displays in this way to advocate for religious freedom have to themselves be religious groups.
posted by augustimagination at 12:52 AM on December 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
The national railroad museum is utterly terrific. I took my teen daughters there this summer and they wondered for hours.
A typo, I think, but a happy one. I’ll allow it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:16 AM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
A typo, I think, but a happy one. I’ll allow it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:16 AM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
these people chose to call their secular activist group the Satanic Temple and not the Green Bay Chapter for Separation of Church and State
The Satan tree people are making the Santa Jesus tree people as uncomfortable as the Santa Jesus tree people make me, yet I only see you criticizing one of these groups. Interesting. I think the kids nowadays would call that "tone policing."
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:52 AM on December 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
The Satan tree people are making the Santa Jesus tree people as uncomfortable as the Santa Jesus tree people make me, yet I only see you criticizing one of these groups. Interesting. I think the kids nowadays would call that "tone policing."
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:52 AM on December 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
They don't want the tree for it's own sake; they want to offend the type of person who gets offended by this. If no one were offended they wouldn't do it. I'm amused by it, but these people chose to call their secular activist group the Satanic Temple and not the Green Bay Chapter for Separation of Church and State. They are looking to get a rise out of people of a certain type.
They are looking for fairness. And of course they aren't calling themselves a chapter like a group. They are a religious group. It's not really right to me to say their beliefs aren't sincerely held, but ok.
Other religions get a rise out me all the time, by the way.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:34 AM on December 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
They are looking for fairness. And of course they aren't calling themselves a chapter like a group. They are a religious group. It's not really right to me to say their beliefs aren't sincerely held, but ok.
Other religions get a rise out me all the time, by the way.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:34 AM on December 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
(And then you might say the LGBTQ+ tree people are "looking to get a rise out of people." Except they aren't? I'm betting? But some assholes would feel that way.)
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:36 AM on December 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:36 AM on December 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Not mentioned in any of the articles but very relevant nonetheless:
Despite its status as the only Congressionally designated national-status railroad museum in the United States, the National Railroad Museum receives no federal, state or local tax support. Funds supporting Museum operations come from admissions, grants, memberships, fundraising events, mission-related business activities, and the generosity of private donors.
The National Railroad Museum does not and shall not discriminate on the basis of race, sex, color, religion (creed), gender, gender expression, age, national origin (ancestry), disability, marital status, sexual orientation, or military status, in any of its activities or operations. These activities include, but are not limited to, hiring and firing of staff, selection of volunteers and vendors, and provision of services. We are committed to providing an inclusive and welcoming environment for all members of our staff, visitors, volunteers, subcontractors, vendors, and clients.
posted by JJ86 at 7:05 AM on December 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Despite its status as the only Congressionally designated national-status railroad museum in the United States, the National Railroad Museum receives no federal, state or local tax support. Funds supporting Museum operations come from admissions, grants, memberships, fundraising events, mission-related business activities, and the generosity of private donors.
The National Railroad Museum does not and shall not discriminate on the basis of race, sex, color, religion (creed), gender, gender expression, age, national origin (ancestry), disability, marital status, sexual orientation, or military status, in any of its activities or operations. These activities include, but are not limited to, hiring and firing of staff, selection of volunteers and vendors, and provision of services. We are committed to providing an inclusive and welcoming environment for all members of our staff, visitors, volunteers, subcontractors, vendors, and clients.
posted by JJ86 at 7:05 AM on December 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Well bless their hearts...
posted by Czjewel at 3:52 PM on December 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Czjewel at 3:52 PM on December 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Lookit that tree! Only Scrooges would hate. But don't worry! It s not too late!
posted by eustatic at 5:44 PM on December 23, 2023
posted by eustatic at 5:44 PM on December 23, 2023
This kind of stunt is just more teen-boy-mentality trolling to divide people unnecessarily.
I disagree this is trolling. The only people who are going to find this offensive are the ones who see the default as some blend of evangelical Christian and frankly I find that default assumption offensive on a regular basis.
posted by Mitheral at 3:39 PM on December 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
I disagree this is trolling. The only people who are going to find this offensive are the ones who see the default as some blend of evangelical Christian and frankly I find that default assumption offensive on a regular basis.
posted by Mitheral at 3:39 PM on December 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
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posted by heyitsgogi at 7:22 AM on December 21, 2023 [3 favorites]