“What’s the difference between plowing your car and planting a bomb?”

November 4, 2021 12:39 PM

The Car Becomes the Weapon Demonstrators around the country have been injured and killed by vehicle rammings, but there’s been precious little justice. And new laws could make accountability even scarcer. (SLBoston Globe)
posted by box (28 comments total)

This is bad. The lack of accountability for drivers will embolden bad actors to threaten or attack pedestrians further. Which then, of course, gives protesters reason to believe that any approaching vehicle is a credible threat.

The end result is that someone's going to get shot for driving near a protest in "self-defense," because drivers are plowing over pedestrians in "self defense."

Killing someone because you're scared should not automatically be considered self-defense. South Park's "it's coming right for us" was supposed to be a parody, not an instruction manual.
posted by explosion at 1:05 PM on November 4, 2021 [5 favorites]

Maybe we all need to just try and understand them even harder?
posted by flamk at 1:09 PM on November 4, 2021 [26 favorites]

I don't know that in a world where car attacks of protestors are increasing and the consequences are shrinking even as people have been injured and killed already I'd jump straight to worrying about a hypothetical protestor killing a driver or equating the fears of the drivers and the protestors who are not protected by their cars but perhaps we view things differently.

I'm not trying to be snarky but this is not theoretical to many of us; I got to a lot of protests, including some pretty spicy ones, and I get understandably jumpy around cars at protests because people keep using them as weapons. The end result isn't a protestor shooting a driver, it's drivers hurting and killing protestors, and this is already happening and the right wants to encourage it by making it consequence free.
posted by an octopus IRL at 1:13 PM on November 4, 2021 [58 favorites]

(Sorry, that WAS snarky, and it was born out of anxiety which I should not have let get the better of me, mods feel free to delete and I will either skip this or post something more thoughtful)
posted by an octopus IRL at 1:16 PM on November 4, 2021 [1 favorite]

this is already happening and the right wants to encourage it by making it consequence free.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Yes, I'm aware of that.

The thing they don't realize is that if there aren't legal consequences, people invariably create extralegal consequences.

We're already seeing that right wing "protesters" get to show up armed as "militias" with basically no consequence. They're creating a world in which the left wing must do that as well.

When peaceful protests are still met with violence, why protest peacefully?
posted by explosion at 1:58 PM on November 4, 2021 [12 favorites]

The signs and portents from Kyle Rittenhouse's trial suggest that using a weapon as a weapon is A-OK as long as its the "right" person using that weapon against the "wrong" person. No reason vehicles should be treated any differently.

Oh, and +1 to klanawa.
posted by adamrice at 2:04 PM on November 4, 2021 [6 favorites]

I'm getting flashes of "X Marks the Pedwalk" by Fritz Leiber (1963).

That said, if it becomes no longer safe to march in protest for fear of being run over, then the next reasonable step is for protesters to protest inside their own cars. Imagine a thousand or more vehicles, creating gridlock on every street for blocks around whatever edifice is the center of the protest. You could bring a whole city to its knees with that kind of organized action.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:08 PM on November 4, 2021 [21 favorites]

Critical Gas.
posted by box at 2:13 PM on November 4, 2021 [6 favorites]

I’m sure these laws will be administered absolutely even-handedly once a car barrels through a Proud Boys march. Yep. Absolutely fairly. Yepyepyep...
posted by Thorzdad at 2:26 PM on November 4, 2021 [13 favorites]

From near the end of the article:

The vast majority of the protests subject to ramming incidents in 2020 were antiracism efforts, while some were held to support other progressive causes, including the environment. In at least three cases, however, the target was a pro-Trump or pro-police protest, and the drivers in two of those incidents face steep charges. In Eaton, Colo., a 21-year-old man, Isaiah Cordova, allegedly drove into a Blue Lives Matter Demonstration. No one was injured, per local news reports, but Cordova faces seven charges of first-degree attempted murder — some of the most serious charges the Globe found (he is expected to enter a plea in December). In Yorba Linda, Calif., a 40-year-old woman named Tatiana Turner was accused of hitting Black Lives Matter counter-protesters with her car, injuring two, according to local news reports, and triggering a charge of attempted murder and multiple other felony counts.

posted by box at 3:02 PM on November 4, 2021 [26 favorites]

So, no charges unless you hit white folks, then?
posted by eustatic at 3:44 PM on November 4, 2021 [8 favorites]

And how do you argue against someone's claim that they feared for their life when, in the mind of, say, a white supremacist, the mere presence of a black person constitutes an existential threat; or for a member of the religious right, the mere existence of transgender individuals. They have the luxury to be afraid and act in accordance with their fear. In fact, they dwell in their fear, and it structures the way power is enacted against the victimized. But a black man is not allowed to be afraid of a police officer -- because the police officers are the "good guys," of course! -- and fear of authority is read as criminality. The marginalized are expected to put up with hatred, fear and violence from the dominant, and the dominant constitute the marginalized as a threat for the very purpose of justifying violence against them and maintaining their dominance.
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:04 PM on November 4, 2021 [19 favorites]

Now, now. What's with all this "victim" language? That's biased.
posted by sardonyx at 5:00 PM on November 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

This week Molly Conger is live tweeting, in detail, the civil trial of the organizers of the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally. For hours and hours today she tweeted out the questioning and testimony of Richard Spencer. The Twitter platform is unwieldy, but it does provide a horrifying immediacy when used for coverage like this.

And while I’m here, fuck Richard Spencer very very much.
posted by pickles_have_souls at 5:09 PM on November 4, 2021 [9 favorites]

Another reason for cities to make streets safe to walk and bike everyday. It should be physically impossible to get a truck up to a deadly speed without hitting a vehicle-deflecting street feature.

And for road- blocking protests, time to adopt a Czech hedgehog??
posted by anthill at 8:27 PM on November 4, 2021 [8 favorites]

flamk, I don’t know whether to favorite you or flag you. ;)
posted by drfu at 1:08 AM on November 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

Yeah, you'll pry my car from my cold dead fingers... ? Is that how that goes?

Seriously though, that there is any discussion about this at all is... troubling, let's say.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:32 AM on November 5, 2021

And yes, there are portable, easy to assemble and erect versions of the Czech hedgehog - which is maybe the only short-term solution to protect protests from murderers.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:36 AM on November 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

Everybody see this? I guess the running down protestors isn't just for the common man. Manchin considers it, and then changes his mind. His car does roll forward with people in front of it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:07 AM on November 5, 2021 [2 favorites]

It's extremely difficult to face any consequences for killing/maiming someone with your car in North America as long as you were sober while doing it. People make threats all the time on social media, using their real name, of how they'd love to use their car to mow down people on bikes/people protesting/people legally crossing the street too slowly. There's always a reason the victim "deserved" it - just being in or near the road is enough. Congratulations to "I feared for my life!" on joining the pantheon of "I didn't see them!", "The sun was in my eyes!", and "I lost control of the vehicle!".
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 7:26 AM on November 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

The_Vegetables I have no love for coal baron Manchin but I'm not convinced besieging politicians in their homes is actually a constructive protest technique at this point.
posted by viborg at 10:26 AM on November 5, 2021

Appropriate to this discussion was a very disorienting and terrifying experience I had during the final stages of my most recent Concealed Pistol License permitting coarse.
The instructor - who was near-fanatical about teaching these (mostly boomer) gun-owners that, "you can't shoot people for stealing your property, raising your weapon (brandishing) is a major crime, if you can reasonably run away you can't shoot people," went completely weird at one point.

A lady asked if she could shoot a protestor who was jumping on her car.
The instructor said, "do you think jumping on your car constitutes a credible threat to your life?"
She sheepishly said, "No, I suppose not."
He replied, "exactly. That's why I drive a TRX, it's got really high ground clearance on the front end."

I recall my feelings of absolute horror as it dawned on me what he was actually recommending. These people desperately want to be able to run us down with their cars, and I'm not even sure my CZ Phantom 9mm would do much to stop them. I think that direct-action protestors need to plan very seriously about this and develop more effective counter-measure protocols than "slapping on the hood" and "trying to hit the windshield with your protest sign."

We need a way to disable their vehicles extremely quickly. Not much is coming to mind, I'm not even sure how effective spike strips would be.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 10:47 AM on November 5, 2021 [9 favorites]

I mean, look at the completely psychotic fantasies these people walk around with in their heads all day. They are primed and ready to kill people. These are the "I wish a fucker would" types.

I think it looks like jack rocks have been deployed with some success during labor disputes. Successful enough to get a law passed in Illinois.

Looks like Bezos may have the answer I'm looking for.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 11:02 AM on November 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

Caltrops seem like a good starting point, yes? Really what you want is something that will aim punctures into wheel wells, if you can...
posted by sciatrix at 11:03 AM on November 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

Fell down a 'how to force an engine to seize up - gun broker' rabbit hole and almost bought a 10 gauge semiauto shotgun lol.
"I could probably use it for... uh... goose hunting!"
That's enough internet for today.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 11:16 AM on November 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

I'm not convinced besieging politicians in their homes is actually a constructive protest technique at this point.

Unfortunately, very soon this may be the only constructive protest technique.
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:01 PM on November 5, 2021

I'm late to this thread, but it's taken me a while to get to a place where I feel like I can share this comment. I'm not sure entirely why it's been so difficult to share. I think I have been reluctant to talk about it because it was so chilling and could have ended up so much worse.

This happened during the BLM protests during the summer of 2020 there was a local youth organized and lead protest march. It was started by high school and middle school aged students in a fairly small and progressive town surrounded by rural countryside.

The protest was supported by adults, mostly their parents and teachers. Total attendance was maybe 500-1000 people, including the adults there in support. While this protest wasn't permitted, we did have local police approval and escort they were present and peaceful. Our local police department is used to our protests and there isn't a lot of divisive acrimony between the population and the police. Around here protests usually involve people standing along the side of the main road in town with the occasional permitted march in the streets. They usually last for a few peaceful hours and then everyone goes home, and this one wasn't really any different.

What was different is that it seemed to attract a lot of negative attention from outside of the area, which I will elaborate on in a moment.

At protests I tend to stay out of the crowds on the periphery with my camera for documentation and doing a safety patrol on my bike for mobility. I usually have a first aid kit, extra water, snacks and that sort of thing.

Well, at this protest I observed and was increasingly concerned about a group of 2-3 lifted trucks that kept passing through the area and circling around the protest, which at this point was standing on the sidewalks and road shoulder around one of the main intersections in town.

One of the trucks had a vinyl cut decal reading YEE YEE! on the tailgate in letters about a foot and a half high and the full width of the tailgate. Apparently YEE YEE is a (self defined) redneck term that is defined as the shout of joy or excitement when hunting. I did some googling about this and it was usually paired with an image or silhouette of a figure holding a gun overhead, and, well, you get the general idea. You can look this stuff up yourself, I don't really want to do so again at the moment.

Around this point there was a planned or unplanned action to stage a "die in" which involved the protesters taking that intersection and lying face down in the road for about 8 minutes to represent the length of time that Minneapolis Police were kneeling on George Floyd's neck when he was murdered.

There was very little traffic to be blocked, and those that were in cars and unable to proceed through the intersection during the die in seemed to be overwhelmingly supportive and patient about what was going on. There was no honking, and some of the drivers and passengers even got out of their car to kneel next to their cars in support and solidarity. The silence during the die in was eerie and intense.

It was at this point that the convoy of 2-3 lifted trucks that were orbiting the area decided to go through the drive through of the fast food restaurant at that corner, enter the side street to the intersection where the die in was happening and line up in the left hand turn lane at the light controlled intersection where there were about 150-200 youth laying face down in the street in front of them.

The movements of the people in those trucks were pretty plainly obvious that they were waiting for this moment and trying to be provocative and threatening. They weren't revving their engines or anything, but started creeping closer and closer to the intersection and the people in it. I have no doubts they were hoping they would be attacked or mobbed so they could justify gunning it through the crowd of people "in fear of their safety", which is specious bullshit because that's not how protests work around here.

As soon as I saw them lining up and approaching the intersection I laid my bike down and was right up on the driver side door at a respectful distance of the lead truck which had the YEE YEE decal and very calmly saying something like "Dude, there's a bunch of kids out there. You're going to want to turn around and go the other way." and he seemed to be a little surprised he was being confronted by me so calmly, and watching as his eyes nervously kept checking out the camera hanging around my neck.

The guy was like late 20s or mid 30s and wearing a bunch of camo hunting gear. I have no doubts that he was armed.

I also have no doubts that I would have climbed right though his window if he tried to move forward at that point and I would like to think that he knew it. This is one of the rare few times where I'm all about very intense and meaningful eye contact and capable of shooting lasers out of them.

He said something lame like "I can't, I'll get a ticket." even as he was looking over his shoulder and shifting into reverse and I instantly replied with "It's ok. I'll pay it. And I'm sure the police will understand. Those kids are going to be in the intersection for a few more minutes. You really need to turn around, man. There's people's kids out there."

No accusations were needed. We both knew what was going on and going through his head. He knew it, I knew it, the dads around me knew it and we weren't having it.

Meanwhile in the brief moment of this confrontation and discussion I looked around me and found about 4-5 big and dad-looking fellows that were right behind me and standing calmly in front of the truck waving him back or making gestures he needs to turn around. There was no shouting at any point and his truck was, thankfully, suddenly blocked and surrounded by a bunch of very stern and concerned looking adults.

I remember feeling like I could watch and feel the expressions crossing over his face as the driver was considering what was going on, what he was thinking about doing and the strange and frightening mix of shame and frustration that I saw in his eyes and face, like he was disgusted with himself but also frustrated he couldn't bring himself to do this awful thing of hitting the gas on his lifted truck and running right over a bunch of middle school and high school aged kids peacefully lying face down in the street.

And so he said "Alright, ok, ok" and put the truck into reverse and the trucks behind him also backed up, and then turned around and left via an alternate route. Shortly after that the local police department finally showed up and blocked the roads for safety and traffic control and detouring traffic around the blocked intersection

The guys in the trucks circled the area a few more times and then left town, the die in ended and the protesters left the intersection and that was that. For now.

Fast forward something like a few weeks and there was a "Back the Blue" rally involving a local classic car club which was, as I understand it, not initially meaning to be a protest at all. Usually the classic car club just comes into town, quietly cruises the main street a few times, parks their vintage cars and hits up the local restaurants. It's a regular thing.

This time it was co-opted by a bunch of people organizing on Facebook to join the cruise and turn it into something else. The guy with the YEE YEE truck was there, as were a bunch of other lifted trucks and not vintage cars. They spent something like 3 hours driving up and down the streets revving their engines, rolling coal and harassing and intimidating bystanders, flying Trump and Blue Lives Matter flags and otherwise making an insane amount of noise from the safety of their trucks and cars.

Eventually the local population and business owners had enough of this nonsense and blocked one of the intersections in town. The people who were out there blocking the streets were all people who lived and worked there and it was totally spontaneous. Things got a bit heated and confrontational.

Eventually the local police showed up and started diverting and blocking traffic on the main roads in downtown trying to break up the rolling convoy of "Back the Blue" people and dispersed the counter-protesters. The classic car club had mostly dispersed at that point and either had gone home or parked their cars to go to the restaurants like they usually do, which left the convoy of non-vintage trucks and cars on their own and exposed.

Things calmed down and returned to normal.

And then many of the local business owners started getting doxxed. Some of the local businesses started getting a flood of negative reviews and comments on their business pages involving accusations of things like being Communists. The business I worked for even started getting false reviews and accusations of things like raping customers and other nasty things.

Then we started getting regularly visited by people who were not our regular customers who were looking and hoping for confrontations and trying to start fights, doing things like refusing to wear masks, trying to instigate political arguments and doing everything they could to provoke confrontations.

This went on for weeks and weeks. We didn't rise to meet the provocations, but the local John Brown chapter started showing up to quietly provide ad hoc security in the background as a show of force and resistance.

I spent the next very tense two months or so working in the kitchen while keeping a makeshift tourniquet on my belt and a first aid kit handy, which is not something I thought I'd ever find myself doing while cooking or washing dishes.

Every day I went into work in fear and a state of heightened alertness and awareness that someone was going to come in and start shooting and that I was going to have to try to tackle some asshole with a gun or die trying, or that I was going to have to try to save the life of a friend or customer from bleeding out from a gunshot wound.

It was terrifying and extremely stressful to go through.

I don't have much else to say about this beyond this shit is fucked up and it doesn't seem to be going away, and that it keeps simmering. I've had nightmares about this turning into a hot civil war.

There's already been a lot of direct violence from the extreme right as indicated by this thread and so many incidents like this, and it makes me sick to my stomach to even have to talk about this.
posted by loquacious at 11:03 AM on November 6, 2021 [16 favorites]

and yet
posted by anshuman at 2:17 PM on November 6, 2021 [4 favorites]