A Nation of Wimps
May 13, 2013 6:41 PM Subscribe
Psychology Today asks "Are we raising a nation of wimps?"
This post was deleted for the following reason: As astute readers pointed out, this article is from 2004, and in fact we've discussed it before. -- LobsterMitten
It's more worrying that there are parents who do all their children's thinking for them -- propping them up with paper crowns, inflated praise -- and false achievements that seem somehow relevant to the real world until reality hits. Reality is not as terrifying as it sounds...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 6:47 PM on May 13, 2013
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 6:47 PM on May 13, 2013
I was prepared to mock the shit out of yet another article about this sort of thing, but my parents raised my family sheltered and we're pretty wimpy and messed up. But i guess that's individual parents. This sort of complaint happens all the time - apparently the Romans compared themselves unfavorbly to more tough barbarian/Germanic tribes.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 6:47 PM on May 13, 2013
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 6:47 PM on May 13, 2013
"Yeah, we need another Vietnam to thin out their ranks."
posted by FJT at 6:47 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by FJT at 6:47 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's where intellectual and developmental tracks converge as the emotional training wheels come off.
Ponder, if you will, this image, its inception, and its publication.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:48 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
Ponder, if you will, this image, its inception, and its publication.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:48 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'll gladly answer that question tuesday in exchange for a hamburger today.
posted by hoople at 6:51 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by hoople at 6:51 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
"In the hothouse that child raising has become, play is all but dead. "
This is the name of my next Tennessee Williams play.
I'm not sure where this guy lives, but it isn't in my neighborhood.
posted by HuronBob at 6:53 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is the name of my next Tennessee Williams play.
I'm not sure where this guy lives, but it isn't in my neighborhood.
posted by HuronBob at 6:53 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Didn't I read this in a Reader Digest "Remember When?" section? Or was it an email "rant" (fwd:fwd:fwd:fwd) from my old uncle? I forget.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:53 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:53 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Parental hovering is why so many teenagers are so ironic, he notes."
Okay, now this is just getting silly. I'm starting to want my time back from this article.
posted by el io at 6:54 PM on May 13, 2013
Okay, now this is just getting silly. I'm starting to want my time back from this article.
posted by el io at 6:54 PM on May 13, 2013
Every fall, parents drop off their well-groomed freshmen and within two or three days many have consumed a dangerous amount of alcohol and placed themselves in harm's way. These kids have been controlled for so long, they just go crazyHm . . . within a few days of arriving at school, I drank to blackout and had to be put fully clothed in the shower by frightened dorm-mates. And I was pretty much uncontrolled at home - was dating a college student in 10th grade, my parents both worked and were a little scared by me. And that was 1968.
Although I agree many of their parents are anxious and controlling to a ridiculous degree, I would disagree that the students are nearly as overwhelmed by it as the psychologists think. They seem to me to have remarkable contempt for their parents in spite of the closeness they experience, and they dismiss their parents (not only in conversation away from home but to their faces) from an early age. They're willing to take advantage of their parents' over-nurturing and of the extended time, chauffeuring, and face-time they are offered, certainly. The kids are just as shallow and self-centered as their generational predecessors, many of them.
posted by Peach at 6:56 PM on May 13, 2013
Ah crap.
When I grew up we had to walk both ways, in the snow. Up hill. And in granny's day they made her do it wearing a long dress, with her shoelaces tied together. And granpa had to make his out of old leather boots and a plow handle. No running down to the store all the time.
So I turned out just fine, thank you. Okay, not so fine, but I ain't like that anymore.
Anyhow, all that's wrong with the whippersnappers is that they need a haircut, some advice on how to dress decently, and then get rid of the attitude. No respect for authority. And the music....let's see, hair, music, funny clothes, and no respect for authority. Yeah, that about covers it. Oh, and get a job!
posted by mule98J at 6:56 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I grew up we had to walk both ways, in the snow. Up hill. And in granny's day they made her do it wearing a long dress, with her shoelaces tied together. And granpa had to make his out of old leather boots and a plow handle. No running down to the store all the time.
So I turned out just fine, thank you. Okay, not so fine, but I ain't like that anymore.
Anyhow, all that's wrong with the whippersnappers is that they need a haircut, some advice on how to dress decently, and then get rid of the attitude. No respect for authority. And the music....let's see, hair, music, funny clothes, and no respect for authority. Yeah, that about covers it. Oh, and get a job!
posted by mule98J at 6:56 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
We live in a small town and I'm trying to turn my grandkids[6 and 10] loose but I'm getting pushback from my mother and their mother.
When I was their age I would disappear for hours and it's the same town.
posted by wrapper at 6:57 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I was their age I would disappear for hours and it's the same town.
posted by wrapper at 6:57 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Psychology Today: Thought Tomorrow
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
It's a real problem. Here's another example:
"…In a Westchester community whose school system is world famous, it was recently discovered that graduates with excellent high-school records did very poorly in college and did not make much of themselves afterwards. An investigation revealed a simple psychological cause. All during high school, the mothers literally had been doing their children’s homework and term papers. They had been cheating their sons and daughters out of their own mental growth…"
Where does all this lead?
"…a new and frightening passivity, softness, and boredom in American children… incapable of the effort, the endurance of pain and frustration, the discipline needed to compete on the [athletic] field, or get into college.”
Things have gotten really bad, or at least, they'd gotten really bad in 1963, when Betty Friedan wrote all this in The Feminine Mystique. That's why today's 60-year-olds are so damn wimpy.
posted by escabeche at 7:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [11 favorites]
"…In a Westchester community whose school system is world famous, it was recently discovered that graduates with excellent high-school records did very poorly in college and did not make much of themselves afterwards. An investigation revealed a simple psychological cause. All during high school, the mothers literally had been doing their children’s homework and term papers. They had been cheating their sons and daughters out of their own mental growth…"
Where does all this lead?
"…a new and frightening passivity, softness, and boredom in American children… incapable of the effort, the endurance of pain and frustration, the discipline needed to compete on the [athletic] field, or get into college.”
Things have gotten really bad, or at least, they'd gotten really bad in 1963, when Betty Friedan wrote all this in The Feminine Mystique. That's why today's 60-year-olds are so damn wimpy.
posted by escabeche at 7:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [11 favorites]
From the article: 'Those in it look like adults but "haven't become fully adult yet—traditionally defined as finishing school, landing a job with benefits, marrying and parenting—because they are not ready or perhaps not permitted to do so."
Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in 2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the number had fallen to 46 percent.'
So I get the impression that they want us to miss the good old days, when the country was psychologically healthy, ie: the women were barefoot and pregnant, and the men had jobs with benefits.
Also, yeah, a ton of people between the ages of 20 and 30 don't have benefits at their jobs, but I sure as heck wouldn't place them blame on *THEM* for that.
posted by el io at 7:02 PM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in 2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the number had fallen to 46 percent.'
So I get the impression that they want us to miss the good old days, when the country was psychologically healthy, ie: the women were barefoot and pregnant, and the men had jobs with benefits.
Also, yeah, a ton of people between the ages of 20 and 30 don't have benefits at their jobs, but I sure as heck wouldn't place them blame on *THEM* for that.
posted by el io at 7:02 PM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
"We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife."
posted by parki at 7:03 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by parki at 7:03 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dan Carlin discussed this in Hardcore History
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 7:04 PM on May 13, 2013
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 7:04 PM on May 13, 2013
I do agree that their parents do their homework for them. There's a remarkable difference for many of my middle school kids between the work they do at home and the work they do at school. Right now the parents are trying to organize their exam preparation, with some funny e-mails resulting. Fortunately, most of the parents really don't want to do all the work that I suggest when they ask me how to prepare their kids for the exam.
posted by Peach at 7:07 PM on May 13, 2013
posted by Peach at 7:07 PM on May 13, 2013
Isn't this the same publication that ran a "study" explaining that black women are objectively less attractive than women of other races?
posted by duffell at 7:08 PM on May 13, 2013
posted by duffell at 7:08 PM on May 13, 2013
"Bending rules and calling in favors to give one's kid a competitive edge is morally corrosive."
Well certainly, but on a larger scale it's probably 'morally corrosive' to see those in power and authority act in unethical and immoral ways. But we can't shield young adults from the news forever.
posted by el io at 7:10 PM on May 13, 2013
Well certainly, but on a larger scale it's probably 'morally corrosive' to see those in power and authority act in unethical and immoral ways. But we can't shield young adults from the news forever.
posted by el io at 7:10 PM on May 13, 2013
I teach at a university. I have to say that I don't know enough about my students to know whether or not they're wimps. I rather expect them to be, because they have, in general, had it so good/easy...but I don't particularly notice that they are.
There seems to be more whining and peurility that when I was an undergrad, but that tends to be isolated to a relatively few students, and it could be because my students are a lot wealthier than the students at my undergraduate institution...
This stuff is all so vauge and impressionistic that I'd really like to see it broken down into some categories that are quantifiable and then, y'know, quantified. I just don't trust people's impressions about this sort of thing.
posted by Fists O'Fury at 7:11 PM on May 13, 2013
There seems to be more whining and peurility that when I was an undergrad, but that tends to be isolated to a relatively few students, and it could be because my students are a lot wealthier than the students at my undergraduate institution...
This stuff is all so vauge and impressionistic that I'd really like to see it broken down into some categories that are quantifiable and then, y'know, quantified. I just don't trust people's impressions about this sort of thing.
posted by Fists O'Fury at 7:11 PM on May 13, 2013
This was originally published in 2004. What is so groundbreaking about this article that it merits posting 9 years after the fact?
posted by ChuraChura at 7:11 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ChuraChura at 7:11 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
The first "most helpful" review of Marano's book currently at Amazon is titled "Important book riddled with hyperbole, anecdotal evidence," which dovetails well with my feelings about the PT article. There are some worthwhile questions to discuss with regard to parenting practices related to Marano's article, but her oversimplifications aren't conducive to a productive conversation and make me wonder to what extent the data actually map onto the narrative she's telling.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:12 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:12 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
published on November 01, 2004
I thought this sounded ... old.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:13 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I thought this sounded ... old.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:13 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I hope the hipsters who complain about anti-hipsterism in the anti-hipsterism thread will come over here and extend a little sympathy to the suburban parents here in the anti-suburban-parent thread.
Indeed: those two scorned Americans, the "pretentious hipster" and the "overprotective suburban parent" are in some sense alike. Both sort of exist but sort of don't. There are indeed actual Americans who we might generally agree are pretentious hipsters or overprotectivce suburban parents, but their physical existence is not very important, compared to the idea of the pretentious hipster and the overprotective parent, both of which are slabs on which we can fingerpaint our fantasies about America's moral decay.
posted by escabeche at 7:17 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Indeed: those two scorned Americans, the "pretentious hipster" and the "overprotective suburban parent" are in some sense alike. Both sort of exist but sort of don't. There are indeed actual Americans who we might generally agree are pretentious hipsters or overprotectivce suburban parents, but their physical existence is not very important, compared to the idea of the pretentious hipster and the overprotective parent, both of which are slabs on which we can fingerpaint our fantasies about America's moral decay.
posted by escabeche at 7:17 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
"This was originally published in 2004. What is so groundbreaking about this article that it merits posting 9 years after the fact?"
hmmm.. that would make these kids being talked about somewhere in their 20's... hmmm.. the age of the average mefite is.. hmmmm..... in their 20's .... damn, he's talking about YOU GUYS!
posted by HuronBob at 7:18 PM on May 13, 2013
hmmm.. that would make these kids being talked about somewhere in their 20's... hmmm.. the age of the average mefite is.. hmmmm..... in their 20's .... damn, he's talking about YOU GUYS!
posted by HuronBob at 7:18 PM on May 13, 2013
Ponder, if you will, this image, its inception, and its publication.
That way madness lies.
Really, though are we discussing Psychology Today articles? Because they are really good at crap articles. Like this one.
Here's the one interesting thing I can say about this nonsense: when you see a spate of articles "concerned" about "softness" you do best to file it under "people who prefer male dominance and hierarchies are feeling uncomfortable." Sometimes they get so uncomfortable they feel compelled to start another war so we can all (well, not the soldiers, they're mostly dead) feel more manly and stop thinking about womanish ideas like equality, social justice or taking care of the vulnerable because there's a war on.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 PM on May 13, 2013
That way madness lies.
Really, though are we discussing Psychology Today articles? Because they are really good at crap articles. Like this one.
Here's the one interesting thing I can say about this nonsense: when you see a spate of articles "concerned" about "softness" you do best to file it under "people who prefer male dominance and hierarchies are feeling uncomfortable." Sometimes they get so uncomfortable they feel compelled to start another war so we can all (well, not the soldiers, they're mostly dead) feel more manly and stop thinking about womanish ideas like equality, social justice or taking care of the vulnerable because there's a war on.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 PM on May 13, 2013
Is being able to complete tests quickly a sign of non-wimpyness? Do timed tests actually test the students knowledge better? (I have been told that the first answer you think is correct probably is, so overthinking questions isn't necessarily a good idea).
I suspect before children were allowed to get a medical out for timed tests, we have had generations of kids who were terribly bright, but look awful in the testing process and thus were overlooked for advanced placement and university. This surely can't be a good thing.
posted by el io at 7:19 PM on May 13, 2013
I suspect before children were allowed to get a medical out for timed tests, we have had generations of kids who were terribly bright, but look awful in the testing process and thus were overlooked for advanced placement and university. This surely can't be a good thing.
posted by el io at 7:19 PM on May 13, 2013
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I BLAME THIS ON THE BREAKDOWN OF
SOCIETY
posted by Sebmojo at 7:22 PM on May 13, 2013
SOCIETY
posted by Sebmojo at 7:22 PM on May 13, 2013
published on November 01, 2004
I thought this sounded ... old.
I'm happy that you think so, but I gotta say, this sounds to me like the same record John Tierney was still playing in the New York Times in 2011, and probably still is today.
posted by escabeche at 7:23 PM on May 13, 2013
I thought this sounded ... old.
I'm happy that you think so, but I gotta say, this sounds to me like the same record John Tierney was still playing in the New York Times in 2011, and probably still is today.
posted by escabeche at 7:23 PM on May 13, 2013
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But more seriously: No. We're not. My Army Reserve duty is at a local university's ROTC program, and holy shit are those kids tough. Granted, I'm seeing a different crop of people than your average psychologist, but going through college knowing that you're probably going to war next? They don't even blink.
Every generation thinks the next one has it easy, because if they don't, then what the hell were we doing with our society?
posted by Etrigan at 6:45 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]