An unsavoury enterprise
September 18, 2013 5:05 AM Subscribe
A Star Trek fan previously in the news for having converted his Leicestershire flat into a replica of the Starship Enterprise has been jailed for downloading large quantities of child pornography. He is merely the most recent example of a previously observed tendency for disproportionate numbers of convicted paedophiles to have been really into Star Trek; nobody has quite explained why, though theories abound.
This post was deleted for the following reason: This doesn't seem to be going very well at all. I thought it was worth waiting and seeing how the discussion would pan out, but upon reflection I don't really see what could be accomplished here. Sorry to have vacillated. -- goodnewsfortheinsane
I blame Miri.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:21 AM on September 18, 2013
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:21 AM on September 18, 2013
Sigh... Correlation is not causation.
So? Even if someone was implying causation, that doesn't mean it's not worthy of discussion.
Correlation can be important. Just because Star Trek fandom doesn't cause this doesn't mean understanding why so many people who do this are into Star Trek isn't a worthy...enterprise.
posted by inturnaround at 5:22 AM on September 18, 2013 [8 favorites]
So? Even if someone was implying causation, that doesn't mean it's not worthy of discussion.
Correlation can be important. Just because Star Trek fandom doesn't cause this doesn't mean understanding why so many people who do this are into Star Trek isn't a worthy...enterprise.
posted by inturnaround at 5:22 AM on September 18, 2013 [8 favorites]
What about a tendency to want to eavesdrop on the entire world.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:24 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:24 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Post data or GTFO. And I'm not talking about Brent Spiner.
posted by fonetik at 5:24 AM on September 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by fonetik at 5:24 AM on September 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
From the previously observed link: "Lamond told me what he told you, that 'all but one' was a bit of hyperbole. However, the cops do stick by their claim that the vast majority of people that they bust seem to have an obsession with sci-fi. And that most of them seem to really like Star Trek."
A 'majority' 'seem' to like sci-fi. And of those, 'most' 'seem' to really like Star Trek.
SCIENCE.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:24 AM on September 18, 2013 [7 favorites]
A 'majority' 'seem' to like sci-fi. And of those, 'most' 'seem' to really like Star Trek.
SCIENCE.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:24 AM on September 18, 2013 [7 favorites]
"We always say there are two types of pedophiles: Star Trek and Star Wars," says Det. Ian Lamond, the unit's second-in-command. "But it's mostly Star Trek."
posted by pracowity at 5:26 AM on September 18, 2013
posted by pracowity at 5:26 AM on September 18, 2013
This is a strange post. I'm pretty sure you could do something like this with anything that has a big enough fandom. What do we gain from having this discussion about Star Trek in particular? Getting to go "hurf durf nerds aren't they weird amirite"? A moment of fleeting superiority over troubled, possibly mentally ill people?
posted by fight or flight at 5:27 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 5:27 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Sigh... Correlation is not causation.
But the phrase "Correlation is not causation" is a magic spell that dispels statistical studies or claims one does not like.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 5:28 AM on September 18, 2013 [6 favorites]
But the phrase "Correlation is not causation" is a magic spell that dispels statistical studies or claims one does not like.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 5:28 AM on September 18, 2013 [6 favorites]
I was disappointed (I guess? Would have been interesting if there was some substance to it) to find that the "theories" in the last link boiled down to "Star Trek is set in an odd world different from ours; pedophiles live in an odd world different from ours."
posted by edheil at 5:28 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by edheil at 5:28 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
This appears to be almost entirely about Toronto, but I suppose that must be because the Toronto police are the only ones in the world who routinely make a scientifically reliable fandom assessment as part of the arrest process?
posted by Segundus at 5:28 AM on September 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 5:28 AM on September 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by three groups: the police, the prosecutors, and the Organian Council
posted by thelonius at 5:32 AM on September 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:32 AM on September 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
Wait til the authorities get a load of what the Star Wars fans are into...
posted by Thorzdad at 5:37 AM on September 18, 2013
posted by Thorzdad at 5:37 AM on September 18, 2013
The NSA also went to get involved: NSA director modeled top secret war room to look like the bridge of Star Trek's Enterprise
posted by biffa at 5:37 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by biffa at 5:37 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Correlation is not causation.
So I suppose we should be looking for a third thing that causes klingonism and kiddy-fiddling?
posted by pompomtom at 5:37 AM on September 18, 2013
So I suppose we should be looking for a third thing that causes klingonism and kiddy-fiddling?
posted by pompomtom at 5:37 AM on September 18, 2013
Nanukthedog: “Sigh... Correlation is not causation.”
There is no correlation here. I'm not sure people even understand what "correlation" means anymore.
A parallel example:
95% of pedophiles have hair on their heads. Does this mean that there is a correlation between having hair and being a pedophile?
posted by koeselitz at 5:39 AM on September 18, 2013
There is no correlation here. I'm not sure people even understand what "correlation" means anymore.
A parallel example:
95% of pedophiles have hair on their heads. Does this mean that there is a correlation between having hair and being a pedophile?
posted by koeselitz at 5:39 AM on September 18, 2013
This reminds me of the whole "superbowl and domestic violence" thing.
posted by idiopath at 5:39 AM on September 18, 2013
posted by idiopath at 5:39 AM on September 18, 2013
NSA director modeled top secret war room to look like the bridge of Star Trek's Enterprise
I wonder whether anyone has tended to browse
the NSA's archive of Snapchat photos from the Captain's chair.
posted by acb at 5:40 AM on September 18, 2013
I wonder whether anyone has tended to browse
the NSA's archive of Snapchat photos from the Captain's chair.
posted by acb at 5:40 AM on September 18, 2013
Fucking confirmation bias--how does it work? You have a science fiction franchise that stretches over nearly half a century, over a dozen movies and several hundreds of hours of TV episodes, and once some cop gets it in his head that Trekkies are pervs, he'll paw through dozens of DVDs looking for the copy of The Wrath of Khan or the reboot. And even if they didn't own anything, they probably watched it at some point, right?
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:41 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:41 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
[mine] Sigh... Correlation is not causation.
[yours] So? Even if someone was implying causation, that doesn't mean it's not worthy of discussion.
Correlation can be important. Just because Star Trek fandom doesn't cause this doesn't mean understanding why so many people who do this are into Star Trek isn't a worthy...enterprise.
posted by inturnaround at 8:22 AM on September 18
Okay think of it like this. I'll give them that this fan was possibly obsessive about Star Trek and evidence has shown that this fan was also into child pornography. It may be the case that multiple people interested in child pornography have also expressed an apparent obsessive interest in Star Trek; however, the contrapositive argument, that someone who shows obsessive behavior about Star Trek is more likely to be interested in child pornography is sociologically unsubstantiated - and that's the route that is implied by this article.
Nanukthedog: “Sigh... Correlation is not causation.”
There is no correlation here. I'm not sure people even understand what "correlation" means anymore.
A parallel example:
95% of pedophiles have hair on their heads. Does this mean that there is a correlation between having hair and being a pedophile?
posted by koeselitz at 8:39 AM on September 18
I agree wholeheartedly, hence my problem with concept of the article, and with the implication that there is a draw between the two. This is right up there with the Catcher in the Rye being involved with shootings.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:43 AM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
[yours] So? Even if someone was implying causation, that doesn't mean it's not worthy of discussion.
Correlation can be important. Just because Star Trek fandom doesn't cause this doesn't mean understanding why so many people who do this are into Star Trek isn't a worthy...enterprise.
posted by inturnaround at 8:22 AM on September 18
Okay think of it like this. I'll give them that this fan was possibly obsessive about Star Trek and evidence has shown that this fan was also into child pornography. It may be the case that multiple people interested in child pornography have also expressed an apparent obsessive interest in Star Trek; however, the contrapositive argument, that someone who shows obsessive behavior about Star Trek is more likely to be interested in child pornography is sociologically unsubstantiated - and that's the route that is implied by this article.
Nanukthedog: “Sigh... Correlation is not causation.”
There is no correlation here. I'm not sure people even understand what "correlation" means anymore.
A parallel example:
95% of pedophiles have hair on their heads. Does this mean that there is a correlation between having hair and being a pedophile?
posted by koeselitz at 8:39 AM on September 18
I agree wholeheartedly, hence my problem with concept of the article, and with the implication that there is a draw between the two. This is right up there with the Catcher in the Rye being involved with shootings.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:43 AM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Right, but what do pedophiles think of the new Star Trek movies?
sigh
Star Trek fandom is a community with a lot of built-in acceptance of people with socially atypical behavior. So many of the atypical people are harmless, or even really awesome because of their atypicality. But because us Star Trek people are culturally so accustomed to allowing weirdos to be weirdos, to not pry too deeply off-topic but instead to penetrate deeply into one obscure thing or talk in grandiose ideals, there's a space too for people whose atypical aspects are far more unsavory. It's that social geek fallacy thing again. It should shock nobody reading this thread that these statements can apply to nearly any fan community revolving around a fictional construct.
I'm not sure that this guy is that sort of case, though. It seems to me that anybody with that amount of focus on their exterior must have some pretty fucked up things going on in their insides.
posted by Mizu at 5:43 AM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
sigh
Star Trek fandom is a community with a lot of built-in acceptance of people with socially atypical behavior. So many of the atypical people are harmless, or even really awesome because of their atypicality. But because us Star Trek people are culturally so accustomed to allowing weirdos to be weirdos, to not pry too deeply off-topic but instead to penetrate deeply into one obscure thing or talk in grandiose ideals, there's a space too for people whose atypical aspects are far more unsavory. It's that social geek fallacy thing again. It should shock nobody reading this thread that these statements can apply to nearly any fan community revolving around a fictional construct.
I'm not sure that this guy is that sort of case, though. It seems to me that anybody with that amount of focus on their exterior must have some pretty fucked up things going on in their insides.
posted by Mizu at 5:43 AM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't think anyone is alleging anything like causation here. I find the notion of this particular correlation pretty interesting all by itself.
posted by hwestiii at 5:45 AM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by hwestiii at 5:45 AM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
"We always say there are two types of pedophiles: Star Trek and Star Wars," says Det. Ian Lamond, the unit's second-in-command. "But it's mostly Star Trek."
Which one was Jerry Sandusky, again?
posted by stevis23 at 5:45 AM on September 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
Also, I think this is the most appropriate Star Trek gif I have for this thread.
posted by Mizu at 5:49 AM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Mizu at 5:49 AM on September 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's surprising at all assuming that child porn consumers are part of a social network. Social networks and cultural diffusion go hand-on-hand, and you can use cultural signifiers like favorite movies and shows as an indirect method of distinguishing social networks.
For example, half of the first floor of my office are regular watchers of Downton Abbey. The show has nothing to do with the job, it's just something that people adopted on the basis of coffee-maker conversation.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 5:51 AM on September 18, 2013
For example, half of the first floor of my office are regular watchers of Downton Abbey. The show has nothing to do with the job, it's just something that people adopted on the basis of coffee-maker conversation.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 5:51 AM on September 18, 2013
I'm surprised by the number of people who seem to be taking this at face value. Really, "all but one" or at least a "vast majority" of pedophiles are Star Trek fans? The known predators who have most recently been in the news, like Catholic priests, Jerry Sandusky, and Jimmy Savile are not, to my knowledge, Star Trek fans. I'm not a Star Trek fan either, so I'm not defending "my people" or anything, but is it really so easy for people to think "pedophiles are weird and Star Trek fans are weird, so sure, yeah, obviously there's going to be a big overlap here."? There isn't a single piece of evidence or data I can see to support this idea. When or if that happens, I imagine there could be a pretty interesting discussion about the relationship between the two. Until then, no thanks.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:00 AM on September 18, 2013
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:00 AM on September 18, 2013
Well...*Voyager* fans, anyway...
posted by Fists O'Fury at 6:05 AM on September 18, 2013
posted by Fists O'Fury at 6:05 AM on September 18, 2013
Even if someone was implying causation, that doesn't mean it's not worthy of discussion.
Discussion is one thing. Using that correlation to spark or justify prejudice is quite another.
I strongly doubt the outcome of this article will stop at "discussion".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:07 AM on September 18, 2013
Discussion is one thing. Using that correlation to spark or justify prejudice is quite another.
I strongly doubt the outcome of this article will stop at "discussion".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:07 AM on September 18, 2013
Set phasers to 'groom'.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:16 AM on September 18, 2013
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:16 AM on September 18, 2013
I find the HuffPo speculation on the content of the show being central to the association unsatisfying. As mentioned above, was it cultural diffusion? If so, in which direction within a social grouping and what is diffusing (one hopes it is the taste for Trek)? Is the association developing from the social blindness that tends to manifest around avid, talkative Trek fans (similar to the ignoring of undesirable people/interactions on the street, making this more a case of an inadvertent offender survival strategy)? So many things that could be investigated, even in a simple way, that the writers don't come close to touching on.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:16 AM on September 18, 2013
posted by Slackermagee at 6:16 AM on September 18, 2013
confirmation bias, a cop showing himself not to be a scientist, and star trek kiddie fucker jokes. ugh to this whole entire post.
posted by nadawi at 6:17 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 6:17 AM on September 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
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posted by Nanukthedog at 5:09 AM on September 18, 2013 [5 favorites]