The King is dead(ish), long live the King!
March 30, 2015 8:04 AM Subscribe
Trevor Noah, a South African comedian who has appeared on TDS three times, has been chosen to replace Jon Stewart as host of The Daily Show.
I first learned about Noah from a post on the blue, and I love his comedy. I thought he might be a candidate because his contributor spots had gone so well, but I didn't really think that Viacom would want a little-known South African comic headlining their show. His recent episode of The Daily Show podcast gives a good sense of what his start at the show has been like.
posted by gladly at 8:13 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by gladly at 8:13 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm surprisingly happy with this choice. He's been fantastic in his spots so far and seems like he's really going to grow into the role.
posted by The Michael The at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by The Michael The at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2015
W. Kamau Bell's Interview with Noah (June 2013). Noah's 'African American' special (also 2013) is on Netflix.
posted by cashman at 8:18 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by cashman at 8:18 AM on March 30, 2015
He was wonderful on QI.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:23 AM on March 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 8:23 AM on March 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
A little surprised that someone on the show didn't get the nod, but very happy with this pick. Noah, from what I've seen, is equal parts smart and funny.
It will though, be big shift to go from Stewart's Jersey Jew schtick to Noah's more internationalist appeal. Do you think Noah is going to start practicing tightening his tie while doing that Mr. Magoo voice Stewart does? You know, just so we all feel comfortable with the change?
posted by Panjandrum at 8:24 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
It will though, be big shift to go from Stewart's Jersey Jew schtick to Noah's more internationalist appeal. Do you think Noah is going to start practicing tightening his tie while doing that Mr. Magoo voice Stewart does? You know, just so we all feel comfortable with the change?
posted by Panjandrum at 8:24 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
He's a talented comedian with a subtle dry touch which I appreciate. I wish him all the best.
posted by Fizz at 8:25 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Fizz at 8:25 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
What I wonder is how well Noah is able to interview, because Jon Stewart is one of the best interviewers on television. Of course Stewart's had plenty of practice at it.
posted by Catblack at 8:27 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by Catblack at 8:27 AM on March 30, 2015
I'm hoping the selection of a non-American host will mean that TDS can get further and further away from the 24/7/365 Dem/Repub mud wrestling match and reach more into international news instead. As much as I always admired Stewart, the focus on that always wore on me and kept me from being a regular viewer.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2015 [21 favorites]
I'm hoping the selection of a non-American host will mean that TDS can get further and further away from the 24/7/365 Dem/Repub mud wrestling match and reach more into international news instead.
I'd be willing to bet that CC is explicitly aiming for the international market with this pick.
posted by Think_Long at 8:29 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'd be willing to bet that CC is explicitly aiming for the international market with this pick.
posted by Think_Long at 8:29 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
He did two seasons of his own late-night talk show in South Africa so I'm guessing he has experience at interviewing in that format.
He's young, handsome, approachable, he can project experience and gravitas when needed. He's a relative unknown in the US, meaning he's probably not turning down other big opportunities for this job - overall a great pick.
posted by muddgirl at 8:36 AM on March 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
He's young, handsome, approachable, he can project experience and gravitas when needed. He's a relative unknown in the US, meaning he's probably not turning down other big opportunities for this job - overall a great pick.
posted by muddgirl at 8:36 AM on March 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
I'm hoping the selection of a non-American host will mean that TDS can get further and further away from the 24/7/365 Dem/Repub mud wrestling match and reach more into international news instead. As much as I always admired Stewart, the focus on that always wore on me and kept me from being a regular viewer.
This is one reason why I think that John Oliver's Last Week Tonight is so successful. A combination of the format as well as his willingness to tackle news and media coverage globally has me super excited every Sunday night. The Bugle is also good in this way.
posted by Fizz at 8:38 AM on March 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
This is one reason why I think that John Oliver's Last Week Tonight is so successful. A combination of the format as well as his willingness to tackle news and media coverage globally has me super excited every Sunday night. The Bugle is also good in this way.
posted by Fizz at 8:38 AM on March 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
What I wonder is how well Noah is able to interview, because Jon Stewart is one of the best interviewers on television. Of course Stewart's had plenty of practice at it.
Actually, I found Stewart an awkward and, at his worst, pandering interviewer. He pitched way too many softballs to some of his guests. He may not have had much choice about that, of course. After a while, I kind of wished he'd stop interviewing altogether and just do the comedy stuff he was good at.
posted by emjaybee at 8:44 AM on March 30, 2015 [48 favorites]
Actually, I found Stewart an awkward and, at his worst, pandering interviewer. He pitched way too many softballs to some of his guests. He may not have had much choice about that, of course. After a while, I kind of wished he'd stop interviewing altogether and just do the comedy stuff he was good at.
posted by emjaybee at 8:44 AM on March 30, 2015 [48 favorites]
If nothing else let's hope this spells the end of the vomit inducing Stewart-Bill O'rielly, overly chummy, we're actually friends off-the air, butDemocratsdoittooamIrite? interviews.
That and John's tired and painfully forced both-sides-are-the-same centrism made me not sorry to hear he was moving on, the show needs a new voice and Noah could be an inspired choice if he grows into the role like John did at his best.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
That and John's tired and painfully forced both-sides-are-the-same centrism made me not sorry to hear he was moving on, the show needs a new voice and Noah could be an inspired choice if he grows into the role like John did at his best.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
As much as I always admired Stewart, the focus on that always wore on me and kept me from being a regular viewer.
I didn't watch the show much but I appreciated how much influence Stewart had on American politics. The run-up to the 2016 presidential election won't be the same without him. It'll be interesting to see how many of the seemingly never-ending parade of GOP candidates will submit to being interviewed by Trevor Noah, or if TDS will even be trying to pursue those people anymore.
Anyway, I wish Noah well. I imagine he's been and will continue to be studying up on all aspects of American culture. Hopefully by now someone's clued him in on how "that's you?" works.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:59 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I didn't watch the show much but I appreciated how much influence Stewart had on American politics. The run-up to the 2016 presidential election won't be the same without him. It'll be interesting to see how many of the seemingly never-ending parade of GOP candidates will submit to being interviewed by Trevor Noah, or if TDS will even be trying to pursue those people anymore.
Anyway, I wish Noah well. I imagine he's been and will continue to be studying up on all aspects of American culture. Hopefully by now someone's clued him in on how "that's you?" works.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:59 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Cool. Never heard of him.
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:00 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:00 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm not super enthused at the pick, but he does come with a good set of skills, and the ability to speak 6 languages could lead some really good places. I think the fact that I'm wondering what the show will be like with him on it is a good thing for them.
posted by cashman at 9:01 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by cashman at 9:01 AM on March 30, 2015
Hopefully by now someone's clued him in on how "that's you?" works.
Thank you. That bothered me.
posted by cashman at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2015
Thank you. That bothered me.
posted by cashman at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2015
how many of the seemingly never-ending parade of GOP candidates will submit to being interviewed by Trevor Noah
I think mostly they'll look at him and say, "Aren't you a little young to be up this late?"
posted by psoas at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think mostly they'll look at him and say, "Aren't you a little young to be up this late?"
posted by psoas at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking that, since he just came on board The Daily Show in December, and especially because he has hosting experience on his own show back in South Africa, Comedy Central/TDS might have sought him out last year with this job specifically in mind.
posted by Mothlight at 9:07 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Mothlight at 9:07 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Actually, I found Stewart an awkward and, at his worst, pandering interviewer.
criticizing Jon Stewart's interviewing skills is like criticizing Ringo's drumming.
A. you're right, there are scores better interviewers/drummers out there
B. so?
My bottom line with Mr. Stewart and his show is that, warts and all, it changed everything forever and mostly for the good. But as another Beatle once offered, all things must pass, and what's so cool about this passing is that Stewart's doing it while he's still at (or very near) the top of his game. He's making the change, not being forced by it.
And yeah, good luck to the new guy.
posted by philip-random at 9:19 AM on March 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
criticizing Jon Stewart's interviewing skills is like criticizing Ringo's drumming.
A. you're right, there are scores better interviewers/drummers out there
B. so?
My bottom line with Mr. Stewart and his show is that, warts and all, it changed everything forever and mostly for the good. But as another Beatle once offered, all things must pass, and what's so cool about this passing is that Stewart's doing it while he's still at (or very near) the top of his game. He's making the change, not being forced by it.
And yeah, good luck to the new guy.
posted by philip-random at 9:19 AM on March 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
The guy is a riot. I'll miss Jon Stewart, but I think CC made a good choice for his successor.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:22 AM on March 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:22 AM on March 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
Huh! Well, that sure came out of left field. He seems like a class act, though, so hopefully it'll work. Break a leg, Trevor!
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 9:26 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 9:26 AM on March 30, 2015
Note to self: AVOID ALL FURTHER COMMENTS ON ALL ARTICLES RELATED TO THIS ANNOUNCEMENT.
I've counted two comments complaining that "this isn't Africa" thus far and I think seeing any more would harsh my mellow.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:28 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I've counted two comments complaining that "this isn't Africa" thus far and I think seeing any more would harsh my mellow.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:28 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
There's a rumour out there that Louis CK, Amy Poehler and Amy Schumer were the top choices, but that they all turned it down.
And yes, Noah was great on QI.
posted by maudlin at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
And yes, Noah was great on QI.
posted by maudlin at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Note to self: AVOID ALL FURTHER COMMENTS ON ALL ARTICLES RELATED TO THIS ANNOUNCEMENT.
Yeah, I foolishly read the comments somewhere else, and one of them, in response to Noah speaking six languages, was "is one of them ebonics?" And now I share this comment with you, because I'm SO MAD about it.
Anyway, if I can't have Hari Kondabolu or Jessica Williams, Trevor Noah is more than acceptable. I'm really looking forward to seeing if this adds a more international bent to the news covered by The Daily Show.
posted by yasaman at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I foolishly read the comments somewhere else, and one of them, in response to Noah speaking six languages, was "is one of them ebonics?" And now I share this comment with you, because I'm SO MAD about it.
Anyway, if I can't have Hari Kondabolu or Jessica Williams, Trevor Noah is more than acceptable. I'm really looking forward to seeing if this adds a more international bent to the news covered by The Daily Show.
posted by yasaman at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
do we need to drag in crappy comments from other sites? I think we all know racism is out there.
posted by zutalors! at 9:48 AM on March 30, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 9:48 AM on March 30, 2015 [16 favorites]
Does 2/3rds of the Flophouse get to keep their jobs? I need the answer to this to be "Yes" for me to be excited.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
TDS can get further and further away from the 24/7/365 Dem/Repub mud wrestling matchI'd have called it a "left-wing/right-wing" mud wrestling match.
And that distinction was one of the things I liked best about Jon Stewart's Daily Show. He wasn't free from political bias, but his bias was philosophical, not partisan. Whereas the "liberal media" would often be willing to give illiberal politics a free pass if enough perpetrators had a (D) by their name, Stewart would call them on it.
And it worked the other way too. Some interviews came off as "softball", especially contrasted with the derisive comedy skits, but they did make it clear that Stewart thought he was trying to debate against bad ideas, not just fight against bad people. If he had been less respectful, he wouldn't have just lost interviewees, he would have risked the esteem of the more centrist parts of his audience.
posted by roystgnr at 10:02 AM on March 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
Does 2/3rds of the Flophouse get to keep their jobs? I need the answer to this to be "Yes" for me to be excited.
This is literally the only thing that came to mind when Stewart announced he was leaving. (My second thought was, "I wonder if Elliott is up for the job ...")
posted by tocts at 10:03 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is literally the only thing that came to mind when Stewart announced he was leaving. (My second thought was, "I wonder if Elliott is up for the job ...")
posted by tocts at 10:03 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Serious. Dude has a baby now and Spider-Man alone can't keep a man knee deep in Popeye's chicken as he deserves.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:22 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:22 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Comedy Central's decision to go with Noah will be noteworthy because he's so young and because he'll be the first non-white, non-American to host The Daily Show. But, more profoundly, the announcement suggests how a new breed of fake-news hosts is expanding the parameters of what gets satirized and from what perspective.Rolling Stone
posted by infini at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by infini at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've counted two comments complaining that "this isn't Africa" thus far
get used to it, folks
posted by philip-random at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2015
get used to it, folks
posted by philip-random at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2015
Can someone explain the "that's you" stuff or point the furriners to a link?
posted by infini at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Its also interestng to note how biracial Africans seem to be considered more palatable to the public?
posted by infini at 10:27 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by infini at 10:27 AM on March 30, 2015
Its also interesting to note how biracial Africans seem to be considered more palatable to the public?
Related:
"What are you?"
High yellow [wiki]
5 Truths About Colorism That I've Learned As a Black Woman In NYC
Study: lighter-skinned black and Hispanic people look smarter to white people. [Vox]
From that Vox article:
Related:
"What are you?"
High yellow [wiki]
5 Truths About Colorism That I've Learned As a Black Woman In NYC
Study: lighter-skinned black and Hispanic people look smarter to white people. [Vox]
From that Vox article:
- lighter-skinned black men with bachelor's degrees have a distinct advantage in job application processes over black men who have MBAs;posted by Fizz at 10:30 AM on March 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
- lighter skinned black women in North Carolina received lighter prison sentences than their darker peers;
- African-Americans with more education are remembered as being lighter than they actually are.
I like Trevor Noah. But I was hoping for a woman.
posted by Shoggoth at 10:32 AM on March 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Shoggoth at 10:32 AM on March 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
Trevor Noah is the Peter Capaldi of now, I guess
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:38 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:38 AM on March 30, 2015
Wow! He didn't even occur to me as a possibility - maybe because he's only been on TDS a handful of times - but the more I learn about him and the more I think about it, the more I like the choice. I hope he does bring a broader, more international perspective to TDS. But yeah, Shoggoth, I was kind of hoping for a woman too.
posted by Anyamatopoeia at 10:46 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by Anyamatopoeia at 10:46 AM on March 30, 2015
Watching a few videos of Noah, he seems very intelligent, quick thinking, and most dangerous of all affable which I think will lead to him delivering an amazing take down to some unsuspecting guest who can't see past boyish good looks and an erudite accent. That's the moment when we'll know the true nature of the post-Stewart Daily Show.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:51 AM on March 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:51 AM on March 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
Can someone explain the "that's you" stuff or point the furriners to a link?
thank you for asking i was too embarrassed to
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:53 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
thank you for asking i was too embarrassed to
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:53 AM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Can someone explain the "that's you" stuff or point the furriners to a link?
Watch the Live at the Apollo segment that Pogo_Fuzzybutt linked.
posted by axiom at 10:55 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Watch the Live at the Apollo segment that Pogo_Fuzzybutt linked.
posted by axiom at 10:55 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am pretty excited about this, but like others I wonder if it will diminish the focus on American politics - which would be a shame especially considering the role TDS played in the national conversation. I almost wish Noah was given a separate program - I love the idea of an "international" TDS, but also want to keep the more "local" version too : /
posted by rosswald at 10:57 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by rosswald at 10:57 AM on March 30, 2015
Guy uses the word "Hitlerish" in his stand-up routine. I'm look forward to hearing more from him.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:03 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by benito.strauss at 11:03 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
rosswald: Well, so far The Nightly Show looks to be focused on American culture and politics. So maybe that'll be the new dynamic: Trevor Noah starts us on the global level, then Larry Wilmore zeroes in on America.
posted by Anyamatopoeia at 11:11 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Anyamatopoeia at 11:11 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Whoah, I stepped away from this thread for a few hours and came back to find that Noah's skin tone has already been mentioned as an issue (for some people, anyway). If that's one of the reasons why he was chosen, yikes, TDC, I am disappoint.
Watch the Live at the Apollo segment that Pogo_Fuzzybutt linked.
You can jump in at about 2:40 if you don't want to listen to the whole thing. Note, this particular performance of his happened in London, not in Harlem.
In the bit he actually says "this you?" but earlier he had referenced the movie Training Day and some of Denzel Washington's character's dialogue. I haven't seen Training Day in a while so I'm unsure whether the character says "this you?" or "that's you?" but the meaning is the same. Urban Dictionary only lists the "that's you?" usage. Noah either misunderstood how it was used in the movie or he deliberately misspoke in the bit. Either way, I suspect a Harlem audience would have corrected him on the spot.
posted by fuse theorem at 11:16 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Watch the Live at the Apollo segment that Pogo_Fuzzybutt linked.
You can jump in at about 2:40 if you don't want to listen to the whole thing. Note, this particular performance of his happened in London, not in Harlem.
In the bit he actually says "this you?" but earlier he had referenced the movie Training Day and some of Denzel Washington's character's dialogue. I haven't seen Training Day in a while so I'm unsure whether the character says "this you?" or "that's you?" but the meaning is the same. Urban Dictionary only lists the "that's you?" usage. Noah either misunderstood how it was used in the movie or he deliberately misspoke in the bit. Either way, I suspect a Harlem audience would have corrected him on the spot.
posted by fuse theorem at 11:16 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is an interesting choice, and I wish him well! I had rather enjoyed the rumour that Tina Fey was being considered, but this choice right out of left field is great.
posted by Vindaloo at 11:28 AM on March 30, 2015
posted by Vindaloo at 11:28 AM on March 30, 2015
Either way, I suspect a Harlem audience would have corrected him on the spot.
The video says Live at the Apollo - London. It seemed to be in London.
And yes, he seems to just have misunderstood how "that's you" works. Hopefully he has gotten it figured out by now. I'm sure it's easy to mix up various parts of culture when you're exposed to lots of different ones. I mean he could have been doing it for comedic effect, but for the black Americans who he referred to and who have used "that's you" long before Training Day, there was a wait for a punchline that never came. It's like, okay, that's clearly not how it works, now where's the joke. And there wasn't one. But nobody is perfect and the guy is traversing different societies and mixing his experiences into his jokes and still coming off well.
I hope they use that to the show's advantage and allow him to point out many absurdities in different cultures. He seems to be adept at that, and when you experience a lot of different environments, you can often see the little societal quirks and structures that often need changing even though those who have lived under those rules have just unconsciously come to accept them as "normal".
I was also thinking that I hope he has a finely worked out system of theories about the world, like Jon seemed to have had (sharpened by TDS writers surely), but maybe they will go in a different direction and just have him seem to learn along with the audience along the way.
posted by cashman at 11:48 AM on March 30, 2015
The video says Live at the Apollo - London. It seemed to be in London.
And yes, he seems to just have misunderstood how "that's you" works. Hopefully he has gotten it figured out by now. I'm sure it's easy to mix up various parts of culture when you're exposed to lots of different ones. I mean he could have been doing it for comedic effect, but for the black Americans who he referred to and who have used "that's you" long before Training Day, there was a wait for a punchline that never came. It's like, okay, that's clearly not how it works, now where's the joke. And there wasn't one. But nobody is perfect and the guy is traversing different societies and mixing his experiences into his jokes and still coming off well.
I hope they use that to the show's advantage and allow him to point out many absurdities in different cultures. He seems to be adept at that, and when you experience a lot of different environments, you can often see the little societal quirks and structures that often need changing even though those who have lived under those rules have just unconsciously come to accept them as "normal".
I was also thinking that I hope he has a finely worked out system of theories about the world, like Jon seemed to have had (sharpened by TDS writers surely), but maybe they will go in a different direction and just have him seem to learn along with the audience along the way.
posted by cashman at 11:48 AM on March 30, 2015
There's a rumour out there that Louis CK, Amy Poehler and Amy Schumer were the top choices, but that they all turned it down.
People clamoring for Poehler, Fey, or another big time name seem to be overlooking that The Daily Show has an absolutely brutal production schedule. 6-8 weeks of 4 shows a week and 12-16hr days spent watching CNN with the writers or otherwise buried in current events for content. Then a week off and it's back to it for 8 more weeks.
Most of the fan favorite candidates already have their own projects, and would have to drop all of them to commit full time to TDS. It's not surprising that none of them wanted to. The big chair pretty much had to either go to one of the longtime show veterans familiar with the process, Jason Jones, etc, or an up-and-comer like Noah who could go all in and drop everything else.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:55 AM on March 30, 2015 [10 favorites]
People clamoring for Poehler, Fey, or another big time name seem to be overlooking that The Daily Show has an absolutely brutal production schedule. 6-8 weeks of 4 shows a week and 12-16hr days spent watching CNN with the writers or otherwise buried in current events for content. Then a week off and it's back to it for 8 more weeks.
Most of the fan favorite candidates already have their own projects, and would have to drop all of them to commit full time to TDS. It's not surprising that none of them wanted to. The big chair pretty much had to either go to one of the longtime show veterans familiar with the process, Jason Jones, etc, or an up-and-comer like Noah who could go all in and drop everything else.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:55 AM on March 30, 2015 [10 favorites]
So they are just going to give the reins of their flagship television show over to an unknown commodity who has only made three appearances on the programme?
Ballsy!
posted by Renoroc at 11:56 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ballsy!
posted by Renoroc at 11:56 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Really clever choice. John Oliver showed that Jon Stewart is a bit rubbish really when he took over The Daily Show, then showed that the Daily Show is a bit rubbish really with This Week Tonight. So the Daily Show have got themselves a John Oliver equivalent - a proper comedian rather than a presenter, one who can use his outsider status to broaden the show's focus and poke fun at Americans, but in a nice and friendly way. (Though he lacks John Oliver's American citizen advantage - he really emphasises the 'we' on LWT, I've noticed.)
The guy is a riot
That's such a well-honed little set - I don't want to spoil the last gag, but watch out for how he delivers the punchline in German, then gets a second laugh by translating it, which brings the folk who don't know German in, and makes the folk who got it the first time laugh at the gag at a second time and lets them chuckle at the idea that anyone would need the translation. That's Stewart Lee-level audience manipulation.
The 'creepy paedophile' clarification is wonderfully done too. At that point in the routine, the audience really need a daft gag to lighten things up, and he not only provides it, but does it as a fake fluff, so the audience get to laugh with him as he 'realises' his 'mistake'. Pretty canny move when you're doing observational comedy about a situation no one (or very very few) in the crowd has experienced.
In the bit he actually says "this you?" but earlier he had referenced the movie Training Day and some of Denzel Washington's character's dialogue.
Huh, I just thought he was taking the piss out of the way Americans shout the same thing over and over for emphasis and are routinely incredibly nice to strangers (and the bit he's apparently calling back to just seemed like made up crappy film dialogue, except 'put it in your mouth' which seemed... oddly specific).
Seems odd to reference some random action flick from fifteen years ago - is it a thing in the US that people still quote all the time? (And now I can't help but link to the British perrenial 'that's you...'.)
posted by jack_mo at 11:56 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
The guy is a riot
That's such a well-honed little set - I don't want to spoil the last gag, but watch out for how he delivers the punchline in German, then gets a second laugh by translating it, which brings the folk who don't know German in, and makes the folk who got it the first time laugh at the gag at a second time and lets them chuckle at the idea that anyone would need the translation. That's Stewart Lee-level audience manipulation.
The 'creepy paedophile' clarification is wonderfully done too. At that point in the routine, the audience really need a daft gag to lighten things up, and he not only provides it, but does it as a fake fluff, so the audience get to laugh with him as he 'realises' his 'mistake'. Pretty canny move when you're doing observational comedy about a situation no one (or very very few) in the crowd has experienced.
In the bit he actually says "this you?" but earlier he had referenced the movie Training Day and some of Denzel Washington's character's dialogue.
Huh, I just thought he was taking the piss out of the way Americans shout the same thing over and over for emphasis and are routinely incredibly nice to strangers (and the bit he's apparently calling back to just seemed like made up crappy film dialogue, except 'put it in your mouth' which seemed... oddly specific).
Seems odd to reference some random action flick from fifteen years ago - is it a thing in the US that people still quote all the time? (And now I can't help but link to the British perrenial 'that's you...'.)
posted by jack_mo at 11:56 AM on March 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
And yes, he seems to just have misunderstood how "that's you" works.
So how does it work? What did he do wrong?
posted by jack_mo at 11:57 AM on March 30, 2015
So how does it work? What did he do wrong?
posted by jack_mo at 11:57 AM on March 30, 2015
Jones/Bee both stepped their participation in the show back several notches when they decide to have kids. I respect that, and it makes their more-seldom appearances on the show that much sharper and more special.
In some ways, I think TDS could benefit from having a larger cast of "correspondents" who all appear less often but whose bits are all the more finely honed when they do appear. It would also allow them to have the exact right bullet in their arsenal to match up with each story they want to cover.
I'm pretty pleased with this choice. If there is one thing that above all else is generally missing from US media discourse, it is having more international, less insular voices in the mix. The more of this we have, the better, IMO.
posted by hippybear at 11:59 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
In some ways, I think TDS could benefit from having a larger cast of "correspondents" who all appear less often but whose bits are all the more finely honed when they do appear. It would also allow them to have the exact right bullet in their arsenal to match up with each story they want to cover.
I'm pretty pleased with this choice. If there is one thing that above all else is generally missing from US media discourse, it is having more international, less insular voices in the mix. The more of this we have, the better, IMO.
posted by hippybear at 11:59 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
So how does it work? What did he do wrong?
He said black americans point to each other and say "that's you", as if to just point out you're an awesome person. I'm sad that it's 2015 and people link to UrbanDictionary, but it is what it is. That's kind of the meaning. It's a reference to something attached to another person. So I could have met Matt and then seen Metafilter and said "that's you?" Or I could meet Michelle outside the White House and say "That's you?" Or I could meet Kim standing next to Kanye and say to Kim "That's you?" et cetera.
posted by cashman at 12:06 PM on March 30, 2015
He said black americans point to each other and say "that's you", as if to just point out you're an awesome person. I'm sad that it's 2015 and people link to UrbanDictionary, but it is what it is. That's kind of the meaning. It's a reference to something attached to another person. So I could have met Matt and then seen Metafilter and said "that's you?" Or I could meet Michelle outside the White House and say "That's you?" Or I could meet Kim standing next to Kanye and say to Kim "That's you?" et cetera.
posted by cashman at 12:06 PM on March 30, 2015
Jones and Bee also had a pilot picked up at TBS right after Jon Stewart announced he was stepping down.
I don't know why any well-established comedian (Louis CK, Tina Fey, etc. etc.) would want to take over the Daily Show, vs. producing a show of their own - even Samantha Bee is reportedly developing a satirical late-night current events show for TBS, where she would have more control over tone and format from the start.
(Side note: there are female comedians out there around Trevor Noah's stage in their career - find them! Give them an audience! Comedy central has been very successful lately taking comedians with a built-in audience and giving them a TV show - so if y'all want to see more women on comedy TV, be that audience!)
posted by muddgirl at 12:14 PM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't know why any well-established comedian (Louis CK, Tina Fey, etc. etc.) would want to take over the Daily Show, vs. producing a show of their own - even Samantha Bee is reportedly developing a satirical late-night current events show for TBS, where she would have more control over tone and format from the start.
(Side note: there are female comedians out there around Trevor Noah's stage in their career - find them! Give them an audience! Comedy central has been very successful lately taking comedians with a built-in audience and giving them a TV show - so if y'all want to see more women on comedy TV, be that audience!)
posted by muddgirl at 12:14 PM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I love Stewart and deeply respect him for three qualities in particular -- 1) his extraordinary work ethic 2) his ability to step back and get a wise, insightful take on an issue or event and 3) his remarkably quick wit. But of course he isn't perfect. There are many better interviewers out there and he sometimes got bogged down in, e.g., a bit of an obsession with Fox.
This guy looks like a fine choice to me and I hope he brings some of Stewart's ability to get us to think, understand, and decompress, as well as laugh.
posted by bearwife at 12:32 PM on March 30, 2015
This guy looks like a fine choice to me and I hope he brings some of Stewart's ability to get us to think, understand, and decompress, as well as laugh.
posted by bearwife at 12:32 PM on March 30, 2015
He said black americans point to each other and say "that's you", as if to just point out you're an awesome person. I'm sad that it's 2015 and people link to UrbanDictionary, but it is what it is. That's kind of the meaning. It's a reference to something attached to another person. So I could have met Matt and then seen Metafilter and said "that's you?" Or I could meet Michelle outside the White House and say "That's you?" Or I could meet Kim standing next to Kanye and say to Kim "That's you?" et cetera.
Not sure why you're throwing shade at linking to Urban Dictionary. Yeah, a lot of the stuff on there is crap but sometimes it does have a clear and succinct definition for slang terms that haven't made it to the Oxford Dictionary yet. Your mileage may vary, of course.
I don't' think "that's you" is quite as simple as described above. There's usually also an element of awe and disbelief attached, as if to say, "You have this? Seriously?"
Huh, I just thought he was taking the piss out of the way Americans shout the same thing over and over for emphasis and are routinely incredibly nice to strangers (and the bit he's apparently calling back to just seemed like made up crappy film dialogue, except 'put it in your mouth' which seemed... oddly specific).
Seems odd to reference some random action flick from fifteen years ago - is it a thing in the US that people still quote all the time?
Maybe not "all the time" but it's still in usage. I think the point in the bit was that when he first came to the U.S. he was trying to jump-start his understanding of Black American culture by watching movies like Training Day. He did a fairly good imitation of Denzel Washington's character's manner of speaking and walking and it's behavior that probably would have been easily recognized at the time. Because stereotypes.
posted by fuse theorem at 12:37 PM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not sure why you're throwing shade at linking to Urban Dictionary. Yeah, a lot of the stuff on there is crap but sometimes it does have a clear and succinct definition for slang terms that haven't made it to the Oxford Dictionary yet. Your mileage may vary, of course.
I don't' think "that's you" is quite as simple as described above. There's usually also an element of awe and disbelief attached, as if to say, "You have this? Seriously?"
Huh, I just thought he was taking the piss out of the way Americans shout the same thing over and over for emphasis and are routinely incredibly nice to strangers (and the bit he's apparently calling back to just seemed like made up crappy film dialogue, except 'put it in your mouth' which seemed... oddly specific).
Seems odd to reference some random action flick from fifteen years ago - is it a thing in the US that people still quote all the time?
Maybe not "all the time" but it's still in usage. I think the point in the bit was that when he first came to the U.S. he was trying to jump-start his understanding of Black American culture by watching movies like Training Day. He did a fairly good imitation of Denzel Washington's character's manner of speaking and walking and it's behavior that probably would have been easily recognized at the time. Because stereotypes.
posted by fuse theorem at 12:37 PM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
So how does it work? What did he do wrong?
He did nothing wrong. The thing about slang, and African American Slang in particular is that it's meanings are fluid, and highly context based. The whole joke is his taking a literal response to a rhetorical question, thus exposing his outsider status and forcing him to break character. It's easy in that context to interpret "That's you?" as a general "I see you over there doing your thing" .
Attempts by outsiders to define Black slang in a precise, pedantic manner is always weird and kind of annoying. It's up there with "literal translations" of rap songs in it's ability to miss the point.
posted by billyfleetwood at 1:21 PM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
He did nothing wrong. The thing about slang, and African American Slang in particular is that it's meanings are fluid, and highly context based. The whole joke is his taking a literal response to a rhetorical question, thus exposing his outsider status and forcing him to break character. It's easy in that context to interpret "That's you?" as a general "I see you over there doing your thing" .
Attempts by outsiders to define Black slang in a precise, pedantic manner is always weird and kind of annoying. It's up there with "literal translations" of rap songs in it's ability to miss the point.
posted by billyfleetwood at 1:21 PM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wow! Wouldn't have guessed it, but I like it. His chess bit with John the other week had me all excited the minute he came on, just because everything he's done so far has been a great mix of cutting and cheerful.
posted by deludingmyself at 1:54 PM on March 30, 2015
posted by deludingmyself at 1:54 PM on March 30, 2015
John Oliver showed that Jon Stewart is a bit rubbish really when he took over The Daily Show, then showed that the Daily Show is a bit rubbish really with This Week Tonight. So the Daily Show have got themselves a John Oliver equivalent - a proper comedian rather than a presenter, one who can use his outsider status to broaden the show's focus and poke fun at Americans, but in a nice and friendly way.
Maybe I don't understand British well enough, but it sounds like you're saying that Jon Stewart is a shitty host, and the The Daily Show is kind of shitty, and that the fault of this is that Jon wasn't a "proper comedian"? Cheers.
posted by psoas at 2:35 PM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Maybe I don't understand British well enough, but it sounds like you're saying that Jon Stewart is a shitty host, and the The Daily Show is kind of shitty, and that the fault of this is that Jon wasn't a "proper comedian"? Cheers.
posted by psoas at 2:35 PM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Attempts by outsiders to define Black slang in a precise, pedantic manner is always weird and kind of annoying. It's up there with "literal translations" of rap songs in it's ability to miss the point.
Where I'm the outsider? Where I'm the person who can't translate rap lyrics? Or are you annoyed at UrbanDictionary as well?
Not sure why you're throwing shade at linking to Urban Dictionary.
That was kind of harsh on my part, but when Urban Dictionary popped up (as in, came into being as a website), it was just groanworthy. And while many a google search will lead you there, I still cringe when it gets linked. By anybody.
posted by cashman at 2:56 PM on March 30, 2015
Where I'm the outsider? Where I'm the person who can't translate rap lyrics? Or are you annoyed at UrbanDictionary as well?
Not sure why you're throwing shade at linking to Urban Dictionary.
That was kind of harsh on my part, but when Urban Dictionary popped up (as in, came into being as a website), it was just groanworthy. And while many a google search will lead you there, I still cringe when it gets linked. By anybody.
posted by cashman at 2:56 PM on March 30, 2015
it's kept me hep
posted by philip-random at 3:12 PM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 3:12 PM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
John Oliver showed that Jon Stewart is a bit rubbish really when he took over The Daily Show, then showed that the Daily Show is a bit rubbish really with This Week Tonight.
We can agree to disagree on John Oliver as a Daily Show host, because that's more or less a matter of taste, but it's pretty unfair to compare The Daily Show to Last Week Tonight. They're doing fundamentally different things. Last Week Tonight has the time to do in-depth research on a specific news-worthy topic what with only doing one show a week, and it's not reacting to things on a daily basis the way TDS is. Also, Last Week Tonight isn't really satire in the same way TDS is. With Last Week Tonight, it's not so much about making meta-commentary on the news, as it is doing actual news in a funny way.
I think TDS's punishing production schedule precludes it from being the kind of show Last Week Tonight is, and that's fine. I'd like to see Noah take it some new directions, but I don't have a problem with TDS staying more about meta-commentary and satire on the news. Oliver has the freedom and resources to pursue something more like actual investigative journalism on his show, and over on The Nightly Show, Wilmore has topical, more in-depth conversations. Between TDS, The Nightly Show, and Last Week Tonight, we're covering a lot of pseudo-fake news angles.
posted by yasaman at 3:14 PM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
We can agree to disagree on John Oliver as a Daily Show host, because that's more or less a matter of taste, but it's pretty unfair to compare The Daily Show to Last Week Tonight. They're doing fundamentally different things. Last Week Tonight has the time to do in-depth research on a specific news-worthy topic what with only doing one show a week, and it's not reacting to things on a daily basis the way TDS is. Also, Last Week Tonight isn't really satire in the same way TDS is. With Last Week Tonight, it's not so much about making meta-commentary on the news, as it is doing actual news in a funny way.
I think TDS's punishing production schedule precludes it from being the kind of show Last Week Tonight is, and that's fine. I'd like to see Noah take it some new directions, but I don't have a problem with TDS staying more about meta-commentary and satire on the news. Oliver has the freedom and resources to pursue something more like actual investigative journalism on his show, and over on The Nightly Show, Wilmore has topical, more in-depth conversations. Between TDS, The Nightly Show, and Last Week Tonight, we're covering a lot of pseudo-fake news angles.
posted by yasaman at 3:14 PM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
This guy was totally off my radar—I've barely caught more than a clip every couple of months of Daily Show as my TV habits have changed over the last few years—but I'm really digging the bits of his work I've looked up via or because of this thread. It's hard to imaging TDS itself with someone other than Jon at the helm but mostly out of habit; I'm certainly more interested now in seeing what Trevor Noah can do as the new guy than I had been in what Jon would when he came on and the show was so much younger and just kind of the "that funny whatever show with the 5 Questions segment" cog in my college TV mix.
And Urban Dictionary is the worst solution to crowdsourcing internet folk slangonomy other than all the other solutions. It's a useful mess, drives me crazy with its sloppiness and some of the shittier tendencies that show up in the contributions, but it also answers a lot of questions my OED access can't.
posted by cortex at 3:28 PM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
And Urban Dictionary is the worst solution to crowdsourcing internet folk slangonomy other than all the other solutions. It's a useful mess, drives me crazy with its sloppiness and some of the shittier tendencies that show up in the contributions, but it also answers a lot of questions my OED access can't.
posted by cortex at 3:28 PM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Trevor Noah in hot water over Tweets.
I would hope Comedy Central went through all his past tweets and saw all of these. It definitely doesn't look good for him, and it'll be interesting to see if he gets removed as host. At the same time, imagine all of these tweets in a Chris Rock standup special. It wouldn't even move the needle.
Chris Rock has made fun of overweight women, talked about hating white people, and made similar comments about black celebrities and the wealth of those that sign their checks. So what will happen now.
posted by cashman at 6:17 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would hope Comedy Central went through all his past tweets and saw all of these. It definitely doesn't look good for him, and it'll be interesting to see if he gets removed as host. At the same time, imagine all of these tweets in a Chris Rock standup special. It wouldn't even move the needle.
Chris Rock has made fun of overweight women, talked about hating white people, and made similar comments about black celebrities and the wealth of those that sign their checks. So what will happen now.
posted by cashman at 6:17 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
They won't fire him. Would be humiliating for the network and cause a huge backlash. Besides, punching down against women, fat people and Jews is still considered acceptable in this day and age.
My guess is that he'll be admonished to lay off the Jewish and fat jokes and misogyny. And someone will explain the show's core viewer demographics and advertisers to him and point out the obvious.
posted by zarq at 6:34 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
My guess is that he'll be admonished to lay off the Jewish and fat jokes and misogyny. And someone will explain the show's core viewer demographics and advertisers to him and point out the obvious.
posted by zarq at 6:34 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Disagreement with Israel might be a selling point if Comedy Central is looking to turn towards a more international audience.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:43 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:43 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Good lord. What kind of lazy PR flacks didn't go through his social media? I did more than that for a one-off game show I wasn't even on.
posted by St. Hubbins at 7:17 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Hubbins at 7:17 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Most of those comments weren't about Israel, T.D. Strange. It's entirely possible that jokes at the expense of Jews would also be a selling point internationally, but the Jewish-women-are-frigid trope has exactly nothing to do with Israel.
I can't imagine that any of that will hurt him, but I imagine that he will be told to ixnay the ewishJay jokes. The fat-bashing and misogyny are probably fine and par for the fucking course.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:18 AM on March 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
I can't imagine that any of that will hurt him, but I imagine that he will be told to ixnay the ewishJay jokes. The fat-bashing and misogyny are probably fine and par for the fucking course.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:18 AM on March 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Jon Stewart made plenty of fat jokes _on_ the Daily Show.
posted by kmz at 7:39 AM on March 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by kmz at 7:39 AM on March 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Maybe so, but tweeting jokes about "fat chicks" has made me instantly dislike this guy, and I can't imagine I'm alone.
posted by painquale at 7:41 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by painquale at 7:41 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
weren't both Stewart and Colbert pretty bad about trans* topics as well?
posted by zutalors! at 7:43 AM on March 31, 2015
posted by zutalors! at 7:43 AM on March 31, 2015
Wendy Todd for the Washington Post: not so much a fan of his black-oriented humor either.
posted by psoas at 8:24 AM on March 31, 2015
posted by psoas at 8:24 AM on March 31, 2015
The message seems to be that since he's not African American, making this kind of jokes is not OK. This whole thing makes me a little worried about the future of The Daily Show, but I have to admit that as a non-American, I'm very interested in seeing how it'll play out.
posted by maskd at 8:49 AM on March 31, 2015
posted by maskd at 8:49 AM on March 31, 2015
From what I know, there seems to be a lot of anti-Israel sentiment in South Africa. The comparison between apartheid South Africa and modern-day Israel was drawn a lot while I was there, and the idea was basically "hey, we are doing the work to acknowledge our past atrocities, what are YOU doing?"
(I'm not aware of any historical antipathy between South Africa and the nation of Fatchickia, though)
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:22 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
(I'm not aware of any historical antipathy between South Africa and the nation of Fatchickia, though)
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:22 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
They won't fire him. Would be humiliating for the network and cause a huge backlash. Besides, punching down against women, fat people and Jews is still considered acceptable in this day and age.
Tosh.0 is still one of Comedy Central's biggest programs, and it's practically the standard-bearer in punching down. I can't see Comedy Central blinking at this.
posted by gladly at 9:48 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Tosh.0 is still one of Comedy Central's biggest programs, and it's practically the standard-bearer in punching down. I can't see Comedy Central blinking at this.
posted by gladly at 9:48 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nothing will happen, I've heard similar on the Daily Show over the years.
No doubt Comedy Central knows all about these tweets, correctly judged it's better to leave them there and deal with this now instead of later and its no big deal. No doubt he'll get a talking to and told to tone it down.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:49 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
No doubt Comedy Central knows all about these tweets, correctly judged it's better to leave them there and deal with this now instead of later and its no big deal. No doubt he'll get a talking to and told to tone it down.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:49 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
This tweet appeared in some of the recent reports. I didn't see that tweet at first. I don't know, I think they're going to have to address this situation. I'm not sure they're going to be able to just blink this away. Comedy Central also has Workaholics on it, which was funny at first but went off the rails after a couple of seasons. Even Broad City (also on Comedy Central) went bad for some of us when they started making rape jokes this season.
I don't know, Jon Stewart apologized for joking about whether or not he voted. He seemed to feel the audience for the Daily Show expected as much. At the end of the day, all these shows are on a comedy network. As much as we'd love for these shows to be meaningful, and as much as I think insight is a huge part of comedy and that same insight can lead to learning for a good number of people, perhaps if Noah and Comedy Central never step up to reply to this it's a wake up call to look at how much disarray our actual news networks are in when we're this dependent on a comedy show for news and information.
posted by cashman at 10:08 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know, Jon Stewart apologized for joking about whether or not he voted. He seemed to feel the audience for the Daily Show expected as much. At the end of the day, all these shows are on a comedy network. As much as we'd love for these shows to be meaningful, and as much as I think insight is a huge part of comedy and that same insight can lead to learning for a good number of people, perhaps if Noah and Comedy Central never step up to reply to this it's a wake up call to look at how much disarray our actual news networks are in when we're this dependent on a comedy show for news and information.
posted by cashman at 10:08 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't think Noah is terribly funny. I watched just about everything I could find of the guy online and.... meh. He's quick, but has a terribly arrogant way about him. He seems like the South African Daniel Tosh.
The attitude change about him over the last 24 hours in this thread and online is absolutely fascinating.
posted by lattiboy at 10:09 AM on March 31, 2015
The attitude change about him over the last 24 hours in this thread and online is absolutely fascinating.
posted by lattiboy at 10:09 AM on March 31, 2015
Also, I think Cashman just made the absolute most important point of this whole thing. This should be a goddamn comedy show. Instead, the selection process is getting more attention than any number of editors and network news show anchors combined.
The idea that a young comedian who has lived the majority of his adult life online has made some shitty jokes and they should disqualify him is insane. Do you people know how comedy works? Have you ever been to an open mic? Have you ever seen a comedian grow over time? Have you ever been around comedians off-stage?
The College of Cardinals have less strict criteria for anointing a pope than self-appointed "guardians of humor and justice" pitching fits on twitter and blogs do.
posted by lattiboy at 10:17 AM on March 31, 2015 [16 favorites]
The idea that a young comedian who has lived the majority of his adult life online has made some shitty jokes and they should disqualify him is insane. Do you people know how comedy works? Have you ever been to an open mic? Have you ever seen a comedian grow over time? Have you ever been around comedians off-stage?
The College of Cardinals have less strict criteria for anointing a pope than self-appointed "guardians of humor and justice" pitching fits on twitter and blogs do.
posted by lattiboy at 10:17 AM on March 31, 2015 [16 favorites]
the thing about comedy, particularly when it's actually in danger of actually being funny, is that it can hurt. It's the nature of the form. My question is not, does [insert comic's name] sometimes insult women, gays, Jews, Canadians, Presbyterians, whoever? It's, is she/he equal opportunity about it? Because we all do deserve to be laughed at.
posted by philip-random at 10:36 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 10:36 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
The last man standing among the professionally aggrieved is always W. Kamau Bell.
Honestly, check out just about any comedy thread on MeFi and you'll see him mentioned almost immediately.
Nevermind that he encompasses all the most annoying traits of any number of hyper self-aware progressive comics from San Francisco. He's basically Air America given corporeal form, with all the unbecoming self righteousness and nauseating preaching-to-the-choir that made it unlistenable garbage.
posted by lattiboy at 11:07 AM on March 31, 2015
Honestly, check out just about any comedy thread on MeFi and you'll see him mentioned almost immediately.
Nevermind that he encompasses all the most annoying traits of any number of hyper self-aware progressive comics from San Francisco. He's basically Air America given corporeal form, with all the unbecoming self righteousness and nauseating preaching-to-the-choir that made it unlistenable garbage.
posted by lattiboy at 11:07 AM on March 31, 2015
I'm agnostic on the merits of the choice, but amazed that Comedy Central bungled the rollout this badly. Did it get leaked and they had to scramble? Maybe they couldn’t have scrubbed the Twitter feed, but at least head the inevitable off at the pass.
I'm also curious if Trevor Noah’s seeming incompatibility with TDS brand is about Viacom deliberately trying to get away from social crusading in the name of something more generic like Tosh or @midnight.
posted by gerryblog at 11:10 AM on March 31, 2015
I'm also curious if Trevor Noah’s seeming incompatibility with TDS brand is about Viacom deliberately trying to get away from social crusading in the name of something more generic like Tosh or @midnight.
posted by gerryblog at 11:10 AM on March 31, 2015
My question is not, does [insert comic's name] sometimes insult women, gays, Jews, Canadians, Presbyterians, whoever? It's, is she/he equal opportunity about it? Because we all do deserve to be laughed at.
I disagree with this unfortunately commonly held notion. I heard it explained pretty well on the Yo! Is this Racist? Podcast - a lot of people claim that comedy reveals the truth, so when people take shots at certain groups it should be ok because it's the truth, revealing uncomfortable realities, laughing at "ourselves," etc.
The question though it "whose truth?" When a white comedian makes racist jokes for example, especially the "ironic" kind, for a white audience, it can be illustrative for that audience because it reveals their truth - that sometimes they think that way and are ashamed to admit it. But for the group that is the subject matter of the jokes, it's rarely their truth, and further I think the truth of those groups is better delivered from "inside the culture" for a variety of reasons, especially with groups already marginalized.
That's beside the point of Trevor Noah, whose tweets on Jews/women I find distasteful but not that different from, yeah, anything Tosh.0 does, and also this isn't a straight news program so it's not like finding out Rachel Maddow makes similar tweets.
But "equal opportunity offender" isn't a useful measure.
posted by zutalors! at 11:15 AM on March 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
I disagree with this unfortunately commonly held notion. I heard it explained pretty well on the Yo! Is this Racist? Podcast - a lot of people claim that comedy reveals the truth, so when people take shots at certain groups it should be ok because it's the truth, revealing uncomfortable realities, laughing at "ourselves," etc.
The question though it "whose truth?" When a white comedian makes racist jokes for example, especially the "ironic" kind, for a white audience, it can be illustrative for that audience because it reveals their truth - that sometimes they think that way and are ashamed to admit it. But for the group that is the subject matter of the jokes, it's rarely their truth, and further I think the truth of those groups is better delivered from "inside the culture" for a variety of reasons, especially with groups already marginalized.
That's beside the point of Trevor Noah, whose tweets on Jews/women I find distasteful but not that different from, yeah, anything Tosh.0 does, and also this isn't a straight news program so it's not like finding out Rachel Maddow makes similar tweets.
But "equal opportunity offender" isn't a useful measure.
posted by zutalors! at 11:15 AM on March 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm agnostic on the merits of the choice, but amazed that Comedy Central bungled the rollout this badly. Did it get leaked and they had to scramble? Maybe they couldn’t have scrubbed the Twitter feed, but at least head the inevitable off at the pass.
I think this controversy is probably only a big deal in smaller progressive circles. The (inter)national headline by-and-large is still "Trevor who?".
posted by Think_Long at 11:24 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think this controversy is probably only a big deal in smaller progressive circles. The (inter)national headline by-and-large is still "Trevor who?".
posted by Think_Long at 11:24 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
But progressive circles are the people who watch (and circulate Daily Show clips) religiously. Stirring up a crisis among your core demo is a pretty bad way to manage your fraught transition unless the plan is to actually abandon that demo altogether.
posted by gerryblog at 11:27 AM on March 31, 2015
posted by gerryblog at 11:27 AM on March 31, 2015
The "equal opportunity" thing has been used to justify the work of some truly reprehensible acts. Carlos Mencia and Tosh come to mind.
There is some truth to it though. If you see somebody singling out one group for all their most cutting jokes, it's pretty easy to assume they have a problem with said group.
It is also completely possible for somebody to be a complete asshole to everybody while still just being a complete asshole.
This is all incredibly complicated, so color me shocked that things go haywire when the most popular method of communication allows for exactly 1.5 well constructed sentences.
posted by lattiboy at 11:34 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is some truth to it though. If you see somebody singling out one group for all their most cutting jokes, it's pretty easy to assume they have a problem with said group.
It is also completely possible for somebody to be a complete asshole to everybody while still just being a complete asshole.
This is all incredibly complicated, so color me shocked that things go haywire when the most popular method of communication allows for exactly 1.5 well constructed sentences.
posted by lattiboy at 11:34 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nothing will happen, I've heard similar on the Daily Show over the years.
People keep saying this, but I don't remember Jon Stewart ever making a mean-spirited joke using the words "fat chicks".
Anyway, it doesn't matter whether similarly offensive things have been said on the Daily Show before. If this guy gets in trouble, it won't be for saying offensive things. It'll be for making his target demographic immediately dislike him and not want to watch him. Stewart and Colbert could get away with the occasional questionable joke because they had built up enough capital to get their audiences to overlook their mistakes. All I know about this guy is that he tells racist and misogynist jokes and I would probably hate him.
posted by painquale at 11:41 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
People keep saying this, but I don't remember Jon Stewart ever making a mean-spirited joke using the words "fat chicks".
Anyway, it doesn't matter whether similarly offensive things have been said on the Daily Show before. If this guy gets in trouble, it won't be for saying offensive things. It'll be for making his target demographic immediately dislike him and not want to watch him. Stewart and Colbert could get away with the occasional questionable joke because they had built up enough capital to get their audiences to overlook their mistakes. All I know about this guy is that he tells racist and misogynist jokes and I would probably hate him.
posted by painquale at 11:41 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
But progressive circles are the people who watch (and circulate Daily Show clips) religiously. Stirring up a crisis among your core demo is a pretty bad way to manage your fraught transition unless the plan is to actually abandon that demo altogether.
But what if your core demo treats basically every decision and person as a crisis in waiting?
posted by lattiboy at 11:51 AM on March 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
But what if your core demo treats basically every decision and person as a crisis in waiting?
posted by lattiboy at 11:51 AM on March 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I take it as a given that even my very favorite comedians have said and/or done offensive shit. Aside from the "equal opportunity offender," thing, which I agree isn't too useful a metric, I figure it's just part of the medium. I'm guessing literally every single comedian has made multiple offensive, distasteful, -ist jokes at various open mic nights and comedy shows as they develop their material and their style. The difference is now a lot of comedians do that testing out on Twitter, where every single tweet can live forever, whether it's unfunny or funny, offensive or unobjectionable. Where before, you might have had a few people saying "oh yeah, that guy's funny, but I saw him at this club and he made some really shitty jokes about fat people," now that shitty joke is preserved for all to see. And the heckling or approval or other responses to it are also preserved forever. It's just a very different, new dynamic for comedy, plus I think The Daily Show still struggles with handling its status as something more than a comedy show.
Everyone's entitled to their own feelings, obviously, and I'm not in favor of policing anyone's emotional reactions to material that hurts them. But I don't know, dude's had a twitter for years, he's young, there's bound to be shitty stuff there. I have some problems with the call out culture online where we find out someone did/said something shitty and then that person is Awful Forever.
posted by yasaman at 11:54 AM on March 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
Everyone's entitled to their own feelings, obviously, and I'm not in favor of policing anyone's emotional reactions to material that hurts them. But I don't know, dude's had a twitter for years, he's young, there's bound to be shitty stuff there. I have some problems with the call out culture online where we find out someone did/said something shitty and then that person is Awful Forever.
posted by yasaman at 11:54 AM on March 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
Twitter is just a lot easier to search through.
posted by smackfu at 11:55 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by smackfu at 11:55 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm completely unconvinced that the Daily Show's core demo cares at all about the occasional fat chick or domestic violence joke.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:56 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:56 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
People keep saying this, but I don't remember Jon Stewart ever making a mean-spirited joke using the words "fat chicks".
So if, say, Jon Stewart puts on a fat suit after vacation at the Jersey Shore, the joke being that now he's too gross for TV and probably has diabetes, that's acceptable because he didn't say "fat chicks"?
Jon Stewart makes jokes negative towards fat people all the time. I remember quite a few of them when New York was trying to ban large sodas. He's also made fat jokes targeted directly at Chris Christie, and Christie called him out on the show for it.
I'm not saying this to excuse Trevor Noah's tweets - I just find it interesting when people decide to start paying attention to anti-fat bias.
I'm completely unconvinced that the Daily Show's core demo cares at all about the occasional fat chick or domestic violence joke.
Yep, pretty much.
posted by muddgirl at 11:58 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
So if, say, Jon Stewart puts on a fat suit after vacation at the Jersey Shore, the joke being that now he's too gross for TV and probably has diabetes, that's acceptable because he didn't say "fat chicks"?
Jon Stewart makes jokes negative towards fat people all the time. I remember quite a few of them when New York was trying to ban large sodas. He's also made fat jokes targeted directly at Chris Christie, and Christie called him out on the show for it.
I'm not saying this to excuse Trevor Noah's tweets - I just find it interesting when people decide to start paying attention to anti-fat bias.
I'm completely unconvinced that the Daily Show's core demo cares at all about the occasional fat chick or domestic violence joke.
Yep, pretty much.
posted by muddgirl at 11:58 AM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Stewart was a male comic of the 80s/90s comedy boom - there is no way he didn't say some incredibly offensive shit during that era.
I choose to judge Noah from his produced comedy pieces, where his comic brand seems pretty personal and breezy, and far from comedy's worst offenders (and bad twitter jokes), and I hope he grows into the role.
posted by Think_Long at 12:24 PM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I choose to judge Noah from his produced comedy pieces, where his comic brand seems pretty personal and breezy, and far from comedy's worst offenders (and bad twitter jokes), and I hope he grows into the role.
posted by Think_Long at 12:24 PM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
It appears Comedy Central is standing by him with a completely rational response:
"Like many comedians, Trevor Noah pushes boundaries; he is provocative and spares no one, himself included. To judge him or his comedy based on a handful of jokes is unfair. Trevor is a talented comedian with a bright future at Comedy Central.”
Again, I think this guy is not very funny and I wouldn't have picked him, but the "crisis" about his Twitter jokes from when he was 25 is such a pile of horseshit I find myself routing for him.
posted by lattiboy at 12:27 PM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Like many comedians, Trevor Noah pushes boundaries; he is provocative and spares no one, himself included. To judge him or his comedy based on a handful of jokes is unfair. Trevor is a talented comedian with a bright future at Comedy Central.”
Again, I think this guy is not very funny and I wouldn't have picked him, but the "crisis" about his Twitter jokes from when he was 25 is such a pile of horseshit I find myself routing for him.
posted by lattiboy at 12:27 PM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Again, I think this guy is not very funny and I wouldn't have picked him, but the "crisis" about his Twitter jokes from when he was 25 is such a pile of horseshit I find myself routing for him.
posted by lattiboy at 3:27 PM on March 31 [1 favorite +] [!]
You're gonna handle all his IP packets from now on? That's pretty generous.
posted by edbles at 1:31 PM on March 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by lattiboy at 3:27 PM on March 31 [1 favorite +] [!]
You're gonna handle all his IP packets from now on? That's pretty generous.
posted by edbles at 1:31 PM on March 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
Stewart was a male comic of the 80s/90s comedy boom - there is no way he didn't say some incredibly offensive shit during that era.
The difference is there was no Twitter in the 80s to mine for material to feed the perpetual need for internet outrage.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:43 PM on March 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
The difference is there was no Twitter in the 80s to mine for material to feed the perpetual need for internet outrage.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:43 PM on March 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
I wonder how much difference it will make that Noah is himself part Jewish -- his mother is half-Jewish, half-Xhosa. Jon Stewart made boatloads of Jewish jokes and impressions throughout his tenure, but he largely got a pass because it was his own heritage he was poking fun at (that, and he actually is an equal-opportunity offender).
posted by Rhaomi at 1:45 PM on March 31, 2015
posted by Rhaomi at 1:45 PM on March 31, 2015
The difference is there was no Twitter in the 80s to mine for material to feed the perpetual need for internet outrage.
I think Michael Richards was the first one caught out by, "oh wow, small comedy club sets are not private any more."
posted by smackfu at 1:46 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think Michael Richards was the first one caught out by, "oh wow, small comedy club sets are not private any more."
posted by smackfu at 1:46 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
The freakout about Noah's tweets is reminding me of when I saw Stewart do standup in college, because I distinctly remember some lolgay jokes. And this was just after he'd started on The Daily Show, if I remember correctly. It's disappointing, sure, but it's not new.
posted by tchemgrrl at 2:00 PM on March 31, 2015
posted by tchemgrrl at 2:00 PM on March 31, 2015
So if, say, Jon Stewart puts on a fat suit after vacation at the Jersey Shore [...] He's also made fat jokes targeted directly at Chris Christie, and Christie called him out on the show for it.
I can't and won't defend Stewart's choices there, but I don't find those examples nearly as mean-spirited and gross as Noah's tweets.
I also don't buy the argument that all comedians tweet like this and are offensive when trying out new material. There are plenty who aren't nearly this tacky.
posted by painquale at 2:51 PM on March 31, 2015
I can't and won't defend Stewart's choices there, but I don't find those examples nearly as mean-spirited and gross as Noah's tweets.
I also don't buy the argument that all comedians tweet like this and are offensive when trying out new material. There are plenty who aren't nearly this tacky.
posted by painquale at 2:51 PM on March 31, 2015
Welp
MTV Africa Music Awards host Marlon Wayans managed last night to incense viewers across the continent by making a series of jokes at their expense – from cannibalism to the size of African women’s behinds, overshadowing talk about the actual musical performances and award winners.
posted by infini at 3:06 PM on March 31, 2015
MTV Africa Music Awards host Marlon Wayans managed last night to incense viewers across the continent by making a series of jokes at their expense – from cannibalism to the size of African women’s behinds, overshadowing talk about the actual musical performances and award winners.
posted by infini at 3:06 PM on March 31, 2015
some random action flick from fifteen years ago
Ahem, that was the film that Denzel won an Oscar for.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:10 PM on March 31, 2015
Ahem, that was the film that Denzel won an Oscar for.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:10 PM on March 31, 2015
but I don't find those examples nearly as mean-spirited and gross as Noah's tweets.
In my view, the difference is that Stewart's jokes made it through an extensive editorial process, but Noah's were off-the-cuff. A group of writers literally sat down and said, "Wouldn't it be funny if we made Jon Stewart and Brian Williams grossly obese?" How is that not mean spirited?
Maybe Noah's humor is generally anti-semitic, misogynist, and fat-hating. If so, I won't watch The Daily Show. But to pretend that Stewart hasn't relied on similar thoughtless frat-boy humor, and has been well-received for it, is rewriting history.
posted by muddgirl at 3:19 PM on March 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
In my view, the difference is that Stewart's jokes made it through an extensive editorial process, but Noah's were off-the-cuff. A group of writers literally sat down and said, "Wouldn't it be funny if we made Jon Stewart and Brian Williams grossly obese?" How is that not mean spirited?
Maybe Noah's humor is generally anti-semitic, misogynist, and fat-hating. If so, I won't watch The Daily Show. But to pretend that Stewart hasn't relied on similar thoughtless frat-boy humor, and has been well-received for it, is rewriting history.
posted by muddgirl at 3:19 PM on March 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
I wonder how much difference it will make that Noah is himself part Jewish -- his mother is half-Jewish, half-Xhosa."
Since he's not a Jewish woman, he's still punching down when he dips into misogyny against them. Personally, I think he's an asshole for using antisemitic stereotypes in jokes. He's perpetuating a problem. But that's just my opinion.
posted by zarq at 3:29 PM on March 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Since he's not a Jewish woman, he's still punching down when he dips into misogyny against them. Personally, I think he's an asshole for using antisemitic stereotypes in jokes. He's perpetuating a problem. But that's just my opinion.
posted by zarq at 3:29 PM on March 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I didn't like Stewart's "Jewish" jokes. The identity of the speaker matters, I guess, but it doesn't necessarily matter all that much. Also, self-deprecating racist humor gets appropriated by actual racists; that was reportedly why Dave Chappelle (semi) retired from comedy.
I think subordinating humor is generally regarded as passé; we've even passed the meta-humor stage of making jokes about people making jokes about it. The Simpsons (hardly cutting-edge!) had a joke about Homer laughing at a comedian's joke about "white people drive like this and black people drive like this." That was ten years ago.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:23 PM on March 31, 2015
I think subordinating humor is generally regarded as passé; we've even passed the meta-humor stage of making jokes about people making jokes about it. The Simpsons (hardly cutting-edge!) had a joke about Homer laughing at a comedian's joke about "white people drive like this and black people drive like this." That was ten years ago.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:23 PM on March 31, 2015
I wasn't familiar with this fellow until the Twitter outrage started. I checked out some of his schtick, and he reminds me of Russell Peters.
posted by Nevin at 5:35 PM on March 31, 2015
posted by Nevin at 5:35 PM on March 31, 2015
Ahem, that was the film that Denzel won an Oscar for.
After he was completely and utterly robbed for his portrayal of Malcolm X. Yes, I'm still mad.
posted by cashman at 5:35 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
After he was completely and utterly robbed for his portrayal of Malcolm X. Yes, I'm still mad.
posted by cashman at 5:35 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Has anyone turned from a beloved darling to a hated villain this quickly? Gotta love the digital age!
posted by Renoroc at 6:07 PM on March 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Renoroc at 6:07 PM on March 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
I got here late, I swear I disliked him before it was cool! I saw Noah's stand-up special on Netflix, and thought it was distinctly mediocre, and smug as hell. Maybe he does better in a TDS style format, but I'm doubting it. I'm ready to give up on the Comedy Central late night block, it had a great run, but looks like it's over. I really like Larry Wilmore, but can't stomach the format of his show. Oh well, the next great satire doesn't have to come from Comedy Central.
posted by skewed at 6:52 PM on March 31, 2015
posted by skewed at 6:52 PM on March 31, 2015
Homer laughing at a comedian's joke about "white people drive like this and black people drive like this." That was ten years ago.
posted by Joe in Australia
It was actually twenty years ago - Homer and Apu
posted by rosswald at 7:04 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia
It was actually twenty years ago - Homer and Apu
posted by rosswald at 7:04 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Simpsons (hardly cutting-edge!) had a joke about Homer laughing at a comedian's joke about "white people drive like this and black people drive like this." That was ten years ago.
Joe in Australia
It was 21 years ago, when the Simpsons was still kind of cutting edge.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:17 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Joe in Australia
It was 21 years ago, when the Simpsons was still kind of cutting edge.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:17 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Has anyone turned from a beloved darling to a hated villain this quickly? Gotta love the digital age!
Renoroc
Nah, as people have noted above, he's only turned into a villain in certain small circles that tend to be in a state of perpetual outrage. For the vast, vast majority people he's neither beloved nor hated but a complete unknown.
This incident will be completely forgotten in a few months and never mentioned or even thought of again if he does well on TDS.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:19 PM on March 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
Renoroc
Nah, as people have noted above, he's only turned into a villain in certain small circles that tend to be in a state of perpetual outrage. For the vast, vast majority people he's neither beloved nor hated but a complete unknown.
This incident will be completely forgotten in a few months and never mentioned or even thought of again if he does well on TDS.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:19 PM on March 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
METAFILTER: certain small circles that tend to be in a state of perpetual outrage
posted by philip-random at 9:35 PM on March 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 9:35 PM on March 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
"Our national addiction is 'umbrage.'... Everyone out there loves to be offended." - John Fugelsang on TV earlier.
posted by lattiboy at 11:35 PM on March 31, 2015
posted by lattiboy at 11:35 PM on March 31, 2015
I don't really feel bad about being disgusted by Noah tweeting "Originally when men proposed they went down on one knee so if the woman said no they were in the perfect uppercut position."
Just read it again. Nope, still disgusting.
posted by cashman at 6:26 AM on April 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Just read it again. Nope, still disgusting.
posted by cashman at 6:26 AM on April 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
It could also be read as calling men violent misogynists in the past.
posted by smackfu at 7:13 AM on April 1, 2015
posted by smackfu at 7:13 AM on April 1, 2015
What amazes me is when I've seen people citing his gross tweets, they're citing a different one every time. It creates an impression.
It's disappointing, but I don't think it'll make a difference in the end.
(I found Jon Stewart's jokes about Jews to be useful for explaining parts about Jewish-American culture and stereotypes to various midwesterners - I've ended up saying 'and that's why they mention Chinese food a lot on the Daily Show' an embarrassing number of times)
posted by dinty_moore at 10:44 AM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's disappointing, but I don't think it'll make a difference in the end.
(I found Jon Stewart's jokes about Jews to be useful for explaining parts about Jewish-American culture and stereotypes to various midwesterners - I've ended up saying 'and that's why they mention Chinese food a lot on the Daily Show' an embarrassing number of times)
posted by dinty_moore at 10:44 AM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was all ready to jump onboard the "Internet Outragefilter" bandwagon, but then I watched his stand up special. Guy has a "bad Asian drivers" joke in there. In his stand up special. That is supposed to be the best of his material, the stuff he wants to make sure everybody sees.
Granted, I'm sure that given a team of writers and a legion of studio, network, and production company minders to provide notes, he'll be fine at the job of hosting the Daily Show. But I'm a little irked at all the folks who think the issue is one or two old jokes from twitter that were taken out of context. The umbrage is deserved, whether it's something we're addicted to or not.
posted by Sara C. at 11:22 AM on April 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Granted, I'm sure that given a team of writers and a legion of studio, network, and production company minders to provide notes, he'll be fine at the job of hosting the Daily Show. But I'm a little irked at all the folks who think the issue is one or two old jokes from twitter that were taken out of context. The umbrage is deserved, whether it's something we're addicted to or not.
posted by Sara C. at 11:22 AM on April 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
True, but I think Amy Schumer's stuff is racist to the point of unwatchable but I don't think she should have her show taken away for it. I just don't want to watch it. And I'm disappointed that people can be all "she's smart about women" but don't care about her jokes about smelly Indians.
I also see the timeline as people being like "Who? In Jon's place? I have never heard of this person and more than that never think about comedy and specifically social responsiblity in comedy. Oh let's look at Twitter. OH NO OUTRAGE" It's not like there's a lot of thoughtful context behind criticism of Trevor Noah that this was built on (I have seen some).
posted by zutalors! at 1:29 PM on April 1, 2015
I also see the timeline as people being like "Who? In Jon's place? I have never heard of this person and more than that never think about comedy and specifically social responsiblity in comedy. Oh let's look at Twitter. OH NO OUTRAGE" It's not like there's a lot of thoughtful context behind criticism of Trevor Noah that this was built on (I have seen some).
posted by zutalors! at 1:29 PM on April 1, 2015
Trevor Noah sent 8,882 tweets. Some weren't funny. Get over it
posted by philip-random at 1:35 PM on April 1, 2015
That article is so poorly written. It doesn't even go into the content of the tweets. You can't just say "Oh Michael Richards was trying to be funny...lighten up!" "Oh Daniel Tosh's rape joke was just an attempt at a joke - just laugh it off!"
No. In case people need reminding, standards have changed and continue to change. You can't say things that were acceptable to many in years past. If Eddie Murphy did that guy-on-top-of-the-police-car routine two years ago he would get skewered.
In New Jack City terms, we're looking for a New Jack cop that can take down the (anti-progressive) Nino Browns of the world. And making jokes about punching women in the face when they reject your advances and not bothering to apologize in the least just isn't going to cut it. Whatever the Daily Show turned into the past few years it was darn sure worth more than that.
posted by cashman at 1:47 PM on April 1, 2015
No. In case people need reminding, standards have changed and continue to change. You can't say things that were acceptable to many in years past. If Eddie Murphy did that guy-on-top-of-the-police-car routine two years ago he would get skewered.
In New Jack City terms, we're looking for a New Jack cop that can take down the (anti-progressive) Nino Browns of the world. And making jokes about punching women in the face when they reject your advances and not bothering to apologize in the least just isn't going to cut it. Whatever the Daily Show turned into the past few years it was darn sure worth more than that.
posted by cashman at 1:47 PM on April 1, 2015
I don't think that the Michael Richards and Daniel Tosh things are the same because they targeted individual people in the audience, saying they would like to see those people lynched and raped. I'm just saying I think I would feel really differently if there were a similar incident with Noah - it might be out there though I dunno. I mostly only saw his stuff on QI and Daily Show.
posted by zutalors! at 1:51 PM on April 1, 2015
posted by zutalors! at 1:51 PM on April 1, 2015
Also – and I admit, I might be missing something, but most of the backlash I’ve seen have been mostly people saying ‘I’m disappointed’ and ‘I’m not going to watch it’ and ‘Wow, Comedy Central and Noah didn’t even consider scrubbing that?’, not ‘this person should never have a TV show’. There seems to be a lot more energy placed on calling out people for thinking he shouldn’t be a host than there is people suggesting he shouldn’t be the host.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:56 PM on April 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by dinty_moore at 1:56 PM on April 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm not even in the boat of "omg not going to watch" or "disappointed". I'm sure he'll be as good a host of The Daily Show as anyone else, and it's all going to be fine, and I'll probably watch sometimes.
I just think it's frustrating to see so many people who clearly are not in any way familiar with Trevor Noah's work suggesting that the issue is jokes that didn't land, or some out of context tweets from a million years ago. I heard about this whole thing and figured it was just outragefilter, and then I looked into it and it turns out to be pretty legit.
If you're going to make racist and misogynist jokes, and put them in your stand up special, I think it's fair that other people might watch that stand up special and pass judgment.
posted by Sara C. at 2:17 PM on April 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just think it's frustrating to see so many people who clearly are not in any way familiar with Trevor Noah's work suggesting that the issue is jokes that didn't land, or some out of context tweets from a million years ago. I heard about this whole thing and figured it was just outragefilter, and then I looked into it and it turns out to be pretty legit.
If you're going to make racist and misogynist jokes, and put them in your stand up special, I think it's fair that other people might watch that stand up special and pass judgment.
posted by Sara C. at 2:17 PM on April 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I watched African American also. As soon as he started talking about the bad driver he encountered, I knew the driver would turn out to be Asian. I found that annoying and predictable. There's also a joke in that special about how a person's voice should change when you choke them, but a Valley Girl's doesn't because they speak wrong. That one was pretty icky. It seems like some of the time, he goes for the lazy stereotype layup instead of finding a different and more inventive way of saying things. That's disappointing when it happens.
There were also other jokes in there about race and not belonging and politics. I thought a lot of those were pretty good. He has a real talent for accents, and while someone compared him to Russell Peters above, I noticed that the person with the accent is almost never the butt of the joke he's telling, and the accents sound real and not exaggerated for effect. With Russell Peters, the accent itself is the joke. With Trevor Noah, it seems like his flawed attempts to connect with different people and cultures is the joke.
I watched his first special, The Daywalker, last night, and I was struck by how much more relaxed and natural he seemed in front of a South African audience than the American audience of African American. His characters seemed a lot more interesting and less hackneyed, although that might be because I don't know anything about South African culture so it was all new to me. There also weren't really any of the same broad stereotypes (that I'm familiar with, anyway); his jokes seemed much more specific. I wonder if, when he goes to the tired lazy well in African American, it's because he thinks that that stuff will make inroads more easily, or maybe because he doesn't know enough about American culture to put the surface stuff aside. He really does come across as not entirely getting it in the American special: people have pointed out the "that you?" thing, but he also talks about Indian Americans and calling them Native Americans (speaking of jokes that don't land, his "wouldn't a Native American just be...American?" line is both rationally correct and dead on arrival). It took me a minute to realize that he was talking about "American Indians" and not "Indian-Americans", a distinction which I think a lot of us make easily but which he doesn't seem aware of.
Anyway, perhaps echoing Sara C.'s point, he has three or four stand-up specials (depending on how you classify a documentary about his stand-up career) and a few extended televised bits. I want to watch them before I come to any conclusions about his general perspective or body of work. So far, it's mostly pretty good with a few spots of "ugh, dude, really?", and there's an occasional misogyny that I find troublesome but can't decide if it's "just" going for the cheap shot or indicative of a held opinion.
posted by Errant at 2:48 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
There were also other jokes in there about race and not belonging and politics. I thought a lot of those were pretty good. He has a real talent for accents, and while someone compared him to Russell Peters above, I noticed that the person with the accent is almost never the butt of the joke he's telling, and the accents sound real and not exaggerated for effect. With Russell Peters, the accent itself is the joke. With Trevor Noah, it seems like his flawed attempts to connect with different people and cultures is the joke.
I watched his first special, The Daywalker, last night, and I was struck by how much more relaxed and natural he seemed in front of a South African audience than the American audience of African American. His characters seemed a lot more interesting and less hackneyed, although that might be because I don't know anything about South African culture so it was all new to me. There also weren't really any of the same broad stereotypes (that I'm familiar with, anyway); his jokes seemed much more specific. I wonder if, when he goes to the tired lazy well in African American, it's because he thinks that that stuff will make inroads more easily, or maybe because he doesn't know enough about American culture to put the surface stuff aside. He really does come across as not entirely getting it in the American special: people have pointed out the "that you?" thing, but he also talks about Indian Americans and calling them Native Americans (speaking of jokes that don't land, his "wouldn't a Native American just be...American?" line is both rationally correct and dead on arrival). It took me a minute to realize that he was talking about "American Indians" and not "Indian-Americans", a distinction which I think a lot of us make easily but which he doesn't seem aware of.
Anyway, perhaps echoing Sara C.'s point, he has three or four stand-up specials (depending on how you classify a documentary about his stand-up career) and a few extended televised bits. I want to watch them before I come to any conclusions about his general perspective or body of work. So far, it's mostly pretty good with a few spots of "ugh, dude, really?", and there's an occasional misogyny that I find troublesome but can't decide if it's "just" going for the cheap shot or indicative of a held opinion.
posted by Errant at 2:48 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Misogyny, among other things, is a challenge more often faced by South African women (think Reeva, think GBV) than many others
SA's gender relations aren't really the best.
posted by infini at 3:13 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
SA's gender relations aren't really the best.
posted by infini at 3:13 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Re the "Indian-American" part of that special, he also goes into a whole thing about how white people don't get hyphens, and while I got his point, and it's a really good one that we definitely need to hear (and is along the lines of the kinds of stuff I hope he will do on TDS), ummmmmmm, yeah, white people definitely get the whole "nationality-American" treatment. It's just that, for white people, it's a chosen aspect of ethnic pride, not a way to mark you as Other.
(Not a comment on Trevor Noah and racism or anything, just another example of how a lot of this might be down to a degree of unfamiliarity with American culture.)
posted by Sara C. at 3:23 PM on April 1, 2015
(Not a comment on Trevor Noah and racism or anything, just another example of how a lot of this might be down to a degree of unfamiliarity with American culture.)
posted by Sara C. at 3:23 PM on April 1, 2015
It's about this point in discussions that I start imagining what a Jay Smooth video about this will be like. I sure hope he does one.
posted by cashman at 3:27 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 3:27 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I hope it's good, because Patton Oswalt's rant made me sad. And I'm a huge Patton fan and typically think his commentary on issues like this is on point.
posted by Sara C. at 3:28 PM on April 1, 2015
posted by Sara C. at 3:28 PM on April 1, 2015
"The fact that your fave is problematic isn’t a big deal — the big deal is if we ignore it. Patricia Arquette’s Oscar speech was entitled, privileged and racially insensitive. Tina Fey’s new show is racist, Trevor Noah has made transphobic and sexist and anti-Semitic jokes, Lena Dunham’s feminism is very privileged and largely excludes women of color. They have contributed to systems of injustice that oppress others. These things are all true.https://medium.com/matter/admit-it-your-fave-is-problematic-2dfa692f557b
Patricia Arquette is a dedicated women’s rights activist and a talented actress, Tina Fey is a ground-breaking comedic writer who has opened doors for many women, Trevor Noah is a very talented comedian whose new role as host of The Daily Show is important to the visibility of people of color in the media, Lena Dunham is a very talented writer who has accomplished great things at a young age and has changed the way we view young women in the arts. These things are also true.
So can we just talk about it?"
posted by catchingsignals at 3:40 PM on April 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Oswalt seems to be, I don't know, backing down a little bit. Or something.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:00 PM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:00 PM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
He also retweeted Lindy West's "i've said hurtful things & so has jon stewart & i will give trevor noah a chance & criticizing him is good & i am weary of being a punchline" and said "I also agree with the @thelindywest sentiment I just RT'd. COMEDY IS MESSY AND I WANT IT TO STAY THAT WAY sorry for shouting." So I guess I'm not entirely sure what his point is.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:10 PM on April 1, 2015
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:10 PM on April 1, 2015
I think it's largely a continuation of this: Salon's Patton Oswalt peace summit
posted by Errant at 6:11 PM on April 1, 2015
posted by Errant at 6:11 PM on April 1, 2015
Can't speak for Patton specifically, but all my comedy buds, especially the folks who do a lot of twitter joke writing and who are also standups, are very much circling the wagons on the whole Trevor Noah thing. I'm seeing a combination of stuff, from Patton's SJW-baiting to something very reminiscent of the whole Paula Deen thing where people who want to support another standup will bend over backwards to minimize the situation, framing it as jokes taken out of context or jokes not intended for general public consumption. When the reality is that, on the whole, Trevor Noah's work is actually quite "problematic" (as much as I hate that term).
posted by Sara C. at 7:33 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 7:33 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just watched Crazy/Normal, and it was brilliant. He goes for 90+ minutes, all over the map, and I was cracking up pretty much the entire time. Much, much better than African American, with a great deal more finesse and control. If I were Trevor Noah, that's the special I'd be pointing people toward. There's also very little sign of the lazy, cheap humor found in those tweets, or indeed in some of the misfires in the most recent special, which seem increasingly like aberrations and not representative of his work.
The thing I can't figure out, though, is where that stuff in those tweets is coming from. I've watched three specials of his now, about 4 hours of comedy, and I can't recall a single fat joke or Jewish joke. Is he just saving up his worst comic tendencies for the shittiest throwaway medium possible? Is it another case of someone being the basest version of themself on the internet? It's really weird to me.
posted by Errant at 8:19 PM on April 1, 2015
The thing I can't figure out, though, is where that stuff in those tweets is coming from. I've watched three specials of his now, about 4 hours of comedy, and I can't recall a single fat joke or Jewish joke. Is he just saving up his worst comic tendencies for the shittiest throwaway medium possible? Is it another case of someone being the basest version of themself on the internet? It's really weird to me.
posted by Errant at 8:19 PM on April 1, 2015
I think it's a mix of things.
On a certain level, people do use twitter to test new material, and I don't think there's the sense within the comedy community that a joke on twitter is some kind of press release meant for intense public scrutiny for all time. It's much more like a semi-public brainstorming board, and much less like This Is Who I Am. So you very well might see jokes on someone's twitter that aren't representative of their overall work.
Also, folks are right that these tweets aren't terribly recent, so it could be that Trevor used to make antisemitic jokes and now he doesn't anymore. He's a young comic, and he's pretty inexperienced, which means his voice is still maturing.
Thirdly, a lot of the stuff people are calling him out for, especially the tweets, are just shitty garden variety mcjokes that a playground bully or that annoyingly out of touch coworker would parrot. My guess is that there was a point where he felt like he didn't have enough material, so he padded his more sharp and specific work out with the standard lazy "fat chicks amirite" garbage that you'll hear at every open mic all over America. This is actually my biggest beef with Noah, and the only real reason that his role on TDS gives me pause. Because I fucking HATE that type of comedy. I hate really anybody who sees the world so narrowly, and isn't curious, and isn't interested in telling the truth, or in even imagining the possibilities of a world beyond white girls with flat asses and rich Jews and stinky Indians and Asians who can't drive. I didn't get the sense that Jon Stewart was that way, and that sort of comic really is the worst of what Comedy Central tends to promote.
posted by Sara C. at 9:51 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
On a certain level, people do use twitter to test new material, and I don't think there's the sense within the comedy community that a joke on twitter is some kind of press release meant for intense public scrutiny for all time. It's much more like a semi-public brainstorming board, and much less like This Is Who I Am. So you very well might see jokes on someone's twitter that aren't representative of their overall work.
Also, folks are right that these tweets aren't terribly recent, so it could be that Trevor used to make antisemitic jokes and now he doesn't anymore. He's a young comic, and he's pretty inexperienced, which means his voice is still maturing.
Thirdly, a lot of the stuff people are calling him out for, especially the tweets, are just shitty garden variety mcjokes that a playground bully or that annoyingly out of touch coworker would parrot. My guess is that there was a point where he felt like he didn't have enough material, so he padded his more sharp and specific work out with the standard lazy "fat chicks amirite" garbage that you'll hear at every open mic all over America. This is actually my biggest beef with Noah, and the only real reason that his role on TDS gives me pause. Because I fucking HATE that type of comedy. I hate really anybody who sees the world so narrowly, and isn't curious, and isn't interested in telling the truth, or in even imagining the possibilities of a world beyond white girls with flat asses and rich Jews and stinky Indians and Asians who can't drive. I didn't get the sense that Jon Stewart was that way, and that sort of comic really is the worst of what Comedy Central tends to promote.
posted by Sara C. at 9:51 PM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, folks are right that these tweets aren't terribly recent, so it could be that Trevor used to make antisemitic jokes and now he doesn't anymore. He's a young comic, and he's pretty inexperienced, which means his voice is still maturing.
Yes. He said as much a couple of days ago: "To reduce my views to a handful of jokes that didn’t land is not a true reflection of my character, nor my evolution as a comedian.” A defense, not an apology.
I didn't get the sense that Jon Stewart was that way
Stewart made his share of jokes that punched down. Especially against fat people. But his humor was different. He was very self-deprecating -- especially about being Jewish. (His knowledge of Judaism sometimes seemed limited (or was just wrong), but it was enough for his audience.) And he spent a lot of time defending minority groups (and the downtrodden) from the majority.
I always thought he really shined during interviews, though. Not just the "news reporting" segments.
News network/show anchors who interview newsmakers use different tactics and conversational rhythms than talk show hosts, who interview a more general range of people. The news anchors try to be more aggressively knowledgeable and keep the conversation focused and grounded with a clear message and specific talking points. Some may treat their guests sort of like hostile witnesses. Talk show hosts get to be more laid back. They have the luxury of being able to gently listen, empathize, interact and guide conversations with their guests.
This is one of the reasons why people like Matt Lauer sometimes have difficulty interviewing 'light' guests effectively. And why someone like Jimmy Fallon would likely be a terrible news anchor. Different skill sets. Different goals. Different strengths.
Stewart ran a show that straddled both categories, and was exceptionally good at it in part because he was able to blend the best of both styles. A friendly optimist. Incisive, but empathetic. He allowed a guest to speak their mind, but tried to keep them honest. I'm curious to see what, if anything, he does next.
posted by zarq at 7:28 AM on April 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes. He said as much a couple of days ago: "To reduce my views to a handful of jokes that didn’t land is not a true reflection of my character, nor my evolution as a comedian.” A defense, not an apology.
I didn't get the sense that Jon Stewart was that way
Stewart made his share of jokes that punched down. Especially against fat people. But his humor was different. He was very self-deprecating -- especially about being Jewish. (His knowledge of Judaism sometimes seemed limited (or was just wrong), but it was enough for his audience.) And he spent a lot of time defending minority groups (and the downtrodden) from the majority.
I always thought he really shined during interviews, though. Not just the "news reporting" segments.
News network/show anchors who interview newsmakers use different tactics and conversational rhythms than talk show hosts, who interview a more general range of people. The news anchors try to be more aggressively knowledgeable and keep the conversation focused and grounded with a clear message and specific talking points. Some may treat their guests sort of like hostile witnesses. Talk show hosts get to be more laid back. They have the luxury of being able to gently listen, empathize, interact and guide conversations with their guests.
This is one of the reasons why people like Matt Lauer sometimes have difficulty interviewing 'light' guests effectively. And why someone like Jimmy Fallon would likely be a terrible news anchor. Different skill sets. Different goals. Different strengths.
Stewart ran a show that straddled both categories, and was exceptionally good at it in part because he was able to blend the best of both styles. A friendly optimist. Incisive, but empathetic. He allowed a guest to speak their mind, but tried to keep them honest. I'm curious to see what, if anything, he does next.
posted by zarq at 7:28 AM on April 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I appreciated this piece (along with Ijeoma Oluo's piece posted above) Trevor Noah’s Offensive Tweets Should Be an Opportunity for Learning — Not Outrage. There seem to be some signs of a new trend of not leaping to calls for heads to roll while still insisting on the value of calling problematic things out, and I think I'm liking it.
posted by naoko at 9:47 AM on April 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by naoko at 9:47 AM on April 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Paging Mr Godwin: Comedian Trevor Noah Has a Friend Named Hitler
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:09 PM on April 2, 2015
“In many parts of Africa… people would name their children after great leaders,” Noah said, emphasizing that “great” does not necessarily mean “good,” but rather someone who has “really changed the world.”I don't think this means that Noah is a bad guy; I do think it indicates that he lacks cultural insight. The fact that he phrased it in the present tense ("who is it that scares the man who oppresses me?") is a bit worrying, though; he probably didn't mean anything by it, but that sort of obliviousness reinforces my feeling that he has no business interpreting current affairs.
“Hitler was so big that he forced white South Africans, who at the time were racist, to ask black South Africans to go to war with them to help fight,” Noah added.
And for blacks, he explained, there is a feeling, “? Who’s that dude? Because that’s the guy I want to meet.”
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:09 PM on April 2, 2015
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posted by eriko at 8:09 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]