In France, we live in the être [to be].
November 10, 2018 7:58 AM Subscribe
Why the French don't show excitement - an article by Emily Monaco for BBC Travel, containing linguistic, historical and philosophical observations.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Heya, sorry, these kind of slim articles based on "untranslateability" between cultures are well/lightly-intended but often end up with fighting and alienation, which is, i'm very sure, not what was aimed for here -- LobsterMitten
This is a really, really weak article.
But it's the sort that Americans love to read: an American who listens to a single person (only one is quoted at the start, and they are vaguely described as "a French teacher") tell them something that lights a bulb and all hail the ecstasy of enlightenment... which is nothing but the equivalent of learning something new.
When you learn something new, generally you recognize that, being new, it's shiny and seems quite whole and complete, whereas adults generally figure out that it's an illusion; it's going to be just as complex and ambivalent and filled with exceptions as everything else in life ends up being.
A verb equivalent to "aroused" does exist in French: allumer.
It is also entirely possible to be excited (emotionally) for something, and can be expressed in many ways, the most common being je suis content(e). You can say je suis contente que le week-end arrive, je suis contente d'avoir terminé mon travail, je suis contente que tu sois contente... (being a woman I've used the feminine form of the adjective content).
It gets less page views than facile stereotyping though.
I've literally never heard anyone say je m'enthousiasme, and I studied literature in France at Masters level, with some courses the same as for doctoral students. If they don't say it, I doubt anyone would – it's very literary.
If I may generalize a bit: the cultural difference comes in at the intimacy level. In the US one gets "excited" in American terms in public and it's fine; it's much less fine in France as it's seen polite to spare strangers your quirks of sentiment – one exception being gruffness and grumpiness, which is accepted publicly because it keeps others at a distance, whereas being enthusiastic is seen as grabbing/pulling others in, which is boundary-crossing. When you start to trust someone, you start to share excitement.
I've probably written all this for nothing because I don't think weak articles generalizing about foreign cultures that hardly pass blog-post muster should be single FPPs. But I've also been around long enough to recognize that when it's France, everyone thinks it's okay to behave in ways that get shot down for any other people/culture.
posted by fraula at 8:53 AM on November 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
But it's the sort that Americans love to read: an American who listens to a single person (only one is quoted at the start, and they are vaguely described as "a French teacher") tell them something that lights a bulb and all hail the ecstasy of enlightenment... which is nothing but the equivalent of learning something new.
When you learn something new, generally you recognize that, being new, it's shiny and seems quite whole and complete, whereas adults generally figure out that it's an illusion; it's going to be just as complex and ambivalent and filled with exceptions as everything else in life ends up being.
A verb equivalent to "aroused" does exist in French: allumer.
It is also entirely possible to be excited (emotionally) for something, and can be expressed in many ways, the most common being je suis content(e). You can say je suis contente que le week-end arrive, je suis contente d'avoir terminé mon travail, je suis contente que tu sois contente... (being a woman I've used the feminine form of the adjective content).
It gets less page views than facile stereotyping though.
I've literally never heard anyone say je m'enthousiasme, and I studied literature in France at Masters level, with some courses the same as for doctoral students. If they don't say it, I doubt anyone would – it's very literary.
If I may generalize a bit: the cultural difference comes in at the intimacy level. In the US one gets "excited" in American terms in public and it's fine; it's much less fine in France as it's seen polite to spare strangers your quirks of sentiment – one exception being gruffness and grumpiness, which is accepted publicly because it keeps others at a distance, whereas being enthusiastic is seen as grabbing/pulling others in, which is boundary-crossing. When you start to trust someone, you start to share excitement.
I've probably written all this for nothing because I don't think weak articles generalizing about foreign cultures that hardly pass blog-post muster should be single FPPs. But I've also been around long enough to recognize that when it's France, everyone thinks it's okay to behave in ways that get shot down for any other people/culture.
posted by fraula at 8:53 AM on November 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
My personal experience with the French is that they can become quite animated indeed, to a degree that I as an American would normally (within my own cultural context) consider borderline inappropriate. But of course, there are 67 million people in France so just maybe there's some individual variation?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:55 AM on November 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:55 AM on November 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Pas vraiment?
I think this has less to do with the French and more to do with the French's misinterpretation of Americans.
posted by Automocar at 8:56 AM on November 10, 2018
I think this has less to do with the French and more to do with the French's misinterpretation of Americans.
posted by Automocar at 8:56 AM on November 10, 2018
“I think there is something cultural about the greater level of reservation French people tend to show in everyday conversation,” Dr King said. “From my perspective, it doesn't mean they show less enthusiasm, but perhaps less of an emotional investment in things they are enthusiastic about.”
I can’t help thinking about the post we had here, which I can’t find, about a French cheesemonger who refused to sell someone a certain cheese because the man had stated his intention to make a fondue with it, which was, he maintained, incorrect.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:57 AM on November 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I can’t help thinking about the post we had here, which I can’t find, about a French cheesemonger who refused to sell someone a certain cheese because the man had stated his intention to make a fondue with it, which was, he maintained, incorrect.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:57 AM on November 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
That would be fonduegate. It wasn't that simple (nothing ever is, but oversimplification about the French that makes Americans feel better is pretty par for the course).
posted by fraula at 8:59 AM on November 10, 2018
posted by fraula at 8:59 AM on November 10, 2018
That's enthusiasm! That's real emotional investment at personal cost. I hope to visit France one day, and if someone there tells me how to eat, by God I'm going to listen.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:02 AM on November 10, 2018
posted by Countess Elena at 9:02 AM on November 10, 2018
Peut-être un article médiocre mais une belle réponse, (merci Google Translate.)
posted by sammyo at 9:07 AM on November 10, 2018
posted by sammyo at 9:07 AM on November 10, 2018
This post is still up? Mods, we've had MeTas about this sort of thing already and I am not making yet another one.
There is literally only one named French person interviewed, and it's a professor of American civilization who didn't think of the verb allumer. Everyone else interviewed and named in the article is either American or Australian.
posted by fraula at 9:07 AM on November 10, 2018
There is literally only one named French person interviewed, and it's a professor of American civilization who didn't think of the verb allumer. Everyone else interviewed and named in the article is either American or Australian.
posted by fraula at 9:07 AM on November 10, 2018
Holy crap, people, it’s a light article meant for amusement, not a cultural theory paper.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:11 AM on November 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:11 AM on November 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
> Celsius1414:
"Holy crap, people, it’s a light article meant for amusement, not a cultural theory paper."
Stop getting so excited already...
posted by Samizdata at 9:12 AM on November 10, 2018
"Holy crap, people, it’s a light article meant for amusement, not a cultural theory paper."
Stop getting so excited already...
posted by Samizdata at 9:12 AM on November 10, 2018
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