Queen: "[I]f we remain united and resolute, then we will overcome it."
April 5, 2020 3:35 PM Subscribe
Queen Elizabeth II: "Better days will return: we will be with our friends again; we will be with our families again; we will meet again."
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup
> "… and on the eve of the funnel of the Queen Mother."Presumably that's referring to the topping up of her casket with gin.
posted by Pinback at 4:21 PM on April 5, 2020 [95 favorites]
on the eve of the funnel of the Queen Mother
That old bird could really rock a beer bong, I'll tell you.
posted by w0mbat at 4:22 PM on April 5, 2020 [23 favorites]
That old bird could really rock a beer bong, I'll tell you.
posted by w0mbat at 4:22 PM on April 5, 2020 [23 favorites]
It's short, and who knows all the things behind it, but I'm glad to hear someone in a position of authority speak plainly, hopefully and with gratitude.
posted by Gorgik at 4:26 PM on April 5, 2020 [47 favorites]
posted by Gorgik at 4:26 PM on April 5, 2020 [47 favorites]
I have waiting for the report on what her brooch said. Does anyone know?
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:28 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:28 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
Amazing that she mentioned that her first broadcast was in 1940. That was eighty years ago!
posted by vac2003 at 4:30 PM on April 5, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 4:30 PM on April 5, 2020 [20 favorites]
I am an unabashed fan of Her Maj. Thank you, ma'am.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:36 PM on April 5, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:36 PM on April 5, 2020 [13 favorites]
The brooch? A small piece of serpentine carved into a ball of writhing tentacles, set in a strangely-difficult-to-focus-on frame of pitted and scarred white metal.
From a hoard discovered in Orkney in 1932. Underwater. In some weird ruins.
Draw your own conclusions.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 4:42 PM on April 5, 2020 [88 favorites]
From a hoard discovered in Orkney in 1932. Underwater. In some weird ruins.
Draw your own conclusions.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 4:42 PM on April 5, 2020 [88 favorites]
That pull quote from the post has Vera Lynn echoing in my head to footage of nuclear explosions. Probably not the imagery she was going for.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:45 PM on April 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:45 PM on April 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
The Queen's brooch was likely inherited from Queen Mary, who received it as a wedding gift.
posted by hippybear at 4:48 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:48 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
The brooch? A small piece of serpentine carved into a ball of writhing tentacles, set in a strangely-difficult-to-focus-on frame of pitted and scarred white metal.
From a hoard discovered in Orkney in 1932. Underwater. In some weird ruins.
Paging Charlie Stross. Charlie Stross to the blue courtesy phone.
posted by tclark at 5:04 PM on April 5, 2020 [26 favorites]
From a hoard discovered in Orkney in 1932. Underwater. In some weird ruins.
Paging Charlie Stross. Charlie Stross to the blue courtesy phone.
posted by tclark at 5:04 PM on April 5, 2020 [26 favorites]
I just cried the whole way through that speech, and I don’t even know why. I think I’m doing all right with all this but then it seems every day something seemingly innocuous will set me off.
posted by something something at 5:04 PM on April 5, 2020 [47 favorites]
posted by something something at 5:04 PM on April 5, 2020 [47 favorites]
This is no time to go all wobbly, George.
posted by vrakatar at 5:05 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 5:05 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
Draw your own conclusions.
not do much as time but broach making and restoration process. Pickling, the cleaning of working surfaces, involves acids, soda and ammonia.
it's a historical cleaning metaphor. remain calm and clean.
God bless the queen.
posted by clavdivs at 5:09 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
not do much as time but broach making and restoration process. Pickling, the cleaning of working surfaces, involves acids, soda and ammonia.
it's a historical cleaning metaphor. remain calm and clean.
God bless the queen.
posted by clavdivs at 5:09 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
"fellow-feeling" 💙
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 5:10 PM on April 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 5:10 PM on April 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
I mean, like inflatablekiwi, I don't want there to be monarchies at all; I nevertheless am so verklempt these days a leader gives an actually credible and comforting bit of "Hey, thanks, we're all doing our best here. Good luck, and all that."
Because all we have is an Orange Monster, with the various "it's not my fault" and "here, i've invested in quinine, try that."
posted by allthinky at 5:11 PM on April 5, 2020 [67 favorites]
Because all we have is an Orange Monster, with the various "it's not my fault" and "here, i've invested in quinine, try that."
posted by allthinky at 5:11 PM on April 5, 2020 [67 favorites]
John Crace at the Guardian is doing the necessary but distasteful Kremlinology:
"But one thing was notable by its absence. Although it’s her job to be apolitical, there was no mention of the government’s efforts or requests to follow official advice. Her Maj still hasn’t forgotten how she was used, and made a fool of, by Boris Johnson over the prorogation and pointless Queen’s speech. In Boris, she doesn’t trust. But then who does?
The subtext was unmistakeable. If the country was to survive, it would do so through the collective resolve of its people, not through a government that had been slow to react and was still making promises it did not know it would be able to keep."
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:13 PM on April 5, 2020 [64 favorites]
"But one thing was notable by its absence. Although it’s her job to be apolitical, there was no mention of the government’s efforts or requests to follow official advice. Her Maj still hasn’t forgotten how she was used, and made a fool of, by Boris Johnson over the prorogation and pointless Queen’s speech. In Boris, she doesn’t trust. But then who does?
The subtext was unmistakeable. If the country was to survive, it would do so through the collective resolve of its people, not through a government that had been slow to react and was still making promises it did not know it would be able to keep."
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:13 PM on April 5, 2020 [64 favorites]
I mean, like inflatablekiwi, I don't want there to be monarchies at all; I nevertheless am so verklempt these days a leader gives an actually credible and comforting bit of "Hey, thanks, we're all doing our best here. Good luck, and all that."
Precisely my feelings. I'm pretty meh about the royal family, but I watch the Queen's Message every Christmas because it helps me feel close to a place that was once my home and may be again someday. The incredible continuity of Elizabeth II is comforting.
(Eighty years since her first address to the nation! Good Lord.)
posted by kalimac at 5:17 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
Precisely my feelings. I'm pretty meh about the royal family, but I watch the Queen's Message every Christmas because it helps me feel close to a place that was once my home and may be again someday. The incredible continuity of Elizabeth II is comforting.
(Eighty years since her first address to the nation! Good Lord.)
posted by kalimac at 5:17 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
Sadly it means 500 years of Royalists pointing at her as example of what happens when the institution works.
Given the crowd that's coming down the pipeline they're going to be using that argument a lot.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:20 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
Given the crowd that's coming down the pipeline they're going to be using that argument a lot.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:20 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
That pull quote from the post has Vera Lynn echoing in my head to footage of nuclear explosions.
Same. An unfortunate choice of words on the part of her speechwriter. I imagined hearing a bone-chilling, Sellers-like "oh dear", as soon as she said it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:40 PM on April 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Same. An unfortunate choice of words on the part of her speechwriter. I imagined hearing a bone-chilling, Sellers-like "oh dear", as soon as she said it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:40 PM on April 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
something something, I cried too. There is something so powerful about acknowledging people's fears and then appealing to their higher nature.
posted by HotToddy at 5:58 PM on April 5, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 5:58 PM on April 5, 2020 [10 favorites]
Is "people of all faiths, and of none" a common stock expression? It's new to me but seems to turn up a lot on Google, in the form "people of all faiths and none".
posted by hyperbolic at 5:59 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by hyperbolic at 5:59 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
“Fellow-feeling” indeed.
*dabs tear from eye*
posted by darkstar at 6:02 PM on April 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
*dabs tear from eye*
posted by darkstar at 6:02 PM on April 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
Is "people of all faiths, and of none" a common stock expression? It's new to me but seems to turn up a lot on Google, in the form "people of all faiths and none".
I don't know if its common usage or not, but I was pleasantly surprised to hear it in there.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 6:03 PM on April 5, 2020 [36 favorites]
I don't know if its common usage or not, but I was pleasantly surprised to hear it in there.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 6:03 PM on April 5, 2020 [36 favorites]
The problem with monarchy is you don't always get Elizabeth II.
posted by ocschwar at 6:17 PM on April 5, 2020 [84 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 6:17 PM on April 5, 2020 [84 favorites]
Imagine the chaos in the Royals if Charles had not survived his COVID bout.
posted by hippybear at 6:23 PM on April 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 6:23 PM on April 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Doesn’t matter though. She’ll outlive us all.
Her and Vera Lynn.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:23 PM on April 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
Her and Vera Lynn.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:23 PM on April 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
Tradition comforts.
posted by dmh at 6:23 PM on April 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by dmh at 6:23 PM on April 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Tradition comforts.
You have no idea how much I've wanted to have Walter Cronkite's, or Robert Siegel's, or even Johnny Carson's voice around commenting on this stuff in their own particular way. Or to have Neal Conan back on the NPR call-in show.
There are just certain voices which mean Certainty And Trust to me, somehow.
(No offense any current people speaking truth during the news hour or any other hour. But those resonate with me for nostalgia reasons and would be comforting right now to me, personally.)
posted by hippybear at 6:27 PM on April 5, 2020 [22 favorites]
You have no idea how much I've wanted to have Walter Cronkite's, or Robert Siegel's, or even Johnny Carson's voice around commenting on this stuff in their own particular way. Or to have Neal Conan back on the NPR call-in show.
There are just certain voices which mean Certainty And Trust to me, somehow.
(No offense any current people speaking truth during the news hour or any other hour. But those resonate with me for nostalgia reasons and would be comforting right now to me, personally.)
posted by hippybear at 6:27 PM on April 5, 2020 [22 favorites]
This article from the Washington Post describes both the Queen's speech and Johnson's very recent hospitalization in the same article. Does anyone in or from the UK have any more information about whether these two things are likely to be related? Meaning, do you think the Queen is giving the speech as a way to reassure people partly because Johnson was hospitalized?
posted by bright flowers at 6:32 PM on April 5, 2020
posted by bright flowers at 6:32 PM on April 5, 2020
I imagine the speech is crafted over an extended period - with every element of what she is wearing, what is the background, and her words very carefully chosen given the scrutiny only doing this once every decade or so beings. I believe the Palace has been telegraphing this speech was coming for a while now. Doubt the events are in anyway related.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:36 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:36 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
Okay I legitimately started crying at the two minute mark and I don’t even like royals. I think it’s just the contrast with what she is saying and what our leaders in America are saying. I wish we had someone who was calling on us all to pull together like that.
posted by corb at 6:56 PM on April 5, 2020 [16 favorites]
posted by corb at 6:56 PM on April 5, 2020 [16 favorites]
I'm somehow reminded that she gave Trump Churchill's wartime diaries on the occasion of his state visit not that long ago.
'Pearls before swine' doesn't begin to cover how I felt when I heard that (I've only heard it), but maybe she had an inkling.
posted by jamjam at 7:09 PM on April 5, 2020 [9 favorites]
'Pearls before swine' doesn't begin to cover how I felt when I heard that (I've only heard it), but maybe she had an inkling.
posted by jamjam at 7:09 PM on April 5, 2020 [9 favorites]
Is it my imagination, or has her accent become a bit less RP over the years?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:14 PM on April 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:14 PM on April 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
Interesting to see all the tears in this thread; my (American) wife was also crying through some of it. The contrast with your own head of state I suppose. I'm probably a republican at heart, but Brenda's really good at this stuff.
An unfortunate choice of words on the part of her speechwriter.
I think most Brits would associate those lyrics with WWII before Dr Strangelove. I did at least, and I'm a fan of the movie.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:21 PM on April 5, 2020 [11 favorites]
An unfortunate choice of words on the part of her speechwriter.
I think most Brits would associate those lyrics with WWII before Dr Strangelove. I did at least, and I'm a fan of the movie.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:21 PM on April 5, 2020 [11 favorites]
I think most Brits would associate those lyrics with WWII before Dr Strangelove
That is how Reuters is reporting it:
LONDON (Reuters) - Queen Elizabeth told the British people on Sunday that they would overcome the coronavirus outbreak if they stayed resolute in the face of lockdown and self-isolation, invoking the spirit of World War Two in an extremely rare broadcast to the nation.
[...]
“We will meet again”, she pointedly said in a direct reference to the most famous British song from the war years of the 1940s, when she was a teenager. “Better days will return.”
Living in a Commonwealth Realm, I have a quibble with the Palace. The speech was announced as a broadcast to "the UK and the Commonwealth", but it was clearly written for a UK audience specifically (about 3% of the population of the Commonwealth), what with the lauding of the NHS and of the qualities of Britons, and only a brief mention that HM has heard of nice things happening elsewhere too. A UK-specific address is fine! But when the Commonwealth is just thrown in as an afterthought, we notice.
posted by Clandestine Outlawry at 7:42 PM on April 5, 2020 [20 favorites]
That is how Reuters is reporting it:
LONDON (Reuters) - Queen Elizabeth told the British people on Sunday that they would overcome the coronavirus outbreak if they stayed resolute in the face of lockdown and self-isolation, invoking the spirit of World War Two in an extremely rare broadcast to the nation.
[...]
“We will meet again”, she pointedly said in a direct reference to the most famous British song from the war years of the 1940s, when she was a teenager. “Better days will return.”
Living in a Commonwealth Realm, I have a quibble with the Palace. The speech was announced as a broadcast to "the UK and the Commonwealth", but it was clearly written for a UK audience specifically (about 3% of the population of the Commonwealth), what with the lauding of the NHS and of the qualities of Britons, and only a brief mention that HM has heard of nice things happening elsewhere too. A UK-specific address is fine! But when the Commonwealth is just thrown in as an afterthought, we notice.
posted by Clandestine Outlawry at 7:42 PM on April 5, 2020 [20 favorites]
As an American, what would I care? As a student of history, Elizabeth has lived through an amazing amount of history. So this bloke doffs his hat and says, "Hail to the Queen!" She is a remarkable woman.
posted by SPrintF at 7:43 PM on April 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 7:43 PM on April 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm starting to feel like that the revolution was a really dumb idea.
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 7:52 PM on April 5, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 7:52 PM on April 5, 2020 [15 favorites]
Flabbergasted to learn from Huffy Puffy that Vera Lynn is still going at 103.
Also, I'm not a royalist but I like the idea that Trump is seething over how well this is being generally received.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:59 PM on April 5, 2020 [16 favorites]
Also, I'm not a royalist but I like the idea that Trump is seething over how well this is being generally received.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:59 PM on April 5, 2020 [16 favorites]
The gentle youtubing Bishop Robert Barron also has suggested this is a fine time for prayer and meditation.
posted by bertran at 8:02 PM on April 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bertran at 8:02 PM on April 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
It's like I'm never going to get Pink Floyd out of my head now, with you people chanting Vera Lynn over and over.
posted by hippybear at 8:03 PM on April 5, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:03 PM on April 5, 2020 [12 favorites]
We should take comfort that while we may have more still to endure, better days will return: we will be with our friends again; we will be with our families again; we will meet again.
This is so skillfully written. It's clearly pitched straight at the people who survived the blitz by being born after it ended - the ones who seem most resistant to the stay at home message. It's not telling them what to do though, it's assuming they're already doing it. She's giving them a framework to give themselves permission to do the right thing.
It's a really impressive speech. I still don't like royals though.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 8:13 PM on April 5, 2020 [39 favorites]
This is so skillfully written. It's clearly pitched straight at the people who survived the blitz by being born after it ended - the ones who seem most resistant to the stay at home message. It's not telling them what to do though, it's assuming they're already doing it. She's giving them a framework to give themselves permission to do the right thing.
It's a really impressive speech. I still don't like royals though.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 8:13 PM on April 5, 2020 [39 favorites]
> Given the crowd that's coming down the pipeline they're going to be using that argument a lot.
William has the same middlebrow lack-of-personality his grandmother has. I suspect he'll do fine.
posted by Leon at 8:16 PM on April 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
William has the same middlebrow lack-of-personality his grandmother has. I suspect he'll do fine.
posted by Leon at 8:16 PM on April 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
@Pandamoanium: Loved this moment in the Queen’s speech.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:17 PM on April 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 8:17 PM on April 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
As I said in another thread...
Image the difference in feeling if Obama had given us a speech on this, instead of the current shitshow. We would feel resolve. We would do the right things. We would minimize the suffering.
posted by Windopaene at 8:22 PM on April 5, 2020 [25 favorites]
Image the difference in feeling if Obama had given us a speech on this, instead of the current shitshow. We would feel resolve. We would do the right things. We would minimize the suffering.
posted by Windopaene at 8:22 PM on April 5, 2020 [25 favorites]
all this american can say is -
god save the queen
posted by pyramid termite at 8:25 PM on April 5, 2020 [12 favorites]
god save the queen
posted by pyramid termite at 8:25 PM on April 5, 2020 [12 favorites]
Is it my imagination, or has her accent become a bit less RP over the years?
RP was pretty much invented to overcome the limitations of radio broadcasting in the 1930s. I don't think even the Queen really needs it now.
William has the same middlebrow lack-of-personality his grandmother has. I suspect he'll do fine.
You have to be pretty sharp to stay as dull as this job demands.
posted by ocschwar at 8:31 PM on April 5, 2020 [21 favorites]
RP was pretty much invented to overcome the limitations of radio broadcasting in the 1930s. I don't think even the Queen really needs it now.
William has the same middlebrow lack-of-personality his grandmother has. I suspect he'll do fine.
You have to be pretty sharp to stay as dull as this job demands.
posted by ocschwar at 8:31 PM on April 5, 2020 [21 favorites]
Is it my imagination, or has her accent become a bit less RP over the years?
That's impossible by definition. However she speaks is literally the Queen's English. You are hereby receiving her pronunciation.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:21 PM on April 5, 2020 [29 favorites]
That's impossible by definition. However she speaks is literally the Queen's English. You are hereby receiving her pronunciation.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:21 PM on April 5, 2020 [29 favorites]
Is it my imagination, or has her accent become a bit less RP over the years?
I'm not going to Google it, but I seem to recall that a few years ago the there was a story in the news that science-y people did analysis of it, and concluded that her accent has become less posh.
posted by polecat at 9:29 PM on April 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm not going to Google it, but I seem to recall that a few years ago the there was a story in the news that science-y people did analysis of it, and concluded that her accent has become less posh.
posted by polecat at 9:29 PM on April 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Had to lookup what all you crazy Brits were talking about with "RP" and went down the rabbithole of YouTube videos about English accents. I feel like I'm Henry Higgins now, or Enry Iggins if your Cockney/Estuary...
posted by Windopaene at 9:33 PM on April 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 9:33 PM on April 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
I’m on a phone and don’t have the links handy, but there are several published linguistics papers that demonstrate how the Queen’s speech has shifted away from her very posh RP of younger years. This coincides with changing ideals about power, society and class in Britain and the World. The papers are super interesting and the methodology is clever and resourceful.
posted by iamkimiam at 9:37 PM on April 5, 2020 [23 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 9:37 PM on April 5, 2020 [23 favorites]
Is "people of all faiths, and of none" a common stock expression? It's new to me but seems to turn up a lot on Google, in the form "people of all faiths and none".
I don't know if its common usage or not, but I was pleasantly surprised to hear it in there.
Tony Blair('s speechwriter) used it on 9/11. It was the only set of words spoken by a world leader that day that gave me any sense of comfort at all.
He turned out to be mostly shit like the rest of them, but sometimes that's all you get.
posted by tzikeh at 9:49 PM on April 5, 2020 [17 favorites]
I don't know if its common usage or not, but I was pleasantly surprised to hear it in there.
Tony Blair('s speechwriter) used it on 9/11. It was the only set of words spoken by a world leader that day that gave me any sense of comfort at all.
He turned out to be mostly shit like the rest of them, but sometimes that's all you get.
posted by tzikeh at 9:49 PM on April 5, 2020 [17 favorites]
I think most Brits would associate those lyrics with WWII before Dr Strangelove. I did at least, and I'm a fan of the movie.
As someone who is also British, I did not make that association, but I did not grow up with the WWII culture that other Britons embrace. My grandfather on my dad's side fought in WWI, before returning to farming in Wales. I do not think the culture around war was celebrated in my family, but I did grow up with Kubrick films. Perhaps that's why that language is meaningful and terrifying, to me.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:52 PM on April 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
As someone who is also British, I did not make that association, but I did not grow up with the WWII culture that other Britons embrace. My grandfather on my dad's side fought in WWI, before returning to farming in Wales. I do not think the culture around war was celebrated in my family, but I did grow up with Kubrick films. Perhaps that's why that language is meaningful and terrifying, to me.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:52 PM on April 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
> how do we carry on our daily lives without despair?
"Keep Calm and Carry On".
I know it's as trite as all hell now, merchanidised and remixed and played out, but that's basically it, isn't it? And it's not like we have a choice.
posted by Leon at 10:22 PM on April 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
"Keep Calm and Carry On".
I know it's as trite as all hell now, merchanidised and remixed and played out, but that's basically it, isn't it? And it's not like we have a choice.
posted by Leon at 10:22 PM on April 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
This Southern boy from the USA has one thing to add to this discussion following this eloquent and heart-wrenching message from a wonderful lady:
Long live the Queen.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:46 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
Long live the Queen.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:46 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. a) Please don't use hateful pejoratives against the mentally disabled to make a point about Trump, b) don't make this into another thread all about Trump.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:30 PM on April 5, 2020 [16 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 11:30 PM on April 5, 2020 [16 favorites]
As an Englishman, it's amazing how many Americans have popped up in this thread to say pro-royalist things. Didn't you guys have a revolution over this issue?
Now, personally I might feel that the enduring nature of the English crown has become a shibboleth, and the money spent on propping up a clan of millionaires would be better used on, say, the National Health Service et cetera, and that their regressive older generation(s!) have been part of an upper class that has held back progress in the UK for far too long. But I guess from the outside I guess this looks like a nice message.
posted by The River Ivel at 11:40 PM on April 5, 2020 [39 favorites]
Now, personally I might feel that the enduring nature of the English crown has become a shibboleth, and the money spent on propping up a clan of millionaires would be better used on, say, the National Health Service et cetera, and that their regressive older generation(s!) have been part of an upper class that has held back progress in the UK for far too long. But I guess from the outside I guess this looks like a nice message.
posted by The River Ivel at 11:40 PM on April 5, 2020 [39 favorites]
As an Englishman, it's amazing how many Americans have popped up in this thread to say pro-royalist things. Didn't you guys have a revolution over this issue?
We’re taking leadership where we can get it right now. I personally found Angela Merkel’s speech to be what I wanted to hear right now. Trudeau’s was great too.
posted by mikesch at 11:50 PM on April 5, 2020 [15 favorites]
We’re taking leadership where we can get it right now. I personally found Angela Merkel’s speech to be what I wanted to hear right now. Trudeau’s was great too.
posted by mikesch at 11:50 PM on April 5, 2020 [15 favorites]
Disclaimer: I used to hang out with a few of the royals in the old world, and have some insights into their hmmmmmm lifestyles (which are, for the inner circles, simultaneously very comfortable and weirdly suffocating and unhealthy).
I'm ambivalent. It's very much her own speech (especially since 1963 she always has the final veto on words, even those recommended by her two closest advisors, which annoyed Margaret Thatcher). And said the crucial things e.g. stay at home.
(As a side-point, it'll probably never be public but it would be so interesting to know when the virus/pandemic was first mentioned in discussion between HM and Boris, and his response to her questions.)
The - sigh, inevitable - nationalism and British exceptionalism overtones, and references to WW2, are eyerolling. For many reasons the endless comparisons with the blitz and supposed "wartime spirit" are false (the black market, stealing from bombed houses, the large increase in rapes and murders during WW2 - these and many more get conveniently omitted). The mostly forgotten Winter of 1946-47 would be a better analogy (a weakened infrastruture; food, fuel and medical supplies and services breaking; uncertainty; a government forever playing catchup; some people quietly made fundamental sacrifices so others could survive to the summer).
But HM knows how (unfortunately) ingrained the many half-truths of WW2 are in British, especially English, culture, and knows it is part of the image of her and her generation, and has to fly with them. Charles, if he becomes King, will do the same. William is more canny than his (carefully) crafted image and may break with this; we'll see.
On the plus, "using the great advances of science" is a big one. An educated guess that more than a few people in the hierarchy of advisors and 'influencers' were keen on more 'god' and less 'science', so I'm really glad that made it in. And other things, as pointed out by MeFites - the absence of mentions of the government, and instead footage of hospital workers in, and adjusting, their PPE (the very first cutaway scene, and that felt deliberately political, and I am glad of it).
And, thankfully, the absence of "God Save the Queen" at the end, the dirge which even many royals cannot stand. I have the gut feeling (and also a hope) we'll never hear that almost nauseating tune at the end of a royal broadcast again.
But, I don't know; overall it left me feeling a bit down and sad. The unspoken feeling that, as the pandemic forces many of us to quietly face our own mortality, she was doing so as well in subtle choices of words and tone (one takeaway being "I may not speak to you on the other side of this"). Even though she has access to the best medical care possible, her age puts her and her partner in the vunerable category (not just from the virus). The reference to, and picture of, her deceased sister were also a nod to "no-one lives forever".
Christmas Day of 2020 is nearly nine months away; even if this is not her last message and she is still able to do her speech for that day, she knows that it will be a markedly different message, in a quite different world, to her previous broadcasts.
posted by Wordshore at 12:06 AM on April 6, 2020 [64 favorites]
I'm ambivalent. It's very much her own speech (especially since 1963 she always has the final veto on words, even those recommended by her two closest advisors, which annoyed Margaret Thatcher). And said the crucial things e.g. stay at home.
(As a side-point, it'll probably never be public but it would be so interesting to know when the virus/pandemic was first mentioned in discussion between HM and Boris, and his response to her questions.)
The - sigh, inevitable - nationalism and British exceptionalism overtones, and references to WW2, are eyerolling. For many reasons the endless comparisons with the blitz and supposed "wartime spirit" are false (the black market, stealing from bombed houses, the large increase in rapes and murders during WW2 - these and many more get conveniently omitted). The mostly forgotten Winter of 1946-47 would be a better analogy (a weakened infrastruture; food, fuel and medical supplies and services breaking; uncertainty; a government forever playing catchup; some people quietly made fundamental sacrifices so others could survive to the summer).
But HM knows how (unfortunately) ingrained the many half-truths of WW2 are in British, especially English, culture, and knows it is part of the image of her and her generation, and has to fly with them. Charles, if he becomes King, will do the same. William is more canny than his (carefully) crafted image and may break with this; we'll see.
On the plus, "using the great advances of science" is a big one. An educated guess that more than a few people in the hierarchy of advisors and 'influencers' were keen on more 'god' and less 'science', so I'm really glad that made it in. And other things, as pointed out by MeFites - the absence of mentions of the government, and instead footage of hospital workers in, and adjusting, their PPE (the very first cutaway scene, and that felt deliberately political, and I am glad of it).
And, thankfully, the absence of "God Save the Queen" at the end, the dirge which even many royals cannot stand. I have the gut feeling (and also a hope) we'll never hear that almost nauseating tune at the end of a royal broadcast again.
But, I don't know; overall it left me feeling a bit down and sad. The unspoken feeling that, as the pandemic forces many of us to quietly face our own mortality, she was doing so as well in subtle choices of words and tone (one takeaway being "I may not speak to you on the other side of this"). Even though she has access to the best medical care possible, her age puts her and her partner in the vunerable category (not just from the virus). The reference to, and picture of, her deceased sister were also a nod to "no-one lives forever".
Christmas Day of 2020 is nearly nine months away; even if this is not her last message and she is still able to do her speech for that day, she knows that it will be a markedly different message, in a quite different world, to her previous broadcasts.
posted by Wordshore at 12:06 AM on April 6, 2020 [64 favorites]
As an Englishman, it's amazing how many Americans have popped up in this thread to say pro-royalist things. Didn't you guys have a revolution over this issue?
As someone that's really not looking forward to King Charles III, there is something to be said for the calm continuity of a head of state who's had fourteen prime ministers during her reign, starting with Churchill. She was a military truck driver in WWII FFS.
A carefully crafted speech acknowledging the hardship and sacrifice of the people, the heroism of essential workers and the need to keep bearing up, to keep hope that this will one day end; contrasting particularly with the orange blame-spraying shitgibbon over the pond.
She's 93 and at seriously high risk of dying herself of this, yet you'd never know the fear she must feel. We can decry the monarchy all day (and I too think it's a class-based bastion of money and privilege that's long overdue to end) but well, we are where we are, and calm reassurance from our leaders is pretty thin on the ground in the anglosphere.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 12:20 AM on April 6, 2020 [19 favorites]
As someone that's really not looking forward to King Charles III, there is something to be said for the calm continuity of a head of state who's had fourteen prime ministers during her reign, starting with Churchill. She was a military truck driver in WWII FFS.
A carefully crafted speech acknowledging the hardship and sacrifice of the people, the heroism of essential workers and the need to keep bearing up, to keep hope that this will one day end; contrasting particularly with the orange blame-spraying shitgibbon over the pond.
She's 93 and at seriously high risk of dying herself of this, yet you'd never know the fear she must feel. We can decry the monarchy all day (and I too think it's a class-based bastion of money and privilege that's long overdue to end) but well, we are where we are, and calm reassurance from our leaders is pretty thin on the ground in the anglosphere.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 12:20 AM on April 6, 2020 [19 favorites]
Is it my imagination, or has her accent become a bit less RP over the years?
Jonathon Harrington has published a number of papers with analyses of how the Queen's accent has changed over time. It's among the more famous linguistics studies because a well-accepted view among certain linguists (not so much sociolinguists though) was that an adult's accent was kind of fixed and didn't change. Sometimes you still find people claiming this, but I think Harrington's work pretty well proves it is incorrect. (And I would have thought just from my own personal experience that it was incorrect anyway).
posted by lollusc at 12:46 AM on April 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
Jonathon Harrington has published a number of papers with analyses of how the Queen's accent has changed over time. It's among the more famous linguistics studies because a well-accepted view among certain linguists (not so much sociolinguists though) was that an adult's accent was kind of fixed and didn't change. Sometimes you still find people claiming this, but I think Harrington's work pretty well proves it is incorrect. (And I would have thought just from my own personal experience that it was incorrect anyway).
posted by lollusc at 12:46 AM on April 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
This thread is puzzling and confusing. Did we all watch the same speech? The one filled with rah-rah nationalism and bullshit received ideas about how excellent everyone was during the war, when the reality away from the bollocks war films that followed it was a lot more messy? With lots of mentions of Britons this and British spirit that, with no acknowledgement of all the NHS and essential services workers who are immigrants? The Britons of this generation were as strong as any, sure, because they stood on the backs of immigrant nurses, doctors, drivers, and supermarket workers. Ugh.
Meaning, do you think the Queen is giving the speech as a way to reassure people partly because Johnson was hospitalized?
Johnson being out of commission would be the reassuring thing, I'd've thought...
posted by Dysk at 1:12 AM on April 6, 2020 [15 favorites]
Meaning, do you think the Queen is giving the speech as a way to reassure people partly because Johnson was hospitalized?
Johnson being out of commission would be the reassuring thing, I'd've thought...
posted by Dysk at 1:12 AM on April 6, 2020 [15 favorites]
Is it my imagination, or has her accent become a bit less RP over the years?
So there are multiple kinds of accents that might be coded as "posh" for British people.
First, there is RP itself. This is the old standard BBC accent, based on the middle class accent of the home counties and learned by many broadcasters even those whose native accents were close to it.
Then there is "marked" RP. This is a harder edged sounding accent used by the English aristocracy, earlier recordings of the royal family sound more like this although amazingly they did try and soften it for broadcast. If you've never heard it, it may sound like a parody of the BBC RP.
Also, (Anglo-)Irish, Scottish, and to some extent Yorkshire upper class accents exist that are definitely "local" but also distinctly upper class.
Now, personally I might feel that the enduring nature of the English crown has become a shibboleth, and the money spent on propping up a clan of millionaires would be better used on, say, the National Health Service et cetera, and that their regressive older generation(s!) have been part of an upper class that has held back progress in the UK for far too long. But I guess from the outside I guess this looks like a nice message.
Oh, yes? Is that why the United States has such a service? No clan of millionaires to pr... ah no.
With lots of mentions of Britons this and British spirit that, with no acknowledgement of all the NHS and essential services workers who are immigrants?
Immigrants are British as well. I suspect that a speech which began with a critical analysis of the received wisdom on the second world war might be somewhat less unifying.
posted by atrazine at 1:48 AM on April 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
So there are multiple kinds of accents that might be coded as "posh" for British people.
First, there is RP itself. This is the old standard BBC accent, based on the middle class accent of the home counties and learned by many broadcasters even those whose native accents were close to it.
Then there is "marked" RP. This is a harder edged sounding accent used by the English aristocracy, earlier recordings of the royal family sound more like this although amazingly they did try and soften it for broadcast. If you've never heard it, it may sound like a parody of the BBC RP.
Also, (Anglo-)Irish, Scottish, and to some extent Yorkshire upper class accents exist that are definitely "local" but also distinctly upper class.
Now, personally I might feel that the enduring nature of the English crown has become a shibboleth, and the money spent on propping up a clan of millionaires would be better used on, say, the National Health Service et cetera, and that their regressive older generation(s!) have been part of an upper class that has held back progress in the UK for far too long. But I guess from the outside I guess this looks like a nice message.
Oh, yes? Is that why the United States has such a service? No clan of millionaires to pr... ah no.
With lots of mentions of Britons this and British spirit that, with no acknowledgement of all the NHS and essential services workers who are immigrants?
Immigrants are British as well. I suspect that a speech which began with a critical analysis of the received wisdom on the second world war might be somewhat less unifying.
posted by atrazine at 1:48 AM on April 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
Immigrants are British as well.
I fucking am not!
posted by Dysk at 1:53 AM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
I fucking am not!
posted by Dysk at 1:53 AM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
And my Eastern and Southern European friends and colleagues would never describe themselves that way either, and nor would anyone else describe us that way. We are foreigners. There was a whole big referendum about exactly this. And the same goes for people who've moved here from other parts of the world and don't have a British passport. We're not British in any other context, many of us don't want to be, and it is disingenuous and self-serving to suggest that we are in fact included in the category of "Britons" in this context. We aren't. And even if we were, that would be little better.
posted by Dysk at 1:56 AM on April 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 1:56 AM on April 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Immigrants are British as well. I suspect that a speech which began with a critical analysis of the received wisdom on the second world war might be somewhat less unifying.
Immigrants aren't part of the WWII story that Tories and their tabloids keep selling the public as "true British spirit". It's amazing — and infuriating — how many white British people keep celebrating the WWII narrative as their own lived experience and as some kind of societal ideal, before immigrants showed up and ruined everything, when they had nothing to do with it.
Some of them are even in my family, racists who like to talk up their Army Reservist service like a point of pride, as if it gives them bona fides other fellow citizens would not deserve for being of black or Asian descent.
But as much as I think the words of the Queen's speech are terrifying, even if in unintentional ways, maybe, the stock video footage in her speech at least showed a few people who are results of imposing colonial order, human beings who are most definitely part of the empire's not-so-pleasant story, and who are still trying to save the country from itself — which was at least partially gratifying after reading Brits on social media demand that the UK get reparations from China.
The timing of the Queen's speech and Johnson's illness lends obviousness to the purpose and intent of her words. I do not hope Johnson dies of his illness. Not much from any sense of empathy with the man or his family, but because I know that his accomplices in the UK government and media would immediately prop him up as a hero, a hagiographic shibboleth for British identity. I want that man to serve as a living example of hubris, for as long as is needed to burn out the infection of populist racism that has made Britain as sick as Covid-19.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:18 AM on April 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Immigrants aren't part of the WWII story that Tories and their tabloids keep selling the public as "true British spirit". It's amazing — and infuriating — how many white British people keep celebrating the WWII narrative as their own lived experience and as some kind of societal ideal, before immigrants showed up and ruined everything, when they had nothing to do with it.
Some of them are even in my family, racists who like to talk up their Army Reservist service like a point of pride, as if it gives them bona fides other fellow citizens would not deserve for being of black or Asian descent.
But as much as I think the words of the Queen's speech are terrifying, even if in unintentional ways, maybe, the stock video footage in her speech at least showed a few people who are results of imposing colonial order, human beings who are most definitely part of the empire's not-so-pleasant story, and who are still trying to save the country from itself — which was at least partially gratifying after reading Brits on social media demand that the UK get reparations from China.
The timing of the Queen's speech and Johnson's illness lends obviousness to the purpose and intent of her words. I do not hope Johnson dies of his illness. Not much from any sense of empathy with the man or his family, but because I know that his accomplices in the UK government and media would immediately prop him up as a hero, a hagiographic shibboleth for British identity. I want that man to serve as a living example of hubris, for as long as is needed to burn out the infection of populist racism that has made Britain as sick as Covid-19.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:18 AM on April 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
So you live here but don't think you're British? Bad news, that means you are British: in fact, there is a time-honoured specific term for you: Scottish. I'll see you on Burns Night!
(Unless you want to be Irish or Welsh, of course, but we have cooler traditional dress. Join the clan! There's also I believe Cornish, but that is far beyond my ken...)
posted by alasdair at 2:30 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
(Unless you want to be Irish or Welsh, of course, but we have cooler traditional dress. Join the clan! There's also I believe Cornish, but that is far beyond my ken...)
posted by alasdair at 2:30 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
So you live here but don't think you're British? Bad news, that means you are British
My (lack of) access to benefits and other government services says otherwise.
posted by Dysk at 2:35 AM on April 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
My (lack of) access to benefits and other government services says otherwise.
posted by Dysk at 2:35 AM on April 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Besides, I already have a nationality. No offense to the Scots, Welsh, Irish, Cornish, etc, but I am not that either.
posted by Dysk at 2:44 AM on April 6, 2020
posted by Dysk at 2:44 AM on April 6, 2020
And my Eastern and Southern European friends and colleagues would never describe themselves that way either, and nor would anyone else describe us that way. We are foreigners. There was a whole big referendum about exactly this. And the same goes for people who've moved here from other parts of the world and don't have a British passport. We're not British in any other context, many of us don't want to be, and it is disingenuous and self-serving to suggest that we are in fact included in the category of "Britons" in this context. We aren't. And even if we were, that would be little better.
I'm not British either but because of that I also don't particularly look the Queen of the United Kingdom for reassurance in difficult times.
I'm an EU national who lives here but this is the fourth foreign (to me) country in which I've lived and very possibly won't be the last. I have no intention of surrendering my Dutch passport and becoming British and if I am looking for a politics to involve myself with or indeed a monarch to reassure me, I will look home across the sea. I think this is a probably a disagreement about definitions because I did not consider myself an immigrant living in Dubai or the US and I do not consider myself an immigrant now living here. To me it is a question of intent around permanence. Possibly this is silly now that I have settled status and own a house but then I owned a flat and had a valid residence visa in Dubai as well. I certainly didn't immigrate there.
Anyway, I understand that there is a spectrum of personal beliefs around whether one wants to consider oneself as an immigrant and I'm obviously not going to insist on everyone else adopting my potentially quixotic definition.
posted by atrazine at 2:51 AM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm not British either but because of that I also don't particularly look the Queen of the United Kingdom for reassurance in difficult times.
I'm an EU national who lives here but this is the fourth foreign (to me) country in which I've lived and very possibly won't be the last. I have no intention of surrendering my Dutch passport and becoming British and if I am looking for a politics to involve myself with or indeed a monarch to reassure me, I will look home across the sea. I think this is a probably a disagreement about definitions because I did not consider myself an immigrant living in Dubai or the US and I do not consider myself an immigrant now living here. To me it is a question of intent around permanence. Possibly this is silly now that I have settled status and own a house but then I owned a flat and had a valid residence visa in Dubai as well. I certainly didn't immigrate there.
Anyway, I understand that there is a spectrum of personal beliefs around whether one wants to consider oneself as an immigrant and I'm obviously not going to insist on everyone else adopting my potentially quixotic definition.
posted by atrazine at 2:51 AM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm not British either but because of that I also don't particularly look the Queen of the United Kingdom for reassurance in difficult times.
Nor do I. But that doesn't excuse her not acknowledging the contributions of immigrants, in fact erasing them in favour of putting it all down to the Britons of this generation.
posted by Dysk at 2:58 AM on April 6, 2020
Nor do I. But that doesn't excuse her not acknowledging the contributions of immigrants, in fact erasing them in favour of putting it all down to the Britons of this generation.
posted by Dysk at 2:58 AM on April 6, 2020
Mod note: It's fine to discuss what does or doesn't resonate, what reassures or disappoints with the speech, but let's not sidetrack entirely on the issue of UK immigrants. It's a fine discussion to have, but better to go ahead and make a post that addresses the specific topic. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 2:58 AM on April 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 2:58 AM on April 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
I think everyone’s accent has become gradually less posh. Listen to radio programmes from the fifties or earlier. I once heard David Dimbleby watching one of his early tv programmes and being astonished at how posh he himself sounded back then.
posted by Segundus at 3:31 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 3:31 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I finally listened to it and I think what I like about having a distant Head of State across the pond from Canada is that there’s no numbers or politics or actions required (although it would be something if some royal holdings were divested to buy PPE or something). It’s straight-up soothing, like Dolly Parton’s bedtime stories.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:46 AM on April 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 4:46 AM on April 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Is "people of all faiths, and of none" a common stock expression?
It's very popular with Anglican bishops, as a way of defending the Church of England's position as the established church. The idea (or fiction, if you prefer) is that, even though Anglican services are only attended by a tiny fraction of the population, the Anglican church is a national church ministering to everybody, 'all faiths and none'.
You can be sure that the Queen is aware of this. She swore an oath at her coronation to 'maintain and preserve the settlement of the Church of England' and she takes her role as a spiritual leader very seriously. If she wasn't the head of the national church, I doubt whether she would feel the same entitlement to speak to the nation about matters of faith. Coming from a politician, 'all faiths and none' would be a platitude; coming from the Queen it's an assertion of her constitutional role.
posted by verstegan at 5:40 AM on April 6, 2020 [8 favorites]
It's very popular with Anglican bishops, as a way of defending the Church of England's position as the established church. The idea (or fiction, if you prefer) is that, even though Anglican services are only attended by a tiny fraction of the population, the Anglican church is a national church ministering to everybody, 'all faiths and none'.
You can be sure that the Queen is aware of this. She swore an oath at her coronation to 'maintain and preserve the settlement of the Church of England' and she takes her role as a spiritual leader very seriously. If she wasn't the head of the national church, I doubt whether she would feel the same entitlement to speak to the nation about matters of faith. Coming from a politician, 'all faiths and none' would be a platitude; coming from the Queen it's an assertion of her constitutional role.
posted by verstegan at 5:40 AM on April 6, 2020 [8 favorites]
It's strange, because the concept of royalty runs against all my other political beliefs, but I am a royalist. The thing is, I always imagine who would be elected president. And I'm not thinking it has to be a political president like in France or the US. I think who would we elect as president here, and the first person who comes to mind is Anders Fogh Rasmussen. In my opinion, a mean, corrupt war criminal who invited the racist far right into government. But it didn't begin with that. It began with the train bombings in Madrid in 2004, where the PM Aznar tried to make political hay out of a terrible tragedy, and the (otherwise corrupt and generally not very impressive) royals there stood up to the task. I realized that even though a lot of the things about royalty are wrong, and should be adjusted, the concept of having someone constitutionally a-political as head of state is a good one. I can see that presidents in Germany and Iceland and Italy are actually doing a good job, but I don't trust our leaders with creating such a presidency.
And I liked the way the speech was made, with the videos.
posted by mumimor at 5:44 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
And I liked the way the speech was made, with the videos.
posted by mumimor at 5:44 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Someone upthread asked if the Queen's speech was partly a response to Boris Johnson's hospitalization. I watch BBC News from Sweden and one show, before the broadcast, said that the speech had been taped on Thursday, April 2, and included a brief summary by the news reader of the (then) upcoming speech. So the timing appears to be a coincidence.
"Fellow feeling" is a phrase that is new to me. That is all.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:27 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
"Fellow feeling" is a phrase that is new to me. That is all.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:27 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
As an Englishman, it's amazing how many Americans have popped up in this thread to say pro-royalist things. Didn't you guys have a revolution over this issue?It’s complicated. Whatever shook out of it, we weren’t necessarily having a revolution over the concept of monarchy in the abstract, but rather a specific oppressive government. The Enlightenment sorts won out in the end, but the idea of having an American king was on the table at the time. In particular Southern plantation owners wanted to fully recreate the British class hierarchy with themselves as the landed noble class. That attitude persisted in subtle ways for a surprisingly long time, as in the Southern town I grew up in was still very much under the thumb of a single obscenely wealthy family for whom the entire community was their plaything, dressed in a pretense of noblesse oblige. It’s not the stereotypical picture of America, but it persisted nearly to the end of the 20th Century when the rapacious capitalism of the 1980s and 90s unseated most such old-money families, but I’ve no doubt that order still survives in some isolated communities.
For the rest of us, there’s also the perpetual American fascination with wealth and celebrity of any kind. Perhaps because we don’t have formal social classes we romanticize them in that peculiar way that made Downton Abbey so popular here. Then, finally, there’s this tendency to reduce other societies to theme-park versions of themselves, and to Americans the British theme park has a royal family. I wouldn’t read it as active political support for the British monarchy so much as the potential for disappointment when one’s favorite ride at Disneyland gets remodeled after the theme of a currently popular movie.
posted by gelfin at 6:44 AM on April 6, 2020 [15 favorites]
I'm making this derail worse here but insofar as the American revolution was about getting rid of oppression, it was about getting rid of the oppression of local American elites by distant British elites. The day-to-day oppression of common people, especially slaves, was not at issue. Enlightenment ideals were fashionable at the time so that's the language used in the founding documents but it was essentially a power struggle between two groups of elites.
Also I suppose pro-royalism in the American left is out of a desire to have some kind of apolitical steady hand that we're missing now in the Trump era. Of course we already have a theoretically apolitical branch of government, the Supreme Court, which isn't working out too well either.
posted by bright flowers at 7:24 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also I suppose pro-royalism in the American left is out of a desire to have some kind of apolitical steady hand that we're missing now in the Trump era. Of course we already have a theoretically apolitical branch of government, the Supreme Court, which isn't working out too well either.
posted by bright flowers at 7:24 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lemme just say that taxation WITH representation is no picnic either.
posted by mikelieman at 7:29 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 7:29 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
We often forget how pathetically weak the federal government was in the US before (approximately) the Civil War. The Office of the President was even weaker relative to today than the other branches, though it didn't take long to amass soft power and much influence thanks to the ability to reward people with paid appointments and having control over what little federal military there was at the time conferred a few small benefits. Still, it was a pretty toothless office, much closer to UK royalty than the modern Presidency is.
posted by wierdo at 7:38 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by wierdo at 7:38 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Folks we could probably stop getting into the weeds of US political history here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:53 AM on April 6, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:53 AM on April 6, 2020 [9 favorites]
So, well, US-ian coming here to apologize/repent my earlier comment I suppose. I'm not deeply ingrained in UK politics, honestly I find it rather interesting and esoteric but it's not something I've dived into deep enough to really understand. That said, my earlier comment wishing the Queen longevity based upon my understanding of the turn of phrase is not meant to confer an ideological support of the monarchy as a system of governance or as a social construct in general. I apologize if that's the takeaway or result of said statement. Really.
I feel like we as Americans are just so starved for anything approaching the leadership that anything approximating or surpassing what a decent elementary school sporting coach should be able to deliver in a pre-game peptalk seems really wonderful and awe inspiring right about now and, as someone else up thread said,
The problem with monarchy is you don't always get Elizabeth II.
... and that's a more than fair take from our point of view on this side of the pond. So, try to understand that's what I was saying and I bet that's what a lot of others meant as well. We're behind you when you say it's problematic as well, at least I am.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:25 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I feel like we as Americans are just so starved for anything approaching the leadership that anything approximating or surpassing what a decent elementary school sporting coach should be able to deliver in a pre-game peptalk seems really wonderful and awe inspiring right about now and, as someone else up thread said,
The problem with monarchy is you don't always get Elizabeth II.
... and that's a more than fair take from our point of view on this side of the pond. So, try to understand that's what I was saying and I bet that's what a lot of others meant as well. We're behind you when you say it's problematic as well, at least I am.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:25 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Not any kind of a royalist but Elizabeth comes across as harder working and better intentioned than most of them.
However in regard to last night's broadcast, at times like this they are supposed to do things like that. So job done.
posted by epo at 9:11 AM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
However in regard to last night's broadcast, at times like this they are supposed to do things like that. So job done.
posted by epo at 9:11 AM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Even I was cheering God Save the Queen after that speech.
posted by interogative mood at 9:22 AM on April 6, 2020
posted by interogative mood at 9:22 AM on April 6, 2020
While it's very unfair to what she's actually saying, when a British authority figure with a very posh accent tries to reassure me during a major crisis, i hear:
"That's the spirit! If nothing else our total pig headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through!"
posted by Dumsnill at 9:53 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
"That's the spirit! If nothing else our total pig headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through!"
posted by Dumsnill at 9:53 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm starting to feel like that the revolution was a really dumb idea.
Oh for God's sake! Just take a step back and think about what that would mean. We'd literally be like Canada.
Unthinkable.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 9:57 AM on April 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
Oh for God's sake! Just take a step back and think about what that would mean. We'd literally be like Canada.
Unthinkable.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 9:57 AM on April 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
In reference to our unfortunate spelling mistake in the very first comment of this thread, all one can do is channel one's inner Queen Elizabeth II and declare that one has terribilis orthographiam.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:42 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:42 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised Trump hasn't trash-Tweeted her yet.
Also, can anyone identify the watch she's wearing? I'm thinking vintage Omega but I'm not sure.
posted by essexjan at 12:26 PM on April 6, 2020
Also, can anyone identify the watch she's wearing? I'm thinking vintage Omega but I'm not sure.
posted by essexjan at 12:26 PM on April 6, 2020
Just the right mix of seriousness, thanks, and hope. A very good speech delivered essentially perfectly.
posted by haiku warrior at 12:43 PM on April 6, 2020
posted by haiku warrior at 12:43 PM on April 6, 2020
Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care.
posted by rory at 12:44 PM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rory at 12:44 PM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think shit just got real for the UK, Boris is not my prime minister but christ we don't need any more turmoil right now, quite apart from the simple wish for a persons welfare.
posted by RandomInconsistencies at 1:16 PM on April 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by RandomInconsistencies at 1:16 PM on April 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
I don’t hate him that much. This is just so weird and disorienting.
posted by skybluepink at 2:11 PM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by skybluepink at 2:11 PM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
It's strange, because the concept of royalty runs against all my other political beliefs, but I am a royalist. The thing is, I always imagine who would be elected president. And I'm not thinking it has to be a political president like in France or the US. I think who would we elect as president here, and the first person who comes to mind is Anders Fogh Rasmussen. In my opinion, a mean, corrupt war criminal who invited the racist far right into government.
If it wasn't for the fact that he fell for Wallis Simpson, we'd have had a Nazi-sympathising, Hitler-salute-giving king on the throne. And unlike your theoretical president, we couldn't have voted him out. You can't judge all monarchs by Elizabeth Windsor. You get what you get, whether you like or not, and then you're stuck with it.
posted by reynir at 2:14 PM on April 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
If it wasn't for the fact that he fell for Wallis Simpson, we'd have had a Nazi-sympathising, Hitler-salute-giving king on the throne. And unlike your theoretical president, we couldn't have voted him out. You can't judge all monarchs by Elizabeth Windsor. You get what you get, whether you like or not, and then you're stuck with it.
posted by reynir at 2:14 PM on April 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
Man, they're never gonna start making The Crown.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:16 PM on April 6, 2020
posted by kirkaracha at 3:16 PM on April 6, 2020
If it wasn't for the fact that he fell for Wallis Simpson, we'd have had a Nazi-sympathising, Hitler-salute-giving king on the throne. And unlike your theoretical president, we couldn't have voted him out.
But he did fall for Wallis Simpson, because he was a fool. And in Denmark we did actually vote out a potential king because he was a dumb-ass, in favor of his niece, our current queen. So it could be done, both in the UK and in Denmark at the time and probably again today if necessary. Again, there is a lot I don't like about monarchy, and I definitely wouldn't approve of anything which implied the monarchs have real power. But they do a job and I can see it works. Pay them less, force them to send their children to normal schools, make them work harder. All of that.
posted by mumimor at 3:44 PM on April 6, 2020
But he did fall for Wallis Simpson, because he was a fool. And in Denmark we did actually vote out a potential king because he was a dumb-ass, in favor of his niece, our current queen. So it could be done, both in the UK and in Denmark at the time and probably again today if necessary. Again, there is a lot I don't like about monarchy, and I definitely wouldn't approve of anything which implied the monarchs have real power. But they do a job and I can see it works. Pay them less, force them to send their children to normal schools, make them work harder. All of that.
posted by mumimor at 3:44 PM on April 6, 2020
Dominic Raab is the designated heir:
"I don't support the Human Rights Act and I don't support economic and social rights."
Should be fun.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:09 PM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
"I don't support the Human Rights Act and I don't support economic and social rights."
Should be fun.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:09 PM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
It’s interesting, I keep seeing the references to Vera Lynn, which yes, of course, but I haven’t seen anyone connect it to Churchill’s “every man to his post “ speech of 1940.
They know that they have behind them a people who will not flinch or weary of the struggle—hard and protracted though it will be; but that we shall rather draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival, and of a victory won not only for ourselves but for all; a victory won not only for our own time, but for the long and better days that are to come.
Surely there’s a connection there.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 5:34 PM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
They know that they have behind them a people who will not flinch or weary of the struggle—hard and protracted though it will be; but that we shall rather draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival, and of a victory won not only for ourselves but for all; a victory won not only for our own time, but for the long and better days that are to come.
Surely there’s a connection there.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 5:34 PM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
If Johnson dies Raab acts as PM for the day or two it takes the Tory MPs to choose as interim Leader from amongst themselves, whom the Queen will appoint as PM. The Conservative Party will then go through the regular leadership selection process and that Leader will be appointed PM in turn. Of course those could all be the same person.
posted by MattD at 5:38 PM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by MattD at 5:38 PM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Boris Johnson Released From Hospital After Defunding It, Shutting It Down [The Onion]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 6:02 PM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 6:02 PM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Man, they're never gonna start making The Crown.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:16 PM on April 6 [+] [!]
I've really enjoyed learning more about history (understandably fictionialised) through The Crown and was looking forward to seeing more about stuff from my own life time that I vaguely remember. (I think the first time I was shown a Newsweek magazine was when Diana died- we didn't have a big media diet overseas, and I was quite young.)
Agree with those above who are monarchists despite generally having opposite politics, also am thinking with others that my pro-monarchism is perhaps more pro-ERII. There's an odd soft spot I have for the Queen- it's almost like she's a distant member of family. (It didn't help when I was very young that I confused my Uncle Charlie, who lived in another country, for the heir apparent.)
Overall a good speech, and there was a statement to the Commonwealth separately- there was one for Australia in particular that I read.
posted by freethefeet at 7:36 PM on April 6, 2020
posted by kirkaracha at 3:16 PM on April 6 [+] [!]
I've really enjoyed learning more about history (understandably fictionialised) through The Crown and was looking forward to seeing more about stuff from my own life time that I vaguely remember. (I think the first time I was shown a Newsweek magazine was when Diana died- we didn't have a big media diet overseas, and I was quite young.)
Agree with those above who are monarchists despite generally having opposite politics, also am thinking with others that my pro-monarchism is perhaps more pro-ERII. There's an odd soft spot I have for the Queen- it's almost like she's a distant member of family. (It didn't help when I was very young that I confused my Uncle Charlie, who lived in another country, for the heir apparent.)
Overall a good speech, and there was a statement to the Commonwealth separately- there was one for Australia in particular that I read.
posted by freethefeet at 7:36 PM on April 6, 2020
I am a monarchist, even as I fully realize how silly it all is. I love it for its comfort and tradition and continuity, more than anything. As a Canadian, I never quiiiiite feel that she's my monarch (even though she is), but I'm a fan of QE2. A dignified and caring monarch, as far as I can tell. I wish she visited Canada more often, but of course her age is a factor. And I do wish this one had been aimed a little more broadly at the Commonwealth.
Listening to her speeches is reassuring, deep down.
posted by The Hyacinth Girl at 7:44 PM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Listening to her speeches is reassuring, deep down.
posted by The Hyacinth Girl at 7:44 PM on April 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
If it wasn't for the fact that he fell for Wallis Simpson, we'd have had a Nazi-sympathising, Hitler-salute-giving king on the throne.
I'm not so sure of that. It's not like the government has never interfered in Royal matters before when they felt the need was great enough.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:09 AM on April 7, 2020
I'm not so sure of that. It's not like the government has never interfered in Royal matters before when they felt the need was great enough.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:09 AM on April 7, 2020
Image the difference in feeling if Obama had given us a speech on this, instead of the current shitshow. We would feel resolve. We would do the right things. We would minimize the suffering.
I dunno. He might have worn a tan suit during the speech and then caused a civil war.
posted by benzenedream at 8:35 AM on April 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I dunno. He might have worn a tan suit during the speech and then caused a civil war.
posted by benzenedream at 8:35 AM on April 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
If Biden was smarter, he'd be giving this sort of reassuring talk, maybe from the kitchen counter, encouraging people to wear masks and stay home, etc. Talking about how important it is to save as many lives as possible, and the economy will recover, and so on. The time for blame will be later in campaign season.
posted by theora55 at 8:14 PM on April 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 8:14 PM on April 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
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posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:53 PM on April 5, 2020 [31 favorites]