The enduring allure of conspiracies
January 23, 2021 6:02 AM Subscribe
If conspiracy theories are as old as politics, they’re also — in the era of Donald Trump and QAnon — as current as the latest headlines. Earlier this month, the American democracy born of an eighteenth century conspiracy theory faced its most severe threat yet — from another conspiracy theory, that (all evidence to the contrary) the 2020 presidential election was rigged. Are conspiracy theories truly more prevalent and influential today, or does it just seem that way?
The research isn’t clear. Rosenblum and others see evidence that belief in conspiracy theories is increasing and taking dangerous new forms. Others disagree. But scholars generally do agree that conspiracy theories have always existed and always will. They tap into basic aspects of human cognition and psychology, which may help explain why they take hold so easily — and why they’re seemingly impossible to kill.
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Social and emotional factors are likely at play as well. “People are most susceptible to conspiracy theories when particular psychological needs are frustrated,” Douglas says. “Specifically, people need knowledge and certainty to feel safe, secure and in control, and to feel good about themselves and the social groups they belong to.” When these needs are unmet — say, amidst the fear and uncertainty of a global pandemic — conspiracy theories might seem to offer consolation, Douglas says.
But her research suggests that they might actually do the opposite. “Reading about conspiracy theories, instead of making people feel more powerful, makes people feel less powerful,” she says. It may even make people less likely to take actions that would give them more control over their situation.
I stumbled into r/QAnonCasualties on Reddit. It's a subreddit that is not about conspiracy theories. It's about friends and family members who have been sucked in by the Q nonsense cult. Some extremely sad and scary stories.
Of course, I realize some posts there might be fake.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:04 AM on January 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
Of course, I realize some posts there might be fake.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:04 AM on January 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
Thanks for posting this, it's something I've been thinking about a ton recently.
My dad's a QAnon black-piller whose Twitter account (I'm told by friends) has been shut down, doubtless for his nonstop racist, sexist posts, as well as for proselytizing the QAnon gospel. I read with amusement and horror on Inauguration Day the QAnon folks melting down as Joe Biden was not in fact arrested by the military, and as some of them, it seems, came to terms, in real-time, that their entire world over the past 3+ years has been a LARP cult. My dad, who is 70, lost an entire community that he relied on for his sole social support in the span of a few days with the de-platforming across the internet of QAnon groups. I was not surprised then, that he reached out to me via text the night before last to tell me that he is proudly on the board of directors for the 9/11 truther conspiracy theory group, and asked me if I would be proud of him, too. (I thought I had blocked his number, but I had just deleted it. I do not wish to have him in my life.) Setting aside the fact that I, the child, should not really feel compelled for stoke my dad's ego vis a vis pride, of FUCKING COURSE I am not proud of him, I am absolutely horrified by his descent to this place, and I spent a few hours yesterday sobbing at how far down this rabbit hole he's gone, and how irretrievable he is. There's no coming back.
This stuck out to me, " In a chapter memorably titled “Conspiracy Theories Are for Losers,” Uscinski and Parent write that conspiracies are a way for those who’ve lost or lack power to explain their losses, channel their anger, close ranks and regroup." I think this nails a key bit of it. I think there are at least a few reasons why Boomers like my dad are drawn to this way of thinking. For one, my dad lost essentially everything in the subprime mortgage crisis, including his home and a big chunk of his retirement savings, if not all of it. He will never have the retirement he dreamed of. Many Boomers who were impacted by the subprime mortgage crisis looked to their predecessors for this: relaxing years of winery tours, travel, fly fishing, hobby woodworking. But many of these people can't afford to do ANY of that stuff, like my dad, who can only afford to stay home and work on his shitty car. He is a Loser in that way; he Lost Everything due to Late Stage Capitalism, unfettered greed, a government that actively supported the housing collapse (Henry Paulson, etc), and did nothing to save ordinary people from the fallout. The fact that Trump positions himself as an outsider has appeal for people who are actual outsiders.
There is the factor of the internet, of course. I am, as a millennial, savvier with this stuff, but the Boomers, by and large, aren't, especially people like my dad, who grew up in a super rural area and was introduced to a world changing at hyperspeed only about 25 years ago, when he was already like, almost 50. A lot of these people, not just Boomers, don't have the critical information literacy skills that young people develop. Also, people now living off their social security, which is enough for many to basically live but not enough to LIVE, are feckin bored. A choose-your-own-adventure style political conspiracy that nonstop spirals is captivating. The fact that none of the stuff that Q claimed would happen happened wasn't a deterrent for people because further spin could be added to justify why, serving to deepen the mystery and thus the intrigue. Lack of evidence is considered evidence.
Not only that, but a lot of people face a Crisis of Meaning. Some people face a Crisis of Meaning for ages, and this is the perfect opening for something like 9/11 Truthers, QAnon, Flat Earthers, etc to slip in. It can take hold in the most subtle manner; most people aren't overnight flipped, it's a gradual process. My dad's had a Crisis of Meaning for basically my entire life, so now, being old, poor, having ample time on his hands, being socially isolated, access to the unlimited Internet, and emotionally susceptible, and he's gone full cult member mode. He doesn't trust the government, and from his perspective, why should he? He's been failed time and time again, in real and tangible ways. Being the person to Solve the Woes of the GOVERNMENT!!!!!!! probably makes him feel Important and like he has an actual purpose.
It's all very sad and I wish that the organizations that promote this shit were shut down. I am sure there is some kind of fraud operating in the background of a lot of this stuff, which I assume have some kind of grift angle that goes beyond mere delusional thinking.
posted by erattacorrige at 7:18 AM on January 23, 2021 [114 favorites]
My dad's a QAnon black-piller whose Twitter account (I'm told by friends) has been shut down, doubtless for his nonstop racist, sexist posts, as well as for proselytizing the QAnon gospel. I read with amusement and horror on Inauguration Day the QAnon folks melting down as Joe Biden was not in fact arrested by the military, and as some of them, it seems, came to terms, in real-time, that their entire world over the past 3+ years has been a LARP cult. My dad, who is 70, lost an entire community that he relied on for his sole social support in the span of a few days with the de-platforming across the internet of QAnon groups. I was not surprised then, that he reached out to me via text the night before last to tell me that he is proudly on the board of directors for the 9/11 truther conspiracy theory group, and asked me if I would be proud of him, too. (I thought I had blocked his number, but I had just deleted it. I do not wish to have him in my life.) Setting aside the fact that I, the child, should not really feel compelled for stoke my dad's ego vis a vis pride, of FUCKING COURSE I am not proud of him, I am absolutely horrified by his descent to this place, and I spent a few hours yesterday sobbing at how far down this rabbit hole he's gone, and how irretrievable he is. There's no coming back.
This stuck out to me, " In a chapter memorably titled “Conspiracy Theories Are for Losers,” Uscinski and Parent write that conspiracies are a way for those who’ve lost or lack power to explain their losses, channel their anger, close ranks and regroup." I think this nails a key bit of it. I think there are at least a few reasons why Boomers like my dad are drawn to this way of thinking. For one, my dad lost essentially everything in the subprime mortgage crisis, including his home and a big chunk of his retirement savings, if not all of it. He will never have the retirement he dreamed of. Many Boomers who were impacted by the subprime mortgage crisis looked to their predecessors for this: relaxing years of winery tours, travel, fly fishing, hobby woodworking. But many of these people can't afford to do ANY of that stuff, like my dad, who can only afford to stay home and work on his shitty car. He is a Loser in that way; he Lost Everything due to Late Stage Capitalism, unfettered greed, a government that actively supported the housing collapse (Henry Paulson, etc), and did nothing to save ordinary people from the fallout. The fact that Trump positions himself as an outsider has appeal for people who are actual outsiders.
There is the factor of the internet, of course. I am, as a millennial, savvier with this stuff, but the Boomers, by and large, aren't, especially people like my dad, who grew up in a super rural area and was introduced to a world changing at hyperspeed only about 25 years ago, when he was already like, almost 50. A lot of these people, not just Boomers, don't have the critical information literacy skills that young people develop. Also, people now living off their social security, which is enough for many to basically live but not enough to LIVE, are feckin bored. A choose-your-own-adventure style political conspiracy that nonstop spirals is captivating. The fact that none of the stuff that Q claimed would happen happened wasn't a deterrent for people because further spin could be added to justify why, serving to deepen the mystery and thus the intrigue. Lack of evidence is considered evidence.
Not only that, but a lot of people face a Crisis of Meaning. Some people face a Crisis of Meaning for ages, and this is the perfect opening for something like 9/11 Truthers, QAnon, Flat Earthers, etc to slip in. It can take hold in the most subtle manner; most people aren't overnight flipped, it's a gradual process. My dad's had a Crisis of Meaning for basically my entire life, so now, being old, poor, having ample time on his hands, being socially isolated, access to the unlimited Internet, and emotionally susceptible, and he's gone full cult member mode. He doesn't trust the government, and from his perspective, why should he? He's been failed time and time again, in real and tangible ways. Being the person to Solve the Woes of the GOVERNMENT!!!!!!! probably makes him feel Important and like he has an actual purpose.
It's all very sad and I wish that the organizations that promote this shit were shut down. I am sure there is some kind of fraud operating in the background of a lot of this stuff, which I assume have some kind of grift angle that goes beyond mere delusional thinking.
posted by erattacorrige at 7:18 AM on January 23, 2021 [114 favorites]
What baffled me the most about QAnon was that I saw people in my peer group - university-educated, upper-middle-class - flirting very hard with this stuff, if not going all-in. It didn't matter that we carefully avoid political discussions for this very reason - there would be always be a parting shot of some kind along the lines of "have you heard about X lately? Just do the research!"
But then I read through this article (2 or 3 times now) and things started to clear up a bit, and certainly some of the tools towards the end should be useful for The Next Thing, whatever it may be.
posted by jquinby at 7:40 AM on January 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
But then I read through this article (2 or 3 times now) and things started to clear up a bit, and certainly some of the tools towards the end should be useful for The Next Thing, whatever it may be.
posted by jquinby at 7:40 AM on January 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm very interested in understanding QAnon. I'm seeing and hearing stories of otherwise functionally intelligent people accepting absurd theories without a modicum of critical thinking. Like "you don't have to google this to come up with 3 major problems."
This is just a theory:
Most everyone is capable of suppressing critical thinking for various reasons. If someone you love and trust tells you lies you want to believe ("Nothing happened between us, I swear", "I've stopped gambling") maybe you'll practice suppressing critical thinking to make your life easier.
Trump, beloved and trusted by millions, has been telling outrageous, easily checked lies for years. His followers have had to keep their critical thinking turned way down for several years. It's practically become a skill.
Along comes QAnon with its gamified-apophenia and they are completely defenseless. A new fact comes in that feels good and it never even passes through a critical thinking filter. The shields are down.
posted by justkevin at 7:51 AM on January 23, 2021 [16 favorites]
This is just a theory:
Most everyone is capable of suppressing critical thinking for various reasons. If someone you love and trust tells you lies you want to believe ("Nothing happened between us, I swear", "I've stopped gambling") maybe you'll practice suppressing critical thinking to make your life easier.
Trump, beloved and trusted by millions, has been telling outrageous, easily checked lies for years. His followers have had to keep their critical thinking turned way down for several years. It's practically become a skill.
Along comes QAnon with its gamified-apophenia and they are completely defenseless. A new fact comes in that feels good and it never even passes through a critical thinking filter. The shields are down.
posted by justkevin at 7:51 AM on January 23, 2021 [16 favorites]
If you are interested in more critical analysis of cults, see the podcasts Knowledge Fight, TrueAnon, Cults, Conspiracy Theories, Gaslit Nation, QAnon Anonymous, etc. There are a lot of good ones out there.
posted by erattacorrige at 8:01 AM on January 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by erattacorrige at 8:01 AM on January 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
On topic, this was scary to hear this morning: Biden Is President, But Some In Rural West Still Cling To False Notion That Trump Won
posted by y2karl at 8:01 AM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 8:01 AM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
As for my previously than last comment, here is a PDF of excerpts from Science Fiction Is Too Conservative by G. Harry Stine published in the May 1961 issue of Analog. Arthur C. Clarke also wrote similarly themed fact articles in other science fiction magazines at the time.
posted by y2karl at 8:29 AM on January 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 8:29 AM on January 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
Anyone who read science fact articles in science fiction magazines in the 1960s knew this sort of geometric historical progression was coming, asymptopic trend curves and all. It's not news to us.
by way of evidence, here's Marshall McLuhan from 1967. The Medium is the Massage
To which I'd add a further McLuhanism. That we tend to move backward into the future with most of our attention fixed on the past, only seeing what's coming through a metaphorical rearview mirror. In other words, it's a human thing to miss much of "... this sort of geometric historical progression [which is] coming, asymptopic trend curves and all".
Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone. Some of us develop the good habit (and it is a habit, I think) of looking forward, or at least looking at what is actually happening in the THE NOW. I do think a large part of this requires building one's tolerance for being confused ... without panicking. And I suspect the younger we are, the easier it is to develop this habit, because we haven't yet made our minds up about what is/isn't real. But most don't and/or won't develop the habit because it takes work and can be painful, and sure enough, in time, will fall into their own null zones of potential wilful reality denial.
posted by philip-random at 8:42 AM on January 23, 2021 [10 favorites]
by way of evidence, here's Marshall McLuhan from 1967. The Medium is the Massage
To which I'd add a further McLuhanism. That we tend to move backward into the future with most of our attention fixed on the past, only seeing what's coming through a metaphorical rearview mirror. In other words, it's a human thing to miss much of "... this sort of geometric historical progression [which is] coming, asymptopic trend curves and all".
Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone. Some of us develop the good habit (and it is a habit, I think) of looking forward, or at least looking at what is actually happening in the THE NOW. I do think a large part of this requires building one's tolerance for being confused ... without panicking. And I suspect the younger we are, the easier it is to develop this habit, because we haven't yet made our minds up about what is/isn't real. But most don't and/or won't develop the habit because it takes work and can be painful, and sure enough, in time, will fall into their own null zones of potential wilful reality denial.
posted by philip-random at 8:42 AM on January 23, 2021 [10 favorites]
The United States has always been full of true believing idiots, a land of cults that mopped up Europe's extremists over the years, and they weren't even hiding, they were just the norm.
Still sinners in the hands of an angry god, then; we need to update our internal metaphors of self.
That we tend to move backward into the future with most of our attention fixed on the past, only seeing what's coming through a metaphorical rearview mirror.
This is so true, and I think it's a facet of a human being's tendency to project themselves outward, strongly and pervasively, so that everything is refracted through one's conceptual biases, prejudices, filters, etc., which is vastly accelerated and enhanced by increasingly sophisticated communication media. Doors of perception and all. (Which pushes the kinds of insights McLuhan at al were updating in the 20th century back to at least the 18th century, so this really is nothing new except by degree--which is, admittedly, profound).
posted by LooseFilter at 9:01 AM on January 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
Still sinners in the hands of an angry god, then; we need to update our internal metaphors of self.
That we tend to move backward into the future with most of our attention fixed on the past, only seeing what's coming through a metaphorical rearview mirror.
This is so true, and I think it's a facet of a human being's tendency to project themselves outward, strongly and pervasively, so that everything is refracted through one's conceptual biases, prejudices, filters, etc., which is vastly accelerated and enhanced by increasingly sophisticated communication media. Doors of perception and all. (Which pushes the kinds of insights McLuhan at al were updating in the 20th century back to at least the 18th century, so this really is nothing new except by degree--which is, admittedly, profound).
posted by LooseFilter at 9:01 AM on January 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
Conspiracy theories are on the rise, because they are profitable to Facebook, Google, and other social media and advertising companies to spread them on their platforms. How to stop them before they take root? There is research into computational tools to analyze and discover disinformation campaigns, which may help with future governments setting up more automated regulatory regimes needed to control content, given the damage that they cause (violent insurrection being one recent example here in the US; Brexit and other populist right-wing movements in Europe; Saracen "fake news" movement in Indonesia, etc.).
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:08 AM on January 23, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:08 AM on January 23, 2021 [11 favorites]
My own amateur and evidence-free theory (though it does jibe with the ideas of some of the researchers) is that believers get four psychological crutches from these beliefs:
1. A feeling of certainty (by permanently discounting contrary evidence as tainted/fake)
2. A catch-all scapegoat (they can direct all their anger and blame for every bad thing at the conspirators)
3. Simplicity of worldview (the real world is incredibly complex, the conspiracy explanation simplifies things).
4. A feeling of superiority (as non-believers are too dumb to see the truth)
And attacks on the beliefs undermine all these psychological crutches so are resisted very strongly. I think no. 1, certainty, may be the most powerful motivation, but I'm just guessing.
posted by mokey at 9:14 AM on January 23, 2021 [11 favorites]
1. A feeling of certainty (by permanently discounting contrary evidence as tainted/fake)
2. A catch-all scapegoat (they can direct all their anger and blame for every bad thing at the conspirators)
3. Simplicity of worldview (the real world is incredibly complex, the conspiracy explanation simplifies things).
4. A feeling of superiority (as non-believers are too dumb to see the truth)
And attacks on the beliefs undermine all these psychological crutches so are resisted very strongly. I think no. 1, certainty, may be the most powerful motivation, but I'm just guessing.
posted by mokey at 9:14 AM on January 23, 2021 [11 favorites]
What baffled me the most about QAnon was that I saw people in my peer group - university-educated, upper-middle-class - flirting very hard with this stuff, if not going all-in. It didn't matter that we carefully avoid political discussions for this very reason - there would be always be a parting shot of some kind along the lines of "have you heard about X lately? Just do the research!"
I don't think anybody is immune. I find various MeFites demonstrate regularly easily how we could be vulnerable to conspiratorial thinking on a variety of topics. If only the ecosystem were amenable to such thing. I don't think it's just moderators who keep it in check. It's also diverse users and moderation policy that does it.
With the Right, there has been in development over decades of whole media empires who increasingly found profit in going more extreme, actively encouraging alternate reality.
Internet era outlets like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc, contribute by by allowing users to curate their own media consumption by algorithm, with no input at all by third parties. In a slightly earlier age, you had to specifically seek out those usenet cesspools. Social media evolved to make suggestions based on your consumption and connections. You build your own echo chamber with almost no effort at all and not knowing it ever happened.
Additionally, presenting news narratives without equivocaton is always appealing. Nobody gets likes by laying out complicated stories with no clear bad guys. Furthermore, I think one key characteristic among the American Right is described by Ronald Reagan's Eleventh Commandment, which values solidarity above things like truthfulness or honesty.
All these things together almost describe a cult more than political polarity.
I don't think there's an easy fix. The prospect of government regulating speech seems to get some distressing support, in what is truly a "both sides do it" kind of scenario. The Left really should know better about how this plays out. The Right is counting on how it plays out.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:16 AM on January 23, 2021 [27 favorites]
I don't think anybody is immune. I find various MeFites demonstrate regularly easily how we could be vulnerable to conspiratorial thinking on a variety of topics. If only the ecosystem were amenable to such thing. I don't think it's just moderators who keep it in check. It's also diverse users and moderation policy that does it.
With the Right, there has been in development over decades of whole media empires who increasingly found profit in going more extreme, actively encouraging alternate reality.
Internet era outlets like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc, contribute by by allowing users to curate their own media consumption by algorithm, with no input at all by third parties. In a slightly earlier age, you had to specifically seek out those usenet cesspools. Social media evolved to make suggestions based on your consumption and connections. You build your own echo chamber with almost no effort at all and not knowing it ever happened.
Additionally, presenting news narratives without equivocaton is always appealing. Nobody gets likes by laying out complicated stories with no clear bad guys. Furthermore, I think one key characteristic among the American Right is described by Ronald Reagan's Eleventh Commandment, which values solidarity above things like truthfulness or honesty.
All these things together almost describe a cult more than political polarity.
I don't think there's an easy fix. The prospect of government regulating speech seems to get some distressing support, in what is truly a "both sides do it" kind of scenario. The Left really should know better about how this plays out. The Right is counting on how it plays out.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:16 AM on January 23, 2021 [27 favorites]
Conspiracy theories are on the rise, because they are profitable to Facebook, Google, and other social media and advertising companies to spread them on their platforms.
This is well explained in the Netflix documentary: The Social Dilemma. Essentially, the platforms are purposely designed to amplify controversy and seek joiners.
posted by Brian B. at 9:20 AM on January 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
This is well explained in the Netflix documentary: The Social Dilemma. Essentially, the platforms are purposely designed to amplify controversy and seek joiners.
posted by Brian B. at 9:20 AM on January 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
Most everyone is capable of suppressing critical thinking for various reasons. If someone you love and trust tells you lies you want to believe ("Nothing happened between us, I swear", "I've stopped gambling") maybe you'll practice suppressing critical thinking to make your life easier.
I think this is the other way around; critical thinking is metabolically costly. We don’t have to suppress it; all one has to do is fail to engage it.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:21 AM on January 23, 2021 [21 favorites]
I think this is the other way around; critical thinking is metabolically costly. We don’t have to suppress it; all one has to do is fail to engage it.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:21 AM on January 23, 2021 [21 favorites]
There's a Great Courses series on the history of secret societies that provides a lot of valuable context to the current political mess. What I gathered from it was
a) secret societies are a very useful political tool
b) that have been around forever
c) they're very handy for toppling governments
d) talking about them makes you sound crazy
e) this is by design
I highly recommend the course. It's taught by Richard B. Spence.
posted by MrVisible at 9:22 AM on January 23, 2021 [13 favorites]
a) secret societies are a very useful political tool
b) that have been around forever
c) they're very handy for toppling governments
d) talking about them makes you sound crazy
e) this is by design
I highly recommend the course. It's taught by Richard B. Spence.
posted by MrVisible at 9:22 AM on January 23, 2021 [13 favorites]
There are a lot of folk-religion beliefs that precondition people to accepting things with no evidence. Even assuming the Bible is literally true (I'm an atheist, so this doesn't apply to me), nowhere in the Bible is there a concept of personal "Guardian Angels", and yet a lot of my friends believe in them. There is no "heaven" in the Bible that exists before the end times, but we all have a shared New-Yorker-cartoon vision of people on clouds with robes and wings. And my friends who believe in this type of Heaven also believe in ghosts, and if I point out that they might need to clarify to themselves how both of these things coexist, they shrug like I'm being picky. These people also believe in UFOs, and don't dwell on the theological complexities of that. We let these things pass out of politeness since no one is harmed by illogical contradictory beliefs like these. However, we're left with people who want to wish away climate change and pandemics and are personally affronted by facts.
Since I'm a scientist, I always think the answer is showing people that, as imperfect a tool as science is, it is the best we have, plus it is fun. I have friends who believe the Earth was created a couple thousand years ago and the first humans were Adam and Eve. That's a fine fable, but by accepting it as truth, those people can't experience the sheer joy and exhilaration that I feel when I read that Neanderthals had genes for red hair, and Ice Age horses had genes for spots just like the ones depicted in cave paintings.
posted by acrasis at 9:23 AM on January 23, 2021 [19 favorites]
Since I'm a scientist, I always think the answer is showing people that, as imperfect a tool as science is, it is the best we have, plus it is fun. I have friends who believe the Earth was created a couple thousand years ago and the first humans were Adam and Eve. That's a fine fable, but by accepting it as truth, those people can't experience the sheer joy and exhilaration that I feel when I read that Neanderthals had genes for red hair, and Ice Age horses had genes for spots just like the ones depicted in cave paintings.
posted by acrasis at 9:23 AM on January 23, 2021 [19 favorites]
the American democracy born of an eighteenth century conspiracy theory faced its most severe threat yet
🙄
What's that about suppressing critical thinking?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:27 AM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
🙄
What's that about suppressing critical thinking?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:27 AM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't think anybody is immune. I find various MeFites demonstrate regularly easily how we could be vulnerable to conspiratorial thinking on a variety of topics.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot the last few days- how it’s a lot of luck that it this election wasn’t the 2016 election, because the environment is ripe for conspiracy theories. They were already there in 2016 and 2017 from Hillary’s loss, but they were from the more fringe left. Those that voted for Jill Stein were especially likely to perpetuate them; and while there is some truth to the concerns over Bernie Sanders during the den primary, many Bernie Bros fell down the conspiracy rabbithole hard.
Even now; I question myself, am I making the same mistakes I’m accusing Trumpers and Qanon of? I’m sure of it; as I just don’t have time to watch and pick apart every conspiratorial piece of “evidence” referenced. I don’t think I need to; but that certainty arriving from a confidence in the knowledge I already have would lead me down the wrong path just as easily.
I do think the left generally attracts more people less prone to this kind of thinking; those that are in the sciences, for example, have practice understanding their own biases and trying to engage critically with new information, and most people in science I know fall on the left side of politics. But it’s in no way absolute protection against conspiratorial thinking.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:33 AM on January 23, 2021 [13 favorites]
I’ve been thinking about this a lot the last few days- how it’s a lot of luck that it this election wasn’t the 2016 election, because the environment is ripe for conspiracy theories. They were already there in 2016 and 2017 from Hillary’s loss, but they were from the more fringe left. Those that voted for Jill Stein were especially likely to perpetuate them; and while there is some truth to the concerns over Bernie Sanders during the den primary, many Bernie Bros fell down the conspiracy rabbithole hard.
Even now; I question myself, am I making the same mistakes I’m accusing Trumpers and Qanon of? I’m sure of it; as I just don’t have time to watch and pick apart every conspiratorial piece of “evidence” referenced. I don’t think I need to; but that certainty arriving from a confidence in the knowledge I already have would lead me down the wrong path just as easily.
I do think the left generally attracts more people less prone to this kind of thinking; those that are in the sciences, for example, have practice understanding their own biases and trying to engage critically with new information, and most people in science I know fall on the left side of politics. But it’s in no way absolute protection against conspiratorial thinking.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:33 AM on January 23, 2021 [13 favorites]
The thing is, conspiracies exist. Trump just recently attempted to conspire to turn over the US election.
There was a right wing conspiracy to find dirt on Bill Clinton, even though he was the most powerful man in the world, or probably because he was that .
I think most conspiracies are stupid, but that doesn't mean they can't do any harm. My theory is that they are stupid because conspiracies are stupid people's means to get something they cannot achieve legally and transparently, often because they are too stupid to figure out the legal, transparent method. And because they believe in conspiracy theories and respond to the conspiracies they perceive with their own mirror versions. Trump is good example of that. In the end, he failed, but he did a lot of damage on the way.
But our reaction to Trump has been a failure, too. We have all (up to and including Hillary Clinton) focused on his apparent stupidity, and spent a lot of time discussing wether he is demented, and I think that missed the point. I'm not sure what should have been done, or could have been done (I'm thinking, may come back to the thread). I think calling out Trump's actions has in general been more efficient than discussing his IQ.
That all said, I don't think you can tell who will fall for a wacky conspiracy theory. One of my colleagues, a formerly very highly esteemed professor, is a world leader in the 9-11 conspiracy community. He is no no way a loser. I think the attack broke his heart or something, he is very fond of concrete structures. I don't know him personally, but I'm sure those who do have tried to talk him out of it using facts.
I fell for a Sarah Palin conspiracy theory. I don't even remember what is was about. I guess I needed an extra reason to hate her, as if there weren't enough out in the open.
In another thread, I mentioned that my ex was an avid believer in conspiracy theories. At the time we were married, we were extraordinarily succesful and people within our profession saw us as a glamorous couple. He had no reason to believe in conspiracies, but he did. He was constitutionally unable to believe in what was in plain sight. He was also a pathological liar, and I think that was/is part of it. If you are always lying, even when it makes no sense at all, you probably believe everyone else lies, too.
posted by mumimor at 9:42 AM on January 23, 2021 [17 favorites]
There was a right wing conspiracy to find dirt on Bill Clinton, even though he was the most powerful man in the world, or probably because he was that .
I think most conspiracies are stupid, but that doesn't mean they can't do any harm. My theory is that they are stupid because conspiracies are stupid people's means to get something they cannot achieve legally and transparently, often because they are too stupid to figure out the legal, transparent method. And because they believe in conspiracy theories and respond to the conspiracies they perceive with their own mirror versions. Trump is good example of that. In the end, he failed, but he did a lot of damage on the way.
But our reaction to Trump has been a failure, too. We have all (up to and including Hillary Clinton) focused on his apparent stupidity, and spent a lot of time discussing wether he is demented, and I think that missed the point. I'm not sure what should have been done, or could have been done (I'm thinking, may come back to the thread). I think calling out Trump's actions has in general been more efficient than discussing his IQ.
That all said, I don't think you can tell who will fall for a wacky conspiracy theory. One of my colleagues, a formerly very highly esteemed professor, is a world leader in the 9-11 conspiracy community. He is no no way a loser. I think the attack broke his heart or something, he is very fond of concrete structures. I don't know him personally, but I'm sure those who do have tried to talk him out of it using facts.
I fell for a Sarah Palin conspiracy theory. I don't even remember what is was about. I guess I needed an extra reason to hate her, as if there weren't enough out in the open.
In another thread, I mentioned that my ex was an avid believer in conspiracy theories. At the time we were married, we were extraordinarily succesful and people within our profession saw us as a glamorous couple. He had no reason to believe in conspiracies, but he did. He was constitutionally unable to believe in what was in plain sight. He was also a pathological liar, and I think that was/is part of it. If you are always lying, even when it makes no sense at all, you probably believe everyone else lies, too.
posted by mumimor at 9:42 AM on January 23, 2021 [17 favorites]
This is well explained in the Netflix documentary: The Social Dilemma. Essentially, the platforms are purposely designed to amplify controversy and seek joiners.
Yes -- it is a mistake to think that these platforms are somehow self-generating works, auto-curated by users. These platforms are designed specifically by their corporate owners to amplify whatever is the most profitable noise at a given point in time.
Always in conjunction with advertising for one or another product. Paramilitary gear, for instance, during the violent insurrection.
Regulatory vacuums -- some of them deliberately engineered, as in the case with the US First Amendment, corrupted to give corporations rights previously allowed only to human beings -- allow these networks to monetize transactional noise, regardless of the societal costs incurred.
In the long run, this is not sustainable. The scale of the damage done as these platforms grow will require regulations of some variety or another. Tools that let us keep up with conspiracies as they are spread in real time may help, as much as understanding the conditions that let those take hold, in the first place.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:43 AM on January 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
Yes -- it is a mistake to think that these platforms are somehow self-generating works, auto-curated by users. These platforms are designed specifically by their corporate owners to amplify whatever is the most profitable noise at a given point in time.
Always in conjunction with advertising for one or another product. Paramilitary gear, for instance, during the violent insurrection.
Regulatory vacuums -- some of them deliberately engineered, as in the case with the US First Amendment, corrupted to give corporations rights previously allowed only to human beings -- allow these networks to monetize transactional noise, regardless of the societal costs incurred.
In the long run, this is not sustainable. The scale of the damage done as these platforms grow will require regulations of some variety or another. Tools that let us keep up with conspiracies as they are spread in real time may help, as much as understanding the conditions that let those take hold, in the first place.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:43 AM on January 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
Even now; I question myself, am I making the same mistakes I’m accusing Trumpers and Qanon of? I’m sure of it; as I just don’t have time to watch and pick apart every conspiratorial piece of “evidence” referenced. I don’t think I need to; but that certainty arriving from a confidence in the knowledge I already have would lead me down the wrong path just as easily.
It's good to question your own beliefs, but the fact that you considered "wait, how do I know this is true?" means you are not making the same mistakes they are.
posted by justkevin at 9:44 AM on January 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
It's good to question your own beliefs, but the fact that you considered "wait, how do I know this is true?" means you are not making the same mistakes they are.
posted by justkevin at 9:44 AM on January 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
the American democracy born of an eighteenth century conspiracy theory faced its most severe threat yet
It helped that we were sitting on the rich land and the landlords were very distant. It was a geographical fate to break away and keep the profits for ourselves, rather than feed their status.
I do think the left generally attracts more people less prone to this kind of thinking
Black and white thinking is the main thing, where anything can be seen as opposition. The problem is that different values are merely different priorities, but these are presented as diametric. One is good, the other evil, which also tells us that their evaluation as practical or intelligent has been ignored. This phenomenon can cause anyone on either "side" to adjust their thinking toward an extreme by following the line of opposition itself, where more intensity or passion is more good, and where relative moderates appear uncommitted, disloyal, or suspicious. The result of passion sanctifying thoughts is that the two primitive emotions we socially evolved with are triggered, namely pride and shame, or self-righteousness and finger-pointing.
posted by Brian B. at 9:58 AM on January 23, 2021 [9 favorites]
It helped that we were sitting on the rich land and the landlords were very distant. It was a geographical fate to break away and keep the profits for ourselves, rather than feed their status.
I do think the left generally attracts more people less prone to this kind of thinking
Black and white thinking is the main thing, where anything can be seen as opposition. The problem is that different values are merely different priorities, but these are presented as diametric. One is good, the other evil, which also tells us that their evaluation as practical or intelligent has been ignored. This phenomenon can cause anyone on either "side" to adjust their thinking toward an extreme by following the line of opposition itself, where more intensity or passion is more good, and where relative moderates appear uncommitted, disloyal, or suspicious. The result of passion sanctifying thoughts is that the two primitive emotions we socially evolved with are triggered, namely pride and shame, or self-righteousness and finger-pointing.
posted by Brian B. at 9:58 AM on January 23, 2021 [9 favorites]
I have developed a reflex of quadruple-checking the sources of anything that sounds like what I want to hear before repeating it, to avoid feeling mortified if it's debunked a day later. I think this is a good reflex to have.
It's also good to give political speculation a good shave with Occam's Razor when it starts growing 5D chess subplots.
posted by confluency at 10:05 AM on January 23, 2021 [13 favorites]
It's also good to give political speculation a good shave with Occam's Razor when it starts growing 5D chess subplots.
posted by confluency at 10:05 AM on January 23, 2021 [13 favorites]
Another thing: for many people, ordinary political practice can seem conspiratorial. I volunteer in an organisation where we among many other things have opinions on planning proposals. One of my former co-volunteers there wrote a several pages long thing about a former administration conspiring to do something evil. I had to say that we can't publish that kind of insanity. The truth is that the legislation is bad, and serves a purpose I strongly disapprove of, but there was nothing secret about it. It was that administration's stated policy and they had the votes. For someone who doesn't follow politics closely, it seemed like the legislation was sneaked in without anyone noticing, because you had to read geeky politics media to see it happening in real time.
posted by mumimor at 10:20 AM on January 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 10:20 AM on January 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
2N222: "I don't think there's an easy fix. The prospect of government regulating speech seems to get some distressing support, in what is truly a "both sides do it" kind of scenario. The Left really should know better about how this plays out. The Right is counting on how it plays out."
I'm pathetically grateful to see you say that. I've been seeing near-unanimity on the left that the control of speech couldn't turn around and bite them.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 10:59 AM on January 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'm pathetically grateful to see you say that. I've been seeing near-unanimity on the left that the control of speech couldn't turn around and bite them.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 10:59 AM on January 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
I will say that during the Trump administration I found myself totally incapable of listening to anyone at all arguing even the most minimal defenses of Trump. I pretty much cut out all media that involved talking to Trump supporters or Trump surrogates. I listened to my local NPR affiliate for decades and then totally cut it out of my life. For four years!
I had absolutely zero interest, because I was convinced (and still am) that nearly every single policy idea out of Trump's administration was a steaming pile of poisoned dogshit and didn't deserve my attention. These people are mendacious assholes who are both personally and politically vile.
So my info bubble changed radically. I replaced it with, mostly, lefty and hard-centrist podcasts who spent less time interviewing people and more time in analysis of the shitstorm-of-the-week. I didn't really fall down any conspiracy rabbit holes but I can understand unplugging from certain Mainstream Media outlets and turning toward sources that you find actually informative that doesn't waste your time with stuff you have already prejudged as bullshit.
posted by BungaDunga at 11:03 AM on January 23, 2021 [15 favorites]
I had absolutely zero interest, because I was convinced (and still am) that nearly every single policy idea out of Trump's administration was a steaming pile of poisoned dogshit and didn't deserve my attention. These people are mendacious assholes who are both personally and politically vile.
So my info bubble changed radically. I replaced it with, mostly, lefty and hard-centrist podcasts who spent less time interviewing people and more time in analysis of the shitstorm-of-the-week. I didn't really fall down any conspiracy rabbit holes but I can understand unplugging from certain Mainstream Media outlets and turning toward sources that you find actually informative that doesn't waste your time with stuff you have already prejudged as bullshit.
posted by BungaDunga at 11:03 AM on January 23, 2021 [15 favorites]
“The general hypothesis that’s put out there in the media is [that] everyone’s becoming conspiracists, and now is the golden age of conspiracy theory,” Uscinski says. “We find no such thing whatsoever.”
Uscinski’s research suggests that conspiracy thinking is more or less evenly distributed across the political spectrum...
That's also what Jesse Walker's book The United States of Paranoia: A Conspiracy Theory (2013) finds.
posted by doctornemo at 11:37 AM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
Uscinski’s research suggests that conspiracy thinking is more or less evenly distributed across the political spectrum...
That's also what Jesse Walker's book The United States of Paranoia: A Conspiracy Theory (2013) finds.
posted by doctornemo at 11:37 AM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
Re: constantly checking sources for fear of being duped - I will fully admit that I have had trouble believing what happened on January 6th for this reason. The stories are straight out of crazy town. On the day I thought it was outrageous but looked like nut jobs just a little out of control. I might still think that if not for the mountain of evidence otherwise. I’m still teetering in disbelief.
posted by double bubble at 11:49 AM on January 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by double bubble at 11:49 AM on January 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Right now the NY Times has a video on it's front page, from seconds before the woman is shot, she is peeking around the guys breaking the glass with a flag pole. But, it looks like two Capitol police officers are up against the wall, chatting and not defending the Capitol. And danged if it doesn't look like Josh Hawley standing alongside the officers, also doing nothing to stop the breech or protect the woman who will die. Looks just like that.
posted by Oyéah at 12:12 PM on January 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 12:12 PM on January 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hitler in Antarctica
As conspiratorial fantasizing spreads more widely thanks to digital technology, taking ever more extreme forms as it travels, even the most casual onlooker might feel that there is indeed a conspiracy underway, nothing less than a worldwide conspiracy of conspiracy theorists, whether motivated by cultic rapture, Machiavellian scheming, entrepreneurial zest, or the adrenaline of gaming. Perhaps it is a matter of surrendering, out of discontented boredom, to the pleasures of connecting dots, feasting on the “Easter eggs” (hidden images or messages) planted as treats for diligent consumers of video games and blockbuster movies and on the cryptic “breadcrumbs” laid out to provide hints for devotees of QAnon. Facts are confining and dispiriting; fantasy is unbounded and exhilarating even when goaded on by dread. These are narratives of escape, even if they must culminate—as they so often do—in a dream of annihilation. (emph. added)
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:16 PM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
As conspiratorial fantasizing spreads more widely thanks to digital technology, taking ever more extreme forms as it travels, even the most casual onlooker might feel that there is indeed a conspiracy underway, nothing less than a worldwide conspiracy of conspiracy theorists, whether motivated by cultic rapture, Machiavellian scheming, entrepreneurial zest, or the adrenaline of gaming. Perhaps it is a matter of surrendering, out of discontented boredom, to the pleasures of connecting dots, feasting on the “Easter eggs” (hidden images or messages) planted as treats for diligent consumers of video games and blockbuster movies and on the cryptic “breadcrumbs” laid out to provide hints for devotees of QAnon. Facts are confining and dispiriting; fantasy is unbounded and exhilarating even when goaded on by dread. These are narratives of escape, even if they must culminate—as they so often do—in a dream of annihilation. (emph. added)
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:16 PM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
And danged if it doesn't look like Josh Hawley standing alongside the officers, also doing nothing to stop the breech or protect the woman who will die. Looks just like that.
I'm pretty sure Josh Hawley was in the secure spaces along with all the other congresspeople. But those officers are not doing anything.
posted by mumimor at 12:33 PM on January 23, 2021
I'm pretty sure Josh Hawley was in the secure spaces along with all the other congresspeople. But those officers are not doing anything.
posted by mumimor at 12:33 PM on January 23, 2021
Among the Insurrectionists
It seems unlikely that what happened on January 6th will turn anyone who inhabits such an ecosystem against Trump. On the contrary, there are already indications that the mayhem at the Capitol will further isolate and galvanize many right-wingers. The morning after the siege, an alternative narrative, pushed by Jones and other conspiracists, went viral on Parler: the assault on the Capitol had actually been instigated by Antifa agitators impersonating Trump supporters. Mo Brooks, an Alabama congressman who led the House effort to contest the certification of the Electoral College votes, tweeted, “Evidence growing that fascist ANTIFA orchestrated Capitol attack with clever mob control tactics.” (Brooks had warmed up the crowd for Trump on January 6th, with a speech whose bellicosity far surpassed the President’s. “Today is the day American patriots start takin’ down names and kickin’ ass!” he’d hollered.) Most of the “evidence” of Antifa involvement seems to be photographs of rioters clad in black. Never mind that, in early January, Tarrio, the Proud Boys chairman, wrote on Parler, “We might dress in all BLACK for the occasion.” Or that his colleague Joe Biggs, addressing antifascist activists, added, “We are going to smell like you, move like you, and look like you.”
Not long after the Brooks tweet, I got a call from a woman I’d met at previous Stop the Steal rallies. She had been unable to come to D.C., owing to a recent surgery. She asked if I could tell her what I’d seen, and if the stories about Antifa were accurate. She was upset—she did not believe that “Trump people” could have done what the media were alleging. Before I responded, she put me on speakerphone. I could hear other people in the room. We spoke for a while, and it was plain that they desperately wanted to know the truth. I did my best to convey it to them as I understood it.
Less than an hour after we got off the phone, the woman texted me a screenshot of a CNN broadcast with a news bulletin that read, “antifa has taken responsiblitly for storming capital hill.” The image, which had been circulating on social media, was crudely Photoshopped (and poorly spelled). “Thought you might want to see this,” she wrote.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:33 PM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
It seems unlikely that what happened on January 6th will turn anyone who inhabits such an ecosystem against Trump. On the contrary, there are already indications that the mayhem at the Capitol will further isolate and galvanize many right-wingers. The morning after the siege, an alternative narrative, pushed by Jones and other conspiracists, went viral on Parler: the assault on the Capitol had actually been instigated by Antifa agitators impersonating Trump supporters. Mo Brooks, an Alabama congressman who led the House effort to contest the certification of the Electoral College votes, tweeted, “Evidence growing that fascist ANTIFA orchestrated Capitol attack with clever mob control tactics.” (Brooks had warmed up the crowd for Trump on January 6th, with a speech whose bellicosity far surpassed the President’s. “Today is the day American patriots start takin’ down names and kickin’ ass!” he’d hollered.) Most of the “evidence” of Antifa involvement seems to be photographs of rioters clad in black. Never mind that, in early January, Tarrio, the Proud Boys chairman, wrote on Parler, “We might dress in all BLACK for the occasion.” Or that his colleague Joe Biggs, addressing antifascist activists, added, “We are going to smell like you, move like you, and look like you.”
Not long after the Brooks tweet, I got a call from a woman I’d met at previous Stop the Steal rallies. She had been unable to come to D.C., owing to a recent surgery. She asked if I could tell her what I’d seen, and if the stories about Antifa were accurate. She was upset—she did not believe that “Trump people” could have done what the media were alleging. Before I responded, she put me on speakerphone. I could hear other people in the room. We spoke for a while, and it was plain that they desperately wanted to know the truth. I did my best to convey it to them as I understood it.
Less than an hour after we got off the phone, the woman texted me a screenshot of a CNN broadcast with a news bulletin that read, “antifa has taken responsiblitly for storming capital hill.” The image, which had been circulating on social media, was crudely Photoshopped (and poorly spelled). “Thought you might want to see this,” she wrote.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:33 PM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
BungaDunga: “I will say that during the Trump administration I found myself totally incapable of listening to anyone at all arguing even the most minimal defenses of Trump. I pretty much cut out all media that involved talking to Trump supporters or Trump surrogates. I listened to my local NPR affiliate for decades and then totally cut it out of my life. For four years!”I was a daily viewer of NHK World for several years before 2016. Which meant I saw their Newsline program multiple times per day, as it airs every half-hour most days. I haven't watched NHK World live since the day Abe flew to New York to suck up to Trump. ( A story for which I couldn't find a link on the NHK World website.) Maybe now I could go back, but I'm not sure how or why I'd change my new viewing habit.
As for the rank-and-file Republicans who have believed in increasingly paranoid nonsense since the Bush administration when the Koch brothers, et al., started to pay to make them believe it, the only solution is to eliminate the use of private money to acquire public power.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:24 PM on January 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
I assume have some kind of grift angle that goes beyond mere delusional thinking.
I think this is it in a nutshell. Right now it's incredibly profitable to spread disinformation, and it's going to keep happening for as long as it's legal to lie and make heaps of cash from it.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:35 PM on January 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think this is it in a nutshell. Right now it's incredibly profitable to spread disinformation, and it's going to keep happening for as long as it's legal to lie and make heaps of cash from it.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:35 PM on January 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Buying in to disinformation is like buying extra blankets for your blanket fort. Every adult knows a blanket fort is just some stuff thrown over some chairs. But some adults need insulation for their daily operating delusions, fears, bigotries, and anger. The bright light of freaking day, the wind in the trees, the real world turning, is too much for them. So, the sellers of blankets are getting rich, no matter if they are ratty, full of holes or second hand garbage, the sale is on.
posted by Oyéah at 2:12 PM on January 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 2:12 PM on January 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
I sometimes wonder how the 70 year old guy who rented our garage apartment in Tulsa reacted to the rise of QAnon. He was all in on chemtrails and black ops people listening to all the cell phones. A nice enough guy otherwise, actually, but never get him started on his pet theories.
I'd like to think that he'd not fall into the complete nonsense, because he always had rational (provably incorrect, but still rational) reasons behind his beliefs, but I fear that he did get sucked in to the entirely evidence-free disinformation of Q.
It's really weird to think back to how harmless, if a bit tiring to listen to, it all seemed. It's not like he was shouting at me for not being in agreement. In a way it makes me a bit sad that I didn't push back a bit harder, but instead focused on the little nuggets of truth that were behind those beliefs of his just to get along.
posted by wierdo at 6:44 PM on January 23, 2021
I'd like to think that he'd not fall into the complete nonsense, because he always had rational (provably incorrect, but still rational) reasons behind his beliefs, but I fear that he did get sucked in to the entirely evidence-free disinformation of Q.
It's really weird to think back to how harmless, if a bit tiring to listen to, it all seemed. It's not like he was shouting at me for not being in agreement. In a way it makes me a bit sad that I didn't push back a bit harder, but instead focused on the little nuggets of truth that were behind those beliefs of his just to get along.
posted by wierdo at 6:44 PM on January 23, 2021
A furnace repairman came to my place back when Covid was just starting. He was livid because viruses cannot live into the summer months and liberals were taking away his son's baseball from him. He was too angry to talk to, but (A) Have you ever known someone to get sick in the summer months? (B) How about fact checking that with the phone in your pocket?
A hallmark of conspiracy theories are that they're usually impossible to disprove, but I feel like today people aren't even taking a moment to think through what they're so angry about.
posted by xammerboy at 7:27 PM on January 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
A hallmark of conspiracy theories are that they're usually impossible to disprove, but I feel like today people aren't even taking a moment to think through what they're so angry about.
posted by xammerboy at 7:27 PM on January 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
Counting letters to the editor for one newspaper doesn't seem very scientific, to be honest. As has been pointed out repeatedly already, there are far more conspiracy theories being spread now due to internet platforms.
One solution I agree might be helpful is the idea of inoculation. Way back I used to listen to Art Bell am and watched lots of documentaries on Area 51, etc. Initially I was inclined to believe some of them, but over time as the claims got wilder, I realized it was just another product for consumers, another business, and where is the evidence. I am lucky as well to have a mind that wants facts rather than just speculation. Also very helpful would be educating people in basic critical thinking skills such as at least a list of common logical fallacies.
One big problem though is the anticonspiracy insistence that there is just simply no such thing as any actual conspiracy ever and you're nuts for even suggesting it. That closes the door to respect, communication, and understanding between the two sides. Some real conspiracies have existed and do exist. (I'm not by any means saying there is even a kernel of truth in Qanon or similar, or that anybody be indulged in them even a little. This is for arguing with people who haven't actually gone down the rabbit hole yet, but as Brian B. points out so well above, recognize that kind of absolutist thinking to also be wrong.) This is a blind spot that needs to be gotten over, even as most conspiracy theories are ludicrous.
It's almost like there's a conspiracy of conspiracies....
posted by blue shadows at 8:08 PM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
One solution I agree might be helpful is the idea of inoculation. Way back I used to listen to Art Bell am and watched lots of documentaries on Area 51, etc. Initially I was inclined to believe some of them, but over time as the claims got wilder, I realized it was just another product for consumers, another business, and where is the evidence. I am lucky as well to have a mind that wants facts rather than just speculation. Also very helpful would be educating people in basic critical thinking skills such as at least a list of common logical fallacies.
One big problem though is the anticonspiracy insistence that there is just simply no such thing as any actual conspiracy ever and you're nuts for even suggesting it. That closes the door to respect, communication, and understanding between the two sides. Some real conspiracies have existed and do exist. (I'm not by any means saying there is even a kernel of truth in Qanon or similar, or that anybody be indulged in them even a little. This is for arguing with people who haven't actually gone down the rabbit hole yet, but as Brian B. points out so well above, recognize that kind of absolutist thinking to also be wrong.) This is a blind spot that needs to be gotten over, even as most conspiracy theories are ludicrous.
It's almost like there's a conspiracy of conspiracies....
posted by blue shadows at 8:08 PM on January 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I always keep in mind there's a difference between conspiracy theories ( possible true ) and CRACKPOT conspiracy theories ( likely false ).
posted by mikelieman at 8:46 PM on January 23, 2021
posted by mikelieman at 8:46 PM on January 23, 2021
Right, there's maybe if you squint and there's batshit insane - or just another encounter with an increasing number of family members deep diving into Facebook and Google promoted almagams of the usual background paranoia, right wing hysteria, weaponized Qanon ideas, and covid denial. (A personal data point that also contradicts overall levels of conspiracy theories not having increased, never mind they are becoming far more rabid.)
posted by blue shadows at 9:09 PM on January 23, 2021
posted by blue shadows at 9:09 PM on January 23, 2021
Right now it's incredibly profitable to spread disinformation, and it's going to keep happening for as long as it's legal to lie and make heaps of cash from it.
Until we have a government and legal system that holds folks like Zuckerberg to account, there will be shareholders like him, and others, who will profit from these coup attempts. Americans were lucky this last coup barely failed. Maybe we'll be lucky enough to have the time needed to hold these profiteers responsible for their roles in this. Maybe not. Other countries were not so lucky and were overthrown. Hopefully, we learn from their example in time to save ourselves from the same fate.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:01 PM on January 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Until we have a government and legal system that holds folks like Zuckerberg to account, there will be shareholders like him, and others, who will profit from these coup attempts. Americans were lucky this last coup barely failed. Maybe we'll be lucky enough to have the time needed to hold these profiteers responsible for their roles in this. Maybe not. Other countries were not so lucky and were overthrown. Hopefully, we learn from their example in time to save ourselves from the same fate.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:01 PM on January 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Until we have a government and legal system that holds folks like Zuckerberg to account,
so isn't now the time to hold folks like that to account?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:32 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
so isn't now the time to hold folks like that to account?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:32 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Conspiracy theories were popular in pre-Civil War politics, too.
posted by lock robster at 1:42 AM on January 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
Smithsonian Mag: During the hotly contested 1828 campaign, Jackson’s opponents, too, trafficked in conspiracy theories: In particular, administration men accused Jackson’s supporters of plotting a coup d’état if their candidate lost to President Adams. This “theory” held that pro-Jackson congressmen, upset about the national government’s attempts to impose a new tariff on imports, held “secret meetings” to discuss “the dissolution of the Union.” One pro-Jackson supporter “declared that he should not be astonished to see Gen. Jackson, if not elected, placed in the Presidential Chair, at the point of fifty thousand bayonets!!!”Not that that's ominous about our current political situation or anything...
posted by lock robster at 1:42 AM on January 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
We know there really was at least one conspiracy to overthrow the government (leaving aside the Civil War since it was open rebellion from the beginning), but Smedley Butler wasn't having it. It happens sometimes, though it usually doesn't get so far as significant violence being done.
posted by wierdo at 4:09 AM on January 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 4:09 AM on January 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
I've been seeing near-unanimity on the left that the control of speech couldn't turn around and bite them.
You... you know that the Left has generally been in favor of deplatforming fascists for a solid century, right?
posted by eviemath at 7:08 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
You... you know that the Left has generally been in favor of deplatforming fascists for a solid century, right?
posted by eviemath at 7:08 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm pathetically grateful to see you say that. I've been seeing near-unanimity on the left that the control of speech couldn't turn around and bite them.
Yeah, this is a concern I have too. I don’t think that the big social media companies had a choice, but they also let this get out of hand, created a system that encouraged and profited off of our worse tendencies. But it also runs the risk of leading to something very ugly.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 7:11 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this is a concern I have too. I don’t think that the big social media companies had a choice, but they also let this get out of hand, created a system that encouraged and profited off of our worse tendencies. But it also runs the risk of leading to something very ugly.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 7:11 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
>Until we have a government and legal system that holds folks like Zuckerberg to account,
>so isn't now the time to hold folks like that to account?
As has been pointed out before, the quickest way to do that is to remove the liability exemption given to them by Section 230. Then the government doesn't have to censor them. They will moderate themselves just like they did for Donald Trump last week.
For 200 years, no other form of media had or required a Section 230 exemption to liability. There is no reason to give such an exemption to billionaires like Zuckerberg or Dorsey just because they think moderation will cost them billionaire profits.
posted by JackFlash at 7:33 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
>so isn't now the time to hold folks like that to account?
As has been pointed out before, the quickest way to do that is to remove the liability exemption given to them by Section 230. Then the government doesn't have to censor them. They will moderate themselves just like they did for Donald Trump last week.
For 200 years, no other form of media had or required a Section 230 exemption to liability. There is no reason to give such an exemption to billionaires like Zuckerberg or Dorsey just because they think moderation will cost them billionaire profits.
posted by JackFlash at 7:33 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
For 200 years, no other form of media had or required a Section 230 exemption to liability
That's not quite true. Bookstores have a similar liability regime: they're not actually liable for every word printed in every book they sell. So if someone buries defamation on page 203 of a book that happens to be sold in a hundred bookstores, the defamed party can't sue all of those bookstores for defamation, they have to go after the actual author.
I'm not sure how making Twitter liable for Trump's tweets does anything. If Trump had significant civil liability for his tweets, someone would have managed to make a suit stick by now (he wasn't immune from civil suits before he became President, and he wasn't immune while in office).
posted by BungaDunga at 7:51 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
That's not quite true. Bookstores have a similar liability regime: they're not actually liable for every word printed in every book they sell. So if someone buries defamation on page 203 of a book that happens to be sold in a hundred bookstores, the defamed party can't sue all of those bookstores for defamation, they have to go after the actual author.
I'm not sure how making Twitter liable for Trump's tweets does anything. If Trump had significant civil liability for his tweets, someone would have managed to make a suit stick by now (he wasn't immune from civil suits before he became President, and he wasn't immune while in office).
posted by BungaDunga at 7:51 AM on January 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ah, yes, another one of those misleading claims from those cranky speech absolutist web sites.
You absolutely can get a court order to have defamatory books removed from bookstores. But you can't from Facebook or Twitter because of an unprecedented and unique liability exemption.
posted by JackFlash at 8:08 AM on January 24, 2021
You absolutely can get a court order to have defamatory books removed from bookstores. But you can't from Facebook or Twitter because of an unprecedented and unique liability exemption.
posted by JackFlash at 8:08 AM on January 24, 2021
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posted by double bubble at 6:55 AM on January 23, 2021 [8 favorites]