Why make yourself uncomfortable when you can be in a comfortable place?
October 5, 2022 12:07 AM Subscribe
NPR is not our friend. Let’s take a closer look at why this is. “… like much other media, NPR has become a partisan news service with a sterile, professional tone that belies an underlying allegiance to a very narrow range of political viewpoints that are largely inoffensive to those in power. Today, NPR is a product stuffed with advertisements. It receives relatively little in government funding and is mostly paid for by corporations and a small percentage of its listeners who come from a very specific demographic: white, well-educated liberals.“
largely inoffensive to those in power
qft
posted by chavenet at 1:05 AM on October 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
qft
posted by chavenet at 1:05 AM on October 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
This is an excellent, excellent piece. NPR is truly dangerous. All the more so by being dressed in the placid, soothing, dulcet tones of the voice of reason and the putative adult in the room.
posted by Gadarene at 3:00 AM on October 5, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by Gadarene at 3:00 AM on October 5, 2022 [19 favorites]
...I really wish the article hadn't quoted Matt Taibbi, however.
posted by Gadarene at 3:05 AM on October 5, 2022 [36 favorites]
posted by Gadarene at 3:05 AM on October 5, 2022 [36 favorites]
When NPR reports on a strike, it starts with how the public will be affected, and then gets to the issues behind the strike.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 3:23 AM on October 5, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 3:23 AM on October 5, 2022 [15 favorites]
This is not exactly a hot-take; I had to quit listening to NPR news at least five years ago due to their penchant for normalizing Republican talking points.
posted by octothorpe at 3:40 AM on October 5, 2022 [81 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 3:40 AM on October 5, 2022 [81 favorites]
NPR has been a joke for many, many years.
I remember a segment a while back when they had an ambassador on discussing a matter of some importance and Steve Inskeep cut him off rather rudely because "that's all we have time for"... all so that they could segue into some unpaid marketeering for Apple with a bit on the latest iPhone.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:41 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I remember a segment a while back when they had an ambassador on discussing a matter of some importance and Steve Inskeep cut him off rather rudely because "that's all we have time for"... all so that they could segue into some unpaid marketeering for Apple with a bit on the latest iPhone.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:41 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I had to quit listening to NPR news at least five years ago due to their penchant for normalizing Republican talking points
I had the exact same experience. I nearly drove my car in to the ocean a couple of times and finally had to throw in the towel.
posted by saladin at 3:58 AM on October 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
I had the exact same experience. I nearly drove my car in to the ocean a couple of times and finally had to throw in the towel.
posted by saladin at 3:58 AM on October 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
...I really wish the article hadn't quoted Matt Taibbi, however.
There were a passing shout outs to fucking Greyzone and Mint Press too, but I guess that’s a good example of getting the discomfort that the space needs or something.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 4:03 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
There were a passing shout outs to fucking Greyzone and Mint Press too, but I guess that’s a good example of getting the discomfort that the space needs or something.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 4:03 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
There were a passing shout outs to fucking Greyzone and Mint Press too, but I guess that’s a good example of getting the discomfort that the space needs or something.
Yeah, the more I think about the article itself, the more I take back my characterization of "truly, truly excellent." It's sort of crappy.
I do wish more people recognized how pernicious NPR is, though. I have too many friends who have been anesthetized by its worldview.
posted by Gadarene at 4:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
Yeah, the more I think about the article itself, the more I take back my characterization of "truly, truly excellent." It's sort of crappy.
I do wish more people recognized how pernicious NPR is, though. I have too many friends who have been anesthetized by its worldview.
posted by Gadarene at 4:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
There were a passing shout outs to fucking Greyzone and Mint Press too, but I guess that’s a good example of getting the discomfort that the space needs or something.
I'd never heard of either, looked at them just now and yuck. Greyzone is 100% Russian tankie propaganda and Mint is just nuts.
posted by octothorpe at 4:18 AM on October 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
I'd never heard of either, looked at them just now and yuck. Greyzone is 100% Russian tankie propaganda and Mint is just nuts.
posted by octothorpe at 4:18 AM on October 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
It doesn’t seem particularly surprising to “discover” that mainstream media is mainstream (ie largely status quo). This seems more an evolutionary process than anything… “two radio programs in the top 5” if said of any media outlet would guarantee, yes, that you’re catering to society and thus channeling/perpetuating the status quo. Cause and effect reversed, government/mainstream society funded media fomenting a perpetual revolution seems it would naturally at some point reach it’s evolutionary cul-de-sac.
I’m certain Ad Fontes media bias chart has been on the blue before. And yes it too, by defining a center line established under the moral relativism of what cultures value, perpetuates a normative status quo. But consulting it I reach the conclusion that to put NPR, CNN, Fox, The Beast, and Infowars on the same line without context sure moves this into useful commentary-cum-click baity territory and hand wringing territory ( Greyzone and The Mint!?). “Science” (as a practice) too perpetuates bias not just in what it’s practitioners select as topics worthy of study, but chasing after that golden calf of “reality.” “Objective” is a subjective normative value. I think we could nitpick all the way down, but we’d unsurprisingly arrive at the conclusion that the majority have on average majority beliefs. The majority find media that largely perpetuates its beliefs, maybe incrementally expands their minds, and largely doesn’t bludgeon them with “you’re dumb” and should change your thinking.
However… The Onion.
posted by rubatan at 4:24 AM on October 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
I’m certain Ad Fontes media bias chart has been on the blue before. And yes it too, by defining a center line established under the moral relativism of what cultures value, perpetuates a normative status quo. But consulting it I reach the conclusion that to put NPR, CNN, Fox, The Beast, and Infowars on the same line without context sure moves this into useful commentary-cum-click baity territory and hand wringing territory ( Greyzone and The Mint!?). “Science” (as a practice) too perpetuates bias not just in what it’s practitioners select as topics worthy of study, but chasing after that golden calf of “reality.” “Objective” is a subjective normative value. I think we could nitpick all the way down, but we’d unsurprisingly arrive at the conclusion that the majority have on average majority beliefs. The majority find media that largely perpetuates its beliefs, maybe incrementally expands their minds, and largely doesn’t bludgeon them with “you’re dumb” and should change your thinking.
However… The Onion.
posted by rubatan at 4:24 AM on October 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
"I had the exact same experience. I nearly drove my car in to the ocean a couple of times and finally had to throw in the towel."
Losing a towel is a lot cheaper than losing a care.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:25 AM on October 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Losing a towel is a lot cheaper than losing a care.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:25 AM on October 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
This has been true since reporting on the 2nd Gulf War and i can only imagine has worsened over the years. I gave up completely when I hear yet another tepid analysis of Republican fascism during the early 45the prez years.
posted by kokaku at 4:39 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 4:39 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yes, I gave up on NPR during 2016. The false equivalency had always been there, but when it became just openly treating lies as truth and blithely welcoming self-avowed fascists to the airwaves I couldn't stomach it anymore. I was shouting at the radio more than listening.
posted by rikschell at 4:49 AM on October 5, 2022 [29 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 4:49 AM on October 5, 2022 [29 favorites]
This is not exactly a hot-take; I had to quit listening to NPR news at least five years ago due to their penchant for normalizing Republican talking points.
20 years, for me, for the same reason.
posted by Gelatin at 4:49 AM on October 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
20 years, for me, for the same reason.
posted by Gelatin at 4:49 AM on October 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
(And yeah, NPR's credulousness to Republican talking points in the leadup to the second Gulf War was a big reason. They were also big on shrugging and accepting SCOTUS handing the election to George W. Bush, with Nina Totenberg leading that particular charge.)
posted by Gelatin at 4:52 AM on October 5, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 4:52 AM on October 5, 2022 [22 favorites]
I'd never heard of either, looked at them just now and yuck. Greyzone is 100% Russian tankie propaganda and Mint is just nuts.
And NPR is the mouthpiece for the military-industrial complex. Along with the rest of the media establishment.
posted by drstrangelove at 4:55 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
And NPR is the mouthpiece for the military-industrial complex. Along with the rest of the media establishment.
posted by drstrangelove at 4:55 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's frustrating that virtually no media outlet has a nuanced view on the war in Ukraine which to me would include the reality that NATO did advance towards Russia's borders despite assurances in the 90s that it would not do so while also stating, in no uncertain terms, that it's still wrong and immoral to invade another country as Russia did.
posted by drstrangelove at 5:00 AM on October 5, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by drstrangelove at 5:00 AM on October 5, 2022 [15 favorites]
...I really wish the article hadn't quoted Matt Taibbi, however.
Or Ralph Nader, for that matter, who lost all credibility in 2000. I have my own complaints about NPR--I still remember with some astonishment the time that they had a GOP politician on who did almost nothing else with his time except criticize NPR itself--but what's the real alternative? Trying to revive Air America again?
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:04 AM on October 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
Or Ralph Nader, for that matter, who lost all credibility in 2000. I have my own complaints about NPR--I still remember with some astonishment the time that they had a GOP politician on who did almost nothing else with his time except criticize NPR itself--but what's the real alternative? Trying to revive Air America again?
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:04 AM on October 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
There's a bit of a chicken and egg problem with the demographics. Saying that NPR is biased because it appeals to well-educated white people is silly, because that's also a strong predictor of who is a liberal in this country.
What's far more pernicious is the don't-rock-the-boat corporatism and the uncritical broadcast of lies from right-wingers happy to game the system.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:15 AM on October 5, 2022 [28 favorites]
What's far more pernicious is the don't-rock-the-boat corporatism and the uncritical broadcast of lies from right-wingers happy to game the system.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:15 AM on October 5, 2022 [28 favorites]
Uh, speaking of problematic media outlets, remember when Nathan J Robinson fired all the Current Affairs staff for trying to start a co-op?
posted by derrinyet at 5:24 AM on October 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by derrinyet at 5:24 AM on October 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
I give to Nashville NPR as the left-most thing on the dial here (my other options are right-wing talk radio or corporate music stations or the one indie station which is also mostly music) to help pay for their local reporting and under the impression that the more they are listener-supported the less they need from corporations. They've done some excellent reporting on local issues e.g. when the state Republicans were trying to force Nashville to host the 2024 RNC convention they specifically reported on the threats the state was making to the city if we didn't comply. So I value their local coverage. But of course they're also mostly useless pro-corporate mainstream media. I'm always surprised when Americans characterize NPR as leftwing because they're transparently not. Was there a time when they were?
posted by joannemerriam at 5:59 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by joannemerriam at 5:59 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
Trying to revive Air America again?
You're making me nostalgic! That was my only foray into listening to AM radio. I felt like I was part of something bigger listening to it.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 6:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
You're making me nostalgic! That was my only foray into listening to AM radio. I felt like I was part of something bigger listening to it.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 6:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I also gave it up in 2016 and I’m feeling validated by this article and thread, thank you.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 6:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by jeweled accumulation at 6:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I don't exactly want to praise NPR, which is often pretty mediocre, but I feel like a lot of the people who criticize NPR (and PBS, for that matter) want it to be something that it was never designed to be.
posted by box at 6:03 AM on October 5, 2022 [51 favorites]
posted by box at 6:03 AM on October 5, 2022 [51 favorites]
I'm always surprised when Americans characterize NPR as leftwing because they're transparently not. Was there a time when they were?
Republican criticism of the "liberal media" was never made in good faith. The media simply reported facts that were inconvenient to Republicans and made them look bad -- Watergate, for example, going back to NPR's early days.
The decades-long effort of Republicans to work the refs with their bad faith complaints seems to have been particularly effective on NPR. NPR is well aware its audience is relatively liberal, but makes a point of presenting a "balanced" viewpoint, which means politely ignoring more bad faith Republican talking points (see Brooks, David).
posted by Gelatin at 6:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
Republican criticism of the "liberal media" was never made in good faith. The media simply reported facts that were inconvenient to Republicans and made them look bad -- Watergate, for example, going back to NPR's early days.
The decades-long effort of Republicans to work the refs with their bad faith complaints seems to have been particularly effective on NPR. NPR is well aware its audience is relatively liberal, but makes a point of presenting a "balanced" viewpoint, which means politely ignoring more bad faith Republican talking points (see Brooks, David).
posted by Gelatin at 6:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
Are we not talking about Democracy Now anymore? Because I think it's still consistently pretty good.
posted by eustatic at 6:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 6:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
ahh we’re going through this again. National Petroleum Radio we called it in the oughts because of how sympathetic it was to the iraq war’s boosters (and it still will have those ghouls on the air as if they shouldn’t be shunned from society). NPR to me is liberalism full stop. It’s the Hilary Clinton of radio. I’ll listen to it but only because the alternative is a guy in promoting a literal death cult (and gold, buy gold!)
posted by dis_integration at 6:21 AM on October 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:21 AM on October 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
Trying to revive Air America again?
Most of that crew is on Free Speech TV now
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 6:27 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Most of that crew is on Free Speech TV now
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 6:27 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Nice, Polite Republicans
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:30 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:30 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Nice, Polite Republicans
And yet they'll broadcast audio, without comment or condemnation, of Republicans using "Democrat" as a slur (as in "Democrat politicians," which for some reason right wingers decided as an insult certain to Own the Libs), or someone like Mitch McConnell never failing to use the phrase "job-killing" before "legislation" or "regulation." So they normalize Republican propaganda under the pretense of neutrality.
They could, of course, simply refuse to broadcast such audio, but they don't, and Republicans take advantage of it even as they assure their constituents that NPR is liberal and the negative things they report about Republicans are not to be trusted.
posted by Gelatin at 6:35 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
And yet they'll broadcast audio, without comment or condemnation, of Republicans using "Democrat" as a slur (as in "Democrat politicians," which for some reason right wingers decided as an insult certain to Own the Libs), or someone like Mitch McConnell never failing to use the phrase "job-killing" before "legislation" or "regulation." So they normalize Republican propaganda under the pretense of neutrality.
They could, of course, simply refuse to broadcast such audio, but they don't, and Republicans take advantage of it even as they assure their constituents that NPR is liberal and the negative things they report about Republicans are not to be trusted.
posted by Gelatin at 6:35 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I so agree with this piece. The downfall of NPR is one of the things about public broadcasting that has made me very sad because it once was an awesome news service.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:46 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 6:46 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I stopped listening to NPR years ago. It drove me nuts that they carefully spent as much time on the "global warming is crazy talk" people as they did on the "global warming is a serious problem" people.
posted by jabah at 6:56 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by jabah at 6:56 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Stone me as a blasphemer but the actual Npr.org site seems to have less of the ills that infest the actual broadcast. Then again, if I am listening to the radio it is anything BUT news.
posted by Ber at 6:56 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 6:56 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Good lord this is not a hot take. I stopped listening to NPR 20+ yrs ago. Same with the Atlantic Monthly, there was a time when both were a balance between hard news well digested and interesting coverage of the arts and letters. At some point, with NPR especially, it became all conflicts all the time. Northern Ireland for a good chunk, and then Israel Palestine, and that shift slowly morphed into the both-sides-ism that drives their reportage today. I'll stop by every once in a great while, but always quickly nope out of their brand of "news".
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
Agree with the article but I will fight anyone who tries to take the game shows away from me.
posted by lyssabee at 7:51 AM on October 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by lyssabee at 7:51 AM on October 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
NPR sucks, as does Nathan J. Robinson and his publication Current Affairs—not to mention his sartorial affectations, which mark him out as a self-satisfied boob.
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 7:55 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 7:55 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Add me to the list of those who stopped listening in 2016. Even when I do listen, and these days it’s only to the BBC World Service, the sheer number of ads is enough to make it turn it back off.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 8:10 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 8:10 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I will fight anyone who tries to take the game shows away from me.
Same, but with On the Media (and Ozark Highlands Radio, and a few other niche-topic shows--I like NPR better when I think of them as a prestige podcast producer (that, like most in this area, sometimes has a bit of a house voice) with a couple broad-appeal, medium-quality tentpole news shows that pay the bills).
posted by box at 8:11 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Same, but with On the Media (and Ozark Highlands Radio, and a few other niche-topic shows--I like NPR better when I think of them as a prestige podcast producer (that, like most in this area, sometimes has a bit of a house voice) with a couple broad-appeal, medium-quality tentpole news shows that pay the bills).
posted by box at 8:11 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
On the Media very much isn't NPR.
posted by octothorpe at 8:20 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 8:20 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
NPR News productions, especially their signature "drivetime" shows Morning Edition and All Thing Considered, are pretty worthy of criticism from a lot of angles. As others have pointed out, however, public radio is still pretty great, and there are many excellent shows on NPR affiliated public radio stations.
posted by 3j0hn at 8:26 AM on October 5, 2022 [38 favorites]
posted by 3j0hn at 8:26 AM on October 5, 2022 [38 favorites]
On the Media very much isn't NPR.
It isn't? Sorry about that--they play it on my local NPR station.
I mostly listen to these shows in a podcast app, and some of the intricacies of who's NPR, or PRX, or APM, or ETC are probably lost on me.
posted by box at 8:45 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
It isn't? Sorry about that--they play it on my local NPR station.
I mostly listen to these shows in a podcast app, and some of the intricacies of who's NPR, or PRX, or APM, or ETC are probably lost on me.
posted by box at 8:45 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I listen to little or no NPR (or talk anything, for that matter) but their online news site is the first place I visit every morning. I prefer the lightweight text version in the terminal...
posted by jim in austin at 8:45 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 8:45 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I recall that even 45 years ago, when I listened to the Houghton MI NPR outlet from across Lake Superior, that NPR was warm and fuzzy like a handmade knitted afghan, in a gently liberal/progressive way. (obligatory nod to the SNL public radio spoof Schweddy Balls)
> Feels a tad hopeless finding a venue which consistently shares my core values.
So you're wishing for an echo chamber? So did the right, and we've all seen where that led.
Interesting article from BBC's Katty Kay which highlights the current degree of polarization in the US. Another biased news outlet won't fix this. At some point Americans gotta reach out towards each other and get past this.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:49 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
> Feels a tad hopeless finding a venue which consistently shares my core values.
So you're wishing for an echo chamber? So did the right, and we've all seen where that led.
Interesting article from BBC's Katty Kay which highlights the current degree of polarization in the US. Another biased news outlet won't fix this. At some point Americans gotta reach out towards each other and get past this.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:49 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I finally read TFA, and I agree in broad strokes, but wtf is this lol bs near the top:
posted by 3j0hn at 8:54 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
In a world full of overtly partisan outlets such as CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, The Atlantic, Infowars, The Daily WireCNN is partisan? Really? I guess I appreciate this, since I know to take everything else with a large grain of salt.
posted by 3j0hn at 8:54 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
Another biased news outlet won't fix this.
The problem with NPR is not that it's biased, but that it works hard to normalize Republican bad behavior in order to present a false appearance of being unbiased. In doing so, of course, it's biased toward the Republicans.
No one's asking for NPR to be biased, but for it to abandon the phony method of "balance" for objectivity (for example, to stop presenting objective facts about Republican policies under the veneer "critics say"), even if it makes Republicans look bad.
posted by Gelatin at 8:56 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
The problem with NPR is not that it's biased, but that it works hard to normalize Republican bad behavior in order to present a false appearance of being unbiased. In doing so, of course, it's biased toward the Republicans.
No one's asking for NPR to be biased, but for it to abandon the phony method of "balance" for objectivity (for example, to stop presenting objective facts about Republican policies under the veneer "critics say"), even if it makes Republicans look bad.
posted by Gelatin at 8:56 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
My general complaint about NPR is that when they have someone on, who is spouting complete bullshit, the NPR person just seems to nod their head, and never, ever question that person in regards to them just spouting bullshit. I’ve found that the BBC show Hard Talk, a really early morning thing, features a couple of interviewers that don’t put up with bullshit. Being a longtime reluctant listener of NPR I was kind of shocked to hear people get nailed in an interview.
The local NPR station here in San Francisco, just had their pledge thing. From the sound of their whining, extended another week, it appears that the donor pool has begun to dry up. Not surprising given the continuing spiral into mediocrity.
posted by njohnson23 at 8:56 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
The local NPR station here in San Francisco, just had their pledge thing. From the sound of their whining, extended another week, it appears that the donor pool has begun to dry up. Not surprising given the continuing spiral into mediocrity.
posted by njohnson23 at 8:56 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
We can discuss to what extent CNN, MSNBC, the Atlantic, etc., have a point of view and whether or to what extent that point of view is consistently liberal, but it's a category error to call them partisan.
Fox News is partisan. It tailors its news to benefit the Republican Party; CNN (and certainly not NPR) do not do the same toward the Democrats. (See, for example, how CNN and NPR both act as if Republican criticism of things like Obama's tan suit is legitimate.)
posted by Gelatin at 9:00 AM on October 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
Fox News is partisan. It tailors its news to benefit the Republican Party; CNN (and certainly not NPR) do not do the same toward the Democrats. (See, for example, how CNN and NPR both act as if Republican criticism of things like Obama's tan suit is legitimate.)
posted by Gelatin at 9:00 AM on October 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
Yes, I should clarify that I quit listening in 2016 when they worked really hard to normalize the last president. I’m not looking for “leftist bias” just, like, reality consensus.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by jeweled accumulation at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
On the Media very much isn't NPR.NPR is a national radio production organization that produces programming. Your "NPR station" is an independent organization that pays NPR to broadcast their shows. On The Media is produced by WNYC one of those large independent stations, and not by NPR itself. There are a lot of other "NPR" shows that are not produced by NPR but by local stations or American Public Media or smaller organizations.
It isn't? Sorry about that--they play it on my local NPR station.
However, it is unclear to me how much these shows get bundled or whatever. I've never heard Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me (produced by WBEZ and distributed by PRX) on a public radio station with Pacifica News, e.g.
posted by 3j0hn at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I listen to the national/local news recaps in the morning on the NPR One app while I lie in bed trying to convince myself to get up, mostly because it is the most convenient way to get my daily "here is what is going on in the world" I've found.
But I had to stop listening altogether in the TFG era. He'd tweet out some insane bullshit overnight and NPR would GO OUT OF ITS WAY to make it sound like a normal presidential statement by "translating" it. Like I get it, you feel you have to report on it, but just read out the damn tweet and put some context in there.
posted by Preserver at 9:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
But I had to stop listening altogether in the TFG era. He'd tweet out some insane bullshit overnight and NPR would GO OUT OF ITS WAY to make it sound like a normal presidential statement by "translating" it. Like I get it, you feel you have to report on it, but just read out the damn tweet and put some context in there.
posted by Preserver at 9:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
There are a lot of other "NPR" shows that are not produced by NPR but by local stations or American Public Media or smaller organizations.
Right, but the average layperson and listener will hear these "NPR" shows if they have their dial set to an NPR station. It feels like nitpicking to "well, actually" something that NPR clearly endorses and facilitates access to.
posted by knotty knots at 9:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Right, but the average layperson and listener will hear these "NPR" shows if they have their dial set to an NPR station. It feels like nitpicking to "well, actually" something that NPR clearly endorses and facilitates access to.
posted by knotty knots at 9:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
On the Media and (in the NYC region) the Brian Lehrer Show are what NPR as a whole should strive to be. Engaged, analytical, diving the next two or three layers deep in questions you wished had been answered the first time a headline was shared. Self-aware and conspicuously willing to engage in self-improvement.
NPR as a news organization has been frustratingly both-sidesy, but I have to credit them in the last several years. Seem to have earned dispensation to call. Absolute fucking lies. Absolute fucking lies and I have seen considerably less boosterism for military and entrenched media interests.
I don't really know how to solve the overall issue but I would be intrigued to hear where those of you who so aggressively reject NPR get your daily news.
The point above about certain outlets having what seem to be reasonable takes on one topic mixed with completely unsupportable takes on another is what keeps me coming back to the outlet that has not so subtly encoded centrist tendencies where I can consciously explore further when needed.
In short, I'd prefer to be annoyed at an uninterrupted talking point with the occasional satisfaction of hearing an otherwise highly moderate interviewer skewer a conservative yammering head after they have dug themselves deep uninterrupted - it's happening more often but not often enough - than have to distrust every story on its face.
Because so far whether it's Jacobin or Truthout or whatever I have to invest more cognitive load in what they're omitting or cheering about than I think is worthwhile in a news source.
Of course, depending on how much you believe someone like Media Bias Fact Check, current ratings for a "Left leaning, high credibility, high factuality" source:
No results.
posted by abulafa at 9:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
NPR as a news organization has been frustratingly both-sidesy, but I have to credit them in the last several years. Seem to have earned dispensation to call. Absolute fucking lies. Absolute fucking lies and I have seen considerably less boosterism for military and entrenched media interests.
I don't really know how to solve the overall issue but I would be intrigued to hear where those of you who so aggressively reject NPR get your daily news.
The point above about certain outlets having what seem to be reasonable takes on one topic mixed with completely unsupportable takes on another is what keeps me coming back to the outlet that has not so subtly encoded centrist tendencies where I can consciously explore further when needed.
In short, I'd prefer to be annoyed at an uninterrupted talking point with the occasional satisfaction of hearing an otherwise highly moderate interviewer skewer a conservative yammering head after they have dug themselves deep uninterrupted - it's happening more often but not often enough - than have to distrust every story on its face.
Because so far whether it's Jacobin or Truthout or whatever I have to invest more cognitive load in what they're omitting or cheering about than I think is worthwhile in a news source.
Of course, depending on how much you believe someone like Media Bias Fact Check, current ratings for a "Left leaning, high credibility, high factuality" source:
No results.
posted by abulafa at 9:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
A major worry in the piece is that they debate a standard philosophical topic with too much convenience. Objectivity in a reporting sense is to be neutral, more or less, which is precisely what some people are saying is ethically wrong, while also suggesting it is not possible at the same time. A journalist is quoted saying that they can't be objective, but they can be fair, as though the day is saved. But fairness is not really possible if one dismisses objectivity because it is measured, and it is probably dangerous to replace objectivity with fairness because one is pandering at that point. If a report carries the assumption that something should be good for humans generally, then fine, but not their mobilized interests. The words are probably to blame here, with expectations too high in a pure sense. Nobody needs to try to be objective as though they need a numbing mindset, but they need to dissociate themselves from cultural, religious or traditional biases, which then distances itself from any government or corporate influence who cater to those tastes.
posted by Brian B. at 9:10 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Brian B. at 9:10 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, when Steve Inskeep was reporting on Michael Brown's killing in Ferguson, and referred to him as a "thug", that was the end of my listening to NPR...
posted by Windopaene at 9:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 9:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Are we not talking about Democracy Now anymore? Because I think it's still consistently pretty good.
I suppose I should give it a listen again, but back when I did, I found it to be pretty solidly and unapologetically left-leaning. That fine, I watch Jimmy Kimmel too, but that's not what I'm looking for in a news source.
posted by beagle at 9:14 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I suppose I should give it a listen again, but back when I did, I found it to be pretty solidly and unapologetically left-leaning. That fine, I watch Jimmy Kimmel too, but that's not what I'm looking for in a news source.
posted by beagle at 9:14 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
NPR's national political correspondent also works for Fox News.
posted by jamjam at 9:19 AM on October 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 9:19 AM on October 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
MetaFilter: the continuing spiral into mediocrity.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:36 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:36 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
* gently furrows brow at worrisome innuendo *
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:43 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:43 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm less annoyed by NPR news in recent years, not because it sucks less but because I rarely listen. It's got all the same problems as the NYT, but without producing even a fraction of the important original reporting (and that includes their ProPublica partnerships.)
A typical Vox podcast will give you the same educated, center-left consensus perspective but more in depth and without the performative both-siderism.
My general complaint about NPR is that when they have someone on, who is spouting complete bullshit, the NPR person just seems to nod their head, and never, ever question that person in regards to them just spouting bullshit
This has long been a general problem with American journalism, and it is now openly exploited by the right. Journalism as a profession has not adapted to an environment where people will tell bald faced lies with impunity. NPR is perhaps among the worst. Among many other observers, I like Dan Froomkin and Jay Rosen on these problems.
NPR sucks, as does Nathan J. Robinson and his publication Current Affairs
My enthusiasm at reading an NPR takedown this morning was definitely lessened when I saw who had published it. I even paused: Would the joy from watching NPR get kicked around a bit going to outweigh my inevitable frustration at sophomoric rhetorical ploys?
Yes. Yes it would. I actually thought this was OK, if weakened by embracing just about every angle. For me the most important parts are the fallout from the professionalization of journalism and the elite, credentialed mildly liberal NPR staff, with a top quintile worldview that thinks it's at the left edge of the Overton window.
posted by mark k at 9:45 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
A typical Vox podcast will give you the same educated, center-left consensus perspective but more in depth and without the performative both-siderism.
My general complaint about NPR is that when they have someone on, who is spouting complete bullshit, the NPR person just seems to nod their head, and never, ever question that person in regards to them just spouting bullshit
This has long been a general problem with American journalism, and it is now openly exploited by the right. Journalism as a profession has not adapted to an environment where people will tell bald faced lies with impunity. NPR is perhaps among the worst. Among many other observers, I like Dan Froomkin and Jay Rosen on these problems.
NPR sucks, as does Nathan J. Robinson and his publication Current Affairs
My enthusiasm at reading an NPR takedown this morning was definitely lessened when I saw who had published it. I even paused: Would the joy from watching NPR get kicked around a bit going to outweigh my inevitable frustration at sophomoric rhetorical ploys?
Yes. Yes it would. I actually thought this was OK, if weakened by embracing just about every angle. For me the most important parts are the fallout from the professionalization of journalism and the elite, credentialed mildly liberal NPR staff, with a top quintile worldview that thinks it's at the left edge of the Overton window.
posted by mark k at 9:45 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
To the "this is not a hot take" folks: You're right, it isn't, but it still needs to be said again, and repeated for the folks in the back. Not everything needs to be a hot take; nor should it.
Anyway, yes, I too finally got sufficiently pissed off at NPR in 2016 to quit listening to it. I remember when they had Jerry Falwell Jr. on in the lead-up to Trump's election, and they tossed him softball after softball with zero push-back or questioning of any of his answers. This was all too typical of how they give extremist Republicans a platform to make themselves sound normal and unobjectionable.
I wrote to the ombudsman about this, and his reply was about as superficial as you'd expect: "We have listeners in Red states too, you know!"
posted by mikeand1 at 9:52 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Anyway, yes, I too finally got sufficiently pissed off at NPR in 2016 to quit listening to it. I remember when they had Jerry Falwell Jr. on in the lead-up to Trump's election, and they tossed him softball after softball with zero push-back or questioning of any of his answers. This was all too typical of how they give extremist Republicans a platform to make themselves sound normal and unobjectionable.
I wrote to the ombudsman about this, and his reply was about as superficial as you'd expect: "We have listeners in Red states too, you know!"
posted by mikeand1 at 9:52 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I’m not thrilled with NPR either, but have yet to find a great alternative. I live in the Boston area so have access to WBUR and WGBH, and I basically switch between the two to find something worth listening to and/or is locally produced. I do find myself going “Is this guest speaker the same guy who said the earth is flat last week? Or was it that racist comment I’m thinking of?” and filtering from there. And wondering why they keep giving these types airtime to be “balanced.”
One solution is moving the headquarters out of downtown Washington, D.C. They are creatures of the Metro DC world which is completely removed from reality on every level. F-B is your major supporter? Doesn’t raise my confidence levels.
I’ll track down some of the podcasts mentioned upstream.
posted by Farce_First at 9:53 AM on October 5, 2022
One solution is moving the headquarters out of downtown Washington, D.C. They are creatures of the Metro DC world which is completely removed from reality on every level. F-B is your major supporter? Doesn’t raise my confidence levels.
I’ll track down some of the podcasts mentioned upstream.
posted by Farce_First at 9:53 AM on October 5, 2022
I don't exactly want to praise NPR, which is often pretty mediocre, but I feel like a lot of the people who criticize NPR (and PBS, for that matter) want it to be something that it was never designed to be
This was largely my take on this piece. There seems to be a desire for NPR to be a publicly funded advocacy organization promoting ultra-progressive, far left views, which seems just as skewed as what this article complains about, it just happens that the writer seems to believe his views are objectively correct.
posted by The Gooch at 10:07 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
This was largely my take on this piece. There seems to be a desire for NPR to be a publicly funded advocacy organization promoting ultra-progressive, far left views, which seems just as skewed as what this article complains about, it just happens that the writer seems to believe his views are objectively correct.
posted by The Gooch at 10:07 AM on October 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
I don't really know how to solve the overall issue but I would be intrigued to hear where those of you who so aggressively reject NPR get your daily news.
As the poster, a former journalist, a left-winger, and someone who once did community activism around media literacy, I'll just say that I posted this article because I think it is broadly true, and that NPR is still part of my media diet. My clock radio is set to it, and part of the morning routine is just lying there in the dark at 6:00 a.m. thinking "well, I guess I know where the liberals are on this." But I've also got the New York Times, Jacobin, and a collection of newsletters and podcasts that range from right of center all the way over to the Trotskyist left; plus my local metro and a few indy weeklies. reddit and Twitter round it all out less as "news sources" and more as sources of entropy.
To me, media literacy isn't about choosing the severity and narrowness of your filters. Media literacy is about understanding the context each source operates in, where its biases lie, why those biases are there, and how we can use a collection of sources to effectively checksum each other, cross-check for blind spots, and hopefully broaden our perspective a little more each day, no matter how incrementally.
posted by mph at 10:10 AM on October 5, 2022 [33 favorites]
As the poster, a former journalist, a left-winger, and someone who once did community activism around media literacy, I'll just say that I posted this article because I think it is broadly true, and that NPR is still part of my media diet. My clock radio is set to it, and part of the morning routine is just lying there in the dark at 6:00 a.m. thinking "well, I guess I know where the liberals are on this." But I've also got the New York Times, Jacobin, and a collection of newsletters and podcasts that range from right of center all the way over to the Trotskyist left; plus my local metro and a few indy weeklies. reddit and Twitter round it all out less as "news sources" and more as sources of entropy.
To me, media literacy isn't about choosing the severity and narrowness of your filters. Media literacy is about understanding the context each source operates in, where its biases lie, why those biases are there, and how we can use a collection of sources to effectively checksum each other, cross-check for blind spots, and hopefully broaden our perspective a little more each day, no matter how incrementally.
posted by mph at 10:10 AM on October 5, 2022 [33 favorites]
I confess I skimmed but this is quite in depth and thoughtful. I'm naturally inclined to agree without reading I guess (In my day we called it National Pentagon Radio), but I feel they do a nice job providing evidence.
This quote is a nice summary, "What NPR describes as their standard tone of cordiality, Nader more accurately describes as “commercialism and amiable stupefaction.” The polite, upper-crust tone, representing, in fact, a narrow worldview, conveniently tends to serve institutionalized power.4"
The section on What NPR Could Be is achievable and specific: Advocate harder for funding from Congress (to reduce reliance on corporate 'donors', spend more time on underreported stories (fill a niche that commercial radio will not!), less celebs - more local stories, name root causes.
They also spend time on the issue of hiring elites as their reporting staff. I think NPR is sort of working on this is their podcasting 'products', and some of those voices end up making it on All Things Considered or Morning Edition, but they should strengthen that on ramp for non elites to report, edit and produce the big shows.
posted by latkes at 10:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
This quote is a nice summary, "What NPR describes as their standard tone of cordiality, Nader more accurately describes as “commercialism and amiable stupefaction.” The polite, upper-crust tone, representing, in fact, a narrow worldview, conveniently tends to serve institutionalized power.4"
The section on What NPR Could Be is achievable and specific: Advocate harder for funding from Congress (to reduce reliance on corporate 'donors', spend more time on underreported stories (fill a niche that commercial radio will not!), less celebs - more local stories, name root causes.
They also spend time on the issue of hiring elites as their reporting staff. I think NPR is sort of working on this is their podcasting 'products', and some of those voices end up making it on All Things Considered or Morning Edition, but they should strengthen that on ramp for non elites to report, edit and produce the big shows.
posted by latkes at 10:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
They are creatures of the Metro DC world which is completely removed from reality on every level.
I beg your pardon?
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 10:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
I beg your pardon?
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 10:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
I largely threw in the towel on their news programming in '03, appalled by their initial coverage of the Iraq War, which parroted Bush talking points and was almost (at least in my memory) wholly uncritical.
This was also around the time I began to truly be able to distinguish between genuine leftists / radicals and liberals, however, driven by other factors - it may also have been learning to recognize the "dulcet tones of the voice of reason" that Gadarene notes above as the hissing of a snake.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:17 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
This was also around the time I began to truly be able to distinguish between genuine leftists / radicals and liberals, however, driven by other factors - it may also have been learning to recognize the "dulcet tones of the voice of reason" that Gadarene notes above as the hissing of a snake.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:17 AM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think I spent something like 10-15 years waking up to Morning Edition, starting sometime near the beginning of the Bush W. admin up until maybe the first few months of the Trump admin. I could put up with the normalization of Republican talking points under the auspices of pure reportage (e.g.: these were powerful and influential people and their opinions and views were kind of de facto newsworthy and worth reporting on). But where I drew the line and finally ended up abandoning my morning radio routine was when they kept playing vox pop soundbites of just random people spouting just absolutely vile anti-muslim stuff. I don't recall the specifics, but I remember the feeling that they wouldn't be airing just random nobodies proclaiming the blood libel but they're deliberately airing this. Like, there was no specific journalistic value to those kinds of vox pops except if you think anti-muslim bigotry is somehow newsworthy. And, given that there was no pushback or analysis of this bigotry, the idea is that it would be specifically newsworthy in the sense that the public should hear more about these bigoted views and how normal, ordinary, man-on-the-street-type people hold these views. Also, I remember thinking that if it happened once, it could have just been a mistake or error in judgment, but no it just kept happening.
posted by mhum at 10:50 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mhum at 10:50 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
> desire for NPR to be a publicly funded advocacy organization promoting ultra-progressive, far left views
They don't have to be Maoists or anything, but it would be great if they didn't sort of guilelessly serve as an outlet for corporate, right-wing, and military-industrial complex propaganda. Like they'll just let some psycho like Rich Lowry come on and treat him like he's a "conservative intellectual" (an oxy-moron), and not like who he is: an extreme right wing radical who has dedicated his life to taking us back to the jim crow era, giving only the most token and "balanced" opposition. It drives me nuts sometimes.
posted by dis_integration at 10:51 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
They don't have to be Maoists or anything, but it would be great if they didn't sort of guilelessly serve as an outlet for corporate, right-wing, and military-industrial complex propaganda. Like they'll just let some psycho like Rich Lowry come on and treat him like he's a "conservative intellectual" (an oxy-moron), and not like who he is: an extreme right wing radical who has dedicated his life to taking us back to the jim crow era, giving only the most token and "balanced" opposition. It drives me nuts sometimes.
posted by dis_integration at 10:51 AM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Nthing this not being a hot take. I'm not American, but used to consume a lot of NPR programming via podcast. I don't recall exactly what finally turned me off, but it was definitely something related to the overall upholding of the status quo and sort of brushing off any possible alternative as silly and not to be taken seriously.
posted by asnider at 11:03 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by asnider at 11:03 AM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
CNN is partisan? Really? I guess I appreciate this, since I know to take everything else with a large grain of salt.--3j0hn
CNN is now owned by Warner Bros. Discovery, and they want to rework CNN. Its board member billionaire John Malone has said:
“I would like to see CNN evolve back to the kind of journalism that it started with, and actually have journalists, which would be unique and refreshing,” he said. Then he suggested a model: “Fox News, in my opinion, has followed an interesting trajectory of trying to have ‘news’ news, I mean some actual journalism, embedded in a program schedule of all opinions.”
Doesn't sound promising, when Fox is held up as an example to emulate.
posted by eye of newt at 11:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
CNN is now owned by Warner Bros. Discovery, and they want to rework CNN. Its board member billionaire John Malone has said:
“I would like to see CNN evolve back to the kind of journalism that it started with, and actually have journalists, which would be unique and refreshing,” he said. Then he suggested a model: “Fox News, in my opinion, has followed an interesting trajectory of trying to have ‘news’ news, I mean some actual journalism, embedded in a program schedule of all opinions.”
Doesn't sound promising, when Fox is held up as an example to emulate.
posted by eye of newt at 11:06 AM on October 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
A brief(?) excerpt from my rant to the Ombuds office at NPR in 2018 - after they ran a 'both sides do it' piece about how the Tax Cuts and Jobs act was railroaded through.
...Since 2015, I have grown dissatisfied with the reporting from NPR, whether reporters are giving white nationalists an air of legitimacy in airing interviews, or wishy-washy reasoning for not calling a lie a lie. Too often, NPR reporting over-corrects for their publicly perceived liberal bias. As a result we end up with journalism like the above, which uses Max Baucus saying he hadn't read ALL the statutory language in the ACA (of which he was a chief author) as a counterexample to the 7-day, no-hearings, no-debate, handwritten-margins railroading of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. While it is not factually inaccurate, it is not a fair comparison, and should not be reported as such.
I got a "thanks for your concern" autoreply.
posted by onehalfjunco at 11:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
...Since 2015, I have grown dissatisfied with the reporting from NPR, whether reporters are giving white nationalists an air of legitimacy in airing interviews, or wishy-washy reasoning for not calling a lie a lie. Too often, NPR reporting over-corrects for their publicly perceived liberal bias. As a result we end up with journalism like the above, which uses Max Baucus saying he hadn't read ALL the statutory language in the ACA (of which he was a chief author) as a counterexample to the 7-day, no-hearings, no-debate, handwritten-margins railroading of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. While it is not factually inaccurate, it is not a fair comparison, and should not be reported as such.
I got a "thanks for your concern" autoreply.
posted by onehalfjunco at 11:08 AM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I wrote to the ombudsman about this, and his reply was about as superficial as you'd expect: "We have listeners in Red states too, you know!"
Yeah, and so what?
NPR's response to criticism of their being overly accommodating to Republican talking points that they ought to know are false is that "they get criticism from both sides of the aisle." Only that dodge again invokes the fallacy of the golden mean -- conservatives criticize NPR in order to defang it; liberals do so to get NPR to do its job.
Though it's clear that NPR considers what it's doing to be its job, for good or ill.
What NPR describes as their standard tone of cordiality
NPR's problem is a willful failure to recognize that lying and bad faith are inherently uncivil and not cordial, no matter how polite a tone it's done in.
NPR's national political correspondent also works for Fox News.
A fact they rarely, if ever, disclose, though every time they cover the tech sector, they mention that Facebook or Google or whoever contributes to the program.
posted by Gelatin at 11:21 AM on October 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
Yeah, and so what?
NPR's response to criticism of their being overly accommodating to Republican talking points that they ought to know are false is that "they get criticism from both sides of the aisle." Only that dodge again invokes the fallacy of the golden mean -- conservatives criticize NPR in order to defang it; liberals do so to get NPR to do its job.
Though it's clear that NPR considers what it's doing to be its job, for good or ill.
What NPR describes as their standard tone of cordiality
NPR's problem is a willful failure to recognize that lying and bad faith are inherently uncivil and not cordial, no matter how polite a tone it's done in.
NPR's national political correspondent also works for Fox News.
A fact they rarely, if ever, disclose, though every time they cover the tech sector, they mention that Facebook or Google or whoever contributes to the program.
posted by Gelatin at 11:21 AM on October 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
Yeah CNN has decided there's more money to be made chasing conservative eyeballs and they're looking to abandon the pretense of neutrality and move right.
posted by subdee at 11:27 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by subdee at 11:27 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't really know how to solve the overall issue but I would be intrigued to hear where those of you who so aggressively reject NPR get your daily news.
So here's yesterday's Morning Edition play list. Generously counting daily news as "things that have changed recently and I, as a citizen, need to be updated on" here's what I pull out from that:
I don't find any of this particularly challenging to replace. Serious question: Is there any of this you wouldn't know if you dumped NPR for a quick scan of the headlines and lede grafs online each morning? Are there any "in depth" stories here you'd actually struggle to find done at least as well somewhere else?
Since you asked about actual habits, mine includes a WaPo subscription and that would, on its own, replace the whole set.
In actuality of course I read a bunch more sources and those all trade up. I pay for the LA Times and Talking Points Memo too.
TPM (even free) is going to better at analysis of any Washington or Trump story--and I don't mean "I agree with them more," I mean more in depth reporting with better understanding of how things will play out. I mentioned Vox podcasts earlier; I actually listened on my other end of commute yesterday and so got 25 minutes on the VRA and sovereign legislature cases in much more depth than 4 minutes with Nina Totenberg. I'll get much better environmental and foreign affairs coverage linked to from people I follow online. Same with tech and science.
posted by mark k at 11:41 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
So here's yesterday's Morning Edition play list. Generously counting daily news as "things that have changed recently and I, as a citizen, need to be updated on" here's what I pull out from that:
- News Roundup (11 minutes)
- Colorado River Drought / Water Rights (5 minutes) --> I heard only this and some of the news roundup.
- North Korea Missile (3 minutes)
- Supreme Court VRA Case (4 minutes)
- Russia / Ukraine Analysis (4 minutes)
- Hurricane Ian (two segments, 7 minutes)
- Oath Keepers Prosecution, Herschel Walker, Iran, Loretta Lynn (4 minutes each)
I don't find any of this particularly challenging to replace. Serious question: Is there any of this you wouldn't know if you dumped NPR for a quick scan of the headlines and lede grafs online each morning? Are there any "in depth" stories here you'd actually struggle to find done at least as well somewhere else?
Since you asked about actual habits, mine includes a WaPo subscription and that would, on its own, replace the whole set.
In actuality of course I read a bunch more sources and those all trade up. I pay for the LA Times and Talking Points Memo too.
TPM (even free) is going to better at analysis of any Washington or Trump story--and I don't mean "I agree with them more," I mean more in depth reporting with better understanding of how things will play out. I mentioned Vox podcasts earlier; I actually listened on my other end of commute yesterday and so got 25 minutes on the VRA and sovereign legislature cases in much more depth than 4 minutes with Nina Totenberg. I'll get much better environmental and foreign affairs coverage linked to from people I follow online. Same with tech and science.
posted by mark k at 11:41 AM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
They are creatures of the Metro DC world which is completely removed from reality on every level.
This is both factually wrong and taking a giant shit on the millions of decent people who live in the DC area, which is sadly par for the course here.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:58 AM on October 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
This is both factually wrong and taking a giant shit on the millions of decent people who live in the DC area, which is sadly par for the course here.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:58 AM on October 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
NPR's national political correspondent also works for Fox News.
A fact they rarely, if ever, disclose, though every time they cover the tech sector, they mention that Facebook or Google or whoever contributes to the program.
posted by Gelatin
And Mara Liasson was openly contemptuous of the Obama presidency in general. A week or two before the ACA passed, she sneered at it as naked pandering to the base which had absolutely no chance of becoming law.
And to make my objections more explicit than I thought I would possibly need to here, Devils Rancher, no one with even the most remote claim to integrity, intellectual honesty, or even simple good judgement, could ever be an on air personality for Fox.
posted by jamjam at 12:03 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Of course, depending on how much you believe someone like Media Bias Fact Check, current ratings for a "Left leaning, high credibility, high factuality" source:
No results.
posted by abulafa at 9:08 AM
sorry but this is the last time i will point out democracy now, which ranks thusly on that site. thanks, all
posted by eustatic at 12:07 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
No results.
posted by abulafa at 9:08 AM
sorry but this is the last time i will point out democracy now, which ranks thusly on that site. thanks, all
posted by eustatic at 12:07 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
7 AM - 8 AM segment consists of ...
7 minutes of Actual US & World News (top of the hour), followed by ...posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:15 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
3 minutes of Local News, then ...
40 minutes of Anecdotal Tales of Misery and Woe from Some Randos, and finally ...
10 minutes of Some Relative Unknown Humping Their Album Release or Book
I don't find any of this particularly challenging to replace.
There is also PBS Newshour, which is just long enough to offer background conditions behind certain moves in the world. Mike Pompeo once accused them on air of being a liberal outlet and the interviewer and chief editor shot him down instantly by saying she was an independent journalist, but she said it condescendingly like he was an idiot who didn't know they existed. (Shoutout to her lifetime Emmy award). More to the point, it is curious why one should want their news slanted or tailored perhaps. It won't be watched by anyone but the target audience so the information is useless propaganda-wise, and it won't motivate anyone who isn't already in the choir, which is not its job anyway. Political affirmation by newsletter slant also serves an alienated viewpoint that wants the "truth" revealed.
posted by Brian B. at 12:46 PM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
There is also PBS Newshour, which is just long enough to offer background conditions behind certain moves in the world. Mike Pompeo once accused them on air of being a liberal outlet and the interviewer and chief editor shot him down instantly by saying she was an independent journalist, but she said it condescendingly like he was an idiot who didn't know they existed. (Shoutout to her lifetime Emmy award). More to the point, it is curious why one should want their news slanted or tailored perhaps. It won't be watched by anyone but the target audience so the information is useless propaganda-wise, and it won't motivate anyone who isn't already in the choir, which is not its job anyway. Political affirmation by newsletter slant also serves an alienated viewpoint that wants the "truth" revealed.
posted by Brian B. at 12:46 PM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
43 minutes of Anecdotal Tales of Misery and Woe from Some Randos, and finally ...
This.
NPR is great at putting a human face on what's happening, but they absolutely suck when it comes to being an advocate. They can spend twenty minutes sharing the most heartbreaking, first-hand accounts of people who are directly impacted by terrible policies and then segue into the most wishy-washy interview with the policy-maker without even mentioning what they had just previously aired. And NPR has the gall to call this 'unbiased' reporting.
You can be an advocate without being biased. Journalists can ask questions like "what would you, Senator who opposes all abortion, say to the rape victim we just interviewed?" without compromising your objectivity. Journalists can demand real answers, not oblique talking points, without betraying their neutrality. The BBC does it*, and yet NPR refuses to do this over and over again!
* I know the BBC has problems, but they're way ahead of NPR when it comes to actually interviewing people and holding their feet to the fire
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:02 PM on October 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
This.
NPR is great at putting a human face on what's happening, but they absolutely suck when it comes to being an advocate. They can spend twenty minutes sharing the most heartbreaking, first-hand accounts of people who are directly impacted by terrible policies and then segue into the most wishy-washy interview with the policy-maker without even mentioning what they had just previously aired. And NPR has the gall to call this 'unbiased' reporting.
You can be an advocate without being biased. Journalists can ask questions like "what would you, Senator who opposes all abortion, say to the rape victim we just interviewed?" without compromising your objectivity. Journalists can demand real answers, not oblique talking points, without betraying their neutrality. The BBC does it*, and yet NPR refuses to do this over and over again!
* I know the BBC has problems, but they're way ahead of NPR when it comes to actually interviewing people and holding their feet to the fire
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:02 PM on October 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
There are some things that are simultaneously objective truths and "far left" policy in the US.
Universal Healthcare is more cost-effective than what we've got right now.
Global warming / climate change is real, man-made, and a health and welfare concern.
Crime prevention via education and social work is more effective than the prison-industrial complex.
These are all borne out by the pure and simple mathematics, and we should expect any "neutral" and "objective" news source to not "both sides" these issues.
Additionally, we're the "land of the free" and so matters of bodily autonomy (read: abortion, gay/trans rights) should be considered inviolate.
This stuff is not "progressive," it's not "far left," and to even frame it as such is to cede Republican talking points.
Something called "National Public Radio" should be held to a higher standard of truth, and they just have no guiding mission beyond "beg funding from corporate sponsors," and that sucks.
posted by explosion at 1:10 PM on October 5, 2022 [21 favorites]
Universal Healthcare is more cost-effective than what we've got right now.
Global warming / climate change is real, man-made, and a health and welfare concern.
Crime prevention via education and social work is more effective than the prison-industrial complex.
These are all borne out by the pure and simple mathematics, and we should expect any "neutral" and "objective" news source to not "both sides" these issues.
Additionally, we're the "land of the free" and so matters of bodily autonomy (read: abortion, gay/trans rights) should be considered inviolate.
This stuff is not "progressive," it's not "far left," and to even frame it as such is to cede Republican talking points.
Something called "National Public Radio" should be held to a higher standard of truth, and they just have no guiding mission beyond "beg funding from corporate sponsors," and that sucks.
posted by explosion at 1:10 PM on October 5, 2022 [21 favorites]
At least Media Bias Fact Check has a multi-axis criteria. It infuriates me when sites like AllSides call out media bias with charts like this.
Of course they have a disclaimer, "Ratings do not reflect accuracy or credibility; they reflect perspective only," but the mere existence of a chart like that implies some equivalency between Mother Jones or Vox on the left with OAN or Newsmax on the right which is just madness.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:46 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Of course they have a disclaimer, "Ratings do not reflect accuracy or credibility; they reflect perspective only," but the mere existence of a chart like that implies some equivalency between Mother Jones or Vox on the left with OAN or Newsmax on the right which is just madness.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:46 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Democracy Now rates "high" but not "very high" on factuality. I don't know how or why that website makes that differentiation. Despite the unnecessarily absolutist recommendation I'll give DN another shot since I can't recall why I took it off the podcast subscriptions long ago.
This discussion feels like one of those proxy fights where we all probably agree on 85 to 90% of what we want out of news media but somehow we need to magnify the differences and exaggerate the virtuousness of our various diets... To some end. I don't honestly understand why it's necessary.
OP laid out more or less my position, firstly, fully owning NPR still has a place in regular rotation and could certainly do better. For me that position is curated audio I can stop and start preferably resume at the end of the day with a recap of anything I may have missed. The recommendations for replacements read a lot like how Linux for the desktop just needs a few hundred hours of configuration then it's just as good if not better.
So, for those of you who reject NPR and see it as a hard line, cool. For the article, I don't really see a lot of value in securing congressional funding. Not because I don't think it should happen (much as it should for postal banking and a thousand other things on my wish list) but because just like the national endowment for the arts and PBS, it is a great way to become a stupid yearly political football whose funding can be threatened every time a new fascist administration comes into power.
Is corporate funding better? Of fucking course not, but is it paying for comparatively high quality reporting right now? It is, even if that reporting is not calling out every talking point every time, it has made a genuine shift away from cordiality over credibility. There's plenty more grounds to cover though.
posted by abulafa at 2:34 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
This discussion feels like one of those proxy fights where we all probably agree on 85 to 90% of what we want out of news media but somehow we need to magnify the differences and exaggerate the virtuousness of our various diets... To some end. I don't honestly understand why it's necessary.
OP laid out more or less my position, firstly, fully owning NPR still has a place in regular rotation and could certainly do better. For me that position is curated audio I can stop and start preferably resume at the end of the day with a recap of anything I may have missed. The recommendations for replacements read a lot like how Linux for the desktop just needs a few hundred hours of configuration then it's just as good if not better.
So, for those of you who reject NPR and see it as a hard line, cool. For the article, I don't really see a lot of value in securing congressional funding. Not because I don't think it should happen (much as it should for postal banking and a thousand other things on my wish list) but because just like the national endowment for the arts and PBS, it is a great way to become a stupid yearly political football whose funding can be threatened every time a new fascist administration comes into power.
Is corporate funding better? Of fucking course not, but is it paying for comparatively high quality reporting right now? It is, even if that reporting is not calling out every talking point every time, it has made a genuine shift away from cordiality over credibility. There's plenty more grounds to cover though.
posted by abulafa at 2:34 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
NPR annoys me because I feel like it's echoing my moderate left opinions back to me, do you have time to let me do particularly excluding the right. I'd like them to include socialist sources as well as prolife sources, and so on. I want to hear from them precisely because I don't agree with them.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 2:43 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 2:43 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I blame NPR for the promoting the spread of "uptalk".
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:52 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:52 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
At the risk of regretting ever asking this, what's uptalk?
posted by MrVisible at 2:55 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by MrVisible at 2:55 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
NPR believes that its audience are sophisticates who are looking for impactful perspective.
So, it will present Republican officeholders' and lobbyists' views, and vox populi interviews of flyover Evangelical businessmen, because the NPR audience understands those people to be both influential and far enough out of their orbit they wouldn't otherwise hear their perspective.
But it won't present a dyed-in-wool leftist journalist's riposte to the foregoing, because he ain't influencing squat, and the NPR audience gets that perspective all day long from their lefty kids and assistants and social media.
I don't think it makes sense to attack their journalists for their fancy credentials. It would be very interesting to see how many of them graduated their fancy schools with no debt and how many years (including up to present) their well-off parents subsidized their journalism education and career.
posted by MattD at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
So, it will present Republican officeholders' and lobbyists' views, and vox populi interviews of flyover Evangelical businessmen, because the NPR audience understands those people to be both influential and far enough out of their orbit they wouldn't otherwise hear their perspective.
But it won't present a dyed-in-wool leftist journalist's riposte to the foregoing, because he ain't influencing squat, and the NPR audience gets that perspective all day long from their lefty kids and assistants and social media.
I don't think it makes sense to attack their journalists for their fancy credentials. It would be very interesting to see how many of them graduated their fancy schools with no debt and how many years (including up to present) their well-off parents subsidized their journalism education and career.
posted by MattD at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
At the risk of regretting ever asking this, what's uptalk?
posted by y2karl at 3:24 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 3:24 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not much? What's uptalk with you?
posted by fnerg at 3:29 PM on October 5, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by fnerg at 3:29 PM on October 5, 2022 [22 favorites]
Okay, I've listened. I remember why I took Democracy Now off my rotation - it is in desperate need of an editor, both for content and for basic audio quality, not to mention music.
Like seriously, how long does a sound bite need to be when it is the same person reiterating the same point three times with terrible background noise that makes it only partially audible?
I do appreciate the additional level of depth such as noting that the Amazon warehouse with the recent fire and suspended staff was also the first one to unionize, this was a fact apparently not considered relevant in other reporting.
So... Tolerate terrible editing for additional depths of coverage? I know it makes me a bougie asshole but I don't really want to do that.
posted by abulafa at 3:36 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Like seriously, how long does a sound bite need to be when it is the same person reiterating the same point three times with terrible background noise that makes it only partially audible?
I do appreciate the additional level of depth such as noting that the Amazon warehouse with the recent fire and suspended staff was also the first one to unionize, this was a fact apparently not considered relevant in other reporting.
So... Tolerate terrible editing for additional depths of coverage? I know it makes me a bougie asshole but I don't really want to do that.
posted by abulafa at 3:36 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
> NPR is great at putting a human face on what's happening, but they absolutely suck when it comes to being an advocate.
I don't think it's journalism's job to advocate, it's to be a trustworthy investigator and reporter. And yes, to ask hard questions, and to give us their analysis and opinion, but that's it.
We the public (mostly) suck at receiving difficult truths, and hence at advocacy for resolution.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:37 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I don't think it's journalism's job to advocate, it's to be a trustworthy investigator and reporter. And yes, to ask hard questions, and to give us their analysis and opinion, but that's it.
We the public (mostly) suck at receiving difficult truths, and hence at advocacy for resolution.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:37 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
We the public (mostly) suck at receiving difficult truths, and hence at advocacy for resolution.
If that's the case, then how do you explain the effectiveness of right wing media? You can say "well, they're not playing by the rules of journalism and they shouldn't be advocating anything" but honestly, who's going to stop them?
Journalism is advocacy. It's advocacy for a world where those in power are held accountable. It's advocacy for amplifying voices of the powerless to make sure they're heard by the powerful. In the broadest sense, it's advocacy for the kind of society we want to live in. Pretending otherwise is to cede the floor to the likes of Fox News.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:10 PM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
If that's the case, then how do you explain the effectiveness of right wing media? You can say "well, they're not playing by the rules of journalism and they shouldn't be advocating anything" but honestly, who's going to stop them?
Journalism is advocacy. It's advocacy for a world where those in power are held accountable. It's advocacy for amplifying voices of the powerless to make sure they're heard by the powerful. In the broadest sense, it's advocacy for the kind of society we want to live in. Pretending otherwise is to cede the floor to the likes of Fox News.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:10 PM on October 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
NPR has issues but none like those of PBS and its endless flood of junk science infomercials by loathsome megafraudster
toadstools from Daniel Amen to Susie Orman and beyond. Pegan diet my ass.
posted by y2karl at 4:11 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
toadstools from Daniel Amen to Susie Orman and beyond. Pegan diet my ass.
posted by y2karl at 4:11 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
> If that's the case, then how do you explain the effectiveness of right wing media?
You're making my point for me. Instead of difficult truths, most of the right wing "media" serve up facile and soothing rationalizations for confused and butthurt folks who feel challenged and attacked by um, reality, but also by an overzealous and militant left ("Basket of deplorables", "woke", privilege, etc). Sentiments ably weaponized by Trump and Co.
posted by Artful Codger at 4:42 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
You're making my point for me. Instead of difficult truths, most of the right wing "media" serve up facile and soothing rationalizations for confused and butthurt folks who feel challenged and attacked by um, reality, but also by an overzealous and militant left ("Basket of deplorables", "woke", privilege, etc). Sentiments ably weaponized by Trump and Co.
posted by Artful Codger at 4:42 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
The local NPR station here in San Francisco, just had their pledge thing. From the sound of their whining, extended another week, it appears that the donor pool has begun to dry up. Not surprising given the continuing spiral into mediocrity.
I feel that some of the locally-produced KQED programming is worthwhile, which may be possible due to that fundraising, like The California Report, Forum, Political Breakdown or Bay Curious. Not that this minimizes the fact that NPR news coverage is not as sharp or insightful as it should be.
I'm fortunate to live in an area where there are several other choices for public/non-commercial radio, like KPFA or KALW (which pre-dates NPR). I particularly like KALW's Your Legal Rights call-in show for basic legal advice.
posted by JDC8 at 5:07 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I feel that some of the locally-produced KQED programming is worthwhile, which may be possible due to that fundraising, like The California Report, Forum, Political Breakdown or Bay Curious. Not that this minimizes the fact that NPR news coverage is not as sharp or insightful as it should be.
I'm fortunate to live in an area where there are several other choices for public/non-commercial radio, like KPFA or KALW (which pre-dates NPR). I particularly like KALW's Your Legal Rights call-in show for basic legal advice.
posted by JDC8 at 5:07 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
At the risk of regretting ever asking this, what's uptalk?
It's just a modern way of talking where every statement is intoned like a question. Seems to have sprang from "Valley Girl" speak in the 80s. It's extremely common, you hear it all the time.
From Wikipedia
The high rising terminal (HRT), also known as upspeak, uptalk, or high rising intonation (HRI) is a feature of some variants of English where declarative sentences can end with a rising pitch similar to that typically found in yes-or-no questions.
posted by Liquidwolf at 5:19 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's just a modern way of talking where every statement is intoned like a question. Seems to have sprang from "Valley Girl" speak in the 80s. It's extremely common, you hear it all the time.
From Wikipedia
The high rising terminal (HRT), also known as upspeak, uptalk, or high rising intonation (HRI) is a feature of some variants of English where declarative sentences can end with a rising pitch similar to that typically found in yes-or-no questions.
posted by Liquidwolf at 5:19 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
butthurt folks
Well that's not a great start...
who feel challenged and attacked by um, reality, but also by an overzealous and militant left ("Basket of deplorables", "woke", privilege, etc).
"Basket of deplorables" was a statement from a slightly left-of-center politician who is extremely unpopular with the left. Also, I fail to see how "wokeness" and discussions of privilege are unrealistic or any kind of an issue, let alone evidence of violent left-wing extremism, but that does explain the constant both-sidesing here.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:29 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well that's not a great start...
who feel challenged and attacked by um, reality, but also by an overzealous and militant left ("Basket of deplorables", "woke", privilege, etc).
"Basket of deplorables" was a statement from a slightly left-of-center politician who is extremely unpopular with the left. Also, I fail to see how "wokeness" and discussions of privilege are unrealistic or any kind of an issue, let alone evidence of violent left-wing extremism, but that does explain the constant both-sidesing here.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:29 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
From Wikipedia
Also mentioned on the wiki:
Also mentioned on the wiki:
There appears to be merit to the claim that gendered connotations of HRT give rise to difficulties for women in particular. Anne Charity Hudley, a linguist at Stanford University, suggests, "When certain linguistic traits are tied to women ... they often will be assigned a negative attribute without any actual evidence". Negative associations with the speech pattern, in combination with gendered expectations, have contributed to an implication that for female speakers to be viewed as authoritative, they ought to sound more like men than women. These implications are perpetuated by various media, including the coverage of politics.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:36 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Basket of deplorables" was a statement from a slightly left-of-center politician who is extremely unpopular with the left.
that’s true (although she’s center right but i digress ) but if you asked the average gop voter they’d say she’s an outright communist
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
that’s true (although she’s center right but i digress ) but if you asked the average gop voter they’d say she’s an outright communist
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
For the question "where do you get your news from if not NPR" ... I watch the streaming channel Newsy for news... It's not a lefty channel, it aims to be neutral, BUT in practice they have a lot of segments talking to people who work for govt or nonprofits explaining their work, which makes it liberal bc "reality has a liberal bias "
I also get a lot of news from here or from the NYT or Washington post... And I like Democracy Now as well.
posted by subdee at 6:15 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I also get a lot of news from here or from the NYT or Washington post... And I like Democracy Now as well.
posted by subdee at 6:15 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
> Well that's not a great start...
Oh please...
> "Basket of deplorables" was a statement from aslightly left-of-center Democratic politician. Also, I fail to see how "wokeness" and discussions of privilege are unrealistic or any kind of an issue
It's the way they are wielded as bludgeons. Like privilege was some sort of voluntary crime that you have to confess at every opportunity, and it cancels your opinion. And you're bad cos you're not "woke" enough to please some.
(I'm progressive, folks, but it doesn't blind me to the damage caused by our overzealousness)
posted by Artful Codger at 6:16 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Oh please...
> "Basket of deplorables" was a statement from a
It's the way they are wielded as bludgeons. Like privilege was some sort of voluntary crime that you have to confess at every opportunity, and it cancels your opinion. And you're bad cos you're not "woke" enough to please some.
(I'm progressive, folks, but it doesn't blind me to the damage caused by our overzealousness)
posted by Artful Codger at 6:16 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
tl;dr, your complaints are all valid. However, if you want to get news in the form of spoken-word audio via those now somewhat-archaic devices (which I find indispensable) called radios in the US and you don't want to hear advertising* there is no alternative. Quitcher bitching.
Myself, I'm blessed to live in an area where the classical station is also the NPR station and is excellent, so very much so that I'm actually compelled to donate, regularly, something I've seldom done in my 42 years of Public Radio listening.
*Yes, I know the underwriting announcements are way out of control. Still, they aren't commercials.
posted by Rash at 6:17 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Myself, I'm blessed to live in an area where the classical station is also the NPR station and is excellent, so very much so that I'm actually compelled to donate, regularly, something I've seldom done in my 42 years of Public Radio listening.
*Yes, I know the underwriting announcements are way out of control. Still, they aren't commercials.
posted by Rash at 6:17 PM on October 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Oh please...
We had this discussion almost a decade ago, but do go ahead and keep digging that hole.
Democratic politician
Yes, by US standards, the Democrats are a center-left party, and as dis_integration points out above, closer to center-right by the standards of a lot of places outside the US.
It's the way they are wielded as bludgeons. Like privilege was some sort of voluntary crime that you have to confess at every opportunity, and it cancels your opinion. And you're bad cos you're not "woke" enough to please some.
You're right, I totally forgot about the SJW Gestapo that threw Dave Chappelle into a dungeon and threw away the key before going back home to take a poop in their litter boxes after a long night of indoctrinating their children with the transgender agenda.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 6:40 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
We had this discussion almost a decade ago, but do go ahead and keep digging that hole.
Democratic politician
Yes, by US standards, the Democrats are a center-left party, and as dis_integration points out above, closer to center-right by the standards of a lot of places outside the US.
It's the way they are wielded as bludgeons. Like privilege was some sort of voluntary crime that you have to confess at every opportunity, and it cancels your opinion. And you're bad cos you're not "woke" enough to please some.
You're right, I totally forgot about the SJW Gestapo that threw Dave Chappelle into a dungeon and threw away the key before going back home to take a poop in their litter boxes after a long night of indoctrinating their children with the transgender agenda.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 6:40 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
the standards of a lot of places outside the US.
Not to take this derail too far, but, um, have you looked outside the US lately?
posted by schmod at 7:13 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not to take this derail too far, but, um, have you looked outside the US lately?
posted by schmod at 7:13 PM on October 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's the way they are wielded as bludgeons. Like privilege was some sort of voluntary crime that you have to confess at every opportunity, and it cancels your opinion. And you're bad cos you're not "woke" enough to please some.
C'mon, if I wanted to hear Fox News inventions of what the boogeyman Left believes I'd flip on my local Sinclair station.
posted by CrystalDave at 7:25 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
C'mon, if I wanted to hear Fox News inventions of what the boogeyman Left believes I'd flip on my local Sinclair station.
posted by CrystalDave at 7:25 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
“Right, but the average layperson and listener will hear these "NPR" shows if they have their dial set to an NPR station. It feels like nitpicking to "well, actually" something that NPR clearly endorses and facilitates access to.”
But NPR doesn’t endorse and facilitate access to "On The Media", as 3j0hn explained very well. Your local public radio station is not NPR. They pay for NPR's content (which probably makes up the majority of their programming), and they also pay for other shows (like "On the Media", which is distributed by WNYC, not NPR), and they also create some of their own programming.
This is just like your local NBC affiliate. They carry NBC's programming (which probably makes up the majority of their programming), and they also pay for other shows (like re-runs, or syndicated shows like "The View", which are not NBC shows), and they also probably produce their own content (like their news shows and maybe a morning talk show, which are also not NBC shows).
So it's definitely not nitpicking to point out that a show that isn't produced by NPR isn't produced by NPR, especially in a discussion about shows that NPR actually does produce.
posted by jonathanhughes at 7:30 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
But NPR doesn’t endorse and facilitate access to "On The Media", as 3j0hn explained very well. Your local public radio station is not NPR. They pay for NPR's content (which probably makes up the majority of their programming), and they also pay for other shows (like "On the Media", which is distributed by WNYC, not NPR), and they also create some of their own programming.
This is just like your local NBC affiliate. They carry NBC's programming (which probably makes up the majority of their programming), and they also pay for other shows (like re-runs, or syndicated shows like "The View", which are not NBC shows), and they also probably produce their own content (like their news shows and maybe a morning talk show, which are also not NBC shows).
So it's definitely not nitpicking to point out that a show that isn't produced by NPR isn't produced by NPR, especially in a discussion about shows that NPR actually does produce.
posted by jonathanhughes at 7:30 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
This feels very circular-firing-squad / perfect-as-enemy-of-good to me.
Like, it's really expensive to produce and distribute mass media in the US, at least via conventional channels like radio. Public radio stations are, as a group, basically as left-leaning as you can get in the US while still playing in that arena.
I doubt many Public Radio stations takeadvertising sponsorship dollars from Northrop Grumman or C3AI or whatever because they deep-down want to, but I highly doubt that the dudes down at my local farmers' market have the media budget to replace them. Where's the money for licenses and programming supposed to come from?
NPR, along with American Public Media (playing such hits as Marketplace and The BBC World Service) and Public Radio International / Public Radio Exchange (Science Friday, This American Life), produce programming and sell it to stations. In the case of NPR, IIRC it's a sort of membership organization where stations are also the owners and have some say in control of it; APM and PRI are more independent. All three are non-profits, which (and I'm pretty critical of US "non-profits") at least means they're not doling out dividends to shareholders. But they do functionally compete with each other for airtime.
If Public Radio stations wanted to buy more explicitly left-leaning content, I'm sure NPR, and if not them APM or PRI, would be happy to create it. But just like most other media, the stations have to play to where they think their listenership (in the case of Public Radio, rather specifically the portion of the listenership who regularly cut them checks) are. And they're probably correct when they think that hewing much further left politically would cost them more donors than it would gain.
And Air America tried. It pretty explicitly tried to explore the media market to the political left of NPR, and couldn't stay in business. Strangely, there just isn't the same amount of money in challenging the status quo, as there is in defending it.
Given that, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect a national organization that exists to make programming for as expensive a distribution method as broadcast radio to have anything other than middle-of-the-road, inoffensive politics. If you want less-milquetoast politics, in a media environment like the US's, you probably need to look at mediums that have a much lower barrier to entry.
E.g. there's a ton of "two liberals in a garage talk about politics" content on the various podcast platforms. Some of it's not even terrible! But the stuff with higher production values, or who get high-profile guests, tend to have advertising and product-placement that's even more obnoxious than NPR's. (I've admittedly never really understood the economics of podcasting, but it seems like there's a very common progression from "one person with a passion project they do for free" to "oh wow this got super popular" to "...and now, a word from our sponsor!")
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:01 PM on October 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
Like, it's really expensive to produce and distribute mass media in the US, at least via conventional channels like radio. Public radio stations are, as a group, basically as left-leaning as you can get in the US while still playing in that arena.
I doubt many Public Radio stations take
NPR, along with American Public Media (playing such hits as Marketplace and The BBC World Service) and Public Radio International / Public Radio Exchange (Science Friday, This American Life), produce programming and sell it to stations. In the case of NPR, IIRC it's a sort of membership organization where stations are also the owners and have some say in control of it; APM and PRI are more independent. All three are non-profits, which (and I'm pretty critical of US "non-profits") at least means they're not doling out dividends to shareholders. But they do functionally compete with each other for airtime.
If Public Radio stations wanted to buy more explicitly left-leaning content, I'm sure NPR, and if not them APM or PRI, would be happy to create it. But just like most other media, the stations have to play to where they think their listenership (in the case of Public Radio, rather specifically the portion of the listenership who regularly cut them checks) are. And they're probably correct when they think that hewing much further left politically would cost them more donors than it would gain.
And Air America tried. It pretty explicitly tried to explore the media market to the political left of NPR, and couldn't stay in business. Strangely, there just isn't the same amount of money in challenging the status quo, as there is in defending it.
Given that, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect a national organization that exists to make programming for as expensive a distribution method as broadcast radio to have anything other than middle-of-the-road, inoffensive politics. If you want less-milquetoast politics, in a media environment like the US's, you probably need to look at mediums that have a much lower barrier to entry.
E.g. there's a ton of "two liberals in a garage talk about politics" content on the various podcast platforms. Some of it's not even terrible! But the stuff with higher production values, or who get high-profile guests, tend to have advertising and product-placement that's even more obnoxious than NPR's. (I've admittedly never really understood the economics of podcasting, but it seems like there's a very common progression from "one person with a passion project they do for free" to "oh wow this got super popular" to "...and now, a word from our sponsor!")
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:01 PM on October 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
I'm thinking of moving to Portland Oregon so I started listening to OPB Think Out Loud. It's pretty fantastic and I wish every community had this type of reporting.
posted by rebent at 8:18 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rebent at 8:18 PM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Myself, I'm blessed to live in an area where the classical station is also the NPR station and is excellent, so very much so that I'm actually compelled to donate, regularly, something I've seldom done in my 42 years of Public Radio listening.Same, except my local NPR member station is KCRW, so most of the time it's good or excellent contemporary music programming.
On the other hand KCRW also produces Left, Right, and Center which has most of the awful things about NPR national political reporting taken to 11.
And thanks jonathanhughes for emphasizing that point about NPR the programming producer vs. "NPR member stations" which pick up national news programming and other programming from NPR, but air lots of other stuff. The various member stations have vastly different programming outside of the drive time windows.
NPR News may be underwritten by Northrup Grumman, but your local public radio station is almost certainly not getting any of that action (other than in the form of slightly lower distribution fees for NPR programming).
posted by 3j0hn at 9:35 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Agree with most everyone in this thread. NPR both-sidesing bullshit is a problem.
Also, it kinda sucks but now anyone that is Taibbi or Greenwald adjacent is instantly suspect for me. Fucking sucks. Now I have to be wary of crypto-reactionaries on top of the centrist corporatist bullshit? Fuck those people. See also: Tulsi Gabbard, Jimmy Dore, Krystal Ball.
For those who feel wistful about Air America, Sam Seder is still going strong, and he's got a great group of youngins to help shore up a progressive movement going forward.
posted by ishmael at 10:42 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, it kinda sucks but now anyone that is Taibbi or Greenwald adjacent is instantly suspect for me. Fucking sucks. Now I have to be wary of crypto-reactionaries on top of the centrist corporatist bullshit? Fuck those people. See also: Tulsi Gabbard, Jimmy Dore, Krystal Ball.
For those who feel wistful about Air America, Sam Seder is still going strong, and he's got a great group of youngins to help shore up a progressive movement going forward.
posted by ishmael at 10:42 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Anybody talking shit about Democracy Now! is dead to me.
posted by flamk at 11:22 PM on October 5, 2022
posted by flamk at 11:22 PM on October 5, 2022
Also quit in 2016. Really something how many of us did.
posted by Dokterrock at 12:44 AM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Dokterrock at 12:44 AM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also quit in 2016. Really something how many of us did.
In the intervening 5 years they started consistently referring to Trump era lies as lies and using "claimed without evidence" to frame the ongoing discussion more consistently.
It's not perfect, maybe it's too little too late, and maybe it merely reflects the societal shift away from credulous-by-default, but it's there.
A lot can change in six years.
posted by abulafa at 4:40 AM on October 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
In the intervening 5 years they started consistently referring to Trump era lies as lies and using "claimed without evidence" to frame the ongoing discussion more consistently.
It's not perfect, maybe it's too little too late, and maybe it merely reflects the societal shift away from credulous-by-default, but it's there.
A lot can change in six years.
posted by abulafa at 4:40 AM on October 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
Strangely, there just isn't the same amount of money in challenging the status quo, as there is in defending it.
I'm no longer asking that NPR provide a leftist perspective or even be a counterweight to corporate media, I'm just asking that they not defend a status quo where democracy itself is being unraveled. Republicans who openly supported the insurrection should not get a free pass to complain about inflation when it's their turn to speak on the platform.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:01 AM on October 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm no longer asking that NPR provide a leftist perspective or even be a counterweight to corporate media, I'm just asking that they not defend a status quo where democracy itself is being unraveled. Republicans who openly supported the insurrection should not get a free pass to complain about inflation when it's their turn to speak on the platform.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:01 AM on October 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
Republicans benefit greatly from journalism which compartmentalizes everything into tiny, bite-sized, issues where "both sides" get their say regardless of how things might intersect. Republicans who completely ignored covid get to complain about the slow response to monkeypox. Republicans who passed enormous tax breaks get to complain about student loan forgiveness. Republicans who support nationwide bans on abortion get to complain about the federal government restricting states rights, etc.
I am not advocating that journalists engage in any form of gatekeeping. But just....if someone said something five minutes ago about issue X which obviously runs counter to what they're currently saying about issue Y, please ask them about it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:29 AM on October 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
I am not advocating that journalists engage in any form of gatekeeping. But just....if someone said something five minutes ago about issue X which obviously runs counter to what they're currently saying about issue Y, please ask them about it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:29 AM on October 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
NPR is imperfect, but for many people (like me) they are the only game in town for news on the radio. The only other option for me is the local Fox affiliate and that is not even an option as far as I am concerned. A big problem with “public” broadcasting is that it is not adequately funded by the government and so has to rely on corporate underwriting and infomercials for funding. They do at least acknowledge when they are reporting about an entity that they have a financial relationship with. But I did stop donating to them when they started running ads (excuse me, “extended underwriting credits”). It would drive me nuts to hear them repeating the slogan of the odious Archer Daniels Midland every few minutes back in the 90s.
posted by TedW at 6:31 AM on October 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by TedW at 6:31 AM on October 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
I agree with most people's takes here, but I'd like to add another: Politics aside, NPR treats their listeners like idiots. "Is the news too confusing for you? Do you wish it could be summarized in an easy to understand fashion, because you're to dumb for anything more? Tune into Morning Edition."
And it goes beyond news - their weekend shows/podcasts do this thing that drives me crazy - two people are talking about a giant squid sighting (or something similar), and one will bring up a surprising fact and the second pretends to be surprised - "Wait, what?" (It's almost always "Wait, what?") They know what - it's what the show is about. The story is scripted - the co-host is aware of the twist.
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 8:32 AM on October 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
And it goes beyond news - their weekend shows/podcasts do this thing that drives me crazy - two people are talking about a giant squid sighting (or something similar), and one will bring up a surprising fact and the second pretends to be surprised - "Wait, what?" (It's almost always "Wait, what?") They know what - it's what the show is about. The story is scripted - the co-host is aware of the twist.
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 8:32 AM on October 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
A friend of mine heads the investigative unit at WBUR Boston and they do good work. Another friend is one of the few environmental reporters left in the state of Florida, working at WGCU Fort Myers (a tough job right now).
I'm not sure how much of either station's funding passes through from NPR (WBUR is owned by Boston University, WGCU is supported, whatever that means, by Florida Gulf Coast University) or if it even works that way, but supporting your NPR station can mean you're supporting good local journalism.
Now I'm curious. I'll ask them about the funding mechanisms.
posted by martin q blank at 9:23 AM on October 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure how much of either station's funding passes through from NPR (WBUR is owned by Boston University, WGCU is supported, whatever that means, by Florida Gulf Coast University) or if it even works that way, but supporting your NPR station can mean you're supporting good local journalism.
Now I'm curious. I'll ask them about the funding mechanisms.
posted by martin q blank at 9:23 AM on October 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
So…I worked in public radio in the mid-late 90s, in a small market in west TX (l left to go back to grad school because academia was LESS stressful than public radio. Hah!). NPR and PBS receive their government funding through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which receives its allocations from Congress. The same Congress which at various times has tried desperately to eliminate ALL funding for public media.
I absolutely agree with the criticisms about how NPR falls into a both-sides presentation of topics and desperately wish that instead of just saying when some republican talking point is untrue, they would just not even air their lies. But realistically I don’t think that will ever happen. Because at the end of the day, even though the percentage of support NPR gets from CPB has undoubtedly been dropping steadily from when I was involved, those republicans still hold some of their purse strings. And as pointed out above, producing high quality radio (or any radio journalism) is expensive. More corporate donations clearly isn’t going to make journalism more independent either.
And boy howdy you better believe that as a local station, especially in smaller markets, you are very much at the mercy of the politics of your community. The CPB does fund location stations as well as NPR, but it’s never enough to run the station outright, which is why many of them are based at colleges and universities, which usually absorb a large percentage of the operational costs.
NPR is it not perfect and I also had to take some pretty big breaks from them and all news actually in 2016. But right now, in the US there is literally no funding mechanism for non commercial, large-scale broadcast journalism that is going to be anymore left-of-center or neutral or whatever than you think NPR is. And as noted above, there seems to be no interest in the commercial space either.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 10:12 AM on October 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
I absolutely agree with the criticisms about how NPR falls into a both-sides presentation of topics and desperately wish that instead of just saying when some republican talking point is untrue, they would just not even air their lies. But realistically I don’t think that will ever happen. Because at the end of the day, even though the percentage of support NPR gets from CPB has undoubtedly been dropping steadily from when I was involved, those republicans still hold some of their purse strings. And as pointed out above, producing high quality radio (or any radio journalism) is expensive. More corporate donations clearly isn’t going to make journalism more independent either.
And boy howdy you better believe that as a local station, especially in smaller markets, you are very much at the mercy of the politics of your community. The CPB does fund location stations as well as NPR, but it’s never enough to run the station outright, which is why many of them are based at colleges and universities, which usually absorb a large percentage of the operational costs.
NPR is it not perfect and I also had to take some pretty big breaks from them and all news actually in 2016. But right now, in the US there is literally no funding mechanism for non commercial, large-scale broadcast journalism that is going to be anymore left-of-center or neutral or whatever than you think NPR is. And as noted above, there seems to be no interest in the commercial space either.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 10:12 AM on October 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
Politics aside, NPR treats their listeners like idiots.
For me it was that little laugh that NPR correspondents would give under their breath when asked a basic question about how the Trump administration was responding to or handling some event. That little laugh was the signal that the correspondents knew the question couldn't be answered because the administration was a dumpster fire that couldn't do anything and that the correspondent was about to bullshit something about Trump being "unconventional" or "combative". Instead of actually pointing out how inept the administration was, NPR chose to be that dog in the room on fire saying "this is fine".
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:26 AM on October 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
For me it was that little laugh that NPR correspondents would give under their breath when asked a basic question about how the Trump administration was responding to or handling some event. That little laugh was the signal that the correspondents knew the question couldn't be answered because the administration was a dumpster fire that couldn't do anything and that the correspondent was about to bullshit something about Trump being "unconventional" or "combative". Instead of actually pointing out how inept the administration was, NPR chose to be that dog in the room on fire saying "this is fine".
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:26 AM on October 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
It's frustrating that virtually no media outlet has a nuanced view on the war in Ukraine which to me would include the reality that NATO did advance towards Russia's borders despite assurances in the 90s that it would not do so while also stating, in no uncertain terms, that it's still wrong and immoral to invade another country as Russia did.
To me those are small potatoes compared to almost all American media completely ignoring that the United States had and has an explicit obligation to defend Ukraine's original borders independent of any NATO(ish) agreement or promises. This is the second time the US has reneged on the explicit security assurances they made to guarantee Ukraine's borders that led Ukraine to surrender the nuclear weapons it had after the breakup of the USSR.
But I guess it is hard for American networks to say "America we're number ....don't trust our word because it's garbage"
posted by srboisvert at 1:52 PM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
To me those are small potatoes compared to almost all American media completely ignoring that the United States had and has an explicit obligation to defend Ukraine's original borders independent of any NATO(ish) agreement or promises. This is the second time the US has reneged on the explicit security assurances they made to guarantee Ukraine's borders that led Ukraine to surrender the nuclear weapons it had after the breakup of the USSR.
But I guess it is hard for American networks to say "America we're number ....don't trust our word because it's garbage"
posted by srboisvert at 1:52 PM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's kinda nuts to suggest America has had some stealth military alliance with Ukraine all this time, and we're now reneging on our obligations. Are you talking about the Budapest Memorandum, or what?
posted by ryanrs at 3:47 PM on October 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 3:47 PM on October 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Budapest Memorandum
It's nine sentences long. I've seen longer legal documents printed on the back of a receipt. If there's an explicit promise of US military defense in there, go ahead and quote it, please.
posted by ryanrs at 4:04 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's nine sentences long. I've seen longer legal documents printed on the back of a receipt. If there's an explicit promise of US military defense in there, go ahead and quote it, please.
posted by ryanrs at 4:04 PM on October 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here's a better link
More than once, this short document mentions 'commitment to Ukraine'. This includes:
commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression
Certainly Ukraine has become a victim of an act of aggression. You can argue that NATO nations took action to provide assistance to Ukraine outside of the UN Security Council but that sounds like quibbling to me.
posted by eye of newt at 10:56 AM on October 7, 2022
More than once, this short document mentions 'commitment to Ukraine'. This includes:
commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression
Certainly Ukraine has become a victim of an act of aggression. You can argue that NATO nations took action to provide assistance to Ukraine outside of the UN Security Council but that sounds like quibbling to me.
posted by eye of newt at 10:56 AM on October 7, 2022
That clause is pretty much irrelevant when the aggressor can veto any Security Council action.
posted by ryanrs at 11:22 AM on October 7, 2022
posted by ryanrs at 11:22 AM on October 7, 2022
I wanted to pop in and update on Democracy Now. Switching to its daily podcast every time NPR goes into something banal has given me more opportunities to sample, and it is worth keeping in rotation.
Unlike NPR which I can treat as primary content (I'm actively paying attention or doing little else) it makes better background so that when they do go very deep into something like the Right Livelihood Award for fifteen minutes I can tune in and out before I lose patience.
They still need tighter editing, but I apologize for my unnecessarily hot take.
posted by abulafa at 8:25 AM on October 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Unlike NPR which I can treat as primary content (I'm actively paying attention or doing little else) it makes better background so that when they do go very deep into something like the Right Livelihood Award for fifteen minutes I can tune in and out before I lose patience.
They still need tighter editing, but I apologize for my unnecessarily hot take.
posted by abulafa at 8:25 AM on October 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
one will bring up a surprising fact and the second pretends to be surprised - "Wait, what?" (It's almost always "Wait, what?") They know what - it's what the show is about. The story is scripted - the co-host is aware of the twist.
This is their milquetoast attempt to emulate This American Life.
That show started this "wait, what?" conversational tic, inserting credulousness and naturalism to make a conversation more interesting. It was groundbreaking at the time.
But This American Life isn't so hamfisted about it. Their conversations overall have a more natural rhythm, rather than the couple stock phrases that NPR over-uses to dress up a stilted conversation.
posted by ishmael at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
This is their milquetoast attempt to emulate This American Life.
That show started this "wait, what?" conversational tic, inserting credulousness and naturalism to make a conversation more interesting. It was groundbreaking at the time.
But This American Life isn't so hamfisted about it. Their conversations overall have a more natural rhythm, rather than the couple stock phrases that NPR over-uses to dress up a stilted conversation.
posted by ishmael at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
"Wait, What...Please Tell Me!"
posted by rhizome at 5:08 PM on October 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 5:08 PM on October 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
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Let's ask our panelists this week: Hari Kondabolu, Dulcé Sloan and Tom Papa.
posted by not_on_display at 12:28 AM on October 5, 2022 [9 favorites]