Overview effect
December 24, 2022 10:38 AM Subscribe
"I thought I would experience a deep connection with the immensity around us, a deep call for endless exploration. I was absolutely wrong. The strongest feeling, that dominated everything else by far, was the deepest grief that I had ever experienced." .. "I had to get to space to understand that Earth is and will stay our only home. And that we have been ravaging it, relentlessly, making it uninhabitable." — William Shatner (NPR)
wow, this is profoundly moving. we absolutely must listen to this message. listen to the Captain! we have one home and we must save it or we are lost.
posted by supermedusa at 11:10 AM on December 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 11:10 AM on December 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I recently skimmed the climatefiction and KSR tags and saw a KSR interview with not-quite related comments on Aurora:
“Aurora” affronted some readers and sci-fi writers, as it was meant to; its goal was to shift the structure of feeling in science fiction, making it less escapist and more certain that Earth is our only home. “As soon as I read it, I thought, Of course, he’s right,” the science-fiction writer Ted Chiang told me. (The novel, he added, suggests that interstellar settlement is not just “impractical” but “immoral,” since it involves “condemning generations of one’s descendants to lifelong hardship when you cannot possibly get their consent.”)
..
“When I wrote ‘Aurora,’ I felt like I was taking a model of the Starship Enterprise and smashing it with a hammer,” [Robinson] said, laughing.
An older more optimistic take which still deflates the growth-cheerleaders and space-dick-capitalists nicely:
“No civilization can possibly survive to an interstellar spacefaring phase unless it limits its numbers” (and consumption) ― Carl Sagan
posted by jeffburdges at 11:42 AM on December 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
“Aurora” affronted some readers and sci-fi writers, as it was meant to; its goal was to shift the structure of feeling in science fiction, making it less escapist and more certain that Earth is our only home. “As soon as I read it, I thought, Of course, he’s right,” the science-fiction writer Ted Chiang told me. (The novel, he added, suggests that interstellar settlement is not just “impractical” but “immoral,” since it involves “condemning generations of one’s descendants to lifelong hardship when you cannot possibly get their consent.”)
..
“When I wrote ‘Aurora,’ I felt like I was taking a model of the Starship Enterprise and smashing it with a hammer,” [Robinson] said, laughing.
An older more optimistic take which still deflates the growth-cheerleaders and space-dick-capitalists nicely:
“No civilization can possibly survive to an interstellar spacefaring phase unless it limits its numbers” (and consumption) ― Carl Sagan
posted by jeffburdges at 11:42 AM on December 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
The moment we might have first heard a version of this was right after the ride: Shatner starts to speak and then Bezos cuts him off before he can share his impressions.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:44 AM on December 24, 2022 [42 favorites]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:44 AM on December 24, 2022 [42 favorites]
@Insert I was struck by that too. Shatner was clearly emotional; Bezos expected to simply get Captain Kirk quotes for his press event. Disgusting on Besos' part.
posted by scolbath at 12:06 PM on December 24, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by scolbath at 12:06 PM on December 24, 2022 [16 favorites]
And all it took for that realisation was to emit more carbon dioxide than most of the world's population will create in their entire lifetime.
75 tonnes per space tourist, just to go sub-orbital.
Maybe for his next world-shattering revelation he could just read the IPCC reports? Listen to climate scientists? Just pay attention?
posted by happyinmotion at 12:11 PM on December 24, 2022 [16 favorites]
75 tonnes per space tourist, just to go sub-orbital.
Maybe for his next world-shattering revelation he could just read the IPCC reports? Listen to climate scientists? Just pay attention?
posted by happyinmotion at 12:11 PM on December 24, 2022 [16 favorites]
Earth is my one and only.
posted by Oyéah at 12:26 PM on December 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 12:26 PM on December 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Space is cool for sure but it's also vast and bleakly unforgiving.
the older I get the more I realize how much we have left to do here on our own planet...
posted by djseafood at 12:29 PM on December 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
the older I get the more I realize how much we have left to do here on our own planet...
posted by djseafood at 12:29 PM on December 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Maybe for his next world-shattering revelation he could just read the IPCC reports? Listen to climate scientists? Just pay attention?
Human beings are not perfectly rational calculating machines. Eloquent, emotional individual testimony, especially from a high-profile, widely respected person, may have more impact than years of reports from scientific experts.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:59 PM on December 24, 2022 [76 favorites]
Human beings are not perfectly rational calculating machines. Eloquent, emotional individual testimony, especially from a high-profile, widely respected person, may have more impact than years of reports from scientific experts.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:59 PM on December 24, 2022 [76 favorites]
Maybe for his next world-shattering revelation he could just read the IPCC reports? Listen to climate scientists? Just pay attention?
So you're saying it would be better if even 75 tons of emissions had not sufficed? Or maybe that, having had his insight, Shatner should SFTU and keep it to himself?
Because the world where Shatner didn't spend those emissions is no longer one we can have, any more than we can have one where coal mining was never invented. It's not clear that you're aware of that.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 1:14 PM on December 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
So you're saying it would be better if even 75 tons of emissions had not sufficed? Or maybe that, having had his insight, Shatner should SFTU and keep it to himself?
Because the world where Shatner didn't spend those emissions is no longer one we can have, any more than we can have one where coal mining was never invented. It's not clear that you're aware of that.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 1:14 PM on December 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
Earth is and will stay our only home. And that we have been ravaging it, relentlessly, making it uninhabitable.
No shit, Sherlock.
And yet, as infuriating as it is that it's taken Bojack Shatner ninety fucking years to pull his head far enough out of his own arse to see what it's been sitting on this whole time, I'm glad he finally has.
The man has many fans, and a few more of those might now come to pay a little more attention to the foolishness of cannibalising Life Support for spare parts.
posted by flabdablet at 1:42 PM on December 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
No shit, Sherlock.
And yet, as infuriating as it is that it's taken Bojack Shatner ninety fucking years to pull his head far enough out of his own arse to see what it's been sitting on this whole time, I'm glad he finally has.
The man has many fans, and a few more of those might now come to pay a little more attention to the foolishness of cannibalising Life Support for spare parts.
posted by flabdablet at 1:42 PM on December 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
And all it took for that realisation was to emit more carbon dioxide than most of the world's population will create in their entire lifetime.
75 tonnes per space tourist, just to go sub-orbital.
Maybe for his next world-shattering revelation he could just read the IPCC reports? Listen to climate scientists? Just pay attention?
Hi, earth scientist here. This take sucks, please find a better one. Someone actually had a profound change of heart and wants to help? Let them help. LET THEM HELP. FOR GOD'S SAKE JUST LET THEM HELP.
Look, I know I'm coming on strong here. But this attitude drives me up the damn wall. The biosphere does not have time for holier than thou nitpicking every time someone finally comes around to lend a hand.
posted by cubeb at 1:52 PM on December 24, 2022 [182 favorites]
75 tonnes per space tourist, just to go sub-orbital.
Maybe for his next world-shattering revelation he could just read the IPCC reports? Listen to climate scientists? Just pay attention?
Hi, earth scientist here. This take sucks, please find a better one. Someone actually had a profound change of heart and wants to help? Let them help. LET THEM HELP. FOR GOD'S SAKE JUST LET THEM HELP.
Look, I know I'm coming on strong here. But this attitude drives me up the damn wall. The biosphere does not have time for holier than thou nitpicking every time someone finally comes around to lend a hand.
posted by cubeb at 1:52 PM on December 24, 2022 [182 favorites]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
posted by supermedusa at 1:55 PM on December 24, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 1:55 PM on December 24, 2022 [16 favorites]
We're destroying our plant in like eight other serious ways besides climate change, most of which we understand less well, and some of which could represent worse existential threats.
I'd think Bezos knows when someone looks unpredictable, Insert.. & scolbath, but also Shatner says it took him a while to process this, so not exactly clear what he'd have stumbled out at that moment. At least this version sends the right message clearly.
We'll see how often Shatner repeats this beyond his book and this NPR interview, but Bezos' PR move of paying Shatner's flight could majorly backfire here: If social media makes his revelation the primary viral promotion his book, then his books success conflicts with space-dick-tourisms success. LOL
I think 75 tons resembles the CO2 from 101 London-NYC coach flights, like which emit 0.67 tonnes per passenger. Average passenger cars have 22mpg and emit 404g of CO2 per mile, so this resembles driving 167k miles. About as bad as driving two cars for their whole lifecycle. It needs to be stopped for being so crazily wasteful, but flying, driving, meat eating, etc all must be stopped for being wasteful too.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:05 PM on December 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
I'd think Bezos knows when someone looks unpredictable, Insert.. & scolbath, but also Shatner says it took him a while to process this, so not exactly clear what he'd have stumbled out at that moment. At least this version sends the right message clearly.
We'll see how often Shatner repeats this beyond his book and this NPR interview, but Bezos' PR move of paying Shatner's flight could majorly backfire here: If social media makes his revelation the primary viral promotion his book, then his books success conflicts with space-dick-tourisms success. LOL
I think 75 tons resembles the CO2 from 101 London-NYC coach flights, like which emit 0.67 tonnes per passenger. Average passenger cars have 22mpg and emit 404g of CO2 per mile, so this resembles driving 167k miles. About as bad as driving two cars for their whole lifecycle. It needs to be stopped for being so crazily wasteful, but flying, driving, meat eating, etc all must be stopped for being wasteful too.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:05 PM on December 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
Reminds me of watching "For All Mankind," a show which (to me) did a great job showing space exploration as basically sucking. It's boring, except when it's exciting, and the exciting bits kill you. Like, it's nominally an aspirational show but I found it pretty bleak.
posted by BungaDunga at 2:11 PM on December 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 2:11 PM on December 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Anybody know if/how Amazon censors book reviews? It'd be hilarious if everyone who sees Shatner's listing on Amazon sees this quote.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:32 PM on December 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 2:32 PM on December 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
We are never leaving our solar system alive, but humanity does need to have a serious conversation about whether attempting to establish permanent colonies on the Moon or Mars is going to be worth the unfathomable cost to even attempt doing it.
posted by Beholder at 2:48 PM on December 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Beholder at 2:48 PM on December 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: holier than thou nitpicking every time someone finally comes around to lend a hand
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 3:36 PM on December 24, 2022 [35 favorites]
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 3:36 PM on December 24, 2022 [35 favorites]
Gentle Arms of Eden is a 20 year old hymn to a lot of the same thoughts and feelings.
posted by weston at 3:53 PM on December 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by weston at 3:53 PM on December 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I saw this story shortly after the book release, and it made me think of this classic ZenPencils comic quoting Edgar Mitchell
And I think - man, what if we sent all these narcissists into space to "re-orient themselves" (in a very fundamental sense).
But then I think about Bezos was up there, and he clearly doesn't seem to get it. Tweetboy won't even go to space but he would love to send others to their ultimate doom, and his cosmic perspective has been revealed to be so utterly vapid. And the big T, and I don't think anything would unfuck that man's brain.
But still... I wish there was some way to sink it in. We can see at least 2 of our fellow beings who've made the journey have been able to get past their egos...
The other option if this doesn't work out is Dead Kennedy's "One Way Ticket to Pluto"
posted by symbioid at 5:48 PM on December 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
And I think - man, what if we sent all these narcissists into space to "re-orient themselves" (in a very fundamental sense).
But then I think about Bezos was up there, and he clearly doesn't seem to get it. Tweetboy won't even go to space but he would love to send others to their ultimate doom, and his cosmic perspective has been revealed to be so utterly vapid. And the big T, and I don't think anything would unfuck that man's brain.
But still... I wish there was some way to sink it in. We can see at least 2 of our fellow beings who've made the journey have been able to get past their egos...
The other option if this doesn't work out is Dead Kennedy's "One Way Ticket to Pluto"
posted by symbioid at 5:48 PM on December 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
So Jeff Bezos went to space, and didn’t get the overview effect? Or does the effect fade away?
Imagine if he had the same revelation, and held onto it. But then perhaps we’d be imagining someone who wouldn’t be what he is.
posted by myelin sheath at 6:21 PM on December 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Imagine if he had the same revelation, and held onto it. But then perhaps we’d be imagining someone who wouldn’t be what he is.
posted by myelin sheath at 6:21 PM on December 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
But then perhaps we’d be imagining someone who wouldn’t be what he is.
Yeah, people who aren't sociopaths don't become billionaires.
posted by Ickster at 7:02 PM on December 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
Yeah, people who aren't sociopaths don't become billionaires.
posted by Ickster at 7:02 PM on December 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
I am all for extensive robotic probing of the solar system, lots of high quality space telescopes, an orbiting space station, and as much protection from comets and asteroids as we can manage. I do want to know what is out there, and protect ourselves from the bad bits.
But just don't see any prospect of us ever going to visit much of it in person, beyond some pointlessly expensive trips around the local neighbourhood (Moon, Mars, Venus).
Humans are of this earth, and we shall end our days on it. We are going nowhere much further than the equivalent of sticking the tip of our little finger into space long enough to realise that it isn't for us.
Sooner we accept that, sooner we will get busy keeping this place as habitable as possible for the duration, at least several hundred million years.
posted by Pouteria at 7:19 PM on December 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
But just don't see any prospect of us ever going to visit much of it in person, beyond some pointlessly expensive trips around the local neighbourhood (Moon, Mars, Venus).
Humans are of this earth, and we shall end our days on it. We are going nowhere much further than the equivalent of sticking the tip of our little finger into space long enough to realise that it isn't for us.
Sooner we accept that, sooner we will get busy keeping this place as habitable as possible for the duration, at least several hundred million years.
posted by Pouteria at 7:19 PM on December 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
We'll see how often Shatner repeats this beyond his book and this NPR interview
For fandom reasons not worth getting into, I can tell you he's been on this ever since he got back (but fwiw he's been actively workshopping his book's narrative as well - this isn't a ding to me, i write and i know you can't help yourself, co-writers or not), so i do note he's been very clearly affected. You can compare his pre-flight interviews and after, it's quite stark.
(Of course then one makes the mistake of watching convention panels and he's involved in some production company that is also shilling NFTs)
But I've been appreciating this insight, it's really quite genuine (and if you want to believe him, at other avenues he's been known to say he's quite affected by the subject ever since he read Silent Spring decades ago).
posted by cendawanita at 10:49 PM on December 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
For fandom reasons not worth getting into, I can tell you he's been on this ever since he got back (but fwiw he's been actively workshopping his book's narrative as well - this isn't a ding to me, i write and i know you can't help yourself, co-writers or not), so i do note he's been very clearly affected. You can compare his pre-flight interviews and after, it's quite stark.
(Of course then one makes the mistake of watching convention panels and he's involved in some production company that is also shilling NFTs)
But I've been appreciating this insight, it's really quite genuine (and if you want to believe him, at other avenues he's been known to say he's quite affected by the subject ever since he read Silent Spring decades ago).
posted by cendawanita at 10:49 PM on December 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
Yeah, people who aren't sociopaths don't become billionaires.
You can really see this with his ex-wife. When she got her half of the money she almost immediately dumped it to charity like it was radioactive.
posted by srboisvert at 11:53 PM on December 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
You can really see this with his ex-wife. When she got her half of the money she almost immediately dumped it to charity like it was radioactive.
posted by srboisvert at 11:53 PM on December 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
I forget the woman from NASA who said it but "Earth is the best Planet" as in, if you can't make a viable sustainable human settlement on earth, no way you can manage one elsewhere. Indeed underwater colonies, antartic cities, cities on boats,cities on airships and undergrouund: these impractical things that are 10,000s times easier than colonizing the moon or mars or venus.
Biosphere II was an interesting and incomplete experiment that failed to be sustainable. And it had a billionaire and earth to support it.
Earth, earth is what we need to protect, to clean up or mess, to take our boot off its neck.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 12:01 AM on December 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
Biosphere II was an interesting and incomplete experiment that failed to be sustainable. And it had a billionaire and earth to support it.
Earth, earth is what we need to protect, to clean up or mess, to take our boot off its neck.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 12:01 AM on December 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
The novel, he added, suggests that interstellar settlement is not just “impractical” but “immoral,” since it involves “condemning generations of one’s descendants to lifelong hardship when you cannot possibly get their consent.”
This is an interesting take, but also suggests continuing climate change is immoral for exactly the same reason, as is continuing capitalism. By this logic, anything short of revolution is immoral.
I like it.
posted by Dysk at 12:27 AM on December 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
This is an interesting take, but also suggests continuing climate change is immoral for exactly the same reason, as is continuing capitalism. By this logic, anything short of revolution is immoral.
I like it.
posted by Dysk at 12:27 AM on December 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
look down
posted by flabdablet at 2:34 AM on December 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 2:34 AM on December 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Biosphere II was an interesting and incomplete experiment that failed to be sustainable. And it had a billionaire and earth to support it.
Biosphere II was thirty years ago. For a more up-to-date picture of where bioregenerative life support systems are these days, check out China's Lunar Palace One, who did a successful 370-day stay in a sealed environment a few years back.
For more Biosphere 2 fun, though, you should really check out how Steve Bannon was involved in the project. In case you were wondering how the whole thing turned into a farce.
Biosphere II was thirty years ago. For a more up-to-date picture of where bioregenerative life support systems are these days, check out China's Lunar Palace One, who did a successful 370-day stay in a sealed environment a few years back.
For more Biosphere 2 fun, though, you should really check out how Steve Bannon was involved in the project. In case you were wondering how the whole thing turned into a farce.
"A lot of the scientists who are studying global change and studying the effects of greenhouse gases, many of them feel that the Earth's atmosphere in 100 years is what Biosphere 2's atmosphere is today. We have extraordinarily high CO2, we have very high nitrous oxide, we have high methane. And we have lower oxygen content. So the power of this place is allowing those scientists who are really involved in the study of global change, and which, in the outside world or Biosphere 1, really have to work with just computer simulation, this actually allows them to study and monitor the impact of enhanced CO2 and other greenhouse gases on humans, plants, and animals."posted by MrVisible at 6:41 AM on December 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Biosphere II is what taught me how concrete really works. The concrete used in its construction was continuously sucking CO2 out of the sealed atmosphere. This is because concrete works, as a material, via a huge amount of energy input to drive CO2 out of calcium carbonate (CaCO3), leaving calcium oxide (CaO), also known as quicklime. "Quick" in the archaic sense of "alive". It has high chemical potential energy. Mixing the CaO with water gets you calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2), which is also very reactive. That stuff, mixed with the right set of binding materials (which require chemical properties more complex than can be described briefly, concrete is surprisingly complicated!) is the engine of the chemical reactions that cause the concrete to become a mass of chemically and physically interlocked material.
The process that drives that engine is reabsorbing CO2. That converts the Ca(OH)2 back into CaCO3, while liberating H2O. And that process takes a very long time, it proceeds asymptotically for decades. The concrete in Hoover Dam is still absorbing CO2.
This should also be kept in mind whenever people tout concrete as a CO2 absorber! Every molecule of CO2 that the concrete absorbs is a molecule that had been driven out into the atmosphere during its manufacture. Plus the enormous amounts of CO2 generated by burning fossil fuels to power the massive heat and chemical energy requirements of the reaction.
I believe some research is being done to try to power the reaction as much as possible with non-fossil energy sources... but the amount of energy, and more importantly, energy density, is so daunting that it is unlikely to ever become competitive to do so. When you see the global energy budget, and how much of it is spent just making concrete, you may begin to understand how incredibly useful concrete is... useful enough that we pay staggering energy costs to create it.
To come back to the topic at hand... the "concrete cycle" is just one of the many cycles in the self-contained system of Earth, that humanity has consciously (or arguably, up until recently, unconsciously) used to alter the properties of the system as a whole. "Just stop using concrete" is harder than it seems, because of how useful it is. If humans still want to build stuff, they're going to want to use it! Getting Earth back to a sustainable system probably does require eliminating concrete, which means we we would have to make do with building a lot less stuff. That's going to be a tough sell.
posted by notoriety public at 8:04 AM on December 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
The process that drives that engine is reabsorbing CO2. That converts the Ca(OH)2 back into CaCO3, while liberating H2O. And that process takes a very long time, it proceeds asymptotically for decades. The concrete in Hoover Dam is still absorbing CO2.
This should also be kept in mind whenever people tout concrete as a CO2 absorber! Every molecule of CO2 that the concrete absorbs is a molecule that had been driven out into the atmosphere during its manufacture. Plus the enormous amounts of CO2 generated by burning fossil fuels to power the massive heat and chemical energy requirements of the reaction.
I believe some research is being done to try to power the reaction as much as possible with non-fossil energy sources... but the amount of energy, and more importantly, energy density, is so daunting that it is unlikely to ever become competitive to do so. When you see the global energy budget, and how much of it is spent just making concrete, you may begin to understand how incredibly useful concrete is... useful enough that we pay staggering energy costs to create it.
To come back to the topic at hand... the "concrete cycle" is just one of the many cycles in the self-contained system of Earth, that humanity has consciously (or arguably, up until recently, unconsciously) used to alter the properties of the system as a whole. "Just stop using concrete" is harder than it seems, because of how useful it is. If humans still want to build stuff, they're going to want to use it! Getting Earth back to a sustainable system probably does require eliminating concrete, which means we we would have to make do with building a lot less stuff. That's going to be a tough sell.
posted by notoriety public at 8:04 AM on December 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
“Just stop using concrete"
Don’t see that one happening soon: “Concrete is the second-most-used substance in the world after water, and is the most widely used building material. Its usage worldwide, ton for ton, is twice that of steel, wood, plastics, and aluminum combined.”
posted by LooseFilter at 8:19 AM on December 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Don’t see that one happening soon: “Concrete is the second-most-used substance in the world after water, and is the most widely used building material. Its usage worldwide, ton for ton, is twice that of steel, wood, plastics, and aluminum combined.”
posted by LooseFilter at 8:19 AM on December 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Hey Happy Motion, not defending Jeff Bezos but I thought the rocket fuel used was nonpolluting liquid hydrogen.
posted by Narrative_Historian at 3:52 PM on December 25, 2022
posted by Narrative_Historian at 3:52 PM on December 25, 2022
> rocket fuel used was nonpolluting liquid hydrogen.
what was the energy required to manufacture and liquify the H2 come from?
where did the H2 itself it come from?
(hint: it wasn't from solar-powered electrolysis of water)
posted by lalochezia at 4:49 PM on December 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
what was the energy required to manufacture and liquify the H2 come from?
where did the H2 itself it come from?
(hint: it wasn't from solar-powered electrolysis of water)
posted by lalochezia at 4:49 PM on December 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Naomi Klein offers an interesting take on this in This Changes Everything. She says looking at the whole Earth from space diminishes and distracts us. The view pushes us to neglect the small details of life which are crucial to, well, life. It zooms too far out.
posted by doctornemo at 6:46 AM on December 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by doctornemo at 6:46 AM on December 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
She says looking at the whole Earth from space diminishes and distracts us. The view pushes us to neglect the small details of life which are crucial to, well, life. It zooms too far out.
Eh... surely what we need is both the broad overview and the ability to look at details. We don't want to miss the forest for the trees, nor do we want to miss the trees for the forest.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:00 PM on December 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
Eh... surely what we need is both the broad overview and the ability to look at details. We don't want to miss the forest for the trees, nor do we want to miss the trees for the forest.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:00 PM on December 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I would have thought that seeing our little blue dot of an earth from afar adds to the picture, not detracts (or distracts) from it.
posted by Pouteria at 3:38 PM on December 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Pouteria at 3:38 PM on December 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, Naomi Klein is way off base there: These "pale blue dot" statements by Shatner, Sagan, etc. always emphasize how nowhere else is suitable and the fragility of life, and sometimes equal rights globally. The ones we choose to quote are informed by and support a more detailed view.
Around our choice to amplify..
We should not expect this reaction from someone disconnected from scientific and ecological realities, including say neo-classical economist like Krugman or Nordhaus, never mind libertarian fantasy guys like Bostrom.
Anything like this acts like a mirror for the "zoomed out" views you already hold. We'd correctly mock Musk mercilessly if say he concluded we need more skyscrapers because the layer of life on earth is so thin or whatever.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:41 PM on December 28, 2022
Around our choice to amplify..
We should not expect this reaction from someone disconnected from scientific and ecological realities, including say neo-classical economist like Krugman or Nordhaus, never mind libertarian fantasy guys like Bostrom.
Anything like this acts like a mirror for the "zoomed out" views you already hold. We'd correctly mock Musk mercilessly if say he concluded we need more skyscrapers because the layer of life on earth is so thin or whatever.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:41 PM on December 28, 2022
Not to derail on concrete, but i imperfectly remember it was concrete absorbing O2 and more organic matter decay than growth that was hypothesized as the Biosphere II low O2 problem.
The heat needed to make clinker and lime from renewables is doable, the other 1/3 of CO2 from decomposition of the carbonate is unavoidable. That is the kind of thing worth doing offsets/sequestration. Its necessary not because of price but chemistry, the product it makes is durable and essential for infrastructure.
If "Competitive" remains our criterea for choosing whether to destroy or protect our planet, then we will great-filter ourselves our before we even manage to mess up a 2nd planet.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 2:26 AM on December 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
The heat needed to make clinker and lime from renewables is doable, the other 1/3 of CO2 from decomposition of the carbonate is unavoidable. That is the kind of thing worth doing offsets/sequestration. Its necessary not because of price but chemistry, the product it makes is durable and essential for infrastructure.
If "Competitive" remains our criterea for choosing whether to destroy or protect our planet, then we will great-filter ourselves our before we even manage to mess up a 2nd planet.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 2:26 AM on December 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Eh... surely what we need is both the broad overview and the ability to look at details. We don't want to miss the forest for the trees, nor do we want to miss the trees for the forest.
I agree, Artifice_Eternity.
These "pale blue dot" statements by Shatner, Sagan, etc. always emphasize how nowhere else is suitable and the fragility of life, and sometimes equal rights globally.
Agreed, jeffburdges.
I haven't been able to interview Klein on this yet, but it felt like the kind of thought that other folks would share.
posted by doctornemo at 2:26 PM on December 29, 2022
I agree, Artifice_Eternity.
These "pale blue dot" statements by Shatner, Sagan, etc. always emphasize how nowhere else is suitable and the fragility of life, and sometimes equal rights globally.
Agreed, jeffburdges.
I haven't been able to interview Klein on this yet, but it felt like the kind of thought that other folks would share.
posted by doctornemo at 2:26 PM on December 29, 2022
How to get the overview efffect on earth? A VR headset experience? A 10nhr youtube that is just 9hours 58 minutes of black void with a 2 minute easter egg of a slow pan accross a beuatiful earth?
Mountain climbing? Driving up to top of mount washington does it for some folks, but not enough.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 5:07 AM on December 30, 2022
Mountain climbing? Driving up to top of mount washington does it for some folks, but not enough.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 5:07 AM on December 30, 2022
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"Last year, I had a life-changing experience at 90 years old. I went to space, after decades of playing an iconic science-fiction character who was exploring the universe. I thought I would experience a deep connection with the immensity around us, a deep call for endless exploration."
"I was absolutely wrong. The strongest feeling, that dominated everything else by far, was the deepest grief that I had ever experienced."
"I understood, in the clearest possible way, that we were living on a tiny oasis of life, surrounded by an immensity of death. I didn’t see infinite possibilities of worlds to explore, of adventures to have, or living creatures to connect with. I saw the deepest darkness I could have ever imagined, contrasting so starkly with the welcoming warmth of our nurturing home planet."
"This was an immensely powerful awakening for me. It filled me with sadness. I realized that we had spent decades, if not centuries, being obsessed with looking away, with looking outside. I did my share in popularizing the idea that space was the final frontier. But I had to get to space to understand that Earth is and will stay our only home. And that we have been ravaging it, relentlessly, making it uninhabitable."
posted by jeffburdges at 10:46 AM on December 24, 2022 [79 favorites]