Lord Richards of Herstmonceux will carry the Sword of Spiritual Justice

May 2, 2023 10:04 AM

Meanwhile, on Normal Island, Charles the third is getting crowned this Sunday. The coronation for the billionaire King-to-be is funded by commoners. As popularity for the monarchy falls and protests are planned, various petitions have been rejected, and the mass swearing of an oath of allegiance has been raised. The Proclaimers have been dropped from the official soundtrack, though many more Scots have their own jovial song. And another Scot, Frankie Boyle, has [very NSFW] examined the monarchy over the ages. Americans don't care and their presidents are traditionally no-shows. [post title]
posted by Wordshore (177 comments total)

the mass swearing of an oath of allegiance has been raised.

Dear Chuckles: absolutely eat shit.
posted by Artw at 10:14 AM on May 2, 2023 [42 favorites]

I (an American) read The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett in college and didn't really think anything of the Scone of Stone (the, well, scone made out of stone that dwarf kings are crowned on) and then a few years later I learned about the Stone of Scone and definitely had a "Wait, what, that thing is real?" moment. Which it is, down to the "this thing might be a forgery!" plot line.

I'm still having to fact check various things about the coronation because, wow, there's a lot going on there.
posted by damayanti at 10:17 AM on May 2, 2023 [23 favorites]

Charles seems determined to turn the monarchy into a partisan element. Ideally, this would work where a loud minority really wants it and the majority doesn't really want it but doesn't want the bother of dealing with the loud minority's whining. Generationally this is absolutely what is going to happen - support for the monarchy is concentrated among older people who grew up with Liz, who had the good sense to mostly keep it quiet when she was being shitty, and younger Britons are mostly either unimpressed or actively antagonistic towards the monarchy.

The problem with this strategy is that it only works if the monarchy itself isn't annoying enough to make it worth the bother to the majority to remove, and Charles does not seem to understand that.
posted by mightygodking at 10:19 AM on May 2, 2023 [11 favorites]

Well, I'd set aside that Frankie Boyle piece to post later today, so I'll just say that it's really really bitter and harsh and funny in all the right ways if you are an anti-monarchist.
posted by hippybear at 10:22 AM on May 2, 2023 [10 favorites]

I remember having to explain to a European that, as a British person, having an opinion about the royal family is like hating a colour. You might not like teal, you might not want teal in your house, but somewhere out there is going to be a bunch of teal stuff and you’ll just have to live with it. Except, of course, all your money has teal on it, you have to pay taxes to keep the teal’s latest children happy, and your neighbours love teal so much they have a series of special teal plates in a display cupboard.
posted by The River Ivel at 10:23 AM on May 2, 2023 [31 favorites]

This sort of pomp and/or circumstance is only justifiable when there are changes. Graduation ceremonies are reasonable, because lives are changing. Weddings are a big deal because they're a change. Baby showers, etc. But the whole point of the modern monarchy is supposed to be continuity -- "The king is dead, long live the king" and so forth.

You want me to get hyped about a change in the figurehead? Have the new guy forgive a bunch of debts for poor people. Hand out a winter coat to every schoolkid. Declare all marriages void if either person wants to, no questions asked. Otherwise, you're just putting a big fancy hat full of stolen jewels on a functionally identical head and making everyone act like it's a much bigger deal than it's going to end up being.
posted by Etrigan at 10:23 AM on May 2, 2023 [25 favorites]

Central Banker to Britons: You’re Worse Off. Accept It.
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

I always adore Frankie Boyle's hilarious and insightful razor-sharp ruthlessness.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:37 AM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

The article about the oath of allegiance notes that the Archbishop of Canterbury will call on “all persons of goodwill in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of the other realms and the territories to make their homage, in heart and voice, to their undoubted King, defender of all”.

Franz, Duke of Bavaria: "Am I a joke to you?"
posted by dhens at 10:40 AM on May 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

Well, I'd set aside that Frankie Boyle piece to post later today, so I'll just say that it's really really bitter and harsh and funny in all the right ways if you are an anti-monarchist.

Before watching: "I wonder if Frankie will go there, with a reference to Prince Andrew?"

Within the first minute: "He went there."
posted by Wordshore at 10:46 AM on May 2, 2023 [9 favorites]

Generationally this is absolutely what is going to happen - support for the monarchy is concentrated among older people who grew up with Liz, who had the good sense to mostly keep it quiet when she was being shitty ...

It has occurred to me that the next likable heir to the throne is George, who will probably have done something tone-deaf and awful before he ascends in what will probably be middle age or later. Will the people put up with the monarchy for that long? Or what would it look like if they didn't?

I dreamed that I was watching a broadcast from the future in which Louis, dressed up in the ribbon and sash and all, was announcing his abdication as the "last king of England." He looked like he was being held in a little room after having been shot at. Probably that would be how the end of the monarchy went, if it ever did.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:49 AM on May 2, 2023

I'd enjoy it if we stopped calling them monarchs and started calling them state-sponsored kleptocrat oligarch slumlords, which is a more accurate description.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:51 AM on May 2, 2023 [23 favorites]

then a few years later I learned about the Stone of Scone and definitely had a "Wait, what, that thing is real?" moment.

I, too, had this experience
posted by Going To Maine at 11:02 AM on May 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

Speaking as a citizen of Canada, my attitude towards the monarchy is somewhere between "don't care" and "actively hostile" but years ago I organized a library program about the history of royal visits to Canada (hosted by an outside speaker) and I learned that the people in Canada who do care about the monarchy care more about it than most people care about anything.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:06 AM on May 2, 2023 [32 favorites]

The coronation's now close enough for these anti-monarchist posters to have appeared in central London's Soho district (Twitter link). They're massive too - about four feet from top to bottom, I'd say.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:12 AM on May 2, 2023 [6 favorites]

People outside the UK who care about the monarchy are special weird, yes.

Always strange running into Americans who care. Didn’t you guys fight a war to get away from this?
posted by Artw at 11:12 AM on May 2, 2023 [12 favorites]

Lord Richards of Herstmonceux will carry the Sword of Spiritual Justice

.. and I'm sure Keith's really looking forward to it.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:14 AM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

I do a lot of antiquing. Wherever I go -- high end places to thrift stores, there is always, always commemorative stuff from Chuck & Di's wedding. And it is never not creepy. It's creepy knowing what came after, and it's creepy for being blatant propaganda.

I am getting so. many. ads. for Chuck's coronation stuff, and it's also totally creepy. Not as creepy, but give it twenty years.

As for Coronation Day, I have other plans.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:16 AM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

If anyone's interested, Republic UK is planning a demonstration for Saturday - Trafalgar Square, 9am, estimated that ~1000 of us will be there. Maybe see you there?

(They're using the slogan "Not My King," but I really thought "Chuck Chuck" would have been snappier...)
posted by nightcoast at 11:16 AM on May 2, 2023 [11 favorites]

OMG can someone give me more context for the 'shove the coronation up your ass' chant?? I am in love.
posted by latkes at 11:17 AM on May 2, 2023

(If I had to start over, I would totally collect Chuck & Di royal wedding shit, and have a special room in my house to creep everyone the fuck out.)
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:18 AM on May 2, 2023 [6 favorites]

(They're using the slogan "Not My King," but I really thought "Chuck Chuck" would have been snappier...)

Wait, didn't you guys invent the word "fuck"? Did you run out of them?
posted by loquacious at 11:19 AM on May 2, 2023 [12 favorites]

If you have Kanopy for streaming, you can watch the 2017 film King Charles III, which was a play first, and is written is pseudo-shakespearean language. I remember being quite entertained.
posted by hippybear at 11:22 AM on May 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

So, I was born shortly into the start of John Paul II's papacy, so he was the only pope I had as a point of reference for the first half of my life. He really downplayed the inherent absurdity of the position (excluding I suppose the popemobile which was at least endearingly absurd), so it was weird when I'd hear stories about people being wary of voting for JFK because of his allegiance to the Pope. But then Benedict took over and he was a traditionalist, meaning he embraced a lot of the papal stuff that was really weird and off-putting, at least to a modern outsider like me.

Anyway, feels like the same dynamic with the succession from Elizabeth to Charles.
posted by ckape at 11:28 AM on May 2, 2023 [10 favorites]

"...you can watch the 2017 film King Charles III, which was a play first..."

There was an interview with the star, Tim Pigott-Smith, at the time of the play. He described being told by the palace through various sources that there was an error with his performance, namely that he wore a wedding ring (which the Prince of Wales does not do for [reasons]). And he described it not as a message of constructive criticism, but rather a message of "We are watching you".
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:34 AM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

My Very Monarchist in-laws, the kind that subscribe to magazines about royalty and collect royalist bumpf, are visiting this weekend. I'm hoping they don't want us all to go downtown for the sad little one-hour Ottawa Canadian coronation ceremony. I know that at the very least I will not get out of having to watch it on teevee.
posted by fimbulvetr at 11:35 AM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

I absolutely hate everything the Monarchy represents but I will absolutely watch the fuck out of the coronation b/c its kind of a zoo-like atmosphere and I'm mostly just watching to see something stupid/memes. But, I'll be very happy if the monarchy someday just collapses unto itself and disappears forever. That family has caused so much harm in the world. Fuck them.
posted by Fizz at 11:38 AM on May 2, 2023 [7 favorites]

Everything I know about the Stone of Scone I learned from watching the Highlander TV show. Namely, I learned it was stolen by a group of Scottish immortals and replaced with a fake, with the actual stone serving as a nondescript bench on a random Scottish golf course.
posted by ckape at 11:40 AM on May 2, 2023 [19 favorites]

OMG can someone give me more context for the 'shove the coronation up your ass' chant?? I am in love.

Football chants have a long history, so the crowd are used to picking up a song and carrying it round the stadium. Celtic fans singing a republican chant, specifically, is related to the history of Irish politics, religion, and sectarianism in the West of Scotland. This is, of course, a very sensitive topic.

Oh, and it's pronounced arse.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 11:42 AM on May 2, 2023 [13 favorites]

It’s from Hamlet where Polonius gets stabbed through the arras.
posted by Artw at 11:45 AM on May 2, 2023 [8 favorites]

It might be fun to watch the crowning of the last king of england.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:50 AM on May 2, 2023 [7 favorites]

TIL the suffragettes bombed the Coronation Chair, fracturing the Stone of Scone.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:52 AM on May 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

It mght be fun to watch the crowning of the last king of england.

I won't be watching it, though if "OMG that wasn't supposed to happen!" messages start popping up on social media, then I'll quickly turn it on.

During the oath part, I do have a piece of music lined up to play on the stereo, speakers facing out of the open windows, if I hear anyone utter their pledge nonsense.
posted by Wordshore at 11:55 AM on May 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

There is a bit of a feeling that I as an American could watch this as more of A Thing Going On, while actually being in the UK the stakes would feel higher. I don't know how I'd feel if I were British.
posted by hippybear at 11:58 AM on May 2, 2023

Always strange running into Americans who care. Didn’t you guys fight a war to get away from this?

I do and don't care. It's fascinating because it's History, and it's disgusting because [insert ten thousand reasons here] and also it's History, which I have learned is generally no fun to watch up close.

People used to say that the Kennedys are our royal family, which maybe they were at one point, but the shine wore off after Ted died, and largely before. The most prominent Kennedy is now RFK Jr., also an easily led bonehead with no business in politics, but even the government of Massachusetts doesn't act like he deserves a parade and a crown.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:02 PM on May 2, 2023

Here is some recent UK polling. The monarchy is actually pretty popular (and so is King Charles).
posted by kickingtheground at 12:07 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

Today I learned about the British fuck shortage.
posted by y2karl at 12:22 PM on May 2, 2023 [13 favorites]

The most prominent Kennedy is now RFK Jr., also an easily led bonehead with no business in politics

Joseph Kennedy III (RFK's grandson) was an up-and-coming member of congress, but for whatever reason he decided to rush things and challenge the incumbent senator Ed Markey in the Democratic primary.....from the right.

Fun fact: He's the first Kennedy ever to lose an election in Massachusetts!
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:23 PM on May 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

I hope some day someone will love me as much as the Scots hate the monarchy.
posted by Silvery Fish at 12:26 PM on May 2, 2023 [15 favorites]

If anyone's interested, Republic UK is planning a demonstration for Saturday - Trafalgar Square, 9am, estimated that ~1000 of us will be there. Maybe see you there?

No thanks, I'm a member of CAMRA and being a member of one group of anoraks is enough for me.

More seriously, I've always thought that the greatest protection the British royal family has is the hilariously unappealing and inept people who have strong feelings against. It's like every Methodist schoolmaster who wants to warn His Boys against Strong Drink has merged with a stamp collecting society. There's nothing like a conversation with a republican to make me (not a monarchist at all) want to make fierce, solemn pledges of allegiance to His Majesty.

Fun fact: giving everyone the chance to do the allegiance oath is meant to make the ceremony more inclusive and the reaction against it shows how many people who would describe themselves as monarchists and who will be watching every minute of the ceremony don't understand the purpose of all those people being invited.

Historically, those people are there to swear their allegiance in person. Of course we live in a fully bourgeois society now and they haven't invited Ant and Dec to make solemn binding oaths of loyalty on the basis that it might prevent them leading an army against Winchester but that is the fundamental nature of what an invite to the ceremony means for a British subject - you are here to affirm your loyalty in person.

So people who would kill to be important enough for an invite, when invited to participate in the actual meaningful element for the invited, but shorn of the pomp, are suddenly left looking at the substance of the act and feeling slightly uncomfortable.

Central Banker to Britons: You’re Worse Off. Accept It.

Central bankers should know better than to speak so bluntly, and when I'm on the MPC you won't catch me stepping on my dick that way but fundamentally that is a correct analysis of what Brexit and the Ukraine war have done to the UK's terms of trade. Made the country fundamentally poorer. As long as you try and bid up prices in order to cling to a previous standard of living, you will have inflation.
posted by atrazine at 12:31 PM on May 2, 2023 [8 favorites]

You know, I could take or leave Charles personally, but I love history and historical artifacts and rituals, and so I'm going to watch the Coronation, because it is one of the oldest rituals in the Western world still practiced: Charles will be crowned using a order of service that in some form was used to crown his distant ancestor Edgar, King of the Anglo-Saxons in 973 AD. Not only that, but that order of service drew on rituals used by the Frankish kings going back a further four hundred years, to the sixth century. So on Saturday, we're going to see a ritual with elements that have been in use for almost 1500 years. I find that fascinating.
posted by fortitude25 at 12:33 PM on May 2, 2023 [27 favorites]

Speaking as a citizen of Canada, my attitude towards the monarchy is somewhere between "don't care" and "actively hostile" but years ago I organized a library program about the history of royal visits to Canada (hosted by an outside speaker) and I learned that the people in Canada who do care about the monarchy care more about it than most people care about anything.

One of my favourite things was the pearl-clutching amongst our monarchist societies here in Canada that were distraught that the government didn't have any plans or hadn't them know the plans for Chuck's coronation. "But how will we prepare? How do we let the new monarch know we support him?" I was like, "Jesus christ, we're all trying to keep our heads above water to pay our bills so who gives a fuck."
posted by Kitteh at 12:37 PM on May 2, 2023 [7 favorites]

And they still smell of poo.
posted by biffa at 12:37 PM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

During the oath part, I do have a piece of music lined up

Me too!
posted by Paul Slade at 12:38 PM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

Before watching: "I wonder if Frankie will go there, with a reference to Prince Andrew?"
Within the first minute: "He went there."

And again about nine and a half minutes in. And again, gloriously, at just over 22 minutes. And in passing at 27, 36, and 38 minutes. And again at 45 minutes.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:39 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

On shoving it up your arse: it’s a good common chant form and tune! You will enjoy learning the trad song version ‘Ye cannae shove yer granny aff a bus’ (and yes it is the same as ‘She’ll be coming round the mountain’, effectively).
posted by lokta at 12:40 PM on May 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

Always strange running into Americans who care. Didn’t you guys fight a war to get away from this?

Look, inaugurations are well and good but they don’t have “Swords of Spiritual Justice”. And LOTR was just rereleased in theaters.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:43 PM on May 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

Keep an eye out for Nick Cave at the coronation.
posted by robself at 12:47 PM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

Here is some recent UK polling. The monarchy is actually pretty popular (and so is King Charles).
posted by kickingtheground at 12:07 PM on May 2 [+] [!]

Interesting! 60% support for the monarchy overall. Though age 18-24 is at 32% for monarchy vs. 44% for elected head of state... I wonder how much that will stick around as they get older.
posted by nightcoast at 12:49 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

then a few years later I learned about the Stone of Scone and definitely had a "Wait, what, that thing is real?" moment.

I, too, had this experience

I had it JUST NOW.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:54 PM on May 2, 2023 [7 favorites]

I'm a little disappointed that the Rhode Island PBS British Comedy Club emailed me to say that WSBE will be broadcasting the coronation live.

They could have just aired a Blackadder marathon instead.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:57 PM on May 2, 2023 [6 favorites]

then a few years later I learned about the Stone of Scone and definitely had a "Wait, what, that thing is real?" moment.

I, too, had this experience

I had it JUST NOW.

Wait 'til you all hear how that Scone is pronounced!
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:58 PM on May 2, 2023 [8 favorites]

Always strange running into Americans who care. Didn’t you guys fight a war to get away from this?

I'm with you, Artw, and have felt this way since I was a kid and saw tons of adults obsessing over Charles and Lady Die.

In the US, it seems like some weird mix of how our revolution wasn't a fully social revolution, plus diehard Anglophilia, modern celebrity worship, and some kind of twee-cozy fetish.
posted by doctornemo at 1:08 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

If PBS had the budget to make quality programming of their own, we wouldn't have had 50 years of BBC beamed into our houses daily.
posted by hippybear at 1:13 PM on May 2, 2023 [9 favorites]

I'm in Scotland and let's just say "monarch support at 60%" doesn't go for this country (it's under 40% here, with widespread support for republicanism).
posted by cstross at 1:40 PM on May 2, 2023 [12 favorites]

500 Miles is very much a "picked the big hit without listening to the rest of the album" choice.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:44 PM on May 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

Lady Die

You know, I don’t have much use for the British Royal Family, but I have sympathy for Diana. She was raised to be ignorant, pliable, and virginal, pushed into a marriage that anyone could see was a bad idea*, abused by her husband’s family, was about the only high profile person to stand up for people with AIDS, and then was hounded to death by the press. She was a useless rich woman, but she tried to do good in an oppressive system, and I don’t think she deserves to be mocked.

*One of my few sympathies for Charles is that he was also pushed into the same terrible marriage for stupid reasons, but he was also a grown-ass man and could have stopped the whole thing.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:44 PM on May 2, 2023 [25 favorites]

Sure, the Sword of Spiritual Justice, whatever, but let's get to the real inside baseball. Who's going to bear St. Gumberswill's Jawbone? Which lucky Lord or Lady will assume the Role of the Rotten Goat? Who shall ceremonially waive the Granite Cock of Cragmartin? Will Charles retain the increasingly unpopular tradition of rinsing the Cullinan Diamond in the previous monarch's urine? It's all up in the air, and the chaos is only likely to intensify as opening day approaches!
posted by phooky at 1:47 PM on May 2, 2023 [8 favorites]

then a few years later I learned about the Stone of Scone and definitely had a "Wait, what, that thing is real?" moment.

Hey, I'd always thought that Giant Hogweed was a mythical whimsical Peter Gabriel figment. First time I'd read about it (in real life) I thought someone was making a Prog in-joke. Second time it was like "Hey Wait A Minute..."
posted by ovvl at 1:51 PM on May 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

I can admire Frankie Boyle's amusingly scathing take but at this point it's just depressing. It's the same effect as Boris Johnson on Have I Got News For you - it's satire as a way to normalise criticism and thus diffuse it.

It's "our appointed Court Jester is allowed to jape. Witness our freedom of speech. Doesn't that make Britain Great!"

What it isn't is a coherent and achievable plan to end the monarchy and replace it with a democratically accountable head of state.

Such a plan doesn't exist. Instead, the UK has a variety of safety valves that operate to remove the pressure for change. Like emigration - I moved to Aotearoa New Zealand two decades ago, where we care so little for the monarchy that we can't even be fucked to detach ourselves from it. And that's just another form of diffusion.
posted by happyinmotion at 1:59 PM on May 2, 2023 [8 favorites]

She was a useless rich woman, but she tried to do good in an oppressive system, and I don’t think she deserves to be mocked.

*One of my few sympathies for Charles is that he was also pushed into the same terrible marriage for stupid reasons, but he was also a grown-ass man and could have stopped the whole thing.

I think I know what you're saying here, but this statement is raising my anti-misogynist hackles a lot. Phrasing matters, and this failed to communicate what you meant.
posted by hippybear at 1:59 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

then a few years later I learned about the Stone of Scone and definitely had a "Wait, what, that thing is real?" moment.

Charles’s coronation to feature shards of the True Cross given to him by Pope
posted by Wordshore at 2:01 PM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

St. Gumberswill's Jawbone
Role of the Rotten Goat
Granite Cock of Cragmartin

All excellent usernames.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:01 PM on May 2, 2023 [8 favorites]

Always strange running into Americans who care. Didn’t you guys fight a war to get away from this?

Watching the UK Monarchy on TV is for Americans akin to seeing lions, penguins or monkeys at the zoo.
posted by chavenet at 2:01 PM on May 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

Granite Cock of Cragmartin

"If you still maintain an erection after four hours, then seek urgent medical attention"
posted by Wordshore at 2:03 PM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

"If you still maintain an erection a coronation after four hours, then seek urgent medical attention"

FTFY? Or maybe "Yes, and"?
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:09 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

some kind of twee-cozy fetish.

Got your twee-cosy right here.
posted by biffa at 2:20 PM on May 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

To paraphrase E. C. Bentley:

Charles the Third
Ought never to have occurred.
One can only wonder
At so grotesque a blunder.
posted by misteraitch at 2:24 PM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

I do love all the coronation crafting stuff people come up with in yarn. That's darned cute. (Note: last two NYT links.) Also, there's a Buckingham Palace in yarn.

God knows I don't like Charles (such a pill) or Camilla (sleazy/scheme-y) worth a damn, but I'll probably watch whatever video is put online by the time I wake up, just because otherwise, will I ever see another bling ceremony like this.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:26 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

I leave SF for London tomorrow—a friend wanted a last-minute travel companion for a European trip, and I guess the idea was, “Coronation’s on our way anyway; why not check it out?” While I find the history of the English monarchy grimly fascinating, I’m by no means a fan, past or present. But I’ve never been to the UK & was intrigued by the chance to scope out a historic vibe.

While I imagine the procession will be a claustrophobic nightmare that we will end up avoiding on the day, I am also amused at the fanciful idea of the Mall being lined exclusively with American tourists (like myself) & protestors, as even monarchists might be starting to grow weary of it all, following QEII’s recent jubilee & then funeral. Plus, some people were fond of Liz—nobody seems to feel even close to the same about Charlie, who looks to be a fatuous nightmare right out of the gate.

It’s gonna be weird!
posted by obloquy at 2:43 PM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

Always strange running into Americans who care. Didn’t you guys fight a war to get away from this?

Yeah, but some of the principals on our side were slave-owners, which takes a bit of the shine off. And it's always fun to watch some of the least celebrity-looking celebrities in the world parading around in incredibly overdone military uniforms. It's all cosplay, innit?
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:20 PM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

And it's always fun to watch some of the least celebrity-looking celebrities in the world parading around in incredibly overdone military uniforms.

Well, I think Harry is very celebrity looking. And as Boyle points out in his bit, Charles has two sons, which proves he had sex... once.
posted by hippybear at 3:42 PM on May 2, 2023

> Artw: "Always strange running into Americans who care."

The worst are the arch-conservative Americans who are simultaneously extremely reverential of the British monarchy and also hardcore, traditionalist, pre-Vatican II, Latin mass Catholics. Like, be fuckin' for real.
posted by mhum at 3:57 PM on May 2, 2023

I liked this bit: discussion of using a sharp sword versus an ax to behead someone, because the sword is nicer.
You know, because you've got to consider the feelings of the person you're beheading.
"Head taking ax" sounds enough like HeadAchingTax, something something, making people pay for this flummery coronations shite.
posted by winesong at 3:58 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

The relationship between the UK and the Crown is utterly farcial.

Here's one example - It is illegal in UK law to cause a nuclear explosion. There's an Act of Parliament about this, the Nuclear Explosions (Prohibition and Inspections) Act 1998. Fair enough, right? Don't want people going around setting off nukes without criminal charges.

Except that law has a specific carve-out for His Majesty, in his personal capacity. Section 14(4).

Yes. It is legal under UK law for the King to set off a nuclear bomb.
posted by happyinmotion at 3:59 PM on May 2, 2023 [12 favorites]

I liked this bit: discussion of using a sharp sword versus an ax to behead someone, because the sword is nicer.

No mention of the guillotine because, you know... French.
posted by hippybear at 4:01 PM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

I’m curious about the hypothetical end of the British monarchy. Do they just become an “ordinary” absurdly wealthy dynasty or…
posted by sjswitzer at 4:03 PM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

Wait, the coronation is this Sunday? Shouldn't it be on a Monday so that there's an off chance that it would be a holiday. What's the point of being a monarchy if you don't even get holidays out of it? We were already cheated out of a day of mourning when the Queen died and now nothing for the new King? Are folks in the UK getting a holiday out of it at least?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:30 PM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

Monday is a holiday,, a one off for the coronation.
posted by biffa at 4:33 PM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

It's a bonus holiday because you don't have to spend your time swearing fealty to the crown on the day off you're given.
posted by hippybear at 4:36 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

I liked this bit: discussion of using a sharp sword versus an ax to behead someone, because the sword is nicer.

I mean, I definitely don't want to go out like Mary Queen of Scots.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:41 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

Lady Die
I don’t think she deserves to be mocked.

Setting aside the homophone - which is so strange!

If she were an ordinary person I knew, who went into the world and tried to do good things, I would probably not mock her, although it would depend on what else she did. If I didn't know her and she did those things, ditto.

But she was not. I - we - only know her because of a combination of two systems I abhor, monarchy and celebrity culture. In an alternate history, absent those systems, and assuming she went into some kind of humanitarian NGO good work, the odds are terrific we'd all still never know her. We can't separate those systems from her person - systems she benefited from, despite the costs we think she incurred, and willingly joined.

Further, those of us in the US only paid attention because of our chronic Anglophilia. Americans usually don't care about, say, the Dutch or Japanese monarchies - and that's a good thing, for this lower-case r republican.

Put another way, Diane was, as you said, a rich woman with a dollop of power. Mocking her is punching up, not down, or to one side. At least I judge it so for me, being merely a commoner.
posted by doctornemo at 5:11 PM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm in one of the poorer parts of London right now, and I was pretty taken aback when I first walked into the Tesco and saw huge purple coronation banners and crown bunting everywhere. It just felt completely tone deaf and eerily dystopic. Prices are through the roof and a lot of shelves are bare; it's hard to imagine many of the customers here give a fuck. A great deal of the hype around this event feels very manufactured.

I'm pretty firmly with those Celtic fans on this one.
posted by automatronic at 5:12 PM on May 2, 2023 [18 favorites]

10% of children in the UK experience food insecurity, something the royal family could end in one day if they chose to.

This hideous group of people should be removed from public life, stripped of their wealth, and forced to live on a normal salary.
posted by chaz at 5:13 PM on May 2, 2023 [6 favorites]

Diderot captured my feelings about this accurately a long time ago.
posted by allium cepa at 5:20 PM on May 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

Prices are through the roof and a lot of shelves are bare; it's hard to imagine many of the customers here give a fuck.

Is part of the idea to present this monarchical event as a distraction from material reality, in that time-honored traditional role?
posted by doctornemo at 5:43 PM on May 2, 2023

I, your name, pledge allegiance to Hedy Lamarr, that's Hedley, and to the evil for which he stands
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:44 PM on May 2, 2023 [14 favorites]

Yes. It is legal under UK law for the King to set off a nuclear bomb.

If there's ever a sequel, prequel or spiritual sibling to Idiocracy this needs to be in there where the reigning monarch tears around in an oversized Land Rover on tank treads and lights a couple of vintage Mark 7s over Wales on Guy Fawkes day or something.

On the other hand the thought of UK royals devolving into President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho might possibly be even more bothersome than vintage battlefield nuclear charges used as fireworks.

I fully expect someone to point out that this joke was already made or done in some form by Monty Python, The Young Ones, Dr. Who or perhaps even Fawlty Towers, because wow that's one hell of a ridiculous privilege and carve out that's plump for lampooning.
posted by loquacious at 7:21 PM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

Splitting Image, most likely.
posted by hippybear at 7:29 PM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

Since Discworld has already been mentioned, let me bring up the book Guards, Guards! (FanFare post), which also has a great deal to say about monarchy and related spectacle.
posted by humbug at 7:56 PM on May 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

Central bankers should know better than to speak so bluntly, and when I'm on the MPC you won't catch me stepping on my dick that way but fundamentally that is a correct analysis of what Brexit and the Ukraine war have done to the UK's terms of trade. Made the country fundamentally poorer. As long as you try and bid up prices in order to cling to a previous standard of living, you will have inflation.

GDP per capita is higher now than it was five years ago. Most of us are worse off, but collectively, we still have more per person in the country than we did before the war. That must of us are worse off is a choice but the few who are much better off, not some inevitability of mathematics.
posted by Dysk at 11:56 PM on May 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

I moved to Aotearoa New Zealand two decades ago, where we care so little for the monarchy that we can't even be fucked to detach ourselves from it. And that's just another form of diffusion.

Ironically, three to four decades ago when I left NZ was in many ways "more British than British" and very much looked to "London" (actually an imagined London that was very different from real London by that time) for cultural guidance. It was a real contrast with Australia in the 3rd quarter of the 20th century.

It also wouldn't be a simple majoritarian decision either since historically there have been appeals to the Crown over the head of the NZ government to enforce certain treaty rights by Maori groups. That would need to be unwound quite carefully.

Dysk, that is true but that GDP buys fewer imports. Since energy is a major import and energy intensive food is another major import (and energy is a major input factor into domestically produced food) an energy price increase makes us poorer per pound of income. The effect that has is very unevenly spread around, of course.
posted by atrazine at 1:17 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

Meanwhile the UK government has brought forward anti-protest legislation (link to the Guardian) while denying it has anything to do with planned anti-monarchist protests
posted by kumonoi at 2:06 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

Personally, I'm looking forward to the inevitable South Park episode featuring the coronation of the new King and Queen of Canada, "as is tradition".
posted by jgbustos at 2:29 AM on May 3, 2023

Yes. It is legal under UK law for the King to set off a nuclear bomb.

I only recently learned that the monarchy also owns almost all of the UK's seabed, as well as a vast collection of other properties, which together are worth ~£15.6 bilion. While they give their profits to the government, they're then returned 25% of those profits. They also tend to make this sound like a charitable act (Charles talked about how money from leasing the seabed for wind farms would go to the "wider public good") as opposed to it just being absurd that he gets to collect a quarter of the money made off of something which should belong to everyone.
posted by nightcoast at 3:24 AM on May 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

The worst are the arch-conservative Americans who are simultaneously extremely reverential of the British monarchy and also hardcore, traditionalist, pre-Vatican II, Latin mass Catholics. Like, be fuckin' for real.

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Frank Wilhoit
posted by JohnFromGR at 5:11 AM on May 3, 2023 [5 favorites]

Always strange running into Americans who care.

Maybe we should stop raising little monarchists. Every fairy tale a kid hears for the first ten years of their life is teaching them that the correct political system involves kings, queens, princesses and princes.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:54 AM on May 3, 2023 [13 favorites]

I'm pretty neutral on the whole monarchy question but I will definitely watch the coronation from historical interest. For all the description of it as a "ceremony largely unchanged for a thousand year" (heard on the radio this morning) there is such a large gap between most modern monarchs (last 200 years or so) that everyone who organised the last coronation is probably dead, or has forgotten what happened, so they end up making most of it up from scratch every time. The only truly ancient bit is the religious, anointy part.

Of course, I will also be half0hoping that something goes spectacularly wrong, because it usuallty does. It would take a lot to improve on George IV's coronation though, where all the crown jewels had been rented, and Queen Caroline spent the whole service circling the abbey trying to get in, because the king had had her locked out.
posted by Fuchsoid at 6:55 AM on May 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

God Save the King!
posted by Comfy Shoes at 8:14 AM on May 3, 2023

On Saturday, in lieu of the suggested oath of allegiance, I will at the appointed time instead stand, face roughly south-southeast, and extend both middle fingers skyward.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:16 AM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

Always strange running into Americans who care. Didn’t you guys fight a war to get away from this?

The South losing the Civil War didn't make everyone suddenly stop being racist.
posted by straight at 8:18 AM on May 3, 2023 [5 favorites]

The ceremony has become more elaborate over time as the UK became ever more bourgeois and the monarchy less powerful. Of course the anointing element is truly ancient and the swearing of allegiances but in a society where people genuinely believed that the anointing had a real effect and allegiance oaths were binding before God, you might keep the ceremony to just those two.

After all, when a new CEO shows up, there's relatively little pageantry - that's because they're actually in charge, so no need for special costumes. The board appointing them is the real ceremony and in many cases you might just do that and nothing else. The ceremonies are needed because it so clearly *doesn't* matter otherwise.

Incidentally, the following people already take an oath of allegiance:

MPs, MSPs, and members of the Senedd (but not NI assembly), members of the house of lords (if they want to speak or vote)
Police officers in England and Wales (never have in Scotland and in NI they got rid of it in the move from RUC to PSNI for obvious reasons)
Magistrates and judges
Privy counsellors (usually also MPs but not necessarily)
Clergy in the Church of England
Members of the armed forces but *not* naval officers as their loyalty is without question
Anyone who has become a British citizen

Interestingly the first three are all office holders rather than employees which brings with it some interesting facts about employment law as it applies to police constables i.e. it doesn't apply but they have parallel protections which serve a similar purpose.
posted by atrazine at 8:20 AM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

I wish there were a link to the program ran on the BBC World Service last night amidst their wall to wall, floor to ceiling coverage of All Things Coronation. Which was devoted to people who had met [mostly] Prince Charles. What struck me was how they all invariably described a man who was totally in command of the topic at hand, who made eye contact with everyone to whom he spoke to him and spoke their names to them as he did. Say what you will about him but he is as hard a work horse as was his mother. From Antigua to Grenada to a Sikh gurdwara in Luton, he amazed the people who greeted him. Well met indeed.
posted by y2karl at 9:26 AM on May 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

(tweet) Here's a map of street parties this weekend...
posted by Wordshore at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

Maybe we should stop raising little monarchists. Every fairy tale a kid hears for the first ten years of their life is teaching them that the correct political system involves kings, queens, princesses and princes.

Good thinking, CheeseDigestsAll. We did some of this in our family, which might help explain the now-grown children's politics (anarchism and Marxist social justice).

But we do apparently love those stories. Cf Disney and Game of Thrones.
posted by doctornemo at 9:37 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

We can't separate those systems from her person - systems she benefited from, despite the costs we think she incurred, and willingly joined.

This post probably shouldn’t become a referendum on Diana, but citing Celebrity Culture, which horrifically constrained her life and led directly to her death as something she benefitted from is pushing the definition of “benefit” pretty hard. And I’m not sure that mocking someone who suffered considerable emotional abuse from the British Royal Family, which seems to be practically an abuse factory, is maybe not punching as far up as you think.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:43 AM on May 3, 2023 [9 favorites]

When I say "God Save the King!" I mean "Lord, send three spirits to convince him to throw off the shackles of wealth dragging his soul to hell."
posted by straight at 2:01 PM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

Props to wordshore for accepting that, however difficult, he was destined to play this role.
posted by Phanx at 2:33 PM on May 3, 2023 [5 favorites]

Believe me, talking about Diana is not one of my priorities, but since you insist:

...is maybe not punching as far up as you think

Diana became a *global* figure with great wealth, influence, and privilege precisely and solely because of the two mechanisms you see as also injuring her. No matter what she suffered, that places her far above 99+% of the human race. That's upwards for pretty much every person on Earth. Definitely for me.

the British Royal Family, which seems to be practically an abuse factory
One of the smaller but still sufficient reasons to abhor them.
posted by doctornemo at 5:24 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

we can acknowledge that some British rituals with ancient power and justified provenance genuinely do have cultural significance, and speak to the weird and eerie nature of that society.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:10 PM on May 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

Here's my dream for the coronation.

The pomp and circumstance is ongoing, reaching a state of high dudgeon, everyone is busy being all majestic, when suddenly it occurs to someone in the audience just how ridiculous this all is. They can't help but giggle. Which sets the person next to them into a giggle as well.

The giggling spreads from person to person, and soon it's chuckles, then laughs and then guffaws. All these dignified people in these ridiculous costumes and ridiculous customs are overwhelmed and delighted at just how bonkers it all is, and they're howling.

And somehow, inexplicably, in a fairy tale logic kind of way, that's how it all comes crumbling down.
posted by MrVisible at 7:15 PM on May 3, 2023 [10 favorites]

Still no Purcell, and only the unavoidable bit of Handel. Serious composers who wrote really good music specifically for the ceremonies of earlier monarchs, and they just get ignored. When Charles wants a fanfare, he chooses Strauss, FFS.
posted by Phanx at 3:08 AM on May 4, 2023

All the good composers were already committed to Eurovision the next week.
posted by Etrigan at 4:47 AM on May 4, 2023 [8 favorites]

Canadian media has been fawning all over this ridiculous coronation. I saw some article about how Camilla had given a pen to Charles and how that had calmed him. That was the article. I thought it was an Onion headline. But there's no bottom to how low the media will go to puff up some idiot King.
posted by Fizz at 7:22 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

You keep forgetting the part that this King is anything but an idiot and has designed his entire investiture as a contract between hisself and his nation right down to his coronation quiche, which while it was with its lard enfused crust, neither kosher nor halal, nevertheless hit every other note important to him. Hate on him all you want but he, being to the manner born, had no other choice in the matter. You might as well direct your vituperation in retrospect towards Elizabeth II or George VI as well, for they had no choice in the matter either. So drop the idiot part already. He is anything but stupid and knows exactly what he is doing.
posted by y2karl at 1:28 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

Props to wordshore for accepting that, however difficult, he was destined to play this role.

I'll have you all know that last month I sent him no less than 3 wheels of the finest cheese and a really fancy cake to put a stop to all of this nonsense, and yet here we are.
posted by loquacious at 11:04 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Giant penis mowed into lawn at King Charles’ coronation bash site
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:48 AM on May 5, 2023 [6 favorites]

I knew there would be hell to pay for not appointing anyone to waive the Granite Cock of Cragmartin. Do you think he'll have to personally waive it during the ceremony? It's out of the question that he'd accept it, of course.
posted by phooky at 3:57 PM on May 5, 2023

https://nypost.com/2023/05/04/giant-penis-mowed-into-lawn-at-king-charles-coronation-bash-site/

Why, that looks just like a giant iceberg.
posted by loquacious at 8:45 PM on May 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

They've arrested the head of Republic, along with some of its organizers, long before the parade even started, and seized their placards. They gave no reason for the arrests. My understanding is that Republic had been assured before the event in their meetings with the Met that the protest was above board and would be allowed to proceed.
posted by nightcoast at 2:44 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

Ok, this is very silly and Phillip looks so very tired.
posted by loquacious at 4:01 AM on May 6, 2023

Do you mean the Duke of Edinburgh?

If you'd been dead for two years, you'd look tired too.
posted by Grangousier at 4:19 AM on May 6, 2023 [8 favorites]

All those diamonds they stole from all the colonies and empire. I hope they're cursed.
posted by Fizz at 4:19 AM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

top 5 desert-island coronation ceremony wishlist

5. the future monarch leads a marching band processional as a new orleans-style drum major
4. if the monarch sees its shadow, it will be an early succession
3. The Spanking Machine
2. awkward reading about what 'monarchy means to me' from the winner of the middle grade poetry contest
1. a lone fishwife upends a bucket of offal over the monarch's head and screams "aaaah, ya king now"
posted by logicpunk at 4:32 AM on May 6, 2023 [3 favorites]

So, I'm an American who's indifferent to the monarchy (baffled as to whether it's necessary, but compassionate towards the individuals in the institution who have likely been trapped into those roles). I admit I'm watching bits of the coronation now - but I feel kind of like an anthropologist watching a ritual conducted by some previously uncontacted people in the Amazon or something.

I also can't help but think that the age of the monarch affects the public perception of the whole thing. My hunch is that some of the power of Elizabeth II's coronation came simply from her being so young; she was being presented with all kinds of symbolic trappings meant to symbolize her power and leadership and she was being called on to protect and defend the people, and you hear that and look at her and holy crap she's just so YOUNG how is she not freaking the hell out being asked to do this. But those exact same words being conferred on a man in his 70s makes you think "....yeah, no, I don't think he can hack it."

And it's interesting - I bristle at all the jokes people crack about Joe Biden being too old, since most of them fall back on some really lazy tropes about weakness and Werther's Originals candy or whatever, and yet here I am thinking those very same things about Charles. But....he just doesn't look the part somehow.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:48 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

If you'd been dead for two years, you'd look tired too.

Hah. Yeah, in my defense I'm barely even like half awake and just accidentally stumbled into the live broadcast of this wild nonsense and I'm still not sure if I'm having a weird dream or hallucinating.
posted by loquacious at 5:40 AM on May 6, 2023

One of our kids started jumping on our bed at six in the morning, so I picked up my phone and randomly just saw the bit where they plopped the funny hat on the guy's head. It didn't look great? Charles was visibly jerking himself awake several times over the course of a minute. Then the guy's kid came over to swear an oath of allegiance that he had to read off of a cue card because he apparently couldn't be assed to memorize a single sentence for the biggest-deal ceremony of his dad's whole life. The audience seemed fiddly, like they really missed their cell phones. The chair looked uncomfortable. Fuck monarchy in general, but I felt bad for them all. The whole thing seemed really sad.
posted by phooky at 5:46 AM on May 6, 2023

Coronation time! Look at the bling
On display as we get a new King.
Watching Charlie get crowned,
Count the times that he's frowned—
Is he happy about the whole thing?
posted by rory at 5:49 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

There's no reason why Americans should know (or care) about this, but there's no such verb as "to coronate". What happened today is that Charles was crowned. The ceremony surrounding this was his coronation.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:52 AM on May 6, 2023 [4 favorites]

They've arrested the head of Republic, along with some of its organizers, long before the parade even started, and seized their placards. They gave no reason for the arrests.

First reports on BBC radio this morning said they'd been arrested on suspicion of coming equipped to fasten themselves to street furniture as a means of disrupting the day's events. This equipment, the report added, was the straps holding each batch of the protestors' placards together for ease of handling as they unloaded their van. Clearly this is nonsense: the cops might just as well have said "suspicion of possessing string".

By mid-morning this had changed to the reason for arrest being that one of the protestors had a megaphone. Whether the police stick to that story any longer than their first one remains to be seen.
posted by Paul Slade at 6:10 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

What the event really needed was a good lighting director. Hold the whole ceremony at night, get some dramatic lighting to make the regalia really shine out among the darkness. Make those gemstones really twinkle!
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 6:37 AM on May 6, 2023

A blogger attends the crowning of King Charles, getting a good viewing spot, but afterwards overdoes it on the booze and throws up over himself.
posted by Wordshore at 6:45 AM on May 6, 2023 [3 favorites]

I had thought I was joking when I mentioned string a couple of posts above. But maybe not:

Stratton said the organisers of the protest had not possessed lock-on devices. “What would we lock on to? We are just protesting.” He added that one protestor at Trafalgar square had been taken away by police as he had string on him. “It’s string that was part of his placard, he said. “What was he going to do with that?”
posted by Paul Slade at 6:52 AM on May 6, 2023

Terrific for the nation that the BBC got the first screening rights of the new Harry Potter film and showed it this morning. I found all the magic spoon stuff a little hard to follow, but thought the special stone was a nice touch and enjoyed all the wizards who were there, and the cameo from Nick Cave.
posted by reynir at 8:00 AM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

Then the guy's kid came over to swear an oath of allegiance that he had to read off of a cue card because he apparently couldn't be assed to memorize a single sentence for the biggest-deal ceremony of his dad's whole life.

For one: Everything was on cue cards! Apart from the Archbishop or two, there was not a word spoken that was not read from a cue card. And everyone did. Plus the amount of practice that was done was enormous up to and including both King and Queen. Everyone was so drilled. Getting up in the wee hours and rehearsing over and over ahead of time.

It was amazing to see how the military units could march so precisely since most everyone marching has a real job in the armed forces. Not to mention how well trained the horses were -- especially the ones carrying brass bands. No hands on the reins for most of the musicians in those saddles. Those horses were incredible. And the way the marchers and riders shot through the arches and did drill gymnastics going from twelve abreast to six on the curves. Total amaze balls.

I was so blown away at how well executed the whole thing was. And sure the King is an old. I know the sentiment common here is we're all supposed to die as soon as possible as far as some of you are concerned. That's the sentiment of so many around here. All Baby Boomers are the same and in lockstep and should die as soon as possible so you can cash in. Yeah, I was the same when I was young. I was a genius at your age, too. Old people were icky back then too. Well, guess what, pals, is at the end of your lives. One long deterioration. Get ready. You'll be playing chess with Death soon enough, too, just like Max Von Sydow in The Seventh Seal. I don't like your chances there.

I was also struck at how every religion Anglican, Catholic, various other Christian churches, Sunni and Shia imans, a rabbi, Jain and Hindu priests, Sikh clerics were represented at what was an Anglican religious ceremony. And Rishi Sunak read from Colossians at one point! And the whole anointing thing was so spooky. Now that's what a religious ceremony should be to my mind.

And the way Charles had to strip down to a tunic shirt for the anointing -- man, the layers of symbolism and the attention to detail throughout the ceremony were just amazing. The music was incredible, too -- the orchestras, the string sections, all the singers in all their outfits, the crazy ass long fanfare trumpets. I understand there's now an official Royal harpist as of only a couple of years ago, by the way. Another idea of Charles according to the commentators.

And the things I found out about him today. He was a paratrooper in the army and took seven jumps, learned to fly at 20 and later qualified for jets and helicopters eventualky and served in the Navy to boot. As have his sons.

And today I learned the golden carriage was built for George III in 1741. Amazing. I loved the tradition, grandeur and was enraptured by the shots of it all from the high cameras in Westminster.

And when Prince William swore his oath and then kissed his father on the cheek ever so slightly and quickly -- that choked Charles up for an instant. And when at the end the King and Queen came out on the balcony and were still wearing seven layers of clothing but still got around and acted like fairly normal people who were maybe a little tired from getting up at 3 AM and participating in one of the most important events in their lives.

And the cheers of the crowds -- not to mention the super volume hip hip hoorays from the troops on the lawn at Buckingham! -- were so loud. And the way the crowds outside marched down to Buckingham -- in.the.rain.mind.you. They were happy.

In a world where everyone anymore is in their own private Idaho silos of their music, their podcasts, their TV and movies on streaming, the coronation was a success. It gave the audience present and viewing an experience in common. And that is such a rare thing anymore.

Now I don't have a thing for the Royals. But there is a place for history and tradition in grand events. Scoff all you want but some of you around here need to take the Hater Raybans off every once in awhile. I saw a different ceremony and a different man.

And, boy, the Gurkhas had cool hats. But then this was Great Britain. There was no end of cool hats to be seen.
posted by y2karl at 8:06 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]

An unelected man was imposed as my head of state. No amount of ceremony is making that legitimate.
posted by biffa at 8:24 AM on May 6, 2023 [6 favorites]

This is all a bit much for a sleepy old dude getting a new second-hand hat.
posted by Dysk at 8:27 AM on May 6, 2023 [3 favorites]

Thanks for explaining to us in the UK why we should feel awed about having a head of state foisted on us for his entire life with no qualification other than the rule of the Magic Vagina, put into a role which represents the UK's grubby, incestuous, corrupted public life.

A man who gave shelter and support to a paedophile priest, whose family secretly amended laws so that they would remain an exception to them and barred black people from being their servants into the seventies, a man who took two million quid in 'donations' from a foreign national looking for an honour, and a man who is worth over two billion quid who was happy to let the taxpayer pay the entire cost of this medieval cosplay when there are children going to school that the teachers are having to feed them because they're malnourished and ambulances are waiting for fourteen hours to deliver patients into over-run hospitals.

But hey, hats.
posted by reynir at 9:25 AM on May 6, 2023 [14 favorites]

"I come not to be served but to serve", says the person who has a servant put the toothpaste on his toothbrush.

Feh.
posted by reynir at 9:27 AM on May 6, 2023 [7 favorites]

"I come not to be served but to serve", says the person who has a servant put the toothpaste on his toothbrush.

This is the one fact that makes me unable to take him seriously as a person. Unfair of me? Perhaps. But by all accounts, he has wanted nothing else all his adult life than to be the King already. I expect that there was not one thing, not public sentiment or a bad economy or a meteor strike, that was going to do him out of his big coronation. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ordered those extra-legal roundups himself, in a Henry II sort of way.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:51 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

(Addendum: I just remembered something else he was famous for wanting, back in the 90s, but I am just as happy to forget about that whole tampon situation. It can go in the attic with the Judge Ito and Lewinsky jokes.)
posted by Countess Elena at 10:01 AM on May 6, 2023

And sure the King is an old. I know the sentiment common here is we're all supposed to die as soon as possible as far as some of you are concerned. That's the sentiment of so many around here. All Baby Boomers are the same and in lockstep and should die as soon as possible so you can cash in.

....That's not what I said and I'll thank you not to imply such.

I was also struck at how every religion Anglican, Catholic, various other Christian churches, Sunni and Shia imans, a rabbi, Jain and Hindu priests, Sikh clerics were represented at what was an Anglican religious ceremony.

I saw that too - when I read about the ceremony's program, I also read that as Charles was leaving the imams and the rabbi and the clerics would all give him an official blessing and greeting, and I was looking forward to hearing that as part of the service; it was, as you imply, a nice nod to the diversity of England. ....However, it would have been nicer if they had let everyone HEAR those blessings instead of playing a hymn over them.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:42 AM on May 6, 2023

However, it would have been nicer if they had let everyone HEAR those blessings instead of playing a hymn over them.

I believe there was a religious reason for this - an orthodox rabbi observing shabbat, maybe?
posted by Dysk at 11:11 AM on May 6, 2023

Best parade moment was when the Mounties showed up. At least one of them was grinning and looking like he was enjoying himself.

Maybe he'd got his man? I understand they always do, after all ...
posted by Paul Slade at 11:17 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

Hopelessly naive question, but asked sincerely: why doesn't Charles and his family have to chip in for the coronation? I understand that he's the head of state and that since it's state business, sure, let the state pay for the basics. But come now. This is ridiculous.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:04 PM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

This is all a bit much for a sleepy old dude getting a new second-hand hat.

Yeah, and that old chair really needs to go before it collapses and hurts someone.
posted by loquacious at 12:43 PM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

"I come not to be served but to serve", says the person who has a servant put the toothpaste on his toothbrush.

This is the one fact that makes me unable to take him seriously as a person.

For me, it's the fact that he has to bring his own toilet seat when he visits someone's home. Re: the toothpaste, I'm sure he doesn't dress himself either. A dude's already there to do that, might as well use him.

I don't like Charles, but the monarchy isn't gonna be abolished in my lifetime no matter how unpopular he and the wife are, and frankly since royals here are essentially working for publicity/marketing/reality TV, I don't really care. I find British government confusing AF, but it doesn't sound like the ruler is actually running much. I'll eventually get around to finishing watching it for the lulz though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:50 PM on May 6, 2023

And has anyone seen Wordshore? He's not answering his phone and I'm very disappointed he seems to have vanished with the sizeable retainer I sent him without finishing the task we had agreed upon.

There was supposed to be a giant wheel of cheese over 300 feet in diameter that rolled right down The Mall and...

Oh dear, I knew I shouldn't have given him so much cheese.
posted by loquacious at 1:01 PM on May 6, 2023 [6 favorites]

For me, it's the fact that he has to bring his own toilet seat when he visits someone's home.

Your definition of "fact", being ...?
posted by Paul Slade at 2:44 PM on May 6, 2023

I read it years ago and don't have handy link proof.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:54 PM on May 6, 2023

Charles and Camilla sort of denied it without actually using the word "No" a few years back.
posted by Etrigan at 2:59 PM on May 6, 2023

There's no reason why Americans should know (or care) about this, but there's no such verb as "to coronate".

this is true - what we say is someone had a heart attack

What happened today is that Charles was crowned.

he had a stroke instead?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:24 PM on May 6, 2023

The toilet seat story is from a book by Tina Brown, The Palace Papers. It includes other stuff such as someone squeezing his toothpaste for him.
posted by biffa at 4:44 PM on May 6, 2023

I laugh at "sort of denied it while not actually saying no."
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:46 PM on May 6, 2023

Ye Olde Clock Radio woke me up with the sounds of the coronation this morning.

What struck me was that there was a lotta God in there. God this, God that, God going back a thousand years and more in England, God save the King.

Over the past year I've been reading bits here and there about the way that this specific God, this non-generic God, was tightly tied to the destruction of nomadic and forest people in Europe, and their replacement with settled agricultural people - sometimes via conversion, sometimes via less pleasant means - and the simultaneous replacement of all their old gods and goddesses, and the way that it was all so tightly intertwined with Christian kingship, Christian military force, various ancestors of Charles riding around on horses and killing or intimidating people until they fell in line.

Anyway. That's what the clock radio got me thinking about this morning.
posted by clawsoon at 9:49 PM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

More seriously, I've always thought that the greatest protection the British royal family has is the hilariously unappealing and inept people who have strong feelings against. It's like every Methodist schoolmaster who wants to warn His Boys against Strong Drink has merged with a stamp collecting society. There's nothing like a conversation with a republican to make me (not a monarchist at all) want to make fierce, solemn pledges of allegiance to His Majesty.

On the other hand, some way into a too-long conversation with a proud monarchist you may detect the smell that they are much too refined to be a white supremacist, that there are many more and subtler degrees of supremacy than that, and you may give a shudder.
posted by clawsoon at 10:05 PM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

...and the simultaneous replacement of all their old gods and goddesses, and the way that it was all so tightly intertwined with Christian kingship, Christian military force, various ancestors of Charles riding around on horses and killing or intimidating people until they fell in line.

That is reading a little bit into what is a lot more.

The Golden State Coach is actually made of giltwood, which is a thin layer of gold leaf over wood. The interior is lined and upholstered with velvet and satin. It also features magnificent painted panels of Roman gods and goddesses.

It features gilded sculptures including three cherubs on the roof, which represent England, Scotland, and Ireland. And above each wheel there is a massive triton figure.

The Diamond Jubilee Carriage which took the King and Queen to Westminster has an aluminium body and is prevented from swaying by six hydraulic stabilisers... also features materials taken from over 100 historic sites: the seat handrails are from the Royal Yacht Britannia, and the window frames and interior panels include pieces from Caernarfon Castle, Canterbury Cathedral, The Mary Rose (Henry VIII’s flagship), 10 Downing Street, and the Antarctic bases of Captain Scott and Sir Ernest Shackleton.

The United States of America is a settler nation. The mounds of Cahokia, the White House Ruins of Canyon de Chelly and the Hopi pueblos aside, the oldest permanent structures in the first 48 states are less than 300 years old and by far the bulk of those are in the 13 original colonies. Otherwise most everything here is 20th Century vintage max. We don't know old.

Westminster, on the other hand has been a religious site over a thousand years and the British monarchy dates back to 1066 CE.

The ceremony and instruments of the Coronation are history upon history and symbol upon symbol all the way down.
No wonder Americans are fascinated by it.
posted by y2karl at 12:18 AM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

the British monarchy dates back to 1066 CE

That's a bizarre and arbitrary date to pick. The current royal family are not directly related to William the Conqueror, and an English monarchy has existed for at least a hundred years before the Norman invasion.
posted by Dysk at 1:15 AM on May 7, 2023 [6 favorites]

I wouldn't call it bizarre and arbitrary; it's a date embedded in British consciousness, and in the title of a famously amusing book. But yeah, not accurate: the "first monarch to establish a stable and extensive rule over all of Anglo-Saxon England" was Egbert in 827, the first King of Scots was Kenneth I MacAlpin in 843 or 848, the first king to rule most of present-day Wales was Rhodri Mawr the Great in 844, and the Kingdom of Uladh or Ulster dates back to centuries before Christ. This nice page from the National Portrait Gallery shows how tangled the royal family line is in England (→ UK).
posted by rory at 3:05 AM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'd call it bizarre and arbitrary for a start date for the monarchy. I know it's a big deal because of the whole invasion thing, but that's tangentially connected at best. It's odd in the same way that picking 1776 as the year for stuff that isn't independence (e.g. the end of the civil war) would be bizarre in a US context. In both cases, it's a famous year yes, but it's not famous for that.
posted by Dysk at 3:11 AM on May 7, 2023

the oldest permanent structures in the first 48 states are less than 300 years old

They're thin on the ground to be sure but I've been in people's ordinary boring homes in the US that were older than that.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:59 AM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

the oldest permanent structures in the first 48 states

Wikipedia says ~750 CE for the oldest, and ~1000 CE for the oldest continuously inhabited.

My impression is that 1066 is celebrated because it was the last time that England was successfully invaded from the Continent. Various wags have pointed out that that's not true. However, the British - especially the bourgeois forces who pushed aside the old aristocracy - seem to have a habit of saying they're not changing anything when they change everything.
posted by clawsoon at 5:20 AM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

The ceremony and instruments of the Coronation are history upon history and symbol upon symbol all the way down. No wonder Americans are fascinated by it.

I assume you’re speaking of symbolism, since there’s no evidence Americans give a fig for history.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:07 AM on May 7, 2023 [2 favorites]

The only Coronation related video I’ve watched is BigManny doing an experiment to test for the presence of CO2 in honor of King Charles III
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:24 AM on May 7, 2023

I assume you’re speaking of symbolism, since there’s no evidence Americans give a fig for history.

Maybe most Americans do not care about history. And they misunderstand it. I am but one of those. But then we are not alone in our misunderstandings. Everywhere people look through the wrong ends of their own telescopes. I know I am not alone in this.

I have been thinking about the Hittites lately. Not that I know anything about them. But my phone has been filled recently with stories about why their empire fell. In a word: drought.

I have bemused of late by how history is driven by climate change. It stops raining for a few years somewhere and people are on the move and empires fall. Who were the Hittites and from where did they come? Who were the Sea Peoples? Hungary and Bulgaria are both named after invading peoples from Asia. How did that happen? A lack of rain seems to be involved at some point.

Who were the Mughals? Their fifth emperor built both the Red Fort and the Taj Mahal. How did they come to invade India? Weather was involved, I am guessing. And yet here we are now with history being rewritten again. Aurangzeb is not a name on many if any American tongues. Yet.

Clawsoon's -- sorry to pick on you but -- ...the destruction of nomadic and forest people in Europe, and their replacement with settled agricultural people - sometimes via conversion, sometimes via less pleasant means - and the simultaneous replacement of all their old gods and goddesses, and the way that it was all so tightly intertwined with Christian kingship, Christian military force, various ancestors of Charles riding around on horses and killing or intimidating people until they fell in line. -- set me off and I went from there. That seemed such a grand and wrong over-simplification of how things happened to me. But what do I know? Next to nothing. And you? What were we talking about? Oh, King Charles. Oh well, carry on...
posted by y2karl at 7:38 AM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

the British monarchy dates back to 1066 CE

That's a bizarre and arbitrary date to pick. The current royal family are not directly related to William the Conqueror, and an English monarchy has existed for at least a hundred years before the Norman invasion.

The British monarchy only dates back to, depending on how you look at it, 1707 (Act of Union) or 1603 (personal union of the Scottish/English crowns). In terms of lineal descent, the current royal family is directly related not only to William the Conqueror but to Alfred the Great and beyond.
posted by Preserver at 7:53 AM on May 7, 2023

y2karl, I may be affected by recency bias, in that I was recently reading a bit about the Baltic Crusades.
posted by clawsoon at 7:57 AM on May 7, 2023

Point of order: it’s actually ridiculously easy to be related to William the Conqueror if you’re from the UK because of math, so it’s actually way less special than it sounds.
posted by Artw at 8:00 AM on May 7, 2023 [9 favorites]

The British monarchy only dates back to, depending on how you look at it...

Uh yeah, that'd be why I said English. 1066 isn't even ballpark for a unified British monarchy. My point was that it was still way out for a unified English monarchy as well.
posted by Dysk at 8:05 AM on May 7, 2023

Point of order: it’s actually ridiculously easy to be related to William the Conqueror if you’re from the UK because of math, so it’s actually way less special than it sounds.

To wit: "Basically, everyone alive in the ninth century who left descendants is the ancestor of every living European today."
posted by clawsoon at 10:25 AM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

On a related topic:

Ten Other Men Left Genetic Legacies So Huge They Rival Genghis Khan’s

We know the name of only one so far.

tldr: The Great Khan has 16 million living male descendants.

Apparently, that is 0.5 % of men alive today.

Also apparently, the other unidentified men also hail from the same geographical area.
posted by y2karl at 1:28 PM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

Slappers.
posted by biffa at 3:51 PM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

On the other hand, someone could be (and many people were) an ancestor of everyone living on the earth today and yet have left no trace of themselves in anyone's DNA, simply because of the roll-of-the-dice way that chromosomal crossover during meiosis works. (...and, for Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA, because the roll-of-the-dice way that chromosomal sex determination works.)

And each tiny snippet of most of your DNA has its own unique history, which is why one bit of your DNA might be most closely related to a sibling and another bit of your DNA might be most closely related to some random person halfway around the world and yet another bit of your DNA might be most closely related to a gorilla.

But I digress. Anyway, have you noticed how similar Harry looks to Vince McMahon?
posted by clawsoon at 11:29 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]

Royal superfan arrested and locked up for 13 hours at coronation for standing near protesters (archived).
posted by rory at 8:38 AM on May 11, 2023

Oh, man, and here she wore the finest frock and a fascinator to die for. The injustice of it all!
posted by y2karl at 3:29 PM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

The hat and fascinator pictures are from 2017. She was wearing a greyish waterproof jacket and a ponytail when she was arrested. Of course, it makes for a much better story to strongly imply she was done up to the nines when it happened, so that's what the independent have done. Not particularly ethical journalism really, even if I am broadly in favour of making the police look like idiots, they do a good enough job of that themselves, the pudding doesn't need over-egging.
posted by Dysk at 9:29 PM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Well now, do I have over-egg on my face.
posted by y2karl at 1:32 AM on May 12, 2023