One of the Most Ardently Reviled Films Ever Made
May 22, 2023 1:14 PM Subscribe
There is something moving about Negovan’s quest to honour McDowell’s performance. There’s not much the recut can do about the script and iffy camerawork, which are all part of the charm. But Negovan has unearthed a much clearer sense of a character arc, from Caligula as wary young man genuflecting to the mad emperor Tiberius (Peter O’Toole, on wonderful form), to a joyful freshly minted tyrant, through to the increasing cruelty and disintegration of his reason as he is driven mad by power. from
‘An irresistible mix of art and genitals’: Caligula finally comes to Cannes [Grauniad] [CW: not really safe for work]
Caligula is reimagined with The Ultimate Cut [Cannes Film Festival]
Cannes Film Festival 2023: The Infamously Bawdy ‘Caligula: The Ultimate Cut’ Was Screened — And Dozens Of Cowards Walked Out [Decider]
The Infamous 'Caligula': Is It Really As Bad As They Say? [Collider]
A Cavalcade of Depravity [Airmail; ungated]
Caligula (1979) [IMDB]
Caligula previously
Caligula is reimagined with The Ultimate Cut [Cannes Film Festival]
Cannes Film Festival 2023: The Infamously Bawdy ‘Caligula: The Ultimate Cut’ Was Screened — And Dozens Of Cowards Walked Out [Decider]
The Infamous 'Caligula': Is It Really As Bad As They Say? [Collider]
A Cavalcade of Depravity [Airmail; ungated]
Caligula (1979) [IMDB]
Caligula previously
Metafilter: An irr-- no.
posted by gwint at 1:25 PM on May 22, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by gwint at 1:25 PM on May 22, 2023 [20 favorites]
The Decider asks a valid question: why would you go to a screening like this and then walk out? What, exactly, were you expecting? Or not expecting?
Maybe it was earnest young Americans who are too young even to have heard of the echo of the rumor of the depravity of the pic through rep-theater film notes (like everybody who hadn't heard of I am Curious (Yellow) in that earlier thread). But are those even admitted to Cannes?
posted by praemunire at 1:32 PM on May 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
Maybe it was earnest young Americans who are too young even to have heard of the echo of the rumor of the depravity of the pic through rep-theater film notes (like everybody who hadn't heard of I am Curious (Yellow) in that earlier thread). But are those even admitted to Cannes?
posted by praemunire at 1:32 PM on May 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
I've never understood the hate for this movie. It has plenty of flaws, and, depending on what cut you watch, is partially porn, but if you're at all familiar with Italian exploitation films and related subgenres of the period, it's not particularly shocking, the production values are high, and, as mentioned, some of the performances are pretty great. It's also equal parts horny and sadistically violent in a kind of endearing, honest way, which I find pretty fun.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:36 PM on May 22, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:36 PM on May 22, 2023 [19 favorites]
The original film is truly terrible. And I have a lot of patience for bad movies, particularly deviant ones. I can't say anything better than the Collider article does; I'll just agree the movie fails on all counts. It's not that it was (tediously) shocking or porny, it's that it didn't come together coherently into a movie. Maybe the comparison to Italian exploitation films is appropriate, not really my favorite genre.
Still I'm curious about this quote (from the second link) about the new film
Also skeptical whether any of this works given modern understandings of sexual abuse in the film industry in the era this was made. There are so many awful stories about the on-set filming the original Caligula. I don't know how many of them were sexual assault related but I have to think more than zero. Guccione was a professional piece of shit, of course.
posted by Nelson at 1:38 PM on May 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Still I'm curious about this quote (from the second link) about the new film
Another feat is that not a single shot from the original film was used, which makes Caligula – The Ultimate Cut a completely new feature film.What exactly does "not a single shot" mean? I think he's working from the original filmstock, this isn't van Sant's re-shot Psycho. And it's hard to imagine literally every piece of film in the new version wasn't used in the original. So what's going on with the recut? (See also previous reconstruction efforts.)
Also skeptical whether any of this works given modern understandings of sexual abuse in the film industry in the era this was made. There are so many awful stories about the on-set filming the original Caligula. I don't know how many of them were sexual assault related but I have to think more than zero. Guccione was a professional piece of shit, of course.
posted by Nelson at 1:38 PM on May 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Caligula's one of those movies that's trying to achieve something that's sort of a side-step from what most other movies are doing, such that it feels a little weird to say it's a "bad" movie, though it feels much weirder to say it's "good."
But I will say in a cinema landscape that can feel really chaste and unambitious, maybe Caligula is due for a revisit. Dull prudishness is not among its faults.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 1:39 PM on May 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
But I will say in a cinema landscape that can feel really chaste and unambitious, maybe Caligula is due for a revisit. Dull prudishness is not among its faults.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 1:39 PM on May 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
"Take my horse to his own bed."
posted by praemunire at 1:39 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 1:39 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
why would you go to a screening like this and then walk out?
Performative outrage? I can't imagine too many Cannes goers who would be unfamiliar with the film in anyway at this point.
One of the Most Ardently Reviled Films Ever Made
Is it? By who exactly? There is way worse than Caligula out there. Porn inserts and suggested fisting aside its almost quaint or even a little slow compared to some films I've seen (including other films by Caligula's director Tinto Brass - -Caligula is no Disco Volante). It is easier to watch than say Vase De Noces for instance.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Performative outrage? I can't imagine too many Cannes goers who would be unfamiliar with the film in anyway at this point.
One of the Most Ardently Reviled Films Ever Made
Is it? By who exactly? There is way worse than Caligula out there. Porn inserts and suggested fisting aside its almost quaint or even a little slow compared to some films I've seen (including other films by Caligula's director Tinto Brass - -Caligula is no Disco Volante). It is easier to watch than say Vase De Noces for instance.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
And it's hard to imagine literally every piece of film in the new version wasn't used in the original. So what's going on with the recut?
The first link says it’s cut from 96 hours of footage shot for the film.
As for why people walk out — it’s absolutely reasonable to go in thinking you can take it then realizing it’s too much for you. No need to imagine that choice as some kind of cynical performance.
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:53 PM on May 22, 2023 [25 favorites]
The first link says it’s cut from 96 hours of footage shot for the film.
As for why people walk out — it’s absolutely reasonable to go in thinking you can take it then realizing it’s too much for you. No need to imagine that choice as some kind of cynical performance.
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:53 PM on May 22, 2023 [25 favorites]
"Take my horse to his own bed."
Gonna take my horse to the Hotel Room
and ride, 'til I can't no more (\eggcorn)
posted by bartleby at 1:54 PM on May 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
Gonna take my horse to the Hotel Room
and ride, 'til I can't no more (\eggcorn)
posted by bartleby at 1:54 PM on May 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
What, exactly, were you expecting? Or not expecting?
A young woman I worked with in the 1980s once told us about her previous evening's first date at the local multiplex. The guy politely asked her which movie she'd like to see from the four or five available and - knowing absolutely nothing about it - she plumped for Caligula. Snorting with laughter as she told us this story next morning, she was was still wondering what on earth he must have thought she was trying to signal with that choice.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:04 PM on May 22, 2023 [15 favorites]
A young woman I worked with in the 1980s once told us about her previous evening's first date at the local multiplex. The guy politely asked her which movie she'd like to see from the four or five available and - knowing absolutely nothing about it - she plumped for Caligula. Snorting with laughter as she told us this story next morning, she was was still wondering what on earth he must have thought she was trying to signal with that choice.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:04 PM on May 22, 2023 [15 favorites]
Maybe the comparison to Italian exploitation films is appropriate
That's totally what Caligula is - an Italian exploitation film. It's not I, Claudius, it is a mash up of an extravagant peplum with Salò (without the politics) by a stylish & smart ass Italian erotic director. Rather than asking if this conventionally good or bad it's maybe better to ask if it works or doesn't? Or whether it is for you or not for you?
posted by Ashwagandha at 2:06 PM on May 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
That's totally what Caligula is - an Italian exploitation film. It's not I, Claudius, it is a mash up of an extravagant peplum with Salò (without the politics) by a stylish & smart ass Italian erotic director. Rather than asking if this conventionally good or bad it's maybe better to ask if it works or doesn't? Or whether it is for you or not for you?
posted by Ashwagandha at 2:06 PM on May 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
Saw the original when it came out in the theater. Somehow it's the only film I've ever watched that's made me physically queasy -- what the Grauniad author calls the "head-chopping machine" almost sent me off to the toilets to throw up.
There was a pointlessness to the whole thing, a long series of "look what I can get away with" scenes that couldn't lead to any point or punchline or resolution. In contrast, Pasolini's Salò, another famously controversial film for sex and violence, seemed to know where it was going and to have the willingness to tweak you to make its arguments. Caligula was just a big immature mess when I saw it.
posted by gimonca at 2:08 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
There was a pointlessness to the whole thing, a long series of "look what I can get away with" scenes that couldn't lead to any point or punchline or resolution. In contrast, Pasolini's Salò, another famously controversial film for sex and violence, seemed to know where it was going and to have the willingness to tweak you to make its arguments. Caligula was just a big immature mess when I saw it.
posted by gimonca at 2:08 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
the original still holds the distinction of being the only movie i have ever walked out of.
posted by wmo at 2:21 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by wmo at 2:21 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Rather than asking if this conventionally good or bad it's maybe better to ask if it works or doesn't?
It sounds like that's what the new edit is attempting, mostly by selecting takes that meet a different standard of what works in the performances by the central cast. I'm definitely intrigued!
posted by merriment at 2:22 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
It sounds like that's what the new edit is attempting, mostly by selecting takes that meet a different standard of what works in the performances by the central cast. I'm definitely intrigued!
posted by merriment at 2:22 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ah, Tales from the Lictors Guild.
It's one of those films where you wish Antonia Minor shows up machine gun.
posted by clavdivs at 2:28 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's one of those films where you wish Antonia Minor shows up machine gun.
posted by clavdivs at 2:28 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thanks to you, chavenet, I will never think about Dame Helen Mirren the same again.
posted by y2karl at 2:33 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 2:33 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
the distinction of being the only movie i have ever walked out of
That was The Blair Witch Project for me. Gave it 15 minutes, retired with motion sickness, and have since felt no motivation to give it more chances.
posted by flabdablet at 2:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
That was The Blair Witch Project for me. Gave it 15 minutes, retired with motion sickness, and have since felt no motivation to give it more chances.
posted by flabdablet at 2:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
the distinction of being the only movie i have ever walked out of
Lake Placid for me. We all have different lines in the sand.
posted by Ashwagandha at 3:37 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Lake Placid for me. We all have different lines in the sand.
posted by Ashwagandha at 3:37 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Hell, I left at the intermission of Branagh's Hamlet. We all have our lines, but I do wonder at the particular misjudgment of one's own character and taste that could lead a sophisticated Cannes filmgoer of 2023 to find Caligula unexpectedly too much.
posted by praemunire at 3:43 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 3:43 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
There was a time that I was able to do McDowell's "Little Boots" dance. If it's easy enough, I suppose I still could.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:47 PM on May 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:47 PM on May 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
My ride and friends walked out during one of the early Marvels when Nick Fury goes "I've got my EYE on you" after we had been snickering that joke the whole movie. I might've stayed at the time, but in hindsight they made the right call and I should've done that with the whole franchise at that point.
Simpsons movie was my first time choosing myself to walk out of movie. Wasn't offended, it just wasn't making us laugh.
I've suffered through most of Salo, so I figure this can't be any worse, but they've also made more depraved movies since then that I've never been in the mood to see, so adding the drag of historical filmmaking technique and tech just moves erven lower priority than even those.
posted by GoblinHoney at 3:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Simpsons movie was my first time choosing myself to walk out of movie. Wasn't offended, it just wasn't making us laugh.
I've suffered through most of Salo, so I figure this can't be any worse, but they've also made more depraved movies since then that I've never been in the mood to see, so adding the drag of historical filmmaking technique and tech just moves erven lower priority than even those.
posted by GoblinHoney at 3:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Lake Placid for me. We all have different lines in the sand.But... but... you missed Betty White!?
posted by y2karl at 3:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've suffered through most of Salo, so I figure this can't be any worse
Salo is a better film, but it's also much harder to watch than Caligula. Caligula is here to have fun, while Salo wants you to feel like (you're eating) shit.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:00 PM on May 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Salo is a better film, but it's also much harder to watch than Caligula. Caligula is here to have fun, while Salo wants you to feel like (you're eating) shit.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:00 PM on May 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
The Decider asks a valid question: why would you go to a screening like this and then walk out? What, exactly, were you expecting? Or not expecting?
Maybe they expected something unwholesome and offensive, but fun, like Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.
I fell asleep during the (optional) screening of Salò for my Italian film class because it was tedious. I ended up writing some waffle about how fascism removes the possibility of love, and something about how, in a sense, isn't life basically all about eating shit?
posted by betweenthebars at 4:03 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Maybe they expected something unwholesome and offensive, but fun, like Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.
I fell asleep during the (optional) screening of Salò for my Italian film class because it was tedious. I ended up writing some waffle about how fascism removes the possibility of love, and something about how, in a sense, isn't life basically all about eating shit?
posted by betweenthebars at 4:03 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
[Only time I walked out of a movie was Pink Flamingos—right before the scene where... you know... see the above comment's last words...]
I actually caught Caligula by accident, on Brazilian terrestrial television, while flipping channels one late November middle-of-the-night in Sao Paulo. Unedited but WITH COMMERCIALS. I wish I could remember what they were advertising!!
I really couldn't believe my eyes. I had no idea what they were saying because it was all dubbed into Portuguese. But somehow, it didn't quite matter what they were saying. I got the gist of it.
posted by not_on_display at 4:05 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I actually caught Caligula by accident, on Brazilian terrestrial television, while flipping channels one late November middle-of-the-night in Sao Paulo. Unedited but WITH COMMERCIALS. I wish I could remember what they were advertising!!
I really couldn't believe my eyes. I had no idea what they were saying because it was all dubbed into Portuguese. But somehow, it didn't quite matter what they were saying. I got the gist of it.
posted by not_on_display at 4:05 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Funny because the only movie I've walked out of was Shakespeare in Love.
I'd already seen some version of Caligula on VHS and it was...hmmm.
posted by djseafood at 4:18 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd already seen some version of Caligula on VHS and it was...hmmm.
posted by djseafood at 4:18 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
The original was the first X-rated movie I went to in a theatre. It was playing at one of the downtown Seattle movie houses that are long gone and my friend, who worked at the Neptune at the time, got us in for free with the reciprocal free entry theatres used to give to each other's employees. Sometimes we'd leave campus after our last morning class and hop buses around town and see movies for like eight or nine hours, sometimes more, and I think that one was on a Friday night so it was around 1 a.m. when we got out.
We were too stunned to really talk much about it so we headed to the Dog House because we knew it'd be too noisy to think or discuss it. We just kept staring at our plates, like "blerg, I didn't even know people could DO that sort of thing." It was very eye-opening for a young woman of my age and inexperience, and not in an especially fun way. I had gone because I was a huge Peter O'Toole stan, and loved McDowell and Mirren, but yeah, that was definitely...well, I reoriented my thinking about people afterward.
(Of course, I saw Saló a few years later and was more jaded by then, and saw Caligula again as well, just more out of curiosity than anything. I just mostly felt sad. It was sad.)
posted by kitten kaboodle at 4:35 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
We were too stunned to really talk much about it so we headed to the Dog House because we knew it'd be too noisy to think or discuss it. We just kept staring at our plates, like "blerg, I didn't even know people could DO that sort of thing." It was very eye-opening for a young woman of my age and inexperience, and not in an especially fun way. I had gone because I was a huge Peter O'Toole stan, and loved McDowell and Mirren, but yeah, that was definitely...well, I reoriented my thinking about people afterward.
(Of course, I saw Saló a few years later and was more jaded by then, and saw Caligula again as well, just more out of curiosity than anything. I just mostly felt sad. It was sad.)
posted by kitten kaboodle at 4:35 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
the version that was released in 1979 is the deviant version
Indeed.
posted by doctornemo at 4:36 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Indeed.
posted by doctornemo at 4:36 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Helen Mirren needs to host a Documentary Now! version of the making of Commodus.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:41 PM on May 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:41 PM on May 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
The only movie I've ever walked out of was March of the Penguins. We are not the same.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:51 PM on May 22, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:51 PM on May 22, 2023 [17 favorites]
The best thing I can say about Caligula is that when I saw it in my twenties I thought it was better than its reputation made it out to be, and kind of fun.
The worst thing I can say about it is that, 15 or so years on now, I can't really remember a damn thing about it. Which for a movie that made its name on its shock value, is a hell of a thing.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:53 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
The worst thing I can say about it is that, 15 or so years on now, I can't really remember a damn thing about it. Which for a movie that made its name on its shock value, is a hell of a thing.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:53 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sounds interesting! In the right company, at least. Back in the heyday of Netflix DVD rentals, both Caligula and I showed up at my parents' house the same weekend. I had seen the film in college, and averted a family watch party disaster. (Classics minor: priceless.) Parents both denied all knowledge of the film's content or rating, and reportedly had chosen it based on the cast. Which could be true. Netflix also once gifted us The Debt, also starring Helen Mirren; I wish I'd known to veto that one.
posted by mersen at 4:54 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by mersen at 4:54 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
The only film I've walked out of was Her, when the AI has hired a sex worker. It's a well-made film, but it was a level of cringe that I simply could not handle. There's a similar scene in Blade Runner 2049 that I liked much better, because, well, the context is almost inverted.
posted by Merus at 5:34 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Merus at 5:34 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I first saw it on VHS as a teenager, then in a DC theater on a date. It remains vivid in my memory, perhaps alas.
I love seeing traces of Vidal's script in the final mass, like when someone cuts Caligula: "you *amateur!*
posted by doctornemo at 5:36 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love seeing traces of Vidal's script in the final mass, like when someone cuts Caligula: "you *amateur!*
posted by doctornemo at 5:36 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
My parents took me and my two older sisters to this movie. They were both heavily into history and porn positive, so it just made sense.
As the movie opened we were working out who the various characters were, oh yes, Tiberius is Peter O'Toole, Caligula is that young actor I don't know, Claudius is the guy there who is looking confused and scared.
It immediately started to get gory and gross, and the guy sitting in the row in front of us snickered audibly and commented loudly, "Fatso gets it next!!"
He was referring to Claudius.
He wasn't wrong - Claudius DID get it next. If you remember your history you will know that was the guy who became Caesar after Caligula.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:40 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
As the movie opened we were working out who the various characters were, oh yes, Tiberius is Peter O'Toole, Caligula is that young actor I don't know, Claudius is the guy there who is looking confused and scared.
It immediately started to get gory and gross, and the guy sitting in the row in front of us snickered audibly and commented loudly, "Fatso gets it next!!"
He was referring to Claudius.
He wasn't wrong - Claudius DID get it next. If you remember your history you will know that was the guy who became Caesar after Caligula.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:40 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I lived in a dorm for a year when I went to college, and Penthouse just seemed to be everywhere, and though I never had the opportunity to see for myself, I heard it was even more ubiquitous in fraternities.
So when I found out about Caligula, I couldn’t help thinking of it as the ultimate frat Toga Party fantasy movie.
posted by jamjam at 5:49 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
So when I found out about Caligula, I couldn’t help thinking of it as the ultimate frat Toga Party fantasy movie.
posted by jamjam at 5:49 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’ve gone to Caligula twice. The first time I was nonplussed; the second time I feel asleep (it was a late show).
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:56 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:56 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Look, Helen Mirren is in The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover in which she ritualistically eats a roasted man's penis. She's been doing weird cinema for a long time before she became Dame Mirren.
posted by hippybear at 5:56 PM on May 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 5:56 PM on May 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
Helen Mirren has always been a goddess.
posted by doctornemo at 5:57 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 5:57 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
But... but... you missed Betty White yt !?
Betty White deserved better.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:58 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Betty White deserved better.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:58 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I assure you, Betty White had already received all the "better" possible before she was in Lake Placid, and she took that job knowing full well what it was -- a cash grab capitalizing on her sudden new-found popularity amongst the kiddos. She went on to be on yet another sitcom during her career revival. She made smart choices.
posted by hippybear at 6:04 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 6:04 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
A young woman I worked with in the 1980s once told us about her previous evening's first date at the local multiplex. The guy politely asked her which movie she'd like to see from the four or five available and - knowing absolutely nothing about it - she plumped for Caligula. Snorting with laughter as she told us this story next morning, she was was still wondering what on earth he must have thought she was trying to signal with that choice.
I chose The Cider House Rules for a first date. I didn't know what it was about; I just wanted to see all the Best Picture nominees before the awards show. Then we went to the grocery store and I shattered his illusions by telling him that the blue in blue cheese was mold and that doughnuts are deep-fried. Not the finest social occasion of my lifetime.
Saw the original when it came out in the theater. Somehow it's the only film I've ever watched that's made me physically queasy -- what the Grauniad author calls the "head-chopping machine" almost sent me off to the toilets to throw up.
My mother had to run out of the theater and throw up during the heart-pulling-out scene in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and the first shot of Jabba in Return of the Jedi.
I can't remember ever walking out of a movie. I did sleep through most of the only Harry Potter I got dragged to (they were going to a ball or something?). And we got kicked out of Lord of Illusions because apparently you're not allowed to switch screens between movies at the drive-in multiplex.
I've never seen the '79 cut of Caligula, but I'm really intrigued to see the new one. I'll probably want to see both when the latter is available, just for comparison. I love giallo and 1970s Italian movies in general*, so who knows?
*When I can find dubbed versions. My wonky peepers can't handle subtitles.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:05 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I chose The Cider House Rules for a first date. I didn't know what it was about; I just wanted to see all the Best Picture nominees before the awards show. Then we went to the grocery store and I shattered his illusions by telling him that the blue in blue cheese was mold and that doughnuts are deep-fried. Not the finest social occasion of my lifetime.
Saw the original when it came out in the theater. Somehow it's the only film I've ever watched that's made me physically queasy -- what the Grauniad author calls the "head-chopping machine" almost sent me off to the toilets to throw up.
My mother had to run out of the theater and throw up during the heart-pulling-out scene in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and the first shot of Jabba in Return of the Jedi.
I can't remember ever walking out of a movie. I did sleep through most of the only Harry Potter I got dragged to (they were going to a ball or something?). And we got kicked out of Lord of Illusions because apparently you're not allowed to switch screens between movies at the drive-in multiplex.
I've never seen the '79 cut of Caligula, but I'm really intrigued to see the new one. I'll probably want to see both when the latter is available, just for comparison. I love giallo and 1970s Italian movies in general*, so who knows?
*When I can find dubbed versions. My wonky peepers can't handle subtitles.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:05 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Back in the heyday of Netflix DVD rentals, both Caligula and I showed up at my parents' house the same weekend. I had seen the film in college, and averted a family watch party disaster. (Classics minor: priceless.) Parents both denied all knowledge of the film's content or rating, and reportedly had chosen it based on the cast.
So basically you cock-blocked their slightly porny date night?
It's an ok movie. I think it tried to do a lot and didn't really succeed, but you have to give them points for trying. I share praemunire's confusion about why anyone would go to the trouble of attending and then walking out. It's pretty much a known quantity and not really even all that shocking.
Gory film? Dont forget Gomorrah
Gomorrah is a fantastic movie (and the subsequent series is pretty good, too), but it's not really something I'd see as comparable in intention or execution to Caligula.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:08 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
So basically you cock-blocked their slightly porny date night?
It's an ok movie. I think it tried to do a lot and didn't really succeed, but you have to give them points for trying. I share praemunire's confusion about why anyone would go to the trouble of attending and then walking out. It's pretty much a known quantity and not really even all that shocking.
Gory film? Dont forget Gomorrah
Gomorrah is a fantastic movie (and the subsequent series is pretty good, too), but it's not really something I'd see as comparable in intention or execution to Caligula.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:08 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Helen Mirren needs to host a Documentary Now! version of the making of Commodus.
Commodus or Gladiator or both?
Helen Mirren now is sanguine about all the nude scenes in which she had to appear when she was young. Apart from Caligula, that is.
Commodus or Gladiator or both?
Helen Mirren now is sanguine about all the nude scenes in which she had to appear when she was young. Apart from Caligula, that is.
“Does it really matter?” she remembered thinking when first asked about appearing topless. “I was doing nude scenes [from] the first moment I started doing movies...posted by y2karl at 6:21 PM on May 22, 2023 [21 favorites]
It was the era... It seemed to be nothing to get your knickers in a twist over.”
Not to say that she wasn’t self-conscious. “I was always afraid. Always. It’s not fun to be on a film set and be one of the only ones naked.”
“I’ve never opened my mouth to denigrate Caligula, I was pretty young when I made that—not physically so much as experienced in film. And you know what? It was a great experience. It was like being sent down to Dante’s Inferno in many ways.”
As for the reason why Mirren didn’t mind shooting her nude scene in the sexually overt drama: “Everyone was naked in that... It was like showing up for a nudist camp every day. You felt embarrassed if you had your clothes on in that movie.”
Also, using Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet suite is a fine move.
posted by doctornemo at 6:27 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by doctornemo at 6:27 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I had seen the film in college, and averted a family watch party disaster.
W.o.w.
posted by praemunire at 6:30 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
W.o.w.
posted by praemunire at 6:30 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
What if the parents entirely knew what the movie was and their kid came home and they had to pretend they were innocent?
posted by hippybear at 6:33 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 6:33 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Helen Mirren is in The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover in which she ritualistically eats a roasted man's penis
It's been a while since I've seen this pretty great movie, but AFAIR she doesn't, she forces her husband at gunpoint to take a bite, and then immediately shoots him.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:49 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's been a while since I've seen this pretty great movie, but AFAIR she doesn't, she forces her husband at gunpoint to take a bite, and then immediately shoots him.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:49 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's been a while since I've seen this pretty great movie
I admit, the last time I saw it was when it was in theaters, and my memory was faulty.
I'm continually searching for Peter Greenaway films online, they are basically not there much of the time.
posted by hippybear at 6:51 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I admit, the last time I saw it was when it was in theaters, and my memory was faulty.
I'm continually searching for Peter Greenaway films online, they are basically not there much of the time.
posted by hippybear at 6:51 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I have seen the original, about which I seem to recall John Gielgud being surprised by the insertion of (ahem) insertion scenes but stating that they "vastly improved the film," which might be my favorite backhanded compliment of its era.
Perhaps with this new cut, they'll finally get the action figures made.
posted by delfin at 7:21 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Perhaps with this new cut, they'll finally get the action figures made.
posted by delfin at 7:21 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I will admit that Caligula was the first time I ever heard the possibility of anal fisting mentioned anyplace. Which later in my life led to, um... beneficial explorations.
posted by hippybear at 7:25 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:25 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I walked out of The Emperor’s New Groove but later I came back and watched it when I wasn’t on an acid trip that had taken a turn for the gnarly and I liked the second viewing a lot better.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 7:38 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 7:38 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I've walked out of either....it was either Blade Runner or A Clockwork Orange. Because somehow a college dude and I had the bright idea to go see a double-feature of those two films as a first date. We watched the first one - I no longer remember which came first- and then sat there awkwardly between them not speaking, and then about ten minutes into the second one we whispered to each other "do you wanna just go?" and we did, and after standing awkwardly around outside for a couple minutes, we said good night and left separately. They're both good films, but they are NOT first date films.
I also ran out of Terminator 2, but just for the one scene where Sarah Connor dreams of nuclear war because I'd been having the same dream myself for a decade and yo, it is FREAKY being surprised by your worst nightmare being projected onto a 50-foot screen in front of you with THX sound and shit.
As for Caligula - I never saw it, I know about its notoriety. I'm going to end up watching it for my blog at some point. But I did see something else which may be intriguing - a video artist's piece from 2005, which is a fake trailer for a fake remake. It was weirdly fascinating - the cast inclded Helen Mirren, Justine Bateman, Karen Black, Gerard Butler. Benicio Del Toro, Milla Jovovich and Courtney Love, and they even got Don LaFontaine to do the narration (LaFontaine was that "In a world...." guy who did all the trailers in the early aughts).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:39 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I also ran out of Terminator 2, but just for the one scene where Sarah Connor dreams of nuclear war because I'd been having the same dream myself for a decade and yo, it is FREAKY being surprised by your worst nightmare being projected onto a 50-foot screen in front of you with THX sound and shit.
As for Caligula - I never saw it, I know about its notoriety. I'm going to end up watching it for my blog at some point. But I did see something else which may be intriguing - a video artist's piece from 2005, which is a fake trailer for a fake remake. It was weirdly fascinating - the cast inclded Helen Mirren, Justine Bateman, Karen Black, Gerard Butler. Benicio Del Toro, Milla Jovovich and Courtney Love, and they even got Don LaFontaine to do the narration (LaFontaine was that "In a world...." guy who did all the trailers in the early aughts).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:39 PM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I have never walked out on a movie, but there is one film I wish I had walked out on... Red Sorghum.
So there was an art-house theater in the area in which I grew up, and it had regular movie ticket sales, but it also had what was basically a year of tickets for a discounted fee. The year didn't run Jan-Dec, it was more aligned with then-television series so it started in Sept and ran through Aug, with no re-run season like television. They were a single screen theater so a movie might show up for a week or two or maybe three if it was a big deal. The Season Ticket real let you see any movie they screened once -- if you wanted to go again, you had to pay.
So that season ticket was a pretty good deal, well below the box office ticket price and it meant you could literally see every movie they showed for 52 weeks. Might not be 52 movies, but still... was a good deal.
So I used to buy season tickets for the theater and for a while would try to go see most of the movies they offered there because the other movie houses in town were cineplexes and mainstream and I was young and pretentious.
And then Red Sorghum came to the theater.
We went, a bunch of us together, my peer group who were together through high school and into college and we'd all bought these season tickets and we'd all go together, and it was sort of a party fun time with friends.
I cannot speak to everyone present in my group that night, but I know for each person some part of that film planted a seed of PTSD that is still growing and manifesting in all of us. For me, it was the flaying scene, but there were so many others.
We've tried a few times since then to talk about this collective movie trauma experience, but we can't find the connection, the language. It was collective, but also so individual.
The only thing I know for sure for all of us, I've heard it all spoken in the decades since then, is we all wish we had walked out. But we didn't because we were there as a group.
posted by hippybear at 7:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
So there was an art-house theater in the area in which I grew up, and it had regular movie ticket sales, but it also had what was basically a year of tickets for a discounted fee. The year didn't run Jan-Dec, it was more aligned with then-television series so it started in Sept and ran through Aug, with no re-run season like television. They were a single screen theater so a movie might show up for a week or two or maybe three if it was a big deal. The Season Ticket real let you see any movie they screened once -- if you wanted to go again, you had to pay.
So that season ticket was a pretty good deal, well below the box office ticket price and it meant you could literally see every movie they showed for 52 weeks. Might not be 52 movies, but still... was a good deal.
So I used to buy season tickets for the theater and for a while would try to go see most of the movies they offered there because the other movie houses in town were cineplexes and mainstream and I was young and pretentious.
And then Red Sorghum came to the theater.
We went, a bunch of us together, my peer group who were together through high school and into college and we'd all bought these season tickets and we'd all go together, and it was sort of a party fun time with friends.
I cannot speak to everyone present in my group that night, but I know for each person some part of that film planted a seed of PTSD that is still growing and manifesting in all of us. For me, it was the flaying scene, but there were so many others.
We've tried a few times since then to talk about this collective movie trauma experience, but we can't find the connection, the language. It was collective, but also so individual.
The only thing I know for sure for all of us, I've heard it all spoken in the decades since then, is we all wish we had walked out. But we didn't because we were there as a group.
posted by hippybear at 7:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Can't say I've ever walked out on a film (closest I came was the original Solaris, but I was seeing it with someone else who was enjoying it so I just closed my eyes and tried to chill. But it was an endurance test). That said, I came to realize early on what my (dis)comfort zone was and what to avoid. So if the prospect of seeing stuff like Saw and Hostel made me go "er, nope", then I assumed Caligula (which sounds like the original "torture porn" in some ways) and Salo were definite no-gos.
posted by gtrwolf at 8:20 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by gtrwolf at 8:20 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
And then Red Sorghum came to the theater.
It's endlessly interesting to me what different people find traumatic versus enjoyable. I saw that movie in a film class and loved it. However, personally, I nope out of even very mild horror movies, while many (maybe most) people seem to find them fun and even cathartic.
The only movie I can remember walking out on from a theater was some Woody Allen movie that I found too boring to sit through. Otherwise I've mostly sat through even bad movies, probably from the sunk cost fallacy of having spent so much on a ticket.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:24 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's endlessly interesting to me what different people find traumatic versus enjoyable. I saw that movie in a film class and loved it. However, personally, I nope out of even very mild horror movies, while many (maybe most) people seem to find them fun and even cathartic.
The only movie I can remember walking out on from a theater was some Woody Allen movie that I found too boring to sit through. Otherwise I've mostly sat through even bad movies, probably from the sunk cost fallacy of having spent so much on a ticket.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:24 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I will admit that Caligula was the first time I ever heard the possibility of anal fisting mentioned anyplace
Geez, what people had to go through before Cruising came along...
posted by gtrwolf at 8:29 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Geez, what people had to go through before Cruising came along...
posted by gtrwolf at 8:29 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've never walked out of a film, but when I was a teenager I invited my best friend over to watch Incubus. We watched the whole thing, and then as the credits rolled he turned to me and announced, "We aren't friends any more."
posted by biogeo at 8:35 PM on May 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 8:35 PM on May 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
I saw The Wild Wild West in a summer heat wave, in a theater where the air conditioning had died, and it was absolutely sweltering. Just miserable. Before the movie started, someone came out and said they weren’t going to be able to get the AC working. They were going to show the film, but if we wanted we could leave and get our money back. I declined that offer, and I sat there in that miserable heat with sweat running down my back and watched that excrescence of cinematic evil from beginning to end.
I’m pretty sure I’m just never going to walk out of a movie.
posted by Naberius at 8:42 PM on May 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
I’m pretty sure I’m just never going to walk out of a movie.
posted by Naberius at 8:42 PM on May 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
I've never walked out of a film, but when I was a teenager I invited my best friend over to watch Incubus. We watched the whole thing, and then as the credits rolled he turned to me and announced, "We aren't friends any more."
This is an amazing writing prompt.
posted by hippybear at 8:49 PM on May 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is an amazing writing prompt.
posted by hippybear at 8:49 PM on May 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
I saw "Caligula" in 1994 as part of the Porn 'til Dawn festival at Carnegie-Mellon University. This festival, put on by my roommate, was in response to an attempt by the administration to censor the less savory Usenet groups. Also in the lineup: The Devil In Miss Jones, John Wayne Bobbitt: Uncut, and a Traces of Death pizza eating contest. I remember the guy who won that contest.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:50 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
What was that weird Alice In Wonderland porn? The only thing I can remember about it was two characters stepping through a hedge and saying something like "I wish we could find our way out of this movie" and then disappearing into the maze again.
I do remember Chatterbox... about a singing vagina.
Porn used to be more fun back in the day.
posted by hippybear at 8:53 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I do remember Chatterbox... about a singing vagina.
Porn used to be more fun back in the day.
posted by hippybear at 8:53 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Only film I've ever walked out on was Chelsea Girls, but I had a late train to catch that evening, aside from it being long and boring. Of course, I have left some experimental compilation nights before the final act, haven't we all?
My bad date film was Last Tango in Paris, I took my big crush to see it because critics said it was interesting and sexy, but after the show they just said: "thanks, later, bye." I curse Bertolucci and pretentious critics who like him, assholes. Good soundtrack by Gato Barbieri. Wait, 1900 was okay.
posted by ovvl at 9:10 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
My bad date film was Last Tango in Paris, I took my big crush to see it because critics said it was interesting and sexy, but after the show they just said: "thanks, later, bye." I curse Bertolucci and pretentious critics who like him, assholes. Good soundtrack by Gato Barbieri. Wait, 1900 was okay.
posted by ovvl at 9:10 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
"What was that weird Alice In Wonderland porn?"
The musical?
♫What's a nice girl like you doing on a knight like this?♫
posted by Tenuki at 9:21 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
The musical?
♫What's a nice girl like you doing on a knight like this?♫
posted by Tenuki at 9:21 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: equal parts horny and sadistically violent in a kind of endearing, honest way.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:28 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:28 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've an actor friend who will, at the slightest provocation, regale you with tales about how his first film was the great Caligula, with the smashing and impossibly famous Peter O'Toole who of course gave him fantaaastic-dahling acting advice and the maaahvelous Dame Dench, before she was famous, don't you know, and oh how we all were best of pals, etc.
And though I've heard him pull those stories out countless times over the years, it's never occurred to me to question the pedigree of the film! It's got Peter O'Toole and Judy Dench, it must be a classic! Everyone seems to have heard of it, it's about a guy recognized by history as being Interesting, and so on.
But now.. Maybe the film is.. Bad? I gotta watch it. Not sure I want to keep my eyes peeled for my friend, though, given the full frontage. He's quite a bit older than me and it's an odd feeling, to know I could peer back in time at an older friend and see what they used to look like naked, back before I was born.
posted by foxtongue at 10:15 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
And though I've heard him pull those stories out countless times over the years, it's never occurred to me to question the pedigree of the film! It's got Peter O'Toole and Judy Dench, it must be a classic! Everyone seems to have heard of it, it's about a guy recognized by history as being Interesting, and so on.
But now.. Maybe the film is.. Bad? I gotta watch it. Not sure I want to keep my eyes peeled for my friend, though, given the full frontage. He's quite a bit older than me and it's an odd feeling, to know I could peer back in time at an older friend and see what they used to look like naked, back before I was born.
posted by foxtongue at 10:15 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Not sure I want to keep my eyes peeled for my friend, though
Assuming he was in it, 'cuz Judi Dench wasn't (also you don't call a knight/dame Knight/Dame Lastname).
posted by praemunire at 11:09 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Assuming he was in it, 'cuz Judi Dench wasn't (also you don't call a knight/dame Knight/Dame Lastname).
posted by praemunire at 11:09 PM on May 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I saw Caligula in the theater at original release and just thought it was a hot mess. And I walked out of Pulp Fiction because I couldn't handle worrying that something bad was going to happen to Maria de Medeiros. I think that's the only film I've walked out of.
posted by Rhedyn at 11:39 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Rhedyn at 11:39 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
not really even all that shocking
Soundtrack for the thread
The advent of ogrish.com gave the Overton window such a massive shove that it's basically never stopped sliding since. Art just can't compete now that access to all the real awful things is so easy.
posted by flabdablet at 11:47 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Soundtrack for the thread
The advent of ogrish.com gave the Overton window such a massive shove that it's basically never stopped sliding since. Art just can't compete now that access to all the real awful things is so easy.
posted by flabdablet at 11:47 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've never walked out of a film, but when I was a teenager I invited my best friend over to watch Incubus. We watched the whole thing, and then as the credits rolled he turned to me and announced, "We aren't friends any more."
I had a similar experience with a BBC short story competition I once entered. They gave you a selection of half-finished stories by various established writers and invited you to finish one of them. I chose Alexi Sayle's story to complete and ... well, let's just say my conclusion to it took a dark and somewhat sexual turn.
I nervously sent it to a friend to see what he thought, and when he phoned me back the first thing he said was, "(Wife's name) says you can't come and stay anymore."
posted by Paul Slade at 12:14 AM on May 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I had a similar experience with a BBC short story competition I once entered. They gave you a selection of half-finished stories by various established writers and invited you to finish one of them. I chose Alexi Sayle's story to complete and ... well, let's just say my conclusion to it took a dark and somewhat sexual turn.
I nervously sent it to a friend to see what he thought, and when he phoned me back the first thing he said was, "(Wife's name) says you can't come and stay anymore."
posted by Paul Slade at 12:14 AM on May 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Not to be competitive or anything, but a group of us walked out of Players (Ali McGraw 1979) twice.
In the same evening.
posted by MtDewd at 3:33 AM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
In the same evening.
posted by MtDewd at 3:33 AM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
a group of us walked out of Players (Ali McGraw 1979) twice. In the same evening.
I'm more curious about the thought process that lead you to go back in.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:48 AM on May 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm more curious about the thought process that lead you to go back in.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:48 AM on May 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
“So fond did Father become of [the BBC’s I, Claudius] that one Sunday afternoon he decided to venture into the local video rental shop in search of more Romans on celluloid.
‘I want an educative film for my daughter about a Roman emperor,” said Father. The manager of the shop shook his head. ‘We don’t have anything like that.’ ‘Yes, you have,’ said Father. He pointed to a section marked Adult. ‘Look, higher education.’ The man was dubious. ‘You misunderstand, sir.’ Nonsense. Father’s eyes skimmed a selection of salacious titles. Bondage Bitches, Sex fiends from Hell, Slaves to Sado-masochism.
‘How odd, I’m not familiar with these. Are they anything to do with Tacitus?’
But when his gaze fell on a film entitled Caligula, there was jubilation. ‘That’s it. That’s what we want. Very educative for my daughter.’ ’How old is she?” ‘Fourteen.’ The man paled. I could see he was thinking of unimaginable perversions. But father was oblivious. We took the video home and put it on. Sir John Gielgud’s appearance in the opening credits made Father feel vindicated. ‘Silly man in that shop. If John’s in it, it must be very high brow.’
Gielgud was in it for a mere a ten minutes – fully clothed. He was the only one who was. In a sub-Fellini pastiche, orgy followed execution followed incest in disgusting, crapulous monotony. Father was bored and baffled. When Malcolm McDowell’s Caligula has sex with his sister’s corpse, Father said, ‘But that’s not in Suetonius.’ As the film ground to its repellent conclusion, Mother chanced to put her had around the door. Horror disfigured her visage. ‘Really, Woodrow. What are you teaching Petronella?’
Father replied equably. 'History, Buttercup. But it’s changed since I last read it.'”
Father, Dear Father, by Petronella Wyatt
posted by BWA at 4:47 AM on May 23, 2023 [12 favorites]
‘I want an educative film for my daughter about a Roman emperor,” said Father. The manager of the shop shook his head. ‘We don’t have anything like that.’ ‘Yes, you have,’ said Father. He pointed to a section marked Adult. ‘Look, higher education.’ The man was dubious. ‘You misunderstand, sir.’ Nonsense. Father’s eyes skimmed a selection of salacious titles. Bondage Bitches, Sex fiends from Hell, Slaves to Sado-masochism.
‘How odd, I’m not familiar with these. Are they anything to do with Tacitus?’
But when his gaze fell on a film entitled Caligula, there was jubilation. ‘That’s it. That’s what we want. Very educative for my daughter.’ ’How old is she?” ‘Fourteen.’ The man paled. I could see he was thinking of unimaginable perversions. But father was oblivious. We took the video home and put it on. Sir John Gielgud’s appearance in the opening credits made Father feel vindicated. ‘Silly man in that shop. If John’s in it, it must be very high brow.’
Gielgud was in it for a mere a ten minutes – fully clothed. He was the only one who was. In a sub-Fellini pastiche, orgy followed execution followed incest in disgusting, crapulous monotony. Father was bored and baffled. When Malcolm McDowell’s Caligula has sex with his sister’s corpse, Father said, ‘But that’s not in Suetonius.’ As the film ground to its repellent conclusion, Mother chanced to put her had around the door. Horror disfigured her visage. ‘Really, Woodrow. What are you teaching Petronella?’
Father replied equably. 'History, Buttercup. But it’s changed since I last read it.'”
Father, Dear Father, by Petronella Wyatt
posted by BWA at 4:47 AM on May 23, 2023 [12 favorites]
Look, Helen Mirren is in The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover in which she ritualistically eats a roasted man's penis.
I spent a few years working at and subsequently managing a rep house in the late eighties and early nineties. I know from walkouts. Greenaway flicks were always a rich source of aggrieved viewers storming out to demand their money back (he’s always left me kind of cold and I am not sure if I have ever paid to see one of his... maybe Prospero’s Books?)
The fastest turnaround in the most audience I can recall was Jean-Jacques Beineix’s Betty Blue, the first three minutes or so of which is just one long shot of a man and woman screwing. I imagine a few people had a first-date anecdote with that one.
The hypothetical award for Most Polarizing went to How to Get Ahead in Advertising, which was the only film I recall people angrily leaving from and the remainder applauding at the end.
If we ever screened Caligula, it was before my time. I saw it on videotape as a teen and the orgies made much more of an impression on me than the drama.
I used to see a lo-o-o-o-ot of movies and I have walked out of at least a couple of dozen in my day. It’s rarely been due to offensive content... the earliest I can recall was a 1977 purported comedy called Nasty Habits, which in retrospect was a roman à clef about Watergate set in a Philadelphia convent, and incomprehensible for the little kid I was at the time. (Maybe if I saw it now, I’d follow it better.) On the other hand, fifteen years later I did pre-emptively dodge out of a movie before it began and saw a much more rewarding film next door.
Michael Bay earned enough goodwill from me with The Rock that I actually paid to see two or three more of his before I learned better. Sunk cost has kept me in a few cinemas longer than I needed to be: I’ve seen, I think, four of the current IMDb Bottom 100. I occasionally am with someone who urges an early departure and I have acceded to their wishes; my wife had little use for Brüno, and I shrugged and concurred so I have only ever seen the first 25 minutes or so. Amusingly, though I thought 28 Days Later... was pretty solid, I saw it with my then-sweetie and she didn’t care for it one bit, then I saw it with a friend a few days later and he didn’t like it either; I had actually treated both of them so it wasn’t until I paid my fifth admission that I actually got to see it.
And as best I can recall, there is a single time I wanted to walk out but couldn’t really because of the situation: at the FantAsia film festival in Toronto in 1998 or so, I saw Douglas Buck’s short Cutting Moments, which involves a failing marriage, some implied imminent incest, and several instances of self-mutilation on camera. The Bloor Cinema was packed and I was right in the middle of a row. I have never before or since felt physically unwell in a cinema because of what was onscreen, and I didn’t trust myself to shuffle past the knees of eight or ten people in either direction when there was a non-zero chance I was going to vomit.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:57 AM on May 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I spent a few years working at and subsequently managing a rep house in the late eighties and early nineties. I know from walkouts. Greenaway flicks were always a rich source of aggrieved viewers storming out to demand their money back (he’s always left me kind of cold and I am not sure if I have ever paid to see one of his... maybe Prospero’s Books?)
The fastest turnaround in the most audience I can recall was Jean-Jacques Beineix’s Betty Blue, the first three minutes or so of which is just one long shot of a man and woman screwing. I imagine a few people had a first-date anecdote with that one.
The hypothetical award for Most Polarizing went to How to Get Ahead in Advertising, which was the only film I recall people angrily leaving from and the remainder applauding at the end.
If we ever screened Caligula, it was before my time. I saw it on videotape as a teen and the orgies made much more of an impression on me than the drama.
I used to see a lo-o-o-o-ot of movies and I have walked out of at least a couple of dozen in my day. It’s rarely been due to offensive content... the earliest I can recall was a 1977 purported comedy called Nasty Habits, which in retrospect was a roman à clef about Watergate set in a Philadelphia convent, and incomprehensible for the little kid I was at the time. (Maybe if I saw it now, I’d follow it better.) On the other hand, fifteen years later I did pre-emptively dodge out of a movie before it began and saw a much more rewarding film next door.
Michael Bay earned enough goodwill from me with The Rock that I actually paid to see two or three more of his before I learned better. Sunk cost has kept me in a few cinemas longer than I needed to be: I’ve seen, I think, four of the current IMDb Bottom 100. I occasionally am with someone who urges an early departure and I have acceded to their wishes; my wife had little use for Brüno, and I shrugged and concurred so I have only ever seen the first 25 minutes or so. Amusingly, though I thought 28 Days Later... was pretty solid, I saw it with my then-sweetie and she didn’t care for it one bit, then I saw it with a friend a few days later and he didn’t like it either; I had actually treated both of them so it wasn’t until I paid my fifth admission that I actually got to see it.
And as best I can recall, there is a single time I wanted to walk out but couldn’t really because of the situation: at the FantAsia film festival in Toronto in 1998 or so, I saw Douglas Buck’s short Cutting Moments, which involves a failing marriage, some implied imminent incest, and several instances of self-mutilation on camera. The Bloor Cinema was packed and I was right in the middle of a row. I have never before or since felt physically unwell in a cinema because of what was onscreen, and I didn’t trust myself to shuffle past the knees of eight or ten people in either direction when there was a non-zero chance I was going to vomit.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:57 AM on May 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
My understanding is that the film also is bad pornography. Not in the patriarchy, unrealistic, etc sense, but just not really arousing. I don't know, haven't seen it, but every description makes it sound like a movie that thirteen year old me would have delighted in discovering and despaired at the fact that it couldn't be used for the desired purpose.
The only movie I've walked out of was The Rocky Horror Picture Show. We had both been before, she was enough of a regular that she knew some of the cast, I had gone enough to memorize the call-backs that got you yelled at for poor taste. We were bored, half asleep, and hungry. I identify this as a point of maturation, acknowledging that it had been fun before, but realizing that didn't mean it was fun now and that I didn't need to stick around if it wasn't fun. Also, seeing the extreme misogyny in some of the call backs I had delighted in a few years before probably had something to do with it. They stopped being funny and started to be a cringe memory.
posted by Hactar at 6:00 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
The only movie I've walked out of was The Rocky Horror Picture Show. We had both been before, she was enough of a regular that she knew some of the cast, I had gone enough to memorize the call-backs that got you yelled at for poor taste. We were bored, half asleep, and hungry. I identify this as a point of maturation, acknowledging that it had been fun before, but realizing that didn't mean it was fun now and that I didn't need to stick around if it wasn't fun. Also, seeing the extreme misogyny in some of the call backs I had delighted in a few years before probably had something to do with it. They stopped being funny and started to be a cringe memory.
posted by Hactar at 6:00 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
@Hactar Had the hardcore version of this on DVD. Very of its time. Bad pornography? Well, it's sort of similar to softcore porn in that it's pointless*
* People who like porn don't like it, people who don't like porn don't like it.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 6:10 AM on May 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
* People who like porn don't like it, people who don't like porn don't like it.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 6:10 AM on May 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
My understanding is that the film also is bad pornography. Not in the patriarchy, unrealistic, etc sense, but just not really arousing. I don't know, haven't seen it, but every description makes it sound like a movie that thirteen year old me would have delighted in discovering and despaired at the fact that it couldn't be used for the desired purpose.
I like the film, and I agree with this. It isn't a turn-on, though it is very sexual and filled with naked people, many of them quite beautiful, doing sexual things. It's more of an immersive performance art project, and kind of a hodgepodge (i.e., part drama, part semi-porn, part just trying to shock the audience) that ends up being neither fully high- nor middle-brow.
Thanks to you, chavenet, I will never think about Dame Helen Mirren the same again.
There are a lot of people now who only know Helen Mirren from her recent work, but she had a much more varied early career and personal life.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:32 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I like the film, and I agree with this. It isn't a turn-on, though it is very sexual and filled with naked people, many of them quite beautiful, doing sexual things. It's more of an immersive performance art project, and kind of a hodgepodge (i.e., part drama, part semi-porn, part just trying to shock the audience) that ends up being neither fully high- nor middle-brow.
Thanks to you, chavenet, I will never think about Dame Helen Mirren the same again.
There are a lot of people now who only know Helen Mirren from her recent work, but she had a much more varied early career and personal life.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:32 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I remember Caligula (which I have not seen) mostly for two things: Bob Guccione publicized it seemingly forever in Penthouse--there were full-page ads for it in the magazine for about as long as I was interested in it, which was probably just a few years in early adulthood--and when Siskel and Ebert featured on their show about the worst movies ever, the clip that they showed was of Peter O'Toole in a bathtub, which they claimed was literally the only clip longer than a few seconds that they could show on broadcast television.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:26 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:26 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Okay, so you guys have persuaded me to download the 1979 version (BitTorrent info hash for the release I have is 23019b1d276d8424c737c778a59b24b65df608cd), which I haven't seen before, and right off the bat I can tell that I'm never going to think of The Onedin Line in quite the same way.
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Greenaway flicks were always a rich source of aggrieved viewers storming out to demand their money back
My wife and I went to Greenaway's 8-1/2 Women very early in our dating and she was definitely testing me.
posted by octothorpe at 7:55 AM on May 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
My wife and I went to Greenaway's 8-1/2 Women very early in our dating and she was definitely testing me.
posted by octothorpe at 7:55 AM on May 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
My now husband and I saw Lars Von Trier's ANTICHRIST on one of our first dates, people RAN for the exits when Charlotte Gainsbourg picked up the scissors near the end (but not us!).
posted by cakelite at 8:10 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 8:10 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
For me anyways one of the more interesting aspects of Caligula is how many different versions there have been over the years and all the rumours of alternate cuts (various censors in different countries have made various versions almost unique from one another). I've seen it a total of 2 times - a theatrical cut and an R rated version (both via VHS). The R rated version (without porn) was not terribly coherent - poorly edited and reminding me of the dubbed giallos I watched on VHS in the 80s. So I think for me it will be interesting to see what comes of this version though I can't see myself rushing out anytime soon.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:22 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:22 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
In the version I have, it's taken almost three quarters of an hour for Caligula to get the old man bumped off.
Bored now. Will pick this up again later. Maybe.
posted by flabdablet at 8:25 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Bored now. Will pick this up again later. Maybe.
posted by flabdablet at 8:25 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have gotten a lot better as I have gotten older about deciding not to put something in my brain because I don't want it in my brain. Once youthful machismo pushed me to sit through about anything. An exercise in contrast: two weeks ago I turned off Smile (the recent movie) because they implied something bad was going to happen / had happened to the cat and I was not down for that.
Did something bad happen to the cat? If not I might catch the end of it one day. Sometimes I am in the mood for horror.
posted by quillbreaker at 9:22 AM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Did something bad happen to the cat? If not I might catch the end of it one day. Sometimes I am in the mood for horror.
posted by quillbreaker at 9:22 AM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Did something bad happen to the cat?
(Not to get off-topic but you can find that answer here.)
posted by mittens at 9:34 AM on May 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
(Not to get off-topic but you can find that answer here.)
posted by mittens at 9:34 AM on May 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
The only movie I've ever walked out of was March of the Penguins.
Couldn't walk out because it was direct-to-video, but the only movie I've ever stopped because I just could not take any more was Farce of the Penguins.
posted by Devoidoid at 11:15 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Couldn't walk out because it was direct-to-video, but the only movie I've ever stopped because I just could not take any more was Farce of the Penguins.
posted by Devoidoid at 11:15 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
What if the parents entirely knew what the movie was and their kid came home and they had to pretend they were innocent?
In my family, the kid let the parents save face and act like they were shocked and would be mailing it back unopened. Shame on Netflix, shame. We have not discussed it since.
posted by mersen at 11:24 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
In my family, the kid let the parents save face and act like they were shocked and would be mailing it back unopened. Shame on Netflix, shame. We have not discussed it since.
posted by mersen at 11:24 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Only film I've ever walked out on was Chelsea Girls
Actually that's one I did walk out on, though that's because my companion was getting bored with it. (It wasn't bad, but it was a dual-screen showing and the sound cut out on the segment I was interested in, so I didn't argue with her about leaving).
My now husband and I saw Lars Von Trier's ANTICHRIST on one of our first dates, people RAN for the exits when Charlotte Gainsbourg picked up the scissors near the end (but not us!).
If there was ever a reason to check out a film on Wikipedia (and admittedly get spoilers for the plot) before viewing..... (Well, that and parents deciding on a movie for Family Night, judging from some of the anecdotes here).
posted by gtrwolf at 11:37 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Actually that's one I did walk out on, though that's because my companion was getting bored with it. (It wasn't bad, but it was a dual-screen showing and the sound cut out on the segment I was interested in, so I didn't argue with her about leaving).
My now husband and I saw Lars Von Trier's ANTICHRIST on one of our first dates, people RAN for the exits when Charlotte Gainsbourg picked up the scissors near the end (but not us!).
If there was ever a reason to check out a film on Wikipedia (and admittedly get spoilers for the plot) before viewing..... (Well, that and parents deciding on a movie for Family Night, judging from some of the anecdotes here).
posted by gtrwolf at 11:37 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
We watched the whole thing, and then as the credits rolled he turned to me and announced, "We aren't friends any more."
I didn't announce it or walk out, but I felt the same about some friends I watched A Night at the Roxbury with, requested to watch it, and who loved it. I do still see them but very rarely. I would have walked out, but they were my ride.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:35 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I didn't announce it or walk out, but I felt the same about some friends I watched A Night at the Roxbury with, requested to watch it, and who loved it. I do still see them but very rarely. I would have walked out, but they were my ride.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:35 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I walked out of Moonraker about the time, early on, Jaws had a close-up of his monstrous grin. The cinema manager phoned my mom to make sure I was okay. (I was about 7.)
I think that’s the only one I’ve walked out of…
posted by Jubal Kessler at 2:13 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think that’s the only one I’ve walked out of…
posted by Jubal Kessler at 2:13 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
to watch Incubus. We watched the whole thing, and then as the credits rolled he turned to me and announced, "We aren't friends any more."
Biogeo if it was me and if the film was the 1966 Incubus (Esperanto film featuring William Shatner and Leslie "Outer Limits" Stevens) we would remain lifelong friends. If it was the 1981 Incubus directed by John "Dirty Mary Crazy Larry" Hough starring John Cassavetes & John Ireland, we'd be firm friends in high school but drift apart in post secondary. If it was Jess Franco's late period 2002 Incubus, I would never speak to you again but in my heart I'd consider you a soul mate.
posted by Ashwagandha at 2:23 PM on May 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
Biogeo if it was me and if the film was the 1966 Incubus (Esperanto film featuring William Shatner and Leslie "Outer Limits" Stevens) we would remain lifelong friends. If it was the 1981 Incubus directed by John "Dirty Mary Crazy Larry" Hough starring John Cassavetes & John Ireland, we'd be firm friends in high school but drift apart in post secondary. If it was Jess Franco's late period 2002 Incubus, I would never speak to you again but in my heart I'd consider you a soul mate.
posted by Ashwagandha at 2:23 PM on May 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
Only movie I have walked out of was The Last Tango in Paris.
Ugh. Whatever. It was in college, and was a free showing, and was a Saturday night. Watching Marlon do the buttsecks or go drink some beers...?
posted by Windopaene at 5:32 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ugh. Whatever. It was in college, and was a free showing, and was a Saturday night. Watching Marlon do the buttsecks or go drink some beers...?
posted by Windopaene at 5:32 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
🎵 When I get that feeling
I need secksual healing...🎵
posted by y2karl at 5:42 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I need secksual healing...🎵
posted by y2karl at 5:42 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Honestly shocked to see no mention of Singapore Sling here.
posted by omgwtfpmr at 6:30 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by omgwtfpmr at 6:30 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I walked out of Moonraker... The cinema manager phoned my mom to make sure I was okay. (I was about 7.)
I just had to go look it up, because it never would have occurred to me that any of the James Bond movies would be rated PG. Silly me, I guess.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:02 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I just had to go look it up, because it never would have occurred to me that any of the James Bond movies would be rated PG. Silly me, I guess.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:02 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I walked out of Moonraker about the time, early on, Jaws had a close-up of his monstrous grin.
The International Spy Museum (private, but well worth the admission IMO) in Washington, DC, had a big James Bond exhibit when I went there several years ago; I don't know if it's all still up, but at the time a highlight was Jaws' metal dentures.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:13 AM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
The International Spy Museum (private, but well worth the admission IMO) in Washington, DC, had a big James Bond exhibit when I went there several years ago; I don't know if it's all still up, but at the time a highlight was Jaws' metal dentures.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:13 AM on May 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
More on Tinto Brass and Caligula:
‘Caligula’ Director Tinto Brass Slams ‘Caligula – The Ultimate Cut’ Screening in Cannes, Says He Is Taking Legal Action Against Penthouse Films
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:14 AM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
‘Caligula’ Director Tinto Brass Slams ‘Caligula – The Ultimate Cut’ Screening in Cannes, Says He Is Taking Legal Action Against Penthouse Films
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:14 AM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Just follow this guide to the letter, with a sincere heartfelt prayer.
posted by Nickiodi at 4:19 AM on June 1, 2023
posted by Nickiodi at 4:19 AM on June 1, 2023
IMDb has a series of fields for each film called “Parental Advisory” or something of the sort, where users can submit instances of, as I recall:
• Violence and Gore
• Sexual situations
• Profanity
• Alcohol and drug use
• Frightening or intense scenes
It is adorable that after a bunch of entries about head-chopping lawnmower devices and castrations to feed the dog and orgies and such, the third field admits there’s not much cussing but the word “bastard” is used a few times.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:58 AM on June 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
• Violence and Gore
• Sexual situations
• Profanity
• Alcohol and drug use
• Frightening or intense scenes
It is adorable that after a bunch of entries about head-chopping lawnmower devices and castrations to feed the dog and orgies and such, the third field admits there’s not much cussing but the word “bastard” is used a few times.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:58 AM on June 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ashwaganda, it was the Esperanto one. Shatner's finest performance.
posted by biogeo at 4:07 PM on June 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 4:07 PM on June 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
« Older 100 years of wondering "Whose Body"? | Buffy Sainte-Marie: Singer, Songwriter, Indigenous... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by cakelite at 1:18 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]