The Restaurant that has Something for Everyone
July 28, 2023 12:08 AM Subscribe
Common sense for restaurant success is actually the opposite of everything the Cheesecake Factory does. Minimize labor, minimize ingredients, minimize everything. Restaurants are expensive to maintain and trimming excess helps survivability. But everything on the Cheesecake Factory's ridiculous 20-page, 250-item menu is made fresh in the kitchens; except, ironically, the cheesecakes.
Previously about Cheesecake Factory's excesses: Cheesecake Factory interior design
Previously about Cheesecake Factory's excesses: Cheesecake Factory interior design
So you're telling me these Cheesecakes were made somewhere else, like a factory?
So the Cheesecake Factory is actually a red herring to disguise the location of the actual cheesecake factory. Ourprincess cheesecake is in another castle!
posted by Literaryhero at 12:32 AM on July 28, 2023 [17 favorites]
So the Cheesecake Factory is actually a red herring to disguise the location of the actual cheesecake factory. Our
posted by Literaryhero at 12:32 AM on July 28, 2023 [17 favorites]
Cannot eat a single flavor of their cheesecake. Propylene glycoled, every one.
posted by amtho at 1:05 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 1:05 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Cheesecake Factory location planning is kind of brilliant. If you find yourself somewhere saying "oh, there's always Cheesecake Factory," it's probably your best option. That possibility increases the larger the group you're in.
Not being any normal genre of restaurant also means it's pretty much never wildly inappropriate, nor can anyone say you should have gone to the more authentic alternative down the road. Teenagers can go there and giggle, families can go for birthdays, you can go with your coworkers, you can take your picky relative, you can go with your partner if you ended up in the mall for some reason, you can go by yourself because you are somewhere near one and it's lunch time. You might be able to have a business meeting there depending on various factors you will intuitively understand.
You can go in shorts, you can go in a suit if you're in a suit for some reason, it's all fine.
posted by smelendez at 1:31 AM on July 28, 2023 [19 favorites]
Not being any normal genre of restaurant also means it's pretty much never wildly inappropriate, nor can anyone say you should have gone to the more authentic alternative down the road. Teenagers can go there and giggle, families can go for birthdays, you can go with your coworkers, you can take your picky relative, you can go with your partner if you ended up in the mall for some reason, you can go by yourself because you are somewhere near one and it's lunch time. You might be able to have a business meeting there depending on various factors you will intuitively understand.
You can go in shorts, you can go in a suit if you're in a suit for some reason, it's all fine.
posted by smelendez at 1:31 AM on July 28, 2023 [19 favorites]
It's almost as if when you treat your employees like human beings and offer customers what they want at a reasonable price, you can make money!
posted by chavenet at 2:43 AM on July 28, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 2:43 AM on July 28, 2023 [16 favorites]
I've been told that part of the theory is serving food that people generally aren't going to make at home.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 3:08 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 3:08 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don’t know that I’ve ever had an amazing meal at Cheesecake Factory but I’ve definitely never had a disappointing one. And their vegan Cobb salad is quite good!
posted by obfuscation at 4:06 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by obfuscation at 4:06 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I admit, as a non-American, that I for a while thought the Cheesecake Factory was a fictional construct from The Big Bang Theory...
posted by Harald74 at 4:42 AM on July 28, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Harald74 at 4:42 AM on July 28, 2023 [17 favorites]
Behold the beauty of the Sherman Oaks Cheesecake Factory
Ha, we were staying at the hotel right across the 405 from the Sherman Oaks Galleria and I tried so hard to get my wife to go to this Cheesecake Factory. She has an aversion to most types of chain place, so we wound up someplace else, but I really wish we'd gone. We're so rarely in a place with a Cheesecake Factory (and would never go to our local one, for lots of reasons), and it's really just a trippy experience that I sort of miss.
I don't think I'd ever heard of a Cheesecake Factory until the early 2000s; the observation that they show up mostly in bougie malls seems to be true, and the mall I grew up with was grody enough that it couldn't even maintain its Friendly's.
I'd never really thought about the logistics of the menu, but it really is incredible that they manage to offer so many items that aren't just combinations of the same five ingredients. The concept is wild, and there is just no way that it should work, and yet...
posted by uncleozzy at 4:54 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ha, we were staying at the hotel right across the 405 from the Sherman Oaks Galleria and I tried so hard to get my wife to go to this Cheesecake Factory. She has an aversion to most types of chain place, so we wound up someplace else, but I really wish we'd gone. We're so rarely in a place with a Cheesecake Factory (and would never go to our local one, for lots of reasons), and it's really just a trippy experience that I sort of miss.
I don't think I'd ever heard of a Cheesecake Factory until the early 2000s; the observation that they show up mostly in bougie malls seems to be true, and the mall I grew up with was grody enough that it couldn't even maintain its Friendly's.
I'd never really thought about the logistics of the menu, but it really is incredible that they manage to offer so many items that aren't just combinations of the same five ingredients. The concept is wild, and there is just no way that it should work, and yet...
posted by uncleozzy at 4:54 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I admit, as a non-American, that I for a while thought the Cheesecake Factory was a fictional construct from The Big Bang Theory...
I always wondered why they said the restaurant in The Big Bang Theory was a Cheesecake Factory. Those restaurants have A Look, and the restaurant in the show was definitely not one - it looked like some sort of a non-chain diner. I eventually decided it had to be some kind of unfunny joke that I didn't get, much like the rest of the show.
posted by Daily Alice at 5:00 AM on July 28, 2023 [18 favorites]
I always wondered why they said the restaurant in The Big Bang Theory was a Cheesecake Factory. Those restaurants have A Look, and the restaurant in the show was definitely not one - it looked like some sort of a non-chain diner. I eventually decided it had to be some kind of unfunny joke that I didn't get, much like the rest of the show.
posted by Daily Alice at 5:00 AM on July 28, 2023 [18 favorites]
uncleozzy: I don't think I'd ever heard of a Cheesecake Factory until the early 2000s; the observation that they show up mostly in bougie malls seems to be true, and the mall I grew up with was grody enough that it couldn't even maintain its Friendly's.
I don’t remember Roosevelt Field having a Friendlys but Cheesecake Factory is about single-handedly keeping The Source mall from the wrecking ball. Not too many malls can survive the loss of the emblematic anchor store that started it (Fortunoff, in this case).
posted by dr_dank at 5:06 AM on July 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don’t remember Roosevelt Field having a Friendlys but Cheesecake Factory is about single-handedly keeping The Source mall from the wrecking ball. Not too many malls can survive the loss of the emblematic anchor store that started it (Fortunoff, in this case).
posted by dr_dank at 5:06 AM on July 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
The big aversion I have to Cheescake Factory is being delivered a plate of food that is really all the food I would need to eat for the day. American restos, particularly chains, just keep putting out these enormous trenchers of food, like, "good fucking luck" and "of course, sir, you can get 2/3 of your meal to go." It's kind of gross, really.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:09 AM on July 28, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:09 AM on July 28, 2023 [25 favorites]
I don’t remember Roosevelt Field having a Friendlys
My mall was Sunrise Mall! Roosevelt Field was the bougie mall. Hell, they couldn't even keep a Ruby Tuesday, which turned into a Chinese buffet sometime in the early 2000s (and now might be a Dave & Buster's, I want to say? Unless it's been razed already?)
posted by uncleozzy at 5:11 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
My mall was Sunrise Mall! Roosevelt Field was the bougie mall. Hell, they couldn't even keep a Ruby Tuesday, which turned into a Chinese buffet sometime in the early 2000s (and now might be a Dave & Buster's, I want to say? Unless it's been razed already?)
posted by uncleozzy at 5:11 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
The last time I tried going to Cheesecake Factory, they wouldn't take reservations over the phone at all. You had to go through the web site. So, after making an account, I discovered that you can't do reservations for more than 6, at all. We were a party of 7, so that was the end of that.
posted by Spike Glee at 5:17 AM on July 28, 2023
posted by Spike Glee at 5:17 AM on July 28, 2023
Cheesecake Factory is reliable in a pinch, but otherwise I tend avoid it. Even if the food is cooked to order, it makes me feel like I'm eating directly out of the back of the Sysco truck.
It is one of the last bastions of the 'everything' menu. Which makes me miss the original Hamburger Hamlet, although I guess Ruby Tuesday is probably its more direct imitator.
Jerry's Famous Deli was also known for its huge menu.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:30 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
It is one of the last bastions of the 'everything' menu. Which makes me miss the original Hamburger Hamlet, although I guess Ruby Tuesday is probably its more direct imitator.
Jerry's Famous Deli was also known for its huge menu.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:30 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
You might be able to have a business meeting there depending on various factors you will intuitively understand.
Cheesecake Factory is the newgolf course Chili's.
posted by AndrewInDC at 5:56 AM on July 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Cheesecake Factory is the new
posted by AndrewInDC at 5:56 AM on July 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Every time I've been to a Cheesecake Factory it has been so fucking noisy that I can remember nothing else, except for the hugeness of the portions. Noise and piggish excess, that's my main impression.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:47 AM on July 28, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:47 AM on July 28, 2023 [11 favorites]
Noise and piggish excess, that's my main impression.
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸, fuck yeah.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:00 AM on July 28, 2023 [18 favorites]
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸, fuck yeah.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:00 AM on July 28, 2023 [18 favorites]
Not being any normal genre of restaurant also means it's pretty much never wildly inappropriate, nor can anyone say you should have gone to the more authentic alternative down the road. Teenagers can go there and giggle, families can go for birthdays, you can go with your coworkers, you can take your picky relative, you can go with your partner if you ended up in the mall for some reason, you can go by yourself because you are somewhere near one and it's lunch time. You might be able to have a business meeting there depending on various factors you will intuitively understand.
I've been just once and didn't like it much, so have never gone back. However, I agree with this -- it is very mainstream American middle-of-the-road and would work perfectly for large family or social groups where some people are picky, some are not adventurous, and so on, and you just want something that is acceptable and inoffensive so no one is sitting there scowling and unhappy.
Very broadly, it's the same niche that Applebees, Olive Garden, Chilis, etc all fill to varying degrees. And, they are all at a careful specific price point where it is a bit of a splurge to take out the whole family, but there isn't any danger of someone ordering a $600 wagyu steak or being made to feel dumb about the wine list, or frowned at because you are in shorts and one of your kids is fussing.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:00 AM on July 28, 2023 [12 favorites]
I've been just once and didn't like it much, so have never gone back. However, I agree with this -- it is very mainstream American middle-of-the-road and would work perfectly for large family or social groups where some people are picky, some are not adventurous, and so on, and you just want something that is acceptable and inoffensive so no one is sitting there scowling and unhappy.
Very broadly, it's the same niche that Applebees, Olive Garden, Chilis, etc all fill to varying degrees. And, they are all at a careful specific price point where it is a bit of a splurge to take out the whole family, but there isn't any danger of someone ordering a $600 wagyu steak or being made to feel dumb about the wine list, or frowned at because you are in shorts and one of your kids is fussing.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:00 AM on July 28, 2023 [12 favorites]
What's so awful about large portions? Assuming you have someplace to refrigerate your food, it's just a better deal.
I don't eat at CF often, but when I was at one with people who had some issues with various ingredients, someone from the staff sat down with us to discuss what would be safe for each person.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:14 AM on July 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
I don't eat at CF often, but when I was at one with people who had some issues with various ingredients, someone from the staff sat down with us to discuss what would be safe for each person.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:14 AM on July 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
What's so awful about large portions?
Right? I loved their bang bang chicken and shrimp, and taking 2/3rds home just meant I got to enjoy it longer.
posted by mpark at 7:23 AM on July 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
Right? I loved their bang bang chicken and shrimp, and taking 2/3rds home just meant I got to enjoy it longer.
posted by mpark at 7:23 AM on July 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
Last time I went to a cheesecake factory it flooded about the time we were suppose to be seated. My preschooler had to pee but there were no bathrooms due to said flood. This was downtown Chicago where bathrooms are so damn hard to find. I manged to be dressed well enough to get into some nice exclusive club thing at the top of a building so my then almost 4yo could pee after I begged. My MIL was so angry she didn't meet the dress code and was insulted by the host.
Anyway, I enjoy it every once in awhile( like once a year? ), but mostly to watch my child pick a glorious piece of cheesecake like a forbidden treasure then eat two bites. I of course eat the rest.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:23 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Anyway, I enjoy it every once in awhile( like once a year? ), but mostly to watch my child pick a glorious piece of cheesecake like a forbidden treasure then eat two bites. I of course eat the rest.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:23 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
> I don't eat at CF often, but when I was at one with people who had some issues with various ingredients, someone from the staff sat down with us to discuss what would be safe for each person.
Apar from the decadent embrace of postmodern interior decoration, the one good thing about cheesecake factory is if you have to get dinner with a large family where there are various dietary restrictions, everyone can find something on the menu that they at least can't object to (even if it's not that exciting). I have, more than once, declared fuck it let's just go to cheesecake factory when my in laws and cousins and everyone can't agree on a place and it settles the issue. Vegans? Gluten intolerance? FODMAP? Keto, primal? Potato only diet? They've got a dish for you at Cheesecake Factory.
posted by dis_integration at 7:28 AM on July 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
Apar from the decadent embrace of postmodern interior decoration, the one good thing about cheesecake factory is if you have to get dinner with a large family where there are various dietary restrictions, everyone can find something on the menu that they at least can't object to (even if it's not that exciting). I have, more than once, declared fuck it let's just go to cheesecake factory when my in laws and cousins and everyone can't agree on a place and it settles the issue. Vegans? Gluten intolerance? FODMAP? Keto, primal? Potato only diet? They've got a dish for you at Cheesecake Factory.
posted by dis_integration at 7:28 AM on July 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
Huge portions can be problematic for people who feel compelled to keep eating as long as other people at the table are still eating, because you don't want to be the only person at the table who isn't. Or you don't want to be the only person who asks for a to-go box up front, so you can create your own reasonable portion, because sometimes practicing portion control is hard in social situations. Or maybe you had "clean your plate!" beaten into you as a kid, and it's sometimes hard to break free from that, especially in social situations. Maybe a combination of all three.
People are different, and what may be a non-issue for you could be That Thing That Totally Ruined The Day for someone else.
posted by xedrik at 7:28 AM on July 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
People are different, and what may be a non-issue for you could be That Thing That Totally Ruined The Day for someone else.
posted by xedrik at 7:28 AM on July 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
I find huge portions unappetizing, even alienating. And unless I'm going straight home, by car, leftovers are a pain to deal with.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:33 AM on July 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:33 AM on July 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
IMO, they have recently decreased the size of their standard portions in the past years. I remember getting a pile of pasta there in the early 2000s that was so large the server seemed embarrassed and I was shocked. Last time I went, the portions were basically only slightly larger than normal sized.
And plenty of their options the portions are small.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:34 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
And plenty of their options the portions are small.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:34 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
With a modest meal size, I have to practice portion control exactly once, when I'm looking at the menu. With a heaping plate, every second uneaten food is in front of me is a second I have to repress my base urge to keep eating. If you think this is ridiculous, you are part of the problem.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
And the interior design is just bog-standard Las Vegas.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:37 AM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:37 AM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
My daughter & I go there for our birthday dinner (she was my 21st early birthday present), and enjoy the fact that it is a girls only thing. Even though people swear up & down picky people can eat there, and I believe them, my husband won't bc there's nothing he'll eat on the menu. He will not eat anything on his burger except ketchup he applies himself, will only eat broccoli (that was a veggie I got him to eat by steaming it instead of boiling), corn, and potatoes. He also wants meat and will eat rice. He does like Longhorn, but we go there more often, so I'd like to go somewhere other than Longhorn for my birthday dinner.
posted by tlwright at 7:40 AM on July 28, 2023
posted by tlwright at 7:40 AM on July 28, 2023
I've been a couple times. I used to work near the only one location that I know of in Chicago (there's probably some in the 'burbs, though). It's in the base of the historic Hancock Center which is in a residential/commercial area on the outskirts of the most touristy parts of the city. It's steps away from the world-famous Michelin starred Alinea restaurant! Other fine dining options are nearby as well. Many tourists go to the top of the Hancock to view the city from ~100 stories up (The Willis Tower is taller, but the Hancock is a much better venue in a more convenient location, and what's a couple hundred feet when you're up that high anyway?) and then eat there. So it's really prime real estate on top of being enormous and having a 20-page menu!
I've always been surprised in a good way by the quality of the food. I expect such a giant, noisy tourist joint to be sub-par, but it's actually good food. Not great, but good. And as mentioned—it's perfect for large groups with picky eaters and/or kids. Last time I was there (probably eight years ago) the interior design was lush and "Americana-wealthy" style but looked horribly 1990s dated. But the place is well run, spotlessly clean and it's solid food. I do not like that style of cheesecake at all, so I've never tried it.
I remember hearing about it opening and thinking it was just a bakery. Such an odd name. It's nice to read that it's a well run place and that the food is genuine.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:41 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've always been surprised in a good way by the quality of the food. I expect such a giant, noisy tourist joint to be sub-par, but it's actually good food. Not great, but good. And as mentioned—it's perfect for large groups with picky eaters and/or kids. Last time I was there (probably eight years ago) the interior design was lush and "Americana-wealthy" style but looked horribly 1990s dated. But the place is well run, spotlessly clean and it's solid food. I do not like that style of cheesecake at all, so I've never tried it.
I remember hearing about it opening and thinking it was just a bakery. Such an odd name. It's nice to read that it's a well run place and that the food is genuine.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:41 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
In 2020 during peak COVID my wife decided, on her birthday, that she really wanted a Cheesecake factory cheesecake. So that is how I ended up paying about $100 (IIRC) after delivery fees for a cheesecake.
posted by COD at 7:42 AM on July 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by COD at 7:42 AM on July 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
I've only been once, as part of an all-day job interview. I tried to order light -- a tuna sandwich or something. With the mandatory side soup and salad, and all items being at least twice as large I expected, it was quite an annoyingly huge platter of food to deal with while also talking 75% of the time. Also I was wearing a suite and very conscious of not getting food on it.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:53 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:53 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
The big aversion I have to Cheescake Factory is being delivered a plate of food that is really all the food I would need to eat for the day. American restos, particularly chains, just keep putting out these enormous trenchers of food, like, "good fucking luck" and "of course, sir, you can get 2/3 of your meal to go." It's kind of gross, really.
That exact thing basically kept me alive when I was a young freshly divorced underemployed person. Mom & stepdad take you to Cheesecake Factory on Sunday, you can eat that meal for three more days, voila, there's your grocery budget sorted.
Nowadays my friends and cousins all have kids with multiple overlapping allergies and basically the only places everyone can eat are places like Cheesecake Factory or Wildfire, so that's where we go.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:55 AM on July 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
That exact thing basically kept me alive when I was a young freshly divorced underemployed person. Mom & stepdad take you to Cheesecake Factory on Sunday, you can eat that meal for three more days, voila, there's your grocery budget sorted.
Nowadays my friends and cousins all have kids with multiple overlapping allergies and basically the only places everyone can eat are places like Cheesecake Factory or Wildfire, so that's where we go.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:55 AM on July 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
Last time I went to a cheesecake factory it flooded about the time we were suppose to be seated. My preschooler had to pee but there were no bathrooms due to said flood. This was downtown Chicago
Ahh the Hobbit hole Cheesecake Factory under the Hancock center! Yeah I can't believe that place doesn't flood more often...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:57 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ahh the Hobbit hole Cheesecake Factory under the Hancock center! Yeah I can't believe that place doesn't flood more often...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:57 AM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I gained new respect for Cheesecake Factory after reading an 2012 essay about them by Dr. Atul Gawande. Linking a Harvard Health article about it, since the original New Yorker article is paywalled. The Cheesecake Factory: a model for health care?
posted by MLW15 at 8:06 AM on July 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by MLW15 at 8:06 AM on July 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
I used to work near the only one location that I know of in Chicago (there's probably some in the 'burbs, though).
Like the article says, they're mostly in malls. Woodfield, Old Orchard, Oakbrook, Orland Park... all malls with Cheesecake Factory locations.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:07 AM on July 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Like the article says, they're mostly in malls. Woodfield, Old Orchard, Oakbrook, Orland Park... all malls with Cheesecake Factory locations.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:07 AM on July 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
my husband won't bc there's nothing he'll eat on the menu. He will not eat anything on his burger except ketchup he applies himself, will only eat broccoli (that was a veggie I got him to eat by steaming it instead of boiling), corn, and potatoes.
They can make a plain hamburger and give you steamed broccoli or corn there. Those are like the most basic foods you can get at practically every restaurant (that is not fast food, because of the sides - you can get a plain hamburger at any fast food restaurant) in the entire US. I'm not sure I get this complaint.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:22 AM on July 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
They can make a plain hamburger and give you steamed broccoli or corn there. Those are like the most basic foods you can get at practically every restaurant (that is not fast food, because of the sides - you can get a plain hamburger at any fast food restaurant) in the entire US. I'm not sure I get this complaint.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:22 AM on July 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
Can someone US resident explain the avocado egg rolls? I can see the crunch and avo being good, but does the inside get hot? Hot avo 🤢
posted by ominous_paws at 9:25 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ominous_paws at 9:25 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hot avo no 🤢! Hot avo 😁! Hot avo in burritos, tacos, avocado toast, on pasta, on bagels, in all forms!
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:37 AM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:37 AM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's fine so long as the avocado isn't actually cooked, which it usually isn't. Consider the avocado/guacamole burger.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:41 AM on July 28, 2023
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:41 AM on July 28, 2023
Although the only way I enjoy the Cheesecake Factory is with a touch of irony, I say this completely sincerely: Yay capitalism!
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:12 AM on July 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:12 AM on July 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
I admit that my strategy with Cheesecake Factory is to order the stuff that can't be messed up. Because whenever I've had pasta there, it's overcooked, over-sauced, just not well done. It is a huge shock to me that the menu is supposedly made from scratch, it certainly gives off a pre-made microwaved vibe. That's why I stick to things that either have to be made fresh, like a chopped salad, or else those that are better straight out of the freezer, like fried shrimp. Last time I was there there were 4 different cuts of steak on the menu, which was really hard to believe. Normally I wouldn't get a chain steak but the unlikeliness made me curious. They were out of the NY strip and ribeye, so I was saved from ordering a steak at the Cheesecake factory. I do like the cheesecakes, especially the key lime, and am only mildly squicked out when the "whipped cream" lasts for several days in the fridge.
posted by wnissen at 11:18 AM on July 28, 2023
posted by wnissen at 11:18 AM on July 28, 2023
I remember hearing about it opening and thinking it was just a bakery
My mom for a while had this thing where she just kind of assumed that if a particular item was in the restaurant's name, that was all they actually sold. E.g., she would go to Panera Bread and buy literal loaves of bread. So we used to go shopping at the mall and eat dinner at like Chili's or Olive Garden or whatever, then stop in to Cheesecake Factory for dessert to go.
I've only eaten there like twice as an adult. (Once was via DoorDash, which I probably wouldn't do again.) But for all the "they accommodate picky eaters" stuff, there's one kind of picky eater that Cheesecake Factory can't accommodate, which is the affluent hipster snob. Alas, that seems to be the majority of the people I eat with these days. Although I've recently gotten my wife to eat at Chili's with me, so... maybe.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:36 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
My mom for a while had this thing where she just kind of assumed that if a particular item was in the restaurant's name, that was all they actually sold. E.g., she would go to Panera Bread and buy literal loaves of bread. So we used to go shopping at the mall and eat dinner at like Chili's or Olive Garden or whatever, then stop in to Cheesecake Factory for dessert to go.
I've only eaten there like twice as an adult. (Once was via DoorDash, which I probably wouldn't do again.) But for all the "they accommodate picky eaters" stuff, there's one kind of picky eater that Cheesecake Factory can't accommodate, which is the affluent hipster snob. Alas, that seems to be the majority of the people I eat with these days. Although I've recently gotten my wife to eat at Chili's with me, so... maybe.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:36 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
and am only mildly squicked out when the "whipped cream" lasts for several days in the fridge.
As a baker who frequently makes whipped cream from scratch, I can tell you this only means they've added some kind of stabilizer, such as gelatin. It's really not squicky at all.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:51 AM on July 28, 2023 [20 favorites]
As a baker who frequently makes whipped cream from scratch, I can tell you this only means they've added some kind of stabilizer, such as gelatin. It's really not squicky at all.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:51 AM on July 28, 2023 [20 favorites]
You too can have stabilized whipped cream! Add a pinch of cornstarch (vegetarian!) and your whipped cream will last for two-three days. I make fruit fools in the summer all the time and know this from experience.
posted by Frowner at 12:02 PM on July 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 12:02 PM on July 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
My great aunt, rest her soul, lived to be 98. When me and the kids would visit her near the end of her life, she would insist we go to the CF. She would get the same thing every time, take a few bites, have it wrapped to go and have free food (I always paid) for a month at the rate she ate. She would also take the rolls if there were any, extra packets of sugar, and lots of napkins. She wasn't broke or anything, just frugal. This is the same person that lived in the same studio apartment for 50 (!) years. She once told me that she drove to the apartment sometime in the 50s, parked her car on the street and never drove again. Asked what happened to her car, she said, "Oh I gave it to the man that delivered my groceries." When asked what was the most important invention in her lifetime (1913 - 2011) she said the frozen dinner and the toaster oven. Not landing on the moon, not air travel, not even the internet or cell phones, the toaster oven. Why? And this is where I gained a lot of respect for her. "Because it freed up the woman to leave the kitchen and live a life. Prior to the toaster oven and a Swanson frozen entrée, the woman would spend hours a day in the kitchen cooking and cleaning. The toaster oven did more for feminists than Gloria Steinem she used to say. She also always had a new joke for the kids and one more dirty for me.
Aunt Rose was a pistol. I always associate Cheesecake Factory with her.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:25 PM on July 28, 2023 [54 favorites]
Aunt Rose was a pistol. I always associate Cheesecake Factory with her.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:25 PM on July 28, 2023 [54 favorites]
IMO, they have recently decreased the size of their standard portions in the past years.
I went there recently for the first time in a long time and I was struck by this too. The portions have definitely gotten smaller.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:30 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I went there recently for the first time in a long time and I was struck by this too. The portions have definitely gotten smaller.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:30 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Several years ago, I was working on a B2B software team that had a Hawaiian client and had the luck* of having this client fly us out to Oahu for two weeks at a time as we got their platform up and running. The client had arrangements with hotels in Waikiki beach, so we were always required to stay there and take taxis over, eventhough there were other hotels within walking distance to them in downtown Honolulu. There's a mall on the northern end of Kalakaua Avenue, the beachfront strip of Waikiki, and it has a Cheesecake Factory, and I swear everytime I walked by there would be a trio of Japanese or Korean or Chinese tourists sitting out on the patio who would be taking out their phones as some ginormous cheesecake or steak or a mountain of shrimp and avocados would be set in front of them and they would just take photos with their jaws dropped like, "get a load of this excessive bullshit."
As I recall that Cheesecake Factory was across the street from a shooting range and a car rental shop that specialized in muscle cars and exotics, and so it stamped this impression in my mind that while Americans may want to visit Paris with a bucket list to eat a croissant, see an art, and fall in love, there are a non-trivial number of Asian tourists who come to the US to shoot a gun, drive a fast car and eat a cheesecake the size of their head.
* - no lie, the sunsets were gorgeous and the ability to spend the occasional weekend faffing around Oahu or taking the ferry to Maui was super nice, but we also spent 8-10 hours in windowless conference rooms looking at Powerpoint presentations or staring at our laptops, and that part was low key torture.
posted by bl1nk at 1:12 PM on July 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
As I recall that Cheesecake Factory was across the street from a shooting range and a car rental shop that specialized in muscle cars and exotics, and so it stamped this impression in my mind that while Americans may want to visit Paris with a bucket list to eat a croissant, see an art, and fall in love, there are a non-trivial number of Asian tourists who come to the US to shoot a gun, drive a fast car and eat a cheesecake the size of their head.
* - no lie, the sunsets were gorgeous and the ability to spend the occasional weekend faffing around Oahu or taking the ferry to Maui was super nice, but we also spent 8-10 hours in windowless conference rooms looking at Powerpoint presentations or staring at our laptops, and that part was low key torture.
posted by bl1nk at 1:12 PM on July 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
Huge portions can be problematic for people who feel compelled to keep eating as long as other people at the table are still eating, because you don't want to be the only person at the table who isn't.
Yeah, and this is often not even a conscious thing. It's been studied -- most people will tend to eat most or all of what's put in front of them, and most people will unthinkingly eat more if the people around them are eating more.
I sometimes go into a meal with the strong intention not to overeat and feel gross afterward, but I find myself eating more than I planned or even wanted, because of the portion sizes and/or because of what the people I'm with (who are also influenced unconsciously by large portion sizes, of course) are doing.
I'm old enough to remember how, over the course of the 1980s, everything in American restaurants got bigger: the plates, the bowls, the glasses, and the portions of food and drink that were served in them. It was striking, and weird. The simultaneous increase in obesity seemed pretty obviously correlated.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:51 PM on July 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
Yeah, and this is often not even a conscious thing. It's been studied -- most people will tend to eat most or all of what's put in front of them, and most people will unthinkingly eat more if the people around them are eating more.
I sometimes go into a meal with the strong intention not to overeat and feel gross afterward, but I find myself eating more than I planned or even wanted, because of the portion sizes and/or because of what the people I'm with (who are also influenced unconsciously by large portion sizes, of course) are doing.
I'm old enough to remember how, over the course of the 1980s, everything in American restaurants got bigger: the plates, the bowls, the glasses, and the portions of food and drink that were served in them. It was striking, and weird. The simultaneous increase in obesity seemed pretty obviously correlated.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:51 PM on July 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
What's so awful about large portions? Assuming you have someplace to refrigerate your food, it's just a better deal.
Let's see here:
- Many people struggle with portion control, shoving a family-sized meal for one in front of them does not exactly help.
- Quality over quantity. I'd personally rather have a modest well-prepared meal than a giant pile of mediocre fried food.
- Not everyone has ready access to a fridge. I frequently travel for work and deal with this all the time.
Honestly I find the whole value obsession with food in the US baffling, and I say this as an American (albeit one who does not live in the US). Feels like there's often an obsession with getting the most bang in calories for your buck with food quality and dining experience an afterthought. Kind of tails well with the recent post on restaurant noise being used to flip tables more quickly. It's all about money.
posted by photo guy at 2:38 PM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
Let's see here:
- Many people struggle with portion control, shoving a family-sized meal for one in front of them does not exactly help.
- Quality over quantity. I'd personally rather have a modest well-prepared meal than a giant pile of mediocre fried food.
- Not everyone has ready access to a fridge. I frequently travel for work and deal with this all the time.
Honestly I find the whole value obsession with food in the US baffling, and I say this as an American (albeit one who does not live in the US). Feels like there's often an obsession with getting the most bang in calories for your buck with food quality and dining experience an afterthought. Kind of tails well with the recent post on restaurant noise being used to flip tables more quickly. It's all about money.
posted by photo guy at 2:38 PM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
One of the many excellent reasons to be a supporter of the Maximum Fun podcast network is for access to the Greatest Generation spinoff podcast Factory Seconds, whose hosts are working their way through the vast CF menu and reviewing the experience. It looks like there’s a freebie episode available to sample (as it were).
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:01 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:01 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
That's a them problem. Stay home if you're that precious and insecure.
Hey, this is needlessly and cruelly dismissive of the way our society gives people disordered and damaging relationships to food.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:04 PM on July 28, 2023 [23 favorites]
Hey, this is needlessly and cruelly dismissive of the way our society gives people disordered and damaging relationships to food.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:04 PM on July 28, 2023 [23 favorites]
Thanks, Horace Rumpole. That was a weirdly callous comment. As I mentioned, there is research supporting the fact that overeating because of contextual influences is a very widespread phenomenon. Maybe people who don't know about this should look into it rather than sneer at it.
People could also look into the way that farm subsidies for certain crops (wheat, corn, soy, and a few others) have created gluts of certain products, leading to lots of underpriced, low-nutrition, generally carb-heavy processed foods, and indirectly contributing to this issue of oversized restaurant portions.
Our food system has been f'ed up for decades, and it's failing a lot of people. Blaming individuals for having trouble dealing with it is pretty misguided.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:28 PM on July 28, 2023 [8 favorites]
People could also look into the way that farm subsidies for certain crops (wheat, corn, soy, and a few others) have created gluts of certain products, leading to lots of underpriced, low-nutrition, generally carb-heavy processed foods, and indirectly contributing to this issue of oversized restaurant portions.
Our food system has been f'ed up for decades, and it's failing a lot of people. Blaming individuals for having trouble dealing with it is pretty misguided.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:28 PM on July 28, 2023 [8 favorites]
Because I'm a fan of them and seek them out, I can assure you there are still family-owned Greek diners all over the NYC metropolitan area (mostly on Long Island and in New Jersey) with everything on the menu.
Hong Kong–style cafés too. RIP Oakland's Rainbow Café: it was open late and had 400 items on the menu (I counted).
posted by aws17576 at 4:51 PM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hong Kong–style cafés too. RIP Oakland's Rainbow Café: it was open late and had 400 items on the menu (I counted).
posted by aws17576 at 4:51 PM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
claiming
The word 'trauma' occurs exactly once in this thread. (Well, twice, now.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:02 PM on July 28, 2023
The word 'trauma' occurs exactly once in this thread. (Well, twice, now.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:02 PM on July 28, 2023
Cheesecake Factory is built on trauma. Workers there face a reduced lifespan from the dreaded Marscapone Lung.
posted by dr_dank at 5:38 PM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 5:38 PM on July 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
Who ordered the toxic discourse plate with a side of sociopathy? Anyone? I don’t think anyone ordered that. I guess just take it back to the kitchen? I’m pretty sure no one wants it at this table.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:53 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:53 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
"The first one I did was number six, out here in Newport Beach."
This location (Fashion Island) closed this year. We went a couple of times, mostly after we found a tiny outdoor balcony hidden behind the bar. There was room for no more than 4 tables - maybe 8 people total - and a mansion-grade view of the Pacific Ocean.
posted by mmrtnt at 6:09 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
This location (Fashion Island) closed this year. We went a couple of times, mostly after we found a tiny outdoor balcony hidden behind the bar. There was room for no more than 4 tables - maybe 8 people total - and a mansion-grade view of the Pacific Ocean.
posted by mmrtnt at 6:09 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
The question of portion sizes and 'value' is an issue because we are basically living in a depression while pretending we aren't living in a depression.
As someone said above, the prices of protein and vegetables are going up all over while wages are going down. Often, when you are served a ridiculously sized meal at a place like this, usually the size of the protein and vegetables is actually normal or even small - but they fill the plate with cheap-to-produce carbohydrates to make people feel like they are getting good value for their money, because they are charging the earth for a meal that has increased its prices 200% in five or ten years.
And people need to take that food home because most people in America are currently some version of food insecure. Even though the extra food is often just those cheap carbs, because they can't afford to do otherwise, having spent a decent portion of the grocery budget on eating out for that evening.
I remember twenty years ago being able to go out to eat casually and order whatever I wanted on an entry level salary. That is no longer the case for myself or for anyone else I know.
posted by corb at 6:10 PM on July 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
As someone said above, the prices of protein and vegetables are going up all over while wages are going down. Often, when you are served a ridiculously sized meal at a place like this, usually the size of the protein and vegetables is actually normal or even small - but they fill the plate with cheap-to-produce carbohydrates to make people feel like they are getting good value for their money, because they are charging the earth for a meal that has increased its prices 200% in five or ten years.
And people need to take that food home because most people in America are currently some version of food insecure. Even though the extra food is often just those cheap carbs, because they can't afford to do otherwise, having spent a decent portion of the grocery budget on eating out for that evening.
I remember twenty years ago being able to go out to eat casually and order whatever I wanted on an entry level salary. That is no longer the case for myself or for anyone else I know.
posted by corb at 6:10 PM on July 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
Mod note: Couple of comments removed for being hateful and insensitive, per the Content Policy.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:11 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:11 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised most of the menu is made from scratch. The one time we ate there everything was over salted.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:40 PM on July 28, 2023
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:40 PM on July 28, 2023
I've been at least a couple times. The most memorable thing about the place I found was how unmemorable it all was. I don't recall having anything other than decent food. The menu was extensive, but I never realized that was unusually impressive.
It seems like a good place to go if you need a generic food setting. But generally not a go-to destination for me.
Who ordered the toxic discourse plate with a side of sociopathy? Anyone? I don’t think anyone ordered that. I guess just take it back to the kitchen? I’m pretty sure no one wants it at this table.
With a heaping plate, every second uneaten food is in front of me is a second I have to repress my base urge to keep eating. If you think this is ridiculous, you are part of the problem.
C'mon. If you're going to start wagging your finger about toxic discourse, a good start would be to not pin your food issues, awful as they may be, on the rest of the world, way up thread. Whether I think your issues are ridiculous or not, those issues are not in any way my responsibility. They're not even the Cheesecake Factory's responsibility. It is not hateful or insensitive to think your blame is misplaced.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:11 PM on July 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
It seems like a good place to go if you need a generic food setting. But generally not a go-to destination for me.
Who ordered the toxic discourse plate with a side of sociopathy? Anyone? I don’t think anyone ordered that. I guess just take it back to the kitchen? I’m pretty sure no one wants it at this table.
With a heaping plate, every second uneaten food is in front of me is a second I have to repress my base urge to keep eating. If you think this is ridiculous, you are part of the problem.
C'mon. If you're going to start wagging your finger about toxic discourse, a good start would be to not pin your food issues, awful as they may be, on the rest of the world, way up thread. Whether I think your issues are ridiculous or not, those issues are not in any way my responsibility. They're not even the Cheesecake Factory's responsibility. It is not hateful or insensitive to think your blame is misplaced.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:11 PM on July 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's just plain ignorant to disregard the research that shows how much environmental cues, including portion sizes, influence how much people eat.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:26 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:26 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
The insidiousness of the status quo isn't that it merely is. It's that it tacitly justifies itself with the fact that it is.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 12:46 AM on July 29, 2023
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 12:46 AM on July 29, 2023
IMO, they have recently decreased the size of their standard portions in the past years.
I went there recently for the first time in a long time and I was struck by this too. The portions have definitely gotten smaller.
Their cheesecake slices have gotten smaller as well. Also bummed that they discontinued their Flying Gorilla cocktail a while back.
Other than that though, I can't say I've had that many issues with them (aside from the occasional long wait time to be seated, though of course that depends on the time/location). It's a good place to go with your parents or your longtime partner. And as noted above, sometimes it's handy to get two-meals-in-one from them.
(And speaking of Rainforest Cafe, RIP to the one that used to be by Fisherman's Wharf, even if it did seem like a tourist trap. At least I have my memories, and my RC glass).
posted by gtrwolf at 12:56 AM on July 29, 2023
I went there recently for the first time in a long time and I was struck by this too. The portions have definitely gotten smaller.
Their cheesecake slices have gotten smaller as well. Also bummed that they discontinued their Flying Gorilla cocktail a while back.
Other than that though, I can't say I've had that many issues with them (aside from the occasional long wait time to be seated, though of course that depends on the time/location). It's a good place to go with your parents or your longtime partner. And as noted above, sometimes it's handy to get two-meals-in-one from them.
(And speaking of Rainforest Cafe, RIP to the one that used to be by Fisherman's Wharf, even if it did seem like a tourist trap. At least I have my memories, and my RC glass).
posted by gtrwolf at 12:56 AM on July 29, 2023
On what econometric basis would you say that?
This is a little tough because I know what you're saying, but I absolutely agree with corb. Before the recent inflation, we were in an economy where it was much cheaper to buy bad food that would kill you, and more expensive to buy healthy food. Right? That's unquestionable, it's just a basic part of what living under American farm policy means. And now that's gotten worse, because even the cheap terrible food is exorbitant! For most of us, wage growth hasn't come anywhere near to covering inflation...and now that growth is slowing anyway, so the chances are slim that we'll get that spending power back. So the economy is doing great, and the shitty carbs are all we can afford, and even those are getting out of reach.
It's setting those ideas next to each other, that makes the economy feel like a game of pretend.
posted by mittens at 6:08 AM on July 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is a little tough because I know what you're saying, but I absolutely agree with corb. Before the recent inflation, we were in an economy where it was much cheaper to buy bad food that would kill you, and more expensive to buy healthy food. Right? That's unquestionable, it's just a basic part of what living under American farm policy means. And now that's gotten worse, because even the cheap terrible food is exorbitant! For most of us, wage growth hasn't come anywhere near to covering inflation...and now that growth is slowing anyway, so the chances are slim that we'll get that spending power back. So the economy is doing great, and the shitty carbs are all we can afford, and even those are getting out of reach.
It's setting those ideas next to each other, that makes the economy feel like a game of pretend.
posted by mittens at 6:08 AM on July 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
From an openly conservative think-tank:
The Cost-of-Thriving Index (COTI) offers a better way to understand the challenge for working families. It avoids reliance on inflation adjustments by instead focusing on the ratio of nominal costs to nominal wages in each year. The Index measures the number of weeks a typical worker would need to work in a given year to earn enough income to cover the major costs for a family of four in the American middle class in that year: Food, Housing, Health Care, Transportation, and Higher Education.
In 1985, COTI was 39.7. Costs totaled $17,586, while median weekly income for a man aged 25 or older working full-time was $443 ($23,036 per year).
In 2022, COTI was 62.1. Costs totaled $75,732, while median weekly income for a man aged 25 or older working full-time was $1,219 ($63,388 per year).
Given the source, that is before digging into what happens if you're a minority single parent in a high cost of living city, or have consumer debt to service. And allows nothing for child care, education before college, or retirement planning aside from social security. Regarding the tendency to focus on inflation figures for comparison of earnings:
Measures of inflation try to detect the change in cost for the exact same set of things. That’s enormously important data if you are trying to assess the broader economy’s behavior. But it tells you little about the cost of living as experienced by someone trying to support a family, who cannot simply continue to buy the same things, and who would not remain in the middle class if he did.
When inflation-adjusted figures report that a 2022 earner could afford roughly what a 1985 earner could, that assumes the 2022 earner still plans to drive a 1985 car, live in a 1985 house, watch a 1985 television, and receive 1985 medical care. That’s not possible, nor is it what being “middle class” in 2022 means. Consider instead the costs of a 2022 car, a 2022 house, a 2022 television, and 2022 medical care—the things a 2022 middle-class family should be able to afford—and the picture looks quite different.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:27 AM on July 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
The Cost-of-Thriving Index (COTI) offers a better way to understand the challenge for working families. It avoids reliance on inflation adjustments by instead focusing on the ratio of nominal costs to nominal wages in each year. The Index measures the number of weeks a typical worker would need to work in a given year to earn enough income to cover the major costs for a family of four in the American middle class in that year: Food, Housing, Health Care, Transportation, and Higher Education.
In 1985, COTI was 39.7. Costs totaled $17,586, while median weekly income for a man aged 25 or older working full-time was $443 ($23,036 per year).
In 2022, COTI was 62.1. Costs totaled $75,732, while median weekly income for a man aged 25 or older working full-time was $1,219 ($63,388 per year).
Given the source, that is before digging into what happens if you're a minority single parent in a high cost of living city, or have consumer debt to service. And allows nothing for child care, education before college, or retirement planning aside from social security. Regarding the tendency to focus on inflation figures for comparison of earnings:
Measures of inflation try to detect the change in cost for the exact same set of things. That’s enormously important data if you are trying to assess the broader economy’s behavior. But it tells you little about the cost of living as experienced by someone trying to support a family, who cannot simply continue to buy the same things, and who would not remain in the middle class if he did.
When inflation-adjusted figures report that a 2022 earner could afford roughly what a 1985 earner could, that assumes the 2022 earner still plans to drive a 1985 car, live in a 1985 house, watch a 1985 television, and receive 1985 medical care. That’s not possible, nor is it what being “middle class” in 2022 means. Consider instead the costs of a 2022 car, a 2022 house, a 2022 television, and 2022 medical care—the things a 2022 middle-class family should be able to afford—and the picture looks quite different.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:27 AM on July 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
On the portion size…I’m used to Toronto-sized portions. Food has in general been more expensive up here, as is labour (also less under-the-table employment) and in Toronto definitely, rent. There are places you can get a lot of (insert type) rice in particular as a side, for sure. And because we have American chains* we are familiar with the supersize thing.
But as a consequence the calculus people have been using here - value, 3 days of leftovers - isn’t anywhere near as common. I learned it from my parents. But for a dine-in experience, for my friends anyway, it’s just…not a thing. If you need food for days you don’t go to a restaurant. You don’t go to a restaurant to stuff yourself. You go because it’s good, or relaxing. I’ve never been to a Cheesecake Factory but I was just in Wisconsin and I couldn’t finish a single meal I had at a restaurant completely - and I’m no slouch in the eating department.
It’s a cultural nuance, not an imperative but I find it really interesting. To me it reads a lot like scarcity mentality, that you need a heaping plate to feel good, or that “value” is defined as “quantity.”
* however, a lot of American chains come up here and die, like Olive Garden. Our labour and dairy are significantly more expensive and I think it’s hard for some American firms to do the math.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:50 AM on July 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
But as a consequence the calculus people have been using here - value, 3 days of leftovers - isn’t anywhere near as common. I learned it from my parents. But for a dine-in experience, for my friends anyway, it’s just…not a thing. If you need food for days you don’t go to a restaurant. You don’t go to a restaurant to stuff yourself. You go because it’s good, or relaxing. I’ve never been to a Cheesecake Factory but I was just in Wisconsin and I couldn’t finish a single meal I had at a restaurant completely - and I’m no slouch in the eating department.
It’s a cultural nuance, not an imperative but I find it really interesting. To me it reads a lot like scarcity mentality, that you need a heaping plate to feel good, or that “value” is defined as “quantity.”
* however, a lot of American chains come up here and die, like Olive Garden. Our labour and dairy are significantly more expensive and I think it’s hard for some American firms to do the math.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:50 AM on July 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
"except for the hugeness of the portions. Noise and piggish excess, that's my main impression."
"The big aversion I have to Cheescake Factory is being delivered a plate of food that is really all the food I would need to eat for the day. American restos, particularly chains, just keep putting out these enormous trenchers of food, like, "good fucking luck" and "of course, sir, you can get 2/3 of your meal to go." It's kind of gross, really."
This is why I asked what was so awful about large portions, and frankly, I thought there were more people talking like that. The expression seemed to be moralism and disgust.
It's a good thing I asked. People do have good internal reasons, though I still think I wouldn't want to eat with people who are disgusted by large portions.
I'm mildly bemused by "appetizers" which are big enough to be most of a meal, but I order two of them and no entree.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:09 AM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
"The big aversion I have to Cheescake Factory is being delivered a plate of food that is really all the food I would need to eat for the day. American restos, particularly chains, just keep putting out these enormous trenchers of food, like, "good fucking luck" and "of course, sir, you can get 2/3 of your meal to go." It's kind of gross, really."
This is why I asked what was so awful about large portions, and frankly, I thought there were more people talking like that. The expression seemed to be moralism and disgust.
It's a good thing I asked. People do have good internal reasons, though I still think I wouldn't want to eat with people who are disgusted by large portions.
I'm mildly bemused by "appetizers" which are big enough to be most of a meal, but I order two of them and no entree.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:09 AM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Is there a good reason to trust American Compass? It looks like a hastily constructed attempt at Trump-style populism without Trump.
posted by Selena777 at 7:19 AM on July 29, 2023
posted by Selena777 at 7:19 AM on July 29, 2023
That was sort of the point. They're straight-up AEI-style capitalist conservatives, as much as you find within the Trump camp, and that's what even they're saying about cost of living and wage stagnation.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:26 AM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:26 AM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Do you think they believe it at all?
posted by Selena777 at 7:33 AM on July 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 7:33 AM on July 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Who cares? Anyway, this thread is about the Cheesecake Factory.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:42 AM on July 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:42 AM on July 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think it’s hard for some American firms to do the math.
Well you insist on using different money for some reason. It’s very confusing.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:46 PM on July 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well you insist on using different money for some reason. It’s very confusing.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:46 PM on July 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
My dad, after he retired, played tennis in a local club.
A couple times he played against an high-level executive from Cheesecake Factory. According to him, though they decorate them a bit, the cheesecakes in the restaurants are from the exact same distributor that provides cheesecakes to Walmart.
posted by Norton Glover at 5:17 PM on July 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
A couple times he played against an high-level executive from Cheesecake Factory. According to him, though they decorate them a bit, the cheesecakes in the restaurants are from the exact same distributor that provides cheesecakes to Walmart.
posted by Norton Glover at 5:17 PM on July 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you need food for days you don’t go to a restaurant. You don’t go to a restaurant to stuff yourself. You go because it’s good, or relaxing.
You're right. People don't usually go out to get days worth of food. But if your grocery/food budget is tight, large portions with another meal or two or leftovers let you go out for the other reasons, whatever they are.
Ideally there's a way to let people on a budget go out and let people who want smaller portion sizes get those (and make sure everyone at the restaurant earn a living wage, of course).
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:29 PM on July 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
You're right. People don't usually go out to get days worth of food. But if your grocery/food budget is tight, large portions with another meal or two or leftovers let you go out for the other reasons, whatever they are.
Ideally there's a way to let people on a budget go out and let people who want smaller portion sizes get those (and make sure everyone at the restaurant earn a living wage, of course).
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:29 PM on July 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
the cheesecakes in the restaurants are from the exact same distributor that provides cheesecakes to Walmart.
That may be true, but it does not mean they're the same. Walmart's obsession with price means that their versions of products are often shittier than the "same" versions purchased elsewhere (plastic gears instead of metal, etc.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:53 PM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
That may be true, but it does not mean they're the same. Walmart's obsession with price means that their versions of products are often shittier than the "same" versions purchased elsewhere (plastic gears instead of metal, etc.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:53 PM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ideally there's a way to let people on a budget go out and let people who want smaller portion sizes get those (and make sure everyone at the restaurant earn a living wage, of course).
I’m behind that.
But I do still think it’s a cultural thing, not a logic or think of those with tight budgets thing. It’s always hard to explain, especially online, but when I’m in a restaurant with huge portions it feels weird to me. I was thinking about this on a train last night, because I’m back in Toronto and had dinner out with friends and could finish it fine, plus this thread.
I think when it’s more food than I can reasonably eat — when every meal is geared towards really big — I feel like the restaurant is handing me a excess/waste issue. Either I have to ask them to please not put so much potato on my plate,* or I know a chunk of food is getting binned, which also makes me think about how much food in the whole place is getting binned due to portion size, or I have to bring leftovers home…which can be nice but mostly is weird; when am I going to put 1/2 order of fries and 1/3 of an oversized veggie burger on the table with the family meal, or am I going to take them to work?
Plus…what’s most likely to happen is it becomes a snack, and that’s where it kind of becomes excess carried on my body. No one, to be clear, is making me eat it. But I feel like that excess - unlike a normal mismatch between served food and appetite - is a part of a culture of excess that just feels wrong.
I admit I am weird and don’t love the whole eat in thing.
I will actively avoid CF after this thread, which is easy to do. :)
* Sometimes when I’ve said “can I have half the usual amount of hash browns” (which I love, I don’t want to have none) I’ve gotten extra other things added! Like nooooooo.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:19 AM on July 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
I’m behind that.
But I do still think it’s a cultural thing, not a logic or think of those with tight budgets thing. It’s always hard to explain, especially online, but when I’m in a restaurant with huge portions it feels weird to me. I was thinking about this on a train last night, because I’m back in Toronto and had dinner out with friends and could finish it fine, plus this thread.
I think when it’s more food than I can reasonably eat — when every meal is geared towards really big — I feel like the restaurant is handing me a excess/waste issue. Either I have to ask them to please not put so much potato on my plate,* or I know a chunk of food is getting binned, which also makes me think about how much food in the whole place is getting binned due to portion size, or I have to bring leftovers home…which can be nice but mostly is weird; when am I going to put 1/2 order of fries and 1/3 of an oversized veggie burger on the table with the family meal, or am I going to take them to work?
Plus…what’s most likely to happen is it becomes a snack, and that’s where it kind of becomes excess carried on my body. No one, to be clear, is making me eat it. But I feel like that excess - unlike a normal mismatch between served food and appetite - is a part of a culture of excess that just feels wrong.
I admit I am weird and don’t love the whole eat in thing.
I will actively avoid CF after this thread, which is easy to do. :)
* Sometimes when I’ve said “can I have half the usual amount of hash browns” (which I love, I don’t want to have none) I’ve gotten extra other things added! Like nooooooo.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:19 AM on July 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
But I do still think it’s a cultural thing, not a logic or think of those with tight budgets thing
I can definitely see how it's cultural, both on a population scale and the micro family scale. For most of my childhood, my parents had opposite schedules during the week to minimize needing childcare, so leftovers (from a restaurant or regular dinner) were a great lunch option for them/ easy dinner for my dad getting home after we'd been put to bed. Then when we were older there were usually a few days a week where we (the kids) had different after school activities, so there wasn't a time we were all home for a family meal. So having 1/3 of whatever wouldn't be weird since you were eating at a different time. It also helps that my parents weren't big clean your plate people at dinner time, or even you have to eat what you're served (although we had to at least try a bite of something new).
I also didn't mean to imply that large portion sizes are necessarily logically correct (they probably aren't), just in case it came across that way. Just that there is a way they aren't just a huge waste. At least not to everyone.
* Sometimes when I’ve said “can I have half the usual amount of hash browns” (which I love, I don’t want to have none) I’ve gotten extra other things added! Like nooooooo.
I totally get this! Sometimes we'll be somewhere for a quick bite in between errands so we'll split an entree, and they decide to double the side or something. It's so very nice of them but also defeats the purpose. Obviously not the worst problem and we're grateful, but as you said, nooooo.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:45 AM on July 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can definitely see how it's cultural, both on a population scale and the micro family scale. For most of my childhood, my parents had opposite schedules during the week to minimize needing childcare, so leftovers (from a restaurant or regular dinner) were a great lunch option for them/ easy dinner for my dad getting home after we'd been put to bed. Then when we were older there were usually a few days a week where we (the kids) had different after school activities, so there wasn't a time we were all home for a family meal. So having 1/3 of whatever wouldn't be weird since you were eating at a different time. It also helps that my parents weren't big clean your plate people at dinner time, or even you have to eat what you're served (although we had to at least try a bite of something new).
I also didn't mean to imply that large portion sizes are necessarily logically correct (they probably aren't), just in case it came across that way. Just that there is a way they aren't just a huge waste. At least not to everyone.
* Sometimes when I’ve said “can I have half the usual amount of hash browns” (which I love, I don’t want to have none) I’ve gotten extra other things added! Like nooooooo.
I totally get this! Sometimes we'll be somewhere for a quick bite in between errands so we'll split an entree, and they decide to double the side or something. It's so very nice of them but also defeats the purpose. Obviously not the worst problem and we're grateful, but as you said, nooooo.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:45 AM on July 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think it's hilarious how MeFi has a Cheesecake Factory post at least once every 1-2 years. Personally I think it used to be really good back in the 2000s, my mom and I could split one entree and a couple of appetizers and it was a really great deal, and the interior decor was fun in a very out of place kind of way. I don't think it's worth it now for the smaller portions and how expensive it is.
posted by yueliang at 11:53 AM on July 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by yueliang at 11:53 AM on July 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
I quite enjoyed my one time at a Cheesecake Factory outside of DC. I will not be convinced otherwise.
posted by some loser at 7:21 AM on July 31, 2023
posted by some loser at 7:21 AM on July 31, 2023
Given the source, that is before digging into what happens if you're a minority single parent in a high cost of living city, or have consumer debt to service. And allows nothing for child care, education before college, or retirement planning aside from social security. Regarding the tendency to focus on inflation figures for comparison of earnings:
If you are going to post such things, it's probably really important to go to the actual graph that shows most of that cost differential is due to health care, up 10X, and education, up 5X. Food is up about 3X, 2nd least only to transporation (2.5X). So food is barely above the rate of CPI inflation, for higher quality food than 1985 (I was there, it's not comparable), at 2.85%.
.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:35 AM on July 31, 2023
If you are going to post such things, it's probably really important to go to the actual graph that shows most of that cost differential is due to health care, up 10X, and education, up 5X. Food is up about 3X, 2nd least only to transporation (2.5X). So food is barely above the rate of CPI inflation, for higher quality food than 1985 (I was there, it's not comparable), at 2.85%.
.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:35 AM on July 31, 2023
Also declaring that a 2023 'middle class' should be equal to a 1985 middle class, when 2023 housing is like 1000 sq ft larger, food is way higher quality, transportation is far more reliable is an idea. Not a good one, but it's an idea. It probably has something to do with increasing income inequality, something conservatives have worked to achieve the past 30 years. Is that report humble bragging or something?
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:39 AM on July 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:39 AM on July 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was there too, and disagree with you. So there's your anecdata disposed of. The education provided for in that chart is explicitly higher education. This is an undifferentiated national survey and in lots of the country the food situation hasn't improved. In lots of markets the housing people can actually afford is not larger for the equivalent amount of money; whatever the stats skewed by exurban McMansion development suggest. However, the blurb itself points out that in most cases it wouldn't be desirable to have the 1985 version of a thing (like a car) and if you could buy one it would no longer be 'middle class.' And once again, the point was in part the cognitive dissonance given the source.
Whether or not you think people should aspire to some level of consumerist attainment is another discussion, the discussion was about why people feel stretched regardless of what the simplistic definition of recession says. I have work to do today and am not going to entertain any more of this nitpicking.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:31 AM on July 31, 2023
Whether or not you think people should aspire to some level of consumerist attainment is another discussion, the discussion was about why people feel stretched regardless of what the simplistic definition of recession says. I have work to do today and am not going to entertain any more of this nitpicking.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:31 AM on July 31, 2023
There are quantitative approaches to answering this "are we better off" question. Most obviously, the UN Human Development Index, which attempts to quantify health, education, and standard of living. The United States has seen a pretty consistent increase over the past 30 years (with notable exceptions corresponding to economic shocks).
posted by mr_roboto at 1:17 PM on July 31, 2023
posted by mr_roboto at 1:17 PM on July 31, 2023
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So you're telling me these Cheesecakes were made somewhere else, like a factory?
posted by pwnguin at 12:20 AM on July 28, 2023 [57 favorites]