why, yes... yes we are.
April 9, 2006 10:44 AM Subscribe
Speaking as a Canadian who is fond of judicious language, I feel that this situation deserves careful and measured thought. So let me just open with: Is your entire fucking country on crack?
This post was deleted for the following reason: this is just some blog post, from something from TPMCafe, and about iraq, yet.
And the 30-some-odd percent who are still insane enough to think they're doing a good job of it.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:54 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:54 AM on April 9, 2006
And the people who put them there. And the people who don't want them gone.
posted by secret about box at 10:54 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by secret about box at 10:54 AM on April 9, 2006
A link to a blog entry, which consists of a verbatim quote from a reply to another blog entry...
MetaChat would love it, but c'mon man, try again.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 10:55 AM on April 9, 2006
MetaChat would love it, but c'mon man, try again.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 10:55 AM on April 9, 2006
I'm sure this will work.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 10:55 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by Baby_Balrog at 10:55 AM on April 9, 2006
Regime change starts at home. Thread closure in T minus 30, 29, 28...
posted by squirrel at 10:56 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by squirrel at 10:56 AM on April 9, 2006
MetaChat would love it, but c'mon man, try again.
Are you kidding? Metachat would probably ignore this post.
posted by interrobang at 10:58 AM on April 9, 2006
Are you kidding? Metachat would probably ignore this post.
posted by interrobang at 10:58 AM on April 9, 2006
Just because it's a blog comment, does NOT mean that it's not extremely intelligent and well-written -- and also a wake-up call.
I for one have gotten so used to the screwed-up nature of this government and its ability to wreak havoc that I had rather forgotten how much awful things would be if the US invaded Iran.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:59 AM on April 9, 2006
I for one have gotten so used to the screwed-up nature of this government and its ability to wreak havoc that I had rather forgotten how much awful things would be if the US invaded Iran.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:59 AM on April 9, 2006
What's wrong with crack?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:01 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:01 AM on April 9, 2006
While there's plenty of drug references, there aren't enough bunnies, kittens or puppies for it to be suitable for MeCha.
And what lupus_yonderboy said.
posted by loquacious at 11:01 AM on April 9, 2006
And what lupus_yonderboy said.
posted by loquacious at 11:01 AM on April 9, 2006
Hey wow, this guy sounds like a real expert! Maybe it's time we stop giving George Bush our unquestioning support. Huh. Canadians are smart!
Fuck that asshole.
posted by thirteenkiller at 11:02 AM on April 9, 2006
Fuck that asshole.
posted by thirteenkiller at 11:02 AM on April 9, 2006
The case for invading iran is far stronger, in my mind, then the case for invading Iraq.
I was against the Iraq war, but a war in Iran I would be a lot more ambivalent about, at least now. It seems like everyone believes Iran has a nuclear weapons program of some sort. On the other hand, it seems like we have plenty of time to try to stop them. Hopefully before then they'll realize that they are crazy and let weapons inspectors in to try to stop 'em.
posted by delmoi at 11:06 AM on April 9, 2006
I was against the Iraq war, but a war in Iran I would be a lot more ambivalent about, at least now. It seems like everyone believes Iran has a nuclear weapons program of some sort. On the other hand, it seems like we have plenty of time to try to stop them. Hopefully before then they'll realize that they are crazy and let weapons inspectors in to try to stop 'em.
posted by delmoi at 11:06 AM on April 9, 2006
I sure am glad those Canadians are up there to tell us how to think. Jeez! What would I do without their brilliant commentary?
posted by Baby_Balrog at 11:08 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by Baby_Balrog at 11:08 AM on April 9, 2006
From the site:
That's just silly. China is not just going to invade those places on a whim (especially not south Korea, wtf?). A good majority of Taiwanese support some form of peaceful re-unification with China. The Chinese threat in Asia is more theoretical then anything else.
posted by delmoi at 11:09 AM on April 9, 2006
That's just silly. China is not just going to invade those places on a whim (especially not south Korea, wtf?). A good majority of Taiwanese support some form of peaceful re-unification with China. The Chinese threat in Asia is more theoretical then anything else.
posted by delmoi at 11:09 AM on April 9, 2006
We'll a goodly chunk of it is sucking on the McJesus crack pipe it's true. The rest are on an admixture of alcohol, caffeine, anti-depressants and internet porn trying to keep body and soul together and ride out the nightmare that is this presidency.
posted by Skygazer at 11:10 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by Skygazer at 11:10 AM on April 9, 2006
*applause*
Well said, that man.
I don't hate the whole country. Just the morons in charge. Oh, and the morons who voted for them. And the morons who couldn't be bothered to vote against them. And the Democrats who are too chickenshit to put up a proper opposition. And the morons who continue to put their faith in the Democrats ever finding their balls. And the media, the religious crackpots and the Libertarian political crackpots.
Er, anyone I've forgotten?
posted by salmacis at 11:12 AM on April 9, 2006
Well said, that man.
I don't hate the whole country. Just the morons in charge. Oh, and the morons who voted for them. And the morons who couldn't be bothered to vote against them. And the Democrats who are too chickenshit to put up a proper opposition. And the morons who continue to put their faith in the Democrats ever finding their balls. And the media, the religious crackpots and the Libertarian political crackpots.
Er, anyone I've forgotten?
posted by salmacis at 11:12 AM on April 9, 2006
It seems like everyone believes Iran has a nuclear weapons program of some sort.
I heard America has nuclear weapons, also, not to mention a warmongering religious cook for a leader. Someone should bomb the shit out of those crazy fuckers.
As Scott Ritter, a former Marine and someone who helped lead the UN weapons inspections of Iraq, explains Iran is doing nothing illegal. {quicktime}
posted by dobbs at 11:17 AM on April 9, 2006
I heard America has nuclear weapons, also, not to mention a warmongering religious cook for a leader. Someone should bomb the shit out of those crazy fuckers.
As Scott Ritter, a former Marine and someone who helped lead the UN weapons inspections of Iraq, explains Iran is doing nothing illegal. {quicktime}
posted by dobbs at 11:17 AM on April 9, 2006
So if you're Iran and you're thinking of maybe having nuclear weapons, you become the next big threat, if you're India and you openly flaunt your working nuclear arsenal, you get a shiny new trade deal?
Basically playing ball economically with the US has much more to do with how you're treated than anything else. It's so transparent it's rather sick.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:29 AM on April 9, 2006
Basically playing ball economically with the US has much more to do with how you're treated than anything else. It's so transparent it's rather sick.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:29 AM on April 9, 2006
I sure am glad those Canadians are up there to tell us how to think. Jeez! What would I do without their brilliant commentary?
Well, you've sure done some impressive shit in the last six years without any help from anyone else, haven't you? Your sarcasm is entirely misplaced.
posted by Decani at 11:33 AM on April 9, 2006
Well, you've sure done some impressive shit in the last six years without any help from anyone else, haven't you? Your sarcasm is entirely misplaced.
posted by Decani at 11:33 AM on April 9, 2006
I was against the Iraq war, but a war in Iran I would be a lot more ambivalent about, at least now. It seems like everyone believes Iran has a nuclear weapons program of some sort.
Yeah, and everyone believed Iraq had WMDs, remember?
I will agree that Iran has a NUCLEAR PROGRAM. Nuclear energy reduces a country's dependance on oil. I have been campaigning locally for years to refocus the USA's nuclear energy program on safety instead of inexpensiveness. Is Iran trying to build nuclear weapons? Maybe, but so has Pakistan and India and China and, hell, us. Last time I checked, Iran ran democratic, free elections, so we don't have that excuse either. Please, someone tell me the pros for this situation.
posted by muddgirl at 11:35 AM on April 9, 2006
Yeah, and everyone believed Iraq had WMDs, remember?
I will agree that Iran has a NUCLEAR PROGRAM. Nuclear energy reduces a country's dependance on oil. I have been campaigning locally for years to refocus the USA's nuclear energy program on safety instead of inexpensiveness. Is Iran trying to build nuclear weapons? Maybe, but so has Pakistan and India and China and, hell, us. Last time I checked, Iran ran democratic, free elections, so we don't have that excuse either. Please, someone tell me the pros for this situation.
posted by muddgirl at 11:35 AM on April 9, 2006
China is not just going to invade those places on a whim (especially not south Korea, wtf?)
It's not on a whim. It is in response to a direct attack on the Chinese Economy.
When in doubt, follow the oil. China need oil, and one of China's best sources is Iran (and, unlike the US, the Chinese can get Mideast Oil without tankers.)
The US attacking Iran has a very good chance of taking Iran's oil off the market for a period of time. This would be very, very bad for the US, but far worse for the Chinese, who really can't use Canadian, Mexican and Venezualian sources at anywhere near the same cost as they can use Iranian sources.
So. US starts bombing Iran. Iran shuts down the Straits. The US shuts down the Iranian oil prodcution. China is now in an energy crunch.
The Chinese reponse? I don't know, but I'm certain that it will hurt the US badly.
posted by eriko at 11:40 AM on April 9, 2006
It's not on a whim. It is in response to a direct attack on the Chinese Economy.
When in doubt, follow the oil. China need oil, and one of China's best sources is Iran (and, unlike the US, the Chinese can get Mideast Oil without tankers.)
The US attacking Iran has a very good chance of taking Iran's oil off the market for a period of time. This would be very, very bad for the US, but far worse for the Chinese, who really can't use Canadian, Mexican and Venezualian sources at anywhere near the same cost as they can use Iranian sources.
So. US starts bombing Iran. Iran shuts down the Straits. The US shuts down the Iranian oil prodcution. China is now in an energy crunch.
The Chinese reponse? I don't know, but I'm certain that it will hurt the US badly.
posted by eriko at 11:40 AM on April 9, 2006
delmoi: are YOU on crack? Iran is bigger than Iraq, has a larger army and a stronger economy and the US army is as week as it's ever been.
I never believed in the run-up to the Iraq war that we would LOSE, only that it would be incredibly difficult.
I fully believe, that an invasion of Iran would be a disaster of epic purportions, unless we engage in a bombing campaign that kills millions of people. I don't believe that I could any longer consider myself a citizen of a country that instigated that kind of wholesale slaughter.
posted by empath at 11:42 AM on April 9, 2006
I never believed in the run-up to the Iraq war that we would LOSE, only that it would be incredibly difficult.
I fully believe, that an invasion of Iran would be a disaster of epic purportions, unless we engage in a bombing campaign that kills millions of people. I don't believe that I could any longer consider myself a citizen of a country that instigated that kind of wholesale slaughter.
posted by empath at 11:42 AM on April 9, 2006
Pay attention: this is why Republicans will win in '08.
posted by Krrrlson at 11:42 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by Krrrlson at 11:42 AM on April 9, 2006
Last time I checked, Iran ran democratic, free elections, so we don't have that excuse either.
Check again.
Not that I am saying that it is a good idea to invade Iran, just that don't pretend Iran is any better or worse than it actually is.
posted by Falconetti at 11:48 AM on April 9, 2006
Check again.
Not that I am saying that it is a good idea to invade Iran, just that don't pretend Iran is any better or worse than it actually is.
posted by Falconetti at 11:48 AM on April 9, 2006
Too funny. The guy who runs Brainshrub lives here in Asheville and regularly attends Drinking Liberally. Quite a knowledgable and interesting chap.
posted by moonbird at 11:55 AM on April 9, 2006
posted by moonbird at 11:55 AM on April 9, 2006
Yep, delmoi. Iran, then N. Korea, who was on the list again?
We kicked ass in Iraq, let's finish the job on the axis of evil.
Shit.
posted by magpie68 at 11:56 AM on April 9, 2006
We kicked ass in Iraq, let's finish the job on the axis of evil.
Shit.
posted by magpie68 at 11:56 AM on April 9, 2006
"A good majority of Taiwanese support some form of peaceful re-unification with China."
According to the most recent polls I've seen, that "good majority" is only 22 percent of the population of Taiwan.
The Taiwanese people would like to be independent, but believe that such a move would be unrealistic and dangerous under the circumstances. They'd rather not rock the boat, and prefer maintaining the status quo. They could, perhaps, envision reunification at some very distant date in the future, but only if they had full independence and didn't feel plundered in order to support the rest of China. They don't like China's government -- or communism -- at all, and would not willingly be a part of a communist nation. Keep in mind that anti-communism is a big thing for many Taiwanese, whose families fled from the Maoists.
In other words, China would practically have to go through a revolution (or at least a Chinese equivalent of Glastnost / Peristroika) and make the reforms stick for quite awhile before most Taiwanese would feel favorably inclined.
The situation between Taiwan and China appears to be becoming even more heated than before, however.
This pressure is kept largely out of sight by our government, but China owns our debt and theoretically has our balls in a vice, so it's entirely possible that the more the US sells its economy out to China, the more likely it is that the US government will sell the Taiwanese people out.
posted by insomnia_lj at 11:56 AM on April 9, 2006
According to the most recent polls I've seen, that "good majority" is only 22 percent of the population of Taiwan.
The Taiwanese people would like to be independent, but believe that such a move would be unrealistic and dangerous under the circumstances. They'd rather not rock the boat, and prefer maintaining the status quo. They could, perhaps, envision reunification at some very distant date in the future, but only if they had full independence and didn't feel plundered in order to support the rest of China. They don't like China's government -- or communism -- at all, and would not willingly be a part of a communist nation. Keep in mind that anti-communism is a big thing for many Taiwanese, whose families fled from the Maoists.
In other words, China would practically have to go through a revolution (or at least a Chinese equivalent of Glastnost / Peristroika) and make the reforms stick for quite awhile before most Taiwanese would feel favorably inclined.
The situation between Taiwan and China appears to be becoming even more heated than before, however.
"Beijing now is taking a different approach to dealing with the Taiwan issue" argued Lo Chih-cheng from Taiwan's Institute for National Policy Research.
"They want to be the 'good cop'. They're asking Washington to be the 'bad cop'. They offer carrots to people here while pressuring the Americans to take a more hard-line approach to prevent any move towards independence."This pressure is kept largely out of sight by our government, but China owns our debt and theoretically has our balls in a vice, so it's entirely possible that the more the US sells its economy out to China, the more likely it is that the US government will sell the Taiwanese people out.
posted by insomnia_lj at 11:56 AM on April 9, 2006
Look, maybe it's a negotiating ploy for the U.S. to bring Iran to the table, but what's the use of debating the policies of a deeply flawed and incompetent administration? One that has gutted it's state department and diplomatic capability. I feel I'm not alone in this feeling. The U.S. has lost so much credibility and stature all around the world. This was the true danger of the Iraq debacle and it's coming home to roost. And that is the way this administration has put this country in truly great danger, becuase who is going to believe them now? The administration could turn around tomorrow and say they were going to put a trillion dollars into alternative energies and I might be slightly impressed, but it wouldn't mean jackshit to me because I'm sure they would find some way to fuck it up (and put the money in the coffers of Halliburton or the oil companies somehow). That Canadian is right in that this country is either on crack or performing some amazing sort of mindf*ckery upon itself.
posted by Skygazer at 12:00 PM on April 9, 2006
posted by Skygazer at 12:00 PM on April 9, 2006
Just because it's a blog comment, does NOT mean that it's not extremely intelligent and well-written -- and also a wake-up call.
Yeah, come on guys. Let's be fair. The fact that it's not extremely intelligent and well-written is what means it's not extremely intelligent and well-written. It's got nothing to do with it being a blog comment.
posted by magodesky at 12:21 PM on April 9, 2006
Yeah, come on guys. Let's be fair. The fact that it's not extremely intelligent and well-written is what means it's not extremely intelligent and well-written. It's got nothing to do with it being a blog comment.
posted by magodesky at 12:21 PM on April 9, 2006
As for the nuclear program - yes, they do. So the fuck what? Who fucking cares?
Tell that to the folks living in Israel. It blows my mind when people who are rightly disgusted with America and its policies cannot apply the critical skills they used in denouncing American action to actions in other countries. America does not have a monopoly on stupidity and evil (even though it seems that way at time). One can be against invading Iran and still be appalled at problems in Iran (and problems in America as well); three competing thoughts all at the same time!!! But it is always much easier to pretend things are profoundly simple, much like religious fundamentalists.
posted by Falconetti at 12:21 PM on April 9, 2006
Tell that to the folks living in Israel. It blows my mind when people who are rightly disgusted with America and its policies cannot apply the critical skills they used in denouncing American action to actions in other countries. America does not have a monopoly on stupidity and evil (even though it seems that way at time). One can be against invading Iran and still be appalled at problems in Iran (and problems in America as well); three competing thoughts all at the same time!!! But it is always much easier to pretend things are profoundly simple, much like religious fundamentalists.
posted by Falconetti at 12:21 PM on April 9, 2006
Should Israel be more worried about Iran's nuclear program than Iran is about Israel's nuclear program?
posted by iconjack at 12:34 PM on April 9, 2006
posted by iconjack at 12:34 PM on April 9, 2006
Tell that to the folks living in Israel.
What the fuck?! Why do we need to tell them anything? Are they a part of America? Are we serving as Israel's armed forces?
Why are you willing to sacrifice our troops, money, international standing, economy to protect a third country?
Better yet, are you enlisting?
posted by c13 at 12:48 PM on April 9, 2006
What the fuck?! Why do we need to tell them anything? Are they a part of America? Are we serving as Israel's armed forces?
Why are you willing to sacrifice our troops, money, international standing, economy to protect a third country?
Better yet, are you enlisting?
posted by c13 at 12:48 PM on April 9, 2006
I think what's so hard for us (Canadians and others) to understand is that the USA presents itself internationally as the exemplar for democracy. So if America is so democratic, how can "the people in charge" be at such odds with what the voters really want?
Basically we find it hard to believe that the hell we're marching toward is being engineered by the boys in the back room. At some level, Americans must be OK with the war because the power to stop it lies in the hands of the people. My outsider's impression is that there's lots of antiwar sentiment in the US, but not much antiwar action.
posted by 327.ca at 12:52 PM on April 9, 2006
Basically we find it hard to believe that the hell we're marching toward is being engineered by the boys in the back room. At some level, Americans must be OK with the war because the power to stop it lies in the hands of the people. My outsider's impression is that there's lots of antiwar sentiment in the US, but not much antiwar action.
posted by 327.ca at 12:52 PM on April 9, 2006
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posted by Faint of Butt at 10:49 AM on April 9, 2006