IOKIYAR

November 2, 2006 10:48 AM

Not Perfect, Just Forgiven? Could be just accusations, could be substantiated, but it sure sounds hypocritical. Ted Haggard, the evangelical with very close White House connections, accused of purchasing gay sex for over 3 years.
posted by nofundy (54 comments total)

This gay sex. . .I could PURCHASE it somewhere? Why have I not been told?
posted by Danf at 10:52 AM on November 2, 2006

If it makes you happy, yes! :-)
Pardon the phrasing but you do understand message?
posted by nofundy at 10:54 AM on November 2, 2006

Could be just accusations, could be substantiated, but it sure sounds hypocriticalhypothetical.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:55 AM on November 2, 2006

Is this the same guy that went batshit when Richard Dawkins got up in his grill?
posted by Optamystic at 11:01 AM on November 2, 2006

Link
posted by Optamystic at 11:03 AM on November 2, 2006

Yup, that's him optamystic.
From your link:

And the frighteningly charismatic leader of America's National Association of Evangelicals, who believes he has been chosen by God to convert Americans through religious gatherings that resemble rock concerts – though to Dawkins they feel more reminiscent of Nuremberg rallies.

Read the link crash, then comment. OK?
posted by nofundy at 11:09 AM on November 2, 2006

Well it's good that he's caught now because you know this sort of thing devolves rather quickly into man-on-goat matrimony.
posted by wfrgms at 11:09 AM on November 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

Found the clip.
posted by Optamystic at 11:10 AM on November 2, 2006

It doesn't matter if he did do it. All he has to do is repent, cry some crocodile tears a la Jimmy Swaggart and all is forgiven. JESUS SAVES!
posted by HyperBlue at 11:12 AM on November 2, 2006

Gay hooker says he has voicemails, letter, from evangelical leader; will take on-air lie detector test tomorrow.

Dobson issues press release, repeating gay-hooker allegations against evangelical leader, in order to protest media publicizing gay hooker allegations.
posted by ericb at 11:12 AM on November 2, 2006

Read the link crash, then comment. OK?

I read it and it still seems hypothetical. One dude claims he had sex with a preacher of a megachurch. There's no tapes, no photos, no proof. It's just hearsay at this point, total gossip with nothing to back it up.
posted by mathowie at 11:13 AM on November 2, 2006

Harper's: Inside America's most powerful megachurch.

"Christian evangelical leader Ted Haggard...[is] one of the nation's most influential evangelical Christians, whose overstuffed agenda includes a weekly conference call to the White House." [source]

"'We have direct access [to President Bush],' says Mr. Haggard, senior pastor of the giant New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. 'I can call [Mr. Goeglein], he'll take my concern to the president and get back to me in 24 hours.'" [source]
posted by ericb at 11:16 AM on November 2, 2006

There's no tapes, no photos, no proof. It's just hearsay at this point, total gossip with nothing to back it up.
posted by mathowie at 11:13 AM PST

Well, if tapes exist per:
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/55996#1480877
Will posting to a release of that be a 'double' or just have cries of double-hood?

What does IOKIYAR mean?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:21 AM on November 2, 2006

Maybe it was just a donation in honor of The Feast of the Ejaculate Collection.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:22 AM on November 2, 2006

In an exclusive interview Wednesday night, Haggard denied the claims and told 9NEWS he is prepared for his own church to investigate them.

Yes, I'm glad he decided to go with a completely impartial panel to investigate these accusations.

Gay hooker says he has voicemails, letter, from evangelical leader; will take on-air lie detector test tomorrow.

Wouldn't it be more effective to make said voicemails and letter public now?
posted by clevershark at 11:22 AM on November 2, 2006

If he has voicemails and a letter from Haggard, why would he bother taking an on-air lie detector test?
posted by Armitage Shanks at 11:23 AM on November 2, 2006

You know, I'm no specialist in male/male aesthetics, but I can't help but think that if he was just looking for a guy to have sex with Haggard could have done a little better.
posted by clevershark at 11:25 AM on November 2, 2006

My show (Interfaith Voices) interviewed Ted Haggard a few months ago, gay relationships were not the topic - we were talking about Prosperity Gospel.

I think it's best to wait this out and see what else develops out of this.

I don't like many of the NAE's politics, but that they moved on global warming is a good sign, and I only hope that if the allegations are true, that conservatives give Richard Cizik a clear role in leadership.
posted by parmanparman at 11:25 AM on November 2, 2006

There was also an allegation of meth use.
Question to MeFites: how long is meth detectable in a user?
Cuz one of us must know that. Duh.
posted by mooncrow at 11:26 AM on November 2, 2006

I think it's best to wait this out and see what else develops out of this.

Agreed. Remember how the initial Foley thread contained early conjecture that there was really not much there...only to watch as the real story unfolded to reveal that there indeed was?
posted by ericb at 11:29 AM on November 2, 2006

Jimmy Swaggart was buying sex w/ a woman...irreconcilable difference as far as the bulk of the evangelical crowd is concerned. The Dobson press release smells a bit like Fallwell's hostile takeover of PTL after that scandal. I don't have any privileged information but as they are both based in Colorado Springs somebody will need to shepherd that flock. Good lookin' out James!
posted by well_balanced at 11:31 AM on November 2, 2006

What does IOKIYAR mean?

It's OK If Your'e A Republican
posted by SBMike at 11:32 AM on November 2, 2006

how long is meth detectable in a user?

It can be detected in hair and fingernails.
posted by ericb at 11:32 AM on November 2, 2006

Detection of methamphetamine and amphetamine in a single human hair by gas chromatography/chemical ionization mass spectrometry.
posted by ericb at 11:32 AM on November 2, 2006

Yep shark, I have to agree. I can't believe this jones guy was a prostitue, atleast not a profitable one.

Personally, being a fag from colorado, I don't believe this story. I see it being pretty emabrassing in the next week or so.
posted by cdavidc at 11:35 AM on November 2, 2006

And just yesterday this study was released: Hair Samples Show Babies Can Be Exposed To 'Crystal Meth' While In The Womb.
posted by ericb at 11:36 AM on November 2, 2006

It's just hearsay at this point -#1

And I phrased the post just that way, no?
posted by nofundy at 11:40 AM on November 2, 2006

In Haggard's defense, if the allegations are true, he didn't try to marry the male prostitute, just engage in butthole pleasures with him.
posted by Gamblor at 11:43 AM on November 2, 2006

On air lie detector tests? Shit, I gotta get busy baking bread and making sure I got enough face-paint.
posted by boo_radley at 11:44 AM on November 2, 2006

I have to admit that at first glance it seems bit odd. These days, if you really wanted something like tapes out you could just dump them on the net. I'm not sure I'd blow the whistle to the same gang that investigates faulty aluminum siding. Who owns that affiliate?
posted by well_balanced at 11:47 AM on November 2, 2006

another republicon hypocrite - i guess this guy is one of the wacko's the whitehouse joked about.
posted by specialk420 at 11:47 AM on November 2, 2006

I read it and it still seems hypothetical. One dude claims he had sex with a preacher of a megachurch. There's no tapes, no photos, no proof. It's just hearsay at this point, total gossip with nothing to back it up.

Then why not delete the post?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:50 AM on November 2, 2006

Agreed. Remember how the initial Foley thread contained early conjecture that there was really not much there...only to watch as the real story unfolded to reveal that there indeed was?
posted by ericb at 11:29 AM PST

Same thing happend with the inital rumblings of the happenings in Abu Graib and the Blue was the 1st place I saw the Niger documents are a forgery. I like it when the Blue leads the news....

I'm sure this preacher situation matters to someone...I'm not one of the someones so I didn't get It's OK If Your'e A Republican...thanks for letting me know.
posted by rough ashlar at 11:52 AM on November 2, 2006

I have to admit that at first glance it seems bit odd. These days, if you really wanted something like tapes out you could just dump them on the net.

He could be like another John Mark Karr, seeking a spotlight ... or, he could be delaying the release of corroborating evidence intentionally -- hoping the "drip-drip-drip" will point out hypocrisy regarding the strong Christian support for the marriage amendment on which folks in Colorado will vote on Ntuesday.
posted by ericb at 11:53 AM on November 2, 2006

"'After sitting back and contemplating this issue,' [said Mike Jones] 'the biggest reason [for exposing it] is being a gay man all my life, I have experience with my friends, some great sadness of people that were in a relationship through the years and were not able to enjoy the same rights and privileges as a married man and woman. '

'I felt it was my responsibility to my fellow brothers and sisters, that I had to take a stand, and I cannot sit back anymore and hear [what] to me is an anti-gay message.'"

[source]
posted by ericb at 11:59 AM on November 2, 2006

does anyone think the rocky mountain news would have gone to press with this without any coorberation?

especially in light of the john mark karr fiasco?
posted by specialk420 at 11:59 AM on November 2, 2006

He could be like another John Mark Karr, seeking a spotlight

Perhaps he has other 'evidence' on a different client and wants a pay-off via "See, I'll leak."

Oh, and *clap* *clap* on The Feast of the Ejaculate Collection.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:01 PM on November 2, 2006

"People may look at me and think what I've done is immoral, but I think I had to do the moral thing in my mind and that is expose someone who is preaching one thing and doing the opposite behind everybody's back," said Jones.

Interesting moral scale - his life involves paid sex and serious drugs but he was ok with all that until this hypocrisy thing happened... whoa, gotta speak out about that...
posted by scheptech at 12:03 PM on November 2, 2006

"Jones started talking to 9 Wants to Know two months ago." What, if anything, do you read into that? The affiliate certainly had enough time to decide whether or not they would cover his going public.
posted by well_balanced at 12:14 PM on November 2, 2006

Yeah, scheptech, I got a chuckle out of that too. But one could argue that those are victimless crimes, while this hypocrite is actively trying to mess people up.
posted by zoinks at 12:23 PM on November 2, 2006

Christians are given a free hand to condemn gay people on the basis of their reading a fictional magic book. Gay people they have never met, never will meet, and haven't even heard a whisper about. Yet when one of the christian damnation legion is possibly caught living a lie a standard of evidence is applied that requires corroboration and validation.

I say if you wander around in your religious dungeons and dragons magical world then you should just shut the hell up when somebody rolls a 20 on the damage to reputation spell. After all they have as much evidence for their claims about your behavior as you do about your god's condemnation of theirs.
posted by srboisvert at 12:28 PM on November 2, 2006 [5 favorites]

Related -- ad on Colorado's anti-gay marriage amendment on the ballot: YouTube video.
posted by ericb at 12:29 PM on November 2, 2006

As usual, crack cartoonist Tom Toles is ... on top of the matter.
posted by rob511 at 12:36 PM on November 2, 2006

Question to MeFites: how long is meth detectable in a user?

If we're experts on this sort of thing, does that make us Methites?
posted by thanotopsis at 12:44 PM on November 2, 2006

Running Against Sodom and Osama: The Christian Right, Values Voters and the Culture Wars in 2006
posted by homunculus at 12:45 PM on November 2, 2006

Christians are given a free hand to condemn gay people on the basis of their reading a fictional magic book. Gay people they have never met, never will meet, and haven't even heard a whisper about. Yet when one of the christian damnation legion is possibly caught living a lie a standard of evidence is applied that requires corroboration and validation.

I say if you wander around in your religious dungeons and dragons magical world then you should just shut the hell up when somebody rolls a 20 on the damage to reputation spell. After all they have as much evidence for their claims about your behavior as you do about your god's condemnation of theirs.

Srboisvert:

I completely agree with you. The bigger problem is that most of the time, gays and lesbians completely aquiesce to the discrimination from Christian leaders and others.

Gays and lesbians who are living in ghettos: Washington DC, San Francisco, Chicago, LA, and so on are oblivious to the consequences of just laughing at Falwell, Dobson, and now, Haggard.

If Americans are really going to start talking back to the Christian conservative movement it needs to be with one voice: not just a spokesperson in Washington or New York; but the voice that condemns those who are making discrimination possible and supporting those who live in fear for their lives in places where they are not accepted.
posted by parmanparman at 12:48 PM on November 2, 2006

What, if anything, do you read into that?

What I read into that is that the station started talking to this guy and spent a lot of time trying to determine whether he was credible - and that they finally decided to go with the story indicates they decided he was.
posted by kgasmart at 12:57 PM on November 2, 2006

From AmericaBlog: No, nothing gay there Harper's description of Ted Haggard's church, park, or whatever:

The atrium is a soaring foyer adorned with the flags of the nations and guarded by another bronze warrior angel, a scowling, bearded type with massive biceps and, again, a sword. The angel's pedestal stands at the center of a great, eight-pointed compass laid out in muted red, white, and blue-black stone. Each point directs the eye to a contemporary painting, most depicting gorgeous, muscular men—one is a blacksmith, another is bound, fetish-style, in chains—in various states of undress. My favorite is The Vessel, by Thomas Blackshear, a major figure in the evangelical-art world.[2] Here in the World Prayer Center is a print of The Vessel, a tall, vertical panel of two nude, ample-breasted, white female angels team-pouring an urn of honey onto the shaved head of a naked, olive-skinned man below. The honey drips down over his slab-like pecs and his six-pack abs into the eponymous vessel, which he holds in front of his crotch. But the vessel can't handle that much honey, so the sweetness oozes over the edges and spills down yet another level, presumably onto our heads, drenching us in golden, godly love. Part of what makes Blackshear's work so compelling is precisely its unabashed eroticism; it aims to turn you on, and then to turn that passion toward Jesus.

posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 12:59 PM on November 2, 2006

Wow. Thomas Blackshear.
posted by maryh at 1:15 PM on November 2, 2006

IANAL, but this is not hearsay. It would be hearsay if a third party were to claim that Jones said he had paid sex with Haggard.

This is an accusation. Of course, it could be false.
posted by owhydididoit at 1:24 PM on November 2, 2006

It seems pretty unbelievable, yet so did a certain soiled blue dress, and it is not like we haven't seen before the hypocrisy of those who preach against something by day and practice it by night. Church just becomes a business for guys like Haggard.
posted by caddis at 1:25 PM on November 2, 2006

And before the instant msgs between Foley and the pages were released (which didn't happen until a day or two after the story broke), the first page's accusation was also just that. I just hope that this rent-boy/man didn't leave it too late to impact the vote on the anti-gay-marriage amendment in Colorado.

Another point for all those in favor of protecting the reputations of odious people who peddle religion for profit and power: an average heterosexual person is not one who is typically threatened by gaydom. It is typically closet-cases or those who are simultaneously turned on by the 'despicable' act and disgusted by it, and obsessively wage a crusade against gay people and the lifestyle. The rest could care less. Thus, while I do wait for confirmation, I would not be surprised if this Haggard Homo has indeed engaged in homosexual sodomy and ingested meth to render himself more haggard.
posted by Azaadistani at 1:40 PM on November 2, 2006

Colorado Papers Cautious on Sex Charges Against Preacher -- So Far.
posted by ericb at 1:49 PM on November 2, 2006

In news related to gay marriage -- this just in --

280 religious leaders in Virginia are against the constitutional amendment to strip gay (and unmarried straight) couples of most of their legal rights.

Also --

Gay couples have actually helped strengthen the institution of marriage in Scandanavia.

"Seventeen years after recognizing same-sex relationships in Scandinavia there are higher marriage rates for heterosexuals, lower divorce rates, lower rates for out-of-wedlock births, lower STD rates, more stable and durable gay relationships, more monogamy among gay couples, and so far no slippery slope to polygamy, incestuous marriages, or 'man-on-dog' unions."

[Wall Street Journal -- subscription required | October 27, 2006]

posted by ericb at 1:58 PM on November 2, 2006