The really interesting bits about this- the crimes of the Church of Scientology aside- are all about what Anonymous implies about the future of activism. posted by Pope Guilty at 10:01 AM on February 11 [4 favorites]
It's nice that they stopped blowing up vans. posted by Dr-Baa at 10:03 AM on February 11 [4 favorites]
Scientology is no different from any other religion which uses electric resistance meters to gauge emotional health, charges thousand of dollars to access to advanced levels of knowledge concerning the ancient ghosts of aliens infecting human bodies, and engages in threats, harrassment, libel, and frivolous litigation to silence public critics. posted by brownpau at 10:05 AM on February 11 [89 favorites]
The first rule of Anonymous is you don't talk about Anony...
wait...
hold on... ok.
The first rule of Anonymous is you DO talk about anonymous. posted by tkchrist at 10:06 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
This wasn't activism so much as internet types taking their in-jokes and memes out into the real world for a couple of hours. Sort of like a Metafilter meetup. posted by rocket88 at 10:14 AM on February 11
Scientology is no different from any other religion which uses electric resistance meters to gauge emotional health, charges thousand of dollars to access to advanced levels of knowledge concerning the ancient ghosts of aliens infecting human bodies, and engages in threats, harrassment, libel, and frivolous litigation to silence public critics.
As opposed to real religions. That used war, torture and murder to achieve those things. posted by tkchrist at 10:16 AM on February 11 [6 favorites]
I'm not a big fan of the illegality of Anonymous's actions, but the fact that they were live-action Rickrolling people makes me giggle. posted by dismas at 10:19 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
This wasn't activism so much as internet types taking their in-jokes and memes out into the real world for a couple of hours.
This this this.
Can we please stop posting about the antics of /b/tards vs Scientology? It's like watching retards fuck. posted by Mikey-San at 10:21 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
This wasn't activism so much as internet types taking their in-jokes and memes out into the real world for a couple of hours. Sort of like a Metafilter meetup.
Of course, you're only paying the barest of attention to it, but hey, go tell the people organising protests and designing fliers and getting people on radio shows over at Enturbulation.Org that they're just "internet types" making in-jokes, you fucking jackass.
As opposed to real religions. That used war, torture and murder to achieve those things.
As we've been saying for some time now, our beef is with the Church of Scientology, not Scientology as a belief system/religion/whatever. If any other church behaved as the CoS behaves, we'd be after them, too. The crimes of, say, Christianity are largely in the past, but those churches which still behave poorly ought to be run to the ground- those outlaw fundamentalist polygamist sects hiding in the wilds of Utah, for example.
And anyway, this argument is hideously flawed, as its essential point is that being a religion/church gives you permission to kill, lie, steal, extort, or whatever. I'm pretty sure nobody here wants to argue that. posted by Pope Guilty at 10:23 AM on February 11 [10 favorites]
You could read the traditional media but they are made of fail and lies, by and large.
The two hubs of information, to the best of my knowledge, are the Project Chanology wiki and the Enturbulation forums.
I'm not a big fan of the illegality of Anonymous's actions
The only blatantly illegal thing they did is the DDOS, and I don't even know how illegal that is since they weren't using botnets. Other than that they have slightly illegal things like copyright violations and prank phone call type stuff. posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 10:24 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
Can anybody think of another global same day protest action with people wearing masks? I watched for ~20 hours just for the lulz... Just saying, people in major cities came out on the same day to protest something (or maybe just for the lulz), but still, it happened. posted by zengargoyle at 10:30 AM on February 11
Hmm, lolcat versus Xenu? It's like the internet spasmed and kicked it's two top memes into the ring to duke it out.
I'll be shocked if anything useful comes of this, but I'll also be more than thrilled to watch CoS play wack-a-mole with regard to fighting a distributed attack against their structure. (Particularly in light of of the asymmetric style of Anon, going after phone lines and food delivery and the like.) posted by quin at 10:32 AM on February 11 [4 favorites]
...why not look at one of the over 4,600 Flickr pictures tagged with "Scientology" and "Anonymous" taken between the 8th and the 11th? Or look at one of the YouTube videos of events all over the world, linked by Jess Lee or sift through the two-thousand-plus YouTube videos from the last week.
Because it would bore me to tears and I would learn absolutely nothing, that's why not. posted by prostyle at 10:34 AM on February 11 [3 favorites]
This is a teenager. Maybe two. Male. You can tell by the way that "Declaration..." video is written. The phrasing, wording.
Because it would bore me to tears and I would learn absolutely nothing, that's why not.
Congratulations, you have reached the archetype of a bad comment. posted by Pope Guilty at 10:35 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
but hey, go tell the people organising protests and designing fliers and getting people on radio shows over at Enturbulation.Org that they're just "internet types" making in-jokes
Yeah, that guy who played the Rick Astley song really struck a death blow to Scientology, you fucking jackass. posted by rocket88 at 10:37 AM on February 11 [5 favorites]
This is a teenager. Maybe two. Male. You can tell by the way that "Declaration..." video is written. The phrasing, wording.
A wonderful hoax. Kudos, kid(s).
Once again, having no idea what's actually going on with Project Chanology leads to idiotic statements about it. Do you people have some kind of stored-up desire to bash on 4chan that you finally have an outlet for? posted by Pope Guilty at 10:37 AM on February 11 [4 favorites]
Yeah, that guy who played the Rick Astley song really struck a death blow to Scientology, you fucking jackass.
Yeah, and he's just as representative of anti-war sentiment as the idiot taking a "Free Mumia" sign to anti-war protest.
Jesus Christ, it's like you're trying to make your arguments maximally stupid. posted by Pope Guilty at 10:38 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
This is a teenager. Maybe two. Male.
Actually, it has been proven that all /b/tards are really just one guy named David. posted by Dr-Baa at 10:40 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
Can we please stop posting about the antics of /b/tards vs Scientology? It's like watching retards fuck.
Heh. I just love that Scientology is finally being dealt with on its own terms. It's so much more appropriate than going after them with lawyers and media exposés. posted by mr_roboto at 10:42 AM on February 11 [7 favorites]
From the 3rd link: do Scientologists really run "child labor" "gulags" and force women to have abortions? It seams like the BBC would have picked up on this by now. posted by Brocktoon at 10:44 AM on February 11
You could look to traditional media for coverage, but this is an internet internet phenomenon - why not look at one of the over 4,600 Flickr pictures tagged with "Scientology" and "Anonymous" taken between the 8th and the 11th? Or look at one of the YouTube videos of events all over the world, linked by Jess Lee or sift through the two-thousand-plus YouTube videos from the last week.
I hate traditional media as much as the next person, but one thing they are good at is constructing a narrative. Usually the narrative is moronic and exploitative, but there's a narrative. The internet allows you to construct your own narrative that highlights the parts of events that are most important to you or to organize facts into a cohesive whole that makes a persuasive case for some objective that's important to you.
But you have to construct a narrative. You have to tell me why I should care about whatever you are talking about. You have to tell me why I should weigh the sign that reads "Co$ KILLS" differently than the sign that reads "LONGCAT IS LOOOOOONG" within the same crowd.
Don't just point me to flickr photo pools and crappy cellphone videos of idiots in masks shouting on top of one another. What is happening? Why is it happening? Who is behind it? What is their motivation? What is the objective? How does what happened advance the objective? Was it a success? Etc.
Otherwise, this is just a message board meetup, and nothing more. posted by Pastabagel at 10:44 AM on February 11 [5 favorites]
It's cute/tragically short-sighted the way some people insist on characterizing anything that comes out of this hooplah as eminently dismissable tard-versus-tard action.
Let me say this: if you happen to know someone who's been caught up in the Org's dangerous malarkey, you're going to be pretty damn pleased at some attention coming to the issue regardless of how was seeded.
If your family were torn apart or you had to give up on some of your friends because of their hopeless devotion to that destructive farce masquerading as a church, you might not be so picky. You might say, "Anything that turns up the heat on those avaricious devils is positive."
I can understand that some people are tired of hearing about it. Hell, I'm tired of hearing about the contest for the next King of America -- nevertheless, it's news and it's consequential news so I can appreciate why folks are talking about it.
I don't care what Anonymous' true (or original) motives are. Frankly, if you're someone who feels that less-than-solid motivations cheapen actions, you're probably a good candidate for being anti-Scientology. Think about it.
I know I've got my own reasons to cheer Anonymous on.
If some folks had a little more compassion, they might think twice before bleating their candy-assed whines about how nobody gives a shit about all this, and how they'd rather read about rumours of pink iPhones or glow-in-the-dark Lego depictings of Hawking radiation. posted by CheeseburgerBrown at 10:45 AM on February 11 [28 favorites]
Too make my comment more clear, the Jess Lee blog does this well but the thousands and thousands of photos and videos don't. posted by Pastabagel at 10:46 AM on February 11
From the 3rd link: do Scientologists really run "child labor" "gulags" and force women to have abortions? It seams like the BBC would have picked up on this by now.
Between Operation Freakout and Time Magazine spending years fighting off a $400,000,000 lawsuit for reporting on Scientology's crimes back in 1991, news organisations as a whole have been reluctant to run negative stories on the Church of Scientology. posted by Pope Guilty at 10:48 AM on February 11 [3 favorites]
Burhanistan's link in MeTa last night to this page about the London protest is good. Haters can snark all they want, but this is an impressive goofball protest. Seriously. Anonymous got hundreds of people in dozens of cities around the world to do this on the same day, and a lot of them had a blast while drawing attention to specific injustices committed by a horrible worldwide organization.
Why on earth anyone would rush to sneer at that is beyond me. posted by mediareport at 10:49 AM on February 11 [3 favorites]
this would work better with toilet paper and shaving cream posted by pyramid termite at 10:50 AM on February 11
Having Been Personally Hassled (Not to any point as to be Violent or full on illegal harassment) I can only look at this and Chuckle, The Ice truck Surveillance Van really capped it off for me. I like the Idea of getting all the license plates of all the surveillance vehicles on list so we can verify it is the Co$ following you and not paranoia.
I personally have never witnesses any other religious group go after someone with such zeal and vengence and even anger when called on their message. Not Catholics, Islam or even Satanists, perhaps I have a limited view, but I can say those i have met from the Co$ have been extremely aggressive to me. posted by Elim at 10:52 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
Can we please stop posting about the antics of /b/tards vs Scientology? It's like watching retards fuck.
Hell yeah! I hate free speech too. posted by MillMan at 10:54 AM on February 11
There ARE a lot of extremely interesting aspects to Anon's chanology project and what it portends for the future of distributed activism. Yes, it's for the lulz, but if you can't see anything interesting in Anon's methods and means, I submit that you are an arrogant fuckstick that is too bored with the world to be allowed to comment.
in before, "Metafilter - arrogant fucksticks that are too bored with the world to be allowed to comment." posted by Cathedral at 10:54 AM on February 11 [5 favorites]
I'm jealous... I wish I would have thought up a pyramid scheme where I could make up some lame ass story and have people pay me millions a year. Maybe I could... Call it the church of scientificism... there that'll have to do. Anyone who wants to know the history of my church has to pay me 5$.... now all I need to do is sit back and let the cash roll in. Gotta love snake oil and idiots! posted by Mastercheddaar at 10:55 AM on February 11
mediareport: "...Why on earth anyone would rush to sneer at that is beyond me."
Scientology versus the Mysterons! Two fictions created by sci-fi writers in the middle of the 20th century slug it out.
If the Church of Scientology ceased its little extortion racket, I wonder if Scientologist belief would survive independently, a true-to-life faith? I understand that there are some Scientology schismatics who practise for free, so perhaps so. But the Church itself really must be stopped. posted by WPW at 10:56 AM on February 11
If stupid group antics gets people to pay attention, then by all means keep it up, I say. I'd much rather see this than a bunch of unwashed dreadlocked pseudo-hippies having a sit in. posted by caution live frogs at 10:56 AM on February 11 [5 favorites]
Elim: "I personally have never witnesses any other religious group go after someone with such zeal and vengence and even anger when called on their message. Not Catholics, Islam or even Satanists, perhaps I have a limited view, but I can say those i have met from the Co$ have been extremely aggressive to me."
Ah yes... no other religious group has killed people over being "offended"...
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally against CoS, and support anon, fully. But I wouldn't say the CoS is the only organized religion that has such a mindset. You could argue it's the only full-body of an organized religion that takes such stances, and the other incidents are individuals or sects, and I suppose that would be valid.
But it's absurd to say that only CoS has wingnuts like that. posted by symbioid at 11:01 AM on February 11
If the Church of Scientology ceased its little extortion racket, I wonder if Scientologist belief would survive independently, a true-to-life faith? I understand that there are some Scientology schismatics who practise for free, so perhaps so. But the Church itself really must be stopped.
I don't think the Freezone would last very long without a slow stream of disenchanted CoS members to fill it. Are there really people coming to Scientology other than through the Church? posted by Pope Guilty at 11:02 AM on February 11
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally against CoS, and support anon, fully. But I wouldn't say the CoS is the only organized religion that has such a mindset. You could argue it's the only full-body of an organized religion that takes such stances, and the other incidents are individuals or sects, and I suppose that would be valid.
But it's absurd to say that only CoS has wingnuts like that.
You've kind of stated it there. posted by Pope Guilty at 11:04 AM on February 11
The thing that bugs me about all of this is the protofascist "might makes right" attitude of Anonymous - not these protests, which I think are actually a very positive way of getting an anti-COS message out, but all the other juvenile "zomg internet raid" stuff on the Chanology site seem incredibly counter-productive to me. I'm with the xenu.net guy on that one. posted by whir at 11:07 AM on February 11
This is a ridiculously entertaining LJ entry from one such Anonymouse who participated in the UK protestes, complete with pictures and mockery.
Excellent post btw, I'd been hoping to get a bit more information about this as I found out about the event after the fact. posted by Phire at 11:20 AM on February 11 [4 favorites]
symbioid , I agree I can only state that I have personally never been annoyed to the point of harassment by ANY other group in my life other than the few Co$ folks that have done that.
Trust Me I agree that religions have been and are being used to commit violence, and that is not my argument. I can only confirm the tactics they used with me would probably not have passed Legal muster in Europe and certainly would have gotten me arrested if not assaulted.
Whether, another religious group either historically or in another place in the world does the same or worse is irrelevant to my experience. posted by Elim at 11:30 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
Every time Pope Guilty makes a link I have to check for rickrolls. posted by tylermoody at 11:31 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
"Retards"? "Tards"? How old are you, twelve? Knock it off.
i think the really interesting bit in all this is the decentralized nature of the organization. there's no single entity organizing the "movement". there's no head to cut off. but it will take quite a bit more in both numbers of bodies out there and effectiveness in getting out the message to make a dent in the cause. posted by ruthsarian at 11:32 AM on February 11
Every time Pope Guilty makes a link I have to check for rickrolls.
Why? I'm not a part of the greater /b/ collective. posted by Pope Guilty at 11:33 AM on February 11
Too make my comment more clear, the Jess Lee blog does this well but the thousands and thousands of photos and videos don't.
I agree, but I think this is an interesting coda to this phenomena. Some random person puts together an online screed and it captures people's interest. As an eventual result, at least hundreds if not a few thousand people world-wide make a public spectacle. Within 48 hours of its conclusion there's thousands of easily findable pictures and videos of the event.
*shrug* Perhaps I am making more of it than it justifies, but I found it intriguing the way this came together and how much it generated.
That aside, I'm not sure who you're addressing here, Pastabagel. Me? I generally think the CoS is whacky and engages in loathsome behavior, but I don't have a dog in this specific fight. I just wanted to comment on the prodigious citizen media coming out of this.
Are you directing it at the people assembling? The video I watched of the people who went to the CoS location in my area showed a number of folks holding up signs with XENU.NET on it, which contains information on the CoS and its past behavior, though it could certainly stand to be more accessible.
I think writing it off as just internet meetup shenanigans is a little over-simplified. The fact that there were people being doofuses is just inevitable. Any kind of protest attracts a certain kind of folk. The Free Mumia folk that Pope Guilty mentions, NAMBLA at gay pride parades. These people aren't representative of the crowd as a whole, and tarring everyone with that brush when you have an open-to-the-public gathering is unfair and unrealistic.
I think the Anonymous brigade could have been more useful if they'd made a point at creating at providing information about the CoS to non-involved passerby, but that's not their (foolish) stated goal. posted by phearlez at 11:33 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
Oh, a science-ology thread! I haven't previewed, but did I miss the part of the discussion when some "enlightened" soul with absolutely no agenda declares how Scientology is no different and no more harmful than any other religion despite mountains of evidence to the contrary?
Someone please do so and get it over with so the literate mefites can discuss the articles in question further. posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:34 AM on February 11
Oh, a science-ology thread! I haven't previewed, but did I miss the part of the discussion when some "enlightened" soul with absolutely no agenda declares how Scientology is no different and no more harmful than any other religion despite mountains of evidence to the contrary?
Someone please do so and get it over with so the literate mefites can discuss the articles in question further.
I take it from DoctorFedora's response that "tard" is some anti-Scientology lingo. If you're trying to spread a message, you might want to consider not using offensive slang in it... unless you're only interested in talking with people who already know all the cool words. posted by The corpse in the library at 11:43 AM on February 11
I'm pretty sure that the estimable Dr. Fedora is pointing out what a stupid comment the complaint about "tards" was. posted by Pope Guilty at 11:45 AM on February 11
I take it from DoctorFedora's response that "tard" is some anti-Scientology lingo.
FAIL!
Sorry. It's what the Anonymous people self-identify as. They're reclaiming it, or something. posted by mr_roboto at 11:45 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
1: I wish I still lived in DC to see that Scientology church get rickrolled live. I used to walk by that all the time. Lived right up the street a few blocks.
2: Can I point out how great it is to see a protest where none of the protesters are being sanctimonious pricks, and no one apparently has any sense that The Movement must be Purged for the Greater Good? For God's sake, they're having fun out there! Right on. And I also think that silliness and mockery are exactly what the COS should be fought with. It's a completely laughable and absurd cult, and the only thing that protects them is that they've managed to make people act seriously about it. Longcat might be our only hope here. posted by rusty at 11:47 AM on February 11 [11 favorites]
Oh, is that what the question is?
"/b/tard" is the in-jokey word for members of the greater /b/ group, spread out across the *Chans, similar to how Something Awful forumites call themselves "goons". posted by Pope Guilty at 11:48 AM on February 11
Yeah, but LONGCAT IS LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG posted by influx at 11:50 AM on February 11
Actually, my intention was to translate the original complaint into a form that the idiot in question would actually respond to.
Hasn't anyone here seen Airplane!? posted by DoctorFedora at 11:52 AM on February 11
Scientology is but one, perhaps the biggest, of groups called "cults." While many non-believers consider--witness some comments here--Mainline religion cults, is it possible to clearly distinguish between a religion and a cult? Example: one person told me that for a religion to be "real" it had to be some two thousand years old...ok, then what of Mormonism and Protestantism?
Can you distinguish or is simpler to dismiss all religions because you can not?
What do religions and cults have in common? neither pays taxes. posted by Postroad at 11:53 AM on February 11
It looks like the MeFi SPs with the BTs are now a Type 3 PTS. This OT is I/C, and we're gonna KSW by dropping some AVC and having the OSA D/A these DBs all the way into the RPF. THen I'm driving my BMW back to the CC and drinking a PBR PDQ, ya heard? Teegeeack represent! posted by Tom Cruise at 11:59 AM on February 11 [5 favorites]
The really interesting bits about this- the crimes of the Church of Scientology aside- are all about what Anonymous implies about the future of activism.
What would that be? That in the future, all activists will ignore the long-standing, pre-existing movements that have already learned their lessons and paid the price and make the same mistake by doing the same kind of stupid shit all over again?
Still, I'm pretty sure Grady Ward didn't think he'd be stuffed by a $2m settlement, or that Keith Henson didn't think he'd be spending that much time in jail the last time Scientology fever gripped the internet either.
I just thought it was funny that their video mentioned that some of them were "veterinary technicians" posted by delmoi at 12:35 PM on February 11
Are people complaining that they aren't "protesting right"? What the fuck is that?
posted by Divine_Wino at 3:07 PM on February 11
That isn't what I'm complaining about. My complaint is that for any kind of reactionary movement to have an effect, someone needs to contextualize it, i.e. someone needs to write and direct the story of it. What is the menaing of the event having taken place? etc, like a I wrote above.
The problem is that if anonymous or the associated groups don't place these protests into some context ("They are different than previous protests because of X"), the Church of Scientology will be happy to do it for them. That why the Church's official response brands them as "terrorists" and highlights the DDOS activities. Furthermore, unless Anonymous or another group describes what happened and what is or is not sanctioned activity, some jackass acting in Anonymous's name is going to do something stupid or illegal (getting into a fist fight, trespassing, etc) that CoS will pin on the group as a whole. posted by Pastabagel at 12:45 PM on February 11
Did you mean "cum"? posted by Curry at 12:51 PM on February 11
I understand Pastabagel, but I think that Anonymous is just bored and dicking around at the heart of it, if Scientology gets a thumb in the eye, well... Can't say they don't have it coming. posted by Divine_Wino at 12:58 PM on February 11
Believe me, sourwookie, I've tried. The closest I've found is some grandmas in what appear to be a nursing home.
That just ain't right. posted by symbioid at 12:59 PM on February 11
This is fucking awesome. It's great to see Anonymous (and his Anonymous masses) engaging in something a little more useful than spamming Second Lif-ers. Sure, many of them might still be doing it for the lulz - and that's interesting/cool in its own right - but it's refreshing to see their target move to something equally as absurd, but a great deal more dangerous. posted by lunit at 1:02 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
From the 3rd link: do Scientologists really run "child labor" "gulags" and force women to have abortions?
The problem is that if anonymous or the associated groups don't place these protests into some context ("They are different than previous protests because of X"), the Church of Scientology will be happy to do it for them. That why the Church's official response brands them as "terrorists" and highlights the DDOS activities. Furthermore, unless Anonymous or another group describes what happened and what is or is not sanctioned activity, some jackass acting in Anonymous's name is going to do something stupid or illegal (getting into a fist fight, trespassing, etc) that CoS will pin on the group as a whole.
I'm not sure it matters in this case. Scientology just might be the ultimate example to support the concept that free speech is the best disinfectant for bad ideas. Their beliefs are so stupid that you don't have to contextualize anything. The biggest danger you have - and the only way I can see the Anonymous group's irreverence harming them - is that they're just SO nutso that people will think you're making them up.
But most people aren't aware of the volcanos and the aliens and the inter-stellar 737s, so when a group like this goes out there and shines the light on Scientology it's much more inoculated against member misbehavior than most other movements. They don't have to look good to make Scientology look bad. posted by phearlez at 1:15 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure they're interstellar DC-10s. posted by mr_roboto at 1:16 PM on February 11
Yeah, Peter, because all of the "long-standing, pre-existing movements" have done such a bang-up job dealing with the CoS. Give me a break. You sound like Hillary Clinton arguing that Obama is the "Establishment" candidate.
Anonymous has more in common with a flash mob than a movement. posted by Cathedral at 1:26 PM on February 11
I'm pretty sure they're interstellar DC-10s.
See, I thought it was Douglas DC-8s. Clearly their misinformation campaign is working.
If we can't accurately identify such an important piece of information, how can we possibly hope to refute their beliefs.
Related: Either way, that Xenu dude is a cheap bastard. I mean, if I have to spend time on an interstellar flight, the least he could do is hook me up with a Concord, or a 777. But a DC-8/ DC-10? No thanks.
I guess I'll just stick with worshiping Satan. posted by quin at 1:34 PM on February 11
I have to admit I've been following this with some amount of interest. I guess it's just the guilty little thought, prompted by wishful thinking if by nothing else, that perhaps this is simply trial run and the most interesting antics are yet to come. posted by CheshireCat at 1:39 PM on February 11
Not a comment on the rightness/need for the protests, I think we're dealing with some weird folks in the Co$, and only weird responses may work... posted by pupdog at 1:41 PM on February 11
That why the Church's official response brands them as "terrorists" and highlights the DDOS activities.
Which, in 99% of people's minds, just casts further ridicule on the COS. A bunch of people in funny masks carrying funny signs, are "terrorists"? That either completely dilutes the term "terrorist", or confirms that the COS are nutcases / running scared / don't know how to react. As for the DDOS activities, there's plenty of evidence that the COS retaliated with cybervandalism of their own.
some jackass acting in Anonymous's name is going to do something stupid or illegal (getting into a fist fight, trespassing, etc) that CoS will pin on the group as a whole.
Except "Anonymous" isn't a group, and I don't see how anyone can act in its name. Anyone, anywhere can call themselves Anonymous. The online presence of Anonymous is spread over a few dozen chans, countless blogs, forums, IRC. I don't see how anything could ever be pinned on the group as a whole, except in the media. And when Fox News innocently tried to do just that a few months ago, great mirth was had by all.
It's just pretty amazing and surprising to see these people get off their arses, take a break from making pedobear macros, and do something. I'd bet most of the protestors knew next to nothing about COS a few months back, and now it appears a significant majority of them have bothered to learn something and grow an interest in a decent cause. posted by Jimbob at 1:44 PM on February 11 [4 favorites]
I don't have a horse in this race either way, but I was disturbed to see Australia's internet news provider (news.com.au) provide this: copy of photo on news.com.au.
The unbearable thing they had to blur out to protect the public? The word "cult". posted by b33j at 1:53 PM on February 11
Not to say that news.com.au is Australia's only internet news provider, just the most obvious one. posted by b33j at 1:54 PM on February 11
Pope GuiltyIf any other church behaved as the CoS behaves, we'd be after them, too.
Ha! Now that's an unimpressive and foolish promise if ever I saw one. I don't believe you. I'm calling you boastful, PG.
The Saudi Arabian religion, Wahhabism, or Salafism, is a belief system so much morally worse than Scientology that the comparison is absurd. This is the subset of Islam that declares women to be slaves, advocates death and maiming for a long list of activities most of which anywhere sensible consider basic human rights (for example, exercising freedom of religion), and maintains the huge Saudi "royal" extended family in astonishing luxury amid the poverty of ordinary Middle Eastern Arab existence.
Speaking as someone who attended the London events, I would say that a significant number of the people who attended were perfectly aware of the significance of the events wrt CoS as opposed to a meetup. Yes, there were internet memes paraded, and immature chants. But that's a good thing. The fact is that I and many others could stand there for 8 hours was partly down to the fact that it was a fun place to be.
We DID hand out flyers to passerbys, and I personally talked to 4 media outlets. We also made passing Londoners look, smile, and take the leaflets in a city where looking past people giving merchandise is an ingrained reflex. A message leavened with humour is a good thing, it breaks the pofaced nature of many protests and was an excellent contrast to the Scientologist people on the day.
Don't think of the false dichotomy between the energy of channers and the seriousness of traditional protesters, think of it as a synergy. posted by jaduncan at 2:07 PM on February 11 [5 favorites]
The unbearable thing they had to blur out to protect the public? The word "cult".
Oh! You mean it was an "L"? :) posted by aeschenkarnos at 2:08 PM on February 11
At this rate, I give it about 5 years before they get organized enough to buy an attack submarine to go hunt down Freewinds in international waters.
Huh. B/tards. People getting called 'fucking jackass' for expressing a different opinion.
I've always thought that Scientology was the sackful of assholes. Maybe I was wrong. Thank you, Anonymous, for helping me to re-examine by beliefs. posted by ten pounds of inedita at 2:23 PM on February 11
At this rate, I give it about 5 years before they get organized enough to buy an attack submarine to go hunt down Freewinds in international waters.
Sounds like an interesting premise for a straight to DVD movie.
Hell, I'd watch it. posted by quin at 2:25 PM on February 11
I thought it was good.
I'm very impressed with Anonymous. It almost makes me want to don the mask myself. posted by seanyboy at 2:45 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
Kids today are fucking awesome.
They put my generation to shame, all we wanted to do was get high and dance. posted by fullerine at 2:46 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
I have to admit that the stories magnusbe linked are very inspirational and warmed the cockles of my black little heart towards Anonymous just a little bit. posted by whir at 2:48 PM on February 11 [2 favorites]
Beej, I could swear that when that photo first appeared on news.com.au, CULTwasn't pixellated out...I'm pretty sure there was no pixellated bits on the picture at all to begin with. posted by Jimbob at 2:55 PM on February 11
tkchrist, 8 comments in.
Oh. Shut the fuck up. I responded to another poster who was claiming that other religions have'nt used intimidation or violence to silence critics. Which is patently not true. Even in recent history.
I suppose you can let the bullshit lay to serve your whipping up the hate agenda but what good does it do?
You can fetishize your hysterical Scientology Hate all you want but anybody with a god damned brain in their head places SoC pretty low on the give-a-fuck-a-meter. Especially when compared to any number of other larger more egregious social wrongs being committed in the name of religion and/or profit.
Picking on SoC is low hanging fruit. They're loony. Kooky. And do some scandalous things. It easy. Nobody likes them.
It's South Park Outrage and so inert it's a laughable use of laziest of efforts. But seriously. What the fuck ever. Go for it. OMFG! SCIENTOLOGY!!! posted by tkchrist at 3:02 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
But what do you really think about it? posted by whir at 3:05 PM on February 11
Ha! Now that's an unimpressive and foolish promise if ever I saw one. I don't believe you. I'm calling you boastful, PG.
The Saudi Arabian religion, Wahhabism, or Salafism, is a belief system so much morally worse than Scientology that the comparison is absurd. This is the subset of Islam that declares women to be slaves, advocates death and maiming for a long list of activities most of which anywhere sensible consider basic human rights (for example, exercising freedom of religion), and maintains the huge Saudi "royal" extended family in astonishing luxury amid the poverty of ordinary Middle Eastern Arab existence.
Care to take them on?
As opposed to you, who are doing nothing more useful than masturbating. posted by Pope Guilty at 3:24 PM on February 11 [2 favorites]
But what do you really think about it?
Eh. It's okay I guess. posted by tkchrist at 3:24 PM on February 11
Care to take them on?
Choose your battles wisely. posted by Jimbob at 3:25 PM on February 11
Masturbating is extremely useful! Why, we could power our lord Xenu's re-entry vehicle with the energy if only w... I have said too much already. posted by tkchrist at 3:27 PM on February 11
I don't have a horse in this race either way, but I was disturbed to see Australia's internet news provider (news.com.au) provide this...
I mean, it's impressive how there's this organisation which is at this very moment actively engaged in tearing down freedom of speech, brainwashing people, ripping off hundreds of thosuands of dollars from its adherents, and most of the people in this thread are desperately trying to justify their failure to do a fucking thing about it by acting like their inaction makes them better than those who are trying to rectify the situation.
Well, fuck them, and fuck you for thinking that you're far too hip to care, way cooler than those lame people who give a fuck about things and actually try to make the world a better place. The world is horrible, yes, but none of your pathetic squealings will wash away the blood that your indifference and inaction puts on your hands. posted by Pope Guilty at 3:31 PM on February 11 [12 favorites]
In a less snarky vein, tkchrist, I agree that it's low-hanging fruit and that in the grand scheme of the evil that men do, the excesses of the CoS are probably not all that big. Nonetheless, there have been a bunch of people who have been demonstrably hurt by the church, and I don't really see what harm it does to raise awareness about that in the population at large.
Also, can we tone down the rhetoric a tad? If I get too much more blood on my hands, I'm going to need to wash my shirt. posted by whir at 3:36 PM on February 11
our beef is with the Church of Scientology, not Scientology as a belief system/religion/whatever.
I understand the appeal of making this distinction because it protects you from the charge of attacking another person's sincerely held beliefs, but I actually totally disagree with it. I understand the faction which holds that there was a "pure" Scientology devised by Hubbard which has been corrupted in the years since his death, and that's undoubtedly true...but there is absolutely no getting around the fact that Hubbard was a sick, sick, sadistic motherfucker in the first place. The practices are inseparable from his writings, and the writings are totally saturated with his need to control and break down other people. I'd certainly be satisfied if the official Co$ could be dismantled or starved out of existence somehow and the practices left in the hands of the freezoners, but I really think the evils of the organization are outgrowths of the evils of the practices themselves, to the extent that they are inextricable from each other. posted by anazgnos at 3:42 PM on February 11
Pastabagel: someone needs to write and direct the story of it.
I think it's part of this new Anonymous/"Oh Fuck! The internet is here!" ethos that each individual directs the story. The information is available. (Here's the summarizing "anti-manifesto" if you insist on being so TL;DR.) But in this trend, the narrative is now yours to construct, not Rupert Murdoch's, not George W. Bush's, and not Hillary Clinton's.
To quote Anonymous, albeit a bit melodramatically:
"It has no leaders. It has no authorities. This movement is self directed by each member's own moral compass, and every individual walks in the same direction because that compass points to what is right."
And it's not just Anonymous: It's Wikipedia, it's here, it's all over the Internet. Read a Scientology article on Wikipedia and the facts shine through even through NPOV. Read the comments here, no one's afraid to call Scientology a dangerous cult. Meanwhile, read a traditional media report and the most you generally hear is that Scientology is a "controversial religion" when if they had the research skills or balls to do the bare minimum of typing "Scientology" into Google they'd find tons of hard evidence for a bit more than controversy.
This is a teenager. Maybe two. Male.
I have it on good authority that there are OVER 9000 Anonymous, and that even though there are no girls on the internet, it's not all that hard to find female Anonymous.
(Anyone added up all the individual protests yet? I'm sort of hoping they actually did get over 9000. I saw one of the traditional media news articles a few days ago and they actually stated that 9000 were expected to attend, and I had to wonder if some Anon they talked to pulled a joke or if they just pulled that off a chan somewhere without LURKING MOAR.) posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 3:50 PM on February 11 [2 favorites]
As opposed to you, who are doing nothing more useful than masturbating.
Indeed so. However, at least I have enough dignity to refrain from putting it up on YouTube and calling myself a hero for doing it.
Look, I don't object to you protesting Scientology. I will admit to having heard about it, sneered, and said that I expected five nerds to turn up each of whom is there to "watch" the protest. I was wrong about that, and happy to be wrong. Jolly good. Go "Anonymous". And I strongly agree with your point about what this implies for the future of activism.
However, as tkchrist points out, Scientology is Low. Hanging. Fruit. Strawberries.
It was you who said, boastfully (I still think you're boastful. Windbag. Pufferfish. All hat and one scrawny cow. Blowhard. Big-talker. Nyah-nyah to you.) that any other church that behaves as Scientology behaves, you would be after them too. I will grant the Wahhabis are ... well, damn small fruit and high up the tree. But there's some gooseberry bushes around. Amway, for instance. Benny Hinn and so forth.
Or would you like some cream and sugar for your strawberries? posted by aeschenkarnos at 3:52 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
this thread are desperately trying to justify their failure to do a fucking thing
I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm telling you flat out: I am NOT doing anything about it becuase I don't give three slightly warmed shits.
But I admire your almost Jedi-like selfless dedication to the destruction of what you see to be the ultimate evil of the universe. Seeing such earnest dedication is almost enough to inspire one to found a puppet theater or start a secret society.
There's no net "lose" for Anonymous raiding CoS. Because they are not raiding Wahhabism or Benny Hinn doesn't mean that their actions mean any less. Reading this thread feels a little bit like reading the howlings of linux zealots that the Gates Foundation is morally bankrupt because Bill made his money at Microsoft.
The kids did something good, they did it in a new, novel way, and they managed to do it without falling into a lot of the obvious pitfalls. What's more, they maintained a sense of humor throughout the whole endeavor...
I'd bet that Anonymous doesn't take itself too seriously, but some of the responses to this thread clearly do... posted by Cathedral at 4:04 PM on February 11 [2 favorites]
Picking on SoC is low hanging fruit.
Well, Anonymous isn't strong enough or situated properly to take on, say, evil multinational corporations, the Republican party, or fundamentalist Muslims, but I look forward to the lulz if it can scale up to that point. posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 4:05 PM on February 11
In a less snarky vein, tkchrist, I agree that it's low-hanging fruit and that in the grand scheme of the evil that men do, the excesses of the CoS are probably not all that big. Nonetheless, there have been a bunch of people who have been demonstrably hurt by the church, and I don't really see what harm it does to raise awareness about that in the population at large.
You know I went to the VA with my dad a little while ago. He needed a new hearing aid. There was a group of four Iraq vets waiting to get a van pool over to some kind of PT session or something. One dude didn't have a nose. I mean he had an open frigg'n cavity in his face where there was a nose. Another guy looked totally normal except he only had four fingers on one hand...and then you looked close and his legs and his other arm were partial prosthesis. These guys were young enough to be my kids. I call that demonstrably hurt.
One could make the argument that these soldiers were volunteers to a war that disfigured them. That maybe they should have known better sp why should I care? I'm not making that argument. Sure, all of them knew the risks, accept it, and try to get on with life the best they can. But they need my help to make sure they get the justice guaranteed them becuase it's my tax dollars and my complacency that is partially responsible for sending them to a bad war and fucking them up. I owe them.
When I think of SoS I DO make that argument. If you have somebody involved with a church post 1995, when all the information was widely available about it's practices and kookery for over twenty years, then I have hard time mustering much sympathy. How stupid do you have to be to believe in alien ghosts living in volcanos? I don't owe those stupid people shit.
TheOnlyCoolTim, here is an attempt to tally:
http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtopic.php?t=1737
"Overall Total: 107 raids, 17 countries, 7725-8250 people"
However, I find it likely that this list is not yet complete. posted by magnusbe at 4:20 PM on February 11
Or would you like some cream and sugar for your strawberries?
btw, not your personal army. posted by ryoshu at 4:26 PM on February 11
Well, Anonymous isn't strong enough or situated properly to take on, say, evil multinational corporations, the Republican party, or fundamentalist Muslims, but I look forward to the lulz if it can scale up to that point.
And I will too. I am impressed by the technique used by these guys. But face it. The furor expressed over CoS has nothing to do with a principled stand over free speech or individuals being hurt by these church and everything to do with a virtual adolescent turf war over what these Anon guys see as THEIR territory. And the Cos is an obvious and simple target that get good LULZ. posted by tkchrist at 4:27 PM on February 11
If you have somebody involved with a church post 1995, when all the information was widely available about it's practices and kookery for over twenty years, then I have hard time mustering much sympathy.
Well, fair enough, although I don't agree with you. The reason that people get pulled into cults, in my understanding, is not that they are stupid or uninformed, but that they are in an emotionally vulnerable period of their lives and they happen upon someone who exploits that vulnerability. I can't really fault them for that, though it doesn't give them a pass to participate in CoS shenanigans like "fair game" either.
In terms of the damage that's been done by the church, I don't personally find it easy to place these things next to one another on some sort of absolute scale of good and evil. But I agree with you, I think, in that for me, all of the wrongs perpetrated by the CoS together pale in comparison to the awful suffering caused by the Iraq War.
But, I don't know that this comparison would be the same for me if I knew somebody personally who had been hurt by the church, and I don't think the CoS side of the equation (NSFW) is zero, so I'm having a tough time understanding why some people are getting so angry about Anonymous's actions here. What should Anonymous be doing instead? posted by whir at 4:34 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
I'm still pissed at the Church of Scientology. Not for hawking a stupid scam of a religion (lots of those around), but because they cheated the New York Times Bestseller List back in the 80s, thus causing me to question my taste in reading. All og Hubbard's books were screaming to the top, and I love a good book, but those were just mediocre space opera stories...at best. For a while, I thought my ability to detect a good book had gotten dated or something and that Hubbard's books were what the 'new generation' *liked* to read. I was much reassured to find out that peoples' reading tastes don't stink *that* much.
As for the scam...er, religion, itself, well, I can't feel too sorry for anyone who gets sucked in by them. I mean, c'mon, Hubbard's own son explained it was all a tax-evasion profiteering scam run by ruthless and immoral folks, his father being first and foremost among them. All the info you could ever want to know about their fakery and dishonesty is out there, available to all. People need to do some due diligence before deciding on something as central to one's life as a religion.
Remember the quacks of the 1800s, selling folks fake remedies in a bottle? That's basically what the CoS does, except their quackery involves electrodes and mysterious machines, and the cures they promise are more of the spiritual kind than the physical. Preying on the hopes of the forlorn is what religions do, so in that sense, I suppose they are a religion. Most religions aren't so blatant with the profiteering though, which gives the CoS that strong scammy smell.
I want my money back for those crappy books! posted by jamstigator at 4:46 PM on February 11
I don't see people attacking environmentalists for not fighting AIDS-- people pick different causes and I don't know why anyone who knows about how Scientology operates would oppose those who oppose it. The argument that other religions do the same thing simply isn't true-- other religions which aren't cults do not charge people thousands of dollars to "advance" spiritually.
There are clear, concrete differences between religions and cults and they have nothing to do with the beliefs involved or the newness or oldness of the religion: they have to do with whether the organization has a totalizing immersion process and works to cut people off from outside influences completely until they have internalized the idea that the group is the one true way and its ends justify any means.
Other organizations have not terrorized big media into watering down any coverage into lulz or non-expose exposes: the fact that the mainstream media steers clear is frightening and serves as an example of how money and lawyers can indeed silence almost everyone. posted by Maias at 4:52 PM on February 11 [4 favorites]
To be honest, I'm just disappointed that simply by going to see the protest here and taking pictures (while taking flyers and offering thumbs-up and etc), my friend and I appear to have been branded Scientologists. I'm hoping they decide to re-title their photos on flickr which feature us ("The Head Clam"? Really?)
I love the movement for the fact that it translated so well into RL, but there was a certain air of paranoia about it. I guess I can't blame them, really. But I definitely felt like the 'welcome civilians, focus on educating the public' angle wasn't quite coming together right. posted by six-or-six-thirty at 5:15 PM on February 11
What should Anonymous be doing instead?
They should do what ever they feel they should do. My problem is other posters over hyping the threat posed by Scientology.
The argument that other religions do the same thing simply isn't true
And for the ump-tillionth time nobody is arguing that Scientology is NOT a cult. Nor are they saying they are all the same. What we said is that in comparison to the sins of the mainstream religions, sins that include fucking genocide and complicity in genocide mind you, bilking people out of their money is somewhat tame but no less wrong. And some people were saying that other religions don't intimidate or use threats. And I'd say slaughtering entire societies is a pretty major form of intimidation that resonates hundreds of years.
I don't see people attacking environmentalists for not fighting AIDS-- people pick different causes
Yes. You can choose expend your energies bringing the CoS to justice. But frankly comparing that expenditure of energy to dividing resources up between environmentalism and AIDS is goofy. In the grand scheme of things CoS is not anywhere near the same level of civilizational threat.
If I came in yelling about my pet cause, say, legalization of de-clawing cats or say how the City of Seattle illegally used Parking Ticket fines to fund capitol projects against city charter and then "intimidated" people (by slowing permit applications and the like) from making hay about it... whatever... would it be okay for me to accuse other posters of masturbating becuase they DON'T think that is the biggest cause on the planet?
Is my cause as important to somebody else spending equal time and resources fighting the genocide in Rawanda? Are there priorities to causes? Are there degrees to which we should be outraged? I think so.
Not every outrage is created equal. posted by tkchrist at 5:25 PM on February 11
The only thing I object to about the /b/tards attacks on the CoS are the DDoS aspects. If they wanna protest, wearing Guy Faweks masks or no, that's their right. The DDoS attacks I object to.
But I'm not going to applaud them, for reasons others have pointed out. They've invested their time, energy, etc in an ultimately meaningless protest against a powerless and largely meaningless group. I'm supposed to be impressed? To think they are heroes? Pfft, they're a bunch of /b/tards who took the lulz off the net for a while, they aren't heroes, they won't make even the faintest bit of difference to the CoS one way or the other.
I do admire the way they managed to take report from the initial sucker at FOX who breathlessly reported on "Anonymous" as if it were an actual group, and parlay that into an even bigger joke on all the suckers who *continue* to think that Anonymous is a real group. That takes some chutzpah, and a lot of luck. So yay /b/tards for getting ever more media idiots to fall for the joke.
I can see how people who personally know someone harmed by the CoS would feel, irrationally, that the CoS is bigger and more powerful than it actually is. What I can't see is how anyone not so personally involved can get so worked up over a bunch of powerless kooks. I spend my time worrying about kooks with power, like Pat Robertson, or the Ayatollah, or the Pope.
I don't insist that others worry only about what I worry about, but I don't take people who spend their time worrying about the CoS much more seriously than I take, say, people who spend their time worrying about ChemTrails, or the Illuminati. Yes, the CoS is real (unlike ChemTrails and the Illuminati) and has hurt a tiny number of people; but, no it isn't a threat to anyone but people stupid enough to get suckered into it and therefore I find all the sound and fury expressed at the CoS annoying because I *do* see that as a distraction from real threats.
I guess I could have shortened that to: "Meh, wake me up when the /b/tards do something interesting and/or important" posted by sotonohito at 5:32 PM on February 11
Yes, shame on Anonymous for not toppling Al Qaida. Come on guys, pick up the slack.
Get something REAL done. Y'know, aside from getting OVER 9000 youngsters at least vaguely interested in activism of one sort of another and making a point that has been needed to made loud and clear for some time now. posted by davros42 at 5:35 PM on February 11
I have to say, Rickrolling has much more class than goatse. posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:00 PM on February 11
I have to say, Rickrolling has much more class than goatse.
That's true, I actually would have expected a /b/ protest to consist mostly of 14-year-olds shouting "fag" at the top of their lungs. posted by whir at 6:11 PM on February 11
I think a lot of the snarkers here are missing the point. I hear a lot of people decrying this as improper for a "movement" since it lacks a narrative, or doesn't accomplish anything. The real campaign against the target is happening almost entirely online, and I think it's effectiveness should be measured there. The internet showing up is really just gravy.
And tkchrist, I don't think the cause here is what is noteworthy. It's the means. This is the kind of shit that happens in Mangas; a Standalone Complex. There is no narrative.
I personally would like to see similar tactics employed in fighting the Iraq war. I lived in DC and went to every rally, but can't say that I really miss the experience. This on the other hand is pretty awesome, and I wish I hadn't missed it. posted by butterstick at 6:24 PM on February 11
And tkchrist, I don't think the cause here is what is noteworthy. It's the means. This is the kind of shit that happens in Mangas; a Standalone Complex. There is no narrative.
Yes. I agree. Certainly. Hence the value of the OP. And I already said I admire the accomplishment of the general technique. posted by tkchrist at 7:12 PM on February 11
"I personally would like to see similar tactics employed in fighting the Iraq war. "
What tactics? DDoS attacks? You wanna measure the "effectiveness" of this campaign online? What actual, measurable effect has it had past those hacks? It's pissed off the CoS? Man, a speculation about Tom Cruise having a fused skull got their panties in a bunch.
What the fuck is "noteworthy" here? posted by klangklangston at 7:13 PM on February 11
What tactics? DDoS attacks? You wanna measure the "effectiveness" of this campaign online? What actual, measurable effect has it had past those hacks? It's pissed off the CoS?
Well, I know about several dozen or so deaths under suspicious circumstances related to Scientology that I didn't know about before, along with all the other financial-related chicanery of the CoS. And knowing about all that makes me a helluva lot more likely to inform other people and
Hey, I'm no fan of Anonymous - a bunch of them went on a trolling-and-DDoSing spree of a bunch of my favorite websites late last year, and there's nothing quite like having all the threads of your favorite forum replaced with racial slurs and porn - but hey, CoS does hurt people, and they're out to stop the hurting (for once). It may not be working for the Peace Corps, but it's more than I did yesterday. posted by bettafish at 7:36 PM on February 11
"Well, I know about several dozen or so deaths under suspicious circumstances related to Scientology that I didn't know about before, along with all the other financial-related chicanery of the CoS. And knowing about all that makes me a helluva lot more likely to inform other people and"
So? You inform other people. They all sit around and go "Yes, yes, Scientology is fuxxored." So what?
Instead of this bullshit hippy-dippy "awareness raising" crap, how about you try to quantify the effects of this "campaign"? That's the fundamental disconnect for me in this thread—no one seems able to or interested in quantifying, preferring to babble on about how, like, it's, like, negative publicity or some such shit. Wow, they got a bunch of pizzas delivered. Thank God scientologists hate pizza and wouldn't eat it.
As for the revolutionary new methods of social networking that some here seem taken with, it's nothing that the Paultards haven't done, and hey, how effective has that been? posted by klangklangston at 7:54 PM on February 11
klangklangston: What protest groups when they start have ever quantified what effect they have?
Are you sure Ron Paul's followers haven't had an effect? What effect did Goldwater have after he lost the presidential race? Showing that real limited government and war opposition has real popularity within the GOP is important. It's far to early to make pronouncements about Ron Paul's impact.
That said, surely the information that has been made available about the CoS is the most devastating thing. It would be very interesting to see how the membership of Scientology is going now that you can so easily get info on the net about what a farce it is. With wikipedia and xenu.net being the 2nd and 3rd hits on google you would have to figure the CoS is in serious trouble.
Scientology could be neutralised by removing their tax exempt status and requiring them to report more to the government. What the Germans have done is a good idea. And protests like these may get more governments to act.
Kudos to Anonymous, it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. posted by sien at 8:21 PM on February 11
For Halloween one year I was a generic "revolutionary". I wore a beret and dressed in black. I came up with my own vague slogan, carried around my the Little Lavender Book and wrote the same meaningless acronym on the walls of my high school. It was fun.
I like that goal #3 is "Obtain epic and memorable lulz". CoS is obviously a very bad thing (tm). It's nice to see people believe they can fight it partially with humor. posted by jeffburdges at 1:59 AM on February 12
sien I'm all in favor of the CoS losing its tax exempt status, as long as we also remove it from all the other religions. I've never understood why religion is granted special privilages that other groups aren't, and I think its wrong that it is.
But, if you want, say, the Roman Catholic Church to be tax exempt and the CoS to pay taxes I've got a problem. posted by sotonohito at 4:26 AM on February 12
I'm torn. I think live rickrolling is hella awesome. But I also get a big whiff of something similar to the antiwar/G8 protests of the late 90s/early 00s. You know the types, the protests that were rife with giant puppets, chicks in missile-shaped bikinis, and other weird costumes.
I could never figure out who the audience was for these protests. It certainly wasn't Joe Average or Mary Voter. How could a horde of screaming 20 somethings sway opinions? It wasn't the Administration or G8 or anything. Why would they listen to a giant Uncle Sam puppet wearing a diaper? The closest thing I saw to an audience were all the cameras, from participants and the media, at the event. But even then, the media would just show all the neo-hippie costumes on the 5 o'clock news and totally skip over the message. The only people who would have an actual good idea of what the protest was about were the ones protesting.
The same could be said for these CoS protests/events. Only the core participants, both at the event and at home online, would have any idea what the hell was going on. They are their own audience, even more so than the G8 people due to the prevalence of internet memes and other injokes. The need for narrative mentioned above is important, even if it's just some sort of easy to access introduction/rundown like Improv Everywhere does with their missions. If Anonymous wants to actually produce change, they need to be more inclusive with their presentation.
All that said, were I younger and more inclined to weird hijinx, I would totally be there with Anonymous. I think it was about ten years ago when some friends and I went to go, uh, "plant some seeds" down at the CoS center on Bay State. CoS is a great target because they're just the sort of "send dread legal notice, ask questions later" group that takes itself very seriously and can be griefed for epic lulz. I'd like to see that, but accessing the point of the protest is totally tl;dr.
From the pictures I've seen, the Anonymous protests seemed way more on message than the antiwar protests. I've seen 2 or 3 longcat banners, a couple rickrolls, and a bit of meme-type stuff that didn't really distract from the message, like Anons in suits or a "Scientology: EPIC FAIL" sign which is still pretty clear. Com
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posted by Pope Guilty at 10:01 AM on February 11 [4 favorites]