Santorum's getting treated like....santorum?
February 14, 2010 6:16 AM Subscribe
Rick (SFW) Santorum (NSFW) says the gays are pickin' on supporters of California's Proposition 8, which defines marriage as being between a man and a woman.
This post was deleted for the following reason: I'm not sure that literally anything good can come of a post of/about an editorial by Rick Santorum. -- cortex
But... but... but... the supporters are the righteous ones! God and Jesus and the Bible and stuff!
I also say good. If you're going to be a bigot you should also be prepared to face the consequences of bigotry. Bigots should be called out and shamed. That's how you deal with them. Images of bigots torturing black demonstrators in their Sunday best, and the shameful way this looked to the rest of the country and the world, was a big reason why segregation ended.
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:31 AM on February 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
I also say good. If you're going to be a bigot you should also be prepared to face the consequences of bigotry. Bigots should be called out and shamed. That's how you deal with them. Images of bigots torturing black demonstrators in their Sunday best, and the shameful way this looked to the rest of the country and the world, was a big reason why segregation ended.
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:31 AM on February 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
The reaction of some Prop 8 opponents - the self-proclaimed champions of tolerance - was swift and fierce.
Who the fuck said anything about being tolerant of intolerance?
Top officials of California Musical Theatre and the Los Angeles Film Festival were forced to resign just because they had donated in support of Prop 8.
I can't imagine what kind of closet case works in Musical Theatre and donates to anti-gay causes.
posted by stavrogin at 6:33 AM on February 14, 2010 [2 favorites]
Who the fuck said anything about being tolerant of intolerance?
Top officials of California Musical Theatre and the Los Angeles Film Festival were forced to resign just because they had donated in support of Prop 8.
I can't imagine what kind of closet case works in Musical Theatre and donates to anti-gay causes.
posted by stavrogin at 6:33 AM on February 14, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's saddening to think that people like Santorum who were more than willing to perpetuate harassment and discrimination when in the majority cannot take the heat when they're in the minority.
What does that tell you about their leadership abilities? I'll side with the people of Pennsylvania for making the right choice in brooming this chump from office.
posted by jsavimbi at 6:34 AM on February 14, 2010
What does that tell you about their leadership abilities? I'll side with the people of Pennsylvania for making the right choice in brooming this chump from office.
posted by jsavimbi at 6:34 AM on February 14, 2010
I mean, their whole argument rests on the idea that they're the majority, it's just the "ultra-liberals" and those nasty gays themselves that want to push all this icky buttsex on everyone, right? By making them look like the backward fucking hicks they are, it defeats their whole premise.
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:35 AM on February 14, 2010
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:35 AM on February 14, 2010
Playing to his base supporters. Everyone knows that the hard right just loves Santorum. They eat this stuff up.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:37 AM on February 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by R. Mutt at 6:37 AM on February 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
He even allowed one witness to testify that his parents tried to change his sexual orientation. The witness was a gay Colorado man who had never lived in California or been exposed to any Proposition 8 campaign messages.
What the fuck is HE complaining about? We only took away some other gay guy's rights.
posted by fleetmouse at 6:37 AM on February 14, 2010
What the fuck is HE complaining about? We only took away some other gay guy's rights.
posted by fleetmouse at 6:37 AM on February 14, 2010
Once again, conservatives do best by falsely accusing others of what they themselves are practicing. There really is an anti-gay agenda that really does plan on pushing their lifestyle down your throat.
posted by DU at 6:37 AM on February 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by DU at 6:37 AM on February 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
Anybody should have the right to marry the person they love. Yet some will only understand the privilege of getting 2 years worth of hellyeah, no obligation, until they're picking out curtains...and wishing they were on a sailboat somewhere.
Gay persons: As a married man, I can assure you the opposition balks at this "sanctity of marriage", too.
Some just don't want y'all to have the same tax breaks, competing bids on property, etc.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 6:38 AM on February 14, 2010
Gay persons: As a married man, I can assure you the opposition balks at this "sanctity of marriage", too.
Some just don't want y'all to have the same tax breaks, competing bids on property, etc.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 6:38 AM on February 14, 2010
It's saddening to think that people like Santorum who were more than willing to perpetuate harassment and discrimination when in the majority cannot take the heat when they're in the minority.
Bullying 101. This is basically how the GOP rolls.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:38 AM on February 14, 2010
Bullying 101. This is basically how the GOP rolls.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:38 AM on February 14, 2010
Everyone knows that the hard right just loves Santorum. They eat this stuff up.
posted by applemeat at 6:42 AM on February 14, 2010 [14 favorites]
posted by applemeat at 6:42 AM on February 14, 2010 [14 favorites]
Can you boycott the business of someone you disagree with? Of course.
Can you choose not to associate with people you disagree with? Yes.
Can you criticize the opinions of those you disagree with? Not only can you, but you ought to.
Can you support legislation and legislators that reflect your own view? Democracy demands that you do.
Can you insult and persecute people that you disagree with? Only if you think that the ends justifies the means. Witch hunts are not magically transformed into righteous affairs simply because the person being hunted is morally in the wrong. As the old saying goes two wrongs do not make a right.
posted by oddman at 6:47 AM on February 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
Can you choose not to associate with people you disagree with? Yes.
Can you criticize the opinions of those you disagree with? Not only can you, but you ought to.
Can you support legislation and legislators that reflect your own view? Democracy demands that you do.
Can you insult and persecute people that you disagree with? Only if you think that the ends justifies the means. Witch hunts are not magically transformed into righteous affairs simply because the person being hunted is morally in the wrong. As the old saying goes two wrongs do not make a right.
posted by oddman at 6:47 AM on February 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
Remember when they complained that broadcasting the prop 8 trials would scare away all of their supporters, because they were afraid gays would make fun of them?
Their basic point is "Gays will ruin my marriage, but a little hate mail and name calling scares me so much that I'd sooner let my marriage die." They are either hypocrites, don't value their marriage or are weak.
If you're going to fight to take away someone's rights, don't be surprised that they'll fight back. As much as you've tried to dehumanize them, gays like marriage just as much as you bigots.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:47 AM on February 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Their basic point is "Gays will ruin my marriage, but a little hate mail and name calling scares me so much that I'd sooner let my marriage die." They are either hypocrites, don't value their marriage or are weak.
If you're going to fight to take away someone's rights, don't be surprised that they'll fight back. As much as you've tried to dehumanize them, gays like marriage just as much as you bigots.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:47 AM on February 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, for the record, I am personally scandalized by Santorum and his ilk. He does not speak for all Catholics. Frankly he gives us a bad name and I wish he'd shut the hell up and go hide in a deep dark hole.
posted by oddman at 6:50 AM on February 14, 2010
posted by oddman at 6:50 AM on February 14, 2010
He starts off with a blanket assertion: Kids need a mom and a dad.
Which is then relegated to "a deeply held belief" in the next sentence.
And he fails to follow through on any of the logical corollaries of that assertion, namely:
posted by jenkinsEar at 6:51 AM on February 14, 2010 [7 favorites]
Which is then relegated to "a deeply held belief" in the next sentence.
And he fails to follow through on any of the logical corollaries of that assertion, namely:
- If kids need a mom and dad, it's in the state's interest to forcibly remove the children of widows and widowers and place them in foster care.
- If marriage is solely about the ability to procreate and raise children, then the state should deny marriage licenses to the infertile, to post-menopausal women, and to couples who do not intend to raise children.
- If the state is in the business of regulating "deeply held beliefs" that are based on religious doctrine, then there is a clear constitutional violation. When, as a nation, we have used "deeply held beliefs" as a proxy for who is entitled to civil rights, we have done poorly. Sometimes, people believe things that are stupid.
posted by jenkinsEar at 6:51 AM on February 14, 2010 [7 favorites]
I couldn't read past the first line: "Kids need a mom and a dad." Yuck.
posted by futureisunwritten at 6:52 AM on February 14, 2010
posted by futureisunwritten at 6:52 AM on February 14, 2010
If these people think they're on a religious crusade, wouldn't they expect to be treated awful and suffer as a test before God? As far right Christians, don't they believe they are the eye of the sinful hurricane?
Consider what happened to these Christians. If fighting gay rights is God's work, He's letting them off easy.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:54 AM on February 14, 2010
Consider what happened to these Christians. If fighting gay rights is God's work, He's letting them off easy.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:54 AM on February 14, 2010
If kids need a mom and a dad, we need to ensure that there will always be a mom and a dad for these kids. Many copies keeps stuff safe, so let's mandate polygamy and require at least two moms and two dads to each kid. If there is a horrible accident where two of the parents pass away, leaving the kid dadless or momless, a member of the National Guard will be assigned to carry out emergency parenthood duties.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:57 AM on February 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:57 AM on February 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
Will a single dad/mom make their children bisexual?
posted by PenDevil at 7:03 AM on February 14, 2010
posted by PenDevil at 7:03 AM on February 14, 2010
This is something that the modern Republican party and libertarians never get right: the problem with historic examples of discrimination are that they reflected a way for the powerful to remain so and they made society less equal. It's the difference between Jim Crow and Affirmative Action. The harm isn't that someone somewhere was discriminated against, it's that there was a systematic effort to disempower an already disempowered group on the basis of a characteristic that formed part of their subordination.
When GLBT individuals and organizations are attacked by right-wingers in this country, whether it's in the form of individual hate crimes or Prop 8, it reflects a process where a subordinated minority is made less equal. When someone holds Rick Santorum accountable for his beliefs, society is not made worse off in the same way - just as it would not be made worse off by discriminating against someone who chooses to be a Klansman.
posted by allen.spaulding at 7:08 AM on February 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
When GLBT individuals and organizations are attacked by right-wingers in this country, whether it's in the form of individual hate crimes or Prop 8, it reflects a process where a subordinated minority is made less equal. When someone holds Rick Santorum accountable for his beliefs, society is not made worse off in the same way - just as it would not be made worse off by discriminating against someone who chooses to be a Klansman.
posted by allen.spaulding at 7:08 AM on February 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
Another amazing wingnut.
Watch: NH Rep. Nancy Elliott Offers Graphic Description of Anal Sex During Marriage Equality Debate
Watch: NH Rep. Nancy Elliott Offers Graphic Description of Anal Sex During Marriage Equality Debate
She explains what same-sex marriage means to her:posted by ericb at 7:14 AM on February 14, 2010
'We're talking about taking the penis of one man, and putting it into the rectum of another man, and wiggling it around in excrement, and you have to think. I'm not sure. Would I allow that to be done to me? All of us — that could happen to you — Would you like that happen to you? Is that normal? Is that something that we want to portray as the same as the one-flesh union between a man and a woman?'
She then says that marriage equality should be repealed after claiming that the law has caused children in a Nashua classroom to be shown graphic images of what she described above."
Now these bigots are foaming at their mouths after recently learning that Prop 8 Judge Vaughn Walker is himself gay. Forget the fact that he was chosen randomly for the trial and, as has been pointed out, he has a proven record of impartiality.
posted by ericb at 7:21 AM on February 14, 2010
posted by ericb at 7:21 AM on February 14, 2010
The attitude here disappoints me. Sure, it's fun to pick on people who disagree with you, but that doesn't make it right. Is making these people angry really going to pave the way toward overturning Prop 8? I think not.
The right thing to do, rather than venting our anger and frustration at people who don't understand, is to reach out to these people and keep persistently trying to show them that gay people and gay supporters are good, kind, reasonable people just like them. You can't change someone's ideology through force, only through patience and friendship.
posted by Xezlec at 7:24 AM on February 14, 2010
The right thing to do, rather than venting our anger and frustration at people who don't understand, is to reach out to these people and keep persistently trying to show them that gay people and gay supporters are good, kind, reasonable people just like them. You can't change someone's ideology through force, only through patience and friendship.
posted by Xezlec at 7:24 AM on February 14, 2010
Oops ... here's the proper link for "foaming at their mouths."
posted by ericb at 7:25 AM on February 14, 2010
posted by ericb at 7:25 AM on February 14, 2010
She then says that marriage equality should be repealed after claiming that the law has caused children in a Nashua classroom to be shown graphic images of what she described above."
Which the school system subsequently denied, by the way:
posted by zarq at 7:27 AM on February 14, 2010
Which the school system subsequently denied, by the way:
The comments have Nashua school officials at a loss. Nothing resembling what Elliott said is being taught in any of Nashua’s schools, officials say.
Superintendent Mark Conrad said school officials have asked all elementary school principals about the claim. Conrad said there is no evidence to substantiate Elliott’s comment and no parents have called to complain.
“We don’t have any information that this has occurred,” Conrad said Friday.
Elliott, a supporter of the bill to repeal same-sex marriage, relayed to the committee a phone call she claimed to have received from a Nashua parent the day before. Her committee ended up voting 12-8 to recommend killing the bill.
N.H. Democratic Party Executive Director Michael Brunelle said Friday that Elliott’s comments went beyond a lawmaker’s free speech rights and should be publicly condemned.
“Every legislator has a responsibility to speak the truth,’’ said Brunelle, who previously represented Manchester in the House of Representatives. “It is totally inappropriate to make these statements that are inflammatory and clearly hurtful.”
posted by zarq at 7:27 AM on February 14, 2010
Yes, but where does Santorum stand on the "man on dog" issue?
Why he gets paid for his opinion is beyond me.
posted by Ron Thanagar at 7:31 AM on February 14, 2010
Why he gets paid for his opinion is beyond me.
posted by Ron Thanagar at 7:31 AM on February 14, 2010
Federal Judge Vaughn Walker has accepted the Prop 8 opponents' assertion that constitutionality hinges on the attitudes of voters, not legal arguments and precedents.
Of course, the passing of prop 8 itself hinged on the attitudes of voters, as did the passing of all similar legislation. But let's ignore that, shall we? And while he can throw around their 'precedents' because those do technically exist in many states, there's no way in hell he can throw around 'legal arguments' because their legal arguments are based solely on their religious beliefs and nothing else. I've yet to hear one cogent, logical argument for denying rights to a specific, targeted group of people.
And, of course, lets keep in mind that just because something is a precedent doesn't mean that it's right.
Xezlec: The attitude here disappoints me. Sure, it's fun to pick on people who disagree with you, but that doesn't make it right.
Funny how you're preaching that to the LGBT community and not the large religious bloc that's been picking on them. Honestly, if people think that the bible says that gays are abominations in the face of god, then do you think that they even have the capacity to see gay people as 'good people'? If the LGBT community is all super-nice to the religious conservatives and they still don't budge, should the LGBT community be content to just wring their hands for the rest of eternity?
posted by Consonants Without Vowels at 7:33 AM on February 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Of course, the passing of prop 8 itself hinged on the attitudes of voters, as did the passing of all similar legislation. But let's ignore that, shall we? And while he can throw around their 'precedents' because those do technically exist in many states, there's no way in hell he can throw around 'legal arguments' because their legal arguments are based solely on their religious beliefs and nothing else. I've yet to hear one cogent, logical argument for denying rights to a specific, targeted group of people.
And, of course, lets keep in mind that just because something is a precedent doesn't mean that it's right.
Xezlec: The attitude here disappoints me. Sure, it's fun to pick on people who disagree with you, but that doesn't make it right.
Funny how you're preaching that to the LGBT community and not the large religious bloc that's been picking on them. Honestly, if people think that the bible says that gays are abominations in the face of god, then do you think that they even have the capacity to see gay people as 'good people'? If the LGBT community is all super-nice to the religious conservatives and they still don't budge, should the LGBT community be content to just wring their hands for the rest of eternity?
posted by Consonants Without Vowels at 7:33 AM on February 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
...good, kind, reasonable people just like them.
ORLY?
posted by ericb at 7:34 AM on February 14, 2010
ORLY?
posted by ericb at 7:34 AM on February 14, 2010
Witch hunts are not magically transformed into righteous affairs simply because the person being hunted is morally in the wrong. As the old saying goes two wrongs do not make a right.
People made donations to groups that supported the passing of Proposition 8.
These people own businesses.
Other People who frequent these businesses most likely have beliefs that don't square with the owners of said businesses.
Is it wrong to protest in front of the businesses owned by prop 8 supporters to raise awareness? By doing so, customers who don't necessarily agree with the political viewpoints of said business owners can then choose not to give them any scratch.
I don't only think it's right, and righteous, I think it's a responsibility of those that believe in the inherent incorrectness of Proposition 8. Were it that I lived in California, I would be doing the same thing.
posted by orville sash at 7:34 AM on February 14, 2010 [7 favorites]
People made donations to groups that supported the passing of Proposition 8.
These people own businesses.
Other People who frequent these businesses most likely have beliefs that don't square with the owners of said businesses.
Is it wrong to protest in front of the businesses owned by prop 8 supporters to raise awareness? By doing so, customers who don't necessarily agree with the political viewpoints of said business owners can then choose not to give them any scratch.
I don't only think it's right, and righteous, I think it's a responsibility of those that believe in the inherent incorrectness of Proposition 8. Were it that I lived in California, I would be doing the same thing.
posted by orville sash at 7:34 AM on February 14, 2010 [7 favorites]
She then says that marriage equality should be repealed after claiming that the law has caused children in a Nashua classroom to be shown graphic images of what she described above.
At first it appears to be finger-painting but could it be a Dirty Sanchez? I'm not sure.
posted by hal9k at 7:34 AM on February 14, 2010
At first it appears to be finger-painting but could it be a Dirty Sanchez? I'm not sure.
posted by hal9k at 7:34 AM on February 14, 2010
Shocker: bigoted ex-senator is bigoted. Who cares what this guy says?
posted by Nelson at 7:35 AM on February 14, 2010
posted by Nelson at 7:35 AM on February 14, 2010
You can't change someone's ideology through force, only through patience and friendship.
Sometimes I agree with this, and then sometimes I don't. You're not going to change the bible with patience and friendship, and sometimes it seems like violence is the only thing that people in power end up having to respect.
A lot of times that peaceful patient friendship stuff works only because a the threat of dangerous discord looms on the horizon if it doesn't. It just seems past time to just keep trying to be nice, and hope they like you.
posted by cashman at 7:35 AM on February 14, 2010
Sometimes I agree with this, and then sometimes I don't. You're not going to change the bible with patience and friendship, and sometimes it seems like violence is the only thing that people in power end up having to respect.
A lot of times that peaceful patient friendship stuff works only because a the threat of dangerous discord looms on the horizon if it doesn't. It just seems past time to just keep trying to be nice, and hope they like you.
posted by cashman at 7:35 AM on February 14, 2010
Big lols at spreadingsantorum.com :D
Thanks for sharing :P
posted by Monkeymoo at 7:38 AM on February 14, 2010
Thanks for sharing :P
posted by Monkeymoo at 7:38 AM on February 14, 2010
Persecution?. . .I got yer persecution right here, pal.
posted by Danf at 7:40 AM on February 14, 2010
posted by Danf at 7:40 AM on February 14, 2010
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posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 6:24 AM on February 14, 2010 [6 favorites]