What Happened to Val Kilmer?
May 11, 2020 11:33 AM Subscribe
Cancer has taken his voice, but the unlikeliest movie star in Hollywood history still has a lot he wants to say. Content Warning: This story is not about coronavirus, but it is very much informed by the pandemic.
OK I have to stop mid-article and defend his performance in The Saint, which was a movie I loved as a teen and a movie that made me extremely horny. I was so embarrassed when we watched that movie at my church youth group (why???).
If you look at this not as a pure action movie but as an ahead-of-its-time romantic drama inspired by Meg Ryan rom coms (like Garden State but with more explosions), it's clear that Simon Templar is the Manic Pixie Dream Boy to Elizabeth Shue's scientist character. In that framing, his performance is luminary.
posted by muddgirl at 12:39 PM on May 11, 2020 [37 favorites]
If you look at this not as a pure action movie but as an ahead-of-its-time romantic drama inspired by Meg Ryan rom coms (like Garden State but with more explosions), it's clear that Simon Templar is the Manic Pixie Dream Boy to Elizabeth Shue's scientist character. In that framing, his performance is luminary.
posted by muddgirl at 12:39 PM on May 11, 2020 [37 favorites]
Poor fucker; another life blighted by Christian Science. He'll be dead soon.
I dunno if his copy of the Mark Twain book had the same words in it as the one I read, but my copy left it abundantly clear that old Sam was no fan of MBE. Twain pulled no punches in his criticism, and Kilmer's take is straight delusional.
posted by scruss at 12:51 PM on May 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
I dunno if his copy of the Mark Twain book had the same words in it as the one I read, but my copy left it abundantly clear that old Sam was no fan of MBE. Twain pulled no punches in his criticism, and Kilmer's take is straight delusional.
posted by scruss at 12:51 PM on May 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
Very well written.
Kilmer's been in a bunch of movies I like and two that I love: Heat, and Spartan. Regretfully, by arriving a day late, I missed a performance of Citizen Twain that he did in a cemetery in Hollywood a few years back.
I know nothing, really, of Christian Science, but agree with much -- but not all -- of the views expressed "by" Kilmer in the article. But then birds have always been a part of my family as well.
There's a heron that follows me whenever I leave Toronto. I've seen it in Havana, Cuba, Venice, California, Oliva, Spain, Cabarete, Dominican Republic, and most recently, Pango, Vanuatu, where it had changed from white to black. I know it's the same bird because it always greets me the the same way: "Carrion don't think." It took a while for the penny to drop, but the phrase has been a guiding principle ever since.
posted by dobbs at 1:12 PM on May 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Kilmer's been in a bunch of movies I like and two that I love: Heat, and Spartan. Regretfully, by arriving a day late, I missed a performance of Citizen Twain that he did in a cemetery in Hollywood a few years back.
I know nothing, really, of Christian Science, but agree with much -- but not all -- of the views expressed "by" Kilmer in the article. But then birds have always been a part of my family as well.
There's a heron that follows me whenever I leave Toronto. I've seen it in Havana, Cuba, Venice, California, Oliva, Spain, Cabarete, Dominican Republic, and most recently, Pango, Vanuatu, where it had changed from white to black. I know it's the same bird because it always greets me the the same way: "Carrion don't think." It took a while for the penny to drop, but the phrase has been a guiding principle ever since.
posted by dobbs at 1:12 PM on May 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
He was excellent as a blank, lethal cipher for violent masculinity - a cipher which was slowly worn away to see glimpses of the human, in Mamet’s Spartan, one of the hard-boiled-est of hardboiled thrillers of any era.
Fucking “christian” “science” should be banned and anyone who promulgates its demonstrable and spectacularly harmful falsehoods be locked up…. and their assets seized to pay for the treatment of its victims.
posted by lalochezia at 1:23 PM on May 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Fucking “christian” “science” should be banned and anyone who promulgates its demonstrable and spectacularly harmful falsehoods be locked up…. and their assets seized to pay for the treatment of its victims.
posted by lalochezia at 1:23 PM on May 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Well written but this is where I parted company with the article: "the squaring of two opposing things into something we swear is true despite all evidence to the contrary." That's a lot of compassion for reality-bending, and for the idea that it must be tolerated and embraced by others. In another timeline, I might think "Oh, well, whatever gets Val Kilmer through" but in this one, no: I don't want to excuse or glamorize lies and cognitive distortions and reality-denial because they are killing us. I hope Lydia's phone rang and that she will get her surgery soon.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:24 PM on May 11, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:24 PM on May 11, 2020 [8 favorites]
Interviewer: “How about Tom Cruise. You make fun of him sometimes?”
Kilmer: “You can’t make fun of Tom Cruise. Poor thing.” — Interview, March 24, 2011
Lol. All his best roles let that inner bitchiness shine.
The premise of this article is odd, Kilmer had a fantastic multi-decade career as a supporting and character actor with some pretty good leading roles, although he seemed happy enough to age out of being the classic leading man. I wouldn't call that any kind of fail or wonder what happened to him. He's worked consistently till he got really sick.
I would also like to fight back against this ridiculous rewrite of the 90s by what I can only assume is a young whippersnapper of a journalist : "by the time Kilmer came online as a movie star, normie roles were all there were, the ’90s standard-issue regular guy in extraordinary circumstances." That was not the 90s movie scene. They shouldn't be comparing him to Tom Cruise or Bruce Willis, Kilmer belongs firmly in the 90s oeuvre of of weird roles for weird guys. It's a real shame he didn't do more of those kinds of movies, a lot of the parts for white dudes his age seemed to go to Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp or Nic Cage. I know he got a lot of bad press around the time he did Island of Dr Moreau for basically being a demanding ass so maybe that was why.
Although The Saint was the weirdest fucking movie ever, it's so odd. Not least because it didn't turn out Elizabeth Shue's character was the little girl who fell off the staircase at the beginning and had survived after all.
posted by fshgrl at 1:31 PM on May 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
Kilmer: “You can’t make fun of Tom Cruise. Poor thing.” — Interview, March 24, 2011
Lol. All his best roles let that inner bitchiness shine.
The premise of this article is odd, Kilmer had a fantastic multi-decade career as a supporting and character actor with some pretty good leading roles, although he seemed happy enough to age out of being the classic leading man. I wouldn't call that any kind of fail or wonder what happened to him. He's worked consistently till he got really sick.
I would also like to fight back against this ridiculous rewrite of the 90s by what I can only assume is a young whippersnapper of a journalist : "by the time Kilmer came online as a movie star, normie roles were all there were, the ’90s standard-issue regular guy in extraordinary circumstances." That was not the 90s movie scene. They shouldn't be comparing him to Tom Cruise or Bruce Willis, Kilmer belongs firmly in the 90s oeuvre of of weird roles for weird guys. It's a real shame he didn't do more of those kinds of movies, a lot of the parts for white dudes his age seemed to go to Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp or Nic Cage. I know he got a lot of bad press around the time he did Island of Dr Moreau for basically being a demanding ass so maybe that was why.
Although The Saint was the weirdest fucking movie ever, it's so odd. Not least because it didn't turn out Elizabeth Shue's character was the little girl who fell off the staircase at the beginning and had survived after all.
posted by fshgrl at 1:31 PM on May 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
Twain pulled no punches in his criticism, and Kilmer's take is straight delusional.
It's crossover fanfic starring his faves, so I understand the impulse even as I doubt the quality.
There are some writerly tics in the article that I might not have noticed except that I recently read and immensely disliked Fleishman Is in Trouble.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:34 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
It's crossover fanfic starring his faves, so I understand the impulse even as I doubt the quality.
There are some writerly tics in the article that I might not have noticed except that I recently read and immensely disliked Fleishman Is in Trouble.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:34 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
They shouldn't be comparing him to Tom Cruise or Bruce Willis, Kilmer belongs firmly in the 90s oeuvre of of weird roles for weird guys. It's a real shame he didn't do more of those kinds of movies, a lot of the parts seemed to go to Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp or Nic Cage.
Agreed, he's definitely more on the spectrum that is closer to Nicholas Cage.
Also, I'm going to just straight up plug the documentary: Lost Soul: The Doomed Journey of Richard Stanley's Island of Dr. Moreau. It's a bonkers ass film, and an even zanier documentary that has a lot of fun insight into Brando and Kilmer.
posted by Fizz at 1:41 PM on May 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
Agreed, he's definitely more on the spectrum that is closer to Nicholas Cage.
Also, I'm going to just straight up plug the documentary: Lost Soul: The Doomed Journey of Richard Stanley's Island of Dr. Moreau. It's a bonkers ass film, and an even zanier documentary that has a lot of fun insight into Brando and Kilmer.
posted by Fizz at 1:41 PM on May 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
Fizz: "Agreed, he's definitely more on the spectrum that is closer to Nicholas Cage. "
Or even Crispin Glover.
posted by chavenet at 1:47 PM on May 11, 2020 [8 favorites]
Or even Crispin Glover.
posted by chavenet at 1:47 PM on May 11, 2020 [8 favorites]
scruss: Poor fucker; another life blighted by Christian Science. He'll be dead soon.
From the article:
Another similar piece: Val Kilmer Doesn't Believe in Death -- The iconic actor played Iceman, Doc Holliday, Batman, and Jim Morrison, but behind all the mythic roles was a man grasping for meaning wherever he could find it. Here he opens up about cancer, strength, and death. (Alex Pappademas for Men's Health, April 21, 2020)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:53 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
From the article:
He has kids, a grown son and daughter he had while he was still married to Joanne Whalley, and they’re not Christian Scientists. His family couldn’t let him go heal by himself; cancer, as they know it, is a thing that spreads. He relented. “I just didn’t want to experience their fear, which was profound,” Kilmer said. “I would’ve had to go away, and I just didn’t want to be without them.”So it sounds like he has accepted some treatment, but he may indeed limit his options because of his beliefs.
He had surgery that year, which was followed by chemotherapy and radiation “that zapped my whole throat, and it’s still dry as a bone” and left him with the tracheostomy tube and a feeding tube.
Another similar piece: Val Kilmer Doesn't Believe in Death -- The iconic actor played Iceman, Doc Holliday, Batman, and Jim Morrison, but behind all the mythic roles was a man grasping for meaning wherever he could find it. Here he opens up about cancer, strength, and death. (Alex Pappademas for Men's Health, April 21, 2020)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:53 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
The ability to listen to the article is great, and I took advantage of it while cooking dinner. It's not a happy portrait, or at least, he strikes me as a not-happy guy. Even if he paints himself as such, you come away with the impression that he's trying to jam the world into a shape it will not hold. So, I guess, it's a pretty compelling portrait, just, after listening to it I though, this is not a person I want to spend any time with.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:55 PM on May 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by From Bklyn at 1:55 PM on May 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
A friend and I happened to pick up Top Secret! on a sleepover VHS rental binge, many years after it was in theaters. We thought the cow in boots was funny, and it turned out to be one of the linchpins of our friendship. Kilmer was so handsome, but also part of the joke! The amazing gags and one-liners got us through high school. We also went to go see The Saint in theaters, and I feel it was an action movie targeted to teen girls (though I have not seen it since it's release). I sort followed his career post Saint, but in my memories that was Peak Kilmer to me.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 1:56 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 1:56 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
A huge amount of jokes I share with friends have been the result of Real Genius, and many in associated circles, as well. It was to the point that I made one of them and accidentally insulted a friend, who I then explained it. She said, "I've never seen it."
The following weekend, she came over, I cooked, and we watched Real Genius, and then as she hadn't seen Big Trouble in Little China either, we watched that too. The vision in her eyes as the source of so many jokes she hadn't understood until then was electric to watch, and suddenly she started laughing as something that she hadn't understood for years suddenly made sense to her.
So what I'm saying is that in the circles I womble through, Val Kilmer is a kind of Rosetta Stone for getting a lot of the jokes.
posted by mephron at 2:04 PM on May 11, 2020 [23 favorites]
The following weekend, she came over, I cooked, and we watched Real Genius, and then as she hadn't seen Big Trouble in Little China either, we watched that too. The vision in her eyes as the source of so many jokes she hadn't understood until then was electric to watch, and suddenly she started laughing as something that she hadn't understood for years suddenly made sense to her.
So what I'm saying is that in the circles I womble through, Val Kilmer is a kind of Rosetta Stone for getting a lot of the jokes.
posted by mephron at 2:04 PM on May 11, 2020 [23 favorites]
Peak Val Kilmer will always be Real Genius to me.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 2:09 PM on May 11, 2020 [30 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 2:09 PM on May 11, 2020 [30 favorites]
I like Kilmer. I’m always pleasantly surprised when a super-duper good-looking person is odd and interesting and not just . . . there. That’s just lookism, I know.
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 2:54 PM on May 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 2:54 PM on May 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Peak Val Kilmer will always be Real Genius to me.
Gosh, he was just *impossibly* good-looking in that movie.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:03 PM on May 11, 2020 [13 favorites]
Gosh, he was just *impossibly* good-looking in that movie.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:03 PM on May 11, 2020 [13 favorites]
Thunderheart is awesome. Having Graham Greene in it doesn't hurt it either.
posted by Windopaene at 3:37 PM on May 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 3:37 PM on May 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
and I feel it was an action movie targeted to teen girls
Exactly. It's not that boys want to be Simon Templar. It's that girls want to be Elizabeth Shue.
posted by muddgirl at 4:17 PM on May 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Exactly. It's not that boys want to be Simon Templar. It's that girls want to be Elizabeth Shue.
posted by muddgirl at 4:17 PM on May 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
The Socrates joke in Real Genius is one of my all time favorite things in a movie.
posted by badbobbycase at 4:56 PM on May 11, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by badbobbycase at 4:56 PM on May 11, 2020 [6 favorites]
Also, I'm going to just straight up plug the documentary: Lost Soul: The Doomed Journey of Richard Stanley's Island of Dr. Moreau. It's a bonkers ass film, and an even zanier documentary that has a lot of fun insight into Brando and Kilmer.
Oooh! I had no idea that existed, thanks for posting it, I'd love to watch it.
I met someone who worked on the Island of Dr Moreau once and he was just sure it was the inspiration for a chunk of Tropic Thunder.
posted by fshgrl at 5:49 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Oooh! I had no idea that existed, thanks for posting it, I'd love to watch it.
I met someone who worked on the Island of Dr Moreau once and he was just sure it was the inspiration for a chunk of Tropic Thunder.
posted by fshgrl at 5:49 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Until reading this thread, I had totally blocked off the fact that Kilmer made a (so-called) Saint movie. Shudder. That movie had no redeeming features whatsoever. Of course, I'm saying that as a died-in-the-wool Leslie Charteris fan, and somebody who appreciated the Roger Moore version. Whatever that movie was, it wasn't the Saint by even the wildest stretch of the imagination.
Since I was a big fan of the character, I ended up skipping seeing the film because I knew it wasn't for me. That is, until I was trapped on a long flight from California to Toronto. The Saint was the in-flight movie, and for whatever reason, I finally caved in. The person in the next seat over and I got to talking. At a certain point in the movie, he turned to me and said, "I'm actually a nuclear engineer (he later gave me his card, and sure enough, he was) and that's not how things work." Understatement of the year. Terrible, terrible, terrible movie. Kilmer has his charms but he was dissserved by being badly miscast in a terribly written film. (And for the record, I'm also not expecting the latest version--should it come to light--to be any better, again despite an otherwise likeable leading actor.)
posted by sardonyx at 6:10 PM on May 11, 2020
Since I was a big fan of the character, I ended up skipping seeing the film because I knew it wasn't for me. That is, until I was trapped on a long flight from California to Toronto. The Saint was the in-flight movie, and for whatever reason, I finally caved in. The person in the next seat over and I got to talking. At a certain point in the movie, he turned to me and said, "I'm actually a nuclear engineer (he later gave me his card, and sure enough, he was) and that's not how things work." Understatement of the year. Terrible, terrible, terrible movie. Kilmer has his charms but he was dissserved by being badly miscast in a terribly written film. (And for the record, I'm also not expecting the latest version--should it come to light--to be any better, again despite an otherwise likeable leading actor.)
posted by sardonyx at 6:10 PM on May 11, 2020
Well, since nobody else is going to mention it, I will -- Top Secret. The best Elvis musical WWII spy romance movie ever.
posted by hippybear at 6:29 PM on May 11, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 6:29 PM on May 11, 2020 [11 favorites]
And wasn't he Morrison in The Doors?
He's been in a lot of things I've seen, honestly. He was pretty go-to for a long time in a lot of different contexts.
posted by hippybear at 6:30 PM on May 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
He's been in a lot of things I've seen, honestly. He was pretty go-to for a long time in a lot of different contexts.
posted by hippybear at 6:30 PM on May 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also, this article is a really great read. An upper-level example of the form, and I really enjoyed it. Thanks for posting!
posted by hippybear at 7:05 PM on May 11, 2020
posted by hippybear at 7:05 PM on May 11, 2020
In 1988, still in the flush of his Top Gun fame, Kilmer thought it would be safe to attend a midnight showing on The Milagro Beanfield War in downtown Santa Fe. Little did he know that my senior high school class was on a "culture trip" (because gods know we needed it), had studied the book, and were taking in the same showing.
Alas, he ended up running away through old-town at 2am with a number of screaming high-school girls in pursuit.
Wish we were all young again, eh?
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 7:08 PM on May 11, 2020 [10 favorites]
Alas, he ended up running away through old-town at 2am with a number of screaming high-school girls in pursuit.
Wish we were all young again, eh?
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 7:08 PM on May 11, 2020 [10 favorites]
The Saint wasn't all bad. I mean, it had Tommy Flanagan, who, due to the scars on his face, is easily one of the most memorable That Guys in film history. I'd argue the Saint is what propelled him from being a Guy in Braveheart to That Guy who's been in The Saint, Face/Off, The Game, Gladiator, Alien Vs. Predator, all the way up to Sons of Anarchy and Westworld. So, the Saint wasn't totally without merit.
As far as the article, I mean... it's at least an answer to what happened to Val Kilmer. I'm sorry to hear that cancer essentially took his voice away. I'm not exactly shocked, though, to find out that yet another famous and wealthy(?) figure has wild views that don't, in any way, hold up to even the gentlest questioning. The article points out that Twain was incredibly critical of Christian Science, which, I'm sorry to anyone who might be offended by this, is a bunch of nonsense that I'll never forgive for murdering Jim Henson. Kilmer just sort of handwaves around that with some sort of playground level nonsense (that mean kid is only mean to you because he likes you) that, lacking the sort of fame he has, would result in people just ignoring him.
Instead, he's promoting his views with some weird educational initiative? Gah. I guess this is where I say I would've been happier with some image of Val Kilmer having disappeared off into some weird land of adventure, which would be just as valid as his ideas about Twain and Christian Science, but less likely to promote the idea of not seeking medical attention when necessary.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:38 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
As far as the article, I mean... it's at least an answer to what happened to Val Kilmer. I'm sorry to hear that cancer essentially took his voice away. I'm not exactly shocked, though, to find out that yet another famous and wealthy(?) figure has wild views that don't, in any way, hold up to even the gentlest questioning. The article points out that Twain was incredibly critical of Christian Science, which, I'm sorry to anyone who might be offended by this, is a bunch of nonsense that I'll never forgive for murdering Jim Henson. Kilmer just sort of handwaves around that with some sort of playground level nonsense (that mean kid is only mean to you because he likes you) that, lacking the sort of fame he has, would result in people just ignoring him.
Instead, he's promoting his views with some weird educational initiative? Gah. I guess this is where I say I would've been happier with some image of Val Kilmer having disappeared off into some weird land of adventure, which would be just as valid as his ideas about Twain and Christian Science, but less likely to promote the idea of not seeking medical attention when necessary.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:38 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Another huge fan of Kilmer’s The Saint here. And I say that as someone who also loved both TV series, the radio series, and the novels. It was a different kind of thing, but also good. And the closet door of my girl hood bedroom boasted a huge poster of Madmartigan from Willow. He was like Han Solo in armor.
This was a much more intense read than I expected.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:01 PM on May 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
This was a much more intense read than I expected.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:01 PM on May 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Definitely Real Genius. By lucky coincidence the summer after it came out I went to a months long summer camp at 'Pacific Tech'. We pulled hijinks that would cause lawsuits nowadays. So that will always be my favorite movie of his because 16 year old me got the chance to pull shenanigans with a bunch of other nerd kids.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:04 PM on May 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by zengargoyle at 8:04 PM on May 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: the chance to pull shenanigans with a bunch of other nerd kids
posted by hippybear at 8:07 PM on May 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:07 PM on May 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
TIL Real Genius came after Top Secret in Val Kilmer's oeuvre, and Top Gun immediately after Real Genius. My experience of the 80s was apparently really out of joint.
posted by mollweide at 8:14 PM on May 11, 2020
posted by mollweide at 8:14 PM on May 11, 2020
The time-shifting landscape of theater releases compared with when it (finally) appeared at the Blockbuster to be gotten for that one party... that can really fuck with you back then.
posted by hippybear at 8:19 PM on May 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:19 PM on May 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
I don't get the dismissal of religion via medical science. We've had threads where doctors speak of not getting cancer, or other costly treatments because they more or less know that the treatment itself wrecks the body; and only extends the life for a few months in many instances. In Val's case; eh; maybe he got a little over-beamed with radiation; and it literally microwaved his throat.
Val uses religion for the same purpose of medicine; and he gets lessened for it. He likes to speak of his brother and mother as if they are still around; and conversing with him. This is bad because?
Seems more or less coherent in every other way; I mean; he could be off on a capital letter tangent about politics; or this, or that. Instead; he's doing his own thing with his own life. BFD, good for him.
Amazon prime has The Saint with Moore on it now; nice viewing. Lots of smoking. Sad post segue to an article about throat cancer I suppose; but definitely vintage Britannia.
posted by Afghan Stan at 8:56 PM on May 11, 2020
Val uses religion for the same purpose of medicine; and he gets lessened for it. He likes to speak of his brother and mother as if they are still around; and conversing with him. This is bad because?
Seems more or less coherent in every other way; I mean; he could be off on a capital letter tangent about politics; or this, or that. Instead; he's doing his own thing with his own life. BFD, good for him.
Amazon prime has The Saint with Moore on it now; nice viewing. Lots of smoking. Sad post segue to an article about throat cancer I suppose; but definitely vintage Britannia.
posted by Afghan Stan at 8:56 PM on May 11, 2020
Probably didn't literally microwave his throat because they don't use microwave-frequency radiation for cancer treatment, but yeah, it's often noted that curing cancer does its own damage in various ways.
Also, the article seems to say that he didn't refuse treatment because of his religion. He did seek treatment once it got dire, but isn't that just "being a guy"? I personally put off medical treatment because I assume it will get better.
As I get older, I'm becoming less inclined to that, but most guys I know and talk to about health issues are usually "Yeah, and then it got bad enough that I finally went to the doctor...."
posted by hippybear at 9:08 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, the article seems to say that he didn't refuse treatment because of his religion. He did seek treatment once it got dire, but isn't that just "being a guy"? I personally put off medical treatment because I assume it will get better.
As I get older, I'm becoming less inclined to that, but most guys I know and talk to about health issues are usually "Yeah, and then it got bad enough that I finally went to the doctor...."
posted by hippybear at 9:08 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
He should have won a best supporting actor Oscar for his portrayal of Doc Holiday. That's all I got.
posted by Beholder at 9:09 PM on May 11, 2020 [16 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 9:09 PM on May 11, 2020 [16 favorites]
Wyatt Earp is a more artful movie, but Tombstone is a hell of a lot more fun.
posted by hippybear at 9:11 PM on May 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:11 PM on May 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Not a lot of CGI in either film; the older I get the more I respect anybody that can move like that; much less simulate shooting, and wearing some heavy-ass cloak/cape/trenchcoat whatever outfit the whole time.
The Saint appears to be a freebie on the life sucking Amazon Prime; there goes another two hours of social isolation. MST 2020; COVID edition continues.
posted by Afghan Stan at 9:26 PM on May 11, 2020
The Saint appears to be a freebie on the life sucking Amazon Prime; there goes another two hours of social isolation. MST 2020; COVID edition continues.
posted by Afghan Stan at 9:26 PM on May 11, 2020
As I get older, I'm becoming less inclined to that
In fact in a weird counter example, I got a sinus infection last weekend that was totally disgusting and I called on Monday and got a Tuesday phone appointment but then my phone died literally that day and when I called later back at the warehouse I was told I have an in-person appointment on Monday (today) which was like a forever of living with ick and yuck and smells and then on Sunday the infection went away (like all macho men know it will if you just ignore it) but I kept my appointment today like an adult and it was pointless but a good check in.
posted by hippybear at 10:00 PM on May 11, 2020
In fact in a weird counter example, I got a sinus infection last weekend that was totally disgusting and I called on Monday and got a Tuesday phone appointment but then my phone died literally that day and when I called later back at the warehouse I was told I have an in-person appointment on Monday (today) which was like a forever of living with ick and yuck and smells and then on Sunday the infection went away (like all macho men know it will if you just ignore it) but I kept my appointment today like an adult and it was pointless but a good check in.
posted by hippybear at 10:00 PM on May 11, 2020
This was interesting, but I am not a big fan of this shtick where journalists write their gushing fandom into the article?
posted by desuetude at 10:37 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by desuetude at 10:37 PM on May 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Tom Cruise was always trying to charm you, Kilmer was the guy who was actually cool because he didn't care what you thought.
posted by benzenedream at 11:58 PM on May 11, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 11:58 PM on May 11, 2020 [6 favorites]
Also, I'm going to just straight up plug the documentary: Lost Soul: The Doomed Journey of Richard Stanley's Island of Dr. Moreau. It's a bonkers ass film, and an even zanier documentary that has a lot of fun insight into Brando and Kilmer.
Island of Dr. Moreau also rates a chapter in the recommended book The Greatest Sci-Fi Movies Never Made (obviously the film was made, but not the version Stanley had in mind). Let's just say, according to this account, Val seemed to do more damage to the film than Brando did (not that Brando exactly helped).
posted by gtrwolf at 12:00 AM on May 12, 2020
Island of Dr. Moreau also rates a chapter in the recommended book The Greatest Sci-Fi Movies Never Made (obviously the film was made, but not the version Stanley had in mind). Let's just say, according to this account, Val seemed to do more damage to the film than Brando did (not that Brando exactly helped).
posted by gtrwolf at 12:00 AM on May 12, 2020
His appearance in MacGruber as a very hammy villain was wonderful and one of the few things I remember about that film.
posted by gc at 7:31 AM on May 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by gc at 7:31 AM on May 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
His acting makes Willow the only Lord of the Rings movie worth watching twice. I'm sorry to hear he's having a rough go of it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on May 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on May 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
God bless Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. One of RDJ's best performances. (That audition!) Kilmer is the perfect foil.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:02 AM on May 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 10:02 AM on May 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
"At a certain point in the movie, he turned to me and said, "I'm actually a nuclear engineer (he later gave me his card, and sure enough, he was) and that's not how things work." Understatement of the year. "
There used to be a web site, and I can't for the life of me remember what it was called now, that would pit two fictional characters, or celebrities, or what have you, in some kind of competitive situation with defined victory conditions (I'm being vague because they could be remarkably wide-ranging), and the two guys would essentially debate at great, and extremely nerdy lengths who would win. And you could write in and suggest competitions they might examine.
I at one point suggested taking Elisabeth Shue (because of The Saint) and Keanu Reeves (because of a movie called Chain Reaction), giving them each a very well-equipped lab, and seeing which one of them came up with cold fusion first. I think it would have been epic.
posted by Naberius at 5:24 PM on May 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
There used to be a web site, and I can't for the life of me remember what it was called now, that would pit two fictional characters, or celebrities, or what have you, in some kind of competitive situation with defined victory conditions (I'm being vague because they could be remarkably wide-ranging), and the two guys would essentially debate at great, and extremely nerdy lengths who would win. And you could write in and suggest competitions they might examine.
I at one point suggested taking Elisabeth Shue (because of The Saint) and Keanu Reeves (because of a movie called Chain Reaction), giving them each a very well-equipped lab, and seeing which one of them came up with cold fusion first. I think it would have been epic.
posted by Naberius at 5:24 PM on May 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
WTF Happened to VAL KILMER? - a neat summary of Kilmer's career
posted by Lanark at 1:43 PM on May 13, 2020
posted by Lanark at 1:43 PM on May 13, 2020
I've always liked Kilmer (at least, pre-2000, then he kind of dropped off my radar) - and now I think get why. Especially in contrast to Tom Cruise, Kilmer doesn't seem to want to be the commercial mannequin and put up with a lot of nonsense associated with being a Hollywood star.
The comparison to Crispin Glover seems apt, in retrospect.
One thing that I had noticed is that I can't recall any scenes where his character's mirth ever actually reached his eyes or were completely believable - either the character is written not to actually be happy or that Kilmer couldn't get it through... always wondered if there was some clinical depression going on given his acting ability, the literally being able to control one's appearance.
Maybe another reason I empathized with him as an actor.
The exception may be Madmartigan - he's manic and rock bottomed and not actually enjoying himself outside of adrenaline rushes and bravado; but his (side's) chemistry with Sorsha/ Joanne Whalley...
But, absolutely, his best work was before Hollywood tried to cash in on him, and before he declined to be used as such. Him being labelled as "difficult" speaks of him burning out and looking for a way to get off the treadmill, tbh.
His very limited support role in 'True Romance' deserves as much awards consideration as his portrayal of Doc Holiday, imo.
Talk about being cursed by exceptional appearance. When I was younger, I was flabbergasted that he apparently "let himself go to fat" and Ididn't couldn't understand at the time.
Shame about him being under the influence of "Christian" "Science" - maybe he shouldn't neg Tom Cruise so much (although has Kilmer ever dug Cruise's Scientology publicly?).
Also, from my reading, it sounded like his family made him get modern medical treatment and just kind of let him believe the CS stuff so long as he acceded to medical treatment?
But, the tragedy of losing his voice and the range and purpose that he had put it to use.
posted by porpoise at 11:22 PM on May 14, 2020
The comparison to Crispin Glover seems apt, in retrospect.
One thing that I had noticed is that I can't recall any scenes where his character's mirth ever actually reached his eyes or were completely believable - either the character is written not to actually be happy or that Kilmer couldn't get it through... always wondered if there was some clinical depression going on given his acting ability, the literally being able to control one's appearance.
Maybe another reason I empathized with him as an actor.
The exception may be Madmartigan - he's manic and rock bottomed and not actually enjoying himself outside of adrenaline rushes and bravado; but his (side's) chemistry with Sorsha/ Joanne Whalley...
But, absolutely, his best work was before Hollywood tried to cash in on him, and before he declined to be used as such. Him being labelled as "difficult" speaks of him burning out and looking for a way to get off the treadmill, tbh.
His very limited support role in 'True Romance' deserves as much awards consideration as his portrayal of Doc Holiday, imo.
Talk about being cursed by exceptional appearance. When I was younger, I was flabbergasted that he apparently "let himself go to fat" and I
Shame about him being under the influence of "Christian" "Science" - maybe he shouldn't neg Tom Cruise so much (although has Kilmer ever dug Cruise's Scientology publicly?).
Also, from my reading, it sounded like his family made him get modern medical treatment and just kind of let him believe the CS stuff so long as he acceded to medical treatment?
But, the tragedy of losing his voice and the range and purpose that he had put it to use.
posted by porpoise at 11:22 PM on May 14, 2020
> A friend and I happened to pick up Top Secret! on a sleepover VHS rental binge, many years after it was in theaters. We thought the cow in boots was funny, and it turned out to be one of the linchpins of our friendship.
My family and I just watched Top Secret! last night and I was wondering what Kilmer was up to these days. Top Secret! is great and weird so long as you don't mind a lot of boob jokes. Kilmer's dancing is better than you'd expect.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:18 PM on May 16, 2020
My family and I just watched Top Secret! last night and I was wondering what Kilmer was up to these days. Top Secret! is great and weird so long as you don't mind a lot of boob jokes. Kilmer's dancing is better than you'd expect.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:18 PM on May 16, 2020
His Elvis impersonation isn't half-bad either!
posted by hippybear at 2:40 PM on May 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 2:40 PM on May 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have a cassette soundtrack album of Top Secret! that is one of my favorite possessions. I don't know if anyone else who has one.
posted by hippybear at 2:40 PM on May 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:40 PM on May 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
This was the poster! Man, that takes me back.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:01 AM on May 18, 2020
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:01 AM on May 18, 2020
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