Skip

Loose Lips Sink Starships
May 4, 2011 7:29 AM   Subscribe


 
He Can't Do It Alone!

This brings up an interesting question: How was Vader portrayed to the masses? Was he a defender of democracy, a wounded solider still fighting the good fight? Is there any indication is Star Wars universe?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:34 AM on May 4, 2011 [7 favorites]


Woooooo - I love the "Unite" storm trooper poster. Orginal artwork available for $250 from the artist's website . Gosh - it looks gorgeous.

Ack! Metafilter - stop showing me stuff that I want to buy!!
posted by helmutdog at 7:38 AM on May 4, 2011


That Scuba Trooper guy with the flippers is straight up goofy. Was that in the movies?
posted by dosterm at 7:39 AM on May 4, 2011


When the imperial posters look so much better than the rebel posters, is it any wonder that that little girl bowed down to Vader?
posted by katillathehun at 7:44 AM on May 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


I like how the Scuba Trooper, despite the ornate helmet which they could fit into, still has to have conventional hoses for the air outside of it.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:44 AM on May 4, 2011


May the Fourth be with you.
posted by jph at 7:44 AM on May 4, 2011 [6 favorites]


The Rebel ones don't work as well as the Empire ones do, for reasons which are obvious.
posted by mightygodking at 7:51 AM on May 4, 2011


Brandon Blatcher: "How was Vader portrayed to the masses? Was he a defender of democracy, a wounded solider still fighting the good fight? Is there any indication is Star Wars universe?"

Not an exact answer to your Q, but a discussion on what do Storm Troopers think of Vader?
posted by FJT at 7:57 AM on May 4, 2011 [7 favorites]


I love Leia the Riveter.

As an in-universe question, I do wonder whether they'd even recruit given that they've now retconned stormtroopers into being clones. Or maybe they stopped doing that in the interim between the prequels and the original series?
posted by immlass at 7:57 AM on May 4, 2011


The Rebel ones don't work as well as the Empire ones do, for reasons which are obvious.

If you mean because the Empire is the fascist side, remember that A New Hope ends with a recreation of Triumph of the Will.
posted by Trurl at 8:10 AM on May 4, 2011 [5 favorites]


I would love to see an Empire version of this with Chewbacca.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:10 AM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


jph, that was beautiful, thank you.
posted by Elmore at 8:11 AM on May 4, 2011


This brings up an interesting question: How was Vader portrayed to the masses?

He wasn't. Likewise, the most powerful people in our political systems are powerful in part because their names never appear in the papers.

On paper, Vader is listed as a consultant.
posted by mhoye at 8:12 AM on May 4, 2011 [16 favorites]


If the Empire is as top-down as it seems in the movies, the people probably don't even know about Vader, other than he's some sort of top general/nob. The Sith work best from the shadows and all that.
posted by bonehead at 8:12 AM on May 4, 2011


Interesting dilemma in the piece FJT links:

Imagine you worked at the Pentagon as a personal attache to Colin Powell or McChrystal, and you hear over the PA “Alert! Alert! There is a Nazi Ninja Master loose in the Pentagon! Your orders are ‘Shoot to kill!” You get up and walk around the corner, and there’s this 80 year old man with a Hitler moustache in a black outfit, and he and Donald Rumsfeld are circling each other ominously. Both of them have katanas drawn.

Do you shoot?


I'd shoot Rumsfeld twice.
posted by Naberius at 8:13 AM on May 4, 2011 [18 favorites]


Anytime I see Mark Hamill, I throw up in my mouth a little.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 8:14 AM on May 4, 2011


I wonder if they make different posters for Bothans, Wookies, and Rodians.
posted by Brocktoon at 8:15 AM on May 4, 2011


The Rebel ones don't work as well as the Empire ones do, for reasons which are obvious.

For the same reasons that Al Qaeda does not post recruitment posters in Detroit. Violent underground movements need to stay underground, both to protect their recruiters and to reduce the number of informers joining up.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:16 AM on May 4, 2011


Anytime I see Mark Hamill, I throw up in my mouth a little.

Why? Did I miss something?
posted by MrFTBN at 8:18 AM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


He wasn't. Likewise, the most powerful people in our political systems are powerful in part because their names never appear in the papers.

Except both Luke (when Ben was lying to him on tattooine) and Lando both seemed familiar with him (i.e. No "darth who?")
posted by schwa at 8:18 AM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Cruise the Galaxy" is by Steve Thomas. He has a couple others here.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:20 AM on May 4, 2011


The "Scuba trooper" is a Tie Pilot.
posted by oddman at 8:20 AM on May 4, 2011


For some reason, those links are seriously borked. Here and here.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:21 AM on May 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


That Scuba Trooper guy with the flippers is straight up goofy. Was that in the movies?

No but it was in West End Games official Star Wars rpg. We also saw aquatic tie fighters and AT-ATs too. Probably in the comics as well.
posted by schwa at 8:21 AM on May 4, 2011


FTJ's link is fantastic:

It’s kind of lost in the later films, but in the very first Star Wars movie, the Empire’s conventional military don’t just hate and fear Vader, they think he’s fucking crazy. They look the other way and kind of grumble like he’s a Birther at the American Heritage Institute. A necessary ally, but an unstable, embarrassing one who talks a lot of nonsense when other people are trying to get work done.

Grand Moff Tarkin: We have the Democrats right where we want them. Fear will keep them in line. Fear of deficits, fear of national bankruptcy, fear of Mexicans, and fear of this battle station!

Vader: wheeze 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. wheeze

posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:24 AM on May 4, 2011 [5 favorites]


Hmm, these might be more compelling. For some people. Maybe posted previously, couldn't find.

I kinda like this girl stormtrooper. Except the shoes.
posted by Glinn at 8:27 AM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


I was curious about what Vader was doing in between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope and this this interesting bit on Wikipedia:
Eric Bui, a psychiatrist at University of Toulouse Hospital, argued at the 2007 American Psychiatric Association convention that Anakin meets six of the nine diagnostic criteria for borderline personality disorder (BPD), one more than necessary for a diagnosis. He and a colleague, Rachel Rodgers, published their findings in a 2010 letter to the editor of the journal Psychiatry Research. Bui says he found Anakin Skywalker a useful example to explain BPD to medical students.[5] In particular, Bui points to Anakin's abandonment issues and uncertainty over his identity. Anakin's mass murders of the Tusken Raiders in Attack of the Clones and the young Jedi in Revenge of the Sith count as two dissociative episodes, fulfilling another criterion. Bui hoped his paper would help raise awareness of the disorder, especially among teens.[5]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:40 AM on May 4, 2011 [4 favorites]


Of course the rebels aren't going to have slick posters like that.

I'd like to see a screenshot of an Imperial news feed that is broadcasting street reaction of 'rebel scum' after the death star was blown up.

They would undoubtedly have hastily-made homemade signs with images pulled off the internet.
posted by mazola at 8:43 AM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


oddman, the scuba trooper being referred to is in the poster here - where the uniform is distinctly different from a TIE pilot.
posted by never used baby shoes at 8:45 AM on May 4, 2011


Of course the rebels aren't going to have slick posters like that.

Right, their preferred medium is probably going to be puppets.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:53 AM on May 4, 2011


Leia the Riveter was done by Thomas G Sullivan. It can be purchased as a poster here.

And yes, mine is on the way.
posted by plinth at 8:54 AM on May 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


Right, their preferred medium is probably going to be puppets.

And some guy dressed up in a giant paper-mache Alderaan costume, top heavy and half-blind, bumbling down the street in tow of a couple of cute rebel girls who somehow talked him into this.
posted by cortex at 9:00 AM on May 4, 2011 [4 favorites]


This brings up an interesting question: How was Vader portrayed to the masses?

I don't have a comprehensive answer to this, but I've been rereading Star Wars novels recently and the short answer is that the EU doesn't have a consistent answer. Two examples that come to mind:
  • In one of Crispin's Han Solo novels, Solo is meeting with an Imperial officer who has been paid off to lose a battle when Vader shows up and kills him. Solo's hiding in the next room and hears is happen but has no idea who this wheezing enforcer is.
  • In contrast, in The Life and Legend of Obi-wan Kenobi, there's a scene set during the time when OB1 is in hiding on Tatooine. He's in town buying supplies when he sees a Holonet news story announcing that Darth Vader had tracked down another group of Jedi. He's stunned to realize that Vader is still alive; he'd thought he'd left him for dead on Mustafar. Having OB1 discover that Vader's still alive during his time on Tatooine solves two problems: the fact that he's not surprised to enounter Vader alive (and armored) in ANH and the fact that he chose to hide Luke with his family on Tatooine (which is a spectacularly poor idea if you know Vader is still around).
posted by The Tensor at 9:06 AM on May 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


I was trying to think of a Star Wars version of "No Blood For Oil" and instead entered into a Star Wars existential crisis.

What were the Rebels initially fighting for, anyways? Before Alderaan, what did the Empire do that was so bad? I don't remember hearing about people starving. They seemed to have a light touch when it came to policing Tatooine, didn't wipe out the natives of Endor, and let small business men thrive in their cloud cities. Hell, Luke even wanted to join up at the Imperial Academy.

So yeah, the guys at the top were jerks, but so were the leaders of many great societies.

So what was the pitch to join up with the Rebels before the Empire started blowing up planets? And even afterwards, what would it be? Outside of slave bikinis, how could the Rebels convince folks light years away to join up and face certain death just because some people you've never met before got blowed up?

Metafilter, you're my only hope.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:11 AM on May 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


What were the Rebels initially fighting for, anyways? Before Alderaan, what did the Empire do that was so bad?

I have no idea, but I feel certain trade routes were involved.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:32 AM on May 4, 2011 [9 favorites]


I always thought the Empire used Vader as ... well, you know that Kissinger madman theory? Where, e.g., nuclear deterrence only works if the other parties think that you're so crazy you might actually engage in a life-annihilating nuclear war? I think Vader acts the way he does because his role works best when he's seen as not just incredibly (and mysteriously) powerful, but also completely unpredictable.

If you think a dude will just straight up mind-choke you to death during a board meeting, that keeps you in line. Of course we've already talked about the Alderaan thing here recently, but in a way I think getting into his own personal TIE fighter and chasing down the rebels at the first Death Star is probably an extension of the same thing too. Whether or not he actually was crazy is debatable, in a kind of Hamlet-ish way, but he definitely needed to give the impression of not just power but insanity in order to be most effective. I think he probably came off like a murderous Don Quixote with a particularly sharp, long lance in his hand.
posted by penduluum at 9:36 AM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


So what was the pitch to join up with the Rebels before the Empire started blowing up planets?

The Trade Federation crashed the economy and got the Empire to bail them out.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:41 AM on May 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


What were the Rebels initially fighting for, anyways? Before Alderaan, what did the Empire do that was so bad?

Before Alderaan, the Empire had set itself up as the strongest military dictatorship and during New Hope, disolved the Imperial Senate. The people had no voice in how they were being governed. Sure, on backwater worlds like Tatooine, Bespin and the middle of nowhere moon of Endor they were pretty hands off, but who cares about a dozen moisture farmers and some drunken scoundrels? Much less the teddy bears in the woods who aren't bothering the shield generator?
posted by khaibit at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


What were the Rebels initially fighting for, anyways? Before Alderaan, what did the Empire do that was so bad?

This feeds into a line of thought that started for me over in the last thread about the Death Star.

The driving force behind everything we are seeing in the films is a secret, shadowy elite that is using the specter of war as a means of driving their profits and increasing their power. Even Palpatine is being influenced and moved by them. They created the Empire out of playing two sides against each other (Trade Federation/Separatists), but then needed a second side in order to continue the game. Hence, the Rebels are started with some loose ideas around restoring democracy (while being lead by a Princess).

By the end of Jedi, they have created a wonderful system that will justify the continued existence of a massive Military-Industrial Complex for centuries. The new Republic will be hunting down remnants of the Empire, the Empire will be trying to restore itself, and the see saw will continue - with an elite group profiting from both sides all the time.

If I were still into role playing, I can totally see doing a Star Wars RPG set post-ROTJ that would get into this more...
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:00 AM on May 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


The rebels were fighting for restoration of nobility status. They were a group of loyalists led by a Princess, and aided by a Jedi, a warrior class that notably used genetic selection to determine eligibility for training.

By contrast, the Empire was a meritocracy that had no room for bloated aristocracy or ineffectual Senates. Those performing well could expect rapid promotion, rather than rank based on seniority or nepotism.
posted by explosion at 10:03 AM on May 4, 2011 [7 favorites]


Those performing well could expect rapid promotion, rather than rank based on seniority or nepotism.

Well, as long as they were human.
posted by penduluum at 10:06 AM on May 4, 2011 [5 favorites]


And some guy dressed up in a giant paper-mache Alderaan costume, top heavy and half-blind, bumbling down the street in tow of a couple of cute rebel girls who somehow talked him into this.

Hey, Hey, Palpatine
Your star destroyers are obscene!
Killing Wookiees is no joke
We don't want to be force-choked!

Hey, hey, Emper-*blaster fire*
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:09 AM on May 4, 2011 [7 favorites]


Saw this linked on a blog the other day.. made me smile. No Shields, All Guts
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:13 AM on May 4, 2011


I was trying to think of a Star Wars version of "No Blood For Oil" and instead entered into a Star Wars existential crisis.

NO BLOOD OR OTHER VITAL FLUIDS AS SPECIES-APPROPRIATE FOR MIDICHLORIANS!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:17 AM on May 4, 2011


"He Can't Do It Alone!" -- totally want that.
posted by of strange foe at 10:40 AM on May 4, 2011


So what was the pitch to join up with the Rebels before the Empire started blowing up planets?

Metafilter, you're my only hope.


No taxation without representation.

Cue theme of A New Hope.
posted by ersatz at 10:44 AM on May 4, 2011


NO LIFE FLUIDS FOR UNOBTAINIUM*

*or whatever the empire uses for power, I have no clue
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:48 AM on May 4, 2011


So what was the pitch to join up with the Rebels before the Empire started blowing up planets?

The Empire banned Life Day.

Whooooo's got horrible flashbacks now! I do! I do!
posted by rusty at 10:52 AM on May 4, 2011


previously, for those who hadn't see the askme; some questions about the motivations of the Rebels and the Empire are answered. Link to a great article by David Brin as well.
posted by dubold at 11:01 AM on May 4, 2011


I like to imagine the Star Wars trilogy to be a lot of hoo-ha that obscures the real story, the story of how Firmus Piett, a Chauncey Gardiner-ish character, comes to rule the universe, caught up in events beyond his making and invisibly rising through the ranks of the Imperial hierarchy.

I am hoping Lucas releases a modified RoTJ that eliminates his demise aboard the Executor at the end of the movie, and instead adds his installation as New Emperor, filling the power vacuum left behind after the destruction of senior Imperial leadership.

I also like to imagine Admiral Ozzel was a rebel sympathizer, using his position to assist their cause from the inside.

I'd also like to imagine I didn't just say all of this out loud.

posted by mazola at 11:07 AM on May 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


I like to imagine the Star Wars trilogy to be a lot of hoo-ha that obscures the real story, the story of how Firmus Piett, a Chauncey Gardiner-ish character, comes to rule the universe, caught up in events beyond his making and invisibly rising through the ranks of the Imperial hierarchy.

I have long treasured an old txt file I have retelling the Star Wars Trilogy such that it's really the story of how Wedge was the force behind the scenes making everything happen up to and including shooting Greedo from his X-Wing in orbit around Tatooine and racking up thousands of TIE Fighter kills.

Of course, we all know that he blew up the Second Death Star singlehandedly and was already leaving by the time Lando got there to throw a match on the bonfire. That's just canon.
posted by Copronymus at 11:29 AM on May 4, 2011


As an in-universe question, I do wonder whether they'd even recruit given that they've now retconned stormtroopers into being clones. Or maybe they stopped doing that in the interim between the prequels and the original series?

I don't know if this is supported by extended universe stuff, but I figured that the army *started as clones* but as the years go on they slowly get replaced by regular humans or aliens. Hence the crack clone troopers morphing into can't hit crap storm troopers by episode 4.
posted by utsutsu at 11:56 AM on May 4, 2011


BESPIN, KESSEL, YAVIN 4
WE DON'T WANT GALACTIC WAR!
OSSUS, NABOO, KASHYYYK
GRAND MOFF TARKIN, SUCK MY DI-*force lightning*
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:07 PM on May 4, 2011 [12 favorites]


The rebels were fighting for restoration of nobility status. They were a group of loyalists led by a Princess

So they're the Nationalists in the Spanish Civil War?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:00 PM on May 4, 2011


Anytime I see Mark Hamill, I throw up in my mouth a little.

Where else do people throw up, anyway? You can't throw up in your ass.
posted by Ideefixe at 4:41 PM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hence the crack clone troopers morphing into can't hit crap storm troopers by episode 4.

Actually, genetic drift would be a perfect explanation for why the latter-day storm troopers are so bad at storm trooping.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:52 PM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hence the crack clone troopers morphing into can't hit crap storm troopers by episode

...also being different heights.
posted by pompomtom at 5:42 PM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


They were a group of loyalists led by a Princess, and aided by a Jedi, a warrior class that notably used genetic selection to determine eligibility for training.

As Volker Bach once wrote, "Aw, c'mon. It's just a self-perpetuating, strictly disciplined, fanatically religious paramilitary body with a secret agenda, independent funding from unknown sources, access to high technology, veto rights in parliament and carte blanche to run its own foreign policy. What's your problem?"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:20 AM on May 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Where else do people throw up, anyway? You can't throw up in your ass."

If that's a serious question: the idea is a little bit of vomit that comes up into the back of ones mouth, to soon be reswallowed, as opposed to full-on vomiting, where the vomit leaves the mouth into airsickness bags, toilets, or the Japanese Prime Minister's lap.
posted by Bugbread at 3:18 PM on May 5, 2011




« Older Question? RTFAQ (Read the F*cking Al Qaeda)!   |   Ultra Local Geography Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments



Post