"Don't stand on a corner squeegeeing," [Giuliani] said. "Go to a restaurant. Get a job at a restaurant."
September 26, 2011 5:18 PM Subscribe
Manhattan's enterprising, unsolicited window cleaners have often been used as squeegee straw men by aspiring (and entrenched) politicians. Mayoral candidate Rudolph Giuliani railed against the squeegee men in his 1993 campaign, but not without empathetically offering them a viable career alternative.
Once a fixture of NYC life, and even the milieu of a major motion picture [SLRottenTomatoes], squeegeesmithy was since relegated to uptown. But, as America's economic windshield has clouded, the squeegee men have returned in force.
A letter to the NYT Editor written by The Saint of Fort Washington screenwriter
Meanwhile, in New Zealand
Once a fixture of NYC life, and even the milieu of a major motion picture [SLRottenTomatoes], squeegeesmithy was since relegated to uptown. But, as America's economic windshield has clouded, the squeegee men have returned in force.
A letter to the NYT Editor written by The Saint of Fort Washington screenwriter
Meanwhile, in New Zealand
A viable career alternative? Would that include the opposite side of the glass?
posted by Mblue at 5:38 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by Mblue at 5:38 PM on September 26, 2011
Of all the pre-Guiliani nyc fixtures to return, this was not really on the top of my list.
I guess it's better than bag-in-a-bag, though.
posted by elizardbits at 5:47 PM on September 26, 2011
I guess it's better than bag-in-a-bag, though.
posted by elizardbits at 5:47 PM on September 26, 2011
Prey tell, what is bag-in-a-bag? A cursory search does not enlighten.
posted by andorphin at 5:50 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by andorphin at 5:50 PM on September 26, 2011
Maybe we can get those dealers from the meadow to come back. I have no idea where to get fake acid anymore.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:51 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Ad hominem at 5:51 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
The only time I saw a NYC squeegee man was on a visit to family in the mid 1980's. By the time I moved to the area in 2000, they were all gone (or at least I never ran into them). So I was rather surprised to see them in Baltimore when I moved here in 2008. I guess it's the economy and different police strategies.
More disturbing, at the one corner downtown where I reliably see the squeegee men, they're more like squeegee boys. Imagine a pack of kids 9-14 years old, running out into traffic stopped at the light, while their chaperone sits in the median. I love this city, but a modern day Fagin is a disturbing sight.
posted by postel's law at 5:56 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
More disturbing, at the one corner downtown where I reliably see the squeegee men, they're more like squeegee boys. Imagine a pack of kids 9-14 years old, running out into traffic stopped at the light, while their chaperone sits in the median. I love this city, but a modern day Fagin is a disturbing sight.
posted by postel's law at 5:56 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
bag in a bag is/was a dime bag of heroin that comes in a tiny waxed paper bag (emblazoned with the dealer's mark of choice or heroin "brand names") which is then sealed inside one of those tiny plastic bags.
it can also refer to the primary location at which to purchase such things, which, in the early to mid 90s, was east 7th street between b and c.
posted by elizardbits at 5:57 PM on September 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
it can also refer to the primary location at which to purchase such things, which, in the early to mid 90s, was east 7th street between b and c.
posted by elizardbits at 5:57 PM on September 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
I wonder if I can get a job as an NYC drug historian.
posted by elizardbits at 5:57 PM on September 26, 2011 [22 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 5:57 PM on September 26, 2011 [22 favorites]
it has also just occurred to me that now the sole definition of this SCANDALOUS DRUG TERM anywhere on the internets is my definition here.
sigh.
posted by elizardbits at 6:00 PM on September 26, 2011 [7 favorites]
sigh.
posted by elizardbits at 6:00 PM on September 26, 2011 [7 favorites]
They say Guiliani got rid of squeegee men, but that may have been just a whitewash.
posted by twoleftfeet at 6:01 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by twoleftfeet at 6:01 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
The stop light squeegee never caught on over here. I think it's pretty fucked up. I got windscreen wipers, and if they don't cut the mustard (that is all over my windshield, from a fun party) then I pull in to a servo and squeegee it myself. Would you stand at an intersection and let somebody run up and floss your teeth? Jesus. There was a Chaser skit where a guy went around a park, dressed as a waiter and carrying a big pepper grinder. Anybody who was eating anything, he went up to them and asked "Fresh ground pepper with that, sir/madam?" That was funny only because it wasn't real. But squeegee guys are real and I think it's crazy and really uncomfortable for everybody. Where'd that bucket come from? Did you catch the train with that bucket, with the water already in it, and the detergent? Or did you fill it from a drinking fountain and put in hand soap from a public bathroom? That can't be good for the rubber seals. What else has been squeegee'd with that squeegee? Oh god.
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:01 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:01 PM on September 26, 2011
The bindles also had cool logos and markings, ike D.O.A and Bodybag. I was like , this shit will kill you, better try some.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:01 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Ad hominem at 6:01 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
What the hell you can get a bag of heroin for a dime in New York?
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:01 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:01 PM on September 26, 2011
err, it was like. I never tried it. I want to make that clear. They did have cool logos though.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:03 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by Ad hominem at 6:03 PM on September 26, 2011
More disturbing, at the one corner downtown where I reliably see the squeegee men, they're more like squeegee boys. Imagine a pack of kids 9-14 years old, running out into traffic stopped at the light, while their chaperone sits in the median.
Sad to hear they're up above ground, too. I see groups like that on the subway all the time, sometimes with even younger children- the kids are selling candy and the parents follow behind.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:05 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sad to hear they're up above ground, too. I see groups like that on the subway all the time, sometimes with even younger children- the kids are selling candy and the parents follow behind.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:05 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Having spent way too much time in Holland Tunnel traffic, I can tell you that this is not a service.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:06 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by R. Mutt at 6:06 PM on September 26, 2011
I wonder if I can get a job as an NYC drug historian.
I WOULD READ THAT BOOK A LOT.
posted by The Whelk at 6:06 PM on September 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
I WOULD READ THAT BOOK A LOT.
posted by The Whelk at 6:06 PM on September 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
The problem with the older glassine bags is that they aren't waterproof. In the summer sweat would make the bags damp and clump the contents. If you were going to sniff the drug, you were out of luck. It was less of a problem for intravenous use, as the drug would be mixed with water. Putting the glassine envelope into a plastic ziplock allowed the trademark to be stamped on the paper, and keep the contents dry.
posted by Splunge at 6:06 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by Splunge at 6:06 PM on September 26, 2011
Those bags sound collectible. Like an idea I had, which is colourful, collectible sharps handed out to junkies. You know, for kids. So when the junkie is done shooting up they toss the needle on the ground in the park or whatever, or at the beach, and they wander off to throw up, a kid can be walking along and be all "Hey, a green one!" and grab at it and there, you've solved the discarded needle problem. It would be like an easter egg hunt, kids all over the landscape collecting sharps, and cleaning up a Big Problem. "I'll trade you!" "Awesome, this still has some left in it!" etc.
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:06 PM on September 26, 2011 [13 favorites]
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:06 PM on September 26, 2011 [13 favorites]
In Mexico City, when you stop at streetlight, somebody might come up to your car and blow fire. I always pay those guys, because, you know, they can blow fire. Makes the squeegee guys look pretty tame.
posted by twoleftfeet at 6:10 PM on September 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by twoleftfeet at 6:10 PM on September 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
The little stamped bags aren't totally gone, though the double bagging may be. A few months ago I was out on a hike and came across an isolated parking area and found a blizzard of little bags with varying designs scattered over a space that was about 5'x2'. Some junkie must have parked there over a weekend and really gone at it.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:12 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:12 PM on September 26, 2011
When asked if he thought people could be intimidated into paying, Taranchokov said it was possible but he always tried to ask before they started cleaning.
At the Holland Tunnel, I have noticed that the most likely car to be approached is one with a single woman in it.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:15 PM on September 26, 2011
At the Holland Tunnel, I have noticed that the most likely car to be approached is one with a single woman in it.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:15 PM on September 26, 2011
So, anyone have any good drugs lately?
posted by Ad hominem at 6:28 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by Ad hominem at 6:28 PM on September 26, 2011
No, but I pushed them on a bunch of people and made a tidy profit.
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:31 PM on September 26, 2011
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:31 PM on September 26, 2011
for the last time tumid drugs are not pokemon
posted by The Whelk at 6:32 PM on September 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 6:32 PM on September 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
The bindles also had cool logos and markings, ike D.O.A and Bodybag.
When I would visit a friend on Rivington late at night, these guys would come up and whisper, "Psst. Murder? You need some Murder?" It took me a while to realize what they were offering.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:39 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
When I would visit a friend on Rivington late at night, these guys would come up and whisper, "Psst. Murder? You need some Murder?" It took me a while to realize what they were offering.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:39 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
The stop light squeegee never caught on over here
Brisbane? Yes, i have just returned and noticed they are lacking.
Melbourne - corner of Victoria and Hoddle is a favourite haunt - and handy to street dealers too. I wonder if there is a link.
posted by the noob at 7:04 PM on September 26, 2011
Brisbane? Yes, i have just returned and noticed they are lacking.
Melbourne - corner of Victoria and Hoddle is a favourite haunt - and handy to street dealers too. I wonder if there is a link.
posted by the noob at 7:04 PM on September 26, 2011
for the last time tumid drugs are not pokemon
You're wrong, because I had a pound of Cocaine and I put it up against a lot of little vials of crack and the Cocaine totally levelled-up and told me its name was now Cocaptain. It told me again and again, even when it wasn't doing anything, just sitting there. And, well, it had sprouted rolled-up fifties all of a sudden, what else was I to do?
Ave atque vale, Cocaptain.
posted by tumid dahlia at 7:06 PM on September 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
You're wrong, because I had a pound of Cocaine and I put it up against a lot of little vials of crack and the Cocaine totally levelled-up and told me its name was now Cocaptain. It told me again and again, even when it wasn't doing anything, just sitting there. And, well, it had sprouted rolled-up fifties all of a sudden, what else was I to do?
Ave atque vale, Cocaptain.
posted by tumid dahlia at 7:06 PM on September 26, 2011 [8 favorites]
Brisbane? Yes, i have just returned and noticed they are lacking.
They are all now selling The Big Issue in the CBD.
posted by tumid dahlia at 7:10 PM on September 26, 2011
They are all now selling The Big Issue in the CBD.
posted by tumid dahlia at 7:10 PM on September 26, 2011
>I'm surprised there haven't been any shootings.
There have been shootings.
posted by obscurator at 7:22 PM on September 26, 2011
There have been shootings.
posted by obscurator at 7:22 PM on September 26, 2011
One of the joys of driving a beater is no car payments.
The other - is being able to roll down your window when the squeegee man approaches - and yell out to him "Look at what I'm driving. Does it look like I have any extra money?" Works like a charm - every time.
The weird thing is, they actually take a second to look over your vehicle. It's like your words are being appraised for their truth. In my case, they always agree and move on. (rusty, serial killer looking, cargo van)
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 7:24 PM on September 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
The other - is being able to roll down your window when the squeegee man approaches - and yell out to him "Look at what I'm driving. Does it look like I have any extra money?" Works like a charm - every time.
The weird thing is, they actually take a second to look over your vehicle. It's like your words are being appraised for their truth. In my case, they always agree and move on. (rusty, serial killer looking, cargo van)
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 7:24 PM on September 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
In Mexico City, when you stop at streetlight, somebody might come up to your car and blow fire .
Shiiiieeet, drinking that much lamp oil/kero day-in-day-out would be really bad for you. Like, so bad. Still I suppose if you're firebreathing on a street corner in Mexico City you probably have more immediate concerns, but damn.
posted by smoke at 7:26 PM on September 26, 2011
Shiiiieeet, drinking that much lamp oil/kero day-in-day-out would be really bad for you. Like, so bad. Still I suppose if you're firebreathing on a street corner in Mexico City you probably have more immediate concerns, but damn.
posted by smoke at 7:26 PM on September 26, 2011
One of the joys of driving a beater is no car payments.
The other - is being able to roll down your window when the squeegee man approaches - and yell out to him "Look at what I'm driving. Does it look like I have any extra money?" Works like a charm - every time.
Really? It never worked for me. I drove a 20+ year old beater when I lived in LA and at stoplights, I'd often get accosted by window washers. And squeegees? Your guys have squeegees? In LA, they'd rub your window with old newspapers. That's just going to scratch up the windows worse. I used to yell at the guys to get away and they'd just demand money for what they "already did." I'd tell them they just made it worse. I always wanted something like this.
posted by charlie don't surf at 7:30 PM on September 26, 2011
The other - is being able to roll down your window when the squeegee man approaches - and yell out to him "Look at what I'm driving. Does it look like I have any extra money?" Works like a charm - every time.
Really? It never worked for me. I drove a 20+ year old beater when I lived in LA and at stoplights, I'd often get accosted by window washers. And squeegees? Your guys have squeegees? In LA, they'd rub your window with old newspapers. That's just going to scratch up the windows worse. I used to yell at the guys to get away and they'd just demand money for what they "already did." I'd tell them they just made it worse. I always wanted something like this.
posted by charlie don't surf at 7:30 PM on September 26, 2011
And squeegees? Your guys have squeegees? In LA, they'd rub your window with old newspapers.
You guys have windows? In my town, they rub your contact lenses.
posted by twoleftfeet at 7:37 PM on September 26, 2011
You guys have windows? In my town, they rub your contact lenses.
posted by twoleftfeet at 7:37 PM on September 26, 2011
Back in the pre-Giuliani days, the trick was to turn on your wipers when you were at a light and you saw a squeegee man coming your way. They wouldn't come near you if your wipers were on.
I can't believe I actually remembered that
posted by deadmessenger at 7:41 PM on September 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
I can't believe I actually remembered that
posted by deadmessenger at 7:41 PM on September 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
New York was more fun when it was dangerous and broken, that's for sure.
posted by bardic at 8:44 PM on September 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by bardic at 8:44 PM on September 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
it has also just occurred to me that now the sole definition of this SCANDALOUS DRUG TERM anywhere on the internets is my definition here.
Hate to be the one to tell you this. Still not too easy to find though.
posted by !Jim at 9:31 PM on September 26, 2011
Hate to be the one to tell you this. Still not too easy to find though.
posted by !Jim at 9:31 PM on September 26, 2011
New York was more fun when it was dangerous and broken, that's for sure.
Eh, it's still broken. Try to get somewhere on the weekend. Sheesh.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:56 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Eh, it's still broken. Try to get somewhere on the weekend. Sheesh.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:56 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
I used to drive an old Ford Grenada with a broken windshield washer motor back in the 80's so those guys were pretty useful to me in the winter when I got off the FDR. I'd pull over and make sure they had something more than water (and less than urine) in their spray bottle and give them a buck to clean all of my windows.
posted by any major dude at 10:13 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by any major dude at 10:13 PM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Those kids in the "meanwhile, in New Zealand" were nice enough. They would hold up their bottle and squeegee to see if you actually wanted your windscreen done, and just move on if you didn't give them the nod.
The article consistently refers to them as "Squeegee Bandits", probably because of the fantastic documentary Squeegee Bandit, following a year in the life of an Auckland windscreen cleaner called Starfish. The editing and fancy effects are distracting, but his story is brilliantly told.
posted by WhackyparseThis at 1:24 AM on September 27, 2011
The article consistently refers to them as "Squeegee Bandits", probably because of the fantastic documentary Squeegee Bandit, following a year in the life of an Auckland windscreen cleaner called Starfish. The editing and fancy effects are distracting, but his story is brilliantly told.
posted by WhackyparseThis at 1:24 AM on September 27, 2011
Today I saw squeegee men in Toronto for the first time in about 10 years. Before, they were called "squeegee kids" and many of them were kids; these two were definitely men. I was waiting for the bus and I watched them operate: they definitely did not listen to the driver or passenger waving them away.
Part of me was thinking of how rude and intimidating it was; the other part of me was thinking of how it's a sign of growing poverty in the city, and what else are they supposed to do to make money?
posted by jb at 2:05 AM on September 27, 2011
Part of me was thinking of how rude and intimidating it was; the other part of me was thinking of how it's a sign of growing poverty in the city, and what else are they supposed to do to make money?
posted by jb at 2:05 AM on September 27, 2011
The little stamped bags aren't totally gone, though the double bagging may be. A few months ago I was out on a hike and came across an isolated parking area and found a blizzard of little bags with varying designs scattered over a space that was about 5'x2'. Some junkie must have parked there over a weekend and really gone at it.
When I was in high school in jersey they were used for heroin and pot. It was disturbing to see the latter in the bag of the former. I was a little surprised when I moved to Portland and pot was simply sold in zip lock bags.
posted by Betty_effn_White at 2:10 AM on September 27, 2011
When I was in high school in jersey they were used for heroin and pot. It was disturbing to see the latter in the bag of the former. I was a little surprised when I moved to Portland and pot was simply sold in zip lock bags.
posted by Betty_effn_White at 2:10 AM on September 27, 2011
it can also refer to the primary location at which to purchase such things, which, in the early to mid 90s, was east 7th street between b and c.
I got mugged in that spot back in '88.
Of course, I was an English tourist, buying coke. If I'd copped there regularly, I would have mugged me too.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:17 AM on September 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I got mugged in that spot back in '88.
Of course, I was an English tourist, buying coke. If I'd copped there regularly, I would have mugged me too.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:17 AM on September 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Squeegee gangs are all over London. And yeah, the secret is to turn your wipers on the minute you stop.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:18 AM on September 27, 2011
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:18 AM on September 27, 2011
jb: Have they really been gone from Toronto for that long? I lived downtown and commuted out to the burbs between 2001-2005, and they were still around in those days. Spadina near Front was always a popular spot for them, but they would always move on if I shook my head no. Or if they did it any way, I'd open my window, and say "I told you no, man, I don't have any money. Shouldn't have wasted your time". I'm surprised I never got my door kicked.
Scariest squeegee dudes I ever encountered were in Naples. GOD I hated driving in that city, and getting lost with no map was even worse.
posted by antifuse at 6:08 AM on September 27, 2011
Scariest squeegee dudes I ever encountered were in Naples. GOD I hated driving in that city, and getting lost with no map was even worse.
posted by antifuse at 6:08 AM on September 27, 2011
Scariest squeegee dudes I ever encountered were in Naples.
Florida? A friend who lived there informed me of the demographics...seems to be a high correlation of defenseless elderly drivers to large Cadillac windshields in need of non-consensual cleaning.
posted by obscurator at 6:22 AM on September 27, 2011
Florida? A friend who lived there informed me of the demographics...seems to be a high correlation of defenseless elderly drivers to large Cadillac windshields in need of non-consensual cleaning.
posted by obscurator at 6:22 AM on September 27, 2011
tumid: Try the corner of Coro and the ICB. I've seen them there a few times.
posted by Jilder at 6:31 AM on September 27, 2011
posted by Jilder at 6:31 AM on September 27, 2011
Florida? A friend who lived there informed me of the demographics...seems to be a high correlation of defenseless elderly drivers to large Cadillac windshields in need of non-consensual cleaning.
Haha no, Italy. Whole lotta scumbags in that city.
posted by antifuse at 6:48 AM on September 27, 2011
Haha no, Italy. Whole lotta scumbags in that city.
posted by antifuse at 6:48 AM on September 27, 2011
Would you stand at an intersection and let somebody run up and floss your teeth?
I wouldn't, but some people might let someone clean their ears.
posted by Jahaza at 7:02 AM on September 27, 2011
I wouldn't, but some people might let someone clean their ears.
posted by Jahaza at 7:02 AM on September 27, 2011
antifuse: "Florida? A friend who lived there informed me of the demographics...seems to be a high correlation of defenseless elderly drivers to large Cadillac windshields in need of non-consensual cleaning.
Haha no, Italy. Whole lotta scumbags in that city."
Been to Paris?
posted by Splunge at 7:50 AM on September 27, 2011
Haha no, Italy. Whole lotta scumbags in that city."
Been to Paris?
posted by Splunge at 7:50 AM on September 27, 2011
Those bags sound collectible
By whom? Anyone who'd be interested in them would be dead by now.
posted by Melismata at 8:00 AM on September 27, 2011
By whom? Anyone who'd be interested in them would be dead by now.
posted by Melismata at 8:00 AM on September 27, 2011
MetaFilter: Scariest squeegee dudes I ever encountered
posted by obscurator at 8:16 AM on September 27, 2011
posted by obscurator at 8:16 AM on September 27, 2011
I'm confused by all the anti-squeegee sentiment. It's the outside of your car, for gosh sake, not your teeth. I can see being worried that they might scratch your windshield if using newspaper (I was always dubious about an ex-bf's family's habit of using newspaper to clean their car windows), but otherwise? The outside of your car gets shat on by birds, suicided on by bugs of all varieties, gets dust and other road debris kicked up on it - it's designed to get dirty. And I can't vouch for all squeegeers, but all the ones that I've seen have used reasonable water - at least as clean and with at least as reasonable a soap:water ratio as anything you'd get at a gas station. Exactly what harm are you all purporting will come to your car from this practice (minus the newspaper scratching window thing)?
Just be polite, folks. Shake your head no as the squeegeers approach if you don't want your window washed or don't want to give money, or if your window is rolled down, politely say "no thank you." If they continue to wash your window despite that, the fact that they have wasted their effort for no money is not your problem: merely continue to be polite. It's not difficult.
And don't lick the outside of your car. Regardless of whether you window has been washed by squeegeers.
posted by eviemath at 8:32 AM on September 27, 2011
Just be polite, folks. Shake your head no as the squeegeers approach if you don't want your window washed or don't want to give money, or if your window is rolled down, politely say "no thank you." If they continue to wash your window despite that, the fact that they have wasted their effort for no money is not your problem: merely continue to be polite. It's not difficult.
And don't lick the outside of your car. Regardless of whether you window has been washed by squeegeers.
posted by eviemath at 8:32 AM on September 27, 2011
Been to Paris?
Yup, and I felt way, way, WAY safer walking around Paris at night than I did in Naples.
posted by antifuse at 9:38 AM on September 27, 2011
Yup, and I felt way, way, WAY safer walking around Paris at night than I did in Naples.
posted by antifuse at 9:38 AM on September 27, 2011
Certainly. Halifax has had a number of squeegee kids over the years. They have never approached my car "in an aggressive manner". And even so: they come with aggressive intentions... to clean my windows? In broad daylight? Unlike the Viper in that old joke ("I've come to vipe your vindows!"), the context of the interaction has always seemed pretty clear to me - unlike, say, if someone without any discernible implements of cleaning were to approach my car quickly and start pounding on my windows (something no squeegeer has ever done in my experience).
Can you give me more specific details of what you mean by "an aggressive manner"? You mention "at all hours": certainly having a squeegeer approach your car in the middle of the night in a low-traffic area would be a different context than the exact same activity in daylight or at night but in a high-traffic area with lots of other people around. But it sounds like you have found your interactions with squeegeers to be uncomfortable in situations other than nighttime, low-traffic area?
I don't want to impute motives to folks I don't know on here, but most people I know do not, in fact, find squeegeers "unnerving and unwelcome". Maybe mildly annoying, tops, but most people I know at least have a little bit of empathy for the economic situation of the sqeegeers, though they may tend to not give money to them. And of the people I know who do get upset by squeegeers, there's a strong classist component to their reaction (as in, they would find a homeless person merely sitting or lying on the sidewalk, not asking for anything or interacting in any way with passers-by, "aggressive" - how dare the homeless person affront them by openly existing!). So perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I find it difficult to understand where a blanket anti-squeeger sentiment (as opposed to particular cases) could come from outside of the classist asshole context. I phrased it more generally initially because I operate under the assumption that folks on metafilter are not, in general, classist assholes.
posted by eviemath at 9:55 AM on September 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Can you give me more specific details of what you mean by "an aggressive manner"? You mention "at all hours": certainly having a squeegeer approach your car in the middle of the night in a low-traffic area would be a different context than the exact same activity in daylight or at night but in a high-traffic area with lots of other people around. But it sounds like you have found your interactions with squeegeers to be uncomfortable in situations other than nighttime, low-traffic area?
I don't want to impute motives to folks I don't know on here, but most people I know do not, in fact, find squeegeers "unnerving and unwelcome". Maybe mildly annoying, tops, but most people I know at least have a little bit of empathy for the economic situation of the sqeegeers, though they may tend to not give money to them. And of the people I know who do get upset by squeegeers, there's a strong classist component to their reaction (as in, they would find a homeless person merely sitting or lying on the sidewalk, not asking for anything or interacting in any way with passers-by, "aggressive" - how dare the homeless person affront them by openly existing!). So perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I find it difficult to understand where a blanket anti-squeeger sentiment (as opposed to particular cases) could come from outside of the classist asshole context. I phrased it more generally initially because I operate under the assumption that folks on metafilter are not, in general, classist assholes.
posted by eviemath at 9:55 AM on September 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sorry if not wanting some large aggressive man climbing on the hood of my car screaming "GIVE ME MY MONEY YOU FUCKING BITCH" at 5am in the morning somehow makes me a classist asshole.
posted by elizardbits at 10:00 AM on September 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by elizardbits at 10:00 AM on September 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
See, now there's a specific example that does, indeed, sound aggressive. Thank you. Is that how all sqeegeers have behaved in your experience?
posted by eviemath at 10:06 AM on September 27, 2011
posted by eviemath at 10:06 AM on September 27, 2011
Or replace "all" with "most" - I'm asking about trends here. I've interacted with people panhandling on sidewalks in many different cities, but have only interacted with squeegeers in one city, so it's possible I suppose that there are different cultures of squeegeeing in different cities?
posted by eviemath at 10:11 AM on September 27, 2011
posted by eviemath at 10:11 AM on September 27, 2011
Or replace "all" with "most" - I'm asking about trends here.
I would guess that even if you replaced "most" with "once" a lot of folks would still have an aversion to squeegee men in general.
posted by snofoam at 10:38 AM on September 27, 2011
I would guess that even if you replaced "most" with "once" a lot of folks would still have an aversion to squeegee men in general.
posted by snofoam at 10:38 AM on September 27, 2011
jb: Have they really been gone from Toronto for that long?
Maybe not - I saw a lot in the Harris years (late 90s), but since then I've also been out of Toronto for several years and also downtown less since coming back. (Also, I don't drive). But I did feel like they were much denser in the bad times of the late 90s, and I hadn't seen any personally in a long time, whereas I used to see them frequently.
Funny - I was much more sympathetic to them at the time - maybe because I was a teenager, and so were many of the squeegee-ers, and Harris's cuts were so back, but also I see the intimidation factor so much more now. The two men I saw left the windows they "cleaned" more smeared than they had been -- and were yelling at the car as it pulled away.
But I keep thinking: what economic activity can an unemployed and possibly homeless person do to keep body together? Squeegee-ing is something that is taken up by people that restaurants won't hire - especially in a climate like today when I know people with degrees who are having trouble getting a job, let alone someone who may not have any education, who may have mental health and/or drug issues and certainly won't have the wherewithall to present themselves in neat and respectable clothing (lots of non-homeless poor people have that problem). Would we rather that people beg? Or sell papers that no one really wants to buy but might do out of charity? The Big Issue seller who staked out our local grocery store in the UK could be just as agressive as any squeegee-er.
If we want to end squeegee-ing, we need to find another way for these people to make a living.
posted by jb at 10:44 AM on September 27, 2011
Maybe not - I saw a lot in the Harris years (late 90s), but since then I've also been out of Toronto for several years and also downtown less since coming back. (Also, I don't drive). But I did feel like they were much denser in the bad times of the late 90s, and I hadn't seen any personally in a long time, whereas I used to see them frequently.
Funny - I was much more sympathetic to them at the time - maybe because I was a teenager, and so were many of the squeegee-ers, and Harris's cuts were so back, but also I see the intimidation factor so much more now. The two men I saw left the windows they "cleaned" more smeared than they had been -- and were yelling at the car as it pulled away.
But I keep thinking: what economic activity can an unemployed and possibly homeless person do to keep body together? Squeegee-ing is something that is taken up by people that restaurants won't hire - especially in a climate like today when I know people with degrees who are having trouble getting a job, let alone someone who may not have any education, who may have mental health and/or drug issues and certainly won't have the wherewithall to present themselves in neat and respectable clothing (lots of non-homeless poor people have that problem). Would we rather that people beg? Or sell papers that no one really wants to buy but might do out of charity? The Big Issue seller who staked out our local grocery store in the UK could be just as agressive as any squeegee-er.
If we want to end squeegee-ing, we need to find another way for these people to make a living.
posted by jb at 10:44 AM on September 27, 2011
Yeah, eviemath, the reason why they cracked down on the NYC squeegeers is that they weren't just politely offering to do your window in hopes of your change. They were reaching over to do the windows and then getting very threatening when you wouldn't give them any money. I wouldn't mind it either if they just passively did their work (the same way the folks in Boston just politely walk by the cars with their hands out and a sign), but these guys would scream obscenities and bang on your window and threaten you. At five in the morning, with no one else around. No thanks. I don't know how it is in other cities.
posted by Melismata at 11:03 AM on September 27, 2011
posted by Melismata at 11:03 AM on September 27, 2011
If we want to end squeegee-ing, we need to find another way for these people to make a living.
Any ideas on how this would happen? Jobs for (almost always) mentally ill, substance-addicted folks are pretty limited, especially without forced institutionalization and/or halfway houses. (And with the un-forced options being cut back every day.)
posted by Melismata at 11:07 AM on September 27, 2011
Any ideas on how this would happen? Jobs for (almost always) mentally ill, substance-addicted folks are pretty limited, especially without forced institutionalization and/or halfway houses. (And with the un-forced options being cut back every day.)
posted by Melismata at 11:07 AM on September 27, 2011
I would guess that even if you replaced "most" with "once" a lot of folks would still have an aversion to squeegee men in general.
Of the people I actually know in real life who have an aversion to squeegeers (and I've seen squeegee women too), this is certainly true. But the distinction is important, because it's the difference between there being a pattern or culture of aggressiveness among sqeegeers in a particular city or area(*), or just a classist observer. Like this xkcd illustrates a sexist observer.
(* Like I said above, I do not generally assume that mefites are classist assholes - the quality of discussions here are frequently pretty thoughtful - so this may be the case - we have some concurrence for NYC, it seems. Although my experiences do make me wary of what people consider aggressive or threatening in this particular context. Halifax passed what was basically an anti-squeegeeing law a couple years ago because of people complaining about "aggressive" squeegeers. Since there were already effective laws against impeding car traffic on roads or pedestrian traffic on sidewalks, threatening or assaulting people, and property damage to cars, and given that the proponents of this law couldn't come up with more than one or two specific examples of supposedly aggressive squeegeers (and those examples could have been effectively dealt with using laws already on the books), this was a rather transparent effort to get rid of all squeegeers - and indeed that was how the law was applied.)
posted by eviemath at 11:09 AM on September 27, 2011
Of the people I actually know in real life who have an aversion to squeegeers (and I've seen squeegee women too), this is certainly true. But the distinction is important, because it's the difference between there being a pattern or culture of aggressiveness among sqeegeers in a particular city or area(*), or just a classist observer. Like this xkcd illustrates a sexist observer.
(* Like I said above, I do not generally assume that mefites are classist assholes - the quality of discussions here are frequently pretty thoughtful - so this may be the case - we have some concurrence for NYC, it seems. Although my experiences do make me wary of what people consider aggressive or threatening in this particular context. Halifax passed what was basically an anti-squeegeeing law a couple years ago because of people complaining about "aggressive" squeegeers. Since there were already effective laws against impeding car traffic on roads or pedestrian traffic on sidewalks, threatening or assaulting people, and property damage to cars, and given that the proponents of this law couldn't come up with more than one or two specific examples of supposedly aggressive squeegeers (and those examples could have been effectively dealt with using laws already on the books), this was a rather transparent effort to get rid of all squeegeers - and indeed that was how the law was applied.)
posted by eviemath at 11:09 AM on September 27, 2011
Any ideas on how this would happen? Jobs for (almost always) mentally ill, substance-addicted folks are pretty limited, especially without forced institutionalization and/or halfway houses. (And with the un-forced options being cut back every day.)
posted by Melismata at 2:07 PM on September 27 [+] [!]
No, I have no idea what else they could do for money - other than society realising that there will always be people who can't work and who need to be supported. This is why I'm a bit torn about squeegee-ing - and pan-handling and other similar things.
There was a lady in a town where I used to live who sold flowers. Someone claimed that she stole them from the local university, but this was a lie; she bought them by the dozen from a local shop and then sold them for a dollar each. I know that a lot of people - including me - bought them not because they wanted flowers, but out of sympathy. I got to know her a bit, and I realised that she would never really be able to cope with a regular job. But at the same time, she was offering a service rather than just begging.
posted by jb at 12:53 PM on September 27, 2011
posted by Melismata at 2:07 PM on September 27 [+] [!]
No, I have no idea what else they could do for money - other than society realising that there will always be people who can't work and who need to be supported. This is why I'm a bit torn about squeegee-ing - and pan-handling and other similar things.
There was a lady in a town where I used to live who sold flowers. Someone claimed that she stole them from the local university, but this was a lie; she bought them by the dozen from a local shop and then sold them for a dollar each. I know that a lot of people - including me - bought them not because they wanted flowers, but out of sympathy. I got to know her a bit, and I realised that she would never really be able to cope with a regular job. But at the same time, she was offering a service rather than just begging.
posted by jb at 12:53 PM on September 27, 2011
Ok, but not wanting a guy aggressively trying to wash your windshield unsolicited while you wait at a stop light doesn't even remotely qualify as "classist asshole".
Not necessarily, true.
But: being unnecessarily rude about it - as some people I've known are - perhaps shows a lack of compassion for people less fortunate than themselves, and may in some cases stem from classist attitudes.
But: blurring the line between behavior that is actually dangerous, threatening, physically harmful, etc. (bad no matter who perpetrates it, but also criminalized under other laws) and behavior that is merely annoying or inconveniencing or makes one feel bad about one's position in the economic hierarchy, and stereotyping all squeegeers as being aggressive and threatening based on only a very small number of actual instances - as a group of people in Halifax did to get an anti-squeegeeing law passed, as I mentioned in previous comment - is classist.
posted by eviemath at 1:21 PM on September 27, 2011
Not necessarily, true.
But: being unnecessarily rude about it - as some people I've known are - perhaps shows a lack of compassion for people less fortunate than themselves, and may in some cases stem from classist attitudes.
But: blurring the line between behavior that is actually dangerous, threatening, physically harmful, etc. (bad no matter who perpetrates it, but also criminalized under other laws) and behavior that is merely annoying or inconveniencing or makes one feel bad about one's position in the economic hierarchy, and stereotyping all squeegeers as being aggressive and threatening based on only a very small number of actual instances - as a group of people in Halifax did to get an anti-squeegeeing law passed, as I mentioned in previous comment - is classist.
posted by eviemath at 1:21 PM on September 27, 2011
Perhaps we are working with different understandings of the connotations of "aggressive", Horselover Phattie?
posted by eviemath at 1:24 PM on September 27, 2011
posted by eviemath at 1:24 PM on September 27, 2011
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I am going to go outside and toss some tied together sneakers over a lightpost right now.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:31 PM on September 26, 2011 [5 favorites]