I don't believe true feminism means we have to have a libertarian/individualistic conception of people as the free owners of their own bodies who just "do what they want to."—mbrock
'He's never seen it,' a friend recounted to me about his good-looking, sexually active collegiate son. What, I asked? 'Snatch,' he replied.
This is uncomfortable for bearded old me, but I've never seen it as evidence of women forcing me to do anything. So, as *wrong* as shaving and waxing seems to me, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy with the argument that it's bad that men look for this kind of grooming in women.—seanyboy
I know this is your subjective opinion, but my desire to be angered at what is essentially a body based "Your favourite band sucks" is so very, very, very strong.—seanyboy
You don't believe that "true feminism" means that women are the free owners of their own bodies who do what they want to? What kind of crazy conception of feminism do you subscribe to??
— Ivan Fyodorovich
This trend is another manifestation of consumerist sexist cosmetic beauty culture; its offensiveness is entirely insofar as this is about women altering their bodies to be sexually appealing to men (or the second-order effect of "feeling good about" herself" because she feels attractive) at the systematic, institutionalized urging of mass media and the consumer beauty industry. [...]
Male preferences, as institutionalized by industry and mass-media, which take those choices from her is sexism in one of its most powerful forms—and it doesn't matter whether the preference is for the removal of pubic hair or if it's that the "natural look" is more attractive.
So, as *wrong* as shaving and waxing seems to me, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy with the argument that it's bad that men look for this kind of grooming in women. I wouldn't like to be involved with someone who did shave, and it seems wrong for me to judge someone who idealises those that do.
"When her underwear came off, I immediately noticed that the waxing trend had completely passed her by.
Obviously, that was a big turnoff, and I quickly lost interest."
Obviously? Like, I can understand preferring no hair, but I can't even begin to understand being turned off by its presence."
How else can you reach the treasure made by the gods?!
I am still not understanding how an aesthetic desire/recommendation that women trim a certain spot of hair is oppressive patriarchy when your average man to appear in public (not just private) is going to trim/remove facial/neck hair, nose hair, maybe ear hair, unibrow hair, etc.—crayz
Realistically I always wonder whether preferred pube grooming is as much of a dealbreaker as some men say it is...—immlass
When women are told "This is how your vagina should look," or "This is what a pretty vagina is like," what is being reinforced is that a woman's vagina is not her own private part, but instead something that is appropriate for others to judge. I'm not cool with that.—meese
...though it might be marginally more fair to ask me to do so if he was willing to do the same to his tender vittles.—emjaybee
More directly, we're making comments in a thread about a paper where a guy is judging how women groom their bodies by what messages this gives men.—meese
When a guy comes into a thread on this topic to point out their preferences, I'm left asking, "...So?" Why is a conversation about how women are meant to feel about their bodies the right place for men to point out their sexual preferences?—meese
I have been studying student erotics for several years now and one thing is clear: young women who don’t love and don’t feel loved tend not to orgasm when they have sex. Hairlessness, which does not contribute to female pleasure, is entwined with the rise of the pornographic, with love’s erosion as a believable state of grace, with women’s uncomfortable capitulation to sex as a portal to fuller affection.
It's "women should do Y or they are gross."
My pubes are not public property and it annoys me that random dudes on the internet think it's perfectly acceptable to tell me how I should groom my private parts to be sexually appealing to them like I should give a shit about what they want.—immlass
It's not "I like X, so it makes me really happy when my partner does that for me." It's "women should do Y or they are gross."—Forktine
But also "women should do X or they are incapable of true intimacy, love and/or orgasm."—craichead
The hairy ones are closer to nature, to animality.
American women are, in fact, striking a pornographic pose, one that first appeared in the hard-core porn films that were increasingly shaping the sexual imagination of legions of young men. The eye of the hard-core porn camera hovers over female body parts; it’s a visual excess of physical acts with a minimum of sentiment. It is not a love story. Porn displays pubeless bodies to emphasize the organs—the female genital slit (and the erect male shaft)—and thereby defines the standard of erotic desirability. As nether hair disappeared on screen guys increasingly wanted sex with girls who looked like the porn stars they’d fantasized about. They asked and women emulated.
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