Nokia World kicked off in London today

October 26, 2011 5:12 PM

"We comb our hair each morning. We pick you up from school. We would always send you a birthday card. But it’s not enough.” Nokia's President and CEO Stephen Elop opened Nokia World with this frank assessment of his company - although he has been known for franker assessments in the past. Despite having created the most popular operating systems in the world for dumbphones (S40) and smartphones (S60), the Finnish giant has been a cause for concern in recent years, withdrawing from the lucrative US smartphone market and struggling to profit from sales of inexpensive phones to the developing world, while reviewers lamented the wasted opportunities in the form factor and hardware quality of phones like the Tron-tastic N8.

The last 13 months have seen radical change at Nokia, beginning with the appointment of its first foreign CEO, Microsoft's Stephen Elop. While the dust was still settling, it was announced that Nokia's planned open-source smartphone OS, Meego, would see only one phone, the N9, before the high-end range moved over to Microsoft's Windows Phone.

At Nokia World today, the first two Nokia Windows phones were unveiled: the Lumia 800, a design cousin of the N9, and the Lumia 710, a lower-cost alternative with exchangeable backplates. Also launched was the "Asha" range of S40 phones, at price points higher than the average selling price of Nokia dumbphones in the last reported quarter - a price which saw an increase in units sold but a significant drop in profits and margin. Blanca Juti, Nokia's VP, Mobile Phones, outlined Nokia's goal to take a significant chunk of the next billion mobile users.

The Windows Phones will be released across Europe and Asia in 2011 and early 2012, but plans for the US remain uncertain. Nokia's North America VP, Chris Weber - another Microsoft transplant - has talked about customized versions for the American market, with Elop promising a "portfolio" of Nokia phones for the US in 2012.

Along with the here and now, Nokia World also offered the Future Lounge, where prototypes and concepts - like this flexible phone - were on display.

Elop described the Lumia range as the first "real" Windows Phone - presumably a reference to the presence of Windows 7.5 ("Mango") on hardware designed for it. However, hopes of an iconic high-end phone to rival the iPhone 4S and Galaxy Nexus may be frustrated by the 800's single-core processor, single camera and lack of NFC. One thing is certain - its injection-molded polycarbonate shell, filed-down AMOLED screen and cyan and magenta color options make it immediately distinctive. Eight months on from Elop's notorious memo, analysts are debating whether this will be enough to begin the dousing of Nokia's "burning platform".

posted by running order squabble fest (46 comments total)

And the kids are all laughing in their sleeves as the story goes 'round that "Lumia" is slang for "prostitute" for some Spanish speakers.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:36 PM on October 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

"Don't call it a comeback / I've been here for years." And with a saucy phone like that, things are definitely looking up...
posted by AnnSatterfield at 5:42 PM on October 26, 2011

As a ridiculously happy Maemo user (who will be getting an N9 eventually.. hopefully... maybe..), I'm quite okay with their Microsoft offerings failing.
posted by leviathan3k at 5:43 PM on October 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

As a ridiculously unhappy Maemo user, I'm quite unokay with the state of Linux portable devices.
posted by DU at 6:03 PM on October 26, 2011 [2 favorites]

It reminds me of back in the day when countries would take over other countries by getting their king's son to marry the princess of the other country. Microsoft basically conquered Nokia without spending a cent.

I always liked Nokia phones, but I don't have any interest in Windows Phone 7 or whatever they're calling their mobile OS.

Nokia still has it's Meego phones on sale, they just put out an N9 which is actually the same as one of their windows phones.
posted by delmoi at 6:08 PM on October 26, 2011

Yeah, it looks like the N9 and the windows phone are actually the same thing, just with a different OS. Ought to try putting android on it as well. I bet the android phone would outsell the other two combined.
posted by delmoi at 6:12 PM on October 26, 2011

Microsoft basically conquered Nokia without spending a cent.

Reportedly it was more than 100 billion cents ($1 billion).
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 6:17 PM on October 26, 2011

Nokia still has it's Meego phones on sale, they just put out an N9 which is actually the same as one of their windows phones.


Just to correct this up - the N9 is currently planned to be the first and only Nokia Meego phone released - when Stephen Elop made the announcement about Windows Phone, he positioned Meego as a disruption, and since then the line has mutated to become that the N9 was an exercise in design and software integration the lessons of which are folding into the Windows phones.

The Lumia 800 and the N9 look similar, but they aren't the same phone. Most obviously, the N9 has no buttons on its face. That also means it has a larger screen, and space for a front-facing camera. The N9 has a dual-core processor, and 1GB of RAM rather than 512MB. Those are the big differences - basically the N9 has higher-end components, hence the higher price.
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:23 PM on October 26, 2011 [3 favorites]

Yeah, I wish Maemo had lived, I liked it's more desktop-like feel and of course it was open source. The thing that impressed me was that even after Nokia pretty much bailed on Maemo the forum neckbeards released a community update for it a few years ago.

Although... I have to admit, I find Windows phone UI pretty damn sexy.
posted by fuq at 6:31 PM on October 26, 2011

I've been reasonably happy with my N900 because it integrates all IM protocols with SMS and integrates SIP and Skype with phone calls, which frankly neither iOS nor Android accomplish to this day. Nokia's Ovi suite sucks ass though. Maps? lol

There is no question that Nokia should have moved towards Android, either simply supporting Android apps, or perhaps going Android for the entire interface, while using Maemo's better integrated addressbook, SMS/IM, and phone/VoIP software.

Ain't no way I'll ever buy a Windows phone though. I'll just buy an Android and install all the linux stuff I want underneath. Also, strategic partnerships with Microsoft often signal a company's demise.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:46 PM on October 26, 2011 [3 favorites]

The designer of the N9 (and by extension Lumia?) Peter Skillman gave an interview to Engadget about the design of the phone.
posted by euphorb at 6:46 PM on October 26, 2011 [5 favorites]

I don't get people who hate on WP7. It's gorgeous and, more importantly, distinct. WebOS, Android, and iOS all look and feel similar, but WP7 is it's own unique thing. If Microsoft can find a way to crack the code I think there's room in the market for a third major smartphone OS (and obviously that's not gonna be WebOS, as much as I love it).
posted by JimBennett at 7:00 PM on October 26, 2011 [5 favorites]

Microsoft made the best phone OS ever. Windows Phone 7 was a huge jump backwards from the jaw-dropping capabilities of Windows Mobile. I'm still in awe at just how much crippled (or in the case of Meego, too user unfriendly) phone OSes are nowadays. Wake me up when someone makes a phone on par with Windows Mobile. I have a feeling I'll be sleeping a long, long time.
posted by Yowser at 7:11 PM on October 26, 2011

Mango is a pretty solid / usable phone OS. There's some catching up to be done, but I'd be wary of announcing its death just yet.

(posted from my winphone)
posted by seanyboy at 7:41 PM on October 26, 2011

Windows 7.5 looks pretty cool but I'm not really interested in all the heavy emphasis on integrating social media into every part of it.
posted by octothorpe at 7:48 PM on October 26, 2011

Betting the company on Windows Mobile is a big gamble. It'd be pretty short sighted of Nokia not to start releasing some Android based phones. Microsoft is going to keep pouring money into their phone OS, but there's no guarantee it will catch on. Android is here to stay.
posted by Loudmax at 7:58 PM on October 26, 2011

As a user of Fleeble, I don't even know which smartphone operating system names are real any more.
posted by davejay at 7:59 PM on October 26, 2011 [5 favorites]

Nice interview with Peter Skillman, euphorb - I liked the thing about fonts. Android's new roboto font has got me thinking about fonts in phone design quite a bit... there's a comparison of Nokia Pure and Nokia Sans here.

(Incidentally, Skillman is Head of UX across Nokia's various devices, so would have had input into the N9 and L800. From memory, and I could be wrong, the N9's physical design would have been driven by the Head of Design for Nseries phones, Alex Meyer - but it's interesting that the design cues of the N9 are being codified as "Nokia Fabulum"(?). I wouldn't be surprised if the N10 looked very similar, but came out in with N9-level specs or above at a point when Windows Phone could get the benefit).
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:16 PM on October 26, 2011

(_Axel_ Meyer, rather. Stupid memory,)
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:17 PM on October 26, 2011

I was an N900 user until a month ago. Currently I have a Droid Bionic and a WP7. Let me assure anyone who thinks that the Windows Phone is any good that IT IS CRAP. No mincing words. Terrible phone. It "ran out of battery" while it was plugged in and I was on a conference call. That is shitty engineering no matter how you slice it. Want to upgrade? Plug it in and interface with Zune. Like Apps? Windows has repackaged crap from years ago that they will gladly sell you. The "useful" stuff? That has a look and feel of 1996. Try to do more than two things at the same time on wp7 and you will soon know that you can't. It is a device that was rushed to market. Honestly, RIM is dead and Windows wants a taste of the 8 percent of the market that is not iOS or Android. Read that again, 8% of the market. Please don't jump into the wp7 market.

Now, the Bionic is pretty nice. Fast, pretty intuitive version of Android. An upgrade to Ice Cream Sandwich coming within 6 weeks. Lots to like but, really, the thing I like best is being on 4G LTE. Verizon 4G is crazy fast. The Bionic though, still doesn't have what the n900 has/had: freedom to do whatever you wanted or could figure out. Tiling the open applications seems normal to me now. Seeing all of the VOIP integrated into the phone. Seeing the location based and social elements baked into the OS seems like everyone should be doing this.

I read earlier that the old Nokia designed phones for engineers...not the public. I think that is true. I could fire up my N95 tonight and stream content to my DVR. Not shabby for a 5 year old phone.

Anyway, sad to see Nokia go this route. Thanks for posting this.
posted by zerobyproxy at 8:36 PM on October 26, 2011

Betting the company on Windows Mobile is a big gamble. It'd be pretty short sighted of Nokia not to start releasing some Android based phones. Microsoft is going to keep pouring money into their phone OS, but there's no guarantee it will catch on. Android is here to stay.--Loudmax

Really? HTC pays $5 to $10 to Microsoft for every Android phone sold. Now that Google is buying Motorola, a phone manufacturer, and other manufacturers have to face lawsuits from Apple and Microsoft alone, they are starting to look at alternatives.

Because of drooping sales, Nokia had to change horses fast. The problem is what happens to your company's sales when you are developing new phones? How do you make money? With Microsoft, they had a solution: a large payoff to see them through the dry period.

It was really an ideal solution for both companies. Android may not be here to stay (at least outside of Google), but Microsoft will.
posted by eye of newt at 8:39 PM on October 26, 2011

zerobyproxy, you say the Microsoft phone is crap.

There is no Microsoft phone! There is only the Microsoft operating system. Microsoft doesn't make phones. Some company made one that you think is crap. Now Nokia makes them too. (You seem to like Nokia's engineers).

I'm starting to sound like a Microsoft shill. I have an Android phone and love it and prefer its open marketplace to Apple's and Microsoft's tightly controlled closed environment.

But I see what's happening, and, unfortunately, I think Microsoft is going to do well.
posted by eye of newt at 8:45 PM on October 26, 2011

So, yes. There is no Windows Phone. It is a Samsung Focus. I can blame the hardware but I keep coming back to the OS. Who tested these phones? The hardware is not well thought. The power button is in a position where you will press it while taking a photo. The touchscreen and buttons stay active when content (Netflix) is playing and you navigate away from where you want to be often. These are hardware/software integration problems. Samsung is to blame and Microsoft is to blame. Shame on both of them for pushing this product to market.

What I think is that Microsoft finally understood that it had to get to market. They know that what they are putting out there is not competitive with the other mobile platforms out there. However, the belief is that the market will only actively support 3 mobile OS. RIM and Microsoft are laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate to believing this and are now fighting for the last position. Microsoft will stumble into it. RIM cannot find its ass with both hands (they don't have a native email client for their tablet?).

I think that Microsoft could do well, but, they need people to develop good, fresh apps for them. No one will invest a bunch of money to capture, perhaps, 8 percent of the market. Windows Mobile Phone does not have scale. It is going to take them years to catch up and when they do, it will not be because of innovation, it will be because of brute force.
posted by zerobyproxy at 8:59 PM on October 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Google buying Motorola is all about patents and keeping trolls at bay. Obviously, Win Mobile will be around because Microsoft will keep pouring money into it, but their desktop office monopoly doesn't buy them much in this market. They'll be a player but an Android spin off is likelier than Windows to approach the volume of iOS or Android.
posted by Loudmax at 9:01 PM on October 26, 2011

Wait, someone actually liked the old windows mobile? I've had 6.1 and 6.5 devices and they were absolute garbage. Thank god Apple came along and revealed just how awful those older smartphone platforms really were.
posted by The Lamplighter at 10:08 PM on October 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Every mobile OS its user/every user his OS (to paraphrase Ranganathan). But memories of using Win Moblie bring no warm feelings to me either.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 10:15 PM on October 26, 2011

The N9 is a beautiful phone to hold and operate. Meego is feature-rich, and given my iPhone usage, covers most of my mobile usage rather well (except perhaps, taking time-lapse videos) The main hitch is that it won't be so in the next six months, when there'll be newer must-have apps (eg: "Angry Birds"; I don't play it myself, but just as an example)

I prefer calling Lumia 800 by its Nokia codename, Searay, which I think sounds better. I have no doubt in my mind that it's equally sexy; as far as I'm concerned, not having a dual-core processor is okay, neither Meego nor WP7 support them anyway. The main drawback is not having a front-facing camera or a gyroscope; that could be problematic, but neither are show-stoppers.

I also think this is just a first salvo in bigger round of shelling; water-cooler talk with colleagues from, well, concerned companies associated with this partnership, is that the main crux of the deal - MS opening up its OS to native calls from apps - hasn't even come out as yet, and won't come out till WP7's next version, Tango. I believe this should be released to Nokia by the end of the year, and perhaps to the overall market by Feb or March next year; that's when the partnership will really shine.

Meanwhile, Nokia and MS get the conversation going with a phone that's 90% there, and with Nokia-branded apps that provide enough of a differentiation, while being easy to implement.

Which is to say, (having known about Searay's specs for more than a month now, and having held an N9 before) the biggest news for me from yesterday was that native-looking Nokia Drive app apparently has an inner lining made of HTML 5; that's interesting not just in terms of what it means to pull off a WP7 app, but that Nokia is keeping its feature-set in an easily transplant-able state, and indeed, that even Nokia believes that HTML 5 is that transplant-able state. Of course, it could be BBC's usual "over-reporting" of science and technology matters, but still. :)

The other phones announced were also interesting; in fact, I'm quite tempted to get a Lumia 710 as a dev phone if it's cheap enough (< S$300). The QWERTY Asha seems to be a great device if you're on a prepaid and want to send quick emails etc; all of E71's goodness, but for very cheap prices.

Finally, was making this point on another forum, but you don’t really need to be Indian to appreciate the metaphor of Nokia showing light (Lumia) and hope (Asha) on Deepavali. :)
posted by the cydonian at 11:26 PM on October 26, 2011 [4 favorites]

you don’t really need to be Indian to appreciate the metaphor of Nokia showing light (Lumia) and hope (Asha) on Deepavali. :)

the cydonian, this is really interesting given recent International Telecommunication Union statistics that the largest growth in the number of mobile subscriptions has been in India and China. So Nokia seems to be very deliberately aiming its new phones at markets in the developing world.
posted by needled at 4:17 AM on October 27, 2011

needled: Absolutely - at the presentation Blanca Juti presented three "personas" - possibly based on real people, in China, Nairobi and Mexico. The Asha range is aimed at shoring up Nokia in the developing world, where Nokia phones are huge sellers but under pressure from low-cost competition.

What's interesting about the Asha range is that it's targeted at wealthier people within those economies. In Q3 the average selling price (ASP) of a Nokia "mobile phone" (by which they mean a not-smartphone) was 32 Euro, which meant that although they sold a lot of phones their margin dropped. The cheapest of the new Asha phones has an RRP of 60 Euro (about $80), going up to 115 Euro (again, from memory) for the one with a touchscreen/keymat combo, Foursquare integration and 3G (which was aimed at the Mexican "persona"). I'd say the Asha range is aimed at the middle class of the developing world...
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:44 AM on October 27, 2011

Oh yeah, growing up in India, Nokia was by far the best option for simple phones. I loved the heck out my first Nokia dumb phone. I remember it has having an utterly intuitive interface, lovely keys and I could text things nearly instantaneously on it. Despite my current iPhone, there are parts of me that miss that old dumb phone.
posted by peacheater at 7:32 AM on October 27, 2011 [1 favorite]

Nokia's Ovi suite sucks ass though. Maps? lol

What's wrong with Ovi Maps? I don't use any of the other stuff in the suite but Maps has been pretty good when I wanted turn by turn nav on my ancient E71. I haven't used Android's turn by turn so I guess I don't have anything to compare it to. The only problem is Maps is a bit of a resource hog, but again my phone is fucking ancient.

Speaking of, how is the N900 as a phone and platform? I'm looking to upgrade to something more current gen, but I haven't found anything I want. There's no good Androids with a physical keyboard on AT&T, WP7 is intriguing but I don't want a walled garden, I don't know how long Blackberry is going to survive (otherwise the new Torch looks pretty awesome), and all the Nokias I'd like are running old platforms (S^3, Maemo). If the N900 still has good community development support, I might go for it.
posted by kmz at 8:09 AM on October 27, 2011

The Asha range is aimed at shoring up Nokia in the developing world, where Nokia phones are huge sellers but under pressure from low-cost competition.

Interestingly, I clicked through to take a look at the Lumia 800 and my first thought at that look and those specs was it would be a hot item if it was priced between 40 to 50 USD (about 40ish euros or so) There's no link for the look of the Asha range (nice interpretation, The Cydonian btw re: Diwali)

What's interesting about the Asha range is that it's targeted at wealthier people within those economies. In Q3 the average selling price (ASP) of a Nokia "mobile phone" (by which they mean a not-smartphone) was 32 Euro, which meant that although they sold a lot of phones their margin dropped. The cheapest of the new Asha phones has an RRP of 60 Euro (about $80), going up to 115 Euro (again, from memory) for the one with a touchscreen/keymat combo, Foursquare integration and 3G (which was aimed at the Mexican "persona"). I'd say the Asha range is aimed at the middle class of the developing world...

Do you have a link to these personas btw?
posted by infini at 10:02 AM on October 27, 2011

Interestingly, I clicked through to take a look at the Lumia 800 and my first thought at that look and those specs was it would be a hot item if it was priced between 40 to 50 USD (about 40ish euros or so)

Bear in mind that European phones are priced SIM-free and unlocked - so, if you want to buy a Lumia 800 and use it with your current SIM card, sell your old phone, sell the LUMIA, switch carriers and so on, it's 420 euro (by comparison an iPhone 4S is going to cost about 629 euro in France). The price with a contract is likely to be much lower - I imagine it will start being given away with a 24-month contract offering about 300 minutes, 500 texts and 500MB data in Western European markets.

The personas - I have my notes from the event - I have to go + eat now, but if you're interested I can post or Memail them. They are the usual "Patrick is an entrepreneur - he needs a dual SIM phone to manage his work and his friends" kind of thing...
posted by running order squabble fest at 10:49 AM on October 27, 2011

Sorry I should have clarified, the Lumia etc would have been a hot item at that price range among the target audience the Asha is intended for.
posted by infini at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2011

Afaik, there aren't any N900s being sold anymore, kmz, but gsmarena finds various Android phones with qwerty keyboards, including five recent ones with dual cores. There are bluetooth keyboards in both flexible and phone form factors too.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:29 PM on October 27, 2011

Afaik--

Rumored Droid 4.
posted by zerobyproxy at 1:40 PM on October 27, 2011

All the good Androids with keyboards are on Verizon or Sprint or somebody not AT&T though.
posted by kmz at 2:32 PM on October 27, 2011

Not that I have any particular love for AT&T per se, but we're pretty locked in because that's what all our friends use.
posted by kmz at 2:33 PM on October 27, 2011

kmz, you might want to hold out for the Captivate Glide which is coming later this year to AT&T.
posted by euphorb at 8:42 AM on October 28, 2011

Samsung overtakes Apple as biggest smartphone seller, Nokia retains third place.
Very amusing given how viciously Apple has attacked Samsung in the courts.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:06 AM on October 28, 2011

Bear in mind that a lot of people held off buying iPhones because of the expected iPhone 5, though - Nokia screwed down on their prices to maintain share on phones, which Apple don't do.
posted by running order squabble fest at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2011

There aren't that many people who wait for Apple's updates to upgrade. Also, Android takes almost 50% share of worldwide smart phone market.

There might be another attempt at an N900-like phone because Canonical's Ubuntu Linux might be heading for smartphones, tablets, and smart TVs. I'd imagine anyone with experience making a Linux distribution would either embrace Myriad Alien Dalvik, or else roll their own Android compatibility layer.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:29 AM on October 31, 2011

There aren't that many people who wait for Apple's updates to upgrade

There aren't 10 million, certainly - there were about 4-5 million. Samsung would still have been #1 without the iPhone 4S (or more accurately the ghost of the iPhone 5) stepping on the hosepipe of iPhone 4 sales. Although strong holiday sales and competition for Samsung from the HTC Vivid and Motorola Droid RAZR mean Apple will probably return to the top spot in the holiday quarter - it'll be close, though, which is always fun.

Ubuntu on smartphones isn't slated to happen until Ubuntu 14. It's an interesting proposition, though, and you're right that Android compatibility would be a huge boost. It's a shame that the N9 didn't get Android app compatibility, although you can see why not... it would have been a political rather than a technical challenge, let's say...
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:59 AM on October 31, 2011

HTC takes top smartphone spot in U.S. according to Q3 data from Canalys
posted by jeffburdges at 5:01 PM on October 31, 2011

And, to get a bit back ontopic:

Nokia retained its lead in the Chinese smart phone market, though echoing a picture seen around the world, it lost significant ground. Its share declined from 75% in Q3 2010 to 28% in Q3 2011.

‘Nokia has several tough quarters still ahead of it, even in its traditionally strong markets in APAC, such as China,’ said Peng. ‘The recent announcement of its first two Windows Phone devices, however, gives cause for some optimism, and shows that Nokia can still produce innovative and well-designed products. While China is not on Nokia’s initial list of launch countries for its Lumia products, Canalys understands that the market is a key priority for the vendor and expects to see Nokia Windows Phone devices there in the first half of 2012.’

Canalys presumably expects this because Nokia announced it at Nokia World. I'd say that Nokia and HTC are potentially looking at a face-off across the midmarket in Europe and potentially China. One hopes the customer will be the winner.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:59 PM on October 31, 2011

Nokia Lumia 800 review
posted by Artw at 1:57 PM on November 3, 2011